Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 30 Jan 2014

Vol. 828 No. 3

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 15, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2014 [Votes 1 to 41], back from committee; No. 15a, motion re referral to select sub-committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2014; No. 1, European Parliament Elections (Amendment) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed) and Remaining Stages; and No. 24, Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 15 and 15a shall be decided without debate, and in case of No. 15, Votes 1 to 41, inclusive, shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2014 [Votes 1 to 41], back from committee, and No. 15a, motion re referral to select sub-committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2014, agreed to?

Deputy Billy Kelleher

It is not agreed. We talk about accountability and that Parliament should have a more important role in holding Government to account. The Revised Estimates, Votes 1 to 41, inclusive, are coming back from the various committees, where I acknowledge they were discussed. However, we are now required to have a collective vote on all the Estimates. In fairness, the Opposition agrees with some Estimates, but we do not agree with many others. We are not being given an opportunity to vote on the Estimates Department by Department. There are problems with the Estimates for health and for social welfare. There are other Estimates that are acceptable.

Deputy Barry Cowen

It is being railroaded through.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

How can the various committees discuss the Estimates only for them to be referred back to the House with just one vote to decide the full Government expenditure in every Department? That includes every cutback and hidden tax, and all the other various reductions in services. While I accept we can scrutinise them in committee, in plenary session we should be allowed to vote on each individual Department in order that we can have a clear view as to how we stand on the Government's Estimates.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I also object to this proceeding without debate. As Deputy Kelleher has acknowledged, the committees have individually scrutinised their respective Estimates. However, it is important that the Dáil as a full body should have space to consider each and every one of them. In many cases the Tánaiste's commitment to accountability could be drawn into question. Certainly this is one pretty spectacular example of a lack of accountability.

The Tánaiste

All of these Estimates were considered in the individual committees.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

They were discussed.

The Tánaiste

They get a much greater degree of scrutiny at the individual committees than they ever got when Estimates were debated on the floor of the House. They are now considered programme by programme, which involves looking at the various objectives of Departments and measuring the Estimates against those objectives. To my knowledge none of the committees has asked that a particular Estimate should not be approved by the House.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

We cannot do that.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

There is no mechanism to do that.

The Tánaiste

These have now come back from the committees.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am putting the question.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

On a point of information, Members cannot oppose Estimates in the committee.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

In some cases Members opposite did not even bother to turn up for the debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am in the middle of putting the question on the proposal.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I am trying to be helpful to the Tánaiste.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

They should turn up for the debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, would you mind? I am putting the question.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Would Deputies mind not having discussions in the middle of my trying to put the question? Thank you.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

They are abusing us.

An Ceann Comhairle

That applied to both sides, incidentally.

Question put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 63; Níl, 42.

Tá

• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Carey, Joe.
• Collins, Áine.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Conway, Ciara.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Creighton, Lucinda.
• Daly, Jim.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Doyle, Andrew.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Ferris, Anne.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Flanagan, Terence.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Hannigan, Dominic.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Harris, Simon.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keating, Derek.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lyons, John.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Nash, Gerald.
• Neville, Dan.
• Nolan, Derek.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Sullivan, Jan.
• Ring, Michael.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Walsh, Brian.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Adams, Gerry.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Browne, John.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Collins, Joan.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Stephen S.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Ferris, Martin.
• Flanagan, Luke 'Ming'.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Higgins, Joe.
• Keaveney, Colm.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kitt, Michael P.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Sullivan, Maureen.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Ross, Shane.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Troy, Robert.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I have just learnt of the passing of our colleague, John Carty from Mayo, who served with many of us in this House. I extend my sympathies and those of the Fianna Fáil Party to his wife Kathleen and his family.

There is an alcohol crisis among our young people. There are several Bills in the Government's programme regarding the sale of alcohol. When will they come forward, in view of the fact that senior clinicians throughout the country are saying that young people continually binge drink? The figures are quite alarming and the health implications are even more alarming. When will those Bills come to the House? The legislation also covers minimum pricing units for alcohol.

The Tánaiste

As Deputy Kelleher knows, issues around alcohol and its misuse, and associated serious health and social problems, have been with us for a very long time. This Government has determined to deal with it. There are two Bills in preparation, one of which is being prepared by the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy White, the other by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Deputy Shatter.

Both are being worked on actively. I will inform Deputy Kelleher when there is a likely date of publication.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

In respect of the health (amendment) (No. 2) Bill, is this the legislation the Tánaiste envisages will deal with the health service provisions for the survivors of the Magdalen Laundries, including those survivors who live outside the State. There has been toing and froing between the Departments of Health and Justice and Equality on this issue and we are no clearer as to how that will be resolved.

As the Tánaiste knows, Mount Carmel Hospital in south Dublin is due to close. Are there any plans for this private facility to become a public hospital and is legislation required?

An Ceann Comhairle

A Topical Issue matter has been agreed on that subject. It is not a matter for the Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

There is a health (provision of general practitioner services) Bill which is to be published this session and a health (amendment) Bill which is to be published this year. I am not sure which piece of legislation addresses the issue raised by Deputy McDonald. I will check and ask the Minister for Health to let her know.