Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 2 Dec 2014

Vol. 860 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Broadcasting Sector Regulation

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

I thank the Acting Chairman and I thank the Minister for taking this matter. I believe we have a problem with the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and how it interprets its own code of fairness, objectivity and impartiality in news and current affairs. I refer, in particular, to recent rulings by the BAI under this code that some people saw as not fair and objective but daft and depressing. These rulings led the National Union of Journalists to say the authority is acting in a manner harmful to the public interest, and this is a serious charge to level.

Two complaints were made recently regarding radio shows discussing marriage equality issues and in my view they were spurious complaints. The complaints were upheld on the requirement to present a balanced view, but the shows in question were not current affairs programmes discussing a matter relating to a referendum campaign that is under way. In those circumstances there is a duty to be objective and include all sides of a debate. These shows were not debates. One was an RTE programme in January 2014 and it was a human interest piece on civil partnerships with people telling their personal stories. The other was a Newstalk programme in June 2014 on the Dublin gay pride parade with people discussing and celebrating rights, some of which they do not currently have.

For too long such people have been outcasts in Irish society and the State and, thankfully, we are moving to correct this next year. The programmes in question were not discussing matters in the context of a referendum campaign and they were not conducting debates. A referendum campaign is not yet under way. These were popular and important radio shows that were giving voice to people who have a different point of view from other people. I hope in time that point of view will be regarded as normal.

The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland objected on the basis that one could not allow a person to speak on radio about his or her aspirations to marry without having another person, a guest or presenter to challenge those aspirations, hopes, dreams and fears. I do not think this is right. Not only does it set a worrying precedent for free speech in the media in Ireland but it lacks common sense.

Senator Zappone challenged the authority of the BAI, apparently correctly, as the Government has failed to make appointments to the authority and, as a result, it is having difficulties obtaining a quorum at meetings. The Senator succinctly asked who calls the shots and makes the rulings at the BAI. Where is the legitimacy in these rulings if there are governance issues at the authority? The Irish Council for Civil Liberties has strongly criticised the BAI and has said it has used the complaints to chill public discussion on equality. This is a very serious thing to say.

A referendum on marriage equality is approaching.

It is coming, and I am looking forward to voting "Yes" in that referendum. We should ask ourselves whether the authority is fit to make rulings on future complaints that may arise between now and the beginning of that referendum campaign or once the referendum is under way.

We need to move quickly to address the governance issues in the authority, if they exist, and how the authority is interpreting the rulings under its code. If the code was not written to chill public debate or prevent people from expressing a point of view in the normal way on something they are passionate about, without having to bring someone in to put them down, then perhaps the code needs to be amended. Will the Minister offer a view on these issues?

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Alex White)

I thank Deputy Eoghan Murphy for raising this issue. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland is an independent statutory body which has as one of its functions under section 26 the Broadcasting Act 2009 the preparation of broadcasting codes or rules. Accordingly, I, as Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, have no function in this matter and my Department has no role in the consultation process or in the drawing up of codes.

The BAI is required to draw up and enforce a series of codes for broadcasters on the basis of a list set out in section 42(2) of the 2009 Broadcasting Act. The first two items on the list deal with news broadcasting, including objectivity and impartiality in news broadcasting, and the broadcast treatment of current affairs. News and current affairs content broadcast on Irish radio and television is required to comply with the 2009 Act and with the BAI code of fairness, objectivity and impartiality in news and current affairs. The statutory requirements and the BAI code require news and current affairs to be fair, objective and impartial.

The BAI has prepared detailed guidance notes to accompany the code to assist broadcasters in their interpretation. The notes are provided as an aid to understanding the intent of the principles and rules and the manner of their application in a broadcast context.

One issue about which there has been some discussion recently is the role of the presenter. The guidance notes recognise the vital role of a programme presenter. They highlight, however, that the role comes with attendant responsibilities. The aim of the code in this regard is to seek to prevent a partisan position from being advocated by a presenter and to guard against a presenter using his or her programme to pursue an agenda via comments, choice of guests or otherwise such that a biased view on an issue is articulated.

The code also sets out the manner in which complaints may be made about a particular problem. Any person is entitled to make a complaint about news and current affairs content. In the first instance, complaints should be directed to the broadcaster to consider on the basis of the code of practice for complaints handling. Section 47 requires broadcasters to consider all such complaints. Complainants may refer complaints to the BAI if they are not satisfied with the response provided by the broadcaster or where the broadcaster does not respond. One common issue arising in complaints dealing with fairness, objectivity and impartiality in news and current affairs relates to balanced coverage. The BAI has stated on many occasions that there is no automatic requirement for each topic to be balanced by an opposing view. While there are some instances where balance may be required - for example, in the case of a closely fought referendum - an automatic requirement is considered inappropriate. This has been made clear in several codes and documents published by the BAI since its inception in 2009.

The codes to be followed by broadcasters are published by the BAI. The requirements in respect of balance and fairness are not confined to the period of a referendum. Particular rules relate to the period of a referendum, but there are general rules in respect of fairness and balance that are not confined to referendum periods.

I have no wish to express any view in respect of any particular complaint or issue. However, for the information of the Deputy and the House, I note that rule 22 of the BAI code states: "a presenter and/or a reporter on a current affairs programme shall not express his or her own views on matters that are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate such that a partisan position is advocated." It may be that from time to time listeners, politicians or otherwise regard a particular point of view expressed in a programme as one with which they are less than comfortable. However, we need a third party to determine complaints in an objective way. It should not be done by politicians or otherwise. The Oireachtas has set up a third party to do this. Whereas people may have views as to the outcome of this or that complaint, we should support the independent body set up by the Oireachtas to make decisions on the basis of complaints made and brought freely pursuant to the codes. We should support the BAI in this regard. This does not mean we must agree with all of the authority's decisions, any more than we would agree with the decisions of courts or other quasi-judicial bodies, but the authority should be given the freedom to do the job we have asked of it.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

I completely respect the idea that the authority must be independent and that we need a third party to rule on these things, but what if the third party is wrong? What if we believe it is acting irresponsibly or inappropriately? To whom is the authority responsible at that point? What if, in setting up the code of conduct according to specifications in the Act, the authority did not proceed as it was intended under the legislation? Is there no point at which the Minister can review the legislation, the authority or the code?

I appreciate the Minister's response, in which he referred to instances where balance may be required and where an automatic requirement for balance is considered inappropriate. If there is a closely fought referendum the former may apply.

Is there not a contradiction in the rulings on the two specific issues raised? They relate to the same issue, that is to say, the debate on marriage equality. One related to people talking about civil partnership some years after agreeing a civil partnership, what it meant to them and how they looked forward to marriage equality. The other related to the gay pride parade in Dublin. Of course we are going to talk about marriage equality in the context of that debate. Of course there should be no automatic expectation of a contrary view in that case. How could anyone interpret the code of the BAI to deem it necessary for a contrary view in these two instances, both of which relate to marriage equality? This does not look good for the BAI.

There are legitimate public concerns on this issue because many people have been talking about it. Where is the mechanism by which we can argue that there may be a legitimate reason for us not to interfere with the independence of the authority? How do we assess whether it is acting in accordance with the legislation as set up? The Irish Council for Civil Liberties expressed concern publicly about the possibility that some of these rulings could have a chilling effect on public debate. The National Union of Journalists referred to this decision being harmful to the public interest. Therefore, we cannot sit back and take the view that the authority is an independent entity which we set up in 2009 with a code drafted by the authority itself and therefore we cannot get involved. We must consider the matter and establish what mechanisms we can use to ensure it is acting in accordance with the best interests of public debate.

The Minister referenced other parts of the code in respect of issues of controversy. This is not an issue of controversy. Some people might have a difficulty accepting the way Irish society is going, but we should consider the public interest. Here we are one year before a referendum is to be held and people are talking about an event in which they are participating. As part of that discussion people are projecting a view on something that may happen in future and the broadcaster is doing the same. That is not controversial, and the BAI should not be able to intervene, declare this inappropriate and rule against the parties involved on the matter.

Deputy Alex White

I have no wish to trespass on the particular issue, but where there is a difference in point of view there is likely to be a controversy. The fact that we have a particular viewpoint on an issue and others have a different view would seem to point to the existence of a controversy. The fact results from people disagreeing with a particular decision. I am at pains to emphasise that I am not trespassing on the particular issue. However, the fact that Deputy Eoghan Murphy, I or others might think something is wrong or might disagree with a decision made does not impugn the integrity of the body or third party making that decision. The point is to take it away from the political system or any third party other than one set up properly under legislation.

I respect that Deputy Eoghan Murphy has raised this issue, but he made a point about whether the BAI was acting in accordance with legislation. I have no reason to believe from anything that I have seen from the BAI in this regard or anything with respect to what the Deputy has said this afternoon, even remotely, that the BAI is not acting in accordance with the legislation.

Reference was made to the codes the BAI has published. As I understand it, these were done after a lengthy consultation period. I am unsure whether the issue relates to the code or the particular outcome.

Another point is relevant to this issue. This morning, on my nomination, the Government agreed to appoint five new members to the broadcasting authority because the term of office of the previous authority had come to an end. I thank the outgoing members of the BAI under the leadership of Bob Collins. The new members will take up office immediately under the chairmanship of Dr. Pauric Travers.

Flood Relief Schemes Status

Deputy Michael McCarthy

I am grateful to the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue matter. While the Government has ring-fenced almost €13 million for flood defences in Skibbereen, many concerns have been raised locally about slippage in the planned schedule of works for the scheme. Last year, an estimated 59 mm of rain fell in the space of six hours between the hours of 6 p.m. on Thursday, 24 October and 2 a.m. on Friday, 25 October. It was a deluge that saw the black tarred roads of Skibbereen flowing like a river. Skibbereen has been inundated with flood waters many times over the years, especially in 2009. After the 2009 flood, which caused devastation to 200 businesses and residences, many people are now without flood cover and have no hope of getting it. Earlier this year, the previous Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, the former Deputy Brian Hayes, visited Skibbereen. I attended a meeting with him with representatives from the locality and other public representatives. The then Minister of State said he realised the personal and economic impact of flooding. He assured locals: "The Government is absolutely committed to protecting the town and, when completed, the scheme will provide 200-year flood event protection to approximately 179 homes and 131 commercial properties."

Since it was first announced that Skibbereen needed a flood relief scheme, the project has been dogged by delays. Each of the phases of the scheme has been affected by a delay of three or four months. Work was originally due to begin in the second half of 2014 and was expected to be completed within 18 months. It was envisaged that the detailed design process would commence before the end of November 2013 and it was hoped to complete it and the process of procuring a civil works contractor around mid-2014. This would have allowed construction to commence in the third quarter of 2014 but this, alas, has not happened.

In reply to a parliamentary question I tabled in September, the Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, who is in the House, outlined the current position with regard to the Skibbereen flood relief scheme. He indicated that it was at the stage of procurement of civil works contractors and that contractors would be appointed after a two-stage process. The process was stated to be at the pre-qualification stage which would produce a shortlist of contractors to be invited to tender. The second stage of the process was expected to commence shortly and it was hoped that the OPW would be in a position to appoint contractors early in 2015. As each month passes, people are becoming increasingly frustrated and exceptionally concerned. Each month of slippage allows for more potential flooding, particularly at this time of year, with the consequent expense to residents and businesses. As a flooded community, the people of Skibbereen want the flood relief scheme back on track and work to commence as soon as possible. I accept that there is no quick-fix solution and that it will take time, but we need action and to see construction beginning.

The OPW must take seriously the near constant threat of flooding and the absolute devastation that would be caused in Skibbereen. I would be very grateful to the Minister of State for his personal attention and interest in advancing this flood relief scheme. I note that he is visiting Clonakilty on Monday, 15 December to launch the public consultation phase of the Clonakilty flood relief scheme. I call on him to visit Skibbereen also and meet the group I met recently in my constituency office in Dunmanway. They are between the devil and the deep blue sea, if the Minister of State will excuse the pun. If anything happens in the current climate, it will mean utter devastation. Defence works have not started and people do not have flood cover. It is an horrendous situation and I ask the Minister of State to give it his personal attention.

Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Deputy Simon Harris)

I thank Deputy Michael McCarthy for giving me the opportunity to provide an update to the House by raising this important matter for the people of Skibbereen this evening. I assure him that his request that I give the matter my personal attention is one to which I am happy to accede.

I had an opportunity last Thursday to address the Seanad about flooding and to outline the following. In my five months in this job, I have visited many areas of the country that have been affected by flooding and heard at first hand the experiences of people who have seen their homes, businesses and farms damaged by flood waters. I am very aware of the hardship and, as the Deputy correctly puts it, utter devastation people have suffered because of flooding and appreciate the frustration that people such as the residents of Skibbereen feel at the length of time it takes to get a flood defence scheme in place. I assure the Deputy, the House and the people of Skibbereen at the outset that the Skibbereen scheme is a priority. It is a priority for me, the Government and the Office of Public Works. The preparatory work is being progressed as quickly as possible by Cork County Council working on behalf of and with funding from the OPW with a view to commencing construction as early as possible in 2015.

The council has been working on a proposed scheme since late 2009 when a severe flood event affected the town with more than 200 properties reported to have been flooded. With the assistance of OPW funding, the council appointed consultants in early 2011 to design a scheme to be brought forward for consultation with the public. The main proposals of the scheme include the construction of new walls and embankments along the River Ilen and some of its tributaries in the town, new pumping stations, localised channel regrading and improvements to the local drainage system. There have been many opportunities for the public to engage with the design team, including public information days held in March 2011 and January 2012, and the formal public exhibition over a four-week period in April and May 2013. A large number of submissions, some quite detailed, were made following the exhibition. This level of engagement and input from the local community in the development of a scheme is very important. Some submissions, for example, raised concerns over the levels of protection to be provided in certain areas based on past experiences of local people which led to a review of some aspects of the proposed scheme.

We have very good engineers in the OPW, as they have in Cork County Council, but no matter how good one's engineers are, one cannot beat the knowledge of local people who have experienced flooding themselves. I was very grateful to the people of Skibbereen for their input and the benefits there have been to the proposed scheme as a result. In recognition of the valuable contribution that local knowledge can make to fine-tuning scheme proposals, the OPW and Cork County Council requested the consultants to carry out further surveys and analysis to alleviate the concerns raised at the exhibition before determination of the next steps required to take the scheme forward. Following the completion of an exhibition report, all those who had made submissions were responded to and this resulted in further issues being raised by affected members of the public which had to be dealt with. This level of detailed engagement and consultation with the public is a time-consuming process and adds to the time taken to progress the development of the scheme design. It is, however, a very important part of the process and will ultimately lead to a better and more effective scheme for the people of Skibbereen.

With the assistance of its consultants on the scheme, Cork County Council commenced a procurement process for a civil works contractor to undertake the scheme works earlier this year with a view to having a contractor appointed towards the end of 2014. However, the procurement process has taken longer than anticipated for various reasons and is still ongoing, with the result that the council will not now be in a position to appoint a contractor in 2014. The council expects to be in a position to appoint a contractor early in 2015 with construction expected to take approximately 18 months. I understand the frustration that people feel at the length of time it has taken to bring the Skibbereen scheme to construction. I also understand the very real difficulties they have. I will touch on the insurance issue in my supplementary response, but I assure the Deputy that this is a priority for me. The funding is ring-fenced and the scheme will be delivered. I expect significant progress in early 2015.

Deputy Michael McCarthy

I thank the Minister of State for his personal interest in the scheme and his detailed reply. I contacted the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform within the last two weeks, having met the local committee behind the campaign on this very important work. The Minister of State said himself in his reply that detailed design for the scheme was commenced by consultants following the completion of the public exhibition and he indicated that this was practically completed. What is involved here is the Minister of State's Department, Cork County Council and the consultants. The report is almost complete and will go to the local authority and then the Department. Can we expedite that process with all due haste? We are heading into the Christmas period and anything that is not worked out before the holidays will inevitably be deferred until January. Can we make absolutely sure that we get the report to the local authority and the Department? I would be very grateful if the process were led at departmental level.

The Minister of State will be in Clonakilty on 15 December and we always welcome that type of proactive approach by Ministers and Ministers of State in coming to an area to see schemes first-hand. It is a very important part of our democracy and I acknowledge it in that context. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State would also do two other things that day.

I ask him to meet members of the Skibbereen flood committee and, if his diary allows, to travel to Skibbereen as his predecessor, the former Minister of State, Mr. Brian Hayes, MEP, did at the start of the year. On that occasion, the then Minister of State gave a commitment in good faith which, for reasons beyond his control, was not realised within the stated timeframe. Having met those affected, I know how important this flood relief work is to them. I urge the Minister of State to look favourably on my two requests and thank him in advance for considering them. I ask that the design be provided forthwith and that he use his visit to the area on 15 December to meet members of the Skibbereen flood committee and, if possible, visit the town. It would be an ideal opportunity to do so.

Deputy Simon Harris

I will look favourably on both of the Deputy's requests. He can take as a given that I will do everything I can to ensure the report is delivered with haste. I share his frustration and that of people in Skibbereen. The Government wants this flood relief scheme to be delivered and has provided funding to that end. People in Skibbereen now expect it to be delivered, having invested considerable time in providing valuable information that will ensure we will have the best and most effective scheme possible.

I will be delighted to visit Skibbereen and meet people in the town. While I cannot give the Deputy a guarantee that I will be able to do so on 15 December, I guarantee that I will do so in the coming weeks. I will arrange with the Deputy and other Members to meet a delegation from Skibbereen, either in Leinster House or Skibbereen. It would be useful for everyone to come together to make a collective push to get the scheme over the line.

The Deputy also raised the issue of insurance, which is a source of concern for people in Skibbereen and elsewhere. As he noted, my predecessor, the former Minister of State, Mr. Brian Hayes, did a great deal of work in agreeing a memorandum of understanding with the insurance industry. It involves the Office of Public Works sharing with the insurance industry details of the flood relief programme. In return, we expect the industry to factor this information into its commercial decisions. Following publication of the CFRAM programme, we may end up spending €1 billion on flood relief works over two decades. We cannot have the taxpayer spending more than €40 million per annum on flood relief schemes while people are left without insurance. I met representatives of Insurance Ireland today and expect to receive an update in the next week or thereabouts showing what the organisation has done with the information it received under the memorandum of understanding and how many people have been provided with insurance as a result of flood relief schemes. I hope and expect that once the scheme has been delivered in Skibbereen, Insurance Ireland and the insurance industry in general will live up to their side of the bargain. This will require the industry to factor information provided by the OPW into its commercial decisions in a favourable manner. Insurance cover is a great worry for people and addressing the issue is one of my priorities.

I again thank the Deputy for raising the issue and reiterate my commitment to Skibbereen.

Homeless Accommodation Provision

Deputy Derek Keating

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter for discussion. I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and thank him for coming to the House to participate in this debate.

I submitted this topic for discussion on a number of occasions last week and decided to try one more time before I left the House last Friday. Little did I know then that by the time the issue had been selected for debate, Mr. Jonathan Corrie would have died not 50 m from Leinster House. May he rest in peace.

I am aware that the issue of homelessness is complex and that one must factor in issues such as alcoholism, drug abuse, mental illness and the breakdown of relationships. The Oireachtas and the Government cannot wash their hands of the issue or leave it to those who work daily to solve the problem. I have in mind organisations such as the Simon Community, Focus Ireland and Inner City Helping Homeless. Emergency accommodation must be provided as a short-term solution.

I welcome the initiative announced by the Minister today to invite a number of stakeholders to attend an emergency forum on homelessness. The figure indicating that 168 people are homeless in Dublin may be the tip of the iceberg as more people slip into homelessness every day. There are also many layers of homelessness and many reasons for it. I am aware of homeless people who travel many miles to Clondalkin every day to keep their children in education. We can only imagine the additional distress this causes.

Short-term emergency solutions are needed. The problem, as the Taoiseach and the Minister noted in statements today, can only be solved by implementing long-term solutions. For this reason, I welcome the Minister's initiative and the ten actions announced by the Government which include the refurbishment of vacant units, the provision of increased funding for housing and emergency beds, as well as the housing first service and other initiatives. This approach provides a way forward in the long term. However, we must also ensure an emergency programme is introduced to solve the problem for those who are sleeping on the streets before Christmas.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

Since the Government took office, we have had a major housing crisis. I extend my sympathy to the family and friends of Mr. Jonathan Corrie who died only a stone's throw from Leinster House. I hope his death has finally kicked the Government into action.

The Government's recent proposals on housing placed little emphasis on the emergency housing crisis. It is clear that the increase in homelessness has been caused by people losing their homes as a result of rent increases. The caps applied to the rent supplement and rental accommodation schemes are being breached by landlords. Families in emergency accommodation are spending lengthy periods in hotels, bed and breakfast accommodation and hostels which were intended to provide a temporary solution. The long-term answer to the problem is to deliver more social housing.

What we need is a plan to enable people to access places immediately. Rent controls which the Government has resisted are necessary to stop the haemorrhaging of people from the rent supplement and rental accommodation schemes into homelessness. Figures show that 45 families were made homeless in the past month and that 168 people were recorded as sleeping rough on one night in Dublin alone. Every night 2,580 adults and 798 children are housed in emergency accommodation. We do not know the true figure because some people are living in cars, sleeping on sofas in other people's homes or finding other places to sleep. We do not know anything about these people.

State properties and properties owned by the National Asset Management Agency, abandoned buildings and other innovative options should be utilised. I have been on the soup run on which I have seen appalling sights. Furthermore, families housed in hotels and bed and breakfast accommodation do not have cooking facilities or amenities and their children do not have anywhere to go. They are isolated from their extended families and children must travel across the city to attend school.

Government statements suggesting it will end long-term homelessness in 2016 are farcical considering the scale of the problem, as is the claim that it will end waiting lists by 2020. According to the Taoiseach, officials and representatives of the housing agencies and local authorities will meet next Thursday. A series of constructive steps are needed, not a talking shop. The Government was quick to allocate €700 million from the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund to Irish Water. It should consider this option as a means of securing more funding to deal with the issue of homelessness.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The tragic death of Mr. Jonathan Corrie is an unspeakable event for his family, friends and loved ones. It is also a source of immense shame for the State, the political system and the Government. We cannot allow tragedies such as Mr. Corrie's death to continue. Emergency measures are needed to deal with what has become a national emergency. Talk of long-term solutions and spending billions of euro by 2020 is all very well, but we need an emergency response now. Incidentally, the House has not had an opportunity to properly scrutinise the Government's housing proposals, about which many questions remain unanswered.

I will make two simple proposals which have been made on numerous occasions, both by the homeless agencies and, since 2011, Deputies in this House. First, suitable empty buildings must be requisitioned in every local authority area and quickly refurbished to provide accommodation for the homeless.

In my area there are two buildings owned by the local authority, one of which has been earmarked for homeless accommodation for several years and another of which is an empty building in which dozens of families or people could live. They are sitting there empty. The local authority should be given the money to refurbish them and get people off the streets.

We need a telephone call from the Minister for Social Protection to community welfare officers around the country telling them one simple thing, namely, that if a person cannot find accommodation under the rent caps but can find it at €1,100, €1,200 or €1,300, it will be approved. It is not about raising the general level of the caps; rather, it is about nobody being turned away. All a community welfare officer has to do to confirm the legitimacy of such a claim is to go onto www.daft.ie on the same day and check if it is a reasonable request.

I know of a woman who was made homeless three months ago because of the rent caps. She has found somewhere that is cheaper but is still not within the rent caps. She was led to believe by the Minister for Social Protection that there would be flexibility from the community welfare officer. This weekend she, along with her two children, is facing homelessness again because the community welfare officer will not sanction a breach of the cap. She will be homeless unless those telephone calls are made. I appeal for a phone call to be made to the Department of Social Protection to say nobody will be forced into homelessness because of the rent caps.

Deputy Joan Collins

What happened outside Leinster House on Monday morning was a tragedy for the whole country and, in particular, the Government. I would like to extend my sincere condolences to Jonathan, his family and his friends. The best thing we can do is to do something about the situation he faced on the streets night after night. When one contrasts what happened yesterday with the fact that NAMA, the largest state-owned property company in the world, is sitting on property, we can only ask why this happened.

The Minister has called a summit on Thursday. Will he invite the CEO of NAMA to the meeting to ask him exactly what properties are vacant and how they can be utilised? Can we establish how many suitable properties which could be used to solve the issue of rough sleeping as part of the emergency resolution are held in the city by NAMA? It cannot be impossible to deal immediately with the estimated 170 people who are sleeping rough in the city. As Father Peter McVerry said, such people are the ones people can see. It is the ones who are hiding and trying to protect themselves who should also be added to the list. There could be another 40 or 50 people sleeping rough.

The Archbishop of Dublin has said he has been invited to the summit. Can he be asked why 90 completed housing units at Father Scully House, built with 100% funding from the State and the city council and run by the Catholic Housing Aid Society, are lying idle because of the rent demands from that institution?

We see the same thing happening every year. We respond to the crisis, but we now need to put in place something that can deal with the crisis in the future. There should be a temporary three-year rent cap to deal with the crisis in the building of social housing, a rent supplement increase for those in immediate need and a longer-term plan to bring on board properties which will provide suitable accommodation, rather than the squalor I have seen in wet hostels, in which people can feel comfortable and secure. Many people will not stay in hostels because they are insecure, their belongings are stolen and the situation is chaotic.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I also express my condolences to the family of Jonathan Corrie, my solidarity with all of those who face the human tragedy of homelessness and my support for those who are currently holding a vigil to highlight this issue.

There has been an explosion in homelessness. There has always been homelessness in our society, but it has multiplied massively over the past year. Focus Ireland said it would normally deal with about eight families a month; last month it dealt with 45. All of those cases involve individual human tragedies. Every person who contacts me in a housing crisis has a horrific tale about the experience of ending up in that situation and trying to get out of it. We have seen cases such as that of Shane and Ciara Dwyer, who were living in their car in Jobstown, Fiona O'Connor, who has to leave her house by Christmas Day, and Helen Lynch, who has been homeless for the best part of a year and has to find permanent accommodation in order for her son to get on a transplant list. Every single one of the numbers has a human case underneath it. We cannot wash our hands of the situation and say it is a tragedy and some unexplained natural disaster. It is a tragedy which is a result of Government policy. It is obviously not the intention of the Government for this to happen to anybody, but it flows from Government policy. Father Peter McVerry put his finger on it earlier today when he said:

Unfortunately cattle and sheep are more important to our economy than homeless people. We have a homeless crisis which is not being addressed.

That is the reality.

The long-term solution, including rent caps, rent controls and the building of significant amounts of social housing, and the short-term need to provide emergency homeless accommodation are not being addressed. NAMA owns 12% of all the hotels in the State. Homeless people are living in very difficult emergency accommodation where there are curfews and security personnel end up in their homes without forewarning. People who are in desperate situations are treated as prisoners. We need to refurbish the hotels and allow people to stay in them while homes are being built.

Deputy Mick Wallace

The death of Jonathan Corrie is shocking but not surprising. I thought Rory Hearne of Maynooth University put it well when he said recently:

When our financial system was in peril there was no obstacle too large for our political establishment and the state to overcome. Now we face an equivalent crisis in terms of the fundamental housing needs and rights of hundreds of thousands of our citizens. It is legitimate to ask why the same radical approach that determinedly did 'whatever was needed to be done' is not applied to the housing crisis. It appears it is because the government is unwilling to stand up to the financial and property investors and transform the residential property market into a system to meet housing needs.

Rent supplements were capped but rents were not, and never the twain shall meet. The system does not work. We were told NAMA was to have a mandate to contribute to the social and economic development of the State, but that has not happened. It has not contributed to the public good, despite the significant potential it had to do so. In fact, the manner in which it has sold assets to large investment bodies, particularly real estate investment trusts, has significantly worsened the housing crisis.

I know of a development in which apartments were sold for less than half of what it would cost to build them today, and where rent two years ago for a two-bedroom apartment was €1,000 per month, which has increased to €1,200 or €1,250. Tenants have been told their rent will increase to €1,400 a month.

In its so-called housing strategy the Government told us that 75,000 of the people in need will be at the mercy of the private rental market. If it allows that, and does not control and monitor the private rental market, we will have the same fiasco. It will not work.

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Alan Kelly)

I thank all Deputies for their contributions. I do not doubt their sincerity in trying to find solutions to this very complex issue. I too want to offer my condolences to the family and friends of Jonathan Corrie. It is quite shocking that he died so close to where we operate every day in trying to solve these issues. I do not want to turn this into a political shouting match because that would not be appropriate. This is a political Chamber, but there are some topics for which we need to find solutions without dropping down to political point-scoring.

The reasons many people are homeless are complex, and sometimes the solutions have to be. If there were an easy solution to deal with every individual who is homeless, I would have made sure it happened. There is no best practice for homelessness. I have taken a number of actions as Minister and have prioritised this issue. Meetings about social housing and, in particular, homelessness, take place with Dublin City Council at 9 a.m. every Monday. A Cabinet sub-committee meets to discuss this issue on a regular basis. Many fairly positive actions have been taken.

For instance, in the next few months another 655 voids - social housing units that have been closed up - will be opened. This alone could provide enough units for people homeless in this city. It is scandalous these units have been left void as they are the quickest way to turn around the situation in this city. I prioritised the return to use of these units immediately I took on this role.

I have changed the allocation policy in regard to homelessness. For instance, I have told local authorities in Dublin that 25% of allocations should be based on the homeless. I have increased the budget by 20%, bringing it to over €55 million, the highest ever. Just 12 or 14 days ago, I provided a further €4 million to Dublin City Council for homelessness, despite the fact that the council rejected a proposal to increase the budget for homelessness. We are all aware supply is the critical issue and we must ensure we have a greater supply for the future. Hence the policy announced last week and the €3.8 billion to provide for the new strategy in the medium and long term. We have also announced the Housing First service, which is being provided through Focus Ireland and the Peter McVerry Trust and will provide support for the homeless and those with specific needs. Some 164 more emergency beds will be supplied in the coming weeks, bringing supply to in excess of 1,500 beds.

I would like to see the intervention mechanism run in Dublin by Threshold rolled out further. It concerns itself with people in vulnerable situations who might be about to become homeless and intervenes and negotiates on their behalf, via the local authority and landlords etc. It has dealt successfully with more than 200 cases in recent months. I would like to see this rolled out throughout the country because the intervention tactic works well. In more than 90% of these cases, the rent supplement has been increased. This initiative was targeted, but we need to become more involved in intervention.

There is a plan in place to deal with homelessness and this plan was in place long before the social housing strategy was announced last week. I have announced a coming together on Thursday of the key players to discuss how we can maximise everything that is being done. I am not convinced it is all about funding, but if there is a requirement for funding, I will go to Cabinet and demand more funding. The processes are at play here. We need a greater coming together of everyone working on this issue - the Department, the Government, local authorities, the NGOs and other organisations - to ensure people do not fall between stools and to ensure we intervene where necessary.

It is not just an issue of providing accommodation. If that was all it was about, I am confident we could do that. There are solutions to provision through NAMA and other sources, but the issue is more complex. Each individual circumstance is different. It is about providing complex solutions that work and initiating a process that will ensure they always work. There must be continual interception in order that people are not made homeless one night, then we intervene, but one week later they are homeless again. A complex solution is required.

The actions we have taken are good, but the issue now is that we must work closely with the NGOs and other agencies to ensure that all of the processes intercept those who are vulnerable to the maximum possible. That is the ambition behind our planned meeting on Thursday. I have meetings every week on the issue of homelessness. Officials from the Department meet officials from Dublin City Council and local authorities every Monday morning at 9 o'clock on the issue of homelessness. This is not about another strategy or plan. It is about taking direct and immediate action to help those whom everyone in this House agrees we should help.

Deputy Derek Keating

I thank the Minister for his response. It is clear from his contribution that there is no simple solution and this issue cannot be resolved by the stroke of a pen. It is a complex situation and I wish the Minister well in dealing with it. We will be watching vigilantly given what has happened and I wish him well with the work.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The Minister says the issue is complex and is not all about resources. I am sorry, but it is substantially about resources. Take, for example, the case of Ann Heffernan, the woman I have talked about. Having been made homeless several months ago because the rent for the accommodation she was in went up to €1,300, she went to the community welfare officer, but the officer would not sanction a rise in the cap and she was made homeless as a result. She then went looking for somewhere else to stay and managed to find a place for €1,200, but when she went to the community officer and asked if he would would sanction €1,200, the community welfare officer said sorry, but the cap was €975. She then got on to Threshold, but it cannot get the officer to raise the cap. She will be homeless next week unless a telephone call goes to the community welfare officer asking him to raise the cap. This situation is happening all over the city. We cannot have excuses and bureaucracy and talk of complexity covering this reality.

Deputy Alan Kelly

We are not covering it.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Let us have action. I want to see the community welfare officer being phoned and told to raise the cap to realistic levels. In regard to buildings, Peter McVerry and Crosscare will say that if we give them the buildings, they will house the people on the streets.

Deputy Joan Collins

The Minister did not answer two of the questions I put. Will NAMA be part of that discussion on Thursday? It should be, because it is the biggest property owner almost in the world. In regard to Fr. Scully House, why are those 90 units not handed over immediately?

Deputy Alan Kelly

Sorry, I meant to answer that.

Deputy Joan Collins

These units could deal immediately with those who are homeless currently. There are 1,400 families in emergency accommodation, 168 people or more in Dublin city alone. Whatever we can do in Dublin must be done around the country where similar supports are needed. The Minister was correct in saying that 248 homeless people from the homeless list were provided with long-term accommodation, but the numbers of homeless are rising. Once people cannot pay the rents demanded by rack-renting landlords, we will see more people on the streets. This must be stopped. The only way this can be stopped is to put a cap on rents. There must be rent control and the rent supplement must be raised.

In addition, decent accommodation must be made available. I talk to a homeless man on Marlborough Street regularly. He says he will not go near the hostels because his stuff would be robbed and there are too many problems and there is too much chaos in them. The accommodation being provided must and should be of good quality.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I do not deny that homelessness is a complex and complicated issue, but the Government should not be allowed hide behind that. Much of the homelessness facing us right now is not that complicated. According to Peter McVerry, a majority of those who are homeless currently - this is substantiated by my empirical experience - are homeless simply because rents have risen out of control and they cannot afford to pay them. These are not just single people who are unemployed. Some are couples, one who is working and one who is unemployed. They are homeless because rents are out of control, particularly in this city. The simple solution to this is to increase the caps immediately, impose rent controls and, over time, build homes.

There is also a simple enough solution to the dire circumstances of people in emergency accommodation. Dublin City Council paid €2.4 million last year to private hotels and other commercial entities for emergency accommodation at a time when NAMA is sitting on hotel properties that could quite easily be adapted and made accessible for homeless people.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Nobody doubts that this is a serious challenge, but for a number of years most Government action, of this and the previous Government, was geared by a neo-liberal ideology. That is part of this scene. When the Minister said he was introducing a housing strategy, I thought we would get a real housing strategy, but what he has given us is a budget plan. What has he done about rent control? In Germany, rent is linked to inflation. Here it seems it is linked to the sky. Rent has gone up 30% in two years.

The Government seems prepared to walk away from interference in the private market. What is the Minister doing about quality social housing and about where it is being built? Half of the young people looking for housing in Ireland in the next ten years will be looking for social housing, because they will not be able to afford to buy homes. The buying of homes by young people will be a thing of the past.

What are we doing about land banking and about developer-led planning? What are we going to do about ghettoisation? These are all issues I thought were going to be part of the Government's housing strategy. The Minister can talk all he likes but the Government is not dealing in a holistic manner with the challenges of housing in Ireland.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I thank Deputy Wallace. That was an amazing contribution from him. We all have responsibilities in this House. We all have responsibilities towards everyone we deal with, and so does Deputy Wallace. We all have responsibilities to ensure we do our utmost to make sure people do not get into poverty and are not left in difficult situations. It is imperative we all do that. I certainly will not be hiding behind anything. I am going to hide behind budgets or anything else in regard to an issue like this; it is far more serious than that. I have said already in the House, in committee and previously that if it is a question of looking for budgets, I will get budgets, but it is broader than that. It is a very complex issue. If the processes are not working, people will slip through the cracks no matter how much we put into this. That is a fact, and I know all of the Deputies have accepted it to some degree.

I have no issue whatsoever with NAMA coming in. It has supplied a serious number of units for social housing and there is a plan to supply thousands more, so there is no issue there.

I am more interested in Deputy Joan Collins's second point on Fr. Scully House. I agree with the Deputy. Perhaps I should have been more vocal on this earlier but this cannot go on. We have a situation where 99 units are not in play. This is not in my control, as the House will appreciate, as it is a private organisation. I will be asking Archbishop Diarmuid Martin about this but I understand he has made comments previously that he does not have any role, so I will have to tease this out. By all accounts, the name as opposed to the orientation is the Catholic Housing Aid Society, but whatever role Archbishop Martin can have, I would welcome any help. The idea of a situation continuing where 99 units - fine units, by all accounts - are left standing idle is not acceptable and cannot continue. There may be other cases where work is taking place with other groups and there are similar issues.

I want to see solutions brought about that will intercept people who are in vulnerable situations. I have spoken previously about budgets but I absolutely believe that, collectively, there is a need for processes to be put in place to co-ordinate what we, the local authorities, all of the NGOs, State agencies like the HSE and others involved in addiction counselling are doing. It must cover everything. All of this needs a protocol that works clearly. My orientation on Thursday will be to deal with that in an intense way to put in place processes that will work. If it requires more funding, I will go to Government looking for that and I will get that, but it is not, I believe, confined to that issue. I need everyone to come to the table, to leave their organisational brand outside as regards what they want for themselves, to think collectively, as a society, working together in that room on how we are going to deal with this issue, because society let down Jonathan.

Deputy Joan Collins

Rent controls first, then deal individually with those landlords who have problems with that.