Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Feb 2015

Vol. 869 No. 3

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The latest national census figures show an increase in the population in urban areas. However, 40% of Irish citizens still live in rural areas and, unfortunately, the Government's record shows that these people have been largely forgotten. General practitioner, GP, vacancies are not being filled, 200 bank branches have closed, post offices are under threat of closure while some have been closed already, small schools continue to be under threat, there has been an increase in costs for children attending local schools as they have to pay more for bus services, and broadband provision could be described as primitive, at best. As a consequence of that rural decline, approximately 1,300 pubs have also closed. Rural dwellers feel extremely isolated as a result of the decisions of the Government.

Central Statistics Office, CSO, figures show that people living in rural areas have 25% less disposable income than people living in urban areas. They also show that whatever level of economic recovery has taken place, or is under way, is concentrated on the east coast and the commuter belt. People in rural areas still believe that they live in an economically depressed zone and that they are getting no support from the Government. For me and many others, the Government's attitude was summed up last week when Bus Éireann announced a cut to almost 100 daily services on routes affecting places such as Bunclody, Castlecomer, Ballyporeen, Roscommon and Castlerea. That will have a significant impact on the lives of people who live in those areas and are served by those services. College students, elderly citizens attending outpatient clinics in local hospitals and hard-pressed, low paid workers in the service sector who depend on those services to get to their jobs early in the morning and to get home late at night will be acutely affected by the decision to axe those services.

Does the Tánaiste appreciate the importance of a well functioning public transport system that serves the entire country, both urban and rural? Was she informed by Bus Éireann in advance of its announcement last Monday that it intended to axe these services? When will she and her party start to defend the public transport system in the State? Will the Tánaiste engage with the National Transport Authority, NTA, and Bus Éireann to ensure that these services are maintained for the people who need them so much, long beyond the June deadline that has been set?

The Tánaiste

Regarding the development of rural Ireland, I am sure the Deputy will join me in welcoming the announcement by Apple of the establishment of a major data centre, on a global and European scale, in Athenry. That is the type of news for rural Ireland that every Deputy wishes to hear. It is part of the fruits of the work of the Government in developing a regional strategy, which we published recently, for rural development. I agree with the Deputy that the recovery has been most strongly felt in the big cities of Dublin, Limerick, Galway and Cork. We know that and it is the Government's job to spread that recovery out to every section of the community, and particularly to rural areas, through the regional development strategy. In addition to Athenry, the Deputy will be aware that there have been a number of other positive announcements through ConnectIreland relating to employment in rural areas.

Second, when I was appointed Tánaiste, given my commitment to rural Ireland, I secured the appointment of Deputy Ann Phelan as Minister of State with responsibility for rural affairs to focus on the economic and social challenges that face people in rural areas. The Deputy outlined some of the challenges they face. The Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, is tasked with implementing the recommendations of the Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, for the remainder of this Government's term. A great deal of work has gone into developing strategies for agriculture and the marine, areas where we have significant strengths. Again, the Deputy will welcome the fact that markets in the United States, China and Japan are now open for Irish beef. That is a very important vote of confidence in rural Ireland.

Regarding transportation and the Bus Éireann regional routes, I heard the details about the meeting in Castlecomer and that this will now be reviewed, as it ought to be. People in rural areas, like people in the outlying regions of Dublin and many in my constituency, depend on good transport links to get to college, to their jobs and to hospital appointments. Bus Éireann did not contact me about its plans. However, I am aware that it is looking at those plans and taking account of how it can best address the needs of the communities that would be affected.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I thank the Tánaiste for re-announcing the Apple jobs. I have already complimented IDA Ireland on the continuation of its policy.

The Tánaiste

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I fail to see what involvement the Tánaiste had in it, but she can take what credit she wishes.

In the Tánaiste's little soliloquy she spoke about appointing a Minister of State with responsibility for rural affairs as part of the programme for Government. She might recall that the appointment was a replacement for a senior Minister and a Department that existed prior to this Government taking office, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. The Tánaiste is reminding the people that in the negotiations with Fine Gael, she relegated rural affairs to a Minister of State rather than a Minister. I had forgotten that when I was preparing my few words for this debate and I thank her for reminding me.

I also remind the Tánaiste that following the negotiations on the programme for Government, a Minister of State was appointed with responsibility for public transport. The Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, was the Minister of State at the time and he did little else in that role other than protect the rail line between Nenagh and Ballybrophy. When he moved to the higher office of Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, the office of a Minister of State with responsibility for public transport was consigned to the shredder, like many of the Government's promises prior to the last election.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I will ask my question again. Is the Tánaiste prepared to fight for public transport at the Cabinet table? She talks about engaging. Will she engage proactively with the NTA and Bus Éireann to ensure funding is put in place to protect those routes beyond June and the forthcoming by-election in Carlow-Kilkenny, about which she obviously has some concerns? Will she give a commitment today that she is prepared to engage proactively to ensure the funding is put in place to retain these routes and if additional funding is required to designate them as public service obligation routes? It would show some level of respect for the people she hoodwinked in advance of the last election, when she promised an office of public transport. She gave the impression that she would support the public transport infrastructure, but she has failed to do so thus far.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

How many post offices did Deputy Dooley's party close?

The Tánaiste

I recall the record of the Deputy's own party in respect of post offices. In a period of great economic boom in Ireland, from 2003 to 2011, such was his party's incredible concern for rural Ireland that it closed 1,100 post offices. Those are the numbers.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Noel Coonan

Is Deputy Dooley shocked?

The Tánaiste

I would not expect much to bring a blush to the face of Fianna Fáil, but the closure of 1,100 post offices is somewhat Olympian in scale. As the Deputy knows, particularly since I became Minister for Social Protection, An Post has gone on to compete successfully-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

How many did the Tánaiste open again, if they were so important to her?

A Deputy

When the Deputy is in a hole, he should stop digging.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Did the Tánaiste reopen even one of them?

The Tánaiste

The record should show that the Deputy is now an attractive shade of pink, demonstrating that he does have a response.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

There is no pink. All I see is the white flag being raised by the Tánaiste, in line with the colour of her jacket.

The Tánaiste

Since I became Minister for Social Protection, An Post has gone on to successfully compete for the contract for payments in cash through post offices across the country. This is important in urban areas but is particularly important in rural areas. I have been very happy as Minister for Social Protection to see this happen, as opposed to having extended discussions on it, as happened when Deputy Dooley's party was in Government.

There are ongoing discussions on the provision of rural transport. My Department funds free travel. CIE and the different companies within CIE are beneficiaries of this funding to the tune of just over €75 million. Another couple of million euro goes to private operators. I agree with the Deputy that the issue of transport is vital for people in rural areas. One of the best things that has happened recently in that context is the significant fall in the price of diesel and petrol.

Deputy Sean Fleming

Fares have not come down.

Deputy Robert Troy

They are going up.

The Tánaiste

This has given quite a significant cost break to people in rural Ireland.

Deputy Sean Fleming

Did the Government reduce the fares?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

That was a hard one for Deputy Dooley. It did not work out too well.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I will see Deputy Durkan at the public meeting tonight so.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Almost every day my office is contacted by families who are at their wits' end and fearful of losing their homes. Some are hardworking families who, due to unemployment or illness, have fallen behind in their mortgage repayments. Others are private tenants who are meeting their monthly payments but whose homes are subject to repossession proceedings. These families are willing to engage, to make alternative arrangements and to do whatever it takes to keep their family homes. Unfortunately, the Government is failing these families. When the Government passed the Personal Insolvency Act in 2012, we warned the Government that giving the banks a veto was a big mistake. We were right. When the Government passed the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act in 2013, we told the Government that this would lead to an explosion of repossession cases. We were right on this too. The number of family homes and buy-to-let homes in long-term mortgage arrears is rising. There are now more than 100,000 homes at imminent risk of repossession. That is 100,000 individuals and families under threat of homelessness. In light of this evidence, does the Tánaiste now accept that the Government's response to the mortgage crisis has failed? Will the Tánaiste tell these struggling and stressed-out families what the Government proposes to do to help them keep their family homes and the roof over their heads?

The Tánaiste

The Deputy will be aware that the number of people in negative equity and mortgage difficulties is falling. It is not falling as far or as fast as I would like, but it is decreasing. The Taoiseach and I recently met with the Insolvency Service of Ireland and with personal insolvency practitioners, PIPs, who arrange deals with the banks and other mortgage suppliers where there are difficulties with mortgages. There is a problem at the moment in respect of the banks; it is not simply the case that some of the debtors are not engaging. I listened to the stories of personal insolvency practitioners from the four corners of the country. They indicated that in many cases a great deal of work had been done on an arrangement for a family or an individual with mortgage difficulties, but at the last minute, or during the process, the banks failed to engage. This is a problem; there is no doubt about it.

I have previously stated that the bankruptcy period ought to be reviewed. We reduced the bankruptcy period to three years in the legislation establishing the Insolvency Service of Ireland. There may be merit in examining the case for reducing it even further. This would help bring both parties together where workable solutions are available, because the situation is extremely stressful and worrying for the families described by Deputy McDonald.

Mortgage difficulties are particularly acute in the upper Shannon basin. During the previous Government's tenure, this region was the subject of a significant amount of tax allowance schemes for building and development. A number of reports show that this region remains an area of particular concern, with many families in difficulty.

My Department has established tenancy protocols in Dublin and across the country. We are working in conjunction with voluntary organisations such as Threshold, Focus Ireland and Simon to assist tenants who are at risk of losing their homes. They will get advice from my Department and the various organisations mentioned. It is intended that they would be able to negotiate staying in their family home. This has worked out very successfully in a significant number of cases.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

My question and my remarks referred specifically to the fact that more than 100,000 homes are at risk of imminent repossession. This is the level of distress among residential mortgages and mortgages in the buy-to-let sector. Let us remember that buy-to-let properties are homes for many thousands of families across the State.

In 2012, we argued for a public insolvency service which would have the authority to make binding settlements in cases of mortgage distress. This system would be similar to those in other European jurisdictions.

The Government refused to listen to that argument at the time. Instead, with its eyes wide open, it gave the banks the power to dictate terms to distressed mortgage holders.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The eviction Bill.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That was a disgraceful decision and a huge mistake. We are now seeing the consequences of that mistake. The Government made it easier for banks to repossess family homes than in 2013. A combination of these factors explains why the banks now behave in an ever more aggressive manner with struggling homeowners, as the Tánaiste has acknowledged. It also explains why the number of repossession cases lodged with the courts has increased tenfold since 2013.

The Government's response to the mortgage crisis has obviously and patently failed. The Tánaiste acknowledged this morning that there are some difficulties. What she has not told us in concrete terms is what she proposes to do. Does she propose to remove the banks' veto? Does she propose to return to the 2012 legislation and correct the huge error that has affected very many distressed families, who I am sure have been in touch with the Tánaiste just as they have made contact with me? They are paying the price for the Government's mistake.

Does the Tánaiste accept that the approach to date has failed? Will she remove the banks' veto? Will we return to the 2012 legislation? Let us return to it, remove the veto and give people a fighting chance of holding on to their homes.

The Tánaiste

With regard to the Deputy's proposal on the banks, the important point from the perspective of everybody in the country, including people suffering from mortgage distress, is that we have banks that function properly as banks, give credit and also lend mortgages for new homes. There has to be balance, however. In developing a balanced policy, I assume Sinn Féin would want functioning banks that can lend credit to businesses.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

They are not giving credit.

The Tánaiste

We inherited a banking system that had collapsed and we had to address it. Figures from the Department of Finance show that, with regard to the six main banks, the number of people in arrears for more than 90 days has actually fallen very significantly, by over 15,500 accounts, by comparison with the figure for the start of 2014. This is a process that has to be worked through.

Deputy Peter Mathews

Creative accounting.

The Tánaiste

There are several difficulties. First, to get any settlement, there has to be engagement between the debtor and lender. There was a significant number of debtors who, to their detriment, were not engaging at all. It is vital that anybody with this kind of difficulty engage with his bank.

Deputy Brian Stanley

The banks have a veto.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Barry Cowen

Open the gates. The Government will not try to close them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please. We cannot hear.

The Tánaiste

We established the Insolvency Service of Ireland. The bankruptcy period and the settlements that were available for people-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

Ring Ivan Yates.

The Tánaiste

-----in debt or arrears were extremely confined in Ireland. We now have a range of measures in this regard. My Department runs, sponsors and finances the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, which deals with quite a number of difficult cases.

Deputy Peter Mathews

It tries.

The Tánaiste

What is needed is for both sides to come together and an agreement to be reached in which there is some payment and some attempt to address the debt. That can be done. As I stated, I met personal insolvency practitioners at some length, together with representatives of the Insolvency Service of Ireland. There is more that we can do. One step we can take is to re-examine the period of bankruptcy in the State. The periods in other countries are lower and that seems to be more successful in facilitating negotiations between the two parties to reach an agreement.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I asked a very specific question on the legislation of 2012, the banks' veto and the need to revisit the legislation to remove the veto. Could the Tánaiste state whether the Government intends to remove it?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I cannot hear all the answers. Has the Tánaiste anything else to add to what she has said?

The Tánaiste

There is no proposal to review that legislation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is fine.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Keep the veto; that is great.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

The issue I want to address this morning relates to education. We would all like school to be an enjoyable, stimulating, challenging and satisfying experience for young people, but that is not the reality for all young people. I refer in particular to those children and young people with behavioural, emotional and psychological problems. They include some children from the Traveller community, children from the new communities and children who live in chaotic families with dysfunction, violence or addiction. Certainly, all of those factors inhibit educational attainment.

What helps to either keep children in school or provide out-of-school work that will compensate or make up for their not being in school? The school completion programmes are central to this, because they target the young people whom I mentioned. The programmes' aim is to keep children in school at both primary and secondary level. There is a range of interventions: in school, out of school, after school and during holiday periods. There are also programmes that target parents. All of the interventions are action-oriented, child-centred and needs-based.

The school completion programme has been operating since 2002. Since 2007, however, those concerned have had to cope with cuts to their budgets, and they also have had to take up the shortfall from the cuts to the national education budget. They are taking on the provision of other services that were cut. An example is bridging the shortfall created by the loss of language teachers, visiting and resource teachers for the Traveller community and resource hours for children with special educational needs. The staff are also providing counselling and educational assessment. There have been cuts in the order of 30% since 2007. How can the staff be expected to provide the professional service they have been providing as well as doing the additional work? Where is the commitment to sorting out educational disadvantage and having a more level playing field in education?

Deputy Finian McGrath

And also keeping kids in school.

The Tánaiste

The Deputy will have seen that the Children's Rights Alliance, in its report earlier in the week, gave an "A" grade to the Government-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

They gave the Tánaiste an "F".

The Tánaiste

-----in regard to the development of child literacy and the national literacy strategy.

Deputy Robert Troy

An "F" for child poverty. Total and utter failure.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

In fact, it was recognising the significance and importance of the achievements across all schools around the country in respect of both literacy and numeracy. The Deputy will know that the report, which was published in the last month or so, actually shows the greatest improvement in 30 years in areas such as reading and writing in schools. That is a great achievement on the part of the schools, teachers, parents and pupils. It bodes very well for future success in education.

The Government has developed an area-based child poverty approach, which has been rolled out in a number of areas across the State. In those areas, as the Deputy knows, the school completion programmes are vital in encouraging children to stay in school and parents to become involved in their children's education. I am happy to say my Department has been involved in funding this. The aim is to bring the various organisations in any one area, including the school and the school completion programme unit, together with others and with agencies dealing with children in order to ensure a holistic approach to keeping children in school and helping them to achieve the best results in terms of their development.

As the Deputy will know from the budget, this year will see the recruitment of 1,700 additional personnel into our schools, split between primary and secondary, with approximately 700 additional teachers, 800 resource teachers and approximately 300 special needs assistants. As the moratorium on hiring is becoming a thing of the past, this is one of the first areas to be targeted for significant additional resources of the kind I believe the Deputy would welcome, in terms of the 1,700 appointments which will happen this year. Also, we made an announcement last week that the Deputy may have heard regarding small schools, which significantly improves the capacity of small schools in terms of staff and, therefore, the viability of such schools.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

I am glad the Tánaiste used the word "vital" about school completion programmes, and I believe some of the successes she outlined are due to the school completion programmes. At this point they are in the middle of a three-year funding cycle, which should continue until 2016, but at their national in-service in November they were told that is not the reality.

When they were with the Department of Education and Skills and with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, their funding was ring-fenced. They are now with Tusla, and their funding is not ring-fenced. I am asking that the funding be ring-fenced and that their work with the most difficult and challenging of young people in the schools be supported. Their presence in classes also encourages the learning of the other students, so they are providing a service for the other students in those classes also because we want to make the educational experience positive for everybody.

We know the co-relationship between early school leavers, low educational attainment and our prison population. I do not believe any Government has been proactive enough on prevention. The school completion programmes are a vital tool in preventing young people from leaving and encouraging them into school. I ask that that funding be ring-fenced and the school completion programme supported.

Deputy Finian McGrath

Hear, hear.

The Tánaiste

I have had the privilege in recent months of being in quite a few schools, both primary and secondary, but particularly schools where there are school breakfast clubs. Notwithstanding the fact that resources have been very tight, I have been able to bring the funding for school breakfast clubs up to €39 million. That has been rolled out around the country.

Deputy John Halligan

That is an indication of poverty.

The Tánaiste

As I am sure the Deputy knows, in many schools the school completion people are heavily involved in the establishment, running and overall success of the school breakfast club. It is a very good space for children to come in to school perhaps a half hour early, sit down with their peers-----

Deputy John Halligan

It is very sad to be lauding the success of a breakfast club for children who have no breakfast at home.

The Tánaiste

-----in a very social environment-----

Deputy John Halligan

There are 240,000 children in poverty.

The Tánaiste

-----and have breakfast. I am aware that some DEIS status schools have not applied for school breakfast clubs. In recent years I have made additional funding available each year for the school breakfast clubs. If Deputies are aware of schools that have not applied for funding, I would encourage them to talk to the schools about talking to the Department of Social Protection about getting the funding.

I hear what Deputy O'Sullivan is saying about the concerns of the staff in the school completion programme.

In regard to Tusla, I will certainly undertake some inquiries about what that change has meant. Change is often very difficult for people. I am not au fait with the details of the change but I do know the people on the boards of many school completion programmes. I know the people who are working in terms of the school completion programmes, and they do vital work that helps children to have that extra chance to do well in school. Ultimately, we hope to be able to help them go on to training, third level education or an apprenticeship.

It is well known that in terms of people who end up in the prison population their literacy and numeracy standards often leave much to be desired but, happily, in the recent report we have had the biggest improvement in 30 years in all of the tests that have been done. That is good for every child in this country.