Vol. 870 No. 2
6. Deputy Tom Fleming asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the implementation process for the report of the Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas and the specific Departments that will be involved; the funds available to implement this report in 2015; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6682/15]
I ask the Minister about the CEDRA report, the recommendations of which we need to get rolled out. We need to get them up and running in the near future. What is the position regarding the availability of funds to implement this programme?
The Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, published its report in 2014. The report contained 34 recommendations focussed on supporting the medium-term economic development of rural areas in the period up to 2025. I was appointed Minister of State with responsibility for rural affairs in July 2014, and in line with the recommendations in the CEDRA report, I immediately established the CEDRA Interdepartmental Group, IDG.
The IDG, which is made up of representatives from all relevant Departments, is currently working in a co-ordinated way to ensure that Departments' policy development and implementation fully consider the needs of rural communities. It is about maximising the financial resources already available for rural development and ensuring that these resources are directed in a way that best supports the sustainable economic development of rural areas. That group has a work programme and actions, and those actions are time-lined for 2015.
In order to maintain strong links with those in rural Ireland who are involved in or have a strong interest in the economic development of rural areas and communities, both the Minister, Deputy Kelly and I recently established an expert advisory group to monitor progress and provide advice in respect of the implementation of the recommendations in the CEDRA report. This group will be chaired by Mr. Pat Spillane whose determination and energy was critical to the CEDRA consultation and report process in 2013 and 2014.
On the Deputy's query regarding the funds available to implement this report in 2015, the intention was not to allocate a specific budget for the purposes of implementing the recommendations of the CEDRA report rather to ensure that all relevant stakeholders maximise the potential of available funding streams to support the economic development of rural areas. There is much-----
I will come back to the Minister of State. We are very much out of time.
This is the most important job, in Deputy Ann Phelan's role as Minister of State, to deliver on.
There is undue delay since the instigation of this report for which Mr. Spillane was appointed to go and carry out a complete investigation around rural areas. He held meetings in every corner of the country. He came up with some wonderful material. He listened to all concerned. Everybody got an insight into the real deep problems regarding the devastation of the countryside which has been largely ignored, except by the Leader groups. There is a void regarding Leader at present. There is a vacuum in the provision of funding for these rural areas and for all the entrepreneurs and various proposals that need to be developed.
This is like a report on a report. This is a continuation of pious platitudes and nothing being done. I ask the Minister of State and the senior Minister, Deputy Kelly, to get stuck into this. Deputy Kelly has deep connections in my county, Kerry-----
We are not going touring.
-----and he understands the problems.
Deputy Tom Fleming should get that greenway going, for God's sake.
I can assure Deputy Tom Fleming of my commitment to rural Ireland. I come from the rural parts that we are trying to energise. I have seen, not just since this Government was established but over the past number of years, where these rural communities were completely forgotten and left abandoned, and it is now my job to energise those.
The announcement on pilot schemes for the development of the rural economic development zones is imminent.
In addition, the funding that supports the CEDRA report's recommendations is from the rural development programme and particularly the Leader element of that. Some €250 million will support enterprise, innovation and job creation in rural communities. I can assure the Deputy that I am determined to energise rural communities.
I repeat that time is of the essence in this regard. We certainly need to get down to work immediately and deliver this programme, especially with the large number of investigations and examinations of all the problems and difficulties involved. The kernel of this situation is how much additional money will be allocated for CEDRA in order to roll it out in every rural community. What is the plan for the programme and how much funding will be available? There is a great need for proper financial supports to be put in place. Regional committees and sub-committees could work locally to implement this programme to the maximum advantage of those who require it.
I assure the Deputy that rural development programme funding will be examined in order to support the CEDRA report's recommendations. That report has been allocated a budget of €1 million for specific innovation projects. The roll-out of rural development zones is imminent and we will be working closely with local authorities on local development strategies. We must align all that funding to use it in a targeted fashion, thus supporting community enterprise and job creation. Time is of the essence for me also, so we will not be standing around. In the coming weeks, I will be accepting expressions of interest in the rural development programme. It is all coming into play.
7. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the extent of engagement he has had with community workers in Dublin Central, in relation to the Social Inclusion Community Activation Programme; his views on the stress, and difficulty, the new tender process is creating; and if he will assure them that the essential work they do will not be jeopardised. [9073/15]
I wish to ask the Minister of State about the extent of engagement she has had with community workers in Dublin Central in relation to the social inclusion community activation programme; her views on the stress and difficulty that the new tender process is creating; and if she can assure them that the essential work they do will not be jeopardised.
My Department's local and community development programme, LCDP, is the largest social inclusion intervention of its kind in the State. It is being implemented on a transitional basis until the end of this month, pending the roll-out of the new social inclusion and community activation programme, called SICAP, on 1 April this year.
In accordance with the public spending code, legal advice, good practice internationally and in order to ensure the optimum delivery of services to clients, SICAP is subject to a public procurement process. Tenderers have now been informed of the outcome of their tender and local community development committees, LCDCs, are in the process of issuing contracts to successful tenderers.
The public procurement process was a competitive process that was open to local development companies, other not-for-profit community groups, commercial firms and national organisations that could provide the services to be tendered for to deliver the new programme. Public information events were held at stage one to ensure that interested parties could apply. In addition, detailed weekly questions and answers were published and circulated to interested parties.
The SICAP programme design was open to consultation with representatives of the community and voluntary sector, who were afforded ample opportunity to feed into the programme framework. Indeed, groups within the sector have commended elements of the programme design with respect to the underlying community development principles and cross-cutting horizontal themes.
In the meantime, my Department has continued to ensure that LCDP services for communities in the Dublin Central area have been maintained in a co-ordinated manner through LCDP interim funding arrangements until 31 March. My Department has consulted with Dublin City Council to find a workable solution for transition thereafter.
I am glad to confirm that funding of some €0.6 million outside of, and separate to, SICAP is being provided to the Dublin central groups concerned, pending agreement with Dublin City Council and the local community development committee on an optimum delivery mechanism for the area. This funding is entirely separate to the €0.63 million which is being provided to the Dublin Central area under SICAP.
I thank the Minister of State for her reply. What is happening for Dublin Central is welcome news. However, a meeting with the Minister, who could have listened directly to those involved without giving any commitments, would have eased some of the stress and difficulty they have been going through for the past few months.
I would reiterate that the areas they are dealing with have higher than national average unemployment figures, as well as bigger numbers of lone parents and disadvantaged families. In addition, there are significant areas of poverty and deprivation. We have massive housing issues because huge numbers of people are living in local authority or private rented accommodation. We also have open and blatant drug dealing on the streets. Community projects are dealing with those issues as they arise. What is happening for Dublin Central is welcome but it could mean job losses in other areas. It is regrettable that the experience of community workers in other areas could be lost. How long is funding guaranteed for the new programme?
Funding begins on 1 April with the roll-out of SICAP. I have met with the public representatives concerned, but when one is doing a tendering process it is not possible to meet directly with those who will be involved in the process. We have been through these situations before and I know the hiatus that occurs. I also know all about the uncertainty, particularly when one is dealing with communities some of whose representatives may not have great expertise in the tendering process. I understand the concern it causes. I have met with officials almost daily to take on board the concerns about these projects. The Dublin area is particularly complex but the Deputy can be assured that the Department and the Ministers are there to examine issues that might arise outside the tendering process. We have provided funding for particular projects of special concern, so we are certainly taking those concerns on board.
The inner city did not have a partnership, so it was in a different situation from other areas. There are still concerns that community development is going out to tendering and is being privatised, so there is a danger that all the expertise could be lost. While we all accept we must get value for money, community development projects and programmes cannot just be economically led, they must also be led on the basis of social justice.
Will there be unnecessary levels of bureaucracy with the new process? The projects are under considerable strain with the services they are providing to lone parents, including affordable child care, second-chance education, and training. They could do without the many levels of bureaucracy, as is happening in other areas.
The big concern about the tendering process was that private companies could come in and win the tenders, but that did not happen. Some 44 of the 50 companies won the SICAP programme. I take the Deputy's point on the Leader partnership in Dublin. We are working with county councils under the new LCDC structure to see how we can address the concerns of people who do not fit into the SICAP area. We will have to deal with those matters as they arise. That is the only way we can do it.
8. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will reassure tenants that their landlords, including local authorities, are not going to become debt collectors for Irish Water; and, in particular, if he will provide assurances that additional charges will not be added to local authority tenants in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9077/15]
In the past few weeks Ms Elizabeth Arnett, spokesperson for Irish Water, has indicated that it has been cleared by the Data Protection Commissioner to seek the names of tenants from private landlords and local authorities to pursue people for the non-payment of water charges. Will the Minister confirm that this is the case and that landlords and local authorities will become debt collectors and boot boys for Irish Water? When can we expect legislation from the Government on this issue and the mooted plans to get people to pay?
Since 1 January 2014, Irish Water has statutory responsibility for all aspects of water services planning, delivery and operation at national, regional and local levels. The occupier of a property is liable to pay domestic water charges and legislation provides that the owner is the occupier, unless the contrary is proven. Irish Water is providing landlords with the opportunity to prove they are not the occupier by providing the tenant’s name or tenants' names. I am sure the Deputy has heard and seen the various advertisements on radio and television in this regard. This will allow Irish Water to contact a tenant to complete the registration and bill him or her. The tenant will have to register with Irish Water to avail of the water conservation grant or have lower charges than the default capped charge, €260, where he or she is a single adult occupant or his or her metered usage is less than the maximum charge.
My Department is consulting the local government sector, social housing providers and landlord and tenant representatives in the course of drafting legislation to give effect to measures proposed for tenants and unpaid water charges. Further details of the modalities involved will be available on publication of the draft legislation following Government approval and the completion of the necessary consultations with relevant representative organisations. It is important that consultations be held with the various organisations involved. Once they are concluded, I will firm up the dates for the ensuing legislative process.
I love all the gibberish from the Government such as “multifaceted”, “sustainable”, “front-loading”, “pent-up demands” and “modalities”.
The Deputy is good at gibberish himself.
It is anything but a straight answer. It is all gibberish, with no clear-cut answers.
Since the Minister referred to the advertisements, will he enlighten us on how much Irish Water is spending on them? How much is it spending on public relations companies? How many public relations consultants has it employed? That is another expense leeching off the crippled taxpayer.
After all the multifaceted, sustainable and front-loaded consultation, what is the Minister proposing to do about this matter? A massive demonstration will take place on 21 March which will put to bed the notion that the campaign against water charges is declining. There will be tens of thousands of people on the streets. Many of them, the ones who cannot pay, not just those who will not pay, will be council tenants and people living in private rented accommodation on low incomes who already cannot pay bills. They want to know if the Government will have landlords and local authorities acting as boot boys, demanding with the threat of pay-ins, that they pay the hated water charges.
Perhaps I am a late developer in using all of this flowery language in the Chamber.
The Minister is not bad at the expletives.
The Deputy is not too bad himself.
But I do not use them in the House.
I did not have the privilege of receiving a private education like Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett and his colleague sitting beside him, Deputy Paul Murphy.
They are the Minister’s words. I took them from his speech. I wrote them down as he said them.
I had to do with the Christian Brothers educating me, as they did fantastically. The Deputy is well aware of the penalties in place for those who do not pay the €30 or €60 in water charges. They have been trashed out enough times across the floor of the Chamber. For those who will continue not to pay, it is not right to insinuate that local authorities will become boot boys in any way. As the Minister in charge of local authorities, I find that charge inappropriate and unfair. The legislation, following consultation, will be drafted, put to the Government and brought before the Houses. It is as simple as that.
When it has been concluded.
When the taps are turned off.
I wrote down the flowery words used by the Minister as he spoke them.
The Deputy will get an A for that.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It is unbelievable. It is this flowery gibberish that glosses over the straight answers the people want.
Of course, the local authorities do not want to act as boot boys. They were rifled for all of their assets which were then handed to Irish Water. Does the Minister intend to make the local authorities and private landlords the boot boys of Irish Water in demanding payment, possibly through increasing rents or whatever other methods they will be asked to deploy against hard-pressed tenants to collect the ill-gotten gains of Irish Water? What is the Minister’s proposal in that regard? We know that landlords and the local authorities do not want to do it. We also know that people do not want to pay these hated charges.
The Deputy, however, has no solution.
Being straight with the Deputy, I do not intend to make anyone a boot boy for Irish Water. Is that not direct enough?
That is what they will be when collecting for Irish Water. What about the recent advertisements and the public relations consultants?
They are matters for Irish Water. The Deputy cannot expect me to come into the House and know the exact cost of every single advertisement placed by Irish Water.
The process will be that consultation will take place, the legislation will then be brought to the Government and before the Houses, like in all other circumstances. Decisions on the mechanisms to be put in place to ensure people will pay their bills - everyone must be treated the same - will also be put through this House. This will be the process in the current discussions. When the decisions are made, I will bring the mechanisms before the House. That is straight up.
Will the Minister be straight up and give us the date when this will happen?
We are in the middle of the consultation process.
9. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will report on meetings or contacts he or his Department has had with private landlord representative bodies and local authorities concerning the payment of water charges by their tenants; and the legislative changes or arrangements he is considering on the matter. [9101/15]
My question is along the lines of the last one. The only straight answer we received to that question was that legislation would be brought before the House. That was not much of an answer. We could have that answer ourselves.
Irish Water is providing different information for the Minister. In briefings it claims legislation will be introduced to provide in concrete terms that if tenants do not pay after one year, landlords will be able to collect the bill, plus fine, from tenants’ deposits and that councils will be able to attach them to local authority tenants’ rents. Is that the Government’s intention? It is what Irish Water thinks is the Government’s intention. How can the Minister claim that this means everyone will be treated equally? It will not. It is discrimination against tenants, be they private or council, as such punitive measures cannot be taken against those who own their own homes.
Since 1 January 2014, Irish Water has statutory responsibility for all aspects of water services planning, delivery and operation at national, regional and local levels. It is the occupier of a property that is liable to pay domestic water charges and legislation provides that the owner is the occupier unless the contrary is proven. Irish Water is providing landlords with the opportunity to prove that they are not the occupier by providing the tenant’s name. This will allow Irish Water to contact the tenant to complete the registration and bill him or her.
I do not understand why the Deputy cannot comprehend the following. We are in the process of ongoing consultations on this matter, but the Deputy wants me to stick my neck out and pick a date for when this will happen.
I would be subject to more criticism by the Deputy if I was not giving this level of detail. There are many options available to us, some of which the Deputy has outlined in his comments on Irish Water. While every aspect is being looked at, it is clear that what we put in place will not be punitive. There will be many options for people to pay their bills. There will be easy pay options for amounts as low as €5 and they will be able to go through all of the different options in using Payzone outlets, An Post and many other mechanisms.
Is there a no-pay option?
There is no intention to be punitive in how Irish Water will collect payments. Let us be straight that the user has to pay, that tenants will have to pay and that the mechanism by which they will pay will be brought before the Houses following the consultation and having gone through the Government. That is the simple process which always happens.
The Minister should be straight about whether he agrees with what Irish Water states in briefings to Deputies, that it is most likely that private landlords will be able to collect the money for bills, plus fines, from deposits, while councils will be able to attach them to rents. Does the Minister agree with this? Is that the way he sees it in pursuance of non-payment by tenants? He can outline all the options he likes and make it really easy for people to pay, but the indications are that they will not. Only 17% of tenants have registered with Irish Water. The Minister has used the overall figures to suggest there will be a high level of non-payment and the corollary must be that tenants are not going to pay water charges. They have faced massive increases in rents and are often low paid workers who simply cannot afford to pay water charges. They understand that - there is a mass protest on 21 March - non-payment will defeat water charges. If the Minister is in favour of what Irish Water states is most likely to happen, will he admit that it is punitive? Tenants who already face bullying by landlords, increased rents and very difficult situations are faced with having the money to pay water charges stolen from their deposits.
The Government will decide what legislation is needed and the options that will be used to ensure parity and that people will pay their water bills. The options as referenced by the Deputy are among the many potential ones that could be utilised, all of which are under discussion, with various others. We have listened to many of the representative bodies, including tenant and landlord organisations, and are taking on board all issues raised. Obviously, organisations across the board will have different items to which they will want to point and it would be wrong of us not to take their views on board. When we have made definitive decisions, they will not be punitive in any way, shape or form. The Deputy might want to keep using that word to claim a potential victory, but I am quite satisfied that the options that will be presented to tenants in rented and local authority accommodation and all other strata of society as regards parity in paying their bills will be fair. Well over 66% of people have signed up, a figure the Deputy does not like to hear, but that is the simple fact.
The Minister was so happy about registration levels that he said it was, all of a sudden, a soft deadline. Senator Lorraine Higgins famously declared on "Morning Ireland" that it was not a "drop dead" deadline. Such is the level of success in the Minister's registration rates that he has now gone for a fourth deadline. I do not think this speaks to his confidence in the level of registration.
If it is not going to be punitive, does the Minister agree that there should be no discrimination against tenants and no ability to rob money from their deposits which clearly are paid for a particular purpose? There are cases of tenants being bullied into registering to pay water charges. Will the Minister make it very clear that no tenant should face punitive action from his or her landlord? Any threat of eviction, for example, would be entirely wrong in a case of non-registration by a tenant. That is a matter between the tenant and Irish Water. If there will be no penalties until July 2016, they can safely and comfortably join the boycott.
The Deputy seems to have a pre-supposed idea that he can tell people what they will or will not do in the future and that they will actually listen to him.
He has a megaphone for that.
The majority of the people do not listen to Deputy Paul Murphy and have signed up. Is he not aware of this? He seems to have a pre-supposed idea that people are going to continue to listen to his waffle and misery that he keeps throwing out with his megaphone.
Is that part of the Minister's work?
The simple fact of the matter is that people are voting through their registrations. The volume registering represents a majority.
Only 17% of tenants have registered.
Wait one second. We are satisfied that the number of tenant registrations is on the increase and the process under way with Irish Water will deal with the matter. Everything will be done fairly. Despite the Deputy's desire and wish to use such eloquent language, nothing will be done in a punitive way in any way, shape or form. As I said before, I did not have the value of a private education like Deputies Paul Murphy and Richard Boyd Barrett.
Why is the Minister using all of the flowery language?
Everything will be done in a fair and balanced way to ensure everybody makes a contribution, which is only appropriate.
There will be a final supplementary question from Deputy Brian Stanley whom I ask to be brief.
In respect of Question No. 16 which is very similar to these two-----
We are on Question No. 9.
What happens where there are multiple tenants in a property? What happens to the so-called water conservation grant where there are a number of tenants over the course of a year? I know of apartments in which there have been three tenants in the past year. Who will receive the water conservation grant in that case?
If there are multiple units in a complex or house, they can all apply for the water conservation grant. If there have been multiple tenants in one unit, whoever has paid the bill may apply for the grant.
That will not go down very well.
