Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Mar 2015

Vol. 872 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Jobseeker's Allowance Eligibility

Deputy Áine Collins

I thank the Minister of State for taking this issue, which has arisen in my constituency. I am sure the position is the same across the country. It concerns lone parents with a child or children over seven years of age, who may already be working 19 hours per week, and will now be disadvantaged by €80 per week.

The intention has been to ensure that lone parents do not become trapped in a cycle of long-term unemployment. I agree that we should encourage parents to go back to work or education. Having been a lone parent myself for many years, I know the challenges they face. Unfortunately, however, as a result of doing something positive like undertaking training or obtaining work, those parents will now be at a financial disadvantage.

I would like the Minister of State to ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection to consider a transition period for working lone parents. Those to whom I have spoken are all mothers who are affected by this issue. If they have taken out a loan to get a car or do up a house, they feel they can no longer continue to work because they will be financially disadvantaged through child care costs and other outgoings. Therefore, the loss of €80 per week is a huge issue for them.

We knew this change was coming down the tracks but, like everything else, one only pays attention when it happens. Such lone parents now find themselves in a position whereby they will be seriously disadvantaged. I am suggesting the introduction of a two-year transition period for people who are already working part-time. I agree that we should encourage people to upskill and prevent themselves from falling into the trap of long-term unemployment, which has happened to many people over the years.

I am asking the Minister of State to re-examine this matter because people will be unfairly disadvantaged as a result of the change. A transition period would allow for the payment of the full amount for a year and a half amount later. We have done this for all the other service changes that have been introduced, but the manner of this payment's delivery is a blunt instrument. I am concerned by the negative impact it will have on lone parents, particularly women, and their children.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Ann Phelan)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue and affording me an opportunity, on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, to provide the Dáil with a response.

The jobseeker's allowance, JA, transitional arrangement was introduced in June 2013 in order to support lone parents with young children affected by the age reforms. Customers who have a youngest child aged under 14 years, and who continue to parent alone, are entitled to the jobseeker's allowance transitional arrangement. These customers are exempt from the jobseeker's allowance conditions that require them to be available for, and genuinely seeking, full-time employment. They can work part-time without restrictions - for example, mornings only - and still receive the jobseeker's allowance transitional payment, subject to a means test. They also have access to the Department's Intreo services and to related supports to enable them to become job-ready and-or to find employment.

The jobseeker's allowance transitional arrangement allows this cohort of customers to balance their caring responsibilities and significantly reduces their requirement for child care. The exemptions from the full jobseeker's allowance conditions remain in place until their youngest child reaches 14 years of age, at which point, should they continue to claim the jobseeker's allowance payment, they will be subjected to the full jobseeker's allowance conditions - be unemployed for at least four days in seven, and be available for and genuine seeking full-time employment.

The main barrier to employment for lone parents is access to affordable child care. The JA transitional arrangement takes account of the specific caring responsibilities of these individuals by permitting them to remain at home and to take care of their children, while at the same time also enabling them to work part-time without restrictions - for example, during mornings when their children are at school - subject to a means test. This effectively reduces their child care requirements and offers support to lone parents to remain attached to the labour market, thereby allowing them to maintain their skill levels and improve their chances of eventually moving into full-time employment.

For customers who are in part-time employment of less than 19 hours per week, if they can increase their working hours to a minimum of 19 hours per week, they can apply for the family income supplement, FIS. Once eligible for the FIS payment, they will also become entitled to the recently introduced back to work family dividend. This is the best option financially for these customers. The dividend allows customers to retain the child proportion of their welfare payment, which equals €29.80 per week per child, up to a maximum of €119.20 per week for four children, for two years, with full payment entitlement in the first year totalling €1,550 per child and a 50% entitlement in the second year totalling €775 per child. The dividend thus incentivises customers to move into employment or self-employment.

For customers working part-time whose youngest child is 14 or over they can claim JA subject to full conditionality. If a customer is working more than three days a week and under 19 hours per week, they will not meet the scheme rules for either JA or FIS. The following options are open to them, to increase their hours to a minimum of 19 hours a week to claim FIS; or re-arrange their working hours over three days per week.

If customers are unable to meet either the JA or FIS scheme rules, and if they continue to have an income support need, they may have recourse to the supplementary welfare allowance, SWA, scheme. The Department of Social Protection is actively engaging with lone parents who are affected by the ongoing reforms to the OFP. This means that lone parents who are on a jobseeker's payment can access the full range of employment, educational and training supports available to improve their skillset and move towards sustainable employment.

Deputy Áine Collins

I thank the Minister of State for her comprehensive answer. As I said, I welcome these changes which are important for parents, particularly women. I also appreciate that the family income supplement scheme is available.

There seems to be an issue where people have been working all along for 19 hours a week. The difference between their existing entitlements and what the new entitlements allow them is a net effect of €80 per week. That is a lot of money to any home, but particularly where there is only one income and one parent. It is having a detrimental effect on those cases.

We want to make work pay and to ensure that people continue to work, increase their skills and maybe in a few years become able to go into full-time work. What we have done for this cohort of people is drive them out of work because they would be better off on full unemployment benefit than what they are on now with this new scheme. There seems to be a loophole or gap in what we have designed, which I am sure was not the intention. Now that we are made aware of it, I ask the Minister to re-evaluate it.

I can provide some real-life examples to the Minister that will demonstrate that the family income supplement does not cover it. It does not fall under this dividend scheme to which the Minister of State referred. With all due respect to the supplementary welfare officer, nobody wants to be going in every week saying they cannot live. They just want to continue with their commitments where they may have a mortgage, a repair loan or even a car loan. I am concerned that the result of this may be the thing we wanted to prevent in the first place.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I note the Deputy's concerns and reiterate that the Department of Social Protection is actively engaging with lone parents who are affected by the ongoing reforms. Lone parents who are on jobseeker's payments can access the full range of employment, educational and training supports available to improve their skill set and move towards sustainable employment. The positive impact of this incentive has been evident from the increase in new applicants for family income supplement, FIS, which we have seen since 2013 when the reforms commenced. On foot of the one-parent family payments which have been implemented to date, many lone parents have increased the number of hours they work in order to qualify for FIS. Individuals who are due to transition off the one-parent family payment scheme from 2 July will now have the additional incentive of the back to work family dividend, which further improves the incentive for the majority of lone parents to avail of employment opportunities. I assure the Deputy that we will ask the Tánaiste to take a look at her examples.

Crime Levels

Deputy Niall Collins

I have been raising the situation regarding crime in Dublin for some time in this House. I think it is fair to say the situation cannot be described as being under control - in fact, it is bordering on being completely out of control. It is not Niall Collins or the Fianna Fáil Party that has been saying this - I have been echoing what people have been saying to me who were making those statements from an informed position. The situation is out of control on a number of levels. We have a gangland problem in the capital associated with serious international criminality and all that flows from it. The situation continues down through the various levels of crime to petty crime, which impacts people every day of the week.

Unfortunately, the response from the Government has been denial. We cannot keep denying that there is a problem in the capital city. Part of the denial response has included the closure of Garda stations, for example in Whitehall and Stepaside, and the downgrading of the station in Santry. That impacted on the communities in those stations' catchment areas. The Government also continued the moratorium on recruitment into An Garda Síochána, which was brought in when this country faced a precipice in late 2008, right throughout 2011, 2012 and 2013. Eventually in 2014 we had a trickle of new recruits into An Garda Síochána.

If the Garda is to get to grips with the situation, the main resource needed is manpower, which it does not have at present. There are 12,799 gardaí in the force as of 1 January this year. That is significantly below the 13,000 that is the preferred level of this Government. Any day of the week, up to 500 gardaí are out sick for various reasons, and that is a reality we have to face up to. Today, there are 1,498 members of An Garda Síochána eligible for retirement and, in addition, there are up to 230 members of the force on an incentivised career break. I know that recruitment has started but we only have 300 in training and we need to see more of that.

I have also consistently raised the need for greater use of and recruitment into the Garda Reserve force. Many people have contacted me who want to become Garda reserves. They have applied online and their applications are sitting in the Public Appointments Service bureaucracy and going nowhere. They are out there and willing to contribute to their communities.

I make these points about Dublin on an informed basis because I have engaged in a series of public meetings. I have been to Ballyfermot and was in Drumcondra two weeks ago; I am going to Tallaght tonight and to Finglas next week. I am meeting people in their communities who have felt the effects of crime. They all say they need to see more gardaí on the street. They want a better response time and to see more done about anti-social behaviour. They also want to see issues like burglaries, which are continuing to rise, addressed. At the root of a lot of the crime faced by these communities is the problem of drugs.

The Irish tourist assistance service reported recently that up to 700 tourists per annum are affected by crime. They reported crimes against their persons, mugging, pickpocketing and theft of wallets and mobile phones. That is a damning indictment because every tourist who comes to this country is taking away a story of his or her experience. As a country that relies on tourism for employment and economic activity, we have to sit up and take note of what they are saying. In particular, we have to take note of associations like the vintners associations, the restaurants associations and traders associations like We Are Dublin Town in the city centre.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Olivia Mitchell)

We can come back to the Deputy, he will have another two minutes.

Deputy Niall Collins

We have been saying for a long time that we need to have a dedicated public order unit for Dublin city centre. I am rasing this again today because the agencies out there are asking for it. I ask for the Minister of State's response on this.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I thank the Deputy for raising this very important issue. I am speaking on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality who regrets very sincerely that she cannot be present for the debate this afternoon.

The Minister wishes to thank the Deputy for raising this matter for debate today. I think everyone in the House can appreciate the particular difficulty and distress caused to people who are unfortunate enough to become victims of crime while travelling abroad. The Minister shares the common concern to ensure that visitors to this country have a positive experience and, where a crime does occur against a tourist, that we provide as much support and assistance as possible.

As the Deputy will appreciate, policing strategy in Dublin city centre and elsewhere and the deployment of relevant Garda resources is a matter for the Garda authorities. However, the Minister is committed to supporting An Garda Síochána in providing a strong, visible policing presence throughout the country, to help reduce crime, including crimes committed against tourists.

The specific policing response to the incidence of crime in Dublin city is incorporated in the ongoing implementation of the Dublin city centre policing plan. This involves a high-visibility uniformed presence on key thoroughfares, as well as the use of undercover gardaí as appropriate. Gardaí are maintaining a particular focus on drug dealing and drug related crime, to which the Deputy has referred, in the city centre area. A number of targeted city centre policing operations are in place, including Operation Pier, which concentrates on the south quays and Temple Bar areas and Operation Spire which is focused on O'Connell Street and the north inner city. There is also a specific public order unit which operates on a reactive basis as the need arises.

The Minister is very much aware of the impact of crime and related anti-social behaviour in the city centre. In December last year, she met representatives of the Dublin City Centre Business Forum to hear their concerns at first hand. Crimes against tourists are of particular concern to many businesses in the city at a time when all concerned are redoubling their efforts to encourage tourism as an important part of the process of economic recovery. It is important, therefore, that the key agencies adopt a co-ordinated, cross-cutting approach to address not just the incidence of crime in the city but also many of the wider underlying societal issues. Clearly, these issues encompass far more than policing issues, and the context for finding solutions must, therefore, encompass a co-ordinated approach. This is precisely the approach that is being pursued in a partnership between Dublin City Council, An Garda Síochána, the HSE and the Dublin Region Homeless Executive. Important initiatives include a new multi-agency street outreach approach, which is being used to work with vulnerable and high-risk individuals, particularly having regard to substance abuse. An offender management programme is being piloted to address repeat offending in the Dublin city area. These measures, combined with the Government's initiatives to tackle homelessness, are helping to address the broader aspects underlining crime and anti-social behaviour in the city centre.

Unfortunately, it is a fact that in any city that attracts a large number of tourists, such as Dublin, there will from time to time be crime against tourists. For more than 20 years, the Irish Tourist Assistance Service, ITAS, has offered support and assistance to tourists who become victims of crime while visiting Ireland. ITAS is a registered charity with a voluntary board of directors representing tourism-related sectors. It is run by staff and volunteers. Since its inception in 1994, the service has assisted over 11,000 tourists. The service offers support and information to tourists in the immediate aftermath of a crime. It operates throughout Ireland and provides a helpline service offering information to tourists in the aftermath of crime. Practical assistance consists mainly of mediation and practical help to replace passports and travel documentation. The service organises money transfers when tourists have had their case or cards stolen. In an emergency, ITAS can arrange accommodation, transport and meals for stranded tourists.

The Minister would like to return to the core provision for policing and tackling crime. The budget provision for 2015 for the justice sector saw the first year-on-year budget increase since 2008, involving a total expenditure increase of €141 million, including a 68% rise in capital funding. Together with the resumption of Garda recruitment since September last year, this clearly underlines the Minister's commitment to support An Garda Síochána in tackling crime in all its forms, working in partnership with other agencies and communities.

Deputy Niall Collins

I would like the Minister of State to extend to the Minister for Justice and Equality an invitation from me to accompany me and representatives of the Dublin business associations to take a walk in Dublin city centre to see at first hand the issues that arise. I acknowledge that the Minister met some of the representatives but I believe that stepping on to the streets to see circumstances at first hand will go a long way towards informing everybody about the extent of the crisis.

I referred to recruitment. If we are to take anything from this debate today, it ought to be that there should be a stepping up in recruitment. Three hundred new recruits will not fill the gap but only increase the strength from 12,799 to above 13,000. Some 1,498 members of An Garda Síochána can retire today. What drives people mad is that over the years of the moratorium, which the Government presided over, recruitment to the Defence Forces continued. The Defence Forces were recruiting while there was no recruitment in An Garda Síochána. People cannot understand that and nor can I. It did not make sense.

Unfortunately in this town, much crime is linked to drugs. The Government has failed the businesses, communities and those who work in Dublin city centre by its failure to implement the national drugs strategy. There has been a huge failure on the part of the Government to live up to its responsibility. We need a dedicated Minister responsible for drugs who will prioritise in government the tackling of drug addiction and the fallout therefrom.

The increases in burglaries, pickpocketing and thefts against the person across this city and all the other crime can be linked to drugs. There are 10,000 people receiving methadone treatment in this city and not far from it. They are not receiving any rehabilitation or being put on any avenues to get off drugs. That is a problem. They are involved in crime and repeat offending, all to feed their drug addiction. The Government needs to take seriously the lack of priority accorded to the national drugs strategy. This would tackle the root of the problem rather than trying to contain it with methadone and some of the associated treatments. The latter will not work. We have got to tackle the problem at the source.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I will ask the Minister to respond directly to the Deputy's invitation to go on a walkabout. Crime and drug dealing in the city centre have not been peculiar to the term of this Administration. The centre of our capital city is important not only to those who live there but also to the many who work, shop and enjoy their leisure time there. It is also of importance from a tourism perspective. The Minister shares the general concern that every effort be made to promote a safe and welcoming environment in the city centre. Consequently, she supports the continuing collaboration of the Garda Síochána and other State agencies, working in partnership with business and community interests to make the city centre safe and welcoming for all. The Government will continue to provide the best possible support to the Garda Commissioner to respond effectively to the range of policing challenges in Dublin city and elsewhere throughout the country.

Social Inclusion and Community Activation Programme

Deputy Seán Kyne

I welcome the Minister of State to the House to debate this issue. The Government has initiated a process to establish the local community development committees, LCDCs, one of which was established in Galway. Last September, the LCDC in Galway met and had to make a decision on whether to allow one, two or more than two lots for the county. It decided that there would be one lot for the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, contract for the county. Subsequently, there were attempts to have this decision reversed. All the Oireachtas Members from Galway West, including my colleague Deputy Derek Nolan, Senators from the constituency and all the councillors representing the Connemara municipal district requested the LCDC in Galway to reverse the decision and allow for two lots, or allow a separate lot for the Connemara area, which is a distinct region separate from the rest of the county. One has to go through the Galway city local authority area to reach the rest of the county. The reversal did not happen and a contract was subsequently issued.

There is much concern in the locality, not least over the process. There were 19 people eligible to vote on the decision to allow one lot, but only five people made the decision because of certain people not turning up, conflicts of interest and the private and public elements of the process laid down. There is much concern in Connemara. FORUM Connemara has a great record of providing a service to that part of the community over 25 years. The community wants to know what options are now open to FORUM Connemara regarding the SICAP and whether the LCDC decision can be reversed. It is concerned about continuity of services. I appreciate that Galway Rural Development would have to continue services for the full county, but there is still a lot of concern. Ten jobs - five full-time and five part-time - are at risk, in an area where jobs are badly needed. They represent very valuable resources so there is great concern in the community. I do not know anyone in the Connemara area who is happy with the decision that has been made. Unfortunately, it has been made by Galway people on the LCDC.

I am not happy with the decision and I am wondering what the Minister of State and the Department will do to intervene.

Deputy Derek Nolan

We are in the midst of one serious mess in Galway at the moment. The results of what has happened, as Deputy Kyne has outlined, have really thrown the community sector, rural communities, the community in Connemara and the community in the rest of County Galway into total turmoil. No one in Galway wants this situation which has come to the fore. Everyone agrees on this point. Galway Rural Development, GRD, wanted two lots. FORUM wanted two lots. The Minister of State has been to Letterfrack and visited FORUM. She has seen the immense work carried out there to turn what was a very small rural town into a thriving community with so many different community projects. All of them are centred on a community approach of which FORUM is an element.

I know there are things happening to do with judicial reviews and so forth. However, we need to take a step back and look at this mess. No one foresaw it leading to such difficulties. Staff in FORUM and staff in Galway Rural Development are terrified about losing their jobs and communities across Galway are upset. The solution is to find some way for the Department to cut out the legal process and the need for people to go to court. The Department needs to say that two lots are ideal in this situation. This is what both companies would have wanted originally and this is what the citizens and residents of Galway want. They want two companies to allow this to happen.

There may be ways we can do this. Could we allow subcontracting between the two companies or for funds to be transferred in another way? Could we redo the lot again? We need to look at all kinds of options. This is the only way out of it. If someone had been vying for this situation and saying it was a good idea, then the Minister of State could say there is an argument. However, there is no one in County Galway saying that what is happening now is the right way to go. Everyone says it is wrong. Everyone says that FORUM has an excellent record and that Connemara and the east and the west of Galway need that separate independent unique voice which works so well and knows the community. If we can find a way through this without delaying and getting involved in technicalities, let us do it now. Let us put these people and the communities at ease once and for all.

Deputy Ann Phelan

The proposals outlined in Putting People First: Action Programme for Effective Local Government seek to position local government as the primary vehicle of governance and public service at local level leading economic, social and community development, delivering efficient and good value services and representing citizens and local communities effectively and accountably. As part of the programme of reform of local government, local community development committees, LCDCs, have been established in all local authority areas. These committees, comprising public-private socio-economic interests, will have responsibility for local and community development programmes on an area basis including the social inclusion and community activation programme, or SICAP as the programme is commonly known. They will develop, co-ordinate and implement a more coherent and integrated approach to local and community development than heretofore with the aim of reducing duplication and overlap and optimising the use of available resources for the benefit of citizens and communities.

In accordance with the public spending code, legal advice, good practice internationally and in order to ensure the optimum delivery of services to clients, SICAP was subject to a public procurement process, which is in its final stages. In stage one, joint applications were encouraged and organisations of varying sizes, for example, smaller organisations working in consortia with larger organisations, were invited to submit joint applications. The closing date for stage two, invitation to tender, was 19 December 2014. Tenderers have now been informed of the outcome of their tender and local community development committees are in the process of establishing contracts with the successful tenderers. Following contract signature, Pobal will publish a contract award notice in the Official Journal of the EU and on the eTenders website.

LCDCs have managed and implemented stage two, invitation to tender, of the SICAP tendering process. While my Department recommended that in order to reduce the administrative burden for each LCDC that it would be prudent to have one lot only for each LCDC, in some areas the decision was taken by the LCDC to divide the lot into smaller units. That was a decision of the LCDC concerned in each case. The LCDC is independent of the local authority in the performance of its functions. This independence is provided for explicitly in sections 49A(2) and 128B(8) of the Local Government Act 2001. Any decisions made by an LCDC when carrying out its functions are solely a matter for the LCDC. I am satisfied that the decision of Galway LCDC to tender on the basis of one lot was taken appropriately.

The primary focus of my Department is to ensure that the front-line services being supported, particularly those focused on the needs of the most socially deprived communities, are protected, given the need to ensure best value for the scarce resources available. I am confident that the new programme will continue to provide key supports to those most in need in our communities in all local authority areas throughout the county and country.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I thank the Minister of State for her response. While she states that she is satisfied that the decision of Galway LCDC to tender on the basis of one lot was taken appropriately, unfortunately no one in Connemara feels that the decision is serving them. It is certainly not putting them first. The basis of this programme was to put people first. The people of that region of north Connemara have not been put first by the decision of the Galway LCDC. Herein lies the crux of the issue: how do we solve this? As pointed out, no one in Galway is happy with the decision. Although we have gone down a legal route, I ask that the Minister of State's Department and Pobal would work with the winning tenderer, GRD, and FORUM to see if there is any process or mechanism within the law to reverse this by consent. We have to work together for the good of the county to make the best and most appropriate decision, which is to have a separate lot for the Connemara area. Will the Minister of State examine whatever methods are available within her Department or within Pobal to make this happen?

Deputy Derek Nolan

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Aire Stáit. I appreciate this is what the Department is telling the Minister of State and it is probably accurate. However, will the Minister of State use her offices in a manner broader than the remit suggested in the answer today? Will she examine the situation and have her Department contact the county council and some of the county councillors, Galway Rural Development and FORUM in order to realise and to understand that there is not a single stakeholder in Galway who is happy with the decision or what is happening, or who is happy that the situation as it is unfolding will work for the communities.

We need to try to recognise that what happened in the LCDC happened at a time when people were probably not as focused as they ought to have been on the issue. Sometimes decisions get made, as we all know, in this House which the Government has got wrong. In this case, the decision was wrong. Will the Minister of State use her office and her Department as a way and means of bringing the stakeholders together to find a way forward? At first, the Minister of State should talk to these stakeholders and listen to them. She will hear the real and genuine concerns from all sides. Will she use her office to examine any possible avenue, be it negotiation, working with Pobal, subcontracting or retendering, to find a way to give Galway Rural Development its piece on the east of the county and FORUM Connemara the piece for Connemara and uphill on the west of the Corrib? This is extremely important. We need to ensure that we continue the vital services which currently serve this region and Connemara.

Deputy Ann Phelan

We must bear in mind that the tender process is a legal one which was open to everyone to submit an application. Having said that, I am very conscious that communities have been trying to get their heads around the LCDC structure, the changes and the alignment process, and that there are difficulties, both actual and perceived. I will ask my officials to contact both Deputies to see if we can sit down and examine possible ways to support the communities.

My foremost concern is that front-line services be delivered to those communities that need them. I will take the Deputy's concerns on board and ask my officials to get in contact with them to determine whether there is a road forward. There would be no problem with having a chat with anyone about finding compromise.

HSE Agency Staff Expenditure

Deputy Denis Naughten

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving me the opportunity to raise this issue. I also thank Minister for being present to take this important matter.

Approximately 400 social care workers in Galway and Roscommon are owed in or around €7.5 million by the HSE in unpaid wages dating back more than a decade. The HSE has acknowledged that it owes them this money and has been directed by the Labour Court to pay its debts, but the HSE is arguing an inability to pay.

The payment in question is the twilight premium - time and one sixth for the period between 8 p.m. and midnight - for social care workers or leaders in the Brothers of Charity Services in counties Roscommon and Galway and Ability West in County Galway. Both sets of staff have secured the payment dated from 1 January of this year. At a Labour Court hearing - I am sorry, it was a Labour Relations Commission, LRC, hearing - on 3 March, the HSE accepted that there was a legal entitlement to pay the money and that there was a liability in respect of historical arrears that had accrued to the social care workers and leaders, but asserted that it was not in a position to pay those arrears. Galway-Roscommon primary, community and continuing care, PCCC, handed back €6.5 million in respect of psychiatric services last year. Surely some of that money could have been used to pay these arrears.

What is frustrating for the staff is that the HSE has continued to pay its own staff the twilight premium in recent years. The HSE recently paid arrears to the social care staff of agencies in Dublin such as Home Again Traveller, Families Care and Cottage Home for Little Children, but it is refusing to pay the same arrears to social care workers and leaders in Galway and Roscommon.

Will the Minister intervene and direct the HSE to honour its commitment? In light of how it has paid its own staff the twilight premium and the staff of a number of organisations in Dublin their arrears, the same should apply to staff in Galway and Roscommon and they should get the €7.5 million that they are due in arrears without delay.

Minister for Health (Deputy Leo Varadkar)

I thank Deputy Naughten for raising this issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, who is on Government business elsewhere. I should clarify that this issue concerns conciliation conferences under the aegis of the LRC and not a Labour Court recommendation, as was suggested in the initial text of matter raised.

The unsocial hours premium payments of time and one sixth are known as twilight payments. Provision for their payment to nurses was introduced in 1999. Access to this premium payment was subsequently extended to other grades of staff, including social care workers. Costs arising from the introduction of these payments were to be met from within agencies' existing allocations.

The issue raised in this case relates to premium payments to social care workers at a rate of time and one sixth for hours worked after 8 p.m. until the end of their shifts. The matter was the subject of conciliation conferences under the aegis of the LRC last October and November. The latest engagement occurred on 3 March. The staff concerned are employed by the Brothers of Charity Services in Galway and Roscommon and Ability West, which is primarily based in Galway. They are not directly employed by the HSE.

At the LRC conciliation conference on 27 November, the HSE gave a commitment to actively pursue the provision of resources to the agencies in the context of the 2015 Estimates process so as to enable payment of the premium from 1 January 2015. I am informed that the payment of the twilight premium has commenced since 1 January but there remains a continuing issue of retrospective payments, as the Deputy mentioned. This is being pursued by the Impact trade union and was the subject matter of the latest LRC engagement on 3 March. The HSE has indicated that it is not in a position to consider any retrospective payment at this time and has advised that it is engaging in a broader national process to determine the overall extent of issues relating to the non-application of twilight premiums in sections 38 and 39 agencies. It is expected that this process will be finalised on 17 April. Together with the employers directly involved in Galway and Roscommon, the HSE has indicated a willingness to return to the LRC at that stage.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I thank the Minister for his reply. My difficulty is that arrears have been paid in sections 38 and 39 organisations in Dublin, namely, Home Again Traveller, Families Care and Cottage Home for Little Children. Why are we treating staff in Galway and Roscommon differently than staff in Dublin where the same liability applies and the latter had not traditionally been receiving the twilight premium? Where arrears have accrued, payment is being made to staff in Dublin but not to staff in Galway and Roscommon.

Will the Minister examine this situation? In fairness to the staff involved, they do outstanding work in sometimes difficult circumstances, particularly in recent years due to changes in work practices and resources. There has been a major shift in how they operate their services. We should try to meet this liability, given the fact that it is being paid in one part of the country. I urge the Minister to examine this issue and try to facilitate a resolution. By 17 April, there could be a clear programme to resolve the issue once and for all.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I am not an expert on this issue by any means but, as I understand it, there are people who are directly employed by the HSE and, separately, there are people who work for private companies, charities, voluntary hospitals and sections 38 and 39 agencies. The latter are not HSE employees. Those bodies are given money by the HSE on the basis of service level agreements and are supposed to provide those services within the budgets allocated to them. It may be the case that the bodies in Dublin mentioned by the Deputy decided to pay the arrears out of their allocations whereas, for whatever reason, the similar agencies in Galway and Roscommon decided not to do so. I do not know, but that is my best guess for why there is a disparity. However, this issue will be resolved through the LRC and its ongoing work. That is the best place for the issue to be resolved.