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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Oct 2015

Vol. 892 No. 1

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 42, statements on pre-European Council meeting of 15-16 October; No. 6, Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Dissolution) Bill 2015 - Second Stage (resumed); No. 15, National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2015 – motion to instruct the committee; No. 41, National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 43, statements on Building on Recovery, to be taken at 5.30 p.m. today, and the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 42 shall be taken immediately following the Order of Business and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall be made by the Taoiseach and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes following which the Dáil will suspend for 60 minutes under Standing Order 23(1); the proceedings in relation to No. 43 shall be taken at 5.30 p.m. today and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7.30 p.m. tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: the statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case and such Members may share their time, the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case and such Members may share their time, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes. Private Members’ business shall be No. 208, motion re Corporation Tax (resumed), to conclude at 9 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded.

Tomorrow’s business after Oral Questions shall be No. 15, National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2015 – motion to instruct the committee; No. 41, National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 44, Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Bill 2015 - Report Stage (resumed); and No. 1, Choice of Court (Hague Convention) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage.

There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 42, statements on pre-European Council meeting of 15–16 October, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 43, statements on Building on Recovery, agreed to? Agreed.

I call Deputy Martin on the Order of Business.

Yesterday, we voted through a request from the chairman of the banking inquiry, Deputy Ciarán Lynch, to extend the date for that inquiry to report until the end of January. I then asked the Taoiseach what I thought was a very reasonable question - to confirm if the House was to be dissolved before the end of the year. If a general election is called, the banking inquiry will never report and I believe the House should be apprised of that matter. It is reasonable that the House would have some certainty, having voted on this issue yesterday, as to whether the banking inquiry will report in January unhindered, in other words, that the report of the banking inquiry will not be undermined or prevented by the calling of a general election. It is very reasonable to seek clarity on that and, if necessary, we should have time to discuss it. It could not be more basic than that. Given all the time, effort and money that has been put into the inquiry, it seems extraordinary that the Taoiseach cannot give a straight answer as to whether it will definitively report in January on the basis that there will not be a general election before the end of the year. I would appreciate it, therefore, if the Taoiseach could, in a straightforward and upfront manner, give an answer to that simple and reasonable request.

Secondly, last night on Prime Time there were some harrowing stories and presentations by many families and relatives of people who lost their loved ones. In some cases they were murdered or killed. They were very genuine cases. As the Taoiseach knows, an independent panel of barristers was set up by the Minister for Justice and Equality to investigate these particular cases, including that of Mrs. O'Farrell who lost her son in an appalling situation. In another case, the family of Shane Tuohey outlined the circumstances of his death which, they would assert, were not investigated properly by the Garda. What emerged from the programme was deep dissatisfaction with the process to date in terms of the independent panel and the replies that quite a number of the families have received. I do not know whether the Taoiseach has seen the programme, but it would be worth his while watching it.

Other Deputies did not get in yesterday. I am trying to get everybody in, so would the Deputy put his question?

Is the Taoiseach aware of the depth of distress caused and the dissatisfaction articulated about how the independent panel of barristers is going about its work, which the Government oversees? Is the Minister of a mind to make a full report to the House in relation to it? Is the Minister or the Government prepared to set up independent inquiries into a number of these cases?

I am aware of the distress caused in these cases over many years. In fact, some of these cases came directly to the Department of the Taoiseach.

This is the only Government that has set up an independent investigation and analysis of all of these cases, over 200 in total. The Minister was very careful to have a person of appropriate experience look at all these cases objectively and communicate with the persons involved or their loved ones. The independent review was not put together as a commission of investigation or a commission of inquiry. Its purpose was to look at the allegations made and to make a determination on whether any further action was needed. It is important to note that it was open to the independent review mechanism to recommend any form of statutory inquiry into cases that it examined. Deputy Martin will be aware, because he gave some of them to me himself, that some of these cases are very complicated and go back over many years.

I reiterate that the Garda has fully complied with all requests for information in connection with the cases that were referred to the panel. Any suggestion that the panel did not receive full co-operation and full information is not accurate. The panel has provided recommendations to the Minister in all 320 cases and the Minister has accepted the recommendations of counsel in all cases. In order to ensure the probity and independence of the entire process from start to finish, the Minister for Justice and Equality requested the retired High Court judge, Mr. Justice Murphy, to undertake the task of overseeing the preparation of the letters of notification to ensure that those letters contained a fair and accurate reflection of the panel's recommendation. A total of 152 letters have issued to date. Some cases resulted in recommendations for further action, which the Minister has accepted, including referral to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and requesting a report from the Garda Commissioner in accordance with section 41(2) of the Act of 2005. The remaining notification letters will continue to issue over the coming weeks. It is understood that a number of these cases will result in significant further action, of which I am not yet aware. It is the intention of the Minister, on the completion of the process, to make a comprehensive statement of all the actions she has decided to take in line with the recommendations from counsel, and that will be discussed here.

I referred to the other matter Deputy Martin mentioned yesterday. The Chairman of the Joint Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis requested extra time from the Dáil to complete his report and the committee's report. The Dáil granted extra time until the end of January. That is normal business and a normal request. The two things that Deputy Martin has raised are entirely separate.

The Taoiseach says they are entirely separate.

How are they entirely separate?

We are not discussing this issue now.

I do not recall people standing in this position indicating the dates or otherwise of a general election. They are separate matters. The request that came from the Chairman of the committee was a perfectly reasonable and legitimate request and was granted by the Dáil.

On a point of order-----

No. There is no point of order. Deputy Adams is next.

The Taoiseach has said that we voted yesterday to extend the report.

It is not a matter for the Order of Business. Would you resume your seat, Deputy Martin? Deputy Adams is next. Thank you.

If we had known there would be a general election before the end of the year, we would not have voted that through.

Do not be clicking with your fingers either, Deputy Martin.

We would have wanted to committee to report. The Taoiseach is treating us like fools.

Would you please resume your seat? Thank you.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Martin, would you please resume your seat? Deputy, I am on my feet.

On a point of order-----

I am on my feet. Would you resume your seat? You know you are out of order. Deputy Adams is next. Thank you.

Hang on a second, a Cheann Comhairle-----

No, I will not hang on a second. I will not hang on a second. You hang on a second and resume your seat. Deputy Adams is next.

We do not know whether there will be-----

Deputy Adams is next. That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Of course it is a matter for the Order of Business. It is very basic. What is going on is outrageous.

It may be outrageous, but you can table a Parliamentary Question. Thank you very much.

I should table a Parliamentary Question about whether the banking inquiry will report? Are you serious?

Deputy Adams, please. Thank you.

We cannot be told that much. Is that correct?

A Deputy

Ask Deputy Peter Mathews.

It does not matter. I do not believe it. This place is unbelievable.

Sorry, Deputy Mathews. Would you please stay quiet? Deputy Adams is next.

It is entirely separate.

Do you want me to read out what is allowed under the Order of Business?

No, a Cheann Comhairle.

Then learn your Standing Orders and you will be all right.

I know them only too well.

Well, you do not display it.

Ceapaim go bhfuil Punch agus Judy fós beo anseo. Tá cúpla ceist agam on planning and rent controls legislation, the international protection Bill and the McMahon report ach, ar dtús, ba mhaith liom ceist a chur maidir leis an díospóireacht faoin Tuaisceart. Tá a fhios ag an gCeann Comhairle agus ag an Taoiseach go bhfuil mé ag cur na ceiste seo faoin Tuaisceart go rialta gan focal ar bith le fáil ón Rialtas, go háirithe ag an uair seo nuair atá cainteanna ar siúl i mBéal Feirste faoi na hinstitiúidí atá ann. Ba mhaith liom freagra a fháil ón Taoiseach.

I have another question on planning and rent controls. You will note, a Cheann Comhairle, that rents in Dublin are at boom-time levels and that the rent supplement is entirely out of touch with the rents being demanded. The rent supplement budget has been cut by €200 million.

What is the legislation, please?

There are also 1,275 children in homeless accommodation. At the weekend, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, an Teachta Kelly, told RTE that emergency legislation would be introduced to speed up planning. This is one of the serial announcements he makes on this issue. When will we see the Government's emergency legislation to tackle homelessness? Has the Government any plans to introduce legislation on rent controls or rent freezes?

Last June, the Taoiseach told me he would facilitate a debate on the McMahon report into the direct provision system. I grant that some aspects of this report are welcome, but overall it is a disappointing response to a very difficult humanitarian issue and to a direct provision system that has been widely condemned. We have seen tens of thousands-----

Sorry, Deputy. This is the Order of Business. It is about promised legislation. There are other Deputies who did not get to speak yesterday because there were votes. Would you please stick to the business before us - that is, the Order of Business, where we deal with the business on the Order Paper? Thank you.

I am simply trying to illustrate the urgency of this legislation.

You cannot raise other issues. I am sorry. There are other Deputies whom I have to look after as well.

That is fair enough. I know you will be as horrified as anyone else at the images of thousands of people in coffin ships-----

I understand all that, but it is not for the Order of Business. That is the only point I am making.

I have two points. When will the Taoiseach agree to an urgent, full and proper debate on the issue of refugees and on the State's response, including the McMahon report? Will the Government consider extending the humanitarian mission that the Naval Service is involved with beyond December?

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

When will the international protection Bill be published?

The international protection Bill will be published inside the next few weeks. A motion on refugees was agreed already. The McMahon report was received. Observations were made by all the relevant Departments on direct provision and so on. They have been received and are being assessed by the Minister. Obviously, there will be an opportunity to debate those here.

In the next number of weeks, I would suggest.

Deputy Adams raised the rent supplement issue. I have mentioned on many occasions that the opportunity exists for the Department of Social Protection to deal with each of these cases on an individual basis. However, all of these actions do not deal with the fundamental problem - that is, the supply of accommodation, particularly in this city. I hope to have a Cabinet meeting later this week to deal with a series of measures that will, I hope, address some aspects of the inadequacy of the housing accommodation and supply throughout the country, with particular reference to Dublin.

Third, labhair an Teachta Adams faoi dhíospóireacht maidir le cúis an Tuaiscirt. Tá mé toilteanach é sin a chur ar fáil ach tá a fhios ag an Teachta go bhfuil na díospóireachtaí ar siúl ag an bpointe seo. Ní dóigh liom go mbeadh sé oiriúnach díospóireacht a bheith againn faoi na nithe sin ag an am seo nuair nach bhfuil na díospóireachtaí idir na polaiteoirí sa Tuaisceart agus na Rialtais críochnaithe fós. Más gá, tá mé toilteanach an díospóireacht a bheith againn. Táim ag breathnú go géar ar an ábhar seo agus bím ag labhairt leis an Aire Gnóthaí Eachtracha agus Trádála chuile lá faoi.

Yesterday, when Deputy Martin raised the question of the new children's hospital establishment Bill, I could not hear the answer. Has the timeline been established for the passage of the Bill through the House and thereafter in respect of the hospital?

I refer to the road transport Bill, which aims to reduce the administration and associated costs of private road transport. Have the heads of the Bill been approved? Will it come before the House during this session? No. 96 is the health (transport support) Bill, which will offer some assistance for children with severe disabilities who cannot access public transport. Has it been approved and is it likely to come before the House at an early date?

No. 96 will probably be taken early next year. A great deal of work has taken place in respect of the Bill. The road transport Bill has not been approved by Government, although work is ongoing on it. A timeline for the national children's hospital was published, which involved planning permission being lodged and onwards. Of course, one can never speculate on the real outcome of that, because other matters might infringe on it. I will send the Deputy an updated timeline as produced by the board from the time it lodged planning permission to the estimated time of completion of the project.

I hoped to get this question in when the Minister for Justice and Equality was beside the Taoiseach. I wish to return to the issue of the Istanbul Convention, about which the Minister has spoken frequently. One wonders, given the current speculation about an early general election, whether the Taoiseach can state emphatically that the Government will sign the Istanbul Convention and bring it into effect.

We read in the press that there are suggestions that many Government Departments may require Supplementary Estimates. I refer to Tusla. Throughout the country, family refuges are suffering enormously because of inadequate funding. In my constituency, a project built using heavy capital investment is not fully open - two apartments remain closed because of a lack of funding.

Sorry, Deputy. There are other Deputies waiting to speak. That is not a matter for the Order of Business, by the way.

It is a question of whether-----

It is not a matter for the Order of Business, so please be quick. Thank you.

-----there will a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Children and Youth Affairs which would address these important issues.

Normally, Supplementary Estimates have to be presented before the budget. They are a matter for discussion between the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the relevant Ministers, speaking on behalf of their Departments. A number of Supplementary Estimates have been referred to, and obviously health is one of those. No decisions have been made as yet. I will take note of the point he mentioned.

On 25 September, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, indicated that he would seek Government approval to sign the Istanbul Convention in the coming weeks. It is a multi-annual action plan with timescales for implementation that was drawn up in consultation with other Government Departments and agencies in regard to implementing the small number of remaining actions required to enable Ireland to ratify the convention. I will update Deputy Ó Fearghaíl on the work that has taken place in respect of the few remaining items.

In order to ensure that providers will not operate below consistent patient safety standards, when can we expect the publication of the patient safety (licensing) Bill, and when will it to come before the House?

I do not have a date for the publication of the Bill. I will have to advise the Deputy of the work that has been done.

Chuir mé cheist ar an Aire Stáit, an Teachta McHugh, cúpla seachtain ó shin maidir leis an aersheirbhís go dtí Oileáin Árann agus ní raibh sé in ann ag an am freagra a thabhairt dom. Dúirt sé, áfach, go raibh seirbhís héileacaptair curtha ar cheall. Anois, tá sé á rá go mbeidh seirbhís go dtí Oileáin Árann ag Aer Árann. Ba mhaith liom díospóireacht a bheith ann maidir leis an gceist seo-----

You are way out of order.

Tá sé an-tábhachtacht. Ní raibh tuairimí muintir na n-oileán i gceist nuair a bhí an tAire ag caint-----

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

An féidir leis an Taoiseach aon eolas a thabhairt don Teach mar gheall ar seo?

No. You cannot talk about the Aran Islands on the Order of Business.

Will the Taoiseach reply to me, as promised last week, about when the wind energy guidelines will be published? I understand the export project is back on track and there is great concern and anxiety that we do not have robust legislation to deal with wind energy. Can the Taoiseach confirm to me, having consulted with his colleagues, when the guidelines will be published?

The Taoiseach said he would write to me about the tenant purchase scheme and update me as to when it would be published. I refer to the statutory instrument, which has yet to be published by the Department of Justice and Equality, that will facilitate local authorities in dealing with anti-social behaviour. Families living in local authority estates-----

All right, Deputy. There are other Deputies waiting.

-----are being harassed in an awful fashion. Local authorities have no mechanism to deal with such problems. They are waiting for the statutory instrument to be published by the Department of Justice and Equality. Can the Taoiseach indicate when that will be done in order that local authorities will have a free hand to deal with the issue appropriately?

In the past, local authorities were able to deal with cases of anti-social behaviour once a calendar of evidence had been built up. I will have to come back to Deputy Troy in respect of these matters.

They are waiting for the statutory instrument.

I do not know about the statutory instrument, but I will find out the information from the Minister for Justice and Equality. We are still discussing the question of the regulations in respect of wind energy and the tenant purchase scheme. I will advise Deputy Troy as soon as I have something worthwhile to tell him.

In light of the fact that the student support legislation is being extended to provide for SUSI grants for people living in direct provision who qualify, I ask the Taoiseach to include in that extension Irish citizens who have been working overseas as volunteers but do not qualify because they do not meet the residency criteria. Such people may not have the money to go to college on their return and are being discriminated against unfairly.

It is a valid observation, and I will bring it to the attention of the Minister.

In the context of the National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2015, there is a very serious threat to the future of Westport House, regarding which the Taoiseach and the late Senator Myles Staunton were involved in legislation. Is the Taoiseach planning any intervention in the situation around Westport House?

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

There is legislation.

What legislation?

The National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill.

There are two Bills, No. 1 and No. 2. Both are scheduled for early next year. I am aware of the complications in respect of the building the Deputy mentioned.

I have two questions. Irish Water has published its seven-year business plan. It stated in a presentation that it would raise €3 billion through borrowing. Clearly, this is unlawful, as the House passed the Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013, section 35 of which states that Irish Water can only have a combined debt of €2 billion at any given time. What does the Taoiseach propose to do? Does he propose to ask Irish Water to produce a plan that remains within the law of the State?

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. You know that.

It is. Is the Taoiseach seeking to amend the Water Services (No. 2) Act to allow Irish Water to raise additional debt? The rate was set at €500,000 and the current law states it is €2 billion. Is the Taoiseach intending to-----

Is there promised legislation?

-----amend the legislation to allow Irish Water to comply with the law?

My second question concerns a commitment in the programme for Government. The last time I asked the Taoiseach about the matter he said he would refer to the advice of the Attorney General. There is a clear commitment that no retired politician will get a political pension until the national retirement age. Many politicians are seeking to retire and many will be forced to retire when the electorate get their hands on them during the election, whenever that takes place. Is it the case that those who were in office prior to 2004-----

Sorry. There is no promised legislation in this area.

-----will still be entitled to a political pension as long as they reach 50 years of age or-----

Sorry, would you resume your seat? That is not on the-----

Will legislation be needed to bring forward the commitment that remains-----

This is about promised legislation.

-----in the programme for Government to bring this about?

Deputy McGuinness.

Sorry, with respect-----

No, there is no promised legislation. It is about promised legislation. I have to be fair to everybody. If I cut off one person, I have to cut off everybody if they are not adhering to the Order of Business.

A Cheann Comhairle, Irish Water has produced a plan that is unlawful at this point in time.

Pensions have nothing to do with the Order of Business-----

The question is-----

-----and Irish Water is not a matter for Dáil Éireann. It is a State company.

That shows the farce of Irish Water, that it is not a matter for Dáil Éireann.

Well, it is a State company. I am sorry. Deputy McGuinness.

The question is that we have a State agency which is producing a plan which is unlawful. Irish Water has stated in its report that there is a proposal before the Minister.

It is not a matter-----

Is the Government planning to introduce-----

There is no promised legislation in the area. Deputy McGuinness.

The question I have is whether the Minister is planning to introduce an amendment to the Water Services Act because in a presentation to me, Irish Water said-----

Is there legislation promised in this area?

-----it will raise the debt to €3 billion which is clearly unlawful.

Irish Water published a plan for investment of €5.5 billion-----

There is no legislation promised.

-----until 2021.

So it will remain unlawful in terms of its plan.

Please resume your seat.

Very lawful.

In view of what was said earlier on NAMA, the invitation stands for Deputy Wallace to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts and it would be helpful to the committee in view of a lot of the anger, frustration, secrecy and-----

I think you have made your point.

-----arrogance around NAMA. That stands. Regarding the six cases mentioned in "Prime Time" last night, will the Minister bring forward an interim report-----

We cannot discuss television programmes.

-----to give us an opportunity to deal with the confidence issue raised in the process? The Taoiseach raised the issue of Irish Water and discussed it earlier. Will he amend the legislation to ensure-----

No, the answer is-----

-----Irish Water comes under the control of the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Sorry, it is not in order. He knows it is not in order.

It requires legislation.

Irish Water is not a matter under promised legislation. Let us be fair to everybody.

It requires legislation.

Table a parliamentary question.

What is the progress of the public health (alcohol) Bill in light of the social health problems arising from the below cost selling of alcohol, the need to separate alcohol from other products and health labelling on products? We have a real problem with excessive drinking and binge drinking among teenagers, and cheap alcohol-----

We are nearly out of time.

I am anxious to have the Taoiseach's response.

There are other Deputies and we have only one minute left.

That might apply to a small minority of young people. The Bill, for Deputy O'Reilly's information, is scheduled for publication this session.

I note the Minister for Justice and Equality has brought before the Seanad legislation reforming the oldest profession. When will legislation reforming the second oldest and more powerful profession, the legal profession, appear? Is it intentionally being timed to fall with the Dáil? If it will not appear before the Dáil, will we at least have a commencement order for the Legal Services Ombudsman Act 2009? If not, is this motivated by a concern-----

Sorry, Deputy, thank you. Another Deputy wants to get in.

-----that speechwriting and financial contributions from the Bar to certain political parties might dry up?

Yesterday, the Cabinet gave authorisation to the Minister to continue drafting amendments for limited liability operations in the legal profession, and the Bill is scheduled to be completed by the end of the year.

When will the Government bring forward the one-year bankruptcy Bill on which Deputy Penrose has been doing huge work, as has the Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform? It is urgent.

I will have to give the Deputy a more accurate time on it. I am aware of Deputy Penrose's interest and work and the recommendations for three years or one year in some cases. I will advise Deputy Mathews.

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