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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 Nov 2015

Vol. 897 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Disability Services Funding

I raise the issue regarding L'Arche Kilkenny, which has been in negotiation with the HSE for increased funding in respect of the excellent services it delivers in Kilkenny to those who are obliged to access them. The response of the HSE in respect of this matter has been extremely disappointing L'Arche Kilkenny was obliged to carry out significant works to the tune of approximately €300,000 to satisfy HIQA and to meet the standards now required - to FETAC level 5 - of the individuals it employs. It was happy to do all of that but in its negotiations with the HSE, the matter has been put on the long finger. This negotiation has been ongoing since July and moneys were to be paid to L'Arche to ensure that both its expenses and the debt incurred would be covered up to the end of 2015. Thereafter, an increased level of funding will be required by the organisation.

In Kilkenny, L'Arche is running at a deficit of €18,000 a month and it is extremely concerned that it may have to close its service. One family with which I have dealt directly were obliged to try to negotiate with regard to care for their loved one but, again, they were disappointed by the response from the HSE. Those to whom I refer are advocating for family members, some of whom, presumably, are of the same age as the person being cared for; they might be brothers or sisters. Why put those families through the stress and difficulties they are now experiencing? The parents and others involved came together to hold a public meeting and issued a statement to the local newspapers expressing their disappointment with the response from the HSE. In the covering letter sent to me they state that they have no faith in the HSE to deliver the funding which has been half promised for so long. They are angry and upset that some of their elderly parents are being put through this worry and upset at this time of their lives. They say that for some residents it is a brother or sister that takes on the role of advocate, and they want it to be known that they will not sit idly by. Why do they have to fight like this? Why is the service not recognised by the Department? The funding, which has been half committed, should be given to L'Arche in a spirit of good faith and partnership so that it can continue, without worry, to the end of 2015. It should be given an early indication of the increase it will receive in the context of its funding for 2016. It is extremely unfair to the individuals to whom I refer and to the organisation in question.

Something similar is happening in regard to respite at St. Patrick's special school. Funding is available but the allocation of it has been parked while the delivery of a service is being examined. While the allocation of such funding is being parked, parents are obliged to deal with this issue. They are stressed out and at the end of their tether. Why would we not ensure that professionals are put in place speedily and this respite is given?

In the same vein, Tír na nÓg in Carlow provides respite services for children with special needs. It is seeking €320,000 from the HSE to provide, in co-operation with a local developer, the services that are necessary in Carlow. This organisation has also been stonewalled by the HSE in meeting after meeting. It has received no actual response from the executive on the delivery of the funding that is necessary to continue and expand the services or, in its case, to ensure it is given the appropriate capital fund.

The Supplementary Estimates are being released today. Surely there is sufficient funding within the latter to give commitments to the end of 2015 and that thereafter - because the Minister of State knows its case - the necessary funding can be put in place without an argument. This would mean that all the stress and trauma that goes with engaging in public action and activity in respect of the shortfall in funding for those being cared for would be done away with. If my suggestion were followed, each entity to which I have referred would know what it is going to receive and that would allow it to plan accordingly.

Before I give the Deputy the official response, I wish to point out that there was no reference in the Topical Issue he tabled to St. Patrick's or Tír na nÓg.

It is the same example. It is the same issue.

I hope the Deputy understands that I cannot reply to that because I did not have any notice of it.

The Deputy will need to understand that.

I thank Deputy McGuinness for raising this issue. I am pleased to outline the position on the Camphill and L’Arche organisations. As an aside, I wish to say that the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, has been bending my ear on the issue of Camphill and L’Arche in Kilkenny in recent weeks.

The Minister of State has made her political point.

I very much acknowledge the important contribution that Camphill communities, with the support of the Health Service Executive, have made to providing services for people with disabilities across 17 centres in Ireland over the years. The HSE is acutely aware of the resource shortfall presented by Camphill and is currently engaging with it to develop a set of proposals to resolve the challenges over an agreed period of time. This includes a commitment to supporting the organisation to reconfigure the current model of service and funding arrangements to a more sustainable model, while still maintaining the particular ethos of the service. I believe the ethos in this case is very important.

The HSE recognises the volunteer nature of the service model in Camphill. Over the recent years of austerity where funding reductions were necessary, the HSE kept the reductions in funding to Camphill to a minimum, as with other similar volunteer-type services. It is my understanding that the current challenges facing Camphill have arisen in the context of implementation of the national standards for residential care introduced in late 2013 which are regulated by the Health Information and Quality Authority. I am aware that some of the 17 Camphill communities have experienced particular challenges in achieving compliance and that others have progressed well. The HSE will continue to collaborate with HIQA and the Camphill communities to achieve full compliance in all centres over the coming years as resources become available.

The HSE is also aware of the financial challenges facing L’Arche services in Callan, County Kilkenny, at this time and have been in ongoing contact with the management of L’Arche over recent weeks and months in an effort to find a solution to these difficulties. I am aware that these difficulties stem from compliance issues with the regulatory environment, which require that the model of service previously provided by L’Arche be reviewed and enhanced.

The HSE has been working with all voluntary service providers on improving compliance during 2015, addressing the areas of highest risk as a priority. These efforts will continue in 2016 and preparation of the HSE’s service and operational plans will be underpinned by a focus on making the best use of the resource invested in disability services.

I assure the Deputy that the HSE remains committed to working with the Camphill and L’Arche organisations, and to be as supportive as possible within current financial constraints. I also assure service users and their families that the HSE will concentrate all its efforts on the continued provision of services in the local community and that work is ongoing with those affected to resolve the current difficulties.

That is the greatest example of political waffle I have heard in this House for a long time and the Minister of State knows it. Her response merely describes what the issue is and does not in any way attempt to answer the question I put on behalf of the parents of those using the service.

The HSE gave a commitment and figures for funding have been discussed. In her answer the Minister of State has refused to even deal with it. The only point she made with confidence is that somebody is bending her ear. I can tell her that the ears of the HSE have been bent and yet it has not responded in the way that I would expect. It is dealing with the vulnerable and those who are in need of the service. They need a commitment from the HSE to tell them that they will have the money before the end of the year and to tell them that the money they require for next year will be there for them. Can the Minister of State not address that question and at least tell them so that they can take the anxiety out of their lives? It would also take the anxiety out of the lives of those who volunteer to help and contribute to Camphill, L'Arche, Tír na nÓg, and all the others who are trying to ensure they get the best for the clients they have.

It is regrettable. I cannot find words to describe it. It is an avoidance of the issue and failing to addressing what is a real concern for parents. The Minister of State could have used the opportunity to announce that it was at an advanced stage and tell them when they will get the money.

Instead she chooses to waffle nonsense in this House. The Minister of State knows that more than more most in the House because when she was in opposition she took a different kind of stance. That is not an acceptable answer. These are not her words; they are words from the civil servants.

The Deputy's sense of outrage is exactly the same about every situation he addresses in this House, whether it is in the Committee of Public Accounts-----

No, it is not. I reject that. I have it here in writing to the HSE - that same sense of outrage.

Excuse me, Chairman, do I have the right to speak?

It is shocking that the Minister of State would try to make it a political issue.

The Minister of State should give them the money.

The Deputy and Minister of State are supposed to make their remarks through the Chair and should not speak to each other.

I am addressing you, Chairman. Am I allowed to speak? I did not interrupt the Deputy.

Just refer to the Deputy and do not speak directly to him.

The Deputy's sense of outrage and attitude to everything is exactly the same. Every time I hear him, regardless of the issue, his tone is the same and his sense of outrage is the same. Outrage does not solve problems.

Nor does the Minister of State.

Sorry, Deputy, we will have one speaker at a time.

The Deputy should try to have a little bit of respect. I know he does not do it often, but he should try it on this occasion.

The Minister of State should stop with the old blather.

It usually works and he should try it on this occasion.

The Minister of State should answer the question.

We are in negotiations. We are very conscious that there are difficulties and we are equally conscious that these people provide an incredible service and we do not want to lose that service. The Deputy's outrage and lack of respect is not doing them any good.

The Minister of State should pay them the money that she promised them. Her respect for them is not much either.

Disability Support Services

The Minister of State will recall that I raised this matter with her earlier today in the course of the consideration of disability issues by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children. She may not have come across the detail of it at that time. I was unable to await her response owing to the clash with the Second Stage debate on the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill dealing with risk equalisation in health insurance.

The story of this long-awaited home for people with physical and sensory disabilities, two of whom and their families are known to me personally, has become a saga - I do not use that language lightly - of institutional incompetence. It demonstrates all too clearly the silo attitude across our public services, in this instance the almost complete inability of the key players to sit down together and rationally address and overcome the questions and difficulties that can arise in a cross-services project.

In this instance the players are the Department of Health, the HSE, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Monaghan County Council and the Respond Housing Association. I have seen so much correspondence over the years with one claiming the other has to do something or that another letter is due. It is unreal. Somewhere in there people are failing in their duty to assist this project to move forward with appropriate speed and they are most certainly failing special and deserving people, and their families.

In Margaret Hughes's case, when I first Margaret with her mother, Philomena, living in sheltered housing in my home town, Philomena's dearest wish was that she would see her daughter safely provided for within her lifetime. Philomena is dead and gone and Margaret has not been provided for, as she should be. She is in a placement, but it is not the appropriate placement despite what some might suggest. In Romy Ward's case, her parents are also moving on in terms of age, and Briain and Sheila are hugely concerned for Romy's future. There was a promised placement in this new group home facility, which has yet to see a single sod turned after all these years.

I ask the Minister of State if she will personally intervene in the outrageously delayed commencement of the long promised group home in Carrickmacross, County Monaghan; that she would ensure that the serious disconnect between all the relevant entities, those I have named, the Department of Health, the Health Service Executive, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Monaghan County Council and Respond Housing Association, is finally addressed and that the appropriate body from among their number, whoever that might be, would instruct the contractor to commence works immediately; and that she will assure the long-waiting and long-agonising intended occupants and their families of the earliest completion date possible.

As Deputy Ó Caoláin rightly said, he raised this matter already today. I will read the informed and official response but, equally, I will have someone find out exactly how we can progress the issue as speedily as possible.

In the first instance I wish to inform the House that the matters raised in relation to the commissioning and commencement of the group home in Carrickmacross fall under the statutory remit of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the housing authorities. I have been informed that in April 2013 the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the housing authorities approved capital assistance scheme funding of €900,000 for the provision of a group home for people with physical and sensory disabilities at Drummond Otra, Convent Lands, Carrickmacross. I understand from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government that, following receipt of a tender report showing a 50% increase in the cost of the project, it requested a value-for-money appraisal of the project. That is to be expected. Anyone of us seeing such an increase would baulk at it. As a result of this appraisal, a revised design was subsequently developed by the approved housing body and Monaghan County Council. In addition, it was necessary for Monaghan County Council, in advance of committing significant amounts of Exchequer funding to the scheme, to engage with the HSE and HIQA in relation to design issues, ensuring that the units will be fully occupied once completed and that the ongoing services required to meet the needs of the individuals using the facility are in place before going forward. We must ensure that as people age the group home is still sufficient for their requirements. I have been informed that these steps are now being finalised by Monaghan County Council and that a decision on funding will be provided by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to Monaghan County Council shortly.

As part of a joined-up inter-agency approach to delivering housing to people with a disability I am informed that the HSE disability services manager for Cavan and Monaghan will continue to work closely with officials from Monaghan County Council and Respond Housing Association in progressing proposals for the development of this facility. I hope we are at a point where, with a little bit of a push, we can bring the project over the line as quickly as possible. I agree that it has taken far too long.

I thank the Minister of State for attending here. It is the second time we have had the opportunity to address this matter in this House today. I note in the closing sentence of the opening remark the reference to, "As part of a joined-up inter-agency approach". I am sure the Minister of State will have had experiences similar to mine in this regard, that the thinking is not always as joined up as it must be. This is a major difficulty. It is not a reflection on the current Government or any previous Government in particular but I have often heard and seen examples of the failure of various Departments to even join up in terms of respective projects. In this case we have a multiplicity of different agencies and the project has not proceeded as it should.

In terms of the issue in relation to the increased cost of the project, one can understand that an inordinate increase required examination but it is a couple of years even since that point and we have still not reached the get-go to get on with the project. That is what is needed.

While I recognise that the response, like others delivered by the Minister of State, is not of her own hand, nevertheless I take comfort from what she said to me personally in this exchange that she will explore where things are at currently and endeavour to release the logjam to allow this project to proceed. It is absolutely essential that it would happen and it is vital for the cohort of young women who are coping in life with major physical and sensory disabilities that they are appropriately placed. I respectfully ask that the Minister of State would come back to me at the earliest opportunity with whatever report she can share.

It is late in the evening and I will be very brief. I will get someone to write to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government tomorrow to outline our concerns on the delay and as soon as I get a response to that I will come back to the Deputy.

Psychological Assessments

The Minister of State will understand the importance of having a child's development assessed before he or she enters primary school in order for the school to cater properly and professionally for the child's needs. She will also be aware of the procedure of the early intervention team and its vital role in ensuring a child is properly assessed. An early intervention team consists of a public health nurse, an occupational therapist, a speech therapist, a social worker, a dietician and a child psychologist. For a child to be assessed, he or she must meet each of those individuals who will compile their own reports and they will be used as the basis to determine what supports the child may need in primary school. The supports can range from the provision of a special needs assistant, SNA, to helping a child progress with his or her speech development. It usually takes about six months for the report to be progressed through the HSE and the requirements are put in place before the child starts school.

However, in Longford, the child psychologist is currently on maternity leave and has not been temporarily replaced. That essentially means the psychological report cannot be produced and therefore the final report to the HSE cannot be completed. As a result, we have a number of children in County Longford whose assessment is essentially at a standstill because the HSE has failed to provide cover while the child psychologist is on leave. That presents a number of serious problems. If parents wish to take the private route, they can pay to have their child privately assessed. However, the HSE will not accept a report from the private sector. There are strict instructions that the report must be compiled by a HSE-employed child psychologist. Therefore, even if a parent is willing to pay €300 to have a private report conducted, it will still not suffice. In that case, all the parents can do is provide the report to the school, which will know exactly what the child requires but it is unable to apply for HSE-assisted funding because the report was not conducted by a HSE psychologist.

Another problem is that when the child psychologist returns from leave, he or she will have a serious backlog of children that must be assessed and that will take a number of months. Many of the children will already have been waiting a substantial period. I wish to stress that this is in no way the fault of the early intervention team. Any one member of the team may have to go on maternity leave, sick leave or compassionate leave. The problem is simply due to a lack of arrangements on the part of the HSE to employ a temporary replacement while the current team member is on leave. Therefore, we have a number of children in Longford who are essentially in limbo.

By the time they enter primary school in September 2016, their needs will not have been catered for properly and I plead with the Minister of State to intervene to cater for them.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. It is widely accepted that the Government has prioritised development of all aspects of mental health policy and services. Despite severe financial pressures overall, it has provided significant additional funding of €125 million since 2012 to enable the Health Service Executive, HSE, to implement the long-overdue modernisation of mental health services in line with the strategy outlined in A Vision for Change. In addition, I recently secured a further €35 million to enhance mental health services in 2016. Key to modernising services, in line with current and future demand and best international practice, is reorientation from a clinical focus to developing enhanced community-based provision. Approximately 1,150 new posts have been approved for mental health services since 2012, of which approximately 280 have been allocated specifically to child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, the bulk of which are now in place. However, as in other areas in the health sector, the HSE is experiencing difficulty in recruiting and retaining key staff. Adequate funding for mental health services is not the issue. The HSE mental health division supports timely access to appropriate services to address the mental health needs of all children and adolescents from a preventive care and early intervention perspective. Primary care services are usually the first point of contact for children and adolescents when mental health problems initially present. Primary care refers to health care delivered in local communities by psychologists, general practitioners, GPs, public health nurses, social workers and others in non-specialist settings. Young people's first port of professional support, therefore, will be the primary care system, directly via their GP or other health service professionals.

It is my understanding that there are two whole-time psychologists covering the five County Longford primary care teams and that there are no vacancies on the primary care side in this regard. Community child and adolescent mental health teams are the first line of specialist services for those 17 years or under who are experiencing mental health difficulties. In County Longford there are two psychologists in situ, with no vacancies. However, two additional psychologist posts are being sought by the executive in this area. There are, I understand, two psychologist vacancies in the early intervention and mental health-intellectual disability areas. The former is temporary in nature due to maternity leave, while the latter is a senior clinical psychologist position. The HSE has sought to fill both posts through its national recruitment service, with no success thus far. Some cover is provided in both areas for cases deemed to be urgent. The HSE mental health division is acutely aware of the need to focus on recruitment of front-line staff in the CAMHS and is working closely with the human resources function and the national recruitment service, as well as carrying out international recruitment campaigns to attract candidates to particular specialties or parts of the country. Despite these challenges, the latest figures from the HSE indicate a reduction in the category of those awaiting a CAMHS service for more than 12 months from 479 in March to 214 at the end of September, that is, a decrease of 55%. The number of cases waiting more than three months to be seen has also decreased over the same period. The issue raised by the Deputy will be pursued by the executive in that context. While progress is being made, unfortunately, difficulties are still being experienced, more so in some parts of the country than in others and more so in some specialties than others.

I thank the Minister of State for her reply, even though I cannot stress enough the importance of this issue. I have spoken to a number of parents who, essentially, are banging their heads against a brick wall because the assessments of their children have simply been placed on hold for the duration of the period of leave. The Minister of State's reply contains information which is contrary to what I have been given. Once the leave is complete, a child will be placed in a backlog queue and all the while expected to navigate his or her first year or two in primary school without the professional support he or she desperately requires. As the Minister of State is aware, this pertains to children who are just about to start primary school and need a little additional help in certain areas of their development but, essentially, they are being told that while the State is sorry, their assessment is on hold because the HSE is not providing cover. That is the case in County Longford. It is not acceptable and this issue should be taken seriously, although I have no doubt that it will be by the Minister of State and the Department of Health. These children should not be obliged to wait in limbo for almost 12 months until their assessments are approved officially by the HSE. I plead with the Minister of State to intervene as soon as possible on behalf of the children of County Longford.

I understand fully the distress this can cause parents, especially when they see their child is making progress and could make even more if he or she had greater support. On the issue of maternity leave, as a woman, I have a particular interest in it, but it is quite difficult to get people to act as a replacement on a short-term basis. People are seeking longer-term contracts and unless this is exactly what one does all the time, people really do not wish to act as short-term replacements, which is understandable. In some areas a team of people has been put in place to clear backlogs and if the position becomes acute in County Longford, I will consider this option also.

I thank the Minister of State for her positive response.

Fishing Industry

I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for choosing this Topical Issue and welcome the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, to the Chamber.

Many politicians and people talk about sustainable communities, be they sustainable farming, fishing, rural or coastal communities. In recent years there have been unsustainable activities on the part of supertrawlers, the activities of which, in many people's eyes, have been unsustainable in an Irish, a European Union and a global context. Today, four large supertrawlers are operating off the coast of County Donegal. The Margiris and the Annelies Ilena are the largest and second largest, respectively, and have been fishing on and off for the past few years, while the other two are the Jan Maria and the Maartje Theadora. It has been stated two fifths of European stocks, where data are available, were considered to be overfished, while a further 45% of stocks were estimated to be in a similar state. This places huge pressure on small fishermen off the west coast. I note the careful rebuilding of stocks in the Celtic Sea under the stewardship of the Celtic Sea herring management advisory committee, where, according to a 2012 report, stocks have recovered well and the fishery operation was regarded as being at a sustainable level. Credit is due to the Minister and everyone involved as all stakeholders came on board to ensure the recovery of that fishery.

Recent surveys, however, highlight a concern about the current position. These factory ships were run out of the waters off the west coast of Africa and the coast of Mauritius. The Annelies Ilena, previously the Atlantic Dawn, was known in many parts of Africa as the "sea monster" or "the ship from hell". Obviously, it also had Irish connections, although it now is Dutch-registered. These ships have also been run out of the waters of Australia and New Zealand amid protests and intervention by politicians. Some assert that they are fishing with no quotas, while others state they have a small quota but that there are no controls over them. I have been asked why a boat that has a quota to fish off Ireland for two to four weeks for a certain species, that is, for one month, would spend nine months fishing in Irish waters. Is it not reasonable to expect, in the first instance, that these large trawlers should announce to the Irish authorities that they are coming into Irish waters to fish? Second, they should have camera surveillance systems on board to monitor activities. Third, they should allow officers of the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority to board to verify activities and, fourth, they should leave Irish waters once their quotas have been caught. Ireland has full control - some would say excess control - over its own fleet in terms of quotas per Irish boat, whereas other boats such as boats from Spain have a national quota rather than a quota per boat, which makes it more difficult to verify or monitor whether overfishing is taking place. Ultimately, how is it fair and equitable that Irish boats have to comply, while others may not be doing so?

This is about jobs and the economy, including processing jobs in factories such as the one in Rossaveal, and in our rural communities. The EU is supposed to be about fairness and equality. There are national quotas rather than quotas per boat. How can this be fair if there is no proper monitoring of landings in other areas by these Dutch or German registered boats? Is the EU turning a blind eye to issues? Are there illegal activities going on? Do these boats target Irish waters and then get out before the Naval Service can catch them? Is the Minister confident that what is going on is above board, that the quota system and compliance by these boats with it is above board, and that we have nothing to worry about?

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue because I know it is causing concern and frustration. I have had a lot of interaction, particularly on social media, on this issue. I can assure the Deputy that it is not going unnoticed in my Department or by the agencies with responsibility for enforcement of the rules.

Control of vessels within Ireland's exclusive fisheries zone is as a matter for the Irish control authorities who monitor fishing activity of all vessels operating in the area. The control authorities have ongoing information in relation to the vessels operating in the Irish exclusive fisheries zone, including their activities and characteristics. Under the Sea-Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Act 2006, all operational issues of this nature concerning sea fisheries control are, as a matter of law, exclusively for the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA, and the Naval Service. As Minister, I am precluded from getting involved in operational matters, including in relation to law enforcement. Obviously, I ask what is going on and I ensure that the authority is applying the rules and regulations fairly and robustly. The SFPA has advised me that it is currently monitoring the activity of four large pelagic freezer trawlers within the Irish exclusive fisheries zone.

Vessels with the scope to catch large quantities of fish, with onboard grading facilities, create specific compliance risks, therefore justifying the specific focus of available control resources. For each of these, I am advised that the SFPA has clarified through contact with the flag state the entitlement of the vessel, and has identified particular compliance risks pertaining to those vessels. Since their arrival in the Irish exclusive fisheries zone, the SFPA has been monitoring their movements through VMS, and declared catches through ERS. In general terms, it advises that the declared catches have been consistent with limited processing capability that might exist in heavy weather. Current weather conditions are heavy, to put it mildly.

The SFPA is reliant on the seagoing fishery patrol activity of the Naval Service to verify compliance of vessels not landing into Ireland. Boarding vessels of this size at sea creates specific challenges and to date, the operational decision of the Naval Service has been that the weather has been too severe to do that. Our record in regard to large super-trawlers has been strong in the past 12 months. We have brought a number of vessels into Killibegs for full inspection and so on. I do not propose to read the lengthy note I have on this issue, a copy of which I am sure the Deputy has received and will read later in detail. I would, however, like to reassure people on a couple of points.

First, Ireland has a large fisheries area to patrol. It is ten times our land mass in terms of surface. It is among the most fertile fishing grounds not alone in the European Union but in the world. It is a fishing ground shared among many international fleets. Irish boats land about 20% of the catch. It is my job to ensure that the enforcement agencies of the State, namely, the Naval Service and the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, ensure that there are fair rules that apply to big and small boats, be they Irish owned or not. These agencies must, in particular, ensure that boats that enter that zone to fish, but do not land in Ireland because in terms of scale they have processing facilities on board, comply with the rules and that there is no grading, discarding and so on. It should not be forgotten that the discards ban introduced under the new Common Fisheries Policy, the concluding negotiations of which were chaired by Ireland, is in respect of the discard of fish in the pelagic sector. This has been in place for the whole of this year. We will be introducing an obligation to land into the white species from 1 January. The rules are stringent and we will enforce them. Current weather conditions are very rough, which means it is virtually impossible for the Naval Service to board these vessels. If the weather changes that approach may change.

I know there is concern in regard to this area. Ireland, too, has some very large pelagic trawlers. Some of the Irish trawlers probably have a greater capacity to catch in terms of the day catch than do most of the large trawler vessels about which we are speaking because they have to process as well as catch. There are some very large Irish vessels that fish in Irish waters and outside of Irish waters. I know there is a concern in regard to the scale and size of these vessels, which are almost immune to stormy conditions such as currently being experienced. I want to assure people that we are monitoring what they are doing and where they are and we want to enforce the rules strictly to ensure they are not catching beyond the quota they are allowed to catch within European waters.

I thank the Minister for his response and reassurance. I have received a copy of his response and I will read it more thoroughly after I leave the Chamber. The Minister is correct that there is concern in this area. I have been contacted by a number of fishermen and other people involved in the fishing community about the presence of these super-trawlers and their reputations. The Minister is also correct that there are also many large Irish trawlers, with one of the largest trawlers in this area being Irish.

The Minister is strongly supportive of the Celtic Sea project in regard to sustainable fishing. Does he view these supertrawlers as a threat to the sustainability of fish stocks in Irish waters, European waters and across the world? Is that an issue that is raised at fisheries meetings or an issue the Minister thinks is worthy of further examination? The Minister said that Irish waters are some of the most fertile in the world and that 20% of the catch is by Irish boats. It is because Irish waters are fertile that they are attractive to non-Irish trawlers. The more catch that is landed in Irish ports the more jobs created in processing and the more net value there is to the Irish State.

The Minister referenced current weather conditions. We cannot put anybody's life at risk in terms of our Naval Service and the inspection of boats. The view is that these super-trawlers target Irish waters when the weather is particularly bad in order that they might be able to evade detection by the Naval Service. Is that speculation or is there evidence of this? Is this an issue the Minister has discussed with the Naval Service or the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority?

The situation is not as loose as may be suggested. Boats have electronic logbooks such that we know what is being caught. Obviously, it helps to inspect to ensure that is the actual position. We know where the vessels are as soon as they enter Irish waters. If the Deputy were to visit the naval headquarters in Haulbowline staff there would be able to show him on screen the location of all fishing vessels in Irish waters at any given time, including a flag of the country of origin of each vessel. They can also access logbook information from boats. There is a lot of monitoring going on. What people would like to see is physical verification of that monitoring through on-board inspections. There are multiple boardings every day by the Naval Service. It is a tough job but they do a good job. They will board large vessels such as the super-trawlers about which we are speaking. They will probably target large vessels more than small vessels as there is more at stake potentially because of the volumes being caught, be they Irish boats or other boats.

People need to understand that we share fishing grounds within the European Union with other EU member states. We negotiate in December of each year the quota within different fishing sectors around the Irish coast, as we do across the Bay of Biscay, the Mediterranean Sea and up into the Baltic Sea. The quota that applies to each of those stocks in each of those zones is then divided among member states of the European Union in accordance with an agreed practise that has been going on now for many years.

Before fish are caught they must have a quota from a European member state that has a quota to catch fish, mackerel in this case, off the west coast of Ireland within this fisheries zone area. It is not as if the vessels are appearing, scooping up all of our fish and heading off without the quota to do that. The quota has been given to them on the basis of scientific advice in terms of the state of the stock and the health of that stock, coming from the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, ICES, which is the international body that makes the scientific recommendations in terms of the health of mackerel stocks each year.

This is not anything out of the ordinary in terms of fish that have been taken from waters for which we have responsibility for monitoring and managing from a fishery perspective. This is quota fish that are being caught by boats that are owned within the European Union and have a quota to catch fish in that zone. The issue for us is to make sure that they do not go beyond that quota, because given their scale and size they have the capacity to go way beyond it if they choose to and if there is not tight enforcement. Those large vessels have significant catch capacity but they also know the consequences if they break the rules, which are significant.

Because it is so stormy at the moment it is very difficult for us to get on board and to reassure people by verifying the catch and matching that with the electronic logbook data, but as soon as conditions allow for that we will do so. As the Minister responsible for the fishing industry, nobody is more aware than I am of the need to protect fish stocks. In the context of a new Common Fisheries Policy and a negotiated Common Fisheries Fund for Ireland, which is more than twice the size of any fisheries package that Ireland has ever had in the past, we are very serious about protecting Irish fishing interests, so if I felt that we had large supertrawlers that were abusing stocks in Irish waters, I would act on that, but this is about enforcement, information flow, transparency and keeping the rules. As soon as we have weather that can allow us to board those vessels, if the Naval Service and the SFPA feel it is appropriate to do so, that is what will happen.

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