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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 20 Jul 2016

Vol. 919 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Road Projects Status

The first Topical Issue is in the name of Deputies Aindrias Moynihan and Brendan Griffin. They have two minutes each.

The N22 Macroom bypass needs to be prioritised and moved to tender for construction. We cannot leave it pushed out to 2022. It is three years this month since the courts ruled on the bypass and the way was cleared for the land purchase to begin. In the meantime the land purchase has been moving along slowly, little by little. At this stage, three years on, it is a bit over halfway. Late last year there was great fanfare when Government Deputies were telling us we were on the new programme and were promising us everything was going to go ahead and was hunky-dory. However, there was no start date, which was of great concern for locals. Earlier this year it was very worrying for locals when the moneys allocated for the land purchase were reduced from €5 million to €3.8 million. To date, much of that allocation has already been spent. Up to this morning, €3.426 million of this year's allocation had been consumed and we are only as far as July. Transport Infrastructure Ireland really let the cat out of the bag in recent weeks when it met with Cork County Council. It said, "It is TII's intention to appoint a contractor for Dunkettle in 2018, as it is their top priority project, with a view to commencing in 2019/2020 while the N22 and N28 will be post 2021". That means it is not on the current programme but post-2021, which is the next programme. That is a serious setback for locals, who are keen to be unburdened of traffic by having the Macroom bypass built. It causes serious distress for people.

I ask the Minister to prioritise the Macroom bypass. Various Ministers have moved it through the different stages, and I ask the Minister to release it to tender for construction and raise it at Cabinet level, and possibly, if he has an opportunity-----

The Deputy is sharing time with Deputy Griffin.

I understood I had four minutes.

It is two minutes and two minutes.

I understood I had four minutes.

No, it is two minutes and two minutes. They are my instructions.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this issue. It is something I have raised here on numerous occasions over the last five and a half years. I did so with my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Michael Creed, on a number of occasions on Topical Issues and during Question Time. It was really good news to learn last year that the N22 was being put on the capital plan for 2016 to 2021. It was very positive. Various dates are being thrown about now for the start of this vital socioeconomic project for the entire south-west region. A date of 2022 was given to Cork councillors by TII; a date of 2020 was given to the chief executive of Kerry County Council by TII; and, at the most recent meeting of the transport committee, the Department indicated a date of post 2018-2019. Can the Minister give us an indication of what the date will be and if this matter will be prioritised? Logistically, from an engineering point of view, the N22 is a far more straightforward project than the Dunkettle project, which was referred to, or the Ringaskiddy road. There is no reason this road cannot go ahead in the very near future. There is no reason it cannot be started by the end of 2017. It is nearly shovel-ready. The need is well proven. From a socioeconomic point of view it would be a massive boost to the entire region. Figures I obtained last year from the NRA showed that there had been 41 fatalities since 1990 on this stretch of road, so the reasons are compelling. We need the Minister to ensure this is a priority project. When the capital plan was announced I went to the people of Kerry in good faith to tell them this road was on the capital plan, and my objective is to get it built as soon as possible. The Minister could help us with this and make sure it is a priority project. That is why I am raising it here today.

I will clarify that each Deputy had two minutes because they were sharing. The Minister has four minutes to answer.

I thank Deputy Moynihan and Deputy Griffin for raising this very important subject. I am very aware that Deputy Griffin raised this consistently in the last Dáil. It is a legitimate running sore for those who represent the area, and I will try to address the problem as adequately as possible in the time that is left.

As Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding of the national roads programme. The construction, improvement and maintenance of individual national roads, such as the N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom scheme, is a matter for Transport Infrastructure Ireland under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2015 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Within its capital budget, the assessment and prioritisation of individual national road projects is a matter for TII in accordance with section 19 of the Roads Act.

The Ballyvourney to Macroom scheme involves the construction of 22 km of new carriageway from just east of Macroom to west of Ballyvourney, including a bypass of Macroom town.

Ireland has just under 100,000 km of road in its network and the maintenance and improvement of national, regional and local roads places a substantial financial burden on local authorities and on the Exchequer. There have been very large reductions in Exchequer funding available for roads expenditure over the past number of years because of the national financial position. For this reason, the focus has had to be on maintenance and renewal rather than major new improvement schemes.

The capital plan published in September 2015 outlined proposed transport investment priorities to 2022. I understand that the transport element of the plan was framed by the conclusions reached in my Department's strategic investment framework for land transport. This report highlighted the importance of maintenance and renewal of transport infrastructure, together with targeted investments, to address particular bottlenecks and critical safety issues.

The capital plan provides €6 billion for investment in the roads network in the period to 2022, with €4.4 billion earmarked for the maintenance and strengthening of the existing extensive network throughout the country and €1.6 billion for new projects. Given the funding limits, the decision made by my predecessor was to provide for a mix of projects across the country to address particular constraints, including bottlenecks and port connectivity.

While it will not be possible to address all the demands for improvement schemes over the capital plan period, the plan provides for a number of important projects in the Cork area which are scheduled to commence construction within the plan period, including the upgrade of the Dunkettle roundabout and the N22 road between Ballyvourney and Macroom. In addition, the plan also provides that the N28 upgrade scheme will also commence subject to necessary approvals.

The transport element of the capital plan is based on a gradual build up in capital funding for the road network from the current relatively low base towards the levels needed to support maintenance and improvement works. Funding will continue to be tight in 2017, with a step up in 2018 and 2019 and then a significant ramp up from 2020. As Minister, I must work within the capital budgets included in the plan and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, in planning the construction schedule for individual projects, must also take account of the annual budgets available.

As regards the Ballyvourney to Macroom scheme, the scheme has full statutory approval and land acquisition is under way. Construction on this scheme is due to start in 2020.

As I have indicated previously, we all are conscious that the recovery of the economy is generating spending pressures across the government system, including capital investment needs. As part of a programme for partnership Government, there is an increased emphasis on the need for spending on public services but the Government still must operate within the EU fiscal rules and this does constrain options. There will be a mid-term review of the capital plan and this will provide an opportunity to assess progress and consider what scope there is for increased levels of investment depending on economic growth.

I welcome the clarification that the Minister's position is that construction on this scheme is due to start in 2020. There are various dates floating around on it. Cork County Council has been given a date of 2021 or later for the construction of it. TII and Cork County Council, the bodies at the coalface dealing with this on a daily basis, are saying it will be post-2021. Will the Minister sit down with representatives of TII to clarify, and impress on them, that it is a priority for TII that the Macroom bypass is started immediately?

Will the Minister release the bypass to tender for construction because we cannot afford to have it waiting much longer than it is? As outlined earlier, it is a dangerous road on which there have been far too many fatalities. Since the compulsory purchase order, CPO, was made by the Minister more than three years ago, the number of people killed on that road would fill the entire front bench where the Minister is sitting. While I have been a public representative, and in my own area alone, the number of people killed on that road would fill that front bench, the one behind the Minister and the one behind that.

Will the Minister release this road to tender for construction without delay? Even 2020, if one goes by that date, is still a number of years away and one is looking at further danger and further fatalities.

I concur with the comments made by my colleague, Deputy Moynihan, and thank the Minister for his response. As a Deputy for the county of Kerry and working with my colleague across the border in Cork, I am pleading with the Minister to do what he can to prioritise this project, which is badly needed. What it has going for it is that it is almost shovel-ready. There is no reason this should be delayed any further.

While I welcome the clarification of a possible 2020 date as distinct from the 2022 date that was bandied around earlier, and with some point-scoring from certain quarters earlier in the week and last week, it is still too far away. It is four years away and there is no reason we should have to wait four years for this. There is no reason this cannot start in 2017. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Primarily, my fear is lives will be lost but the significant socioeconomic boost that this will give the region cannot be overlooked. What this will do for the south-west region is that it will open up a whole world of possibilities on both the Cork and Kerry sides. I urge the Minister to go back to TII and ask its representatives to find a way to move this forward.

I understand all the arguments that have been made by Deputies Griffin and Moynihan about the number of accidents, the dangers, the importance of this and the delays to which they have referred. They must understand funds are short. There is clearance for many roads but there is no funding for them. This is, of course, a priority.

The confusion is difficult to understand but the Deputies have heard all I have to say about that. I am meeting representatives of the TII in the next two weeks. I will ensure when I meet them that this is on the agenda, not only whether there is any need or compelling reason to hasten this up or whether there are any funds for that - I doubt if there is - but to sort out the mix-up in the dates, which is a legitimate point made by both Deputies. When I have discussed it with them at my meeting, which is definitely in early August, I will communicate with the Deputies.

In the meantime, would the Minister take the opportunity to travel the road and experience it for himself?

That is it. I am going on to the next issue.

Fish Farming

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important topical issue. On 26 April 2016, a press release appeared on the Inland Fisheries Ireland, IFI, website announcing that it intended to cease its operation in fish farms. This was issued at a time of significant political uncertainty and paralysis and in the backdrop of a caretaker Government.

At that time, I consulted the then Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, in regard to this and he advised me that he communicated with the chairperson of the board of IFI that no further action was to take place until there was broad consultation with all the stakeholders and, importantly, with his Department. However, on 5 July 2016, a notice of public consultation appeared on the IFI website explicitly stating that IFI will exit fish farm operations. This is not meaningful consultation. Indeed, it is an insult to the stakeholders, the people and, indeed, the Department involved in this area.

People might be aware that in 2015, a report was commissioned by Canadian Aquaculture Systems, Inc. which found that there was no explicit reason for IFI to cease its operation in fish farms. Indeed, it found that the operations were comparable to those of the private sector. When one considers how dated the plant is in Roscrea, it was a significant achievement. The report also explicitly stated that in the past, IFI issued a public tender for the supply of rainbow trout for put-and-take fisheries and there were no responses or bids to the tender. This clearly states that there is no alternative to the current operation and, therefore, a view being advanced that we should look to the private sector to fill in the void does not hold water.

The CEO of IFI normally states there are opportunity costs. I would put to him clearly the opportunity cost of the assessment in the unique position held by IFI in having minimal access to large volumes of high-quality water. Water supplies are available at the fisheries at little or no cost, relying on longstanding arrangements. If these arrangements are terminated, these will almost certainly not be repeated in any sector. A conservative estimate of the volume of water used by the three fisheries amounts to 25,000 cu. cm per day, which would cost in excess of €35,000 per day. What is the opportunity cost of that?

A socio-economic study into recreational angling indicates that angling is responsible for €750 million in revenue per annum and in excess of 10,000 jobs so what is the opportunity cost of compromising that sector?

I want to be very clear about this. The Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, has been exceptional. He came to Mullingar yesterday evening and attended a public meeting with all the anglers' associations and concerned representatives. We took a tour of the fish farm in Cullion and we could see clearly its self-sufficiency. There have been workers there for generations who have brought together a strong strain of trout that they have spent 40 or 50 years breeding. Why should we compromise this to import fish from outside Ireland that could bring germs or diseases? There are no pumps at Cullion as the water is brought in from Lough Owel, going to Lough Ennell through the Brosna. It is operated with natural gravity. We must stand up and be counted on this issue, making it very clear to the board of Inland Fisheries Ireland, IFI, that this will be done at its peril. It is a key industry that must be protected.

I thank Deputy Burke for raising this Topical Issue. Inland Fisheries Ireland, IFI, is the State agency responsible for the protection, management and conservation of Ireland's inland fisheries and sea angling resources. IFI was formed on 1 July 2010 following the amalgamation of the Central Fisheries Board and the seven regional fisheries boards into a single agency. Ireland has over 74,000 km of rivers and streams and 128,000 ha of lakes, all of which fall under the jurisdiction of IFI. It has a long history of providing rainbow and brown trout to support the fish stocking requirements of Ireland's trout angling stakeholders. IFI's main fish production unit is located at the IFI fish farm near Roscrea, with a supporting facility, which mainly supports the maintenance of broodstock, located at Cullion in Mullingar. There is also a small operation at Lough Allua.

The proposal around rationalising the fish farm operations of IFI is a day-to-day operational matter for the board of IFI, although I acknowledge the major impact on the local economy across the country but particularly in the midlands. It should have been taken into account by the board of the IFI. IFl advises that from a structural perspective, the fish farming operation is based on physical structures and facilities designed and built in the late 1950s and since then and has been meeting the increasing demands of operational and regulatory requirements from facilities that are dated. In that context, I accompanied Deputy Burke and Councillor Andrew Duncan on a visit to IFI's Cullion broodstock and hatchery facility in Mullingar yesterday evening to review at first hand the existing facilities, where we were briefed by a member of IFI's senior management team and the operator of the farms.

I am advised by the board of IFI that it is IFI's intention to exit fish farming operations over the coming years at current locations, with the agency maintaining one aquaculture facility at Cong, County Mayo, which will be used for research and conservation stocking. This site has been identified as having the most potential due to the quality and quantity of its water supply, which is an important consideration for fish production. Ultimately, the IFI hatchery at Cong is expected to be upgraded to a facility capable of housing modern hatchery and research operations. IFl also advises that it was always intended that the phase-out plan will include consultation with affected stakeholders. The former Minister of State had written to the chair of IFI noting IFI's intention to consult with affected parties prior to any action and that a report of the consultation would be made to the Department. I recently met the board of IFI to reinforce the requirement that a full report be made to the Department before any action is taken. However, I regret the lack of consultation and the wording of the consultation when it was advertised. It was seen as a sort of fait accompli rather than a full public consultation to assess the future of the very valuable resource at Cullion and Roscrea.

IFl has written to affected stakeholders, advising them that the farms are operating as normal for 2016. It is important to clarify that the decisions of the board were not prescriptive regarding a timeline or a particular option as to how IFI might exit commercial production. In consultation with the chairman of the board of IFI and on the advice of the chief executive officer, I have decided to extend the deadline for the consultation to 19 September. I ask all interested parties to participate in the consultation. I will shortly meet the chairman of the board and the chief executive officer when he returns from a break to discuss the issue further. I understand the grave concern about the decision made by the board in the interregnum between the election and the formation of the Government. I know there is deep unease and unhappiness about this but I intend to consult fully with the chairman of the board and the chief executive officer to see if we can resolve the issue.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply but we must go further on this. The Twenty-six Counties of Ireland benefit from the stocks in these farms, so it is a vital resource in Ireland. If we appoint an independent company to commission a report into the sector but do not heed its advice, what is the point in having that process? The company was clear that there is no alternative in the private sector, so there will be a compromise on that front. The water values being brought to the farm may not be achieved in future. We have heard much about how the fish farms are loss-making but let us do an audit on the figures. I am surprised as staff will be redeployed and I understand staff are included in the figures cited. There may be national and scientific costs that should also be included and that must be examined closely.

I understand a former Deputy's book has a chapter on the rod war and the difficulties of the time. This has the capacity to escalate to that level if it is not dealt with urgently because this is a natural resource. As Councillor Andrew Duncan articulated so well at the meeting last night, we are highly dependent on the quality of our lakes with regard to the revenue brought in through tourism. Do we want to throw that away? We are trying to throw away 50 years of work in generating resilient breeds of trout to put into those lakes. Anglers come to our lakes because of the experience and the quantity and quality of fish in those lakes. They will not come if we back away from the industry. We must be very clear.

It is reprehensible for a chief executive officer or board to take a decision as drastic as this when a Government is being formed. The disrespect shown to the Government is also reprehensible and we should stand up to it. We must take urgent action. I thank the Minister of State for his reply.

I thank the Deputy for his comments and I understand the frustration he feels, along with the level of concern expressed at the public meeting last night in Mullingar, with representatives attending from all over the country. They represented the fishing rivers in Dublin, Louth, Mayo, Galway and other places. Although the facilities in Cullion and Roscrea are doing a job, there have been decades of under-investment. I have seen the facility at Cullion but I have not been to the Roscrea facility. The Cullion facility is functioning, as I noted at the meeting, but it is antiquated and needs investment, particularly in the existing buildings.

I raised the issue of public consultation but when I met the board on 30 June, I was not informed by anybody - either the chief executive officer or any member of the board - that a week later the public consultation would be advertised as a fait accompli. The Deputy is correct in that there are 50 years of research and breeding in the facilities. I advocated to the board and chief executive officer that before any decision should have been considered regarding any cessation, there should have been a plan to ensure the valuable fish stock and resources being put into the rivers locally would be replaced with an alternative. There is none, as far as I can see. There is talk of private operators but there is no clear alternative in place. Once the chief executive officer is back from the break I will sit down with him and the chairman to push the issue of planning further. There is widespread disquiet and I have extended the period of consultation to 19 September. I hope to use that period to consult further about the future. I recognise the Deputy and thank him for the invitation to yesterday's meeting and to visit the facilities in Cullion.

May I make a brief point?

No, there is no provision to come in at this point. I am sorry.

Industrial Development

Ebay first put down roots in Ireland in 2003 with 25 staff.

In April 2013, it opened its international operations centre in Dundalk, which was a massive boost for the area. At the time, the president of PayPal, Mr. David Marcus, described the company's relationship with Ireland as an everlasting honeymoon and the Dundalk facility as being the heart of eBay. I hope the Minister will today confirm that this still is so and that it wishes to remain there. The company had plans to grow to 450 staff in Dundalk at the time. We are all aware of the division of eBay and PayPal. We are appreciative of the value that this leading company, PayPal, has been to Dundalk and the surrounding districts of Drogheda, Newry and Dublin. I am advised that the company wishes to utilise the space currently being occupied by the eBay side of the business and, hopefully, this will result in additional employment at PayPal.

I believe that eBay has viewed properties in the area that are suitable for its operation and I have confirmation of that from leading auctioneers. There is a strong belief in the area that, although such accommodation is available in the Dundalk and Drogheda area, eBay has been induced by State institutions, with no doubt a little political coaxing, to consider places such as Sligo and Castlebar as options, and perhaps I should throw Athlone into the mix also. Regrettably, I cannot seem to get confirmation to the contrary from any company or State body to confirm or deny this rumour. Nor can I get such confirmation from some of my colleagues in this House who may well be better informed than other Deputies at this stage. A constituency colleague in the Government from my local town has caused alarm by admitting to the media that he has known about this for more than eight weeks, as has the Minister. Will the Minister assure this House that IDA Ireland and its senior management have not used a range of methods such as grants, employment incentives, credits and discounts to move eBay from its present location to another area of the country?

Tá mé buíoch don Cheann Comhairle mar thug sé an seans dom ceist a chur faoin obair thábhachtach seo. Tá a lán daoine i nDún Dealgan, go háirithe lucht oibre eBay agus PayPal agus a dteaghlaigh, buartha faoi na ráflaí faoi jabanna sa dá áit seo. Más féidir leis an Aire a bheith soiléir faoi seo, bheadh a lán daoine níos sásta i nDún Dealgan. There are a lot of rumours about the future of eBay, which employs 200 people, and its revenue. It shares a site at the Xerox Technology Park with PayPal, although it parted company with it two years ago. It is a highly successful business and its revenue is expected to be in the region of $2.2 billion. In February 2013, eBay announced it was creating 450 jobs in Dundalk with the establishment of its new European operations centre.

There is a lot of speculation about the future intentions of eBay. These could be entirely without foundation, but it has been suggested that because of the separation of PayPal and eBay the latter now needs its own site. Workers, local businesses and families are understandably worried about the uncertainty. Will the Minister clarify the situation, end this damaging speculation and give firm assurances that these jobs and projects, which have benefited people not just in Dundalk but right across the Border up into County Down, will stay there and that the Minister and IDA Ireland are focused on ensuring that this is the case?

I would like to thank the Deputies for raising this Topical Issue. I also thank Deputies Fergus O'Dowd and Peter Fitzpatrick, who have raised it with me also. As they will know from my statement in the Dáil yesterday in response to Deputies Martin and Adams, I have been in touch with the CEO of IDA Ireland to discuss the concerns of both the employees and other stakeholders in the Dundalk area.

In September 2014 it was announced that eBay and PayPal would split into two entities by 2015. The official split happened on 17 July 2015 and both companies began trading as separate entities on 20 July. I understand that the two entities wish to operate from separate premises and, to facilitate this, IDA Ireland is working with eBay to find a suitable premises. My concern is to ensure that eBay stays in Ireland and, therefore, I have asked IDA Ireland to work with the company to facilitate it in any way possible in finding a suitable premises in which its operation can continue here. However, the final decision lies with the company alone.

As part of my remit in the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, I am responsible for driving regional development. I wish to ensure that we have a good spread of jobs countrywide and away from the greater Dublin area. Dundalk has done very well in recent years in attracting foreign direct investment, and that is a testament to all the hard work done in making Dundalk an attractive place to do business. In fact, County Louth stands out among the Border counties for its successes in job creation, with 21 IDA Ireland companies supporting 3,245 jobs. This has been a real success story for IDA Ireland. As a further example of this progress, in June 2014 PayPal announced that it would add two new strategic functions, with the employment of an additional 400 people at the Dundalk site to support business growth in North America and global credit functions support in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. The addition of these 400 new jobs will bring total employment at PayPal in Dundalk to 1,400 by 2017. Recruitment for these new positions has already started.

Since my appointment as Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, my focus has been on driving forward the regional action plans. The north east north west action plan, which includes County Louth, was launched last November and aims to increase employment in the region by 10% to 15% over the period to 2020, resulting in the delivery of 28,000 additional jobs. Other key targets of the action plan include increasing the number of start-ups by at least 25% through targeted initiatives and programmes to support enterprise, and increasing the number of IDA Ireland investments by between 30% and 40% to 2019. While these are ambitious targets, they are also achievable and well thought out. The agencies under my remit will continue to strive to facilitate the needs of both multinationals and indigenous companies to maintain existing jobs and increase the number of new ones while also ensuring a good spread of employment throughout the regions.

I thank the Minister for her response and note that she used the words "facilitate" and "stays in Ireland". I also recognise eBay's right to make its own decision. I put it that the reason the region has been doing so well is a result of the work of the local authority, the Louth Economic Forum, the Chamber of Commerce and the presence of Dundalk Institute of Technology in the region. However, the Minister has not answered my question. I put it to her categorically that I want an assurance that neither IDA Ireland nor its management is using a range of methods to attract investment to various regions that are contrary to what should be happening in the development of industry in Ireland - namely, inducements to people from outside these regions. All I am looking for is a fair playing field and for eBay to recognise, as it did from the start, that Dundalk is at the heart of its operations and decide, given the workforce in Dundalk and the development that has taken place, not to move on. We all recognise that PayPal will expand and that is great. The bottom line for most of the Oireachtas Members and the people of the region is that we want to retain eBay and expand PayPal. Everyone benefits from that regional approach.

I thank the Minister for her answer and note her statement that she wishes to ensure that eBay stays in Ireland. I do not think that is an issue. There is no question of its moving.

Dundalk is an area of considerable disadvantage but it has a very innovative and skilled workforce and lots of local leaders from the Institute of Technology, the economic forum, the local chambers and Louth County Council. It lies on the main corridor between Belfast and Dublin and is close to the airports and is in the Border region. There are other sites close to or in Dundalk and, while the Minister says it is up to the company to take its own decision, it can be influenced, as it was in the first instance to locate in Dundalk. I ask the Minister to look at the particular needs of this area and the success of this project and to give an assurance that she will do her utmost to ensure it stays where it is at the moment, or at least in the general Dundalk area.

I absolutely will do that. I have spoken with the CEO of IDA Ireland which is working with eBay to find a suitable premises. My concern is that eBay stays in Ireland so I have asked IDA Ireland to work with the company to facilitate it. The IDA has organised five site visits by foreign companies to County Louth in 2016 and it will continue to do that.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

NAMA Property Sales

If the Minister of State follows the River Dodder, from near here up river for 29 km, he will pass a fantastic part of the country. He will come out towards Tallaght and Kiltipper on the right. Following the river to his left he will see the Glenasmole valley going past Bohernabreena where a lot of the water we drink comes from. He will then get into the valley, which is one of the most spectacular places in this country and matches anything in County Mayo, such as Croagh Patrick, in its beauty. It is a stunning wilderness and there is nothing there - not a shed and hardly a fence. It is a wildlife reserve to match any other. If one walks up to the source of the Dodder, which is hard to find on account of there being so many pools and tributaries, one will arrive at the top under Kippure mountain which is spectacular and looks out over Dublin. It is a huge wide valley with huge history, lore and heritage. No other capital city in Europe, or maybe the world, has what we have, which is the sea and the mountains, and this is an integral part of the mountains. The valley sits surrounded by 200,000 hectares of the Wicklow National Park which is a patchwork of areas including Lough Bray and Glencree. It is up for sale at the moment but we cannot let it go for sale and have to keep it in State ownership to be added to the Wicklow National Park, which it would grow by some 10%, providing an amazing facility for the people of this city and the whole country.

What contact has the Department had with NAMA on the subject of this land? The land came into the ownership of the State through a developer who was involved in the Dundrum town shopping centre and was not able to hold onto it. NAMA has put it up for sale with an auctioneer but we have to make sure it is not sold. It is of no development potential. Some 93% of the land is in the Wicklow SAC and one can do nothing with it, such as put up a wind farm or buildings. It is under freehold at the moment and we should get back control of it to use it as part of the Wicklow National Park.

There is only one difficulty, which is that it is in Dublin. If we can see beyond borders it could also be part of a Dublin mountain uplands park, as proposed by South Dublin County Council. Last week the council announced this as the centrepiece of its tourism strategy, suggesting it could bring in some €26 million and create 2,500 jobs. The Dublin mountain partnership, which I was involved in setting up, has been an amazing achievement in the past ten years. People walk, cycle and engage in all types of activities in the Dublin mountains and these 5,000 acres would be an incredible facility. I ask the Minister to make sure the National Parks and Wildlife Service intervenes and recognises that this has huge value to the State. NAMA cannot sell it as a social requirement was stitched into the legislation.

I am keen to hear what the National Parks and Wildlife Service thinks of this resource and what mechanisms we can find, at this late stage, to make sure it is not sold but kept for the people of this country to whom it belongs.

My colleague, the Minister for Finance, is responsible for the National Asset Management Agency, and questions regarding the sale of land by NAMA should in the first instance be directed to his Department. Accordingly, it would not be appropriate for me to discuss the role of NAMA.

I can, however, provide some background to the role of my Department regarding the land surrounding Glenasmole, which I understand incorporates much of the land known as the "Featherbeds". The land in question encompasses some 4,900 acres, as outlined in the advertisement issued by the firm handling the sale of the land. The majority of this land lies within a special area of conservation and a special protection area and for that reason is a very important site for nature conservation. The land also adjoins the Wicklow Mountains National Park, Ireland's largest national park.

In February 2014, the predecessor of the current Minister for arts, heritage, regional, rural and Gaeltacht affairs met with officials from Mountaineering Ireland, at which the question of lands near Wicklow Mountains National Park held by NAMA was discussed. After this meeting, officials from the Department approached NAMA to discuss those lands, with a meeting held in April 2014. On foot of the meeting, in early May 2014 the Department expressed an interest in acquiring the lands in question. NAMA responded by indicating that the board of NAMA had recommended that NAMA engage, where feasible, with other State bodies, where that body has expressed an interest in acquiring a property for a purpose specifically linked to its statutory functions.

Between May 2014 and September 2015 there was intermittent contact between officials from the Department and NAMA. Discussions in August and September 2015 related to the valuation of the land in question. In June 2016, I understand there were media reports regarding the proposed sale by NAMA of the lands in question. I also understand a separate commercial property management firm is handling the sale and has advertised the property for sale by private treaty. Given its closeness to Wicklow Mountains National Park and given its importance for nature conservation as an SAC and SPA, the land in question would be very important to the national park. However, given the scarce resources available for capital investment in our national parks and nature reserves, I am mindful of the need to focus on the core responsibilities relating to the management of the parks and reserves. For that reason, the Department could only consider acquiring this property if the price fell within a certain range.

I am surprised we have allowed this to get to this stage. If officials and NAMA have been involved in talks and been haggling over price, which I presume is what the Minister of State said, how have we let it be publicly put up for sale? Media reports suggest it has an asking price of some €2.5 million but the problem is that, when it is opened up to other bidders, it will be difficult for the State to get the price right between the National Parks and Wildlife Service and NAMA, though I hope there will not be any difficulty in this regard. The Minister's response confirms that we are all agreed on the fact that this makes absolute sense. A national park beside the existing national park would increase the park by 10% and is a perfect fit for what we already have. It would add huge value to the State. How does the Minister of State propose entering into talks with the Minister for Finance and NAMA to stop this and not allow private people to come in?

If the price reported in the newspapers is correct, it is only about €500 an acre. I believe the Minister has done some work in auctioneering and he will know that is not a high price. In terms of some of the benefits that would accrue, this site is located beside a huge population and is used frequently for recreational purposes. The health benefits alone of encouraging people to walk there and enjoying the natural benefits of it would mean we would get a very quick return on that price.

I ask the Minister to intervene directly in this matter. I know there are sensitivities around NAMA in terms of how he can approach it and so on, but this is a perfect example in that there is no possible commercial development. It makes sense for us to get hold of it, finish this quickly so we can stop a private bidder coming in and increasing the price to €3 million or €4 million. If that happens, we will have real difficulty in getting it back to the State. How does the Minister of State think he might do it?

The Deputy was part of that Government and he is correct. In the NAMA Bill politicians were exempt, and rightly so, from interfering with or talking to NAMA. However, the Minister for Finance can do that, and I will tell him the Deputy's concerns about this issue.

I want to put on the public record that I agree with the Deputy but I worry about NAMA's valuations with regard to this particular piece of land. The Deputy is correct. With the special areas of conservation, SACs, and the habitats directive it will not be used for development; there will be major restrictions in that regard.

My budget this year for the National Parks & Wildlife Service is €2.5 million so I do not have the resources. I will have to talk to the Minister for Finance.

I am dealing with another situation where it is in the public interest, and I repeat that I worry about the valuations NAMA is putting on these properties. I cannot interfere, and I cannot make that point to NAMA, but I can make it in the Dáil. This is in the public interest. I would like to see this property being acquired by the State but with the price I am told NAMA is looking for it is not commercially viable. I will ask the Minister for Finance to intervene with NAMA. I cannot personally do that. I will ask my officials again to talk with NAMA, the Minister for Finance and officials in the Department of Finance to see what can be done because what the Deputy stated is correct.

I will travel to Wicklow National Park next week where I will have an opportunity to examine the area. I have visited it in the past. It is a beautiful area and I would love to see this land being bought by the State. I cannot intervene but I will ask my officials to talk to the Minister for Finance. I will ask the Minister for Finance what can be done with this land.

There should be no difficulty. It is part of the budget process in which we are engaged. If it has to be a slightly lower price in this case, no one will be-----

Deputy, there is no provision to come back in. The point has been well made by you.

Sitting suspended at 4.25 p.m. and resumed at 4.30 p.m.
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