Leaders' Questions

Deputy Micheál Martin

The country is facing an unprecedented withdrawal of labour on the part of rank and file gardaí and higher-level sergeants and inspectors the day after tomorrow. This very dangerous situation is quite unprecedented. Since the foundation of the State, An Garda Síochána has been the glue that has held our society together through many dark moments. Indeed, many gardaí have given their lives in the course of their duties to protect their fellow citizens. Breaking the law is not intrinsic to them. It is the last thing they would want to do. In my view, it is dangerous and should not be an option. This strike should not go ahead because An Garda Síochána is truly the rock upon which our democracy is built. Having said that, this dispute has been allowed to drag on for far too long. The Garda Representative Association, GRA, was told it is not a trade union and was promised this, that and the other. However, it has been left at the back of a long queue for far too long. Rank and file gardaí feel isolated, demoralised and ignored. Their numbers have been depleted and their pay has been reduced. Their legitimate grievances have been compounded by the rudderless nature of the Department of Justice and Equality, which has had difficulties in filling top positions and, in terms of how Government works, essentially has not been in a position to deal with the issues that have affected gardaí in recent years. We are all very aware of those issues.

I put it to the Taoiseach that many people are quite fearful of what may ensue if the strike goes ahead. Should businesses, banks and post offices open? Citizens are fearful of what will transpire as they go about their daily lives. These issues have been left on the back burner for far too long. Why did it take so long to bring them to the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC? The resolution of this problem is now in the hands of the Labour Court. It is imperative that the recommendations of the Labour Court should be put to a ballot. All members of An Garda Síochána should be balloted on the court's recommendations. I ask the Taoiseach to indicate whether that is his understanding of what may transpire. It is nobody's interests, least of all those of An Garda Síochána, for a strike to take place on Friday.

I think every effort should now be made notwithstanding the belated nature of what has been going on in the past week. Every opportunity should be taken to ensure that this strike is averted. In my view, untold damage will be done and we must all collectively ensure that an institution of the State, which has been central to its foundation and emergence from the ashes of the Civil War and right through dark periods, is held intact and that the State responds to the situation that is now emerging.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Martin for raising this question. It is of the utmost seriousness for the country, for society and for the members of the Garda Síochána. The motto of the Garda, as everyone is aware, is to work within communities and to protect the public.

This matter has taken up a great deal of time from the point of view of the Government, particularly for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality. I share the deep concern of Members about the implications of possible industrial action by the GRA and the members of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, this Friday. The Cabinet discussed this in some considerable detail yesterday. It was briefed on the significant offer made in an attempt to resolve it. While we are anxious that the matter would be resolved, we have made it perfectly clear that this must be resolved within the constraints of the Lansdowne Road agreement.

For many years, members of An Garda Síochána have sought access to the institutions or machinery of the State in terms of settling disputes and dealing with matters relating to pay and conditions. Government has accepted that principle and the WRC has been available, as has been pointed out, on an ad hoc basis until we put in place the statutory issue to allow both the commission and the Labour Court to be available to them.

Deputy Martin is well aware that the WRC is a negotiating board whereas the Labour Court is a board of arbitration - it is the highest arbitration facility in the State. I hope that the GRA and the AGSI, whose representatives are meeting representatives of the Labour Court today, will listen carefully to what the court has to say. It is independent in the way that it does its duty. However, I have to point out that it is normal procedure, as it has been in many other cases in the past, where Labour Court officials become involved independently for them to suggest to people that they take a deep breath and stand back from the industrial action while the officials look at the issues involved. Those issues include access to the WRC and the Labour Court and questions about pay and the restoration of pay.

I do not want to say anything that would in any way disrupt the conversations taking place in the Labour Court today. The meetings that took place yesterday with the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, the GRA and the AGSI were good meetings. There were constructive and positive. There was a willingness to see that this matter might be resolved. No one in this country wants to see a situation where, for the first time ever, the entire Garda force, including members of the AGSI, will withdraw their services or not carry out their public duty. I do not want to see that happen and no one else wants to see that happen. This is a matter of the gravest seriousness but there is time for the proposed action to be postponed. I hope the Labour Court, given its independence, can realise that outcome following discussions with the GRA and the AGSI.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply, although it seems that the labour relations machinery should have been put at the disposal of those involved in this dispute far earlier. Can the Taoiseach confirm that it will be a permanent arrangement in terms of access to the industrial relations machinery? The reality is that they got left at the end of a long queue for far too long while the Government spoke to other unions and did deals with the unions in the past 12 months or so.

That is a factor in this dispute.

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has indicated that he is now contemplating bringing forward the completion date for the Lansdowne Road agreement. When this Government was formed, we were prepared to confirm our support for that agreement in the confidence-and-supply arrangement. Six months later, however, and in light of statements by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, it is clear that is beginning to unravel. Can the Taoiseach indicate whether the GRA and the AGSI will be included in the talks on the successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement that the Minister has indicated will be brought forward? Will the agreement be of a shorter duration than that originally envisaged by this Government? That is important for certainty and inclusivity and could prevent further issues down the line. Will the Taoiseach indicate the Government’s general position on the Lansdowne Road agreement and when we can expect to get the contingency plans if the strike goes ahead on Friday?

The Taoiseach

I know Deputy Martin raises this issue out of genuine concern that this industrial action should not take place and that the public can be assured that gardaí will do their duty as they always have done. Were this to happen on Friday, and I hope it does not, there will be no winners. It is always inevitable that in any industrial dispute nobody gets exactly what they are seeking. The arrangements made in respect of the deal on the table have been published and these would provide approximately €3,000 on average to members of the force in the next 15 months. That is in addition to the €1,000 that all public servants will receive under the Lansdowne Road agreement next September and to the increments restored to gardaí. New recruits would receive the rent allowance of €4,159.

Deputy Martin makes an important point. I recall when various arrangements for public pay and conditions were dealt with previously, gardaí always said they were outside the room, they had no input, no contribution to make and were not treated in the way they felt they should be. It is an important issue for gardaí. The Government has accepted the principle of having the machinery of the State available in the form of the WRC and the Labour Court. At yesterday's Cabinet meeting, I asked the Attorney General and the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality to move as quickly as possible to bring forward the heads of whatever legislative measure would be necessary to give effect to that. I am quite sure the House will support us.

Professor Horgan’s report, which is being examined and is due to be published by December, will feed into that presentation of the sort of structure of the road ahead and how that can happen. I would like it to happen as quickly as possible. I assure the Deputy that it is the absolute intention of the Government that this machinery should be available on a permanent basis to gardaí from now on, having been made available on an ad hoc basis on this occasion.

The work of the public sector pay commission is under way. The commission is quite entitled to contract for itself work on specific issues about Garda pay and conditions, nurses’ pay and conditions or anything else. That is entirely within its remit. It is well known that we have to have a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement. Normally, as one prepares for the budget in the way that business is now done, there is the spring statement and the national economic conference. These normally took place in May or June. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has indicated that he would like to see the commencement of debates and discussions about a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement sometime before then. I cannot give the Deputy an exact date but that is the Minister's intention. I do not want to say anything now that would disrupt the conversations that will happen with the GRA, the AGSI and the Labour Court, which is the highest arbitration body in the country. I do hope and appeal again to people on all sides, that if it is the independent view of the Labour Court that gardaí should resile from industrial action on Friday, they would do so and have the court examine independently the issues on the table.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I gave the Taoiseach a bit of leeway because of the importance of the topic.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Leas Ceann Comhairle.

Deputy Gerry Adams

As the Taoiseach has acknowledged, the State faces an unprecedented crisis in policing.

The Taoiseach has made an appeal to those on all sides. However, the Government is on one of those sides. We have known of this pending crisis for months but the Government failed to actively seek an early resolution. Many people are asking why everything is always left to the last minute. The Government allowed the summer to pass with no real effort made to engage in dialogue with the Garda representative bodies. The pay proposals the Taoiseach enumerated again today - which were put recently and belatedly by the Government - have been roundly rejected. The AGSI, described them as inequitable. The executive committee of the GRA unanimously rejected the proposed deal and said the Government's proposals were not acceptable to its members. Both unions, therefore, have given a resounding "No" to the Taoiseach's proposals.

Why is the Government not listening to what rank and file gardaí are telling him? Last night's intervention by the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, where she warned that gardaí participating in Friday's strike will have their pay docked, and her threat to make officers liable for any damages that occur were unhelpful and, if I may say so, totally unnecessary. The Taoiseach is in touch with rank and file gardaí, as is everybody here. He knows the fear that is in communities and he must know that it is his Government's negative stance on pay for members of An Garda Síochána and teachers - and, potentially, doctors and nurses - that is fuelling Friday's strike action and the action planned by teachers on Monday because he has refused to commit to the principle of equal pay for equal work.

As we all acknowledge, citizens and communities are understandably worried by the implications of Friday's strike. The Garda bodies are with the Labour Court today. We await the outcome of that process. The Government has given a signal that An Garda Síochána will have access to the industrial relations mechanisms of the State. That needs to be a legal right. Will the Taoiseach give a firm date for the publication of the necessary legislation to provide gardaí with access to the WRC and the Labour Court?

The Taoiseach

No. I cannot give the Deputy that date but I have already informed Deputy Martin that the Government has decided that gardaí should have access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court as a matter of course. To make that happen, the work of Professor Horgan must be completed. The professor's report is due in December and will feed into the work of the public sector pay commission. I have asked the Attorney General to examine the question of making preparations in respect of the legal instruments or legislation that will have to be prepared in order to allow gardaí have access, as a matter of course, to the WRC and to the Labour Court. This is the first time this has ever happened and, as I pointed out previously, on all other occasions gardaí have said that they were outside the room, they had no input or contribution and that their voices were not being heard. They are being heard now and I do not want to disrupt anything the Labour Court might say today.

The Government has approached these negotiations in a spirit of genuinely trying to resolve this issue. I recognise that the Garda Representative Association people have devoted themselves exhaustively in attempting to look after their members' interests but I want to put on the record that there is one issue from which we cannot escape. There are 280,000 other public servants who have signed up for a deal under the Lansdowne Road agreement. We have to treat everybody in the same way. We do not have the resources to pay all the demands relating to all of these claims, be they from gardaí, nurses, teachers or whatever. However, we have agreements with major unions in respect of the constraints that were imposed upon Government because of the Lansdowne Road agreement. The Deputy does not want to see a situation arise where Government was to go back to what applied in previous years, which caused all of these difficulties in the first instance. We value gardaí. We appreciate the work they have done. We appreciate the fact that they give time, over and above duty on many occasions, to serve the public, and I want to see that happen on Friday. I hope the discussions today between the GRA and the AGSI with the Labour Court will bring about that situation. It is not just a signal we are sending here; it is a firm commitment to make arrangements for gardaí to have access to the WRC and the Labour Court.

I cannot give the Deputy an exact date except to say that it is my intention to see that it happens as quickly as possible and if there is a requirement to bring it before the House, I am sure the members of the different parties will be supportive of that.

Deputy Gerry Adams

A firm commitment without a firm date, as the Taoiseach will be aware, is basically meaningless. Many sectors of society have suffered in the bust organised courtesy of Fianna Fáil and the Green Party and also as a result of the Taoiseach's austerity policies, but it is no accident that those who heal, those who care, those who teach and those who guard the peace who are in their jobs almost as a vocation are treated the way they are being treated. The principle of equal pay for equal work is a simple proposition, not that a person could be employed with someone else who is doing exactly the same job and is getting paid much less than him or her.

The Government has not dealt with this issue with the urgency that it deserved. I hope that the strike on Friday will be averted but the issues involved which underpin it, like the other issues, need to be dealt with, and that includes the planned teachers' strike on Monday. What the vast majority of these public servants want and deserve is the firm and timely unwinding of the financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI, cuts and the pay restoration which they need. I make the case that their demands are reasonable.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality stated contingency plans are in place for the planned strike by gardaí. Will the Taoiseach spell out what these are? The Tánaiste also said that the Defence Forces will be on standby as an aid to the civil power. Will the Taoiseach tell us what that means?

The Taoiseach

I respectfully disagree with Deputy Adams. A firm commitment without a date, he says, is irrelevant. The fact is that for the first time the members of An Garda Síochána have access to the State machinery of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Labour Court. This is not a once-off. While it is on an ad hoc basis, it is a sign of commitment and the building of trust between Government and gardaí that this will become a matter of course in any future requirements that gardaí will have in regard to issues that are normally dealt with by the WRC and the Labour Court.

In regard to the issue on Friday, I am reminded that when gardaí come through from Templemore and graduate, they sign an oath in respect of the public participation of what their motto is to the Commissioner of the day. The Commissioner has directed that gardaí would turn up for work on Friday and it is an individual matter and decision for each individual garda, as has been pointed out by the Garda Representative Association, GRA. In the interests of the country, in the interests of the safety of the public and in the interests of the force itself, I hope that this strike and industrial action is averted on Friday.

I do not want to comment on the details of any contingency arrangements, but Deputy Adams should be clear on this. There are contingency arrangements that have been put in place by the Commissioner and senior Garda management, and that is a matter of day-to-day running, but it is difficult to have withdrawn more than 12,500 personnel on any one day and expect the system to operate 100% as one would wish. I hope this can be averted and that it will not happen on Friday.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Short of a breakthrough at the Labour Court today, we are all now expecting a full Garda strike on Friday. A total of 564 Garda stations throughout the country will lie empty. Serious questions about the safety of our communities deserve a more forthcoming response than we have yet received. Things look no better on the schools front with the possibility that 507 second level schools will lie empty from next week, potentially for an indefinite period.

It goes without saying that we in the Labour Party hopes a resolution will be found with gardaí today. We believe it did not need to be like this.

For weeks now Deputy Howlin has proposed a range of alternatives. The most significant of these is the establishment of a social dialogue that would involve public servants in discussions relating to public service provision as well as pay. That proposal is now receiving widespread support. As the architect of the Haddington Road and the Lansdowne Road agreements, the Deputy has also argued that we need to begin negotiations formally for a successor deal to the Lansdowne Road agreement. That would accelerate pay restoration for all public servants. Finally, yesterday we at least received confirmation that this will happen during 2017.

We have also argued, and the Seanad has agreed to this, that an employer labour conference should be established. It is our view that the Government has waited too long to take any meaningful action. We keep hearing the mantra that the Lansdowne Road agreement is the only show in town. As I have made clear, we hope that a resolution will be found with gardaí today, but even if that is the case, at this stage it is abundantly clear that the Government's mantra is not good enough. We need mechanisms that will avoid such disputes from becoming increasingly common. We need to keep teachers in classrooms, nurses in hospitals and gardaí on the beat. The more than 300,000 public servants who work in various sectors need to be at work and not on strike.

During the worst period of our history we managed to preserve industrial peace. It is beyond belief how the Government has allowed this situation to regress so rapidly. This week the impact of industrial unrest seems likely to become very real.

My questions to the Taoiseach are as follows. Of the range of ideas proposed by the Labour Party to prevent growing industrial unrest, will he seriously consider any of them? Will he explain how the outworkings of the public service pay commission will feed into the potential successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement, if at all? Will he provide more detailed information on the contingency arrangements that are being put in place in the event of a strike on Friday?

The Taoiseach

It is not a case of this being left until the very last moment. Clearly, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has pointed out on many occasions the constraints that are upon Government in respect of the Lansdowne Road agreement. The Government yesterday was unanimous that we have to stand by the Lansdowne Road agreement and that this dispute must be settled within that, as must the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland, ASTI, dispute. There can be no equivocation about that. Some 280,000 other public servants have signed up, and can see the benefits of so doing, to a path and a strategy towards an improvement in pay and conditions in the time ahead.

In respect of the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court, it is important to point out that when that mechanism becomes the norm for gardaí - I want it to happen as quickly as possible with whatever legislative means are required, and Professor Horgan's work will feed into that - that will give gardaí the same arbitration mechanism as any and every other worker in the country, which is an important element of the claim made by gardaí for very many years, namely, that they were excluded from all of these areas.

In respect of the discussions the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has had, he made accessible whatever flexibility was available to him inside the Lansdowne Road agreement, including the pooling of the rent allowance into the basic income, the opportunity therefore to have a higher level of overtime paid, the €1,000 that is available to every other worker in the Lansdowne Road agreement and the recommendation from Mr. Olson of the Garda Inspectorate in regard to the parade allowance. These are generous improvements to the current situation and within the Lansdowne Road agreement for every garda.

The public service pay commission will feed into the overall situation.

The public pay commission, as I said to Deputy Martin and Deputy Adams, is entitled to commission work in respect of specific issues such as pay and conditions for gardaí or whatever else and it will generally feed into the preparation for the discussions that will follow the Lansdowne Road agreement. When the Minister for Finance sets out his ceilings for the 2018 budget, the earlier we bring forward a situation to have a successor agreement, the earlier every Department will pull from whatever that pot might be. The intention is to start the discussions and negotiations about a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement whenever both the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Finance are in a position to set out that ceiling. As we prepare for the 2018 budget, there will be the spring economic statement and the general economic conference.

We have set up the employer labour conference and I had a meeting with it a couple of weeks back. It was a very good meeting. The point it made was that it was not a negotiating forum but a very good opportunity to express the position in so far as workers and employers are concerned.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

On the issue of the contingency arrangements, we all appreciate there is only so much information the Taoiseach can put into the public domain. It could be argued that the information the Taoiseach is providing us with today is not enough to allay the fears of people in communities throughout Ireland. People need to know if the phone will be answered on Friday and by whom. People need to know who will respond if someone's house is broken into or if a neighbourhood watch programme reports a local crime. These are all simple questions being asked by people in communities today. I am asking the Taoiseach if he could give us more detailed information while taking into account there are certain security issues involved, if he could make available to the House the range of contingency arrangements, and if he could be a bit more generous in terms of what it is that is being proposed in this regard.

The Taoiseach

I do not want to go into the details of contingency arrangements when the Labour Court is sitting in an effort to resolve this dispute so as not to have industrial action take place on Friday. I met the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Garda Commissioner and her senior staff during the course of the week and asked that question about contingency arrangements. The Garda Commissioner, who is responsible for the day-to-day running of the Garda, will obviously make available whatever resources are available to her. That is being followed through by superintendents contacting each individual garda about their requirements for work on Friday. They will deal with sergeants, inspectors and members of the Garda. Every superintendent will have contacted them personally within their station areas so there will be a figure as to what numbers will be available on Friday. The numbers available to the Garda Commissioner will include superintendents and, where appropriate, probationary gardaí or recruits.

The Garda Representative Association has already indicated the emergency response unit and the armed regional support units will be asked to report for duty as normal. It wants to see special arrangements in respect of the national surveillance unit and the technical bureau. These units are at the heart of any response to a threat that arises to the protection of the State in so far as the Garda is concerned.

The Commissioner moved yesterday to have every garda contacted. The Commissioner is also endeavouring to prioritise certain areas, including armed response, community safety and protection, which involves the operation of the 999 facilities, security and intelligence, and maintaining a presence at airports and ports to ensure they continue to operate normally. Calls will be answered when calls come in as they do every day, even with the full force on duty.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Tá an t-am caite.

The Taoiseach

I have one final point. Discussions have been going on between both the Garda and military authorities about contingencies. There is no question of the Defence Forces undertaking the duties or work of the Garda Síochána. They are only an aid to the civil power and would only stand in as an aid to the civil power were that necessary.

Obviously there have been discussions with financial institutions in so far as cash transactions and so forth are concerned, but I do not wish to say anything further about it. It is unfortunate, but I hope the Labour Court, in the discussions on the genuine perspectives of both the Government and the Garda Representative Association spokespersons-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Taoiseach must conclude.

The Taoiseach

-----will be able to deliberate in a way today that can avert the threatened industrial action on Friday.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am too generous with time, but it is important. I call Deputy Bríd Smith.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I hope you will be as generous with me, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. There is a huge irony which I hope is not lost on the Members of the House. It certainly is not lost on teachers. Members of the AGSI and the GRA are the same people who will be vetting parents and others to do the work of teachers from Monday, when teachers will refuse to do work for which they are not paid. To correct some of what other Deputies have said, there is no action or strike planned by teachers on Monday. What is happening on Monday is that the Minister is refusing to pay members of the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland, ASTI, for supervisory duties. If the schools close in that scenario, the Taoiseach, Government and the Minister are responsible for that closure, not the members of the ASTI. That must be made clear.

This is a sideshow. The members of the ASTI took a day's action just over a week ago for pay equality. It has been extraordinary to listen to the depths that journalists and others have gone to in an effort to get the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, to state that he believes in equality. "Equality" is a simple, popular, profound word in human society, but the Minister will not say it. He will not acknowledge that he supports pay equality. It appears that, should the Labour Court bring forward a recommendation that satisfies the gardaí and they do not go on strike, there is a deliberate attempt by the Government to isolate members of the ASTI and to paint the ASTI as a dodgy organisation. In fact, it is extremely democratic. There are 180 elected members on its executive, its president is a lay teacher rather than a trade union official and the union consults constantly with its members. Its sin, however, is that it did not vote to stay in the Lansdowne Road pay agreement. On Monday, the terms the members of the ASTI adhered to under the Croke Park agreement will no longer be adhered to because the members are outside the Lansdowne Road agreement. Is it not more irony that the State is willing to pay parents and others €36 per week, as opposed to €15 per week, to carry out the supervisory duty? The Irish Examiner reports this morning that it would cost €70 million in total, less than 1% of the education budget, to restore full pay parity for all teachers.

Does the Taoiseach support equality in pay? Is he for the restoration of full pay equality to all teachers, regardless of their trade union membership, and to nurses and gardaí? Does he believe in equality and does he wish to see it restored? If so, is there any way he can extract from the Minister's mouth that he, too, believes in it? If not, perhaps before the Taoiseach leaves office, and I see he is being celebrated on RTE, he might make the statement: "I believe in equality". Otherwise, it is the equivalent of saying to Rosa Parks, when she got on a bus all those years ago to demand equality in public transport, that she is entitled to one fifth of a seat, not the full seat.

The Taoiseach

Equality is at the very centre of the work the Government tries to do across a range of spheres. I am disappointed that the ASTI has taken a day's action-----

Deputy Bríd Smith

It has not taken a day's action.

The Taoiseach

-----and that others will follow. It is important to note that there are two disputes causing industrial action on the part of the ASTI at present. The first relates to the withdrawal from supervision and substitution, which is likely to cause indefinite closures from 7 November on, affecting over 250,000 students and parents. That is the result of the ASTI's withdrawal from carrying out the 33 hours per year under the Croke Park agreement. There is a deal on the table which will see payments for supervision and substitution restored, as well as a number of other benefits to ASTI members, if they agree to carry out the 33 hours under the Croke Park agreement and suspend their industrial action. At the heart of that dispute is less than an hour per week, agreed in previous public pay deals, to allow schools to host planning meetings and parent-teacher meetings outside school hours.

I am sure the Deputy would agree with it. Similar hours are worked across the public service. Most public servants agreed to work 100 extra hours per year, as against 33 in the education sector. The Deputy is aware that the TUI and INTO have already negotiated an agreement and are benefitting from the Landsdowne Road agreement.

The dispute which caused the one-day stoppage last week was about new-entrant teachers. There is a deal on offer to the ASTI which would see increases of 15% and 22% for new entrant teachers with further benefits in working conditions and a route to a further possible improvement through the public pay commission, which is entitled to do a specific analysis of teacher pay and conditions. The deals being paid to the TUI and INTO are available to ASTI. The starting figures will increase by 15% between August of this year and 1 January 2018, from €31,000 to €35,600. An individual member recruited since 1 September 2015 will see a 22% increase in pay from 31 August this year to 1 January 2018, from €31,000 to €37,700. The ASTI's decision to withdraw from supervision and substitution was a unilateral decision which deprived its members of benefits. If it reversed the ban, the benefits would be available to them forthwith. The agreements reached with the TUI and INTO speak for themselves.

Deputy Bríd Smith

For the benefit of everybody who needs to understand, I repeat, should the schools close on Monday indefinitely, it will be due not to the action of the teachers but of the Government. The ASTI is not planning action. Its members are just not working for something for which they are not getting paid. None of us here is working for something for which he or she is not getting paid. Very few people do. We are witnessing major anger at the slow unwinding of the FEMPI legislation. Nurses have to work an extra shift every six weeks under appallingly stressful conditions in a creaking health service that does not even allow nurses to work at an even pace when they are working for pay. This will spread across the public sector. It will not stay confined to teachers. There is a high level of disgruntlement and it boils down to equality. Teachers are working alongside people who are doing the same job on a completely different pay scale.

Equality must be restored not gradually but fully. You do not give Rosa Parks one fifth of a seat on the bus; you give her a whole seat, if you believe she should be treated equally. When women were fighting for equal pay, the Government would never have suggested giving them a portion of the pay they were entitled to. The Government should make a commitment to give full equal pay and set a date when it will be implemented. The dispute on Monday is not about teachers withdrawing. They are just refusing to work for nothing. The Government is closing the schools, and it must acknowledge this.

The Taoiseach

Again, the Deputy has deliberately missed the point. The ASTI's decision to withdraw from supervision and substitution is the cause of a situation in which boards of management are unable to keep schools open due to health and safety reasons.

Deputy Bríd Smith

The Government should pay them for doing the work.

The Taoiseach

Due to this decision, more than 250,000 pupils and their parents could be inconvenienced on an ongoing basis. Although supervision and substitution were part of the agreement heretofore, the ASTI, for its own reasons, decided to withdraw from it. The agreement was to work 33 hours extra per year, or one hour per week. Most other public servants agreed to work 100 extra hours per year. If the ASTI wants to have the substitution and supervision money paid to its members, all it has to do is reverse the ban, which it decided on. The closure of the schools was not directed or caused by the Minister for Education and Skills. The boards of management are responsible for opening schools, and they cannot open them if there is not proper supervision for the children who attend. The ASTI could deal with the issue today. The question of the pay for new entrants has already been outlined.

I hope we can again have a situation where the ASTI would reflect on what the Teachers Union of Ireland and Irish National Teachers Organisation have done in sitting down, balloting their members and agreeing to receive the benefits they are now receiving. Those benefits are available to the ASTI in the same way. This is about the country moving forward as a country and not for any individual sectoral gain. Again, we cannot step outside the Lansdowne Road agreement.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Nov 2016