I call the Government Chief Whip to move a proposal arising out of today's Business Committee meeting.
Business of Dáil
I wish to raise a question concerning the order. I was at the Business Committee, which agreed to allow this matter to be brought before the House. I am not aware that everybody in the House is aware that this motion is to be brought before us. The schedule for the week is set on Tuesday. I do not know whether it was circulated to all Members, so I do not know whether they are aware it is happening. I am aware but it is a query.
I can confirm that a schedule was circulated to everybody this morning in the normal way.
We were here late last night.
We were.
When a Deputy raised the question of how to change the order last night so that we could suspend, they were told that we could not do that and that a meeting of the Business Committee was needed. We had a meeting this morning to deal with this issue but no attempt was made to have a meeting of the committee to suspend the business last night so that we could bring it into today. There is a problem there and we need to find some mechanism whereby changes to the order we decide on Tuesday can be made on an ongoing basis rather than having to hold a meeting of the Business Committee.
I thank Deputy Ó Snodaigh for his intervention.
I understand it was circulated at 11.40 a.m. this morning.
Quite possibly.
That is not good enough because I am a member of the Business Committee and I was unaware that this was coming up, so I could not tell the people in my group or, indeed, Deputies beyond it. This is one of the most fundamental and central issues relating to what has been happening in this Dáil since we got elected. This is really what one would call pulling a fast one and it is not fair. When I stand up here to raise stuff on the Order of Business, as other Deputies do, we are constantly told that it has been agreed and done at the Business Committee, end of. All of a sudden, the Business Committee, or at least the Government Chief Whip, changes the Order of Business we agreed on Tuesday and tells us at 11.40 a.m. this morning when we have been up until 3 a.m. and we are supposed to accept that as fair treatment. It is not. It is grossly unfair. It is pulling a fast one.
I know other Deputies want to come in but to set the record straight, if we were here until 3 a.m., it was because Deputies continued to offer to speak and because the Business Committee decided that there should be no guillotine on the Finance Bill. I recall pointing out to Deputies at 9.50 p.m. that if we continued to deal with the business in the way we were, we had a further seven hours business to do at that stage, so that business was ordered by the Business Committee with Deputy Bríd Smith and Deputy Ó Snodaigh in attendance. I think it was Deputy Ó Snodaigh who raised the question about whether or not there would be guillotines.
I did not have a problem with it-----
The Deputy did not have a problem. That is very good. In respect of-----
The Ceann Comhairle is making my case.
The issue that is now before us was brought in an open and transparent manner before the Business Committee this morning. It was discussed. Deputy Bríd Smith was conscious of it because she asked whether we could have a debate about the matter and a decision was arrived at. Deputy Barry is indicating-----
The Ceann Comhairle will confirm that I left this room and came back in to ask him. I told him that Martina Fitzgerald from RTE had tweeted that this was coming up-----
The Deputy certainly did.
-----and that I was confused. I did not really understand. When Deputy Regina Doherty spoke at the Business Committee this morning and said she was raising this issue, we were in the middle of discussing what is coming up next week. In my naivety and "brand newness", I understood that this was coming up next week. Therefore, I think it is objectionable to pull a fast one by issuing this at 11.40 a.m. when we agreed the Order of Business on Tuesday and it was not raised.
The Business Committee transacts its business in a fair, open and very accessible manner. It is not fair to allege that Deputy Bríd Smith's colleagues - all the other members of the Business Committee - were in some way involved in some sort of subterfuge to delude her as to what the business was.
I did not say that all my colleagues here-----
The Deputy has made her point.
I reinforce the point. Let us be quite clear about what is going on here. This is an attempt on the part of the Government with the support of Fianna Fáil to pull a really sly one on the issue of the establishment of the joint committee on the future funding of domestic water services. Let us spell out what is happening here. The motion that is being put states that "the Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be Senator Pádraig Ó Céidigh." In other words, the Government over there with the support of Fianna Fáil over here, the Ceann Comhairle should allow me to continue-----
There is no provision for a debate at this time. If Members want to raise a point of order - I take it that it is a point of order - by all means, they should make a point of order. Otherwise-----
This is a point of order.
No, he is going into the detail of the proposal.
It is an important point.
There are many important points that may need to be raised. Will Deputy Barry conclude?
On a point of order, a committee was established in this House earlier in the lifetime of this Dáil - the Committee on Housing and Homelessness. The chairperson of this committee was not appointed by the Government after a back room conversation with Fianna Fáil. The chairperson of that committee was elected.
There was no-----
The Minister should not interrupt me. The chairperson of that committee was elected. What is being proposed here is that the Government will pick the chairperson of the committee.
The Deputy has made his point so will he resume his seat?
I have not finished my point because there is a context to this.
He has. Can we have order?
I have not completed my point.
I have allowed the Deputy loads of time.
Deputy Barry is saying that it is a breach with previous committees.
He has made that point.
I have further points to make about it.
No. A point of order is something that is made briefly and succinctly. Deputy Barry has made his point. He wants to get into the committee-----
I have not completed my point.
The Deputy wants to get into a political debate. A motion will be brought before us which the Deputy can vote for or against, as he chooses, but we are not going any further down that road.
The motion should not be put today.
I do not want to be at odds with Deputy Barry. Will he resume his seat?
I will not resume my seat until such time as-----
We cannot have that type of approach to our business. We conduct our business here in a professional and parliamentary fashion. This is not the marketplace. I ask Deputy Barry to resume his seat or I will be forced to suspend the House. I cannot tolerate Members treating their colleagues and the House in such a disrespectful manner.
(Interruptions).
I am not talking to Deputy Coppinger. I ask Deputy Barry to resume his seat. I suspend the House.
Sitting suspended at 1.08 p.m. and resumed at 1.20 p.m.
I will take two points of order from Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett and the Minister of State, Deputy Regina Doherty.
I will make this brief. Earlier it was essentially suggested that if we had spoken less in the debate on the Finance Bill last night, we would not have this problem. I object to that logic because we have a job - a solemn responsibility, I argue - to scrutinise legislation, in particular something as important as the Finance Bill. Any suggestion we should have hurried things up to avoid being here until 3 a.m. is not really appropriate. Given that the debate ran on until 3 a.m., much later than anybody would have anticipated in the discussion at the Business Committee, it was entirely reasonable when we were dealing with legislation dealing with as important and as complex matters as finance and tax to say, "Listen, we are not doing justice to this at this hour of the night." It is not fair to use strict procedural arguments when things ran on much later than anticipated or to suggest we should have rushed things in order that we would not be in this dilemma. Against that background, we get late notice of this motion which, by any stretch of the imagination, deals with a controversial issue. We got last minute notice of a change to deal with a highly controversial issue and most Deputies did not know until 11.40 a.m. In that context, it is perfectly legitimate to protest about the manner in which the motion has been taken.
This is my point of order. I have been accused this morning of pulling a fast and a sly one and not adhering to proper procedures. I would like both comments about my reputation withdrawn. Let me be very clear. Every single party and none in this House negotiated and discussed the establishment of the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services with the Minister and his officials. Even though Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett's representative on the Business Committee was not aware of it, his party was involved in the discussions. The recommendations to form the committee were brought to the Committee on Dáil Reform on Tuesday and the notice to have it on the business agenda this morning was sent to the Business Committee. Every Member received notification of the agenda yesterday. The green document we all received this morning was published and printed last night and issued this morning.
At what time yesterday?
There was no attempt to do anything other than follow normal procedure, as we always do in this House. The problem is that Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett and his party members do not know what normal procedure is.
At what time was it sent?
Please withdraw the two slanderous remarks made about my reputation and how I do my job in this House.