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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Dec 2016

Vol. 931 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Land Acquisition

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this important issue. It is one I raised previously when I was a Member of the Seanad and, indeed, it has been raised by many members of the local authority in County Meath, including by my colleague, Councillor Sean Smith. It is an issue related to the continuation of the good relations the community has with the Department of Education and Skills in Ashbourne. It is fair to say that. While not everything is perfect in regard to schooling in Ashbourne, there have been significant improvements. Many buildings have gone up and schools are pretty happy with them. As a result, a substantial 16 acres of land in the ownership of the Department of Education and Skills is now available on either side of a main road in Ashbourne. Local authority members, including my colleague, Councillor Smith, and organisations such as the Ashbourne Playspace Network would love to see the land come into local ownership. It is already in public ownership, but they would have to see it come into local ownership to form part of what is called the "linear park" for Ashbourne. This land would be a significant amount of land for a park.

Ashbourne is a town with a population of approximately 11,000 at the time of the last census and, obviously, there are surrounding areas too. The town has no public park and limited green space. It is a burning desire of the people, as Deputy McEntee will also know, to have their own park. This issue goes back over many years to flawed development plans which did not provide enough parkland. While improvements are being made and there is currently a Part 8 planning application in regard to a linear park in Ashbourne, the land the Department of Education and Skills owns would be a significant addition and would improve the town no end. It would contribute to national objectives on healthier living, getting together with friends, exercising dogs and doing things people should be able to enjoy. I am sure that if the Department wants the schools to have a special role on the land, there would be no objection. That is a matter for another day.

Shortly after I raised the matter in the Seanad a year and a half ago, the Department met the local authority and an evaluation report was carried out. I understand that talks have taken place between the local authority and the Department of Education and Skills, which is welcome and encouraging. While I am happy with that, we would like to see some finality on this. It is within the gift of the Department for this to happen and I would love to see an imaginative arrangement to ensure that it goes ahead and that a park is available for the town which, in every other respect, is a fantastic place to live. A few years ago, it was given the Retail Excellence Ireland award for fourth-best town for shopping in Ireland. In fairness, there has been a huge investment in the cycle lanes and schools in Ashbourne. By and large, it is a pretty good place to live and we are just trying to tidy up some pretty important aspects of it, including the provision of a park. Everybody will work together on it. I would be delighted to hear the Minister of State's response on what is a net issue yet one which would have significant benefits and good consequences for the public if there were final movement on it.

Meath County Council has plans to develop a linear park in Ashbourne. The development of a portion of land alongside the Broadmeadow River, which is in the ownership of the Minister for Education and Skills, is incorporated in the plans for the park. The land is part of two portions of land in Ashbourne acquired by my Department to meet school accommodation requirements in the town. One of these portions was acquired for the purpose of providing school accommodation for Coláiste De Lacy, Gaelscoil na Mí and Ashbourne Educate Together national school. The second portion, adjacent to the new campus, was acquired to facilitate access to the permanent site and to provide temporary accommodation for the post-primary school during construction.

Permanent accommodation for all three schools has now been provided on the campus site. Construction of the first phase of Coláiste De Lacy is complete and the school is in operation. A design team is working on phase 2, which will increase capacity to 1,000 pupils. Construction is also complete on a new permanent 16-classroom building for Gaelscoil na Mí and a new permanent 16-classroom building for Ashbourne Educate Together national school.

Some of the lands in the Minister's ownership or that of the Department adjacent to the new Ashbourne school campus will be surplus to the requirements of the Department. They include lands incorporated into Meath County Council's plan for the development of the linear park. My Department is considering the future use and disposal of the surplus land. Any such disposal would be conducted in accordance with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform Circulars 11, 15 and 17 of 2016.

On the transfer and disposal of State assets, officials in Meath County Council previously made my Department aware of the proposal for the linear park in Ashbourne and meetings were held to discuss the development. There has been ongoing positive and constructive engagement between officials of my Department and Meath County Council in that regard. Officials of the Department met senior officials in Meath County Council within the past month to determine how best to progress matters, with a view to facilitating the linear park. At that meeting it was agreed that my Department would work closely with officials in Meath County Council and keep them apprised of developments.

As an alternative to direct purchase by Meath County Council of the lands at market value, officials of my Department are exploring possible mechanisms to facilitate the mutual objectives of the delivery of the linear park and the achievement of value for money for the Exchequer. My officials will engage further with officials of Meath County Council as the matter progresses. It will be sorted out within a relatively short period following the completion of the ongoing negotiations. The development of the schools and community amenities is at the heart of sustainable community development. Officials of my Department will continue to engage with officials in Meath County Council to advance the matter.

I thank the Minister of State for what he has said and the positive and constructive approach the Department has taken which I noted in my initial contribution. He believes the matter will be sorted out and has said the Department is examining various mechanisms to ensure we can have a linear park. I also understand the Department's concerns about ensuring value for money from its point of view. It is encouraging that the issue is being examined closely. The Department can see not only its responsibilities in terms of the value of the land but also its wider responsibilities to the community in meeting the needs of the town of Ashbourne where many people will be extremely pleased about this, given the work they have done. Many voluntary groups, in particular those involving young mothers, have worked very hard to try to advance the project. They have pushed politicians to highlight the matter to ensure the project will be delivered. As I said, Councillor Sean Smith and others have paid particular attention to it. We will take the response in a positive manner and allow negotiations to continue. I appreciate that negotiations on land are sensitive. We cannot jump up and down in the Dáil about every last detail and I will not do so. I will take the news of a positive approach home with me and share it with those in my constituency. They will be very happy and patient in allowing the process to play out, knowing that the Department and Meath County Council will continue their engagement which, up to now, has been constructive. We will await further developments.

There are two sites involved, sites A and B, the owners of one of which went into receivership. There is a road through the land. People might ask why the Department will not transfer lands needed for the linear park to Meath County Council for a nominal sum. As the Deputy knows, the land was acquired for a considerable sum of money and the Department is, therefore, seeking to ensure the moneys paid for the surplus land can be recouped in full in facilitating the progression of the linear park project within a short timeframe. The Department has told me the mechanisms that can be used to facilitate the linear park project, while also ensuring the Exchequer will obtain the best value for money. They are being explored. As I said, based on my information and given the ongoing discussions and so on, I am hopeful some conclusion can be reached by the Department and Meath County Council within a short period.

Home Care Packages Provision

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Helen McEntee, for coming to the House to answer my issue.

In an ideal world most of us would like to think that, when the time comes, we would have the means to care for ageing family members who, if given the choice, would prefer to remain in their own home rather than be placed in a hospital or nursing home. There is a crisis in the provision of home care packages across the country. Hours and packages have been cruelly cut for those in society who are most vulnerable. I refer to my constituency, Roscommon-Galway, where I hear about this problem in every clinic. Rather than knock the Government, I will provide the Minister of State with some examples and I am sure she will see exactly from where I am coming.

I was approached recently by a family in my constituency clinic. They are caring at home for their mother who is terminally ill with cancer. They asked for more hours as her condition had worsened. We asked for a review of the case to gain more hours to help the family. When the review took place, despite desperately needing the hours already allocated, the family actually lost some of them.

I am aware of another sad case. A wife is looking after her husband who needs two people with him at all times owing to his very serious condition. She and her daughter lovingly provide 24-hour care for their loved one. They had been allocated a carer for four hours on a Wednesday in order that one of them could go shopping, collect a pension payment and prescriptions and carry out other jobs in the local town. These hours are no longer available to the family who have been left without help or a respite care service.

The figures may indicate that there has been an increase in the number of hours available in some areas - that may be the case - but I assure the Minister of State that the number of families who are looking for an allocation of hours has increased dramatically owing to overcrowding in hospitals and the cost of nursing home care. In most cases, as has been proved beyond doubt, families want to look after a person in the comfort of his or her own home. This saves the State a significant amount of money in the long term. However, the way families and patients seeking home care packages are being treated is a disgrace. I cannot see the logic in removing home care hours from families who are trying to do their best for their loved ones. The lack of hours is causing further congestion in hospitals and means that vital beds are being taken up by patients who could be cared for in their homes if there was a comprehensive home care package in place when leaving hospital. It does not make sense that the number of home care packages is being cut and hours are not being allocated to other families in desperate need of help in caring for their loved ones. As the Minister of State knows, there is a problem with overcrowding in hospitals. One very quick and ideal solution would be to extend the number of home care packages available and provide support for families to look after their loved ones in the comfort of their own homes.

I recently became aware of another case in which a wife, a full-time carer for her husband, had become extremely ill. She had a stroke and has been in intensive care in hospital for a number of weeks. I was amazed to hear that the HSE services operating in the area only allocated one hour to enable somebody to look after a very sick man, even though his wife had been caring for him full-time. The system does not make sense. I plead with the Minister of State to take on board what I am saying and offer some hope and comfort to many genuine people who are in very serious difficulties because of the cutbacks.

I thank the Deputy for raising an issue which is raised continually in the House because of its importance. We know that it is one that needs to be addressed.

We all share the same common objective, namely, improving the quality of life for older people. It is not just older people who need support and services; people who are sick or those with disabilities also need help. The funding available for services for older people stands at almost €740 million this year. It is used to provide a range of services across the community and is focused on ensuring older people have timely access to and are provided with appropriate care and treatment at the lowest level of complexity and as close to home as possible. Home care services are critical in supporting older people to remain in their homes and communities and maintain their independence for as long as possible, which is better for them. As we know, they are happier when they are in their own home.

It also makes sense, as the Deputy has pointed out, to avoid admissions to acute hospitals. Further, many people can be supported at home at a far lower cost than that of residential care. We also know that home care services need to be put in place where residential care is not possible as well.

The HSE’s national service plan for 2016 originally provided for a target of 10.4 million home help hours to support about 47,800 people. It provided for 15,450 home care packages and approximately 130 intensive home care packages for clients with complex needs. A further 60 clients with dementia will be supported with co-funding from Atlantic Philanthropies under the national dementia strategy. This matched levels of provision in 2015. However, and I know the Deputy understands this, services are being stretched by demands from more people with the number increasing weekly and for more hours in the evenings and at weekends, all of which unfortunately cost more. This means that even maintaining services at last year's level would have resulted in service delivery failure this year, which is why we responded by providing an extra €40 million.

While we are saying it is an additional €40 million, it does not necessarily mean there will be additional services and supports. It is to maintain last year's level. This brings the overall budget for home help and home care packages to approximately €339 million, which is not enough, but our A Programme for a Partnership Government commits to increasing that funding year on year. With that funding, the HSE will now provide an additional or extra 133,000 home help hours and 350 home care packages this year. In addition the HSE’s winter initiative plan provides for an extra 950 home care packages with 50 packages coming on stream each week over the winter initiative period.

Community Health Organisation 2, which includes Roscommon, Galway and Mayo, is prioritising home care services to those who are currently in a hospital or in a community hospital step down facility. The HSE is providing a significant level of service for the area and it is projected that the HSE will deliver 1,193 home care packages and about 1.32 million home help hours by the end of the year. I will try to get more of an update in the coming weeks, but last week there were six people registered as requiring home care services waiting to be discharged within Community Health Organisation 2. The applications for all six are being processed by HSE community services at this time.

It is important to emphasise that management currently has a difficulty in that it has to be prudent with resources as demand for the service increases, but it will continue to work to apply available resources to target those with the greatest need most effectively. I do not like to hear that home help hours are being taken away from those who need them. While we most certainly have a difficulty with allocating additional hours as a result of the increase in demand, I do not agree with taking away hours and supports from people who clearly need them and who have been availing of them until now. Without going into the detail now, perhaps we could examine the particular cases raised by the Deputy.

There is no doubt that the resources available for home care are less than we need to meet demand and, for that reason, the programme for Government commits to increasing this year on year. The additional funding this year is €40 million. I hope to increase that further next year.

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Aire Stáit for what was quite a detailed response. I know she speaks from the heart when she speaks on the issue. She is correct in terms of what she noted in the last 30 seconds of her time on the taking away of hours from people. I spoke of neighbours down the road whose families I know so well and whose hours are being taken away. The multidisciplinary teams make decisions on the number of hours families are entitled to but after four, five or six months, when someone is very ill, there seems to be a higher authority that is deciding to take away three, four or five of the hours.

A few things need to be done. Home care should be a statutory entitlement and not a discretionary one, although I know this all comes down to funding. Second, phase 2 of the carers' strategy needs to be properly funded and resourced and I am sure the Minister of State agrees. The next problem is that HIQA is closing down facilities but not replacing them with other facilities. If a nursing home is closed down in an area and it is not replaced, this will cause problems. Families, as a result, are not able to get respite for their loved ones, which is causing another problem because it is causing an awful lot of stress for family carers. I also wish to mention long-term care for adults with disabilities who have been cared for at home for most of their lives by their loved ones. Parents move on but their one worry is who will look after their child who has a disability. No facilities are available for those families. We must address that issue. Finally, the home care package is offering only 30 minutes to families, which is not sufficient to carry out safe care. The Minister of State knows that it takes a lot longer to do things when dealing with older people and people with disabilities. The amount of time being offered is very limited. I ask the Minister of State to take those points on board.

I am most certainly taking everything on board. The Deputy will appreciate that, because it is not demand-led, home care is very much confined to the funding available, which is not enough. On the implementation of a statutory scheme, we need to review the management, operation and funding of home care, which is currently under way. During the course of the year, the Health Research Board was asked to conduct research into how home care is rolled out, the model used and its funding in comparable jurisdictions such as Scotland, Germany and Denmark. A pre-review was given to the Department in the past two weeks or so and we hope that it will be finalised by the end of the year. The review will influence where we go with this and we hope to get working on it early next year. The nursing home support scheme took up on seven years to put together. Obviously, we are not looking at such a timeframe, but a much shorter one. However, this is an extremely complex issue and one that we need to get right.

In the meantime, what is most important is that those who need supports and services receive them. The promise is to increase funding year on year. While being prudent with our resources, we need to ensure we are working with people and not taking away supports from those who already have them. We also need to look outside the Department of Health, something the Department is currently doing. For instance, with the national positive ageing strategy we are not just looking at help and home help hours but at supports such as transport supports that we can provide within the community. All these things help people stay within their homes for longer and give them a better quality of life. This way, they may not need additional home help or supports. The next stage of the national positive ageing strategy will begin early in the new year and will involve engagement from across the board, including community organisations, and not just the Departments. I hope to update the Dáil shortly on the matter.

Primary Care Centres Provision

I am raising the need for a primary health care centre in Finglas, especially in north Finglas, and the commitment that was given to locate one in the area. The population of Finglas and Dublin north west is increasing but the north Finglas area also has a higher percentage of older people than the national average, which is why a primary health care centre is essential.

The programme for Government committed to the delivery of enhanced primary health care centres in every community throughout the country and it was announced that funding was secured for 80 primary care centres. One of those centres was to be in north Finglas. This decision was made following surveys by the HSE on the population make-up, age profile, community needs and transport services in the area. The area was rightly identified as one of high priority that had a considerable need for the benefits brought by a primary care health centre. General practitioners had also committed to working with the HSE and other services.

As the Minister of State is aware, a number of sites were considered and one was chosen. Unfortunately, although Dublin City Council granted planning permission, this was overturned by An Bord Pleanála. It still baffles me how this happened. Be that as it may, that was two years ago, but currently there is the possibility of new sites in the north Finglas area. These would be more than suitable and would ideally suit a project as important as this one. Will the Minister of State provide a firm commitment that money and resources will be committed to this case and that efforts to secure the right site will not be hindered?

Pressure should be taken off local hospitals such as that in Blanchardstown and the Mater Hospital.

These hospitals are under constant pressure from dealing with minor injuries and providing social care services.

The primary health care centre in Ballymun has proved invaluable and has close links with local acute hospitals. This makes it easier for general practitioners to care for patients in the evenings and at weekends. Magnificent work is being done by staff, general practitioners and everyone else involved in the Ballymun primary care centre, which is widely praised in the community. We need to deliver services locally for this reason and it is time we got the Finglas project back on track.

North Finglas has been neglected for many years. The area has not had a general practitioner for as long as I can remember, which is a long time. This shows how serious the problem is in the area. Services are needed but the mistakes of the past must be avoided in terms of consultations with residents. The Minister must ensure residents are consulted and we do not get into the mess we ended up with in respect of the previous site.

I have been in contact with the Health Service Executive and I raised with it the potential to use a number of sites as a location for a primary care centre. I hope the Minister will put his shoulder to the wheel and apply more pressure to the HSE because it is essential that the Finglas area is provided with a primary care service. There is considerable anger in the community arising from the loss of the opportunity to have such a service two years ago. I hope this will not happen again. Let us discuss the issue with the HSE and get back on track.

I thank Deputy Ellis for raising this important matter and fully understand his frustration. The Minister has asked me to convey his apologies as he has been unavoidably detained elsewhere this evening.

The programme for a partnership Government commits to a decisive shift towards primary care so that we can provide better care close to home for communities nationwide. Primary care centres facilitate the shift from acute care to primary care because of the range of multidisciplinary services they can provide and the role they can play in keeping people who do not need to be in an acute setting out of hospital.

The development of primary care centres to accommodate primary care teams and, where possible, general practitioners is a key enabler for the delivery of primary care services. The nature and range of the services provided from a primary care centre may vary and such facilities can, and often do, fulfil other public functions too.

I advise the Deputy that 97 primary care centres are already operational, of which 54 have been opened since 2011. There are 40 locations at which primary care infrastructure is under construction or at an advanced planning stage under three different methods of delivery. Of these, 12 are by direct build, 14 are by public private partnership and a further 14 by operational Iease. A further 43 locations are at an early planning stage. The mechanism and timescale for delivery of primary care centres are dependent on a number of factors. Delivery of primary care infrastructure is a dynamic process, constantly evolving to take account of changing circumstances, including the feasibility of implementation.

Regardless of delivery mechanism, all potential primary care infrastructure is subject to suitable locations being offered, provided or available, subject to successful planning processes and GP commitment to sharing accommodation and delivering health care services with HSE staff. In addition, the operational lease mechanism is subject to market pressures such as the developer's access to adequate financing. Some of these factors are outside the control of the Health Service Executive.

In February 2015, An Bord Pleanála took the unexpected decision not to grant planning permission for the Finglas primary care centres on the Mellowes Road site following an appeal by local residents of permission which had previously been granted by Dublin City Council. I am advised that HSE estates, in conjunction with the local primary care service team, are reviewing several alternative sites for a new primary care centre in Finglas. The HSE has advised that it is at the initial stages of contact with agents representing the landowners of the sites to determine the viability of purchasing them and is conducting internal risk assessments with respect to local sensitivities with planning permission due to previous decisions.

Developments in the Finglas area include the HSE refurbishment of the Ballygall health centre on Seamus Ennis Road, which has resulted in the doubling of clinic rooms available in the centre. Improvement works to the Wellmount health centre on Wellmount Road has provided three additional rooms in the centre.

Finglas remains a priority for the Department and the HSE as one of the communities considered most in need of access to primary car services. Subject to successful negotiation, this project will be prioritised again in future capital plans. I assure the Deputy that the Department and Health Service Executive are fully committed to delivering a primary care service in the Finglas area.

I had hoped the Minister of State would give a much stronger commitment on the provision of a primary care centre in Finglas. While the work to bring two other health care centres in the area up to a better standard has been very welcome, the area is still missing large chunks of health services. The provision of a primary health care centre would solve many of the current problems by filling gaps in services, for example, by dealing with minor injuries, mental health issues and care for senior citizens.

It is essential that the mistakes made two years ago are not repeated. The HSE must engage in consultations and find out what will be the problems. I am glad HSE staff are examining this matter to ensure we do not run into similar problems. Having spoken to the HSE, I am aware that several sites are being considered. However, I would have liked the Minister of State to have made a clear and unequivocal statement that money is available to acquire a site and deliver a primary health care centre. People in the community fear that the outcome in respect of the previous proposal will mean Finglas will lose the opportunity to have a primary care centre. If a site becomes available, will funding be provided and the project advanced as a matter of urgency? It is crucial that this is done because the service is essential.

Having been in the Ballymun health centre, I know what primary care centres deliver. The way in which the Ballymun centre is managed and operated is fabulous. Similar services have been delivered elsewhere in the country. I want the Minister of State to provide a commitment on funding and construction for a primary care centre in Finglas.

It is unfortunate that the decision by An Bord Pleanála caused a difficulty in the Finglas area. The HSE recently submitted its capital plan for 2017 and this is being reviewed by the Department. The plan requires the approval of the Minister for Health and the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I wish I could give the Deputy an indication of what is in the capital plan but I have not seen it. I reiterate the commitment made by the Department and the HSE on delivering a primary care centre in Finglas.

EU Issues

It has been a very bad year for the political establishment in Europe. Former Prime Minister, David Cameron, is gone as a result of the impact of the result of the referendum on Brexit. President François Hollande will be gone as a result of his unpopularity as he is unable to stand even for the primary of the Parti Socialiste in France. Now, Prime Minister Renzi, the fresh-faced figure who was supposed to moderate austerity on behalf of all of us in Europe, is also gone, having been humiliated in the Italian referendum, in which his proposal was defeated by a vote of almost 60% against.

The Irish Government and every other European government would be loth to put any question to a referendum at this time for fear that people would take the opportunity to reject the political establishment. In advance of the referendum, various media outlets informed us of what was at stake. For example, The Independent in Britain featured the headline, "Italy goes to the polls in vote that could destabilise Europe". Another headline read, "The most dangerous moment for Europe since Brexit", featuring the caption, "Everything will change". Following the result, the Taoiseach informed the House that the European Union could deal with the outcome of the Italian referendum.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade said he does not see any comparison between this and Brexit and that this was not about the EU or the euro, which is a deliberate understatement of what this is about. The Government is attempting to hide and gloss over the fact that two major crises are exposed by the tremendous result in Italy yesterday. First, the political crisis of the establishment of Europe has not gone away but is deepening and Europe does not have respect or support among large sections of the population across Europe and, second, the banking crisis has not gone away. It was shoved slightly under the carpet in terms of some of the responses a number of years ago to the eurozone crisis and there was a failure to deal with the fundamental problems in the banking sector that are linked to problems in the real economy, as seen in Italy.

There has been an attempt, generally, to paint opposition to the EU austerity project as populism of the right, xenophobia, etc. That is also happening in terms of the Italian referendum and the attempts to point to this being related to the right populists of the Northern League, racists and so on. Any analysis of the vote shows that is not the case. Those who were opposed include right populists but the dominant forces were the left of the democratic party, left-wing political parties, left-wing trade unionists, such as the CGIL, and young people. Some 81% of those aged 18 years to 35 years, the low-paid and people from the poorer south rejected the policies pursued by former Prime Minister Renzi, which were anti-worker, anti-popular policies such as the labour reform law, the counter-reform in education and the rejection of the centralisation of power attempting to ride on a wave of anti-political populism.

There is a lesson here for the political establishment in the European Union. It was summed up in an article in The Financial Times by Wolfgang Münchau as the Marie Antoinette moment for Europe's elite. These people are unwilling to see the reality of what is happening and the extent of the disillusionment with Europe's political and economic system and respond with something that is akin to "let them eat cake", for which it will pay the price again and again. There is a significant left force building that can instead transform the Europe that we have and fight for a very different type of Europe, a socialist one that works in the interests of the millions.

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle fá choinne an tseans labhairt fá dtaobh den reifreann san Iodáil agus ráiteas gairid a dhéanamh air don Teach. I am pleased to have this opportunity to make a short statement to the House on the recent referendum in Italy. Italy is a leading member of the European Union. It is a founder member and the third largest economy in the eurozone. Italy and Ireland enjoy excellent relations, including a strong economic and trade relationship and this will continue. We have worked closely with outgoing Prime Minister Matteo Renzi over the past few years bilaterally and within the European Union and we wish him every success for the future.

The Italians went to the polls on Sunday, 4 December, to vote on proposals for constitutional reform, proposed by Mr. Renzi. By a majority of 59% to 41% the referendum was defeated. Mr. Renzi resigned but will remain on as Prime Minister at the request of President Mattarella until Italy's 2017 budget is approved by Parliament. What happens then is a matter for the President who will have to decide whether to put a caretaker government in place or to call a general election. The Italian political system will inevitably need some time to take stock and agree a way forward.

Under the current system, there are two Chambers of Parliament with directly elected lawmakers, the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate. Both Chambers have equal power and must agree on legislation before it is passed. Under the reforms proposed by Mr Renzi, the Senate would have lost most of its powers. The number of Senators would have been reduced from 315 to 100 and the remaining Senators would no longer have been elected directly. Under the proposals, most laws could have been passed by the Chamber of Deputies - the lower house - alone. However, the upper house would have had to be consulted on major issues such as other constitutional reforms and the ratification of EU treaties.

I note positively that following the referendum result the euro remains broadly stable and there has been a relatively muted market reaction to the result. It is, of course, important that we continue to monitor events closely in the aftermath of this result. As the Minister for Finance stated yesterday, there are no contagion effects from the Italian banking system to the Irish banking system. It is important to note that this referendum was about internal constitutional reform in Italy and not about support for the European Union. In this sense, it is entirely different from the UK referendum in June. The only political parties which took an explicitly anti-EU line during the campaign, and after the results, have no more than 15% of the vote. The 59% of "No" voters will certainly have included people who are pro-European but just did not support the proposed constitutional reforms, such as the former Prime Minister and EU Commissioner, Mario Monti.

As the Taoiseach said yesterday, it is important to note that the parties opposed to the referendum, such as the Northern League, the Five Star movement and Forza Italia, did not agree with each other on a range of other issues. We are well aware in this country that referendums can have surprising results, often not fully connected to the stated objective of the vote. There is no doubt that in many western democracies there is a lack of faith in political and other institutions. This is not by any means confined to the EU, but it very much recognises the need to respond and this is the subject of ongoing debate at the highest levels. However, I agree with the Taoiseach’s remarks yesterday expressing confidence that the EU is big enough and strong enough to deal with the fallout from the referendum result.

Italy is a country of immense creativity and resilience and I have every confidence that its political leaders will deal with the current situation.

I have zero confidence that the political establishment across Europe will learn any of the lessons from this. As stated by Wolfgang Münchau:

Some revolutions could have been avoided if the old guard had only refrained from provocation. There is no proof of a "let them eat cake" incident. But this is the kind of thing Marie Antoinette could have said. It rings true. The Bourbons were hard to beat as the quintessential out-of-touch establishment. They have competition now.

This is what we have seen and are going to see again and again. If people choose to interpret the referendum result in an extremely narrow way then they are missing the process that is happening. I would draw a distinction between the defeat of FPO candidate, Mr. Hofer, in Austria, which shows that the outrage does not have to lead to the rise of the radical right, and the defeat of this referendum in Italy. To say that there is no problem in this regard in terms of knock-on effects to the banking system is to ignore what is happening and the dangers arising therefrom. The term "La Sofferenza" which means "the suffering" is used in regard to non-performing loans. Some 18% of loans from Italian banks are non-performing loans, which is primarily linked to the bad performance of the Italian economy and the weakness of the small and medium enterprise sector in particular. The amount of non-performing loans increased from €42 billion to €170 billion from 2008 to 2014 and since then has risen to €360 billion. At the centre of this is the Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, which has to raise €5 billion this week in capitalisation. The result of this referendum has created a huge crisis. Not only is the Banco Monte dei Paschi di Siena under threat, so, too, are Unicredito and Banco Popolare. If they go under or if there is a bail-in - all these things are possible in Italy - it will have a massive impact on Ireland owing to the weakness of the Irish banking system, as evidenced from its performance in the latest Frankfurt stress tests. The banking crisis has not gone away and neither has the economic crisis. The political crisis has intensified and the Italian referendum result will re-expose all those things.

It is important that we avail of this House to have these conversations. In regard to referenda, we all have anecdotal examples of why people vote in particular ways, from which we can draw our own conclusions. Following the children's referendum when I asked a man why he had voted "No", he responded that he had done so because the "No" option was on the ballot paper, which shows his vote had nothing to do with the children's referendum.

In terms of the Italian referendum result, whether or not there will be a general election in Italy is a matter for the Italian President. We need to look at what is happening outside of the European Union. We live in a world in which 65 million people are displaced, of which 9 million are from Chad in sub-Saharan Africa.

Some 25% of all the refugees in Italy come from Eritrea. There is fear over what the future will hold. People think about the next generation and struggle with the question as to what the world will be like in 20 or 30 years. The population of Africa is to double in 20 years, from 1.2 billion to 2.5 billion. This will have a knock-on effect at European level.

A major conversation is needed but I guard against the politics of fear. There is a lot of fear, as expressed in many referendum campaigns over the years. We need a big conversation on demographic trends, population increases and projections for the future. Kenya, for example, will produce 1 million extra people for the workplace each year. This is but one country in the Continent of Africa. We have to be conscious of these demographic trends but we must also allow the space in which to have these conversations in this House because Ireland has an important role to play.

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