Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:1. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, with regard to the Stormont crisis. [1706/17]
Ceisteanna - Questions
Northern Ireland
Micheál Martin
Ceist:2. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the resignation announcement of the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mr. Martin McGuinness, on 9 January 2017; if he was spoken to regarding it beforehand; and if he has spoken to the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, regarding same. [1707/17]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:3. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if the resignation of the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mr. Martin McGuinness, will have an impact on the Brexit preparations and negotiations; and if the Government and his Department are making alternative plans for the upcoming Brexit negotiations as a result. [1708/17]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:4. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if the resignation of the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mr. Martin McGuinness. has damaged trust on a medium and long-term basis between Sinn Féin and the DUP; if this will limit prospects of future power sharing; if alternative processes are being assessed; and his views on whether the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent agreements remain intact. [1709/17]
Gerry Adams
Ceist:5. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagement with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, on 10 January 2017. [1713/17]
Joan Burton
Ceist:6. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach the contact he has had with Ms Arlene Foster, former First Minister of Northern Ireland, since the resignation of the Northern Ireland deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness. [1716/17]
Mick Barry
Ceist:7. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he has made contact recently with the First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mrs. Arlene Foster. [1744/17]
Mick Barry
Ceist:8. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he has had any contact with Mr. Martin McGuinness since his resignation as Northern Ireland deputy First Minister. [1745/17]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:9. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions with the former First Minister of Northern Ireland, Ms Arlene Foster, and former deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Mr. Martin McGuinness, since the latter's resignation announcement; and his views on whether the resolution of the difficulties in Stormont can be overcome and resolved by the political parties in Northern Ireland. [1903/17]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:10. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he or any of his officials has written or spoken to President Trump or any official in the American Administration regarding recent developments in Northern Ireland. [1905/17]
Brendan Howlin
Ceist:11. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, in relation to Northern Ireland. [1987/17]
Brendan Howlin
Ceist:12. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach the issues he has raised with the parties in Northern Ireland since the resignation of the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and his future plans. [1988/17]
Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:13. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation with Ms Arlene Foster about the crisis in Stormont. [1993/17]
Bríd Smith
Ceist:14. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions with Ms Arlene Foster on the current crisis in Stormont. [1995/17]
Brendan Howlin
Ceist:15. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meetings and discussions with representatives of Sinn Féin in advance of and following the resignation of the deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. [2780/17]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 15, inclusive, together.
On Tuesday, 10 January, following the resignation of the deputy First Minister, Mr. Martin McGuinness, I met Deputies Gerry Adams and Mary Lou McDonald of Sinn Féin to discuss the developments in Northern Ireland. I then spoke by telephone to both Mr. McGuinness and the DUP leader, Ms Arlene Foster, to explore the possibility of a resolution to the difficulties. I urged each of them and their parties to engage with each other to find a way forward and avoid a collapse of the Assembly and the Executive.
Later that day I spoke with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, to discuss the situation. We agreed that our two Governments would continue to work closely over the coming period and that we would keep in close contact. We also agreed that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. James Brokenshire, would work together to see if a way forward could be found before an election had to be triggered.
I spoke to the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, again on the evening of Monday, 16 January when it became clear there would be no nomination of a deputy First Minister and that, therefore, an election was inevitable. We repeated our desire to see the institutions established under the Good Friday Agreement operating effectively, in particular to have a fully functioning Executive in place as soon as possible following the election and the decision of the people.
As that election campaign gets under way, I call on all parties to enter into it in a calm and respectful manner. More than ever, this is a time for responsible and positive leadership. When these elections are over, whatever the results, the parties will be required to work together and with the two Governments to chart a way forward for Northern Ireland. The Government will continue to be very active in seeking an input into Northern Ireland's interests as we prepare for the Brexit negotiations.
I note that since our discussions, Mr. McGuinness has announced that he will not contest the next election due to his ill health. I issued a statement last week expressing my appreciation of his efforts to secure a lasting peace in Northern Ireland and wishing him and his family the very best as he deals with his illness. I am grateful for this opportunity in the House to repeat those messages.
I congratulate Ms Michelle O'Neill on her appointment as the new leader of Sinn Féin in the Northern Ireland Assembly and I look forward to working with her and her colleagues, and all of the parties in Northern Ireland, to ensure the stability of the Good Friday Agreement and its institutions into the future.
I have not had any discussions with President Trump regarding recent developments in Northern Ireland. I am also not aware of any contact between my officials and the American Administration on the matter.
We ran pretty badly over time on these questions yesterday. I ask Members to adhere to the clock. The first contributor is Deputy Micheál Martin.
I have five of the 15 questions. First, I congratulate Ms Michelle O'Neill on her appointment as Sinn Féin's Northern leader. It is fair to say that Sinn Féin is probably the last party in a democratic country which can appoint or anoint a leader through the laying on of hands rather than a vote. I think it is interesting. There was not a whole lot of commentary about it either, which is interesting as well in terms of the degree of analysis and questioning of these issues.
I note that an independent inquiry into the renewable heating scandal has now been established in recent days and that involved a complete U-turn on behalf of the Minister involved. The worst aspect about this is that it has been set up in such a way that the people of Northern Ireland will be given no answers before they vote and all they will hear are the political claims and counter-claims.
We should also note Deputy Adams's speech here last week when he stated that Sinn Féin had never done anything wrong in government, had never ignored smaller parties and is completely spotless in spite of the revelations about party funding, sectarian appointments, etc. During Question Time yesterday, the truly incredible claim was made that others are to blame, for example, for the failure to establish the civic forum even though Sinn Féin closed it down and opposed its return. Using the phrase of the moment, they are offering so-called alternative facts.
The DUP has behaved appallingly over recent years and it has to change fundamentally or there can be no progress. The question is how there can be any progress if all we hear from the next largest party is denial and partisan pottering.
I thank Deputy Martin.
I am just-----
The time is up.
What time have I?
The same time as everybody else, two minutes.
One gets more than one go.
Am I supposed to have two minutes?
In accordance with Standing Orders.
Only two minutes in a 15 minute slot, even though I have five questions.
Yes. The Deputy will get a chance to come back. The idea is that we will get several in.
One never gets back. Can I ask? I did not realise it was only two minutes.
Deputy Martin cannot ask anything because the two minutes are up. I call the Taoiseach.
That is ridiculous.
Deputy Martin-----
I made my own point. The Standing Order is ridiculous.
-----supported the adoption of the Standing Order.
I have made many recommendations for changes, but other changes that have been made are ridiculous. I will say no more.
I told Deputy Martin to watch Deputy Ó Cuív's action on that committee.
As Deputy Martin pointed out, there have been a number of comments about both the cash-for-ash issue, in respect of which a commission has been set up but answers will not be given before the election, and the requirement for parties to work together in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that the election does not descend into a barrage of vitriol from either side because at the end of the day the people will make their decision. Whatever the revamped Assembly will look like is a matter for them.
What interests me is to continue to be able to work with the parties in a new Assembly in the interests of the Good Friday Agreement and the position in so far as Northern Ireland is concerned. We have a number of sectoral meetings coming up and a second all-island civic forum on 17 February. The voices of Northern Ireland are important in that because when Article 50 is triggered on a different matter, these issues will become increasingly pertinent as we move along.
The Ceann Comhairle will have noted that there was an informative, inclusive and not rancorous session of Taoiseach's questions yesterday in the absence of the leader of Fianna Fáil. I raised the question yesterday with the Taoiseach of his upcoming meeting with the British Prime Minister and asked whether he would raise with her the outstanding issues arising from the Good Friday Agreement. The Taoiseach stated an acknowledgement of my point and he agreed that, "significant elements of the Good Friday Agreement - some historical and some cultural - have not been implemented. These are matters on which we need to follow through." I am looking to the Taoiseach to do that.
I extend Michelle O'Neill the very best of good luck. We will give her space to find her own voice and she will lead our party. She is not the first woman to lead Sinn Féin. Maire Drumm was a vice-president of our party and she was murdered by Unionist paramilitaries. Michelle is one of our many younger activists.
The protocol in our party for making appointments is the same as that of every other party. I note that the leader of Fianna Fáil has yet to appoint a deputy leader. Perhaps he will get around to it at some point. However, the big question facing us is Brexit and it will be the backdrop to the elections. Sinn Féin's resolve is to continue the work that Martin McGuinness pioneered, despite him being ridiculed and castigated by the leader of Fianna Fáil as a leader of one of the problem parties. Why did he resign? Unlike the leader of Fianna Fáil, he would not stand by when allegations of corruption had been made.
Obviously, I congratulated Michelle O'Neill. I look forward to the meeting with British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, next week. Given the imminence of both the legislation in the House of Commons and the moving of Article 50, we will concentrate on a number of issues that are relevant to Ireland, such as our relationship with Northern Ireland, our relationship with the United Kingdom and the issues that have been mentioned already, including the Border and the common travel area. We need to discuss a number of matters relating to those areas, so I might not get around to having detailed discussions about the cultural or legacy issues of the Good Friday Agreement that have not been dealt with. Clearly, we will refer to this in our capacity as the co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement and it is within that structure that we will have those discussions. However, there are also questions regarding what type of situation will apply following the moving of Article 50 and the eventual withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Single Market. Other elements will have to be taken into account in that regard in terms of trading relationships. We look forward to that engagement. We will see how it goes.
In some ways this is a resumption of the conversation or discussion that took place yesterday. One could not call it a debate. I am not a lawyer but I was surprised by an element in the judgment handed down by the British Supreme Court. It basically said that the devolved governments and assemblies do not have to be consulted in the matter of Brexit. That is particularly significant for the island of Ireland and, obviously, for the Northern Ireland Assembly, which will presumably reconvene and elect a Government after the election, although that is not yet certain. To refer to some of the discussion yesterday, as the representative and leader of the Irish Government and its co-guarantor role in the peace process, has the Taoiseach had an opportunity to be briefed on the legal decision made by the British Supreme Court, particularly as regards the implications of the latter part of the judgment for the Executive in Northern Ireland and the other devolved governments?
Second, what is the implication-----
The Deputy's time is up.
-----for the Taoiseach's approach now?
No, I have not had time to go through the detail of the judgment handed down yesterday by the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. Obviously, the referendum was an aggregated vote. Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain, but the vote is aggregated throughout the United Kingdom. It is like where Donegal decides to vote one way in a referendum and a majority of the remainder of the country votes another way. The referendum is throughout the Republic. However, the Prime Minister said in her speech that she wishes to have the devolved administrations represented in the negotiations when they commence. The Deputy's point is that it would be her wish that the Assembly should have had the right to declare its view-----
No, that is not my point. My point is that the judges gave a clear judgment regarding the position of the devolved governments. I did not make any judgment on what might happen.
I will not make a judgment on the findings of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. The court has given its judgment but the British Prime Minister said she wishes to ensure the devolved administrations will be represented and their voices heard at the negotiations.
We are going to run out of time on this. Is it agreed that we will take five minutes from the second group of questions for this? Agreed.
I also congratulate Michelle O'Neill on her election and I again wish Martin McGuinness a speedy recovery.
To clarify the Taoiseach's statement that he met representatives of Sinn Féin, did he meet any of the Assembly Members or was it only Deputies from this House he met?
They happen to be the leaders of Sinn Féin.
I am asking a question, if that is allowable.
He is being rancorous.
Did the Taoiseach raise with the British Prime Minister the scenario of what might happen in the event that a power-sharing government is not put in place after the elections and the specific role the Irish Government would have in that eventuality? Also, to amplify the question asked by Deputy Burton, how will the Northern Ireland Assembly to be represented in discussions on Brexit in the same way as the other devolved administrations? When the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales meet, who will represent Northern Ireland and its people in the discussion on Brexit?
Obviously, the election process is ongoing and people still represent their constituents. I cannot answer the question about who will represent the Assembly in the negotiations.
The Taoiseach did not raise the matter with the British Prime Minister.
What I discussed with the British Prime Minister was the fact that an election was inevitable and was going to take place. My hope was that a working Assembly would be put together as soon as possible afterward. I did not discuss the question of a stalemate with her. However, Deputy Howlin will recall that the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire, said on a number of occasions that they were not talking about a scenario of direct rule from Britain-----
He was talking about a second election.
Obviously, the people will make their decision on 2 March. Let them make it and see what the outcome is. My wish is that a working Assembly can be put together with which we will work. In the meantime, legislation is to be introduced in the House of Commons in respect of the exit position. The British Prime Minister has said she intends to move Article 50 before the end of March. If discussions or negotiations on the exit start immediately after that, hopefully whoever is elected will be in a position to represent the devolved Assembly at those negotiations.
When the Taoiseach met Arlene Foster, did he get any idea that she appreciates the gravity of the scandal surrounding cash for ash and the renewable heat initiative? Today, we see that the names of 1,000 beneficiaries of this botched scheme are to be published, although 300 are being held back by a court order. The Queen's counsel, QC, for the Department, who was pressing for the names to be released, described the scandal as a major depletion of the public purse for years to come. If fact, it is reckoned that £500 million of the public purse will be forfeited to those who benefit from this scandal. That sum is almost equivalent to the amount of money taken in cutbacks from the people in Northern Ireland in terms of job losses and services cut under the Fresh Start arrangement. Does the Taoiseach agree that, regardless of the outcome of the election, we cannot return to the old type of Stormont that was being used as a slush fund, particularly for the DUP but also for others? When these names are revealed in the coming days, they will include owners of poultry farms, mushroom farms and so forth.
Does the Taoiseach agree that the Stormont slush fund type of behaviour, which we are well used to in this part of the country, the corruption of golden circles and elites looking after themselves and their party connections, is not the type of Northern Ireland we need after the election? Whatever arrangement we come to, there must be a new type of politics in the North, as there must be in this part of the country. It will not be represented by the same old Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
I did not discuss the cash-for-ash scheme with the former First Minister, Ms Foster. There is a commission of investigation to find out the reason to which the Deputy referred. I hope the commission acts speedily and effectively in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland.
Did Sinn Féin inform the Government that it was going to collapse the Northern Ireland Assembly and insist on an election? As a co-guarantor of the agreement, the Government would, surely, have been entitled to advance consultation, particularly from a Nationalist party. Was the demand that the First Minister step down during an inquiry raised with the Taoiseach before it was announced? Does the Taoiseach think a good-faith effort to resolve the problem should have included asking the Irish Government to mediate?
In the aftermath of the election, people will hope things will be restored but it is interesting that the Taoiseach is often attacked for not engaging. He is repeatedly told the Irish Government is a co-guarantor of the agreement and there should be consultation all round. Yet, it seems to me that these institutions were collapsed in a very hurried and destructive way. It is damaging, given that Brexit is the gravest threat to the island of Ireland. I do not see how the collapsing of the institutions of Northern Ireland can advance a proper response to Brexit, despite all the talk and articulation about it. I would have expected that the Taoiseach would have been personally consulted in advance of the bringing down of the institutions.
We have a decision to make. The time has elapsed. What do Members want to do about this block of questions?
We will move on to the next one.
I would like to come back to this.
Can the Taoiseach briefly respond to the question and we will move on?
I dissent from that.
I have three questions, so I expect to be able to ask another question if we are going to continue.
I agree with Deputy Gerry Adams. I would like to come back to it.
Can the Taoiseach respond?
I was not consulted in advance about the decision.
Can we get clarity first on what we are going to do? Are we going to give this slot additional time or move on?
Give it time.
Additional time.
Additional time.
Additional time. Okay.
I was not consulted in advance about the collapse of the Northern Ireland Assembly. My reading of the reports and the indications, hearing this, that and the other led me to believe it might happen.
The Taoiseach will recall that I strolled across to him and told him of the seriousness of the situation in which £500 million had gone missing; a robust inquiry was needed and the First Minister was resisting it. He should also check with his Department, but I think it was Deputy Mary Lou McDonald who conveyed to the Taoiseach's Department the deputy First Minister's intention to put in a letter of resignation with a seven-day stay on it. I would like to hear some constructive remarks from the Fianna Fáil leader. Allegations of corruption and fraud were coming from within the DUP and the Minister responsible was refusing to countenance the sort of inquiry which would be proper in those circumstances. Should Martin McGuinness not have resigned? Should he have done what the leader of Fianna Fáil did for 14 years, just ignored these things and gone about his business?
That is not true. The Deputy is giving "alternative facts".
Gabh mo leithscéal. Should the undermining of the institutions and public confidence in them have been further eroded by our not taking a fundamental decision to give the people their say? That is what it is all about. It is not good enough for the Taoiseach to acknowledge that aspects of the Good Friday Agreement have not been implemented. It is happening on his watch and it also happened on the Fianna Fáil-led Government's watch. The parties in the North have to take responsibility for whatever they do or do not do but Governments have a responsibility and this Government in particular has a responsibility to hold the British Government to account.
Last week, the Taoiseach said the parliamentary liaison unit was available to all parties in the Dáil. In this context, could he undertake to have a briefing note prepared on the UK Supreme Court's judgment and to focus on its implications for the North, given the later part of the decision, which stated the devolved assemblies had no role? Could he identify who he thinks will represent Northern Ireland in the Brexit structures in the UK? If he says it will be the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire - and the other Secretaries of State for the other regions of the UK - it will be deeply unsatisfactory. Given that what happens vis-à-vis Brexit is significant for the whole island of Ireland, as the Taoiseach has acknowledged, he has a duty to give us more information. It is a moving picture and it is difficult for everybody involved. However, yesterday's judgment will heavily condition what the Prime Minister, Mrs. May, has the power to do regarding a promised withdrawal and implementation of section 50. We need more information.
Time is up.
I seek clarity from the Taoiseach on the sequence of events. There will be an assembly election in Northern Ireland. Hopefully, a new devolved administration will be agreed. However, based on the rhetoric we have heard, there is a distinct likelihood that it might not be achieved. It is important that the Government has contingency plans for this eventuality. If there is a hiatus, who will be the authentic voice of the people of Northern Ireland on the British side regarding their preparations for Brexit negotiations? If the First Ministers of Wales and Scotland are there to represent the very strong views of their communities, who does the Taoiseach envisage will be there? Surely he does not envisage it would be the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire. Has this been discussed with the British authorities and what is the Taoiseach's view on it?
I do not believe the Taoiseach feels any confidence that Arlene Foster takes seriously the understanding that Stormont collapsed because of serious corruption and scandals in the system. Maybe the Taoiseach does not take it that seriously, given that in this State we are well used to corruption and scandals in the system that have led to many tribunals that have taken years and cost millions of euro to complete. The Taoiseach would possibly be well suited to offer Arlene Foster an alternative job if things do not work out for her as a consequence of this election.
Our People Before Profit MLAs were the first to call for an election in Northern Ireland. I agree with Deputy Adams that it is an opportunity for people to give their verdict on the notion that one can run a state from Stormont on the basis of a slush fund for one's pals in the elites. This must end on the basis of producing an alternative type of politics. I do not get any sense from the Taoiseach that he believes Arlene Foster or the systems in the North or South are awake to that fact or that the only united Ireland we can see at the moment is on the basis of corruption, scandal and, possibly, low-tax havens for multinationals.
The Northern Ireland Assembly has collapsed, there will be an election and there is not a First Minister or deputy First Minister. The election takes place on 2 March and I hope the people make a decision that will give us a working assembly in the shortest possible time. I made no suggestion that the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire, would represent Northern Ireland in the negotiations.
Then who will?
I made the point that when he was speaking recently, he was not talking about devolved government or direct rule from London. It is not for me to say who will be elected to the Assembly nor is it for me to dictate-----
I disagree fundamentally with the Taoiseach on that one.
There is no need for Deputy Burton to put words in my mouth by saying that the Secretary of State, Mr. James Brokenshire, would represent the devolved Assembly of Northern Ireland at the negotiations on Brexit.
Who will do so?
The First Minister of Scotland and the First Minister of Wales will do so for those devolved administrations. It is not for me to dictate which elected members will represent Northern Ireland at these discussions.
The Taoiseach has to have an input, however.
The Taoiseach is co-guarantor of the Agreement.
Members should look at the sequence. The election will be on 2 March. Let us see if there is an assembly in place after that. Before the end of March, Article 50 will be triggered. In the meantime, legislation will go through the House of Commons to give effect to that intent. Negotiations on the exit strategy commence immediately the letter of intent to withdraw-----
There will be a meeting of the devolved assemblies during that period in London.
Obviously, that depends on whether the parties in the North can agree on members to be nominated in the interim. Deputy Howlin knows that it is not our call to suggest that it should be elected member X or elected member Y.
We could ask.
What we are doing is working with the sectoral relations in Northern Ireland. We have the all-island second plenary forum on Brexit on 17 February. We are engaged, full-time and on an ongoing basis, in respect of the post-Brexit situation, which is what interests me in terms of both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - as the island of Ireland - and future economic and trading links. There are some serious matters to be discussed.
Deputy Howlin asked me about a weekly update in respect of Brexit. It started last Friday but will not come out every week. Instead, it will be issued as needs be. Two have been issued since last Friday and 550 people have already signed up. The update gives not only the main headlines but also outlines the issues, the dates on which sectoral meetings will take place and other noteworthy matters. It will come out as necessary because if it were left until the Friday, much could have happened in the interim. On Deputy Howlin’s suggestion, this goes through and it will be updated automatically. People can sign on if they wish to have that update made available to them. Briefings from senior officials are available for the leaders of Opposition parties in respect of particular issues. These will also be contained in the update.
Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements
Micheál Martin
Ceist:16. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Prime Minister of Spain, Mr. Mariano Rajoy, held on 12 January 2017; the issues that were discussed regarding Brexit; the responses that he received; and if youth unemployment and immigration were discussed. [1904/17]
Gerry Adams
Ceist:17. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Prime Minister of Spain, Mr. Mariano Rajoy, on 12 January 2017. [1908/17]
Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:18. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Prime Minister of Spain, Mr. Mariano Rajoy. [1994/17]
Joan Burton
Ceist:19. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach the outcome of his discussions with the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Rajoy, during his recent visit to Spain. [2741/17]
Brendan Howlin
Ceist:20. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Spain and meeting with the Spanish Prime Minister. [2779/17]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 to 20, inclusive, together.
I met the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Mariano Rajoy, in Madrid on 12 January. Our meeting was extremely warm and constructive. The discussion focussed on EU-UK relations in light of Brexit and its implications for Ireland, Spain and the European Union more generally. My visit to Madrid was part of the Government’s programme of intensified strategic engagement with our European partners in advance of the commencement of negotiations on the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. I took the opportunity to explain our particular concerns to the Spanish Prime Minister, including regarding our economy and trade, Northern Ireland, North-South relations, the common travel area and the future of the EU itself. The Spanish Prime Minister fully acknowledged these concerns and I was pleased to have his assurance that we share the objective of constructive negotiations towards a close future relationship between the EU and the UK.
I also discussed other key issues on the European agenda with Spanish Prime Minister, who was joined by his foreign Minister, Alfonso Dastis, including migration, security, counter-terrorism, international trade and the European economy. We agreed that we should focus on delivering concrete initiatives in the Single Market and digital single market to boost jobs and growth. We also discussed the excellent Spanish-Irish bilateral relations, including trade and investment, tourism and police co-operation in the fight against organised crime. We reviewed the political and economic situations in our respective countries, noting, in particular, our economic growth figures and consequent falls in unemployment, which in both cases are moving in the right direction.
The Spanish Prime Minister also looked specifically at the question of Spanish receiving increased priority on the Irish educational curriculum.
We agreed to stay in close contact and to continue to work closely together over the coming period.
It is clear that Spain has a problem with the issue of special status post-Brexit. It was said in the House of Commons yesterday that Spain would block Scotland from getting a different deal. Is that the Taoiseach’s understanding from his meetings with the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Rajoy? Did the Spanish Prime Minister tell the Taoiseach that Spain will oppose special status for Northern Ireland? Did the Taoiseach raise the matter with him and what was his response? It is worth pointing out that there is an enormous difference between the situation in Northern Ireland and the situation with potential breakaway states in Spain. We have an agreed architecture for deciding these issues. The idea of Northern Ireland being different from other parts of the United Kingdom has been accepted. In contrast in Spain, not only is there no agreed way of handling potential change, it is actually illegal to hold a referendum on separation.
I remind the Taoiseach that the Spanish Administration is also a minority Government that requires co-operation from the Opposition. If the Taoiseach wants to influence Spanish policy, he may have to go beyond his European People's Party, EPP, colleague. Has he done this or made arrangements to follow up? Are there any other arrangements for follow-up visits? Will the Taoiseach be engaging with the smaller parties in the Spanish Government or the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, which is a non-populist, Euro-constructive party?
I brought Spanish on to the primary school curriculum in the late 1990s in the modern languages in the primary school initiative, which, unfortunately, the former Minister for Education and Skills, Ruairí Quinn, abolished two years ago. Up to 550 primary schools took up Spanish, Italian, French and German. It cost €2.5 million but, for some unknown reason, it was got rid of. Is it possible to restore the programme?
I support Deputy Micheál Martin in that. The availability of teachers who have a language is important. The Deputy introduced Spanish, French, Italian and German, important languages in the European sense, to primary schools. It is certainly one thing I can say he did do. I might differ with him on other matters.
Unspoken.
I did discuss with the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Rajoy, the particular circumstances and the special situation which applies in Northern Ireland. It is different in Spain's case with Gibraltar in that when Spain joined the European Union, Gibraltar was with Britain. Any issues that arise will be between Spain and Britain. In respect of Catalonia, as the Deputy pointed out, it is illegal to hold a referendum on separation under the Spanish system.
I discussed with the Spanish Prime Minister the set-up his Government has to deal with. It is similar to what we had here where a majority Government existed previously. However, Spain had two elections in ten months and much waiting for negotiations. I said to the Spanish Prime Minister that it requires a different kind of operation and to think differently to reach out to parties and individuals, as well as to do business as it might not have been done before. I also pointed out to him that, in respect of Deputy Micheál Martin’s party, we had been able to put together a confidence and supply agreement which does not apply in Spain. He was interested in that. Maybe they have been working on it since we left.
In respect of the special status, he answered a question publicly afterwards that he was very much aware of the situation in so far as Northern Ireland is concerned and would be continuing to support that from a European perspective through the peace process.
It is interesting to get a sense of the Taoiseach's conversation with the Spanish Prime Minister. Ireland has long historical relationships with Spain but also with the people of Catalonia and the Basque country. There is absolutely no reason the Spanish should not, if they were briefed properly by the Taoiseach, understand why the North is actually a disputed territory. The British have a claim to it but so do the people of the island of Ireland. That is why the mechanism is in place. The Good Friday Agreement is an accord which does not include agreement on a destination and this allows the people to decide whether the union with Britain continues or whether we go for Irish unity.
Coming back to what the Labour leaders were saying, it is important to recall that sovereignty is vested in parliament under the British system. If one wants to know what way the British Prime Minister is feeling about the devolved administrations, one only has to listen to the Scottish First Minister. She castigates the British Prime Minister for her attitude.
Ms May has no intention of allowing the administrations in the North or Scotland to have any real say on these matters. What should our Government's position be? It should be to uphold the vote of the people in the North. It is so simple. The members of the Government are the guys and girls that were preaching to us in the North about accepting democratic votes and the majority and all that. A very clear, cross-community majority said they want to remain within the European Union.
The Deputy's time is up.
Tá mé críochnaithe anois. We are also arguing for a special designated status for the North. The Taoiseach asked me yesterday what that meant. I do not have the time to deal with it. I sent him this for Christmas and I will send it again.
Let Deputy Adams be under no illusions. I gave Prime Minister Rajoy a very detailed briefing of the situation that applies in Ireland. He is very aware of that. I have known him over many years and met him at different meetings. He made the point that there is serious investment in Britain from Spain and that a very sizeable number of British people live in Spain. He was interested in the issues that may arise when Britain leaves the Single Market but also in dealing with the British people who live in Spain and the Spaniards who live in Britain in the same way we have here. These are issues that are of real concern to people in respect of the benefits and rights they have at their disposal now.
I said to Deputy Adams yesterday that we dropped Articles 2 and 3 by constitutional referendum. The Deputy calls it a disputed territory, I call it Northern Ireland and the Six Counties. That is an issue that is now protected under the international agreement of Good Friday and is not fulfilled or comhlíonta in its entirety. We will work very hard with both the incoming assembly and the British Government to advance more issues to be completed under that. I have read the Deputy's document so he does not need to send it to me again. I have it on my desk. It is not just about extra resources. The issue here is contained in the Good Friday Agreement. I am concerned now about the post-Brexit vision for Northern Ireland and the post-Brexit vision for the Republic and our island economy in general. They are issues I intend to discuss with Prime Minister May when I meet her next week.
I thank the Taoiseach. I am conscious that Mr. Rajoy is a colleague of the Taoiseach in the European People's Party. It seems to me, given the issues and views he has continually expressed on Catalonia, that Spain will be strategically one of the very strongest advocates for the hardest Brexit possible to serve as a warning to regions like Catalonia that if they leave the comfort of Spain as a single country in a federal system, it will be pretty cold outside. In that context, what is the Taoiseach's assessment of what the stance of Spain will be? All the indicators, from the information available in the media about the Spanish status and the recent statement about Catalonia, are that Spain will be lining up with quite a few others for a hard Brexit. As the Prime Minister is a colleague of the Taoiseach in the European People's Party, which is a very conservative organisation, perhaps the Taoiseach can give us some insight. At the end of the day, there will have to be some very difficult negotiations. We are just not getting any sense of how the Taoiseach is strategically preparing for those negotiations.
In respect of the Deputy's comment about Catalonia, as Deputy Martin pointed out, it is illegal to hold a referendum on separation in Spain. The Spanish courts would rule against it. The question of being outside in the cold does not arise in that context. It is an internal Spanish matter. The question of Gibraltar is different because it is a matter between Spain and Great Britain. Northern Ireland is in a different circumstance with particular special circumstances applying to it. I raised with him the question of the number of people from Britain who live in Spain and because of Spain's investment in the UK, the Prime Minister has made it perfectly clear he wants the closest possible relationship with the United Kingdom, which is what we have said, given the traditional links we have had here. I am not sure where Deputy Burton is coming from in respect of saying it is the hardest of hard Brexits because Mr. Rajoy has already said he wants the closest relationship with the UK for very particular reasons.
Deputy Micheál Martin is right about Northern Ireland having a very specific legal architecture that is not analogous to the Spanish situation at all. I do not agree it is disputed territory. There is a solemn settlement voted by the people of this island and the United Kingdom that the future status of Northern Ireland is a matter to be determined by the people in Northern Ireland. That is the settled agreement. It is not disputed. Until such time as the majority in Northern Ireland want to alter it, it is settled.
Did the Taoiseach put to Prime Minister Rajoy the prospect of Northern Ireland maintaining itself within the Single Market or within the customs union? Did he give the Taoiseach any views on the Spanish reaction to that possibility? Did the Taoiseach discuss the status of Gibraltar? I met senior members of the Government of Gibraltar at the British Labour Party conference who also have great anxieties about themselves. They overwhelmingly voted, by 96% or 97%, to stay within the European Union. Was their status discussed between the Taoiseach and the Spanish Prime Minister?
I discussed the question of Gibraltar with the Spanish Prime Minister. As I pointed out, it is in a different situation. That is a bilateral matter for discussion between Spain and the United Kingdom post Brexit. It is entirely different from the Good Friday Agreement which, I agree with the Deputy, is not about disputed territory but has been a solemn, internationally legally binding agreement voted on by the people, North and South, and contains in it the opportunity for change at some time in the future if the people, North and South, wish to do that. The situation of the island of Ireland, and the Northern Ireland end of that within the island of Ireland, is unique. Prime Minister Rajoy understands that and is very supportive of the continued support from the European Union because of the peace process and what that means. I explained to him the peace walls and the fragility of many of the issues that arise in Northern Ireland and he, as one Prime Minister, understands that, is very supportive of it and will continue to be so in the future.
That concludes questions to the Taoiseach.