Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 16 Feb 2017

Vol. 939 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Industrial Disputes

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

As we know, Tesco workers began industrial action on Tuesday, which was St. Valentine's Day. It was not for the fun of it; rather, it was to ensure that their employer would honour the workers' terms and conditions.

In this day and age it is an absolute disgrace that they would have to do so and that proper workers' rights are not enshrined in legislation to protect them and their terms and conditions.

On Tuesday morning I attended in solidarity with the workers in Ballyfermot and will do so as the strike continues. Tesco's action in its assault on the terms and conditions of these workers and its union-busting attitude is reminiscent of the actions of William Martin Murphy and his ilk and is a continuation of a move by many employers in a race to the bottom in terms of wages and terms and conditions which we have seen for decades and which the State has not prevented.

It is the State's job to protect workers' rights. I call on the State to step in and prevent companies, especially those as profitable as Tesco, which is one of the most profitable retailers in Ireland, from slashing wages. For it to attack and assault workers' rights is disgraceful, especially when we consider that many of those who work for Tesco end up dependent on the State for a top up. This is a move that other retailers and companies are doing more frequently to ensure that workers are dependent on the State rather than the company. These people have worked and provided the companies' profits and the only answer the companies have, in particular Tesco, is to attack the terms and conditions of the workers.

Deputy Clare Daly

Today I had a call from a Tesco worker who is not a pre-1996 worker but who stands four square behind her colleagues. She knows that she will be next if she does not stand behind them. She recounted what has happened to her since expressing her support. Her management has called her in on several occasions and told her not to support her fellow colleagues - her neighbours and her friends. She explained that these are the very people who taught her everything she knows in the job. They gave her the benefit of their life experience and have always been hugely supportive. She is witnessing them being bullied and pushed around to the point that stress and intimidation has already forced a number of them out.

If the Minister does not call out this company and confirm to it that it will not be allowed to get away with changing contracts of employment without agreement, in effect the Government is undermining decent jobs and conditions. Everyone's job conditions are at stake. Those wages and conditions, which were fought for, allowed Tesco to become one of the most successful multinationals operating on this island. I have no doubt that Tesco management forced this strike. It wants the unions silenced so that it can pursue a race to the bottom. It is a fact that 900 full-time jobs were done away with last year in this hugely profitable company and not one of them was replaced with a full-time contract.

As Deputy Ó Snodaigh stated, 10% of Tesco workers are receiving social welfare payments. Will we allow it to get away with this so that, perhaps, half the wages are funded out of it? The right to a decent job with decent pay and conditions must be our starting point. If we do not defend it here in Tesco, it will spread. That is unacceptable in modern Ireland.

Deputy Carol Nolan

I met the Tesco workers in Tullamore and stood in solidarity with them on the picket line. It is appalling that long-term Tesco workers are being told to accept unacceptable and imposed changes to their contracts or to get out the door. The new contracts would result in some workers experiencing reduced incomes of up to 15% along with increased use of undecided hours. Already 10% of Tesco staff are so low paid that the State has to top up their incomes with supplementary welfare. This is despite the fact the company makes profits of millions and much more than any other retailer in Ireland.

The wider issue is that there is real fear among union members that this is an attempt by Tesco to undermine trade union membership, as we have seen with other retailers, and it needs to be stopped. It has been reported that Tesco has written to staff to encourage them to leave their union as part of Project Black. This is seen by many within the trade union movement as a clear attempt by Tesco to undermine further the terms and conditions of staff in order to increase its already large profits. It is a disgrace. This Government needs to stand with the workers and it needs to act to ensure that trade union membership is protected at all times. It needs to stand up to corporations that are exploiting workers in the State.

Deputy Joan Collins

The situation in Tesco should be alarming to anyone concerned with decent work in this country, particularly Government. Over recent months, 900 full-time permanent jobs in a hugely profitable company have been lost. Not one full-time job has replaced them. Instead Tesco is now going after the remaining 250 workers on these decent contracts and trying to force them out the door. The company states that it has offered workers voluntary redundancy, but what kind of choice is it when they are told their terms and conditions will be torn up if they stay on. In reality, this is part of a long-term plan in Tesco to break their union.

Earlier this month in the Dáil, I spoke about Project Black. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation heard me speak about it. It is a plan drawn up by a union-busting legal firm, Eversheds, which was also employed by Ryanair when it set up its company. We now know that there is also Project Purple. The company initially stated that there was no such thing as Project Black. Then it admitted there was but, in admitting it, it stated there also was Project Purple. The staff are wondering what the hell is Project Purple, which appears to be coming down the line.

The plan is to convert an entire workforce of 11,000 jobs to part-time, low-paid and precarious work. This matches what we are seeing across the economy, which is the growth of low pay Ireland. Jobs in companies such as Tesco that once offered workers enough security to plan their lives and enough pay to support a family are being replaced with ones that will never be able to meet the cost of living. The most recent OECD statistics show that Ireland is second in the developed world for low-paid jobs - it is one in four jobs.

Is the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation prepared to stand over this kind of economy? If not, why is she not intervening and telling Tesco not to bully its workers in the way it has in recent weeks? Will she state today that a company that made €250 million in profit here last year should not unilaterally change the terms and conditions of the workers who made that possible?

Deputy Mick Barry

I welcome the Tesco workers and their supporters who are in the Visitors Gallery. We have heard from other Deputies about a company that makes €250 million profit in this country each year attempting to cut workers' pay by 20% by tearing up agreements. However, this is my question for the Minister. This major multinational retail outlet is organising a wholesale union-busting campaign right under the Minister's nose. Look at what it is doing: it is banning union business from the staff canteens, banning union information from the staff notice boards, banning union officials from going on the premises and encouraging staff to leave the union and now we know it is ending the check-off of union subscriptions from workers' wages. This is a classic American-style union-busting campaign. Deputy Joan Collins told the Minister its name: Project Black.

The Minister is responsible for jobs and employment and this is taking place under her nose. When she stands to speak, will she please inform the House and the Tesco workers and their supporters in the Visitors Gallery what she will do to stop and outlaw this union-busting campaign taking place under her very nose?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Eugene Murphy)

I thank the Members for their co-operation. It is not easy to accommodate five Members on one Topical Issue.

Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor)

I thank Deputies Joan Collins, Clare Daly, Carol Nolan, Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Mick Barry for raising this matter and welcome the opportunity to respond.

I have no direct role in the resolution of this dispute or similar disputes. I understand the dispute at Tesco relates to proposed changes to pre-1996 employee contracts for approximately 250 of the 14,500 staff employed at Tesco. In a circumstance such as this, I would always advise and encourage parties to use the offices of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and Labour Court, as the parties have done on this occasion.

An extensive process of engagement and negotiation culminated in August 2016 in the Workplace Relations Commission making proposals for resolution of the issues at the request of the parties. These proposals were accepted by Tesco but rejected by the trade union side. The matter was subsequently referred to the Labour Court. In November 2016, the Labour Court recommended that the parties should, over a period of eight weeks, engage in a locally based process in an attempt to allow settlement at local store level. The court recommended that the process should be guided generally by the content of the WRC proposals. If this did not succeed, the Labour Court recommended that the WRC proposals should then be accepted as the means of national resolution of the issues. Tesco accepted the Labour Court recommendation, while Mandate rejected it and did not engage in the local process. After balloting its members, Mandate served strike notice and industrial action commenced on Tuesday last at eight stores. Industrial action will commence at eight more stores tomorrow and staff at a further 23 stores will be balloted from Monday next. This is disappointing given the efforts of the Workplace Relations Commission and Labour Court.

I welcome the announcement at lunchtime today that both parties have agreed to talks. I hope these talks will result in a resolution acceptable to all sides.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I congratulate the workers who have stood against the actions of Tesco and members of the public who have shown solidarity with them. The Minister stated she did not have a role in the matter. On the contrary, as a legislator she can change the law to protect workers. I urge her and other Ministers to support the Industrial Relations (Right to Access) (Amendment) Bill when it comes before the House on Second Stage next week. I request also that the Minister ask her colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, to issue a statement clarifying that family income supplement payments to striking workers will not be affected while they are in dispute as Tesco management has been threatening striking staff with such a fall-out from their action.

Deputy Clare Daly

While I welcome the talks that have been announced, talks only work if the people talking are willing to listen. Against that backdrop, it is critical that the Government intervenes to put manners on an employer that has been out of control in this dispute. While I accept that the issues were before the industrial relations machinery of the State, the Labour Court recommendation was rejected not by Mandate but by trade union members and workers participating in a democratic process. It is the right of workers under legislation and in collective agreements to defend their contracts of employment. Will the Minister direct Tesco that it is unlawful to change a person's contract of employment without his or her agreement given that the company has not secured such agreement?

Deputy Carol Nolan

I thank the Minister for her response, which was very disappointing. Sinn Féin has consistently stood with workers. We have introduced a number of Bills, for example, the Banded Hours Contract Bill, to address key issues of concerns but we have been thwarted at every turn by the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael parties. I commend Deputy David Cullinane who will introduce legislation on this issue next week. The Industrial Relations (Right to Access) (Amendment) Bill proposes to place the right of access to trade union membership on a statutory footing. It will also protect the right of workers to engage with a trade union in line with a measure in operation in New Zealand. I encourage all Deputies to support the Bill when Second Stage is taken next week. We must put a stop, once and for all, to the race to the bottom and protect ordinary workers who work hard and are the backbone of the economy.

Deputy Joan Collins

In an email I received one of the workers in Tesco, Mark, states his mortgage, car loan and health insurance are all at risk. He and his colleagues, he continues, want to do a day's work and get on with their lives without a threat hanging over them. If the company gets workers on pre-1996 contracts, he warns, others must watch their backs because they will be next.

I reiterate the point made by Deputy Clare Daly. Under current legislation, a worker's contract cannot be changed without agreement. Tesco workers rejected the Labour Court recommendation because it did not clarify many of their concerns and questions. The Minister must tell Tesco to stop using the tactics it has employed. It is breaking the law and should be told it cannot behave in this manner in Ireland. It should also be told to withdraw the threats it has made and negotiate again with workers.

Deputy Mick Barry

Five minutes ago, I asked the Minister what steps she was prepared to take given that a major international retail company is organising a trade union busting campaign under her nose. In response, she read a script which did not answer my question. I will repeat my question and in doing so I ask the Minister to answer it when she replies again. What measures is she prepared to take and what legislation does she intend to bring before the House to prevent union-busting of this type?

Many Tesco workers are in receipt of family income supplement as a result of the low wages paid by the company. As the jostling in the Fine Gael Party continues to see who will be its next leader and the next Taoiseach, the name of the Minister for Social Protection, who has responsibility for family income supplement, is in lights at the moment. Is the Minister prepared to state that she will call clearly and cleanly on the Minister for Social Protection to ensure that the family income supplement payment of not one worker will be affected while he or she is on strike? The company would like it to be affected to break and undermine the strike.

Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor

We are very fortunate in Ireland in terms of the industrial relations system we have developed. We have industrial relations machinery available to both parties, namely, the Labour Court and Workplace Relations Commission. The fundamental approach of successive Governments to industrial relations has been one of voluntarism. There has been a consensus among the social partners that the terms and conditions of employment of workers are best determined through the process of voluntary bargaining between employers and workers and employers' associations and trade unions or staff associations. This approach has served us well over the years.

In general, our laws do not try to impose on parties to a trade dispute. Rather, they are designed to help support parties in resolving their differences. The State has, by and large, confined its role to underpinning voluntarism through the provision of a framework and institutions through which good industrial relations can prosper. Our industrial relations institutions have been heavily involved in this dispute and the Workplace Relations Commission and Labour Court have put forward independent proposals and recommendations and will keep a close watch. I hope the Deputies will join me in encouraging both sides to make every effort to reach a resolution.

It is reported on the RTE website that Mandate and Tesco have agreed to talks in a bid to resolve this row. My understanding is that no date has yet been agreed.

Deputy Joan Collins

There has been an offer of talks but no one has agreed to take part because the contracts are still under threat.

Education Welfare Service Provision

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I thank the Minister, Deputy Zappone, for re-arranging her schedule to facilitate this discussion. The Minister will be aware that a decision has been taken to withdraw counselling grants to primary schools in particular. I received a letter from a principal of one of the schools in my constituency, some of the content of which I would like to bring to the attention of the Minister. The opening paragraph states that he has received correspondence from Tusla informing him that the counselling grants scheme is to be closed. It continues as follows:

I wish to object most strenuously to this development and to request that this decision be revoked. The Counselling grant enabled us [the school] to provide support to some of the most vulnerable children in our school, helping them through the considerable distress they are enduring and to deal with trauma in their lives. This support is now to be withdrawn without consideration for those benefiting from Counselling or without the offer of any alternative. This is regressive and will directly impact on those who could most benefit from support.

In the interests of vulnerable children, I urge that this decision be rescinded and that the Counselling Grant be immediately restored.

Neither I nor anybody else could make a stronger case than the person who is dealing with this issue at the coalface, who knows the state of minds of these children, their backgrounds and all of the social deprivation issues that they endure.

I am aware that Tusla has indicated that money will be redirected through some other programme but that is not enough to convince the person who is dealing with this issue at the coalface. If I have learned anything from my time as a public representative it is that it is important to speak to the people on the ground, those who are affected by decisions that are taken here and in Departments and State agencies. Often what looks good on paper or sounds good in theory in practice does not work. I put it to the Minister that the statement of the school principal is a clear indication that the theory behind the reallocation of this funding is not in the best interests of the children and, therefore, it will not have a positive outcome for the children we all seek to assist and protect to the greatest extent possible.

Will the Minister consider reinstating the grant, recognising the role that principals play? The service provided is a tried and trusted practice at this stage. In the past special needs assistant allocations were based on quotas and school numbers and so on. It became blatantly obvious at a later stage that the input of the school principal was most important in that regard and we moved towards that. It seems to me that the decision is being taken to withdraw this grant, remove the principal from the mix and move to a paper-based assessment or at a remove from the coalface. I appeal to the Minister to reconsider this decision and to give whatever direction is required to Tusla to reinstate these grants and to put the school principal back in the centre in terms of the allocation of the assistance to these vulnerable children.

Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (Deputy Katherine Zappone)

I thank the Deputy for his question and for the opportunity to clarify my position. I am concerned about the impact of the decision to close the school counselling grants scheme. Like the Deputy, I have met school principals in my constituency on this matter. They have communicated very clearly the importance of these grants for the welfare of the children in their schools, using language and expression similar to that used by the principal from whom the Deputy received correspondence. I am meeting Tusla early next week to examine this matter further.

First, I would like to outline the rationale I have received from Tusla for closing the scheme. I have been advised by Tusla education and welfare service, EWS, that the grant scheme which was originally established in 1994 by the then Department of Social Welfare was to provide counselling support for children affected by bereavement or loss. This scheme was closed in 2011 while under the remit of the then Family Support Agency due to budget cuts and no new applicants have been accepted since this time. Only those grantees in 2011 receiving funding continued to do so. The scheme came under the remit of Tusla in 2014. This counselling grants scheme is for a total of €245,900 annually and currently there are only 64 grantees nationwide benefiting from it. With more than 4,000 schools in Ireland, 64 grantees means less than 2% of schools were in receipt of support from this scheme while it remained closed to all other schools. The necessity for bereavement and loss counselling still exists in schools throughout the country. Tusla was of the view that it was unfair and unethical to continue providing support to a small number of areas while excluding all other schools from the scheme. Thus, the decision was made to cease the scheme in its current format. Following on from this decision Tusla EWS informed grantees in January 2016, and as part of the 2016-2017 grant application process reconfirmed, that the scheme would not operate for 2017-2018. The EWS wrote again to confirm this in January 2017. In this context it is important to note that each school completion programme can utilise up to €5,000 of their funding for counselling.

To ensure continued counselling support to children, Tusla provides child counselling through the agency’s family support services funding. In 2016, funding solely for child counselling was increased under this scheme to €680,000. In particular, child counselling funding to approximately 70 family resource centres throughout Ireland was increased to €242,000. The agency is the main funder of Barnardos children’s bereavement service which works to support children and families coping with death. This includes a bereavement telephone helpline and a highly skilled therapeutic service that supports children, particularly in relation to complicated grief and traumatic loss. The funding was increased by €20,000 in 2016, with total funding to the service now €154,600.

The agency is also committed to the funding of Rainbows Ireland which provides group based support to children dealing with loss following parental separation-divorce or a death. The Rainbows programme is delivered in more than 250 schools and community-based centres throughout the country. Funding in 2016 was increased by €15,000 to €250,000 annually. I know that Tusla is keen to ensure counselling services are available to all children who need them. I intend to seek reassurances from it that this decision does not have an unforeseen and unintended impact.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I welcome that the Minister is aware of the problem and that she recognises the potential impact on the children affected. I also welcome her indication that she intends to discuss the matter with Tusla. However, what I would like, although I accept it may not be possible, is an assurance from the Minister that she will do all in her power to have the grant reinstated. I understand the necessity for fairness and equity but as in the case of any budget item, schools that have become dependent on that grant are not in a position to draw resources from other areas. I am sure there are schools that have made their own provisions through fund-raising and other activities or are able to raise funds to provide third party support. However, generally speaking the schools that will be affected by this decision are schools serving disadvantaged areas where their capacity to fund-raise is limited.

Although the programme started in 1994, 23 years ago, the nature and complexity of the challenges facing children from disturbed backgrounds have changed significantly. Bereavement and loss may have been the action items that needed addressing at that time, but now there is a proliferation of drugs and various complexities associated with the make-up of families. Very significant issues evolve and change. The need for counselling has increased rather than decreased. I refer to the multifaceted and complex circumstances in which children find themselves. For that reason, I do not buy Tusla's notion that in order to be equitable and fair, it is better to take from those who have rather than giving to all. While I understand this somewhat perverse or reverse logic, I do not accept it, nor should the Minister or House. I appeal to the Minister to reiterate in her discussions with Tusla the importance of supporting those who have become dependent on the funding and who expected it.

Deputy Katherine Zappone

I would be very much helped if the Deputy forwarded me the email he received from the principal in question. The Deputy spoke eloquently about recognising the role of principals. It is very important that that perspective be part of the mix.

I would like to assure the Deputy that the grant will be reinstated given my background, approach and conversations in my constituency. The Deputy might give me a little time in that regard, although I do not believe I can say anything until I have actually spoken to Tusla and explored this matter with it. In light of the Deputy's question, for which I am grateful, I have reflected on what the grant is for. One can hear in the response that it was originally and largely for supporting children in counselling on foot of bereavement, trauma and loss. I will be asking in my conversation with Tusla whether this history is fully understood. Perhaps some of the confusion or questions principals are asking may be coming from the fact that it is perceived that the grant has become part of a school completion programme. Why not because it is in the education welfare services of Tusla, implying it is especially for children living in contexts of disadvantage and all that can mean. A principal to whom I spoke referred to children experiencing hunger, trauma, addiction, self-harm and the potential to take their life by suicide, or, effectively the stress of living below the poverty line. The question arises as to whether there are other counselling services in the area that they can access. There are not in my constituency.

Should the grants be available to all schools? On this question, I take the Deputy's point. It depends on what they are for. I know that schools in my constituency actually spend more than the counselling moneys they receive on counselling services. That provides some evidence and a perspective that I will bring to my conversations with Tusla.

DEIS Status

Deputy Jackie Cahill

Earlier this week, the schools that acquired DEIS status were announced. Tipperary town, which has five primary schools, has suffered from much social deprivation over a number of years. There is serious unemployment there and much social housing and social issues. The criteria that must be met for a school to obtain DEIS status would seem to be tailor-made for Tipperary town. We had a public meeting in November which the five Deputies and other local representatives attended. The five schools came together and put the information forward on the problems in their town. They gave the numbers of underprivileged children attending, including foreign nationals and Travellers. All the criteria seemed to fit perfectly for acquiring DEIS status. We were very surprised and disappointed when the announcement was made earlier in the week that none of the five schools in the town got DEIS status. The town has suffered many blows and it would be a major advancement for the educational infrastructure if DEIS status were given to the schools.

Deputy Seamus Healy

On Monday last, there was shock and disbelief in the five primary school communities in Tipperary town and throughout the town itself when it was revealed the five schools had failed to be designated under the DEIS programme. They are St. Joseph's girls national school, St. Michael's girls national school, St. Michael's junior boys school, Gaelscoil Thiobraid Árann and the Monastery boys school. These were left out of the 2005 designation as well.

Tipperary town is a designated RAPID town and has high levels of unemployment. The aggregate statistics for the schools are as follows: households headed by lone parents, 24.2%; households in which English is not the first language, 20%; low income households, 44.2%; students with special needs, 17.4%; students receiving learning support, 35%. These statistics appear to be tailor-made for meriting DEIS status for the schools. I ask the Minister to review the decision and designate the schools.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The schools have been mentioned. The schools were left out in 2005, which is many years ago. The schools are at a complete loss to understand why. By any measure, the schools are in areas of high deprivation and have a strong case for inclusion. The Minister will be aware that the south-east region is the second most disadvantaged in Ireland, and Tipperary is the third most disadvantaged local authority area within the region. The schools I am referring to presented persuasive and compelling reasons for inclusion in the DEIS plan, which is to begin in September 2017. What they were up against, however, was a deeply flawed model in terms of criteria used to assess schools. The Department itself has acknowledged that the methodology used in the assessments is deeply inadequate and in need of improvement. It is disgraceful that these schools were excluded from receiving vital allocations because they failed to meet poorly formulated departmental criteria.

I am challenging the Minister. He snubbed Carrick-on-Suir quite recently on the opening day - a massive, great day for the town. It is another snub to Tipperary town and, indeed, Holy Trinity national school, Fethard. I ask the Minister to get things in order in his Department, have a proper assessment system and have the proper criteria adhered to.

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Richard Bruton)

I thank the Deputies for raising this important issue. I do not for one moment accept Deputy Mattie McGrath's suggestion that I snubbed Tipperary or any part of it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

What else did the Minister do?

Deputy Richard Bruton

The truth is that this system was set up based on an objective assessment. It has taken into consideration issues such as the ones the Deputies raised, including social class, dependency ratios, educational levels of parents, lone parenthood, overcrowding, occupation, unemployment. On this first round, I have been able to include just 2% of schools in addition in the DEIS scheme. That is a small number, amounting to 79 schools, but they are the schools of the highest concentration identified by the method. It is a fair and objective method and the Department defends it fully and has implemented it.

The programme has introduced improvements. Tipperary, as Deputies know, has five of the 79 additional schools. Two are in urban band 1, one is in urban band 2 moving to urban band 1, and three are in the rural band. Out of the fewer than 80 schools, which is about two per constituency, Tipperary has five. Therefore, this is not an anti-Tipperary model by any means.

I fully recognise that we need to do more work. We are going to refine the methodology and examine the way in which schools use resources and how we can best deploy resources. I hope that in the future it will be possible to give consideration to extending DEIS supports to a further group of schools because I recognise that beyond these schools which are shown to have the highest concentration of disadvantage, there are others that have significant concentration.

The scheme's purpose is to move to a situation where we use our available resources to best support children who come to school with particular disadvantages and ensure they fulfil their potential.

Deputy Seamus Healy raised the important issues of special educational needs and learning support. Separate from DEIS, I recently announced a new model of resource teacher allocation. It will involve 900 additional resource teachers next year who will be allocated in a way that better meets the needs of children with learning support and special educational needs and foreign nationals. The resources will go to where there is the greatest need.

As regards foreign nationals and Travellers, the matter raised by Deputy Jackie Cahill, there are individual schemes that support children with special needs because of the nationalities of their parents. If a school believes it has a particular difficulty, it can apply in respect of the learning needs of children for whom English or Irish is not the spoken language in the home. This is the first step in seeking to put more resources into disadvantaged areas, just as we are putting more resources into special education, and tailoring that approach to the best advantage of children in order that they can progress successfully and fulfil their potential in the education system. It is one of the core goals of our education strategy to improve the way in which we support children with a disadvantage.

Although the schools the Deputies have mentioned are not included, five schools in County Tipperary are receiving this advantage and I hope to be able to extend that number. I guarantee that I will set this as a priority and ensure our resources are deployed to best effect in all of the schools we support.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

We acknowledge that five schools in County Tipperary have been accepted into the scheme, but we are discussing Tipperary town which, by any objective assessment, is an underprivileged area. Its community feels let down. Will the Minister commit to reviewing the five primary schools in the town? In any examination of the criteria they would qualify for DEIS status. Their principals are perplexed to understand how they failed. They took a co-ordinated approach because the problems in Tipperary town crossed the five schools. It is 2005 since our schools were last accepted into the DEIS programme. That is an unacceptable length of time for these schools to wait to acquire DEIS status. The town has suffered many blows during the years owing to unemployment and its people feel as if they are being let down and left behind.

Deputy Seamus Healy

Obviously, we welcome the inclusion of schools in County Tipperary in the scheme, but we are discussing Tipperary town. It is impossible for people on the ground who know it and know its school system - Oireachtas Members, teachers and parents - to believe these schools have not gained DEIS status. Will the Minister agree to review the decision? Crucially, will he agree to meet a deputation of the schools' principals and Oireachtas Members to review the situation and ensure Tipperary town's schools are included in the DEIS programme? The statistics I have supplied are real. There is real deprivation and unemployment in Tipperary town. The students in the schools require, and are entitled to have, DEIS status.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing us to raise this Topical Issue. Thanks to the Department's decision, children in Tipperary town must continue to suffer unacceptable levels of educational deprivation. They are to be denied the extra assistance that comes with DEIS status, for example, school breakfast and literacy programmes. They live in areas with the highest level of concentrated disadvantage and will never receive further help because, in the words of a departmental official, a significant social and demographic change would have to be observed before a reassessment would be considered. However, that is already the situation, as the statistics show. In plain language, this means that the Department knows that the children are poor and deprived, but they will have to wait until they are even deeper in poverty and deprivation before it can help. That is ridiculous. It is 12 years since the last review, which is unacceptable. Will the Minister commit to directing his departmental staff to change the criteria? If we could not meet them, something is wrong with them.

The Minister most certainly snubbed the people of Carrick-on-Suir. Tipperary was good to him. He came down and got a bean chéile, with which we are delighted. The people and children of Carrick-on-Suir deserve better than what they have received. This is at the other end of south Tipperary. What the Department has done is shameful.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought for a while that the Deputy was from Lisdoonvarna.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I have been there once or twice.

Deputy Richard Bruton

The assessment method has nothing to do with me or my like or dislike of a particular part of the country. It is an objective method that has been used-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is not and could not be.

Deputy Richard Bruton

-----in the same way for every school throughout the country. We have on this occasion been able to increase the number of schools in the disadvantaged programme by 2%. The criteria I cited are the ones that are used and that the Deputies cited. They relate to unemployment rates, social class, occupation, overcrowding of children, lone parents, the education levels of parents, dependency ratios and population decline. These are objective measures which are applied to every school in the same way. Tipperary's need has been recognised. Two additional schools in Carrick-on-Suir have received special DEIS status. We envisage that some schools that have not been included this time have a case to make, but we have only been able to include those in the areas with the highest levels of concentrated disadvantage. However, I hope to be in a position to look afresh at the matter in the future.

To respond to Deputy Jacie Cahill, any school can seek a review of how the process has been applied in its case, but the same criteria apply.

Deputy Seamus Healy referred to high levels of learning support and special educational needs. The service is allocated not through the DEIS programme but through resource teacher allocations. I have reformed that system in order that, from next September, it will be done in a fairer way, with resource following the need in a school. The 900 additional teachers will go to the schools with the greatest levels of need. This is a beneficial change. We will see progressive improvement in the way resources follow the children with the greatest learning support and special educational needs.

This is the start, not the end, of a journey.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is a long way to Tipperary.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I can understand why people will say another school should have been included, but this has been done in a fair and equitable manner and is in no way politically influenced.

Deputy Seamus Healy

Will the Minister meet the deputation?