I must now deal with a postponed division relating to amendment No. 2 to the motion regarding restructuring of the Money Advice & Budgeting Service and Citizens Information Service. On Tuesday, 28 March 2017, on the question that the amendment to the motion be agreed to, a division was claimed, and in accordance with Standing Order 70(2), that division must be taken now.
Money Advice and Budgeting Service and Citizens Information Centres: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]
The following motion was moved by Deputy Willie O'Dea on Tuesday, 28 March 2017:
That Dáil Éireann:
accepts:
- the vitally important work undertaken by the Citizens Information services, CIS, and the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, offices across the country in providing information, advice and also helping citizens to manage and overcome debt; and
- the significant role these services have had in recent years assisting families with distressed mortgages;
recognises:
- that MABS and CIS offices are an intrinsic part of, and deeply embedded in, local communities which depend on them greatly;
a that voluntarism is a central component of the MABS and CIS services and ethos;
- the genuine and growing concern about the manner in which the restructuring of MABS and CIS is being undertaken and the potential negative implications of the proposed regional model;
- that the restructuring process is disenfranchising volunteers which is counterproductive;
- the growing concern about the proposed changes to local boards and the implications for members and services; and
- that those directly affected by this restructuring process believe that it is taking place without any meaningful dialogue; and
calls on the Minister for Social Protection to:
- immediately utilise the power he has under the Citizens Information Act 2007 to issue a directive to halt this proposed regionalisation;
- conduct a cost-benefit analysis of the restructuring process and the proposed regional model;
- heed the concerns of those who have voiced their strong reservations about the restructuring process and to ensure that all stakeholders involved are consulted and allowed to engage in meaningful constructive dialogue to secure an outcome that is agreeable to all; and
- ensure that any restructuring process does not result in the downgrading of the quality, effectiveness and accessibility of services to citizens.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 2:
To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:
wholeheartedly commends the important work undertaken by the Citizens Information Board, CIB, together with its network of delivery partner services, including the Citizens Information service, CIS, and the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, in fulfilling its statutory remit to provide information, advice, iincluding money advice and budgeting advice, and advocacy services on a wide range of public and social services for citizens across the country;
notes:
- the decision taken by the statutory board of the CIB, on 15 February 2017, to restructure the governance arrangements from ninety three individual local service company boards to a new 16 company board model, to bring the CIS and MABS better into line with modern public service governance guidelines and requirements;
and
- the CIB’s key assurance that there will be no job losses, no closure of services, no change to service delivery locations and no change to the terms and conditions of serving staff during the lifetime of the restructuring;
recognises that the decision taken by the statutory board of the CIB is for improved governance reasons due to the significant State funding involved and will in no way reduce access to, or the range of, services available to citizens;
acknowledges that the restructured model is necessary to assist the CIB in its compliance with the Code of Practice for the Governance of State Bodies and the implementation of recommendations from the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General;
agrees that the decision taken by the statutory board of the CIB is in keeping with successive strategic plans of the board, including the current strategic plan for the period 2015 to 2018, which in accordance with governing legislative provisions was submitted to, and approved by, the Minister for Social Protection, and subsequently noted by Government and laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas in January 2016;
further recognises the work carried out by the employed staff of MABS and the employees and many volunteers who work in the CIS countrywide;
acknowledges the input of the volunteer boards of the CIS and MABS companies to date and notes that those with the necessary skills and expertise can remain involved by putting themselves forward for consideration as members of the new regional boards;
welcomes the undertaking of the CIB to conduct a full cost-benefit analysis of the 16 regional company model;
further acknowledges the CIB’s commitment to ongoing consultation through the establishment of a restructuring implementation group comprising members of the board of the CIB and representatives of the local network of the CIS, MABS and CIB staff members;
further welcomes the intention of the CIB to engage in constructive, structured dialogue with the relevant representative bodies in the context of moving to the new restructured governance arrangements; and
further notes that the Attorney General has advised that the Minister for Social Protection does not have power to instruct the CIB in its day to day operations and, specifically, does not have the power to order a reversal of a decision such as the restructuring of its governance arrangements.
- (Minister for Social Protection)
Amendment put:
The Dáil divided: Tá, 51; Níl, 90; Staon, 0.
Tá
- Bailey, Maria.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Breen, Pat.
- Brophy, Colm.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Peter.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Canney, Seán.
- Cannon, Ciarán.
- Carey, Joe.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Creed, Michael.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deering, Pat.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Halligan, John.
- Harris, Simon.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McEntee, Helen.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Madigan, Josepha.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Moran, Kevin Boxer.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Naughton, Hildegarde.
- Neville, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael.
- O'Connell, Kate.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Ring, Michael.
- Rock, Noel.
- Stanton, David.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Zappone, Katherine.
Níl
- Aylward, Bobby.
- Barry, Mick.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Brady, John.
- Brassil, John.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Browne, James.
- Buckley, Pat.
- Butler, Mary.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Cahill, Jackie.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Casey, Pat.
- Cassells, Shane.
- Chambers, Jack.
- Chambers, Lisa.
- Collins, Joan.
- Collins, Michael.
- Connolly, Catherine.
- Coppinger, Ruth.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Cullinane, David.
- Curran, John.
- Daly, Clare.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Fitzmaurice, Michael.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Funchion, Kathleen.
- Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Harty, Michael.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Danny.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Gino.
- Lahart, John.
- Lawless, James.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- Martin, Catherine.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mitchell, Denise.
- Moynihan, Aindrias.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Munster, Imelda.
- Murphy O'Mahony, Margaret.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Murphy, Eugene.
- Nolan, Carol.
- Ó Broin, Eoin.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Callaghan, Jim.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Keeffe, Kevin.
- O'Loughlin, Fiona.
- O'Reilly, Louise.
- O'Rourke, Frank.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- O'Sullivan, Maureen.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Quinlivan, Maurice.
- Rabbitte, Anne.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Sherlock, Sean.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith, Bríd.
- Smyth, Niamh.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Staon
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Regina Doherty and Tony McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies Michael Moynihan and Willie O'Dea.
Amendment declared lost.
We may now proceed to consider amendment No. 1. Can I ask the Sinn Féin Deputies how stands the amendment?
We are pressing it. I move amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after “to halt this proposed regionalisation” and substitute the following:
“— recognise that given the voluntary nature of the service in its current form a cost benefit analysis is unnecessary; and
— ensure that the existing model, where independent management of the service is drawn from both the local community and voluntary sector, is maintained.”
Amendment put:
The Dáil divided: Tá, 44; Níl, 96; Staon, 0.
Tá
- Barry, Mick.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Brady, John.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Buckley, Pat.
- Collins, Joan.
- Connolly, Catherine.
- Coppinger, Ruth.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Cullinane, David.
- Daly, Clare.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Fitzmaurice, Michael.
- Funchion, Kathleen.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Gino.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- Martin, Catherine.
- Mitchell, Denise.
- Munster, Imelda.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Nolan, Carol.
- Ó Broin, Eoin.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Reilly, Louise.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- O'Sullivan, Maureen.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Quinlivan, Maurice.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Sherlock, Sean.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Bríd.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Wallace, Mick.
Níl
- Aylward, Bobby.
- Bailey, Maria.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Brassil, John.
- Breen, Pat.
- Brophy, Colm.
- Browne, James.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Peter.
- Butler, Mary.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Cahill, Jackie.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Canney, Seán.
- Cannon, Ciarán.
- Carey, Joe.
- Casey, Pat.
- Cassells, Shane.
- Chambers, Jack.
- Chambers, Lisa.
- Collins, Michael.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Creed, Michael.
- Curran, John.
- Daly, Jim,
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, John.
- Deering, Pat.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Harris, Simon.
- Harty, Michael.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Danny.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lahart, John.
- Lawless, James.
- Lowry, Michael.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McEntee, Helen.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Madigan, Josepha.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Moran, Kevin Boxer.
- Moynihan, Aindrias.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy O'Mahony, Margaret.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Murphy, Eugene.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Naughton, Hildegarde.
- Neville, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Callaghan, Jim.
- O'Connell, Kate.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Keeffe, Kevin.
- O'Loughlin, Fiona.
- O'Rourke, Frank.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Rabbitte, Anne.
- Ring, Michael.
- Rock, Noel.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smyth, Niamh.
- Stanton, David.
- Troy, Robert.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Zappone, Katherine.
Staon
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and John Brady; Níl, Deputies Michael Moynihan and Willie O'Dea.
Amendment declared lost.
Motion put and agreed to.