Vol. 946 No. 2
1. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the breakdown in talks in Northern Ireland; if he has spoken to the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, regarding same; if this deadlock will be overcome; his views on the fact that emergency powers are now allowing senior civil servants take control over Stormont's finances; and the way he envisages that concerns for Northern Ireland following the instigation of Article 50 will be addressed. [16401/17]
2. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to party leaders in Northern Ireland in relation to the restoration of political institutions there since the deadline for the nomination of First and deputy First Ministers on 27 March 2017. [16410/17]
3. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach if the absence of the Northern Ireland Assembly will have an impact on the Brexit negotiations. [16724/17]
4. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to Northern Ireland leaders since the Northern Ireland Assembly elections and since the deadline was extended. [17827/17]
5. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagements with political leaders in Northern Ireland and the UK on plans to restore the political institutions following the Northern Ireland Assembly elections. [17851/17]
6. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken with Prime Minister May regarding the ongoing talks on the Northern Ireland Assembly and the way in which legacy issues will be addressed. [18285/17]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.
I discussed the political situation in Northern Ireland with Prime Minister May when I spoke to her by phone on 29 March. The main political parties in Northern Ireland have been invited to participate in political talks, which started on Monday, 3 April in Belfast. The Irish and British Governments are agreed that this phase of talks will be best supported by an intensive process to drive progress here.
The talks have two objectives, first, to allow the political parties to reach an agreement on the formation of a new Executive, and second, to address the implementation of outstanding issues from previous agreements. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, is representing the Government during this phase of discussions and is keeping me continually informed.
It is critically important to see devolved government restored and working effectively in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland, in particular in the context of Brexit. As a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement, the Government is determined to uphold its principles and protect its institutions. We will continue to work to this end with the British Government and with all of the parties in the discussions that are under way in Belfast. I and the Government will continue to advocate very strongly for Northern Ireland's interests to be protected in the Brexit negotiations. There is, however, no substitute for an Executive speaking with one voice on these critical issues. All concerned must, therefore, redouble efforts to achieve the re-establishment of power-sharing government in Northern Ireland.
As the Taoiseach knows, it is my view that the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Executive should never have collapsed in the first instance. I believe that it was an engineered decision for electoral purposes. The result is that Northern Ireland now lacks a coherent voice, especially on Brexit, which is the single, greatest, once in a generation challenge to the island of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement and the institutions of the Agreement, particularly the North-South Ministerial Council, could have been very useful mechanisms in facilitating a proper coherent response by Northern Ireland and Ireland to the challenges of Brexit.
I ask that the Taoiseach reports on the progress of the talks.
Yesterday, I believe, Sinn Féin started demanding an election if there is no agreement by Friday. For its part, the DUP appears still to be refusing to give an unambiguous commitment to implementing past agreements. The other parties have been pushed to the margins by the two largest parties. This is a trend we have seen happening time and time again.
It is clear to me that the policy of disengagement from the process that was developed over the last six years by the two Governments has to end as it simply does not work. It has failed miserably. Time and again, the DUP and Sinn Féin have proven that they cannot just be left to get on with it. Each party is blaming the other for not moving forward. While Sinn Féin will argue that it has done nothing wrong in government, the smaller parties find that very difficult to comprehend, given that they were excluded from receiving even basic information when they were in the Executive. That was one of the reasons they left. The current negotiating dynamic does not appear to be working. I ask the Taoiseach to indicate whether he has spoken to Prime Minister May about this and if he and the Prime Minister have agreed to hold any further meetings specifically to discuss the impasse in these talks.
The last time I spoke to the Prime Minister, I expressed the hope that the politicians elected to the assembly would accept their responsibility and get on with putting together an Executive. I think everybody can agree that this is absolutely essential if the issues that affect the people of Northern Ireland, which were voiced on two occasions at the all-island forum and on many more besides, are to be addressed effectively. We all know that in the previous Executive, the then First Minister and deputy First Minister, now deceased, were able to write a letter to the British Prime Minister setting out what were their common objectives. That is needed now more than ever. I agree with the Deputy that if the North-South Ministerial Council were now in operation, it could be convened on a regular basis to discuss the issues in the different sectors that are important here.
I also spoke to the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire, in Derry at the funeral of the late Martin McGuinness. Although I do not speak for the Prime Minister in this, from my conversations with her and for my part, if it comes to it that we have to engage at prime ministerial and Taoiseach level, then we will do that. The important issue here is that, at the level that it is now being discussed, the politicians have to be able to put together an Executive. The DUP and Sinn Féin, as the two largest parties, hold a really responsible position and have a decision to make here. I saw the comment from the leader of the Sinn Féin group saying that if an Executive is not put together by the end of the week, it wants another election. I am not sure what that is about, whether it is putting it up to the Secretary of State or a clear position of wanting to have another election. The fact of the matter is that people have been elected from a range of parties to the Assembly. The two largest parties have a duty and a responsibility to sit down in the interests of the people they represent and form an Executive. Northern Ireland should have a clear voice in order that we can get on with the business of discussing the issues of Brexit. If that is not going to happen - I will be speaking again to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade this evening - I am quite happy to engage as necessary with the British Prime Minister, as Deputy Martin is aware.
For the information of the House, the Taoiseach and the leader of Fianna Fáil, a fresh election is envisaged because that is what the legislation provides for. I am sure both gentlemen are aware of that.
It also provides for an Executive to be set up.
It is extremely alarming that the Taoiseach continues to entirely misunderstand his role in these matters. The Taoiseach needs to lift the phone to Theresa May. It is quite disgraceful that he has not done so at this stage as we are five and a half weeks at this. It is the political equivalent of a slow bicycle race.
We are speaking into a vacuum, it seems, as regards the DUP. We have come not with a Sinn Féin shopping list but with an audit of outstanding issues that have to be implemented. People in the North expect a very basic thing. They expect that when two Governments and political parties sign up to sworn agreements on issues that might be contentious, those matters will be implemented. That is what good government means. Yes, we want to get the Executive back up and running but it has to be credible. Credible means delivering.
The Taoiseach shakes his head benignly at me and I very much welcome that.
I am nodding my head.
The Governments have also defaulted on their obligations. It is a matter of all parties implementing - that is what we want. Why is that such a contentious thing to ask for? How could the Taoiseach imagine that we could re-establish an Executive or institutions on any other basis?
Deputy Micheál Martin believes that the institutions should not have been collapsed. Of course, Deputy Micheál Martin does not represent anybody in the North of Ireland. He struggles with the notion that institutions come down because corruption has been discovered.
Sinn Féin's leader in the North promoted the ash scheme.
Is this not very interesting? Fianna Fáil struggles with the idea of a political system reacting to allegations of corruption, coming from within the DUP in respect of advisers and so on. I must stress they are only allegations but they are very serious. Here is the newsflash for the leader of Fianna Fáil: people in the North do not just want credible institutions, they want clean ones.
Your time is up, Deputy.
Sinn Féin's leader in the North promoted it.
When they are found not to be clean, the people respond in a very negative way. That is how Nationalists, republicans and others in the North of Ireland actually roll, Deputy Martin.
You have exceeded your time, Deputy.
No one is more corrupt than your gang.
The party of corruption is speaking now.
No one is more corrupt than Deputy Doherty's gang --- Sinn Féin and its colleagues.
How many went before the tribunal? How many brown envelopes were handed over?
No one could be more corrupt in terms of the destruction of Ireland politically than Sinn Féin-IRA.
Deputy Martin's party wrote the guide book on corruption.
It is a very touchy subject for Sinn Féin.
The Deputies can have their one-to-one outside. In here they cannot do that. I call Deputy Haughey, without interruption.
I think we all need to calm down a bit. Brexit will have major implications for the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and the all-island economy. It has major consequences also for the peace process and, in particular, the Good Friday Agreement. These implications will have to be teased out as the negotiations continue. It is vital that the institutions in Northern Ireland be established as soon as possible.
There is a Conservative Government in the UK. Conservative Governments traditionally do not have much time for devolved administrations. It is therefore really important that the Irish Government be proactive on this issue and actively engage with the British Prime Minister, the British Government and the Secretary of State to ensure that agreement is reached on time. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade in particular have to be proactive on this, given the circumstances. The whole peace process is fragile and could unravel very easily.
As regards the all-island economy and the promotion of tourism and the economic development on this island generally, the free travel scheme was announced on this day 50 years ago. It was a simple measure but it had a profound impact. As I am on my feet, I ask the Taoiseach to give an assurance that the Government has no plans to restrict its use or to scrap the scheme altogether. All of us will agree that it was a revolutionary measure with a profound impact, particularly for the elderly and the disabled.
We will take Deputy Howlin's one and then the Taoiseach will respond.
While I do not want to get involved in everybody else's scrap-----
The Taoiseach is taking note.
-----one should be allowed to ask one's parliamentary questions if other people eat up the time. I am really worried on a number of fronts. I am worried that Northern Ireland is not properly represented in respect of the ongoing Brexit talks now they have formally started. I do not believe the people of Northern Ireland will be adequately represented by the Theresa May Government, no more than will be the people of, or the implications for, the whole island of Ireland. I am also worried - I know we will hear protests about this - that there is at least a strong prevailing view within both the largest parties in Northern Ireland that another election might actually be in their interests. I would be interested in the Taoiseach's view on this. In the case of Sinn Féin, it may well become the largest party.
For the DUP, bluntly, there could hardly be a worse election than the last one and those from that party might be able to cannibalise UUP votes. It is concerning if this is driving the lack of progress that seems to have materialised in the past five and a half weeks.
What additional initiative will the Taoiseach take to ensure that no stone is left unturned to try to end the current impasse before we are plunged into another set of elections? I do not believe that in the aftermath of another divisive political campaign, anything will be resolved other than a deeper entrenchment of fixed views. Is there anything further the Taoiseach can do? Perhaps Deputy McDonald is right. Could the Taoiseach sit down with the British Prime Minister to and make the case that this is sufficiently important to warrant a joint initiative?
The Taoiseach may respond to all of the questions.
I recognise what Deputy Haughey has been talking about. When free travel was introduced by his late father 50 years ago, the move was revolutionary. It was always seen as something that was very good for a Minister to be able to do. Millions of people have availed of it once they passed the particular age. I assure Deputy Haughey that there is no intention whatsoever to scrap the free travel scheme. There is an important social dimension relating to connection for people throughout the country, as well as for those who travel from abroad but who are Irish and who come back here. They have that facility as well. There is no intention along the lines suggested.
Deputy Haughey asked a question on Brexit and Deputy Howlin made another comment. I am unsure as to whether those involved are playing games now. It is a serious matter. However, let us follow Deputy McDonald's logic. I recall Sinn Féin comments after the election to the effect that the Northern Ireland Executive was more important than the personality of the First Minister to be appointed. If that is the case and if those in the Sinn Féin party are serious about putting together an Executive, then they should not be contemplating the end of the line in the legislation or another election. Perhaps that is what they are contemplating. However, if those in the party are serious, then the new leader should be sitting down with a view to-----
She is meeting all the parties.
I hear different things.
She is meeting extensively-----
Please, the Taoiseach without interruption.
Why then are we having ultimatums?
We cannot have this.
Why then are we having ultimatums about another election?
Can we move on to the next question?
If it is possible to do it, then let it happen. The traditional thing was always that the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach of the day would arrive in Belfast at the last minute. There would always be a demand for more money and yet more money. That has always been the case over the past 30 years. If the DUP and Sinn Féin are serious, they can sort this out quickly if they want. If they do not want to do so, then other options have to be considered.
We are all serious about delivering on these matters
The Taoiseach to speak, please. The Taoiseach did not interrupt Deputy McDonald.
As far as I am concerned, we have co-guarantorship responsibility for the Good Friday Agreement.
Sinn Féin appointed a spin doctor one month before the collapse-----
Please, the Taoiseach to speak without interruption from any Deputy.
We will continue to see that this happens.
That is disgraceful. Martin McGuinness tried to keep the Northern Executive going. Deputy Micheál Martin's little snide comments are of no help.
The Taoiseach, without interruption. Deputy Pearse Doherty should be aware that there are rules to which we must adhere.
It was not possible to get agreement on how to deal with the legacy issues of Northern Ireland. These are very serious and sensitive on both sides. It was not possible to deal with the question of the Irish language, which I favour strongly.
We had agreement on that.
I thank the Taoiseach. He has exceeded his time.
The Taoiseach has not challenged them on that matter.
The essential point is-----
Deputy McDonald, if we are going to have a debate-----
The essential point is that two major parties have the biggest responsibility to sit down.
We have agreed to the mechanism for that.
The Taoiseach, without interruption.
I hear a great deal of talk about the willingness of Sinn Féin to form an Executive. I accept that. Is Deputy McDonald telling me that the DUP does not want to form an Executive? That is the corollary of what she is saying.
Hold on.
Can I be of help to the Chair?
No. The questions are to the Taoiseach. Time is running down. Do Deputies want another round of one-minute questions? Next is Deputy Micheál Martin.
My question was bundled together for lack of time. Yet, other people can seem to banter about whatever they like.
I have no interest in bantering. These are serious issues and the clock is ticking.
I will give the Taoiseach extra time to answer Deputy Howlin. A supplementary answer for Deputy Howlin.
I can answer the question for Deputy Howlin. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, has been up there all day. He has been up there for several weeks now, off and on, working with the parties and representing the Government. He is there again today. I will be talking to him later. Deputy Howlin asked me what else I can do. The Deputy should note that if the two parties do not want to form an Executive, they will not form one.
Is that the Taoiseach's view?
Is Deputy Howlin suggesting that we go down the old road of incentives and offer a sweet?
No, that is a cop-out.
The people have voted. They voted for the parties. Their representatives are in Stormont. There is a requirement to put an Executive together so that we can have leadership from Northern Ireland on the issues that are going to impact on thousands of people arising from Brexit. We know what those issues are because they have been articulated by Northern Ireland businesses, trade unions, farmers, students and people in general from both sides of the community. They want leadership in the Northern Ireland Assembly that they have elected, but it is not materialising.
The Taoiseach should get his skates on.
Am I supposed to go up there with the UK Prime Minister, Ms May, take the hands of the leaders and tell them to sit down and put this together? Surely, the Sinn Féin programme and the DUP programme should be meshed in some way? There may be areas where they cannot agree but they should have a common set of objectives.
That is nonsense.
Deputy Howlin asked what else we can do. We will continue to be very active in this regard. As I said earlier to Deputy Micheál Martin, if it means that-----
I have not-----
I am doing the best I can. The Taoiseach will get to the Deputy.
I have not got to put a second question yet.
If I have to go up there with the UK Prime Minister, then I will do that.
Deputy Micheál Martin has one minute for a supplementary question. One minute will be one minute only.
I want to make a point through the Chair. The Northern Ireland Executive and the Assembly were deliberately scuttled on an issue that everyone knew about six months in advance, namely, the renewable heat scandal. Sinn Féin has no monopoly in the context of objecting to corruption, no more than anyone else. Tonight's "Panorama" programme might be revealing in that regard.
I want to make the point that what we got in the last all-island Brexit forum was a clear message from the civil dialogue people from Northern Ireland. It was simply this: there is an absence of a coherent voice on Brexit at the table in Northern Ireland because of the collapse of the Northern Executive and the Assembly. The overriding imperative has to be to restore the Northern Executive and Assembly rather than seeking election after election, as if the whole purpose of the Good Friday Agreement was electoral advantage and appealing to the base all the time. Let us remember that a month before the collapse of the Northern Executive, both parties appointed a joint spin doctor on the grounds that they had a good story to tell. One month later, it collapsed. People can make up their own minds about that. In any event, the Brexit issue demands that the parties come together, put aside their squabbles and organise the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly. They both now have a mandate to do that. The others do too of course.
I strongly object to anyone describing issues around dealing with the legacy of the past, matters relating to a bill of rights, marriage equality or dealing with Irish language rights as petty squabbles. They are not one bit petty. They go to the heart of people's basic civic rights in Northern society.
As it happens, I was in Belfast last night. There is a clear voice from civic society looking for leadership. That same voice is telling us clearly that we should not back down on these basics. We are not doing another ten years of going around in circles and having the same endless debate and argument. We have agreed on these matters. We want the agreement relating to them implemented. In that regard, the Taoiseach should be on the blower to Theresa May. The Taoiseach should be asserting himself as co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement and the subsequent agreements. That is the expectation of the Taoiseach in his role.
Reference was made to the issue of a single voice on Brexit. The DUP took a pro-Brexit line. Arguably, that was the prerogative of the party. There is no single view between Sinn Féin and the DUP. That is the reality. Furthermore, Theresa May has made clear that she is not interested in affording to the North of Ireland or Scotland or anywhere else a significant role at the table in respect of Brexit. Consequently, people in the North rely on the Taoiseach to do his job and to represent them.
Deputy McDonald was right when she said that there is no single view in respect of whether the United Kingdom should have stayed in the European Union. However, there is surely a commonality of interest in respect of what is good for the people of Northern Ireland and the people of the island of Ireland as a whole such that we can build a consensus view.
Unfortunately, there is nobody at the table with the authority to speak for Northern Ireland as long as there is no Executive. That is the issue.
I know that Sinn Féin representatives have a view that none of us can speak with authority on Northern Ireland, only themselves. I believe that is a partitionist view and a wrong view. Sinn Féin should not shout down people and ask who people represent and all the rest of it. All of us with an interest in this island and the peoples of this island have something to say. We should be respected and at least listened to when we say that.
On the basis of fact, yes.
The very real question the Taoiseach asks is whether I or the House want Theresa May to arrive up and hold hands as Taoiseach and Prime Minister have done on every occasion and ride into it. I know from talking to people, including the American facilitators of peace over the time, that the question is about when they will actually stand on their own two feet. Will it be in a decade, two decades or three decades? When will the devolved administration be its own creature? That is not to say that we will not have something to say or that the British Government will not be co-guarantors and have a right to overview solemn international agreements, but ultimately responsibility must reside with the people elected in Northern Ireland and others must not constantly be blamed. I believe that matters are of such a pass now that some sort of intervention from the Taoiseach is justified.
Deputy Martin made the point very clearly that following the collapse of the Executive, the situation is now that there is no leadership at Executive level in Northern Ireland. The Ulster farmers want to know what subsidy the British taxpayer is going to have to put out when Brexit takes effect and the CAP is no longer there. What is the situation for the Erasmus programmes and the collaborations between universities here, in Northern Ireland and in Britain? What is the situation for the corporate tax rate, for which authority was devolved to the devolved Assembly? Why is it that in Scotland there is a devolved assembly and it is the same in Wales? They do not agree on everything, but they have a voice. Deputy McDonald said-----
They do not have D'Hondt. It is a completely different system of governance.
-----there is no singular voice. I am not asking for a singular voice. As Deputy Howlin rightly pointed out, there are a whole range of issues that are important to-----
The level of ignorance is astonishing.
-----the DUP and to the Sinn Féin Party. There may not be a singular voice, but there must be an agenda that they want reflected in the actions taken for the people that they represent.
The Scottish have a singular position.
It is true to say that Sinn Féin cannot continue not to accept that responsibility and to wait for somebody else to put the Executive together for it. It is time for parties to focus-----
The Taoiseach is a co-guarantor-----
-----on the real issues and say that these are the things we can agree on, this is what we do not agree on, but here is the complete agenda. In so far as my job is concerned-----
So that we can see people's-----
Park the Irish language, park Brexit, park dealing with the past-----
Deputies, please. The Taoiseach to conclude.
We will continue with our co-guarantorship of the Good Friday Agreement and help them where we can.
The Taoiseach is a waste of space, God bless him.
One can bring a horse to water but one cannot make it drink.
7. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagements with Mr. Donald Tusk on the Brexit negotiating mandate from the EU Council to the EU Commission. [16426/17]
8. Deputy Eamon Ryan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his Department’s engagements with the EU’s Brexit negotiating team, led by Mr. Michel Barnier. [16459/17]
9. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach the details of his approach to negotiations to the forthcoming discussions with fellow EU heads of government in view of the fact that Article 50 has been triggered by the United Kingdom to withdraw from the EU. [16732/17]
10. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the contributions he will be making on the Brexit negotiations at the April EU Council meeting. [16718/17]
11. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the way he and his Department are deepening the links with Ireland's EU partners following Article 50 being triggered. [16720/17]
12. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach the further discussion he had with the European chief negotiator for Brexit, Mr. Barnier; and if he sought specific reference for the island of Ireland in the EU 27 negotiating position. [16733/17]
13. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he has had further discussions with Mr. Barnier, European chief negotiator for Brexit; and if he has sought specific reference for the island of Ireland in the EU 27 negotiating position. [17712/17]
14. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagements with the President of the European Council, Mr. Donal Tusk, in respect of the European Council’s Article 50 negotiating mandate. [17836/17]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 14, inclusive, together.
As I have previously reported to the House, I have met with the head of the Commission Brexit task force, Mr. Michel Barnier, on a number of occasions, most recently on 2 March when I visited Brussels. We also continue to have regular ministerial and official-level engagement with Mr. Barnier and the task force, particularly through our permanent representation in Brussels.
I see the President of the European Council, Mr. Donald Tusk, regularly at meetings of the European Council. My most recent bilateral meeting with him was in Brussels on 2 March. Over recent months, I have continued my intensive programme of strategic engagement on Brexit. In addition to Mr. Tusk and Mr. Barnier, I have met with the President of the European Commission, Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, and the President of the European Parliament, Mr. Antonio Tajani. I have also held bilateral meetings with a number of EU counterparts, including the leaders of France, Spain, Poland, Malta, Cyprus and Belgium. Most recently, I met with Chancellor Merkel in Berlin on Thursday, 6 April, when we had a very constructive discussion about the upcoming negotiations. Of course, I also speak regularly with my EU colleagues in the margins of the scheduled and the informal meetings of the European Council.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for European Affairs have both also been engaging in extensive outreach with EU partners, while other Government Ministers continue to engage with their own EU counterparts. There has also of course been ongoing extensive engagement at senior official level.
In all these meetings, we have highlighted and explained in detail our particular concerns arising from Brexit in relation to Northern Ireland, the Good Friday Agreement, the Border and citizenship issues and have stressed the need to reflect those in the negotiating guidelines and the final agreement. I very much welcome the fact that the guidelines, circulated by Mr. Tusk on 31 March, highlight these issues and identify the aim of protecting the peace process and avoiding a hard Border. This is the positive outcome of the Government's patient and careful work over recent months. The guidelines will be discussed at ministerial and senior official level ahead of the European Council on 29 April.
Although we regret the UK's decision to leave the EU, we have been preparing solidly for a long time and we are ready for the negotiations ahead. We understand our concerns and have a clear sense of our priorities, including in relation to trade and the economy. Now that the EU guidelines have issued, the Government is preparing a consolidated policy paper setting out our approach to the forthcoming negotiations. This will be published later this month. Ireland will be part of the EU 27 team and we look forward to working with our EU partners to ensure the negotiations are conducted in a calm and constructive way and that we achieve the best possible result for our country, our citizens and our businesses.
I have finalised a meeting with the leader of the Netherlands, Mr. Mark Rutte, and the Prime Minister of Denmark, Prime Minister Rasmussen. I think that is to go ahead on 21 April. We are the three countries that are indicated to be the most adversely affected by Brexit. I intend to have direct discussions with these prime ministers in the Hague.
It is reported in today's Financial Times that the 27 EU member states are set to approve tough draft Brexit guidelines, among which would be that Britain will have to accept EU laws, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and pay a determined amount in budget fees if Britain is to seek even a gradual transition from the Single Market. Is there any agreement within the EU 27 on the negotiating mandate? Is there a strategy for an interim deal after the two-year negotiating period as part of the negotiating strategy or has the Taoiseach a view on that?
With regard to the view expressed in this House many times of a bespoke deal for Northern Ireland, is there any progress on that? Does the Taoiseach have any further thoughts on how EU citizens living in Northern Ireland post-Brexit will vindicate their EU citizenship and Irish citizenship, though they will live at that stage outside the borders of the EU?
The next question is in the name of Deputy Joan Burton.
Are we going to take answers first?
There are 13 minutes left so if we wish-----
If we go through everybody, we will have lost the first question.
It is all about Brexit.
It is all on the one topic. It is up to the Deputies.
I will say to Deputy Howlin that the priorities he mentioned have all been referred to in the letter from Prime Minister May to Mr. Tusk triggering Article 50. They have been referred to extensively in the European Parliament paper and have been referred to specifically in the draft regulations published by the European Council and Mr. Tusk. Deputy Howlin mentioned the question of the charge that applies here in respect of Britain. There are principles and modalities here. Nothing has been agreed in this regard.
Is there a sum agreed?
I have seen reports ranging from low double digits to higher double digits. There has been no detailed discussion about these figures and no outcome has been agreed on it.
Will there have to be agreement on the sum to move on?
It is the methodology they are considering in regard to how one might arrive at what the charge would be in respect of participation in the European Union and contracted payments going forward when Britain decides to leave. I have seen the comments from the British Government in respect of the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights. They are issues that have not been decided but comments have been made on them by members of the British Government.
What is going to happen? As the Deputy is aware, the divorce proceedings will be under way for two years and that means a determination of what might be due and the question of the issues the Deputy raised. That will be followed by the question of what is done with European Union citizens who live in Britain and British citizens who live in Europe. For example, there are over 1 million British people living in Spain and a serious number of people of EU nationalities living in Britain.
As the Deputy knows, under the Good Friday Agreement everybody in Northern Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship and, therefore, European citizenship. The question is on how we deal with this when we do not envisage a return to a hard border, which is the clear political understanding. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will know this very well given where he lives and the county he represents. We do not want a return to the sectarianism or violence we had in those years. That will require creativity and a bit of imagination to deal with it.
Last week I asked questions to each Minister and the Taoiseach about the number of people who are employed in each Department in working on Brexit. I did not expect to find huge numbers involved but I have to say I was shocked at the replies of the Taoiseach and his fellow Ministers. For example, in a very complicated area, the Department of Justice and Equality, which, as the Taoiseach has just said, has very serious responsibilities, not least in regard to the peace process, the division is headed up by an assistant secretary and there is an existing team of 11. The Department of Justice and Equality has always had a big permanent representation, as Deputy Martin will know. Does the Taoiseach know what is being added to the team for Brexit? It is the powerful sum of one official.
Many of us in the House have experience of being involved in government. When we, and Fianna Fáil on previous occasions, were involved in the development of the Irish EU Presidency, as the Taoiseach will recall, people were brought in - some on a part-time basis and some for a limited period - to beef up the Irish Presidency both in the permanent representation in Brussels and in the individual Departments. I recall the Taoiseach speaking with some justifiable pride about it and Fianna Fáil in government also having justifiable pride in this regard.
Go raibh maith agat. I want to accommodate all.
I have a book with me which I will give to the Taoiseach. It shows nothing in respect of the Department of Defence and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs has nobody. Will the Taoiseach explain this?
I will explain it. There have been over 400 meetings held-----
I am not talking about meetings.
Order, please.
What Deputy Burton seems to want here is that we would just employ numbers. I am giving her the first output, which is the triggering of Article 50 and the letter from the British Prime Minister. That reflects all the priorities we have, as a country. It is embellished by the British Government saying it does not want to do anything to harm Ireland. It talks about no return to a hard border, about the common travel area and about the traditionally very close relationships we have in so many ways with the United Kingdom. It is reflected in the European Parliament document and in the document from the 27 as outlined by President Tusk. Does Deputy Burton think that happened just like that? Does she not understand that every Minister, Minister of State and senior official is engaged on this business?
That was not in their answers.
One can have big numbers but the outcome here is the first tranche of what we know we need, which is that our priorities are reflected in these documents.
That is not what they had to say.
Gibraltar is in there and, obviously, there is a reference to Cyprus. Every Prime Minister and every government knows that we have a single peace process and that there is a unique situation here. They know we are not going back to the Border of the past and they understand what the Good Friday Agreement is about. As Deputy Burton well knows, that does not happen just by assuming people will know about these things. Some 400 meetings have taken place.
Deputy Micheál Martin made the point to me before that if we need particular expertise brought in, it will be brought in and there will not be any objection. That is what will happen. As these negotiations become more formal, more complex and more concentrated, we will have access to the people we will need. For instance, in the area of fisheries, the Common Fisheries Policy is exceptionally complex and complicated and cannot be unravelled layer by layer in the way other arrangements might be. We have geared up for this and, as needs be, personnel of experience, including those with specialist experience, can be brought in.
I would agree overall with Deputy Burton's point. I am concerned about the level of capacity behind the effort both diplomatically and in key areas, as well as in regard to bringing back people who have a lot of experience with Europe. It seems to me we should tap into that experience, particularly that of former diplomats, former civil servants and people in the private sector who could give advice to the Government.
The Taoiseach will have noticed that, yesterday, a large number of southern member states held the latest in a series of summit meetings on their approach to the Brexit negotiations. The idea that Ireland is unique or has a unique diplomatic campaign under way is a bit of a misnomer given that many others are at it as well. It is also now clear that other countries are seeking specific changes to President Tusk's draft negotiating mandate. My sense is that, for some reason, the Taoiseach is refusing to request that the draft would mention Northern Ireland, other than to say the Good Friday agreement should be protected. As a general principle that is positive but it fails to confirm that what we are talking about also includes the key economic, social, cultural and constitutional dimensions of the peace settlement. I think close ongoing connections beyond the legally required provisions of the Agreement go to the core of the overall settlement and we need the Brexit terms to reflect this.
I also put it to the Taoiseach that he seems to be refusing to ask for a reference to the continued full EU citizenship of both current and future Northern Ireland citizens. I have been making the point for quite a long time that, in Northern Ireland, we will have the largest cohort of EU citizens outside of the European borders after Brexit and this should be reflected in the draft agreement. Will the Taoiseach confirm whether he is seeking changes to the draft negotiating text? If so, what changes is he seeking? Why will he not ask for a simple reference to being open to a special arrangements within Ireland that would protect economic and social ties across the Border?
We have 100 people in the permanent representation in Brussels. Their single focus now is Brexit and they are meeting officials every day about elements of this. The sections in every Department dealing with Brexit, be they small or large, are focusing on the issue that is really of importance to us.
The Deputy made the point in a different way that the fact there is no Executive in Northern Ireland means its voice is not out there in the way we would like, as has been referred to by the British Prime Minister. We refer to it in the sense of protection and co-guarantorship of the Good Friday Agreement and of no return to a hard border, and we make the case about the intertwining of economies on a daily basis. Some 600 million litres of milk are produced in Northern Ireland and brought down and processed by Aurivo and others, and some of it goes back across the Border again in semi-processed form. There are 30,000 to 40,000 people who cross the Border every day and hundreds of thousands of truck movements every year. These are issues of real concern to us.
That is why I am glad, for starters, that these issues are part of the written priorities from a European point of view. Michel Barnier had a meeting with the Irish Farmers Association yesterday in Brussels to deal with elements of this cross-Border activity and cross-Border trade.
Deputy Micheál Martin, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald and the other leaders of the groups should note we are not hiding anything here. We issue the full up-to-date Brexit report on an as-needs-be basis. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Dara Murphy, and every other Minister meet their counterparts. They have done so and will continue to do so. There is a very big agenda here.
Of all the countries, Ireland is the best prepared. Every other country in Europe knows just how assiduously we have prepared for this. The first outcome is our references of our priorities in the draft negotiating document, which I hope will be signed off on 29 April.
The simple repetition of "no return to a hard Border" does not achieve no return to a hard Border. If we are to take Ms Theresa May and the Tories at their word, we are walking very close to a return to a hard Border. The Taoiseach will know, because we debated it in the Dáil, that a motion was passed proposing we seek special designated status for the North of Ireland within the European Union. That is the view of this House. What progress has the Taoiseach made in advancing that proposition? When does he propose to publish his consolidated document outlining his negotiating strategy? I do not know whether it will be a White Paper or what colour paper it will be on. I cannot discern any coherent strategy in the Taoiseach's approach. Perhaps that was evidenced by Deputy Burton's query on staffing levels but I do not believe it is just a matter of staffing levels.
The Taoiseach should be seeking a strengthening of the Council guidelines. Contrast the reference to Gibraltar with the reference to the North of Ireland and the island of Ireland. Gibraltar is a special case and has very special circumstances. It has a contested border, an internationally binding peace agreement and the constitutional and legal framework and architecture that go with that. Brexit will sabotage that. Let us not put any sugar coating on it.
I do not agree at all with this. Gibraltar does not have an internationally legally binding agreement. What happens to the status of Gibraltar is a matter between the United Kingdom and the Kingdom of Spain. That is a bilateral matter. Gibraltar joined the European Union when Britain joined the European Union.
We already know about - it is referred to in the documents from Prime Minister May, the European Parliament and the European Council - the unique and particular very special circumstances that apply in the case of Northern Ireland because of the peace process and the Border, in respect of which there will be no return of a hard Border. These are already special status arrangements. The Deputy does not seem to want to appreciate or accept it. Everybody in Northern Ireland is, under the Good Friday Agreement, entitled to Irish citizenship and therefore to EU citizenship. This matter is very clear under the Good Friday Agreement. Owing to the intertwining of the economies, I will say it again that there will be no return to a hard Border. The Deputy will keep repeating her mantra and I will tell her that the Irish Government's view, which is shared by the British Government, is that there will be no return to a hard Border, but it will require creativity and a bit of imagination to make this function, depending on the trading relationship that will apply after the divorce between the United Kingdom and the European Union. That is where the measures of real negotiation and complicated and difficult discussions will take place.
What about special status?
The nature of that agreement will decide the nature of the relationship between the European Union and the United Kingdom. Britain wants to have as close a relationship as possible with us. We support that because that would suit us.
