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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 29 Jun 2017

Vol. 956 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

School Accommodation

I congratulate the Minister of State on his new role, but I am disappointed that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, is not here to answer in respect of the case of the Holy Family school, as it is one of serious concern. It really upsets me, as it does the families and staff of the Holy Family school in Cootehill, County Cavan, who are watching tonight's discussions, to be here yet again discussing the construction, or lack thereof, at the Holy Family school. We need action, not excuses. There are 168 students with special needs from across counties Cavan and Monaghan attending this school. It is the only school of its type in the area. It provides much needed education for pupils and students with disabilities, but currently they are in substandard learning and working conditions. While the school continues to do exemplary work, it simply does not have the proper facilities or resources to cater for all of the pupils' critical needs. These students have everything stacked against them in life and it is simply not fair to expect them, their teachers or their parents to continue to work in the current facility. The project to provide additional permanent accommodation must be progressed without any further delays for the sake of the children, the parents and the staff.

In 2015, the Department of Education and Skills gave the project relating to the Holy Family school in Cootehill full approval for funding. However, there have been many delays and now, in 2017, there is still no new school. I understand that the school submitted the relevant documentation on the stage 2b submission to the Department in April only to be notified five weeks later that it is not in the right order. Is this Government seriously delaying the construction because the information the Department requires is not in the preferred order?

As part of the new build, the school and the prefabs will have to be moved to temporary accommodation, the site of which was secured in June 2016. The Department of Education and Skills has been paying rent for that site for the past 12 months but nothing has happened. Planning permission for the school was granted in 2013 but, to date, it has not been able to proceed. If this continues, the school will have to get an extension of the planning permission. Children are suffering. Their safety, health and education are at risk each and every day that the construction is postponed. Being the only school of its type in counties Cavan and Monaghan, the Holy Family school is and should be a high priority as it accommodates a significant number of students with disabilities. In September, the school will have 48 children with moderate disabilities, 13 with multiple disabilities, 39 with severe and profound disabilities, and 68 with autism spectrum disorder, ASD.

During the past 15 years - it has taken this long to get through the planning process - the number of students in the school has increased. This means trying to accommodate more pupils in already cramped conditions. In 2013, the school had 129 pupils enrolled; now it is up to 168. The school has seen an increase of 11 staff members in the same years. Despite this growth, the school facilities remain in substandard condition and it is completely inadequate as an educational facility. The Holy Family school main building was opened in 1973 and it is really starting to show its age. There are leaks in many of the junior classrooms, the roof is constantly being patched up, some of the ceilings are leaking and the walls are black. There are wooden laths holding up the ceiling and mould growing down the walls. The toilets, bathing area and plumbing system are creaking at the seams. Besides this, there are inadequate parking facilities, forcing the staff to park on the road outside the homes of the neighbouring houses, causing chaos.

Enough is enough. We need a commitment and a guarantee right here right now from the Minister of State as to when the work will commence. Stop the bureaucratic nonsense that files are not in the preferred order.

The Minister, Deputy Bruton, sends his apologies that he cannot be present for this discussion. I am happy to replace him because this is a subject close to my heart. A few members of my extended family are in similar schools in County Kilkenny.

The Minister thanks the Deputy for raising this matter as it provides an opportunity to outline the current position of Holy Family special school, Cootehill. The school is a multi-denominational, coeducational special needs school that caters for pupils aged from four to 18 years with moderate or profound learning difficulties and students with autism. This project is included in the six-year programme announced on 17 November 2015 to go to tender and construction. The original brief was to provide a 21-classroom school. Following a meeting with the Department of Education and Skills in December 2015, the school and its design team were authorised to increase the scale of the project to deliver a new 26-classroom school. On 18 November 2016 the design team submitted a stage 2a addendum report to the Department for review. The review was completed by the end of January 2017 and the board of management and its design team were authorised to complete stage 2b, the developed design stage. This stage includes obtaining planning permission, a fire safety certificate and a disability access certificate. All statutory approvals have now been secured for the project.

Construction will require moving the existing school to temporary accommodation on a nearby site. The move will be an integral part of the school building project and will form part of the main contract. Planning permission for moving accommodation was secured in August 2016. The fire certificate and disability access certificate were subsequently secured and the Department has authorised the signing of a lease by the school to secure the movement to the other site. The stage 2b detailed design report was recently submitted to the Department by the board of management and its design team. Following receipt of that submission, the Department authorised the board of management to instruct its design team to commence the pre-qualification process for the assessment of suitably qualified contractors to which the project can be tendered. This authorisation was granted by the Department in order to expedite the tender process for this project by running the pre-qualification in tandem with the finalisation of stage 2b. The design team has commenced this process and the closing date for the e-tenders advertisement was 19 June 2017. Following examination of the stage 2b report, some additional items have been requested by the Department, not just in terms of the order in which they were put in. Additional items were requested. A revised submission has recently been received by the Department. Upon review of the revised submission, the Department will revert to the board of management with regard to the further progression of the project at that time.

I accept what the Minister of State has said but for a review to take five weeks and then be sent back to a board of management or school is an issue. I accept the Minister of State's bona fides to the effect that it is more than just labelling. I have read the document and the reply. The main thrust of it is labelling and how it is presented. There is not much about additional information. My concern is that it will take another five weeks to decide whether it is right. As a result of the increasing numbers attending Holy Family, the school is bursting at the seams and now is located at two sites. The Holy Family school was built with seven classrooms, although we now have seven classes squeezed into the existing building, with five prefabs on the grounds, and seven classes located at the White Star, which was formerly a hostel. The hostel is on the main street in Cootehill, far removed from the main building. It is not fair for these students to be asked to conduct classes and be educated in a building that was formerly a hostel. In order to make the best of an extremely appalling situation, they have now converted available space, such as the PE room and their small therapy rooms, to classrooms. As a result of the necessary alterations to the school, there is no space for visiting therapists. There is not even space to give children time-outs, a regular occurrence in a school like the Holy Family school. Apart from the main building itself, the senior school is in rented accommodation in the former hostel on the main street in Cootehill far away from the main building. In September there will be seven classrooms housed over three storeys, with a total of 58 pupils and 22 staff crammed into every nook and cranny. These conditions are outrageous and appalling. The Holy Family school does not want to have to introduce waiting lists for the first time in its history. As the facilities are not able to accommodate all the children at present, undesirable measures might be taken in September and children might have to go onto a waiting list.

I thank the Deputy. She obviously feels passionately about the issue. I have been a Member of the Oireachtas for 15 years. The answer to this Topical Issue matter is positive news in the sense that the revised submission was received by the Department on 28 June. At a previous stage, it took six weeks for the request to be made. I am told the average time is between ten and 12 weeks so it is moving faster in this instance than it does in the average case. In terms of the accommodation on the main street in Cootehill, which is a town I know a little, it is a temporary measure until the building is constructed. At this stage-----

It is a temporary, unsafe building for them to be in.

If it is fire certified, which it is, and has planning permission-----

I do not know how the school is even certified.

Those are the necessary requirements it has to have. It is a temporary provision of accommodation until the school is built. This is progressing quite well. I accept the Deputy's point about the five weeks but I hope that in the ten to 12-week period there will be a positive response to it. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Bruton.

I do not want to be back here talking about this again.

Military Aircraft

It is somewhat poignant that we are having this discussion on the day the Italian Government announced it cannot take any more migrants. In the region of 10,000 people have already made the journey to Italy, many of them fleeing war in the Middle East. Ireland is a country that claims to be neutral and we cannot shake our heads and say it is nothing to do with us when we continue to allow Shannon Airport to be used on a regular basis by the US military. On Monday 5 June, an inconspicuous US Air Force special operations aeroplane left Shannon heading for the Middle East. The C-146A Wolfhound, 12-3060, looks like a normal civilian plane but is far from it. This aircraft is used to support special forces operating in war zones. It is not me saying this. The US Air Force says the C-146A's "primary mission is to provide U.S. Special Operations Command flexible, responsive and operational movement of small teams needed in support of Theater Special Operations Commands". Air Force Special Operations Command aircrews conduct air lift missions to prepared and semi-prepared airfields around the world according to the US Air Force. Does this mean that Shannon Airport is now considered by the US to be one of its own prepared or semi-prepared military airfields? The US Air Force's website says that the plan supports overseas contingency operations across four geographic combatant commands, in other words engaged in active fighting with enemy forces. In the first six months of this year, 22,000 US troops passed through Shannon and 377 exemptions to allow US troops carry weapons on civilian planes were granted. In the past 16 years, 2.5 million armed US troops have landed in Shannon and taken off again for war. In the past week, our new Taoiseach reaffirmed the Irish Government's commitment to neutrality in a media question when he was in Brussels. When he was asked if the time had come for a revision of our neutrality he said:

No. Ireland's position on neutrality is longstanding. We believe that by being a country that is neutral but not being part of any military alliance, that it actually makes us stronger in the world, that we're more respected ... beyond this continent, because we aren't members of NATO and we don't take part in military alliance, our focus is on other things, like development for example.

What are those assurances from the Taoiseach worth when we have a scenario in which 4,000 US troops a month pass through Shannon Airport? The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, told my colleague, Deputy Connolly, in February that providing overflight and landing facilities for the US military does not amount to a form of military alliance and that strict conditions are in place.

That is utter nonsense. We are sick hearing about what is not on the aircraft. We want to know what is on them and the only way to find out is by searching them.

I have no doubt the Minister of State, Deputy English, will tell me that the movement of troops is a matter for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, rather than the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, although he may yet prove me wrong in that regard. It is not good enough to kick this issue around Departments by claiming that these are civilian aeroplanes. They are militarily contracted aircraft and, as such, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade should take responsibility for them and ensure that they are searched. While strict conditions are supposed to apply to these flights, the Department does not know whether they are being met because the aircraft are not searched and we will not have certainty until they are searched. What we do know is that these flights are not transporting people halfway around the world on their holidays.

As the Deputy will understand, my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, is engaged in important business elsewhere and is unable to reply in person. For this reason, I will respond on his behalf. As I do not have details of the aircraft to which the Deputy referred, I cannot respond to the specific matters raised by the Deputy. I was asked to respond to a more general issue.

I welcome the opportunity to reaffirm the Government's policy on landings by foreign military aircraft and reiterate its absolute commitment to maintaining our policy of military neutrality. Responsibility for the regulation of foreign aircraft landing in or overflying the State is shared between Departments. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade has primary responsibility for the regulation of foreign military aircraft, while the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport leads on regulation of foreign civil aircraft. As the issue for debate is addressed to the former Minister, I will confine my focus to foreign military aircraft landing at Shannon Airport.

Successive Governments have made landing facilities at Shannon Airport available to the United States for many years. The facility to land is also made available to military aircraft from other countries. It is for reasons of geography that the majority of landings are made by US aircraft. Since 2013, permission to land has been granted in respect of requests from more than 20 other countries also. Landings are permitted on condition that the requests satisfy a number of conditions which have been set out in this House. Aircraft must be unarmed, must carry no arms, ammunition or explosives, must not engage in intelligence gathering and the flights must not form part of military exercises or operations. These conditions apply to landings by all foreign military aircraft, including US military aircraft.

On 24 November last, the House had the opportunity to debate the Thirty-Fifth Amendment of the Constitution (Neutrality) Bill 2016. While the Government opposed the Bill, the debate was a valuable opportunity to make perfectly clear that the Government remains absolutely committed to Ireland's long-standing policy of military neutrality. As the then Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, informed the House during that debate, Ireland's foreign policy statement, The Global Island, clearly indicates that our policy of military neutrality remains a core element of foreign policy. There are no plans to change this long-standing policy.

The Government permits foreign military aircraft to land at Shannon Airport only if they comply with these conditions, which are of the strictest nature and which are imposed precisely because of our military neutrality. When requesting permission for a landing, the United States, like all other states seeking permission to land aircraft here, must indicate in writing that the proposed landing meets the conditions. Bilateral relations with friendly nations, including the US, are founded on trust and information provided by diplomatic missions is accepted in good faith as being accurate. Moreover, in accordance with international practice, foreign military aircraft that are granted permission to land in Ireland are not subject to inspection. I hope this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.

I mean no disrespect to the Minister of State in saying his reply has an incredibly familiar ring to it, probably because I have heard it many times before. He will be aware that in a High Court case in 2003, Mr. Justice Kearns ruled that a neutral state may not permit the movement of large numbers of troops or munitions of one belligerent state through its territory en route to a theatre of war with another state. Shannonwatch gathers information daily on militarily contracted aircraft, which are described as civilian aircraft and move groups of troops from one belligerent state to a theatre of war, the devastating consequences of which have given us a refugee crisis greater than any previous refugee crisis.

The Government hides behind its conditions that military aircraft landing here must not be armed, must not be involved in military exercises, etc., but these conditions do not apply to aircraft contracted by the US military. It is a matter for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport to issue permits for such landings. In that respect, I welcome the statement by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, that he will have an examination carried out of definitions of civilian and state aircraft and of the monitoring, inspections and oversight in place in this regard. However, I want to know what the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade proposes to do on this issue. The previous Minister, Deputy Flanagan, spoke about keeping the matter under review. What does this mean given that we do not have evidence of any form of review taking place? Does the Department have plans to search aircraft? If not, what is the problem with searching them, even if only to prove us wrong? Why did thousands of troops from the United States transit through Shannon Airport in the past month? Why were exemptions obtained for hundreds of personal weapons during these flights if they are not engaged in military exercises? Someone is spending a hell of a lot of money to move troops from one corner of the world to another almost twice daily. We will be responsible if we do not start exercising our responsibility and examine what is going on.

The Deputy contends that allowing US military aircraft to land at Shannon Airport amounts to a change in or weakening of our policy of neutrality which enjoys wide public support and has been pursued by successive Governments for more than half a century. As has been repeatedly stated in the House, that policy has not changed. Ireland is not a member of a military alliance and the Government has no intention of changing that long-standing policy. The facility granted to the United States and other countries to land aircraft at Shannon Airport is transparent and open and the strict conditions that apply to such landings are a matter of public record, having been set out many times in the House.

The practical implementation of the conditions for granting permission for landings by foreign military aircraft is guided by and reflects Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality to which the Government is full committed. This policy has gone hand in hand with our belief that international engagement is critical to enhancing co-operation and reducing conflict in the world.

Bank Branch Closures

Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Aire Stáit. I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, on his appointment. I know how much it means to him and I have no doubt he will be highly capable in his new post and I wish him well. I hope that the Government will last a few years and that he will have an opportunity to shine in his role.

The withdrawal of a number of services from small rural bank branches across the country is causing widespread anger, concern and frustration among business people and the elderly. This is a serious problem in the Roscommon-Galway constituency I represent. Bank of Ireland has proposed to withdraw counter staff and cash facilities from a number of rural branches as part of a move to introduce an advice and self-service type model. Yesterday, my constituency colleagues and I met officials from Bank of Ireland in Leinster House. Unfortunately, the bank is not for turning on this issue. We must shout "Stop" and fight back against this retrograde step.

Small rural bank branches are under threat. The problems in my constituency are in Dunmore and Ballygar, County Galway, and Elphin and Strokestown, County Roscommon. The removal of counter staff and cash facilities would place another major obstacle in the way of businesses which are already struggling to survive and operate in rural areas. I am sure the Minister of State will be aware of such businesses in his constituency. It is important that bank services continue.

I have major security concerns about the banks' proposal that cash services be made available through a courier. Every time a business service is withdrawn, it undermines the ability of small businesses to survive. Many rural businesses are already crippled with rising commercial rates and appalling broadband connectivity. It beggars belief that the banking sector now proposes to place another obstacle in their way.

We should be encouraging and supporting small businesses in rural Ireland, not making them continually jump through hoops. Take for example Dunmore, County Galway, where business people are rightly up in arms. They are fearful that the removal of cashier services will impact on the elderly, resulting in people taking their business out of the region. That is what will happen. For many rural towns like Dunmore, Elphin, Strokestown and Ballygar, the bank was a major focal point and brought a great deal of spin-off business to their regions.

The withdrawal of a number of services in rural branches severely impacts on the elderly, many of whom may not be computer literate or have an online presence. There is a major push by the banking sector to reduce staff numbers as part of a cost-cutting exercise and replace them with technology. There is a major emphasis on trying to move customers towards an online presence with limited or no human interaction at branch level. This will not work for everyone. Rural counties like Roscommon and Galway have a significantly higher percentage of older people, who will be alienated by this latest move to withdraw services from rural bank branches. What are we going to have next? Will there be drive-thru banks? If high-tech banks with video tellers became the only option, they would not work in Roscommon because we do not have broadband connectivity.

The Minister of State is well aware of the situation. I admit that banks are there to make a profit, but we must address this issue. I await the Minister of State's reply with interest.

I thank the Deputy for his kind remarks. The Minister cannot attend. He was at Dublin Castle today and was present in the Chamber for an earlier debate, but he has had to step out. I am happy to take this matter in his stead.

The issue the Deputy has highlighted about the diminution of services in rural areas is a real one, but he also acknowledged that the State had a 14% share in Bank of Ireland, so the idea that the State can tell it which branches to keep open and closed does not arise. The Deputy correctly referred to the banking sector reducing costs. The major onus for the past eight years has been on trying to have a functioning banking sector, one that is profitable and can stand on its own feet without needing the support of the taxpayer.

I should highlight that, notwithstanding the State's shareholdings in the domestic banks, the Minister for Finance has no direct function in their commercial decisions, including those that form part of the relationship between the banks and their customers. Decisions of this nature are matters for the banks' boards and management. The Minister has responsibility for the banks being run on a commercial, cost-effective, regulated and independent basis so as to ensure their value as assets to the State. Accordingly, it would not be appropriate for the Minister to intervene in actions taken by the banks in matters of this nature.

Relationship frameworks that define the nature of the relationship between the Minister and each of the banks have been specified. These frameworks are available on the website of the Department of Finance. In the case of Bank of Ireland, the State has a 14% minority shareholding. Notwithstanding this, officials in the Department have been provided with briefing material specifically by Bank of Ireland relating to developments in its branch network. I will provide the salient points.

The bank's customers are rapidly changing the way in which they bank - this is similar to the post office network - just as they are changing the way they buy goods or services online and communicate with one another. Only 3% of the bank's customers' total transactions are conducted over the counter, with 97% of all transactions taking place through other channels. Every month, the bank has 8 million interactions with customers via its mobile app and 14 million interactions through the mobile app, online banking and contact centres combined. In addition, the use of credit and debit card and contactless banking continues to grow, with demand for cheques, foreign currency and coin services continuing to reduce significantly.

The bank comments that, when it examines trends over time within a branch's catchment area and sees a consistent decrease in counter activity, it reconfigures the branch to support how customers are using it. This involves moving staff from behind the counter directly onto the floor where they can provide advice and assistance to customers, including in the use of self-service options. The bank advises that this change has been successful in a growing number of branches, where it has seen an increase in transactions happening in the branches through the enhanced availability of self-service options. The bank has highlighted that, in branches where staff move from behind the counter onto the floor, customers will continue to be provided with a comprehensive range of products and services, the ability to lodge and withdraw cash from easy-to-use self-service devices and access to online and phone services. The changes will also enable greater availability of branch staff to provide personalised financial and banking advice.

Foreign currency exchange and coin transaction services will no longer be available in these branches. If customers still require a counter service, the bank will introduce them to the branch of their choice locally.

Bank of Ireland has highlighted its retention of a strong nationwide presence of approximately 250 branches and 16 additional banking outlets. It maintains that it continues to improve its customer offerings and is investing €10 million in the branch network this year. It also maintains that it understands that business and retail customers increasingly require access to 24-seven facilities for lodgement and withdrawal.

I must ask the Minister of State to conclude.

Can I take it that the rest of the response will be read into the record?

It will, but the Minister of State will have a chance to make a second response as well.

I am happy with that and I know that the Minister of State will endeavour to give me an honest reply. I am not surprised with the answer that I have been given already. The Minister of State is right, in that the Government's part ownership of the bank is small and it cannot tell the bank what to do but, as a rural Deputy, he will realise that there is a larger problem. I presume that he runs constituency clinics. I happened to hold one last Monday in the town of Glenamaddy of "Four Roads to Glenamaddy" fame. It lost its bank some time back. Most of its people are served by Bank of Ireland in Castlerea, but they have received notice that business lodgements can no longer be made over the counter after 12.30 p.m. on a Monday or whatever, which is inconvenient. The bank will argue that business lodgements can be made through machines and that there will be a service. We could argue that back and forth.

The great community in Glenamaddy, including its business people and community leaders, has made the point to me that the removal of a bank from a town like Glenamaddy, Ballygar, Strokestown or Elphin creates a significant difficulty for the local economy. Banks are needed.

Maybe we have to start getting serious about post offices and credit unions. Yesterday, the bank insisted to me that it would not withdraw. I have to say that Bank of Ireland runs some good initiatives, for example, Enterprise Towns, and encourages people to get involved. Like the Minister of State, I have attended many such events. They are good but I fear that, if fewer customers attend a branch, we will be asking four or five years down the road what role the bank has.

As politicians, we all must get serious about having a banking system for rural towns and villages. Some good work is being done and some money is coming into communities, but we will lose out if we lose our banking services.

I will read the last paragraph of my statement into the record before responding directly. The bank has advised that the implementation of any change takes place on a phased basis in branches with a two-month period for comprehensive customer notification. Bank of Ireland has commented that it has a dedicated team committed to supporting vulnerable and elderly customers that provides additional support in the use of its digital and self-service options.

I acknowledge the Deputy's point about rural Ireland. I am surprised that we got a response to a Topical Issue debate from a commercial institution. There is a broader question about how we keep services in rural Ireland, whether that be via credit unions or post offices. Many have closed but, thankfully, many are still open. I believe the Government is actively considering how to create solutions in rural towns like those that the Deputy mentioned. Maybe I am wrong, but I understand that other financial institutions are in some of the towns in question, for example, Strokestown. In my county of Kilkenny, some of the mid-sized towns used to have both of the traditional main banks. In most cases now, however, one might be all that they have.

In some places there is no financial institution, which is a broader problem that must and will be addressed.

I thank the Minister of State.

Our next participant is not here.

I believe the issue was withdrawn or deferred.

The Topical Issue was deferred or withdrawn.

I believe it was deferred.

We will then move on to the next item of business. Is the Minister of State taking the next item?

Then we will suspend the House for a few minutes.

Sitting suspended at 7.30 p.m. and resumed at 7.32 p.m.
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