Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 14 Nov 2017

Vol. 961 No. 4

Order of Business

Deputy Seán Canney

Today’s business shall be No. 13, motion re Estimate provision for the horse and greyhound racing fund allocation for 2018, referral to committee; No. 14, motion re changes to Standing Orders 23, 25, 29A, 38, 110A and 140; and No. 5, Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill 2017 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' business shall be Second Stage of No. 46, Multi-Party Action Bill 2017, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday’s business shall be No. 27, Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 28, Health and Social Care Professionals (Amendment) Bill 2017 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 6, Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Bill 2017 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' business shall be Second Stage of No. 47, Housing (Homeless Families) Bill 2017, selected by the Labour Party.

Thursday’s business shall be No. 29, motion re the Sláintecare report by the Committee on the Future of Healthcare (resumed); No. 15, motion re further Revised Estimate - Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government; and No. 6, Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Bill 2017 - Second Stage (resumed). The committee report in the evening slot shall be No. 16, report entitled Scrutiny of the Banded Hours Contract Bill 2016 by the Joint Committee on Business, Enterprise and Innovation.

I refer to the first revised report of the Business Committee dated 13 November 2017 and in regard to today's business, it is proposed that:

(1) the motions re Estimate provision for the horse and greyhound racing fund allocation for 2018, referral to committee, and changes to Standing Orders 23, 25, 29A, 38, 110A and 140 shall be taken without debate; and

(2) Second Stage of the Multi-Party Action Bill 2017 shall conclude within two hours.

With regard to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that Second Stage of the Housing (Homeless Families) Bill 2017 shall conclude within two hours.

With regard to Thursday’s business, it is proposed that:

(1) the Dáil shall sit at 10 a.m. to take the resumed motion on the Sláintecare report as an additional committee report slot under Standing Order 91(2), to conclude after two hours and, if it concludes sooner, the Dáil shall suspend until 12 noon;

(2) the motion re further Revised Estimate – Vote 34 – Housing, Planning and Local Government shall be taken without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken immediately;

(3) there shall be a suspension of sitting on the conclusion of the voting block for 30 minutes.

(4) Oral Questions shall be taken not later than 4 p.m.; and

(5) the Dáil shall sit later than 7.48 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of proceedings on the report entitled, Scrutiny of the Banded Hours Contract Bill 2016.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals on foot of the Order of Business to be put to the House today. Is the proposal for dealing with today's business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Micheál Martin

There seems to be a lot of confusion and some degree of incoherence in respect of what the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, described as the bonkers situation of the outstanding pension anomalies whereby 42,000 people lose as much as €1,500 a year as a result of changes that were made back in 2012. The Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty, informed a meeting of the Select Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection - at which she was discussing the forthcoming social welfare Bill - that she recognises the problem and wants to fix it. She said it would be fixed in the short term and that she is going to bring proposals forward fairly quickly. She said she is busy preparing a memorandum for Cabinet. Today, it is reported that she is being forced to perform a U-turn. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, might well smile but that is what is being said. It is reported that there will not be any attempt to resolve this matter in the short term. In the context of the social welfare Bill, can the Taoiseach confirm whether the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, will be bringing proposals before the House in the context of resolving this issue and beginning the reversal of the policy initiative that took place in 2012 under her predecessor, Deputy Burton?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy will know that the various pension anomalies actually relate to four different sets of rules, some of which were changed in 2012 and some of which actually date back to 1961. The averaging rule dates back to 1961. The Minister for Finance's use of the word "bonkers" was in reference to the marriage bar, which ended in 1973 and which certainly was bonkers. That is a different issue again. The Minister for Finance has been extensively misquoted since then.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The context was fairly clear.

The Taoiseach

The situation will be rectified-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Taoiseach still has some work to do in the media.

Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin

A lot of it by the weekend.

The Taoiseach

-----by 2020 when we will introduce the new total contributions approach. Under that approach, it will not matter when a person made his or her contributions. Gaps will not matter. What will matter will be the number of contributions made over the period of someone's working life, namely, in the 50 years between the ages of 16 and 66. There will be generous provision to disregard periods of home caring. We are looking at some interim measures but the social welfare Bill, which was approved by Cabinet today, will implement the measures announced in the budget. It will not implement any of those interim measures because we do not yet have costing proposals to do so. We may not have these quite some time.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Many a woman will be dead before that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please. I call Deputy McDonald.

The Taoiseach

A memo on the social welfare Bill was approved by Cabinet. It has to do with the budget changes.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Ministers regularly acknowledge the precarious conditions of employment of workers in the retail sector. As the Taoiseach knows, if-and-when contracts, as they are known, are also rife in the journalism, education, health and construction sectors. Workers on contracts of this nature face massive difficulties in getting mortgages, planning their lives and planning their finances on a week-to-week basis. Today, the Mandate trade union has called on all Oireachtas Members to sign up to its Secure Hours - Better Future charter to end zero-hour and if-and-when contracts. I hope that the Taoiseach and his party will sign up to the charter. We are told that the employment (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, which is yet to be published, will resolve these contractual matters. However, there is already a Bill before the House that enjoys cross-party support after dozens of hours of debate, expert witness hearings and amendments recommended by the members of the jobs committee. Why introduce rival legislation? The Dáil will debate the committee's report on the Banded Hours Contracts Bill 2016 on Thursday. Will the Taoiseach and his Ministers support the progression of that Bill and, by so doing, give workers the security they deserve?

The Taoiseach

The Government will produce its own legislation in respect of this matter. It will be better legislation. The relevant Bill will be published in the next two to three weeks. In such circumstances, I encourage the Deputy to wait to see the Government's legislation and judge it after she has seen and read it. I know she will want to do that and will not want to reject it before she has seen it. It will be very much part of the drive forward by this Government, not just to aim for full employment but also to aim for better employment, better jobs, better terms and conditions, more security and pension rights for everyone.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach needs to take anti-patronising classes.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I will start where the Taoiseach ended. The programme for Government includes a commitment to reduce poverty levels by supporting an increase in the minimum wage to €10.50 per hour. Despite the House having passed a Labour Party motion 18 months ago to increase the national minimum wage incrementally until it was pegged at 60% of median earnings, we have seen a 40 cent increase in the minimum wage with the next mite of it not to be paid until January. Meanwhile, the living wage itself continues to be revised upwards in light of continuing housing prices, in particular, and now stands at €11.70 an hour. Leaving aside this recommendation for a living wage of €11.70, when will the Government target of €10.50 an hour be reached?

The Taoiseach

The national minimum wage is set by the Government on the advice of the Low Pay Commission. The Deputy will be aware that this legislation was what the Labour Party-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Demanded.

The Taoiseach

-----supported and very much drove forward in the previous Government. Having set up that system, I am sure the Deputy would not want us to move to a different one.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

The terms of reference should be tweaked, however.

The Taoiseach

When the Low Pay Commission calculates the recommended national minimum wage, it takes into account several factors, including the views of the employers and the impact it might have on employment. Those who calculate the living wage do not take into account the views of employers. Any reasonable person in this House will agree that when setting wages, one should take into account the views of employers as to what impact it might have on employment levels. There is nothing lower than no wage at all.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The programme for Government refers to the empowerment of women and ending inequalities in the workplace. In light of that, has the Government any legislation to deal with the situation reported in the past several months where there are delays of up to four years in dealing with harassment and inequality cases at the Workplace Relations Commission? For example, NUI women lecturers have taken a case but have been waiting two years for it to be heard.

During the austerity period, the Equality Tribunal and several other organisations were disbanded and merged into the Workplace Relations Commission. Since then, the Government, as well as the previous one, has overseen a situation where a message has been sent out to women that there is not much point in taking a case because one would be waiting years and may well be in new employment etc. How does the Taoiseach expect people to take it seriously when this situation pertains?

The Taoiseach

I am not sure if legislation is the solution to backlogs in the Workplace Relations Commission. It may be related to staffing levels or resources within the organisation itself. I will ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation to correspond with the Deputy on the matter.

Deputy Michael Harty

The programme for Government states, "We will continue the process of dismantling the HSE, evolving it into a Health Commission". Following a Cabinet meeting on 13 October, the Minister for Health stated there are plans to establish a governing board to oversee HSE performance, which is in keeping with the Sláintecare report. Does this indicate that the process of dismantling the HSE is now no longer the Government's policy? Will there be legislation to reconstitute the HSE board to ensure it can be accountable for the HSE's performance?

The Taoiseach

In light of the publication of the all-party Sláintecare report, the Minister for Health, with the support of the Government, decided to follow the reform advocated by that report, rather than what is contained in the programme for Government. The Minister for Health has approval to draft legislation to re-establish the HSE board. I do not have a date for it but he has authorisation to do so.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I wish to raise two pieces of promised legislation, the first of which is the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015. There is concern there will be yet another long delay in the Seanad when consultation is taking place. Will the Taoiseach give an indication of the timescale to which he is working?

It was expected that this would be done and dusted by Christmas. Is that still a possibility or to what timescale is the Government working?

In respect of the Education (Admissions to Schools) Bill-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may deal with only one piece of legislation.

The Taoiseach

The Public Health (Alcohol) Bill is very close to my heart. The Deputy and I are architects of it and I am very keen for it to pass through the Oireachtas as quickly as possible. It has completed Committee Stage in the Seanad. The Government anticipated it would complete all Stages in the Seanad and, hopefully, be introduced into the Dáil before the recess but, if that is not to be the case, we expect it to be concluded early next year. The Deputy will appreciate the Government has a majority in neither the Seanad nor the Dáil. If it did, much more would be done much more quickly.

Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin

The programme for Government was published on 11 May 2016. Although I accept that many of the commitments therein are to be implemented over the lifespan of the Government, a time-bound commitment relates to the implementation of a task force in respect of personal budgets for those with a disability. Going by the three-month timeline for implementation, the task force should have been established on 13 August 2016, which was 15 months ago yesterday. While there are excellent service providers, we need to give individuals access to budgets that will give them more choice and independence. What progress has been made in respect of the task force? Has it been established? If so, what recommendations has it made?

The Taoiseach

I think it has been established but I may be incorrect. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, to answer the question by correspondence.

Deputy Declan Breathnach

There is a commitment in the programme for Government to provide enhanced and improved services for those with disabilities. All Members know that respite services are at crisis point across the country and in my county, where families and elderly parents are suffering. In my constituency, the effect on the budget in respect of Drumcar skews the moneys that have been provided for these types of services. Members have tabled parliamentary questions and proposed Topical Issue debates on the issue yet nothing is happening. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, is stonewalling the people of Louth on the issue and a similar situation pertains countrywide. When will the Government face up to the fact that there is a crisis in respite care for those with a disability?

The Taoiseach

There is no legislation promised on the matter-----

Deputy Declan Breathnach

It is in the programme for Government.

The Taoiseach

-----but funding for respite care will feature in the HSE service plan.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

It is almost five years since the motorised transport grant was closed to new entrants. On occasions too numerous to recollect, the Taoiseach's predecessor, Deputy Enda Kenny, informed me the matter was being dealt with. He said it was very complex, although I do not know why that would be so. However, he said it was being dealt with. Five years after the grant was closed to new entrants, can the Taoiseach tell me when it will be dealt with?

The Taoiseach

The new scheme will be legislated for in 2018.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The cost of criminal legal aid has long been an issue. Legislation to deal with this has been promised in the form of the criminal justice (legal aid) Bill. When is it likely to be brought before the House in order to give the issue a substantial airing?

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Charles Flanagan)

The matter is under consideration. I expect to be able to report to the House before the end of the year with a view to proceeding on the matter in 2018.

Deputy Martin Ferris

I raise an issue in respect of commitments in the programme for Government regarding respite and respite care and residential facilities for adult in need. Four families in the north Kerry area have been left in limbo. They are awaiting the approval of an application by St. John of God Kerry services for funding to buy a centre and staff it in order to provide residential facilities for four very dependent adults in need.

All their parents are in their 70s and, at this stage in their lives, they are in complete trauma as a result of not knowing who will take care of their loved ones when they are gone. I have been on about this for quite a considerable time. I am told the application has been made. When will that application be dealt with and will the money be made available to provide the centre and the services necessary for these adults in need of full-time care?

The Taoiseach

I do not know. There is no legislation promised on the matter and it is not a specific programme for Government commitment but I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, to respond to the Deputy.

Deputy John Curran

Regarding the issue of the contributory pension, last week the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty, stated in the House:

I committed to having my officials carefully examine the approaches we could take to address it. The process is actually very nearly completed. I had a meeting with my officials yesterday. I had hoped to bring the matter to the Cabinet today but I did not want to bring something that was ... three-quarters baked. I have no doubt I will have it [finished] in the next couple of days.

Did a report on this issue come to Cabinet today? Is it unrealistic for Members of this House, in light of these comments, to expect the issue to be addressed sooner rather than later? The Minister reiterated this comment on Thursday in committee. The Government does not require a majority in this House or the Upper House. This is a matter for the Government to act on, and the Minister indicated that on two occasions last week.

The Taoiseach

No report of that nature came to Cabinet today. As I indicated earlier, we have a solution, which is a new approach to calculating the State pension contributory, namely, the total contributions approach. It will come into effect in 2020. It will need to be legislated for. However, in the meantime, the Minister and her officials and officials of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform are exploring interim proposals. However, we do not have them worked up or costed yet, and that will take a number of weeks.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The legislation covering overcrowding in the private rented sector is very weak and in serious need of an overhaul. Recent reports show that some landlords have up to 15 people living in some rooms. This is an indictment and shows a lack of proper scrutiny and oversight in this sector. It shows there are still huge gaps in our legislation. Will the Taoiseach, his Cabinet or his Minister outline whether the Government is examining this? People's lives are being put at risk daily and it is all as a result of greed.

Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government (Deputy Eoghan Murphy)

Yes, we will bring forward legislation on overcrowding and other issues regarding the rental sector as part of our change management plan for the Residential Tenancies Board in the first half of next year.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Page 29 of the programme for Government promises to ensure that an appropriate balance is struck between the rights and interests of landlords and tenants. The amendments to the Residential Tenancies Act, which were rushed through the House last December, introduced a loophole that, as the Taoiseach knows, allows landlords to issue notices to quit where they are undertaking substantial renovations. Threshold has expressed serious concern that this loophole is being abused and is being fraudulently used in as many as 12% of current cases of notice to quit. Is either the Taoiseach or the Minister considering reviewing this and bringing forward amendments to close this loophole to protect tenants?

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

As I announced in September, I will bring forward a definition. We are at the final phases of clarifying that at present to close that loophole. If that needs to be put on a legislative footing, we will do that as well.

Deputy James Lawless

This week is Science Week, and we all share a belief in the fundamental value of research, innovation, discovery and teaching. We want to be positive about this, particularly in Science Week. However, we must also be realistic and, unfortunately, the rhetoric is not always based on fact. The Government's Innovation 2020 programme commits to a goal of 2.5% of GDP funding for research and development by 2020. We are barely halfway there. We hit 1.42% recently. The Nevin Economic Research Institute flagged this earlier this year as a serious risk to our economic progress. The Department's own figures suggest we are at the bottom of the European league table, and the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, admitted the same - that the target will not be met - at a budget night briefing. How does the Taoiseach propose to address this gap?

The Taoiseach

The figure the Deputy mentioned is 2.5% of GDP. That is €5 billion. That is a lot of money, and the country has many demands and other priorities at present, not least housing and some of the other issues others have raised.

Deputy James Lawless

Has the Government changed the targets?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Taoiseach

I cannot give the Deputy a timeline for this. What I can say is that we have moved from 30th place in the world in science and innovation up to tenth place, so we have made a lot of progress.

Deputy James Lawless

That is debatable.

The Taoiseach

Being able to set aside €5 billion for research and development, particularly in light of the enormous demands that we face in housing, health care and other areas, is going to take some time.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

The Western Development Commission announced this week that County Sligo has suffered the lowest level of employment growth of any county in the past five years. This figure does not surprise me or many others in the north west. I have raised this issue often in this House but there has been no improvement. The reality is that the recovery is barely noticeable in my constituency and it is clear that the Action Plan for Jobs is not working in Sligo and the surrounding region. Will the Taoiseach and, perhaps, the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation give consideration to these worrying new figures and indicate that this matter will be examined, quickly and in detail? I am concerned, as are others. As a Government Deputy, I am asked by many people in Sligo and the surrounding region about when we can expect jobs to be created there.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is correct that unemployment is down and employment is up in every county and region. However, progress in this regard is uneven and Sligo has not performed as well as other counties. It will be a priority of Government in the months and years ahead to ensure that those parts of the country where the recovery has been slow will experience an acceleration in their recovery. A big part of that will be investment in infrastructure, which I know is of particular importance to Sligo. I will ask the Tánaiste to give a more substantive response to Deputy McLoughlin when she returns from the Middle East.

Deputy Michael Moynihan

The programme for Government contains commitments to have open and more transparent Government for citizens. I spoke to the Taoiseach on two previous occasions about PRSI records for people who have made contributions but who now have to go through websites and so forth because records are not made available to citizens in paper form. The Taoiseach gave an indication five weeks ago that he would have this matter resolved. Has any progress been made with the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to allow citizens advancing towards pension age to have their records be made freely available?

The Taoiseach

I queried that but have not received a reply. I will follow up on it now that the Deputy has reminded me.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Minister for North Korea, red tape, new regulations and stiffer penalties has made an order to severely punish unaccompanied provisional drivers. They have been waiting for driving tests for long periods. He clearly does not understand what it means to live in rural Ireland where people do not have access to public transport. Would it not be more productive if the Minister had made an order for speed limiters to be fitted to these cars while they are being driven by those on provisional licences? That would have made much more sense. There are speed limiters in lorries and buses and these could also be used in cars. These youngsters have to travel. I firmly believe that a young fellow is entitled to one chance and that every young fellow deserves that chance. If young fellows blot their copybooks, they can be nailed then but not before that.

The Taoiseach

That is not a bad suggestion. The legislation will be before the House shortly. The Deputy will have the opportunity to speak on it and, perhaps, table an amendment to that effect should he so wish. We should not, however, forget that 13 young people with learner permits, 11 of whom were unaccompanied, have died on our roads while driving this year. That puts the matter into perspective. People with learner permits drive all the time but 11 of the 13 who died were unaccompanied.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

There is a serious anomaly in the programme for Government regarding the tenant purchase scheme for local authority houses.

People are told that they must have their water charges paid and a person who does not have their water charges paid cannot retrospectively pay them now - because it will not be accepted - and therefore changes have to be made. I address this to the Taoiseach and to the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's query is not really on promised legislation.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

It is. The water charges issue was in the programme for Government. It is a very serious point.

Through the tenant purchase scheme the Government is barring more than 80% of the people who live in local authority houses from purchasing those houses because of the statement that they have to be at work. In other words, they cannot be in receipt of an old age pension or a disability payment. That tenant purchase scheme is not fit for purpose and it has to be changed.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

If and when the Water Services Bill 2017 concludes in the Seanad this week, all liabilities under that Bill will be extinguished, as per one of the provisions in the Bill. The tenant purchase scheme is under review and we will, hopefully, conclude the review in the next couple of weeks and I hope to make an announcement on that in December.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

Four years ago the mobility allowance and the motorised transport grants closed. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath was to establish a new mobility scheme to assist those with a disability. The Minister of State has said that this new mobility scheme will be up and running this year, in 2017. Speaking in the Dáil recently, the Taoiseach confirmed there was no budget allocation for such a scheme this year. Many families are suffering and cars need to be adapted. People are confused about this. Perhaps the Taoiseach will indicate when we can expect the health (transport support) Bill to come through the House.

The Taoiseach

The new scheme requires primary legislation and it is anticipated that the primary legislation will be put before the House next year.

An Ceann Comhairle

Two Deputies remain and time has run out. I will call Deputy Pearse Doherty, to be quick.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Will the Taoiseach confirm that the State has collected the €13 billion, plus interest, from Apple and that it is now lodged within an escrow account?

The Taoiseach

Not to my knowledge. Perhaps a parliamentary question to the Minister for Finance would be more appropriate.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

As the Taoiseach is aware, on Sunday Michel Barnier, suggested that the EU and EU states need to start preparing for the collapse of the Brexit talks. Since we have come in to the Chamber, the BBC is reporting that the talks may not be returning and that they are indeed collapsing.

Deputy Andrew Doyle

This is not about promised legislation.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

Yes it is about legislation. The Government promised, quite some time ago, that there would be detailed sector-by-sector plans ready for such an eventuality. When the Taoiseach assumed office I asked him if the plans were ready and he said they were not. He also had no date for when they would be published. In response to a parliamentary question in May, the Taoiseach confirmed the plans were being progressed but did not know when they would be ready. In light of the potential imminent collapse of the Brexit talks and the risks we know this poses to this country, when will we see the detailed sector-by-sector Brexit-related reports we have been promised for so long?

The Taoiseach

That is not promised legislation but I am sure the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade would be happy to answer in the form of a parliamentary question.