On my behalf and on that of my party, I wish to express solidarity with and offer our sympathies to the people of Canada after the appalling attack yesterday evening. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those killed and with the injured and their families as well. It is a terrible thing.
Leaders' Questions
Go raibh maith agat.
Last week, I asked the Taoiseach for his views on the behaviour of the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, in revealing to a lobbyist his decision in respect of a proposed media acquisition by Independent News & Media, INM, in advance of his actual decision and before telling anybody else. I asked the Taoiseach if he found this unacceptable, if he thought it was appropriate behaviour, whether it was correct of the Minister to do that and whether it was normal practice. The Taoiseach dodged the question and added the view that the Minister did not give any confidential information to the lobbyist concerned. In fact, he blamed the lobbyist for hyping the matter and over-egging the description of this information as confidential. We now know that it was confidential because the Minister confirmed this. We know from the record that, three weeks after he made the call to the lobbyist, the Minister replied to questions from two Deputies on the issue by saying, "I have not made my views known and I am not going to." Of course, he had already made his views known to the lobbyist in question, who told his superiors in Heneghan PR, who told the chairman of INM, who then told the largest shareholder.
No other shareholder was told. Celtic Media, the subject matter of the acquisition, was not told and the Dáil was not told. In fact, the Dáil was misled and the Minister should apologise to the House for giving misleading information and correct the record because clearly the two do not tally.
Does the Taoiseach still hold the view that the Minister did not give confidential information to the lobbyist? Most objective observers found somewhat farcical the Minister's statement to the Dáil last week and the idea that he expressed a purely personal view that this would be the likely course of action he would follow. Deputy Howlin summed it up last week when he said a Minister performing a statutory duty is always a Minister and one cannot separate out what is personal, particularly in the context of a statutory decision. Surely the Taoiseach accepts that basic principle.
The Minister's officials must have warned him in advance on this issue given their experience with the Moriarty tribunal and the awarding of the State's second mobile phone licence to Esat Digifone. We know that experience traumatised officials in the Department considerably and obviously left a mark in the Department.
It is clear to me and most people that the Minister made a serious error of judgment and his defence to date in respect of that serious error has been very poor. Does the Taoiseach accept that the Minister made a basic error of judgment and that what he did was wrong? Does he accept that the Dáil was misled, perhaps not intentionally, and the Minister needs to apologise and correct the record? Does he accept that the information the Minister gave to the lobbyist was confidential and not shared with anyone until the decision was ultimately publicly announced? Have queries been made as to how the lobbyist got information regarding the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission's decision prior to the Minister getting it and was able to tell the Minister and then seek his response?
I will start by joining the Leader of the Opposition in expressing my condolences to Canada and the Canadian people on what was an appalling attack in Toronto yesterday. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade has been in touch with the Canadian authorities to pass on the regrets of the Government. I would like to use this opportunity to express solidarity with the Canadian people and our revulsion, as a State, at what happened in Canada yesterday.
I am conscious in speaking about this matter that it is before the courts and relates to an affidavit that none of us has seen. We have been warned by Mr. Justice Peter Kelly that the matter is sub judice and we all need to have regard to that warning and be careful what we say in the House on a matter that is before the courts. It is also important to state that the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, did not do any favours for anyone. He did not do any favours for INM or Denis O'Brien. In fact, his action was to delay the proposed merger between INM and Celtic Media by referring it to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. I presume that is not what INM would have wanted. Presumably, it would have preferred if the Minister had not deferred the merger and referred it to the BAI.
With regard to the telephone call with the lobbyist, Mr. Ó Neachtain, which I believe was brief, the Minister indicated he would follow the law and be guided by official advice, which is what any Minister would do. I am not sure if that constitutes confidential information but in my mind it does not because that is what Ministers will do, namely, follow the law and be guided by official advice. The Minister cannot be held personally responsible for what other people do with that information. It may be the case that somebody gave that information to some shareholders and not others but that was down the line and it is not fair to expect any individual to be responsible for what third, fourth or fifth parties may do with information that was imparted to them.
It was secret information.
The Minister has stated that he regrets taking the telephone call and regards it as a political mistake on his behalf and has apologised for it today. He accepts it was a political mistake which he regrets and for which he has apologised today.
I find the Taoiseach's response somewhat incredible. I did not ask if the Minister did any favours to anybody. What he did, by the way, was keep one party informed and nobody else. Contrary to what the Taoiseach said, he did not speak about advice. The Minister said last week: "I expressed a purely personal view that the likely course of action would be a referral to a phase 2 assessment."
He told them the decision he was going to take. He told nobody else. He did not tell Dáil Deputies, who asked the same question in here three weeks later. He told nobody else. When one gives that commercially sensitive information to one party, one is actually responsible for what happens with it down the line-----
Of course, one is.
-----because one should not give it in the first place. By giving it, one knows there are consequences in giving it, in particular in giving it to a lobbyist for a key party to the deal. Of course, that information was going to be used. He was keeping that party on side, no question. In terms of the ultimate decision, he took that decision but he gave confidential information.
I find it difficult that the Taoiseach finds it difficult to find the words to say this was a wrong thing to do. All he has to do, at the very minimum, is admit that what he did was wrong. One cannot have a personal position. He did not state he gave advice or that he told him that he would take advice. He said, "I expressed a ... personal view" that the "likely course of action" was that it would be referred, not that it may be referred. Can the Taoiseach not differentiate between right and wrong? It is as simple as that, in terms of a decision like this. It is fundamental in terms of the approach of the Minister and the Government to all these basic issues. Does the Taoiseach accept it was confidential, by definition? He told the Dáil he had told nobody and he was going to tell nobody. However, he actually did.
With respect, the Deputy is selectively quoting the response of the Minister, Deputy Naughten, which is not the right approach to take. When he took this unsolicited phone call, the matter was not before him. It was the lobbyist who informed him that the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission had made its decision and the matter was not before him. By the time it arose in the Dáil, it was at a different point in time and a different point in the process and the matter was before him. He had no official advice or information to pass on. He has made that clear in his statement already. However, he accepts that it was a mistake and he has said he regrets ever taking the phone call. He has apologised for that today. The Minister has accounted for this, said he regrets it, said it was a mistake and apologised for it.