Before we go into the questions, I point out that six and a half minutes are allocated to each question, with 30 seconds to put the question, two minutes for the Minister's reply, a minute for the Deputy to put a supplementary, a minute for the Minister to reply, a final response from the Deputy, and a final response from the Minister. I am sticking to this rigidly, because, day after day, we find that four, five or six people sit here waiting for their questions to be answered and, because we break the time regulations, they lose out and that is not fair. When the Minister's two minutes are done, I will say that it is on the record. It is the same for the Deputy when the minute is up. I will say that we have to move on.
Priority Questions
LEADER Programmes Funding
Éamon Ó Cuív
Ceist:1. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Rural and Community Development the discussions he has had with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to ensure there is no reduction in the overall funding for the Leader programme post 2020 in view of the recent announcement by the European agriculture Commissioner that the rural development funding under the Common Agricultural Policy is likely to be cut by 15% for the 2021-2028 programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25932/18]
I hope, when it comes to the reply, that the Minister skips the usual bumf that is put in the beginning and cuts to the meat speedily. I have a quick question. The Minister knows that the framework of the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, has been announced and that Pillar 2, from which the money for rural development outside the farm gate comes from, is proposed to be cut radically. Has the Minister started early negotiations with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to ensure that this does not have a huge knock-on impact on the Leader programme? It is well down already-----
I thank the Deputy.
-----but if it took the kind of hit that is proposed here, it would be hardly worth having.
We are ten seconds over already. The Minister has two minutes.
The European Commission has proposed, as part of the multi-annual financial framework, MFF, for 2021 to 2027, that approximately €78.8 billion would be allocated for rural development funding over the next seven-year period. I understand that this equates to approximately €1.85 billion for Ireland and represents a reduction in the region of 15% on the current funding period. It should be noted that the proposal published by the European Commission is the initial MFF proposal. The final outcome will be determined by negotiations at EU level over the coming year. Achieving Ireland's priorities in these negotiations will be a key issue for the Government.
The matter has been discussed by the Government and work is well under way to achieve a satisfactory outcome from negotiations. I, together with my Government colleagues, will carefully monitor progress in these negotiations at EU level over the coming months. A decision regarding the level of funding required for the various elements of Ireland's rural development programme, including Leader, can only be made following the conclusion of the overall MFF negotiations. I assure the Deputy that I will continue to strongly defend the Leader budget as the MFF negotiation progresses.
I thank the Minister for his co-operation.
I thank the Minister for his reply but the situation is simpler than he has outlined. While obviously the Government will try to get as much money as it can from Brussels, if it decreases, the Minister can increase the national contribution. He could say today, if he had the assurances of his two ministerial colleagues, that no matter what happens, we will revert to the €400 million that was in the Leader programme and that we will make up whatever shortfall from Brussels that arises. I hoped to hear today that no matter what happens in Brussels, the Government is committed to a hugely increased Leader programme the next time. The Minister might clarify whether he has had those discussions and let the Minister for Finance and for Public Expenditure and Reform deal with how much of a rebate he gets from Brussels but have the Government commitment to go back to the €400 million minimum for Leader.
We have had negotiations at Cabinet about the CAP. The Deputy knows that is important, particularly for rural people, rural life, farmers and agriculture. On the Leader aspect, the negotiations are ongoing. We cannot show our hand yet. We have to wait and see what the negotiations will finalise. As the Deputy knows, Commissioner Hogan indicated that if the rest of the European Union increased its contribution by 10%, we would be able to increase Leader funding.
As such, we have to wait and see what the final negotiations are. At Cabinet level, I will ensure we maintain the funding for Leader, but we have to wait and see what happens. This must also go to the European Parliament where our MEPs will have a contribution to make. This has a long way to go yet.
I cannot understand the mentality of putting extra money into Brussels to get a percentage of it back when it would be much simpler for the Government to put it straight into the Leader programme and not lose a lot of money in transmission while having a whole lot of rules added to it in its transmission back here. I seek a commitment that Leader will revert to the €400 million plus level between 2007 and 2013. The current Leader programme is significantly underfunded, not because of the European cut, albeit there was one, but because of the cut in the Exchequer contribution. Every year, inflation eats into this. Over a 21-year period from 2007, there will be a 40% decrease in the value of money at 2% per annum.
The Deputy is correct in that we want Leader funding and I want to see it maintained. He knows, however, having been around a long time himself, that if one goes to a fair, one does not put one's best bid forward first. The Government, in particular the Taoiseach, will negotiate on CAP. They will be long negotiations and we cannot show our hand until we see what the proposals are. There is a proposal on the table, but it is only that and there is a long way to go. The proposal will have to go to the Government and the European Parliament and a lot of discussion on it will take place in the next number of months. This has to be finalised by May 2019 and we will not put our hand up and say what we are going to do at national level. We have to wait and see what is agreed on the proposal put forward by Commissioner Hogan. There is a great deal of negotiating to be done between now and then and I will monitor it. I will be watching this in relation to the Leader programme and working with my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, who will be fighting to ensure that CAP funding is maintained for Ireland given the serious potential effects for farmers in rural Ireland.
Community Banking
Martin Kenny
Ceist:2. Deputy Martin Kenny asked the Minister for Rural and Community Development if he has received the report from the Department of Finance on the proposals for a model of local public banking for Ireland based on the Sparkasse model (details supplied); when the report will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25905/18]
Many parts of rural and regional Ireland are crying out for a public banking service. It is a model we are seeking to have rolled out as quickly as possible. Has the Minister received the report on this from the Department of Finance and when will it be made public? For almost six months, we have been told it will be published within a couple of weeks. We need to get it done quickly and we need to put plans in place to move this forward. We are always told that a problem with the banking sector is the lack of competition. Here we have a bank that wants to enter the field and we should do everything possible to encourage that and bring it forward.
I thank the Deputy for the question. Officials from my Department and the Department of Finance have been working closely together since last year to investigate the feasibility of a new model of community banking for Ireland, including through the German Sparkasse model for the development of local public banks. The project team carried out detailed research into the concept with a particular focus on the Sparkasse model. As part of its investigation, the project team also met with a number of stakeholders, including the organisation referred to by the Deputy. The organisation in question submitted a proposal to officials of both Departments for a possible model of local public banking in Ireland and this proposal has been analysed in detail.
My Department has also conducted a wider public consultation to seek views on the concept of a community banking model. The invitation to submit responses was open to all and was extended in particular to main stakeholders and Members of the Oireachtas. The consultation ran for four weeks and 16 submissions were received. The submissions have been assessed, and the views of the respondents have been taken into consideration and will be reflected in the forthcoming report. The report has now been completed and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, and I submitted it to Government for consideration in recent weeks. I anticipate that the report will be published shortly.
While that is welcome news, we have been hearing for a long time about imminent publication. As such, the Minister will understand the frustration that is out there. A large section of the public, in particular in rural Ireland, has seen bank services withdrawn. I have spoken to the Minister about this on numerous occasions as high street banks have closed down all over the country. Not only are banks closing down, small businesses and farmers are finding it more difficult to access loans at appropriate rates. That is the reality for many people, in particular in rural areas. The public banking model is about regionalised banks which focus on the region in which they are situated to provide keen interest rates and look after the people. It is not driven by profit and making maximum profits for shareholders. It is a model which resonates strongly with the public due to the negative experience they have had with the financial sector in Ireland.
I appeal to the Minister to get the report published. We have heard for some time the phrase "in a few weeks". Reading through newspaper articles, I see we have been told the report would be published within a number of weeks on several occasions, including last January, last April and, again, today. We need to get this report published as quickly as possible.
The Minister for Finance and I have agreed the report and we want to get it published as quickly as possible. The Deputy is correct about the financial sector. I am not afraid to say it and have done so on many occasions in the House. We do not have functioning banks for small businesses. We have banks but they are not functioning. As a sitting Deputy, my constituents are coming to me and pointing out that, notwithstanding the fact that they have good collateral, they cannot get loans from banks. That is the experience with the two major banks. I would like competition in the market. We will get the report published as quickly as possible. We are engaged in consultations with other stakeholders and agencies at the moment. We want to publish the report and I guarantee that it will be published shortly.
The fear people have is that the other stakeholders are, in the main, the big banks. One of the problems we have in this country is the influence of the main financial services providers. They are a major influence in stopping anybody else from coming into the market. People are fearful that the Department of Finance is somehow or other being influenced by those who are on the field and who want to ensure that no one else gets onto it. I trust that the Minister is doing the right thing and I hope we will see a result soon. I hope that not only will the report published but that a pilot using this model will be rolled out, first of all in the midlands before being extended to eight regions around the country. That has to happen before the end of the year. That is how urgent this is. In particular with Brexit coming at them, businesses cannot continue to survive if they are dependent on the mainstream banks which are not functioning for them, as the Minister has acknowledged. Let us put this in place. Let us give a commitment that the Government will ensure that this model is in place before the end of 2018.
The report will be published and Members can discuss it when that happens. People in this country have suffered because of the behaviour of the banks and we must be careful about what banking institutions we put in now. People talk about the banks every day here. I read only last week in the newspapers about difficulties in some of the financial institutions. The taxpayers of this country have suffered enough. The ordinary citizens have suffered because of the main banks and what they did to the country and its economy. When the report is published, we can discuss it further.
Community Services Programme Funding
Éamon Ó Cuív
Ceist:3. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Rural and Community Development the amount available for the community services programme in 2018; if he has provided extra funding to the participating companies to cover the increases in recent years in the minimum wage; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25933/18]
The community services programme is important. The way it always worked was that the minimum wage was paid to each company, along with the employers' PRSI, for all participants, plus a grant for the manager. In certain cases, there was supplementary funding. That continued to be the way until 2014. Since then, however, the system has changed and companies must now come up with funding themselves to supplement the grant provided to pay the minimum wage. Will this continue?
The community services programme, CSP, supports 400 community organisations to provide local services through a social enterprise model. Funding is provided as a contribution to the cost of a manager and an agreed number of full-time equivalent positions. More than €46 million is available to support community organisations under the programme for 2018.
The CSP contribution is not aligned to the national minimum wage. It is a fixed annual contribution that is required to be co-funded by the organisations concerned from other sources, for example, from income received from the public use of their facilities and services. Having said that, a CSP support fund was established in 2016 to help organisations to secure their sustainability and assist them in meeting their obligations regarding wages. The fund provided additional funding to select organisations on a reducing scale over the three-year period from 2016 to 2018. My Department will commence a review of the CSP later in the year. The review will consider, among other things, how the programme fits with overall Government priorities as well as my Department's other community programmes and policy objectives. Decisions on the structure of funding supports for CSP-funded organisations will be taken upon completion of the review.
The Minister confirmed in a previous written reply that up until 2015 the minimum wage was covered 100%. A company with five full-time equivalent staff now has to find €10,000 simply to pay wages, not to mention meeting all the other overhead costs faced. As the Minister is aware, some of these companies provide meals-on-wheels services or run community centres where there is no major revenue stream. Yet, they keep these places open all day or provide fundamental community services where there are limited income sources. Is it the Minister's intention to return to the situation that obtained up to 2015, when the full wage was covered for the full-time equivalent staff who were approved under the community services grant?
This is an important programme. I like this programme and it is working well. Deputy Ó Cuív knows that what we give is a grant. We are not the employers. For me or the Department to commit to what Deputy Ó Cuív is asking for would cost €3 million. We are supporting 1,670 full-time jobs and we have 300 managers. That amounts to almost 2,000 people. A sum of €3 million is a great deal of money. At present, we have new organisations that want to come in on the programme. Some of the older organisations are being reviewed. I would have to find €3 million.
I will give one commitment to Deputy Ó Cuív. We are undertaking a review of the programme. No review of the programme has been done for a long time. However, I will have to find extra money if I am to meet and support his request.
We provided €600,000 to support groups that were finding it difficult to meet their costs, especially with regard to the minimum wage. Over 150 applications were received. We provided grant aid to and supported more than 100 of these. We are aware of the problem and we are providing support. However, to cover the cost of the minimum wage would cost me and the Department €3 million. If I were to provide €3 million, I would have to start looking at the 1,670 people on the scheme and the 300 managers. I would have to find that money some way. The only way I can find it is either by getting extra funding or reducing some of the schemes in place.
Funnily enough, even during the downturn every Minister responsible could find the money. We paid more than the minimum wage because we retained the wages of the people employed under the programme at the level they had been. That was fine until the current Taoiseach became Minister for Social Protection. Then, hey presto, in 2015 - suddenly and for the first time since the scheme started - the grant did not cover the minimum wage. The Minister says €3 million is a great deal of money. It is a great deal of money to the Department.
Yes.
However, it was a mean cut in the Department of Social Protection. The then Minister cut €3 million from the programme out of €20 billion. In fact, when he cut it initially, it was €1.5 million. Will the Minister go back to the Taoiseach, ask for his money back and undo the mean cut that the Taoiseach introduced in 2015?
Deputy Ó Cuív knows that I inherited this scheme on 1 January. A total of €46.2 million came with the scheme. I increased the allocation by €850,000 to bring in 12 new organisations. It was the first call since 2008. There had been no call for new schemes since 2008. Deputy Ó Cuív knows that the period between 2013 and 2015 was difficult for both the economy and the country in general. I inherited this scheme and I have increased the funding for it this year.
I will go back to Government and seek further funding. I am going to have this scheme reviewed. I am going to see what I can do in respect of the minimum wage. However, I am keen to make clear and to put on the record of the Dáil that we are not the employers. We support the schemes. Deputy Ó Cuív is correct. These schemes cover a social aspect that neither Government nor State agencies cover. Without these schemes, we would have a major difficulty so I want to support them. When the review takes place, that is one of the things I will be examining.
Local Improvement Scheme Funding
Michael Collins
Ceist:4. Deputy Michael Collins asked the Minister for Rural and Community Development his plans to allocate extra funding to the local involvement and community involvement schemes in 2018. [26019/18]
During the past 12 months or more the Minister has allocated funding for the local improvement scheme. I commend him greatly on that because the scheme had been stalled for several years, much to the detriment of rural communities. It is back now and it is really popular. Most local authorities will say that the funding given by the Minister is great but that they want triple or quadruple what they are getting. Does the Minister have extra funds for the scheme this year?
I understand the Deputy is referring to plans to allocate extra funding to the local improvement scheme, LIS, in 2018. The LIS is a scheme for carrying out improvement works on private and non-public roads. The type of roads covered under the scheme are not under the normal maintenance of the county councils. However, they provide vital links for people living in rural areas and need to be maintained to enable people living in rural Ireland to access their homes, farm land or amenities.
For many years, there was no dedicated funding for the LIS due to the constraints on the public finances. However, I allocated €10 million in funding for the LIS in September 2017. The scheme is administered by the county councils. The councils prioritise the roads to be repaired and carry out the works. Based on demand for the scheme and the capacity of local authorities to complete further works before the end of last year, I allocated an additional €7.4 million for LIS roads in November 2017. Building on the success of last year's scheme, I approved €10.8 million to county councils for LIS roads in February of this year. In total, over 1,100 LIS roads will have benefited from the investment of €28 million made by my Department since last September. As part of the 2018 LIS scheme, I requested each county council to compile a secondary list of suitable LIS road projects which they could complete if additional funding becomes available for the scheme later this year. I will be monitoring the situation in the context of my Department's overall expenditure performance over the coming months.
I thank the Minister. I am in not here to criticise him in any way for what he is doing because he could do no better than he has done to date. It is simply a matter of encouraging a deeper look to determine whether there could be an extra allocation of funding at the end of this year. In south west Cork I know of €2 million or €3 million worth of projects seeking funding. Those involved cannot get it because they have an allocation and they are trying to work through that allocation. That allocation was not in place two or three years ago although it was desperately needed at the time. Yet, it is in place now. The money is welcome but I appeal to the Minister to concentrate and take a closer look. It could help areas like Castletownbere, the road out to Mizen Head and back into Skibbereen, as well as Bantry and such places. Projects in these areas are seeking funding allocations.
I would appreciate if the Minister would consider giving extra investment for it this year.
To be fair to Deputy Michael Collins, he did acknowledge that there was no scheme for many years and that it is up and running now. A total of €17.5 million was spent on the scheme last year. There was no dedicated LIS scheme in recent years. Councils receive money from rates and other contributions. I agree with Deputy Michael Collins that there are many roads in rural areas that we need to address. I would like to see local authorities and perhaps the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport putting funding into the scheme. There are many roads with problems because we did not have a scheme for many years and if everybody put a bit into the pot we would get more roads done. A total of 1,100 roads have been completed in 12 months and if we could get a bit of extra funding from the local authorities and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport perhaps we could get more roads done. Perhaps elected representatives could speak to county councillors to suggest that councils should put some money out of their own resources into the LIS. The Acting Chairman, Deputy Eugene Murphy, is a rural Deputy himself and he is aware that people make a contribution to the scheme in addition to paying their taxes and water charges. The State also makes a contribution. I would like to see local authorities making a contribution but instead some local authorities charge us for the work and we could get more roads done if they did not charge us for their staff time.
I will definitely take that on board. I will speak to my brother, Councillor Danny Collins, to see if he could push Cork County Council to come on board and co-fund these projects going forward. Between the LIS and the community services scheme it is a fabulous opportunity for communities to make progress. I accept that, unfortunately, they will have to contribute a little but that is fine given the long-term benefit. I plead with the Minister to consider allocating more funds to the scheme going forward as we are only barely reaching what needs to be done. I commend the Minister on dealing with 1,100 roads to date but thousands of roads have not been addressed. I look forward to the Minister having a chance to announce further funding for the scheme before the year is out.
The Minister will hardly announce the new funding today.
I am looking at my Department's finances at the moment. I like the scheme, I want to support it and there is a need for it. A very serious problem has arisen in recent years given that no scheme was in place. There is a big build-up of roads that need to be addressed. We will continue with the current funding allocation and if I can find further funding between now and the end of the year I will make it available. I have asked the local authorities to get a LIS project ready if we have funding. I also asked them to prioritise the funding they have been allocated. Some of them did very well with the funding they were allocated but others did not do so well. The weather has been fairly good in recent months and local authorities are carrying out work on the roads. I would like to see them deal with LIS roads. I put on record that I will put in a condition that any local authority that does not spend its allocation by the deadline will not get additional funding if it becomes available in September. We set a deadline of July and the local authorities asked if it could be extended until August, which we allowed. Deputy Michael Collins might come back to criticise me on the basis that Cork got no money.
That is quite clear from the Minister.