An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business – Dáil Éireann (32nd Dáil) – Tuesday, 27 Nov 2018

Deputy Róisín Shortall

Today's business shall be No. 18, instruction to committee re African Development (Bank and Fund) Bill 2018; No. 19, instruction to committee re Central Bank (National Claims Information Database) Bill 2018; and No. 39, Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. Private Members' Business shall be Second Stage of No. 58, Microgeneration Support Scheme Bill 2017 selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday’s business shall be expressions of sympathy on the death of former members, Seán Ardagh and Seán Calleary; No. 19a, motion re Supplementary Estimates, leave to introduce; No. 19b, motion re Supplementary Estimates, referral to committee; and No. 39, Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018 - Report and Final Stages (resumed). Private Members' Business shall be Second Stage of No. 1, Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission (Gender Pay Gap Information) Bill 2017 [Seanad] selected by the Labour Party.

Thursday’s business shall be No. 20, motion re Horse and Greyhound Fund, back from committee; No. 40, Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2018 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 39, resumed.

I refer Members to the second revised report of the Business Committee, dated 26 November. In relation to today's business, it is proposed that:

(1) the Dáil shall sit later than 10 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Private Members’ Business. The proceedings on No. 58 shall commence not later than 9 p.m. and shall conclude within two hours. In the event a division is in progress at 9 p.m., the Bill shall be taken on its conclusion;

(2) the Leaders' Question under Standing Order 29 for Solidarity-PBP shall not be taken on Tuesday but shall instead be taken on Wednesday in the Independents 4 Change slot, and the Independents 4 Change question shall be taken on Tuesday in the Solidarity-PBP slot, with no further effect on the rota; and

(3) Nos. 18 and 19 shall be brought to a conclusion after 32 minutes each, if not previously concluded. Speeches shall be confined to a single round for a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokesperson for each party and group, or a member nominated in their stead, of four minutes each per item, and any division demanded shall be taken immediately.

In relation to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that:

(1) the Dáil shall sit later than 10.15 p.m. and adjourn not later than 11.30 p.m.

(2) the expressions of sympathy shall be taken after Leaders' Questions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes each and shall be followed by Questions on Promised Legislation. Contributions shall not exceed two minutes each;

(3) No. 19a shall be taken without debate and any division demanded shall be taken immediately. Subject to the agreement of No. 19a, No. 19b shall be taken without debate and any division demanded shall be taken immediately; and

(4) No. 1 shall conclude within two hours.

In relation to Thursday’s business, it is proposed that:

(1) the Dáil shall sit later than 7.48 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Topical Issues;

(2) No. 20 shall be taken without debate;

(3) Topical Issues shall be taken not later than 9 p.m. or on conclusion of Government business, whichever is the earlier. In the event a division is in progress at 9 p.m., Topical Issues shall be taken on its conclusion; and

(4) notwithstanding Standing Order 140(2), neither a Private Members’ Bill nor a committee report shall be taken.

An Ceann Comhairle

Three matters remain to be decided. First, is the proposal for today's business agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

I know the Business Committee will not have had an opportunity to consider this but given the publication of the auditor's report on the national broadband plan and the procurement process just before the commencement of Leaders' Questions, there is a necessity for the Dáil to consider this report. The report is so important that there is a need to debate and analyse it. In view of the level of controversy generated some time ago - leading to the resignation of a Minister - and the number of people who are dependent on the roll-out of the national broadband plan, I ask that the Business Committee meet to discuss whether any opportunity could be found this week to facilitate a debate on the Smyth report.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I support the call for the Business Committee to be asked by the House to make time available this week to discuss the report, which is quite detailed. The report's implications are far-reaching, particularly for areas of my constituency and right across the rural communities of the west. It is appropriate that we would have sufficient time this week to debate the report.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I support the request for a full debate and I ask that the Business Committee structure it in such a way as to allow for questions at the end. I have not had an opportunity to read the report, although it has been spun for the past week. It is important we have a chance to not only read it but take advice on it, so I would not be averse to tabling a significant debate next week rather than this week if that suits Members.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I add my voice to the calls for a debate. I do not think we can move to the post-evaluation phase without having a debate on this report. I have only given it a cursory glance but there certainly appear to be quite a few contradictions in it. We have to be satisfied that those contradictions are at least addressed before we move to consider what will eventually go to Cabinet in regard to the evaluation of the tender process.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I agree that there should be a debate on the report. I ask the Business Committee not to schedule the debate so that it will interfere with the time already allocated to the Bill dealing with abortion and the outcome of the referendum on the eighth amendment. We are pushing to the wire to get that legislation passed by January and it is very important we do not cut across the time allocated in respect of it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would not take it upon myself to answer on behalf of the Business Committee - I will call the Chief Whip shortly - but there was considerable difficulty last week at the meeting in making time available within the schedule for the volume of work that is envisaged. I will most definitely call a meeting of the Business Committee but, before we have it, I suggest that the only likely time available this week would be on Friday if Members would like to come in.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is helpful. Looking at the diary, I can understand why the Ceann Comhairle would say that. We would certainly be willing to facilitate that and to attend and be active for a Friday morning sitting.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Seán Kyne)

As the Ceann Comhairle said, we are sitting late tonight, late tomorrow night and late on Thursday night, and there are two Bills, the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill and the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill, to be dealt with. Report Stage of the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill has to conclude on Thursday and the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill will take up pretty much all other allocated time. If we are to do as Deputy Bríd Smith has outlined and not interfere with the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill, we will have to look at either a Friday sitting or taking the debate next week.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I have suggested next week inasmuch as we need time to take advice on the matter. I have no difficulty with a Friday sitting but there will be many Members who will not be here on Friday. I would prefer to have a full House and Ministers available to answer questions as part of a normal sitting, rather than treating this as if it were not normal business.

An Ceann Comhairle

Can the Minister inspire us on this matter?

Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment (Deputy Richard Bruton)

I am happy to facilitate the Business Committee in whatever way it decides to order the business. I assure the House of that.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will convene a meeting of the committee later this afternoon and make the necessary arrangements and hopefully get all-party agreement as to what we will do. That being the case, is the proposal for today's business agreed to? Agreed? Is Wednesday's business agreed to? Agreed. Is Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Micheál Martin

In the context of children, the programme for Government refers to "an opportunity to change our approach from expensive reactive interventions to proactive supports and long term planning starting from birth". This commitment must be a long way from being realised in light of the report in today's edition of The Irish Times by Kitty Holland about the long queue of families, most of them mothers with babies and toddlers, endeavouring to access the Capuchin Day Centre in order to obtain help with the very basic necessities of life. The photograph that accompanies the article tells 1,000 very depressing stories. Over 600 mothers are registered with the Capuchin Day Centre to get free infant formula and nappies. They travel from the city centre and from homeless centres in Drogheda and Dundalk. Many are accommodated in their parents' homes and so on. These people are not included in the statistics relating to homelessness but they are living in very stressful circumstances nonetheless. In line with comments made earlier, there is an urgent requirement to focus on the needs of homeless children and to reduce the necessity for the Capuchin Day Centre to have to continue to intervene at the level and scale at which it is intervening in order to prevent poverty and destitution. The State should be investing more.

The Taoiseach

We all acknowledge the enormous charitable work of the Capuchin Day Centre and how it assists people. The Government assists people as well. As stated earlier, there a been a significant increase in the number of people at work and this has helped to reduce poverty in general and also child poverty. We have increased welfare payments. Further increases targeted at people on low incomes and with children are due in March. There will be an increase in the qualified allowance for children, improvements in family income supplement and improvements for lone parents. People who cannot get by, even with their welfare payments, have the option of going to community welfare officers to seek exceptional needs payments or urgent needs payments. Those supports are available directly from the Government but I appreciate that people may, for their own reasons, not wish to avail of those supports and go to voluntary organisations instead, many of which - including food banks - are funded by the Government.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Not the Capuchin Day Centre. The amount it gets is pitiful.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

It is mindboggling that the Taoiseach just ignores what is happening on the streets of our city. The real casualties in the fiasco of the national broadband plan are the 500,000 households that have been left without high-speed broadband. It is six years since this plan was announced and we do not even have a commencement date - never mind a completion date - for it. Initially, it was to be completed by 2020. That will not be the case. The entire process is chaotic if not farcical. The Taoiseach mentioned that there are two evaluations taking place and that these will determine whether the bid can proceed. Can the Taoiseach outline to those who want this broadband delivered as quickly as possible - whether they be households, businesses or communities - when it is likely to be delivered to them? If the bid cannot proceed, what is plan B? Does the Government have a plan B?

Deputy Richard Bruton

This has been a very complex and ambitious programme. We are seeking to provide high-speed broadband to every premises in the country bar none. It will be 100% coverage and that involves over 500,000 premises. This has not been done by many other countries and it is an ambitious programme. I agree that the process has been complex. There was a competitive dialogue whereby anyone could come forward with whatever technology. We are now in the final stage of that. A final tender was submitted in September. That has to be carefully evaluated, apart from the subject matter we are intending to discuss later in the week. It has to be evaluated from the points of view of governance and value for money, all of the elements of which the Deputy would want to be assured. We are in the final stage of that process, which must come to a conclusion before we consider other options. It is important that we provide the time and opportunity for this bid to be properly assessed. That is what I intend to do and before coming back to the Government with an assessment. That is where matters stand.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

What is the schedule?

Deputy Richard Bruton

Until a decision is taken, there cannot be a schedule of investment.

It is impossible to set out a schedule of investment until one decides whether one is going with the tender.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Tackling homelessness and dealing with the housing crisis is the stated priority of the Government and the House. A raft of legislation has been promised to deal with these issues, but where is it? The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government promised to ensure the Bill to deal with short-term lettings would be enacted before Christmas. We have yet to see the publication of the Bill on the national regeneration and development agency. Where is the legislation promised to deal with the issue that is our social imperative?

Please let the Minister answer.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

Deputy Michael Collins

In response to questions I asked in the House in 2017, and in March of this year, during my engagement on Leaders' Questions with the Taoiseach's stand-in, the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, I was told the Department of Education and Skills had given a green light on 2 December 2017 to four mainstream classrooms and two resource teaching rooms for St. Brogan's college, a secondary school in Bandon, and that in the interim temporary classrooms would be approved immediately.

Were the people of Bandon and its surrounds misled? Not a shovel has been turned or a temporary classroom put in place in this project thus leaving a similar crisis for parents and staff in St. Brogan's college this year, where dozens of children will not be accommodated. The people of Bandon and its surrounds want an honest answer today. When will St. Brogan's college see the temporary classrooms put in place and why has no progress been made on the four mainstream classrooms and two resource teaching rooms as was promised to the people in 2017?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a parliamentary question.

The Taoiseach

I will ask the Minister for Education and Skills to provide an answer to the Deputy in writing.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

In May 2017, the Minister for Health asked for a month in order to resolve the issues of public concern about the ownership and ethos of the proposed new national maternity hospital. The Minister was trying to square the circle of the proposals in the Mulvey report and how to provide for the type of hospital that would be publicly owned with a non-religious ethos. Some 18 months have passed since that date and no progress has been made. Can the Taoiseach tell us where things stand on the proposed new national maternity hospital and can he give an undertaking that any proposed agreement on ownership of that hospital will be brought before the House before being signed off by the Government?

The Taoiseach

The Government is committed to the national maternity hospital relocation project which involves the development of a new maternity hospital on the campus of St. Vincent's University Hospital at Elm Park. The new hospital will be funded by public money and is included in Project Ireland 2040. The development will represent a flagship project as part of the national maternity strategy and will constitute the largest single investment ever made in maternity services in Ireland.

It is vitally important that the legal and governance arrangements associated with this significant State investment are robust. A draft legal framework is currently being finalised and that will ensure that the State investment in the new hospital will be protected and that the new maternity hospital will be clinically and operationally independent of St. Vincent's University Hospital. Once finalised, the proposals will be submitted for consideration to the Government, the national maternity hospital and St. Vincent's Healthcare Group. The Minister for Health wants to assure the House that patient care in the new hospital will be delivered without religious, ethnic or other distinction and that any medical procedure that is legal in this State will be carried out there.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Taoiseach's Government and the last Government set up Irish Water to provide a better service but many people are being let down in one aspect of the new set-up. When trying to resolve bills, people have to go through the number 1850 178178, punch in their account number and punch in their water point reference number, WPRN, but they can never get through to the same person twice. It is like talking to someone on the moon and if they get cut off, they never get back to the same person. To compound this, people are being phoned up, are being told to pay their bills and are being threatened with legal action. I spoke to an elderly man yesterday who is 87 years of age. He was told by a girl who he could barely understand that if he did not pay his bill he would be taken to court-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to cut the Deputy off because his time is up.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

He said to me that he never owed a shilling to any person in his life and that he paid his bills all of the way. He is being billed €1,300 for water, which he did not-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Do not cut him; off he will never get back again.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

-----owe. He cannot resolve the problem. I ask the Taoiseach to ensure there is a human face on Irish Water in local authorities or somewhere where someone can go in and discuss the issue in order to sort out their bills but that service is not available.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is taking up other Deputies' time.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

There is no human face to Irish Water in any county where people can go in and sort out their bills.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Brassil on the same matter.

Deputy John Brassil

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

I will.

Deputy John Brady

There is a commitment under the programme for Government to deliver new schools. On that basis, I raise the crisis facing North Wicklow Educate Together school, whose pupils will be homeless come 30 April next year. That is an immediate crisis facing that school and this Government, but that school also faces a long-term crisis. A dubious decision taken from by ex-chief executive officer of Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board, KWETB, and the Department to colocate two educational facilities on a site on Novara Road in Bray was overturned by the board of the KWETB this morning and it has asked for a review of that entire process. Therefore, the school faces the immediate crisis of 180 pupils being homeless come 30 April next year and 60 of those pupils will sit their junior certificate next year. What will the Taoiseach do to ensure temporary accommodation is immediately provided for this school and that long-term accommodation will be provided for it?

The Taoiseach

There is no legislation promised on this matter but I will ask the Minister for Educate and Skills to provide-----

Deputy John Brady

There is a commitment in the programme for Government.

The Taoiseach

It is not mentioned in the programme for Government either but I will ask the Minister to provide the Deputy with a written answer.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

Approximately 5,000 farmers have not received their first payment under the single farm payment scheme for 2018. This has been an extremely difficult year for farmers’ incomes, with falling prices and weather conditions. I ask that extra resources be put in place to ensure that those 5,000 farmers will be paid before the Christmas recess.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for his question.

I have no information on contracts and no involvement in the matter. If the Minister for Health does, I will ask him to provide a reply to the Deputy. Contractual matters are generally not dealt with at ministerial level.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 27 Nov 2018

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 Nov 2018