Speaking Arrangements: Motion

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I move:

That, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speaking arrangements recommended in the Appendices to the Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform titled 'Speaking time arrangements on the first round of Second Stage of a Bill, and on fixed-time debates', dated 29th July, 2020, be adopted and shall have effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee no later than 22nd December, 2020.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is an amendment to be considered. Is amendment No. 1 being pressed? Who wants to address amendment No. 1? Insofar as pressing it, the amendment has already been discussed. Is Deputy Mac Lochlainn pressing the amendment?

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

I am. I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the following compromise speaking arrangements for Second Stage of a Bill as put forward by Sinn Féin at the meeting of the Business Committee on 30th July, 2020, suggesting:

Government 20 minutes,

Sinn Féin 20 minutes,

all other Groups 10 minutes each,

Government 20 minutes,

Sinn Féin 15 minutes,

all other Groups 10 minutes each, and

Government 5 minutes,

be adopted and shall have effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform no later than 22nd December, 2020."

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 105; Staon, 3.

Tá

Andrews, Chris.
Brady, John.
Browne, Martin.
Buckley, Pat.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Conway-Walsh, Rose.
Cronin, Réada.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Daly, Pa.
Doherty, Pearse.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Fitzmaurice, Michael.
Funchion, Kathleen.
Guirke, Johnny.
Harkin, Marian.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McDonald, Mary Lou.
Mitchell, Denise.
Munster, Imelda.
Mythen, Johnny.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Broin, Eoin.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Ryan, Patricia.
Stanley, Brian.
Tully, Pauline.
Ward, Mark.
Wynne, Violet-Anne.

Níl

Berry, Cathal.
Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Colm.
Burke, Peter.
Butler, Mary.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Jackie.
Cairns, Holly.
Calleary, Dara.
Cannon, Ciarán.
Carey, Joe.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Collins, Michael.
Collins, Niall.
Costello, Patrick.
Coveney, Simon.
Cowen, Barry.
Crowe, Cathal.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Donnelly, Stephen.
Donohoe, Paschal.
Duffy, Francis Noel.
Durkan, Bernard J.
English, Damien.
Farrell, Alan.
Feighan, Frankie.
Fitzpatrick, Peter.
Flaherty, Joe.
Flanagan, Charles.
Fleming, Sean.
Foley, Norma.
Gannon, Gary.
Grealish, Noel.
Griffin, Brendan.
Harris, Simon.
Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Danny.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Hourigan, Neasa.
Howlin, Brendan.
Humphreys, Heather.
Kehoe, Paul.
Kelly, Alan.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Leddin, Brian.
Lowry, Michael.
MacSharry, Marc.
Madigan, Josepha.
Martin, Catherine.
Matthews, Steven.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McConalogue, Charlie.
McEntee, Helen.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.
McHugh, Joe.
McNamara, Michael.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Murphy, Catherine.
Murphy, Eoghan.
Murphy, Verona.
Nash, Ged.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Nolan, Carol.
Noonan, Malcolm.
O'Brien, Darragh.
O'Brien, Joe.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Callaghan, Jim.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Dowd, Fergus.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
Pringle, Thomas.
Rabbitte, Anne.
Richmond, Neale.
Ring, Michael.
Ryan, Eamon.
Shanahan, Matt.
Sherlock, Sean.
Shortall, Róisín.
Smith, Brendan.
Smith, Duncan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Smyth, Ossian.
Stanton, David.
Troy, Robert.
Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Barry, Mick.
Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Murphy, Paul.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Denise Mitchell and Pádraig Mac Lochlainn; Níl, Deputies Brendan Griffin and Jack Chambers.

Amendment declared lost.

An Ceann Comhairle

Amendment No. 2 is in the name of the Regional Group. How stands the amendment? Sorry, it is in the name of the Independent Group. Mea maxima culpa.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I am pressing the amendment.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

On a point of order-----

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the Deputy's point of order?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

We have an amendment that sought to resolve this situation-----

An Ceann Comhairle

No, that is not-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----and we are not allowed to discuss it at all.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is a compromise which exposes the dishonesty of the argument that has been put by the other side-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please. Deputy Boyd Barrett-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----and which actually sought to resolve this situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Boyd Barrett, please resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The people deserve to know the dishonesty perpetrated here.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Seriously, the people deserve to know-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I was not here for the earlier debate, but I know it was extensive. Members have made their points. Please resume your seat. The debate has been had already. Resume your seat, please.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The substance of the-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

They do not know what is going on.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The amendment cannot be discussed-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Last evening, the penultimate meeting of this session, we saw an extraordinary level of collegiality whereby people agreed. The public will make up their own minds about what they see transpiring here this evening and how they see people behaving. Please. We have procedures. Will you resume your seat?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceann Comhairle-----

An Ceann Comhairle

No, please. Resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

They do not know what went on-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Will you resume your seat?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

You know that-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, you are asked to resume your seat. Please respect the Chair.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I respect the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have always respected you. Please extend to the Chair the respect of resuming your seat. We do not need any help from that side.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I respect you.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us forget about all that. Resume your seat, Sir.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

We have business to do.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is after 11.30 p.m. It is not a great or wise time to be making decisions. Please do not make me suspend the House.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

This is unbelievable.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please do not make a farce of our Dáil. Resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

We are back to where we were-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, do not make a farce of our Dáil. Resume your seat. We are involved in a process whether we like it or not. The process, which is a democratic process whether we like it or not, must proceed. Resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

A process without debate is not a democratic process.

An Ceann Comhairle

You are completely out of order and I will suspend the House if you insist on continuing to disrupt.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is not democratic.

An Ceann Comhairle

I appeal to you again, please, resume your seat.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I cannot stand by while democracy is sabotaged. That is what is happening-----

An Ceann Comhairle

This is histrionics now at this stage.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is not-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat. It is pure histrionics. You have made your substantive point. The public has heard the point you have had to make.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I doubt the public knows-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, resume your seat. Please, do not continue.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

If this goes on any longer I will suspend. Please, resume your seat.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

The House is suspended for five minutes.

Sitting suspended at 11.32 p.m. and resumed at 11.40 p.m.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I move amendment No. 2:

To delete all words after “That” and substitute the following:

“notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speaking arrangements recommended in the Appendices to the Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform titled ‘Speaking time arrangements on the first round of Second Stage of a Bill, and on fixed-time debates’, dated 29th July, 2020, be amended by the substitution of the tables contained in the Schedule to this amendment with effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform no later than 22nd December, 2020.

SCHEDULE

Second Stage Debate

Gov	SF	Lab	SD	Sol/PBP	Reg	RIG	IND	Gov	SF
20	20	15	15	15	15	15	15	20	20
Gov	SF	Gov	Lab	Gov	SD	Gov	Sol/PBP	Etc...
20	20	20	5	20	5	20	5

100 minute Debate

Gov	SF	Lab	SD	Sol/PBP	Reg	RIG	IND	Gov	SF
15	10	5	5	5	5	5	5	10	6
Gov	SF	Gov	SF
10	6	7	6

135 minute Debate

Gov	SF	Lab	SD	Sol/PBP	Reg	RIG	IND	Gov	SF
20	15	6.5	6.5	6.5	8.5	6.5	6.5	15	5
Gov	SF	Gov	SF
15	5	13.5	4.5

200 Minute Debate

Gov	SF	Lab	SD	Sol/PBP	Reg	RIG	IND	Gov	SF
30	22.5	10	10	10	12.5	10	10	25	10
Gov	SF	Gov	SF
20	5	20	5

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 61; Níl, 75; Staon, 0.

Tá

Andrews, Chris.
Barry, Mick.
Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Brady, John.
Browne, Martin.
Buckley, Pat.
Cairns, Holly.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Collins, Michael.
Connolly, Catherine.
Conway-Walsh, Rose.
Cronin, Réada.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Daly, Pa.
Doherty, Pearse.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Funchion, Kathleen.
Gannon, Gary.
Guirke, Johnny.
Harkin, Marian.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Howlin, Brendan.
Kelly, Alan.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McDonald, Mary Lou.
McGrath, Mattie.
Mitchell, Denise.
Munster, Imelda.
Murphy, Catherine.
Murphy, Paul.
Mythen, Johnny.
Nash, Ged.
Nolan, Carol.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Broin, Eoin.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Pringle, Thomas.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Ryan, Patricia.
Sherlock, Sean.
Shortall, Róisín.
Smith, Bríd.
Smith, Duncan.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Tully, Pauline.
Ward, Mark.
Whitmore, Jennifer.
Wynne, Violet-Anne.

Níl

Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Colm.
Butler, Mary.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Jackie.
Calleary, Dara.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Collins, Niall.
Costello, Patrick.
Cowen, Barry.
Crowe, Cathal.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Donnelly, Stephen.
Donohoe, Paschal.
Duffy, Francis Noel.
Durkan, Bernard J.
Feighan, Frankie.
Fitzpatrick, Peter.
Flaherty, Joe.
Flanagan, Charles.
Fleming, Sean.
Foley, Norma.
Grealish, Noel.
Griffin, Brendan.
Harris, Simon.
Haughey, Seán.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Hourigan, Neasa.
Humphreys, Heather.
Kehoe, Paul.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Leddin, Brian.
Lowry, Michael.
MacSharry, Marc.
Madigan, Josepha.
Martin, Catherine.
Matthews, Steven.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McEntee, Helen.
McGrath, Michael.
McHugh, Joe.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Murphy, Eoghan.
Murphy, Verona.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Noonan, Malcolm.
O'Brien, Darragh.
O'Brien, Joe.
O'Callaghan, Jim.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Dowd, Fergus.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
Richmond, Neale.
Ring, Michael.
Ryan, Eamon.
Shanahan, Matt.
Smith, Brendan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Smyth, Ossian.
Stanton, David.
Troy, Robert.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Catherine Murphy and Thomas Pringle; Níl, Deputies Brendan Griffin and Jack Chambers.

Amendment declared lost.

Deputies

Shame.

Motion agreed to.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Thursday, 30 Jul 2020