Extension of Part 3 of the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020: Motion (Resumed)

The following motion was moved by the Minister for Health on Tuesday, 2 November 2021:

That Dáil Éireann resolves that the amendments effected by Part 3 of the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020 (No. 1 of 2020) shall continue in operation for the period beginning on the 10th day of November, 2021 and ending on the 9th day of February, 2022."

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To insert the following after "9th day of February, 2022":

"and any new regulations introduced under this legislation shall be brought before the Dáil for prior approval."

- (Deputy Róisín Shortall).

Deputy Patricia Ryan

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I commend front-line workers who kept the country on its feet throughout the pandemic. Sinn Féin supports the waiving of Nursing and Midwifery Board of Ireland, NMBI, registration fees this year, as we did last year, as a way of showing gratitude for the Trojan work of nurses and midwives during the pandemic. Healthcare workers deserve more than a clap on the back and they certainly deserve more than a once-off bank holiday, as currently reported. Our native Kildare saint, St. Brigid, or the goddess Brigid, as some see her, certainly deserves more than a once-off bank holiday.

I have written to the Minister to ask that the NMBI registration fee be waived this year for the tens of thousands of nurses and midwives who have sacrificed so much in the past two years. It would be a small but important gesture to demonstrate that the political system stands with them and the Government understands the needs of healthcare workers. Sinn Féin will continue to advocate in the interests of these workers.

The substantive motion relates to the extension of measures arising from the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020, the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Covid-19) Act 2020, the Criminal Justice (Enforcement Powers) (Covid-19) Act 2020 and the Health (Amendment) Act 2020. We cannot just roll over these measures without a plan or direction to help our healthcare system to cope better with the immense pressure it is under. It is far too risky an approach and the Government has taken enough risks with people's lives. We have a Government that is kite-flying and the Minister knows it is a recipe for disaster.

Winter is coming and we have been promised a fantastic plan imminently to deal with waiting lists. I hope it will be more successful than the plan put forward by a former Taoiseach, Mr. Enda Kenny, 14 years ago when he promised to end the scandal of long waiting lists and patients on trolleys. We all know how that went. I have reason to be pessimistic, as all we have to do is look at the mess Sláintecare is in.

A constituent of mine was due to have an operation a few weeks ago but it was cancelled at the last minute. The man has been on a waiting list for seven years. The reason for cancellation was that the consultant would not be there on the day but I suspect the consultant got a better offer at a private hospital. The operation was rescheduled for this week and the constituent had to call at 6 a.m. to see if a bed was available but the hospital did not know at the time and he was told to call back at 8 a.m. On calling back at 8 a.m. he was told somebody would call him back and he received a call at 9.40 a.m. to say there was no bed. This was after two weeks of reducing medication and living with the resultant pain and inflammation. What kind of way is that to treat people? The Minister should be absolutely ashamed of himself.

Will he consider our older people as much of the language used around nursing homes is wrong?

When families are spoken to, words such as "dangerous", "damaging", "harmful", "allowed", "permitted", "limited", "booking system" and "restricted" are used. This language reflects the attitudes and culture in our nursing homes. Both need to change drastically to reflect the person-centred care that is referred to in the glossy brochures. We must remember these are homes. They are not prisons or warehouses where our old people go to die. They live in them, and life is for living. We must look after them. The mental health of our older people must be considered. It is equally as important as physical health. Families are willing to take precautions but we must meet them halfway.

The virus is in a new phase. Personal responsibility plays a major part. The new reality is we will live with this virus. Rules must recognise and reflect that we are supposed to be moving out of the emergency period. Almost 90% of the eligible population - those aged over 12 years - are fully vaccinated. We need measures that reflect our current situation and where we are going.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I will be sharing time with Deputy Mick Barry. I will make several different points concerning Covid, but particularly on the repressive powers the Minister proposes to extend now. We oppose those repressive powers and their extension. It is striking to compare the approach taken by the Government in extending significant restrictions on civil liberties to its approach concerning protections and supports for ordinary people. The Government has already cut the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, by €50. There is another cut coming down the line to the PUP on 16 November. The bans on evictions and rent increases have already been removed and we still do not have a mandatory employer sick pay scheme nearly two years into this pandemic. This gives an indication of the Government's priorities and its approach in keeping these repressive powers.

There is a contrast between the reopening of indoor nightclubs and the maintaining and extension of powers to ban and criminalise outdoor protests, when we know the risk of transmission in an outside environment is minimal compared with the dangers of transmission in indoor environments. The priority of the Government and its approach towards civil liberties is clear. This extension of restrictions on civil liberties in the context of the Government discussing the need to live with Covid during a time of high daily case numbers which are increasing poses the question whether the Government will ever repeal these repressive powers and if they are likely to become permanent. All the repressive powers in this State, such as the Special Criminal Court for example, were introduced in response to particular emergencies. The same occurred internationally with legislation introduced following 9/11 in the US, such as the Patriot Act, and 7/7 in Britain. Does the Government plan to introduce further restrictive regulations in the near future due to its failure to deal with the current wave of Covid?

There is a broader point to be made here concerning the approach of the Government of relying, on the one hand, on repressive powers and, on the other, as was interestingly referred to by a Deputy on the other side of the House, to lean and sway in the direction of the latest demands from business lobbying organisations and to concede, regardless of public health demands, at any given point. We must understand it is clear, as acknowledged by experts in advance, that while vaccines are crucial in the fight against Covid, and everyone should be encouraged to be vaccinated, they are not a silver bullet. To protect Christmas, to ensure we will not be in the situation of having a so-called meaningful Christmas again, and to prevent future lockdowns, we need a vaccine-plus strategy. We need vaccination, ventilation and vastly increased numbers of tests compared with the number currently being conducted.

For more than a year, People Before Profit has been pushing for a proper focus on and investment in ventilation in our schools, offices and hospitality settings. Transmission is taking place in those indoor settings, but the Government repeatedly refuses to take action on this. Instead, it has actually cut back on these services. It is still the situation today that there is no legislation on ventilation. It is a crazy situation, when this is a virus that is primarily carried in the air, that we do not have legislation on the right of workers to have clean air and not to work in environments that contain more than 900 parts per million of CO2 or, in circumstances where that is not possible, to have high efficiency particulate air, HEPA, filters to ensure Covid does not circulate.

This brings me to the crucial question of schools. We agree that schools must remain open, but the Government should not sell the lie that schools are safe and that they are not a place of transmission. That is patently not true. It should be stated clearly that it is vital for our society that schools remain open, but the supports must be put in place. We need HEPA filters in every classroom in the State, as is the case in parts of Australia. In Ireland, we do not have a single air purifier. We need to return to contact tracing and testing instead of continuing to turn a blind eye to what is happening. It is not possible to fight Covid on the cheap.

Deputy Mick Barry

Covid-19 will be with us forever; so said the Tánaiste last week. Does the Government, therefore, want the Covid emergency powers to be with us forever too? Serious civil liberties issues were involved in the introduction of these powers in the first place, and that was why I voiced my opposition in the first Dáil debate on them. Today, there are serious civil liberties issues in rolling the powers over every three months, as the Minister seems intent on doing. To take just one example, we were told the requirement of the Covid vaccination passport would stay in place until October. The Government clearly sees them being in place for the whole of the winter. Is it the intention to keep these arrangements in place on a semi-permanent basis? To be clear, I am a strong supporter of vaccination. I appeal to all who are unvaccinated to get vaccinated. However, there are clearly civil liberties issues in keeping such an arrangement in place indefinitely at a time when alternative strategies, for example, those that might involve antigen testing, are available. This is a debate we will clearly need to return to.

I will be voting against the extension of these powers. That said, if a crucial issue arises and there is a need for legislation on a case-by-case basis, I would have no problem voting in favour, for example, of extending the eviction ban and the rent freeze indefinitely. As for extending the powers as a whole, however, I will be voting against that.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The byword from this debate so far came from Deputy Paul Murphy when he said it is not possible to fight Covid on the cheap. Where was the Deputy for the past two years? This has not been done on the cheap. Measures were taken by the Government that were necessary to protect the health of the people. If the Government had not done that, it would have been grossly irresponsible. The measures introduced were done so in good faith and were required at the time to deal with an issue about which it was unknown how far it would extend. Other countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, have experienced total extended lockdowns of a far longer duration than any we have experienced here, and have had to reintroduce them repeatedly. This also occurred in several European countries. It is now proposed to extend the sunset clause to provide for measures that might have to be taken in the event of the virus going on a further run, and that is the correct decision. We should not avoid making that decision now or avoid the signs clear to all and sundry.

There has been a revival of the virus. The numbers are increasing. The trajectory is going in the wrong direction. In those circumstances, the consequences of doing nothing are far greater than any consequences that might arise from the extension of the sunset clauses. I therefore strongly support these proposals. I would have done so in the Joint Committee on Health in the event these motions had not been taken today.

The Minister and the Government have done the best that could be done in very challenging circumstances. There will be more challenging circumstances in the weeks and months ahead and throughout the winter. In addition to what has been done, every effort must be made to respond as quickly as possible to the situation as it emerges. We must not wait and allow the virus to get a grip and become established.

More than 90% of people have had their vaccinations. There are also a number of people who have previously had Covid. The theory is that the combination of these is sufficient to create sufficient resistance to the virus, as a result of which it should wane. That can and may still happen. The weeks ahead of us will be crucial. As the effects of extensive vaccination and the public health measures that can be taken under this proposal, which are the same as those available for the past six months or two years, continue to be seen, we can delay the virus to allow more natural resistance to develop. If that does not happen, other measures may have to be taken. However, we must recognise this virus will not just disappear. It is going to be here for a while so we are going to have to work with it and do whatever can be done to reduce its impact on our society and our freedoms. Nobody wants restrictions. Nobody wants to have anything other than a normal Christmas, but we know from last year, when everybody was fatigued and rightly and understandably wanted restrictions to be relaxed, that sadly it was not the time to relax them. We all took that risk together and we were wrong. The virus marched on. It surged on and has continued to this day. The lesson we must learn is the virus has the ability to surge again and again. Because of that, we have to attack it with every means available to us.

Other speakers have referred to air purification systems. I have spoken about these in the House on several occasions. Their use in indoor situations should be considered urgently. These devices are very effective. They are capable of eliminating 100% of the virus in any given situation where they are sufficient for the square footage of the indoor space concerned. They work very effectively. We may have to resort to using these systems as well. I suggest to the Minister that this be done sooner rather than later. The impact they are likely to have should be investigated in the early days rather than having to do it at a later stage when the situation is much more serious and damage has been done by overcrowding, which makes it very difficult for the hospital system to work. I fully appreciate the difficulties now arising and presenting. The winter plan is about to become available. There are challenges in that regard.

There is also another ongoing issue. Many people seem to forget about it. I have been a Member of this House for more than a couple of years and, during my time here, I have received advice from a great many people who told me we had too many hospitals, hospital beds, consultants and GPs. They said we had too much of everything. In actual fact, the reality is we did not have a sufficient number of any of these. A proper build-up to meet these requirements should have been considered years ago, but medical economists or other kinds of economists had other views and their views were taken on board to the extent we now have a deficiency of accommodation, nurses and consultants. We now have to try to address these issues in the middle of an emergency. That is a crazy situation and it should never have arisen.

There are lessons to be learned from this. On many occasions in recent times we have all referred to the demands having become greater. Why have the demands become greater? Because the population has become much greater. Some ask why our population is increasing and say it should not be. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle and I know well the population has become greater because fewer people have found it necessary to leave this country and go abroad. That is as it should be. We should be able to ensure our growing population's requirement for jobs is, and continues to be, accommodated at home. There is no acceptable excuse for not doing so.

I ask the Minister to bear in mind the urgency of the situation. This could be a bit like Custer's last stand. We again have time to deal with the thing. This is another opportunity. It is an airborne virus which is very active and very aggressive. It will not fizzle out overnight. We have to be in it for the long haul. That means we should now put in place whatever is necessary to defeat it at every level. We must increase the emphasis on repeat vaccinations and the use of air purification plant where and when necessary. Nursing homes are obvious places to locate such devices. They should be used to defeat the virus at an early date rather than allowing it to accelerate to the extent it becomes a major problem again. I fear that, if the virus does re-establish itself to the level it was at eight or ten months ago, we could unfortunately be in for a much more serious situation and may have to introduce much more serious restrictions. I make the point again that we should do whatever needs to be done now. We should go the whole hog and aggressively address the situation and the threat of the virus in every way possible not for just 24 hours or whatever but for as long as it takes. We should do whatever it takes to deal with it in a meaningful way. Then we can walk off and say we did our best and either won or lost. I believe we will win if we go that route. In the course of what we are doing, we have to convince everybody we are doing it for the good and the health of the country.

I forget who it was but somebody suggested we should close down everything. We should not. The country has to try to survive. However, we should have restrictions to the extent necessary to curtail the virus and force it out of the system. If we do not do that, we will be coming back to this situation again and again. I advise that we listen to the lessons of Australia, New Zealand and various jurisdictions all over the globe where appalling numbers of deaths have taken place. Such deaths have taken and are taking place here. They are also taking place on the adjoining island. These deaths will continue to take place unless really aggressive action is taken. I call for that to be done now rather than later.

Deputy Thomas Gould

As the Minister has already heard, last Thursday evening, Sport Ireland issued new guidelines stating young people and their coaches who are not vaccinated cannot participate in indoor sporting matches without vaccination. I spoke to a number of families but will refer to one family in particular. Their 17-year-old son has been training both on his own and with his teammates over the last two years, although mostly on his own. He went to a match in the parochial hall in Gurranabraher in Cork last Saturday, only to be refused entry. The young man was distraught, as were his family and his teammates, because he could not go inside. This came as a great blow to him, his parents and all his teammates.

This leaves coaches, the vast majority of whom are volunteers, in the very uncomfortable and unfair position whereby they have to turn away young people at the door because of guidelines issued at the last moment. These guidelines should have been issued at the start. Sport Ireland should have ensured they were in place.

Once again, those engaged in indoor sport feel they are an afterthought when it comes to the protocols and restrictions for the return to sport. Can something be done to meet Sport Ireland to discuss basketball and any other sports that have been affected and ensure that a solution is found so that young people can get back to playing and enjoying their games?

I have been told this week that Sciath na Scol in Cork which, for anyone who does not know, involves Gaelic games for children, has been postponed until the new year. I was in my club, St. Vincent's, last night where loads of kids were training outdoors. The same children were going into school today, but cannot play Gaelic games in their schools. It is an outdoor activity which we are telling people is the safest way to exercise. How does it make sense that every GAA club in the country is playing matches at the weekend but none of the schools can? Schools are organising challenge matches. Games are still going ahead, but the competitions are not. Who is making these decisions? If it is right for children to play in club matches, why can the same not happen in schools?

Last week Dr. Ronan Glynn advised parents to cut back on their children's after-school activities, something I found unbelievable. I am a person who has supported all of the public health advice and encouraged everyone to get vaccinated, sanitise their hands and keep the 2 m rule. I have been very supportive of making sure everyone stays safe. I am a coach and administrator. Approximately one in five children have not come back to our club after the pandemic. Different sporting organisations are trying to get children and young people back to sports because we know how vital it is for their mental health and social skills. The statements being released are contradictory to what the health advice is. Young people have been put through enough. My daughter is in a class of 33 children for five or six hours a day. She cannot go into a field and play Gaelic games with her school. This does not make sense. It is not fair and it needs to be sorted out.

On 17 May 2020, the then Taoiseach, and current Tánaiste, Deputy Leo Varadkar, said in the Chamber that we must try to find, isolate, test and care for every case and trace every contact. We are not trying to find contacts in schools. We are not even trying to contact trace children any more. This is a bad message to send out to children because it is confusing, out of touch with reality and chaotic.

This is not the first time the Government has sent out mixed messages. There is a kind of chaos around what people are being told. We need to give people clear guidance. Many families have elderly parents and grandparents. They may have vulnerable family members who might be scared because without knowing where Covid is how can they protect them? It is time to stop dithering and burying our heads in the sand, and make clear decisions to put ordinary people first.

Deputy Matt Shanahan

The extension of emergency health legislation is a serious matter and so too is our progression through the Covid pandemic, with all of its associated challenges. At present we know there are approximately 3,500 healthcare workers and professionals out of work, which in itself is putting a burden on our community and hospitals.

We know that 40% of those in hospital are doubly vaccinated, but I think that figure is higher. At the weekend, out of 18 Covid patients in University Hospital Waterford, 15 were doubly vaccinated. That points to what we all know is the case, namely, that vaccines are waning. The decision to offer boosters to healthcare workers is welcome, but it has been unduly delayed. I am sure the Minister follows the reports of the CDC. Weeks ago it recommended booster vaccines for healthcare workers and those who were vaccinated over six months ago. How long are we going to wait for NIAC to put this into place?

We still have record transmission rates in our schools, although we cannot say so definitively because we no longer have any testing regime in place. In a lot of cases, the symptoms are misunderstood by parents who have sent their children to school when they should have kept them at home. There is no HSA activity on site. Many classes have fewer than half of the students attending and many teachers are out due to being designated as Covid close contacts.

Something we have touched on many times is antigen testing. My sister in law is a school secretary in the UK. There has been antigen testing in the community there for almost eight months. At the start, children were brought into school halls for rapid testing before they were allowed into school. The UK has managed to keep all of its schools operational with very little fallout from Covid. Yet, we have had three reports on antigen testing and we are still not using it.

What about vaccine hesitancy in the community? A Covid certificate is needed to go into a nightclub, but not to visit somebody in a nursing home. There are still unvaccinated healthcare personnel in the community sector treating vulnerable and elderly patients. What supports are we providing to community nursing care? We are providing very little, as the Minister knows, because we withdrew them all on the basis that if there was an outbreak we would send in the HSA.

We have pressures in our hospital accident and emergency departments and ICUs, testing and vaccination and the deferral of other activity. Who will say we may have to have localised restrictions?

We need a public information campaign on pregnancy. As the Minister will be aware, over the weekend there was discussion about people undergoing fertility treatments who were being told not to get the vaccine.

The deferral of new healthcare appointments is an issue. I submitted a question to the Minister's Department on the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, for University Hospital Waterford. We put an extra €4 billion into the health budget this year, yet there has been no additional recruitment to the cardiac section in Waterford to expand cardiology hours. I ask the Minister to respond to the question as soon as he can.

In terms of the effects of lockdown, there has been a 30% increase in the number of patients attending hospital with cirrhosis of the liver. There are problems right across the community. We need to mitigate them.

Antiviral drugs have been available for some time, including one from Merck, Molnupiravir, which has meant a 50% reduction in Covid deaths in early introduction. We have made no efforts whatsoever to get into a buying group, as far as I know, even though other countries are doing so. We need mitigation measures and we need to be doing a lot more than we are currently doing.

Deputy Verona Murphy

I have had contact with many disgruntled constituents who are wondering why we did not open on 22 October as was planned. I share many of their concerns. There seems to be an attitude from the Government to try to extend its power with these restrictions under the guise of being precautionary, yet as soon as they are passed they are being used as a matter of course rather than as an emergency power.

I also have another major concern which needs to be met head-on. Why are Government Members and policies being designed to scapegoat those who decided, for whatever reason, that they did not want, or could not take, the vaccine? We have the highest vaccination rates in Europe. I would like to commend all of the hard-working staff in all of the vaccination centres who have been very confident in their roll out of the vaccine programme. The constant scapegoating of the unvaccinated does not stand up to scrutiny or evidence and is completely unwarranted.

Every time we see evidence of a failure in Government policy, the narrative shifts to find the latest random thing to blame it on. There has yet to be any evidence presented which shows that vaccine passports actually serve any purpose in preventing transmission. In fact, recent studies have shown that a vaccinated person is every bit as likely to transmit this virus as a non-vaccinated person. Therefore, why is the Government continuing to divide society on this basis? Some of the language used by Ministers-----

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 2 Nov 2021

Extension of Part 3 of the Health (Preservation and Protection and other Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020: Motion (Resumed)

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 2 Nov 2021