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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 1 Mar 2022

Vol. 1018 No. 7

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

The Business Committee's report has been circulated and can be taken as read. The question is if the proposed arrangements for this week's business are agreed to.

They are not agreed.

They are not agreed. I asked for a debate on the Amnesty International report which indicts Israel for crimes against humanity and that argues for targeted sanctions against Israeli officials guilty of crimes against humanity and perpetrating what it describes as an apartheid regime for systematic breaches of international law.

While the Government has granted that debate, it has put it on Wednesday night at 9 p.m. and has given very little time for it. That also suggests to me that while the Government is in favour of sanctions against certain warmongers and crimes against humanity, it is not in favour of supporting the recommendations from Amnesty in regard to crimes against humanity committed by Israel. Will the Government allow for a proper debate at a proper time on Thursday for this critical debate about the Amnesty report on Israel?

The Deputy is way over time. That matter got great debate at the Business Committee. I call Deputy Joan Collins.

Deputy Pringle raised at the Business Committee the issue of a debate on the National Maternity Hospital. We have recently seen media reports of deals being made and deals being brought to Cabinet. I ask that the National Maternity Hospital be debated in the Dáil Chamber.

I am calling for a full and comprehensive debate on the proposed Shannon LNG terminal in the Shannon estuary. We need to have a frank and honest debate here about the provision of energy. At present, we are importing coal from Russia and Europe is importing gas from Russia and we are then talking about sanctioning Russia. We need to have a frank and honest debate here about the provision of energy into the future. We need to be able to buy gas from other entities like the United States and places like that which might be inclined to sell it to us, and not leave the people stranded without electricity. They closed Bord na Móna and put nothing in its place. Shannon can provide an LNG terminal that would not cost the State one cent and it would be another option for us. Gas is much cleaner than coal, and the Taoiseach will have to admit that, yet he seems to be against it. He is making no attempt. He allowed his Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, the man tasked with providing energy for the country, to make a submission against this worthwhile project.

The time is up. I call Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn.

Additional time has rightly been added to the schedule today for those Deputies who want to contribute to the debate on the motion in regard to the invasion of Ukraine but there is also very serious concern in this House about the situation in Palestine. Both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have defined this as an apartheid state. It is a very damning report. There has been a reasonable request for additional speaking time and, today, a number of us emailed that time should be set aside on Thursday. The Government could facilitate this, not the debate tomorrow night which is 100 minutes. We are asking for another 35 minutes. I think that could be scheduled very reasonably on Thursday to facilitate the concerns of Deputies. I think it is only reasonable that it be facilitated.

I thank the Deputies for raising the issues. First, there was a genuine need and concern that we would extend the time for the debate on the shocking crisis in the Ukraine and the shocking attack by Russia on the Ukrainian people. I was here last week and people were saying that NATO and the European countries were the warmongers, and the United States. They certainly were not, Deputy Boyd Barrett, and I think those who made those statements-----

They are warmongers.

Some were saying that.

Those who made those statements in the House last week should withdraw them.

Has the Taoiseach forgotten about Afghanistan?

There is 210 minutes for tonight's debate. Then, tomorrow evening, provision has been made for 110 minutes for a debate on the Amnesty report in respect of Israel and Palestine - 110 minutes has been allocated for that.

We are asking for a bit longer.

I heard the Deputy. I just want to make the point that we are also a legislative assembly. It seems we have about two and a half days this week, maybe a bit longer. We need to have some time for Government legislation to get things done.

And then just guillotine it all on the last day.

We are a legislative assembly as well as a debating chamber and we have a fundamental obligation to pass legislation. I do not mind surrendering some time from Taoiseach's questions later on, if that is what the Deputies want to do, but we do not have a whole lot of time.

Half an hour on Thursday. It is simple.

If people go through the schedule for tomorrow, they will see that there are two sets of oral parliamentary questions, Leaders' Questions, Questions on Promised Legislation, the Institutional Burials Bill 2022, statements on the Final Report of the Joint Committee on Key Issues affecting the Traveller Community and the Topical Issue debate. Private Members' time, which incorporates time for the Opposition time - and that is fair enough - is much lengthier than in previous Dáileanna.

Half an hour extra on Thursday. That is not a lot.

No, I think the Deputy is being a bit disingenuous.

The Taoiseach is being disingenuous because he does not support sanctions against Israel.

I am asking where is the time for Government legislation if all we do is keep on having debates and statements every week. We can do that every week.

We are asking for half an hour on Thursday.

We can have statements on a variety of matters. Most people will accept, however, that the crisis in Ukraine demands our immediate attention and inputs from Members regarding what additional work they want the Government to do in respect of the humanitarian crisis and EU sanctions. That is wholly legitimate because it is an issue we are dealing with right now with our European partners.

So are crimes against humanity.

There is a meeting on Thursday of Justice and Home Affairs ministers and so on. That is not to undermine any other issue. I am just making the point.

On Deputy Danny Healy-Rae's point, the Topical Issue debate is available to him to raise the matter of Shannon LNG, if he so wishes. We work with Norway and the UK on gas supplies. We are very clear as a Government that gas is an essential transitional fuel to back up our efforts in renewables. That will continue. Luckily, with the Corrib field, we provide sufficient gas from our own resources.

We have not abolished Bord na Móna. I heard the Deputy say that. Is he oblivious to the extraordinary work that it is doing with regard to climate change in the context of wind and renewable energy and a range of other activities, providing employment and so forth?

We have just three minutes for a slot. We are running out of time.

I apologise.

I asked a question regarding the National Maternity Hospital.

I have no issue with a debate on the National Maternity Hospital. I am not sure if we can fit it in this week. The Deputy could raise this matter in the context of the Topical Issue debate. Submitting a Private Members' motion would also be an option. There are three Private Members' slots available to the Opposition.

There are three Private Members' slots-----

Two for the Opposition.

A Private Members' motion could be tabled.

I submitted the matter for discussion on the Topical Issue debate six times in the past two weeks but it has not been taken.

Can I suggest that a compromise on the debate on the Amnesty International report would be that the debate take place and be adjourned, and that we return to it in the future when time allows?

Yes. The Ceann Comhairle said that at the Business Committee meeting yesterday.

I did. That would be a suitable compromise. I do not see the need to divide the House on something of this nature.

Does that mean that they could come in if there was time on Thursday?

I cannot give that commitment. It is not my job to decide when time is available. If the debate is simply adjourned, we could come back to it. It would be open to Deputy Boyd Barrett and anyone else to request that it would come back onto the agenda.

Can I take it that the Order of Business for the week is agreed to?

No. It is not agreed. We need a full debate on this.

Will the Deputies claiming a division please rise?

Deputies Danny Healy-Rae and Mattie McGrath rose.

As fewer than ten Members have risen I declare the question carried. In accordance with Standing Order 82 the names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.

Question declared carried.

Can I ask for Members' co-operation? As we have 17 Members offering and only 20 minutes and 45 seconds remaining, could I ask Members to curtail their questions to 30 seconds and that answers be also curtailed to 30 seconds.

In 2014, the constitutional convention supported the insertion of the right to housing into the Constitution. This has not happened. We have had delay after delay. The issue has been discussed at length. The Oireachtas housing committee has considered legislation to this effect. Today, we have another delay mechanism. Why are we still waiting for this? Why will the Government not proceed with legislation to ensure this referendum happens as early as possible?

The programme for Government commits to holding a referendum on housing rights. The Government's housing plan, Housing for All - A New Housing Plan for Ireland, tasks the Housing Commission with bringing forward proposals for the wording of such a referendum. The commission has today announced details of its referendum subcommittee, which will examine the complex constitutional issues around housing rights and propose an appropriate wording to Government for a referendum on the issue.

I want to raise an issue of most urgency, that is, the need to enact this week in this House the Proceeds of Crime (Gross Human Rights Abuses) Bill 2020, which has been passed on Second Stage. It would expand our proceeds of crime legislation, which established the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, to capture the ill-gotten goods of oligarchs, officials and anybody else involved in human rights abuses. It is a signal that this House should give. I ask that the Taoiseach reflect on that and provide time so that all parties which supported the Bill on Second Stage could enact it this week.

I indicated to the Deputy previously when he first introduced the Bill in the House that I was well disposed towards the legislation.

This is the week for it.

I have not been over the detail in respect of what is transpiring. Is the Bill in committee?

I will revert to the Ministers to see how we can accelerate and progress it.

A revealing and noteworthy report marking eating disorder awareness week shows how the health system is failing people with eating disorders. Only 55% of the staff of three new teams promised for 2021 have been recruited and less than one third of available funding has been invested since 2016. According to a freedom of information request, there is no implementation plan for the recruitment and training of staff despite the HSE previously stating in a response to a parliamentary question from me that there was a plan in place. Many people have to go to the UK for treatment and are forced to spend thousands for private care. Those who cannot afford to travel or get private care do not get that care.

Eating disorders are incredibly serious as they are the psychiatric condition most associated with mortality. I have been raising this issue for more than a year now and despite continued assurance from the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and the Ministers of State at the Department of Health, there has been worryingly little progress. What will the Government do to address this?

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. This is eating disorder week. Last year, 504 people were referred to eating disorder teams. When the clinical programme was put in place in 2018, there was an assumption, judging by the correspondence and data the teams had, that approximately 60 people would be referred to eating disorder teams. That number was, in fact, 504, which was an increase of 120%.

I met yesterday with Dr. Michelle Clifford, who is the clinical director for eating disorders-----

Only 55% of the staff promised for 2021 have been recruited.

-----in the country. We had a good meeting. I also met representatives from Bodywhys. Last year, 44 new clinical staff were hired into eating disorder teams. There were originally three teams and they have now been populated. We had three new teams last year and we are populating them.

With respect to the Minister of State, only 55% of the staff promised for 2021 have been recruited.

It is slow but progress is being made. To have 44 new clinical people in the eating disorder teams all over the country is very welcome.

That is not an answer to the question.

The Tánaiste said on the RTÉ lunchtime news that Ireland should be more involved in European defence and boost its defence spending, etc. I will speak in this afternoon's debate to express my solidarity with the Ukrainian people and to condemn Putin's invasion of their country. However, the Tánaiste's comments have nothing to do with solidarity with the Ukrainian people. It is a cynical and opportunistic move to push an agenda by the Tánaiste, an agenda Fine Gael has held for quite some time, of aligning Irish foreign policy more closely with the EU and NATO, taking steps towards making the EU a military power and massively increasing the Irish State's expenditure on arms. Where does the Taoiseach stand on the Tánaiste's comments? Does he support the Tánaiste's agenda?

I note the Deputy's reference to the European Union as if it were some foreign entity. We are members of the European Union and are committed to its values. These are universal values of freedom of association, freedom of speech and freedom of media, and self-determination, sovereignty and territorial integrity. Europe's security architecture is an issue from which we cannot escape. The Deputy said last week that European and NATO leaders are warmongers. We now know that to be completely not the case. What the current crisis has exposed and what it means is that the world order as we knew it, in terms of a multilateral and rules-based order, has been turned upside down by Vladimir Putin and nobody else.

Except in Yemen and Palestine.

We should not be attacking anybody else in respect of what is happening in Ukraine. Some Opposition Deputies always try to dilute the culpability of Russia.

The Taoiseach only talks about some bad guys.

Next month will be the 20th anniversary of the Taoiseach's meeting with Ms Margaret Best and I in the Department of Health on the introduction by the State of a no-fault vaccine compensation scheme. Over the past two decades, while the Governments of the day have been committed to the introduction of such a scheme in the interests of public health and the individuals concerned, we have always been one report away from action. Ireland is one of the few countries in Europe where children and families have to go to court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the vaccine they were administered has had a severe adverse impact on them. When can we expect this long-promised commitment to be delivered?

There have been a number of reports, one of which was completed recently. It is not a simple issue but it is one on which we want to make progress. Clearly, the experience during the Covid-19 crisis, when it was a matter of all hands on deck, has slowed down progress on that issue. I will refer back to the Deputy in respect of the current situation.

The Taoiseach might know that Cahir Castle recently won a prestigious film award. We are expecting a visit from the royal family soon. The Office of Public Works, OPW, needs to upgrade the lighting system in the castle. The splendid colours of the Ukrainian flag are the same as the Tiobraid Árann colours. We would love to light Cahir Castle in those colours. Most OPW buildings can do that and the building we are in did so last night. I am asking the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, to upgrade the lighting system to show off our splendid castle in Cahir, where Ms Eleanor Morrissey and her team do a fabulous job. We are expecting a royal visit so an upgrade on the outdoor lighting would be timely-----

Let there be light.

-----in order to display the wonderful building to all who visit it.

I always endeavour to shine light.

The Taoiseach is in the dark a lot of the time too.

As a Cork man, I am particularly anxious to bring light to the Tipperary heartland.

Stop anois. Ná bí ag magadh.

This summer, as we travel to Thurles, we will be shedding a lot of light in the sporting arena. I will talk to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, about this matter. It is a beautiful castle and we should do everything we possibly can to enhance it.

Irish farmers face a dilemma as to whether to borrow money to pay the cost of fertiliser, which has more than doubled, and hope to pass that onto consumers at the end of the year or to produce less food, which will also result in a rise in consumer food prices at the end of the year. I have no doubt that Ireland will produce more than enough food to feed itself but I am less confident about Europe, particularly given the lack of supply from Ukraine, which is the bread basket of Europe.

To ward off a horrible scenario whereby Irish consumers cannot afford the cost of food in Ireland, like other European consumers, will the Government intervene by bulk buying fertiliser, subventing it or putting price caps in place? We need to intervene now.

I thank the Deputy, who raises a fair concern. It is something that I and my Department are monitoring very closely. We are having a special meeting of EU Agriculture Ministers this Wednesday and this issue will form part of those discussions in the context of the challenges relating to the unacceptable invasion of Ukraine and what it means for gas, energy, fertiliser and grain prices. I thank the Deputy for raising the issue.

I have had some calls from older people in Carlow who are no longer allowed to drive a school bus because they have turned 70. I have repeatedly asked why Irish citizens can serve as public representatives after the age of 70 in either of these Houses yet other people cannot drive a school bus at that age. It is policy that retirement age is currently 66 at Bus Éireann but part-time school bus drivers and drivers nominated by the private operators as school bus drivers may continue in this role subject to completing an annual medical examination up to the age of 70. The Department has told me this age limit has been examined and there are no plans to extend it. That is unfair. I ask that we look at this issue.

I commend the Deputy on her attention to the detail of almost all schemes under the aegis of the State. Was the Deputy speaking to the Minister for Education or the Minister for Transport?

The Minister for Transport.

I will revert to the Deputy. Given that, in the context of pensions and so on, we are talking about ending the mandatory retirement age, that matter merits review and consideration.

It does. I thank the Taoiseach.

As Russian tanks roll into the suburbs of Kyiv and as the Ukrainian President issues yet another desperate plea for solidarity, will the Irish Government support the fast-tracking of Ukrainian accession to the European Union?

I said last Thursday at the European Council meeting that I believe the European perspective is the most strategic available option for the EU in terms of the neighbourhood. I support Ukraine's application for EU membership. It is a process but we should be clear in our support for Ukraine's application for candidate status. I support it. As I said last week, we should also support the applications of North Macedonia, Albania and other western Balkan countries.

I wish to flag an issue that has arisen since we came out of the pandemic. Many elderly people's medical cards have expired. These are full medical cards but when those people go through the process of getting them reissued, they are being issued with GP visit cards only. Those people were eligible for full medical cards before the arrival of Covid-19 but now they have expired, the Department is putting savage stress and anxiety on these people because all they are getting now are GP visit cards. Why is that happening?

I do not know. Someone who was eligible before the pandemic on income grounds should be eligible after the pandemic.

I have a number of examples. I will go to the Department with them.

The Deputy can send the details to the Minister for Health.

The Taoiseach recently agreed with me about the desirability of establishing an elective-only hospital in the mid-west region, which I welcome. During the course of the consideration of that issue, careful consideration must also be given to the suitability of the site at St. John's Hospital, Limerick, which has the space, expertise and track record to make this an outstanding success. Does the Taoiseach agree that the provision of a State hospital, provided by the State on State lands, is infinitely preferable to what is being mooted by the HSE at present, which is some type of public private partnership with a controversial American outfit?

I am agreeable to the line the Deputy is taking. We should not complicate these issues. God knows that to get a health facility built takes an ordinate length of time, as we know from the various hospitals under construction, at planning or where there is a row before they even get off the ground. My view on elective hospitals is that where we have State land, we should get on with it.

The Government is planning a national day of commemoration to remember the 9,000 people who died from Covid. Dealgan House is the only nursing home in the country that was taken over by the HSE. The families of the residents there, or a representative of them, would like to be invited to any such event. On 25 January, I called in the Dáil for a commission of inquiry into the 23 deaths that occurred there. The Taoiseach acknowledged that this is a genuine issue and said the Department of Health is finding a way in which it can best respect and meet the needs and concerns of the families. Will he give an update on that, given there has since been no communication with the families?

First, in terms of the planning for the ceremony, the families of the bereaved, regardless of setting and whether from Covid-19 or not, will be represented at the ceremony, along with front-line workers from all sectors. It is difficult to specify a particular sector but all those who were bereaved will be represented in a proportional way at the ceremony. In terms of the wider issue, a comprehensive evaluation process will be put in place in respect of Covid overall.

Given that ongoing street violence is keeping residents in City Quay hostage most evenings and a 13-year-old was stabbed on Saturday night, there is an urgent need to increase resources in the south inner city in the same way the north inner city was resourced on the back of the Mulvey report. We need increased Garda resources and youth and community resources. The Talk about Youth project on Pearse Street, for example, has no dedicated youth space from which to work. Will the Taoiseach commit to resourcing the south inner city in the same way the north inner city has been resourced? After all, they are one community.

I am taking a broader look at the situation in terms of communities more generally because different communities are coming forward now with real issues around drug abuse, infiltration by drug gangs in certain areas and the undermining of social infrastructure and the quality of life of many families. We cannot just go on taking one community after another. There has to be a more broad-based national policy in respect of communities under threat.

I want to ask about dental services for people suffering with autism. The Minister of State who is responsible for this area is in the Chamber. Young people who live with autism have limited access to dental services and are subject to many sensory issues. This means the dentists who look after them need to be specifically and highly trained. In Dublin South-Central, there is one such dentist for the entire constituency, which results in parents having to access very painful treatments for their children privately, which costs a fortune. Is the Minister of State aware of the lack of specifically trained dentists for young people living with autism and will she address the issue?

There is a broader issue in respect of the ongoing negotiations between the Department of Health and the Irish Dental Association regarding the provision of dentists. A total of €10 million has been made available through the Estimates for allocation to dental services. Obviously, that would include, in particular, the provision of dental services for people with autism, which requires a specific response. There have been difficulties in terms of the discussion so far. The HSE and the Department are anxious to provide that allocation and have an interim resolution of this ongoing dispute, which is not to the advantage of people who want to access the service.

I support the points made by my colleague, Deputy Richmond, on the question of EU membership for the country now under attack by the Russians. Will Ireland use its position at UN Security Council level to bring to boot as soon as possible any perpetrators who threaten their neighbours with a nuclear war and to make sure their case is heard before the European court?

There are processes for applications to the European Union, which have been going on for quite a long time. In my view, there has been a lot of meddling and manipulation going on in the geopolitical world. We saw that, for instance, with vaccines. It is interesting that Russia was offering Sputnik to various countries in the western Balkans, notwithstanding that it had not vaccinated its own population to any significant degree. It was doing so for geopolitical reasons, namely, to court favour with certain countries. In my view, the application processes for some countries have gone too slowly. I instance North Macedonia and Albania, which have made huge progress. We met with representatives of those countries before Christmas and are meeting with other representatives from the western Balkans.

Thank you, Taoiseach. The time is up.

Likewise, given what is now happening in Ukraine, we need to accelerate its prospect as an EU candidate country.

What about our efforts at the UN?

I do not have time to answer.

I have raised several times in this House the situation of the hundreds of carers and their families who are awaiting life-changing home support services in County Wexford. More than 600 families are in that situation, with 227 awaiting further services. An internal review of these highly unsatisfactory waiting lists for the home care service in Wexford was conducted in November 2021. People in Wexford are very concerned about not knowing the overall context of that report. The south east community healthcare organisation, CHO, held a governance meeting in February to decide what resources were to be allocated to deal with this issue. In the interests of the families desperately awaiting these services, will the Taoiseach ensure the Minister for Health provides details of this resources allocation and that the HSE produces a copy of the report immediately?

I will talk to the Minister about that and revert to the Deputy.

In the face of Covid, many of the education and training boards, ETBs, delivering prison education services adapted to blended learning, including the use of an in-house television channel. The logical conclusion of this is that we should start to provide in-cell technology and computers for prisoners. That is exactly what has been done in Berwyn Prison in Wrexham. It promotes prisoner education, rehabilitation and reintegration and supports the mental health of prisoners, all of which are things the Government aims to do. Will it provide the budget to support provision of in-cell technology for prisoners?

There is a very comprehensive provision through the ETBs for in-prison education. I am a very strong supporter of the work of our education services in prisons across the length and breadth of the country, which does a lot to facilitate rehabilitation as well as career pathways for people once they leave prison. It is extremely important that we do that and we will do it in whatever way we can. In-person learning is still important, as is the proper use of technology in terms of additional outcomes.

That concludes Questions on Promised Legislation four seconds ahead of time. Look what Members can do when they put their minds to it.

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