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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 May 2022

Vol. 1022 No. 6

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Income Inequality

I thank Oxfam for the annual report it publishes in the run-up to Davos highlighting the obscene and growing wealth inequality in our world. This year's report is entitled Profiting from Pain and it shows how billionaires have, quite literally, profited from the pain of ordinary people. One thing the report highlights, which the Government does not like to talk about, is the fact that while energy bills are going through the roof for ordinary people, contributing to a massive cost-of-living crisis, the five largest energy companies have made $2,600 in profits every single second. That means that in the time it takes us to have this debate, those energy companies will make a profit of over €2 million. The Government refuses to tackle the profiteering of energy companies and refuses to introduce what both we and Oxfam have called for, which is a windfall tax on the super war profiteering of these energy companies. We call for price controls to stop the energy rip-off and the Government rushes to the defence of these poor, defenceless billionaires. That is why we need a left Government that fights for socialist policies and defends workers, not billionaires. The report reveals that the nine billionaires in Ireland increased their wealth by €16 billion in the last two years. That is absolutely obscene. While ordinary people were struggling to get by, people like Larry Goodman and Denis O'Brien were making a killing. The Irish oligarchs increased their wealth by 55% during Covid but there was not a single new tax on this vast wealth. What more evidence does the Government want that this economic system is rigged? It is rigged by the 1% for the 1%. We agree with Oxfam. We have been calling for a tax on the wealth of these billionaires for some time.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That is a fact that is revealed yet again, as it is year after year, in the Oxfam report. It is not just a left-wing slogan; it is a fact. While the cost of living is crucifying and impoverishing tens of millions of people across the world, the world's billionaires and multimillionaires are getting richer by the day. The two things are directly related. It is not just a global picture but, as Oxfam reveals, it is also the Irish domestic picture. There has been a 55% increase during the two years of the pandemic in the assets of Ireland's billionaires. That is absolutely extraordinary. It brings their wealth up to a total of €51 billion. Just nine individuals have had an increase in wealth of €15.5 billion in one year. Meanwhile, 691,000 people in Ireland are suffering from deprivation, and those figures are increasing as we speak. The profits of energy companies, food companies, pharmaceutical companies and so on - which the report refers to specifically - are rocketing while ordinary people are impoverished. Oxfam calls, as we have done, for modest tax increases on Ireland's billionaires and multimillionaires. Oxfam states that a 1.5% tax on millionaires who have wealth in excess of €4 million would generate €4 billion a year in extra wealth. Imagine what that would do for housing, poverty and deprivation. This Government refuses to even think about it.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this discussion on Oxfam's recent global report on inequality levels. The report draws attention to important issues around wealth and income inequality, cost-of-living pressures and how policy in advanced economies can respond to these global challenges. In particular, the report highlights the negative effect the Covid-19 pandemic has had on equality across the world. However, the range of supports the Government put in place in Ireland was extremely effective in stabilising people's incomes and protecting those most at risk.

The Deputies spoke about the energy companies making profits. In Ireland, the main company making a profit is the ESB, which reinvests its profits in Ireland's energy infrastructure. Dividends or profits from that source do not go into any private individual's pocket. The recent Central Statistics Office, CSO, survey on income and living conditions shows that without Covid-19 income supports, the at-risk-of-poverty rate would have been more than 8% higher than it was. Instead, this rate fell by about 1.5% during Covid, down to 11.6%. We all accept that figure is far too high but it would have been 20% without the Covid measures introduced by this Government.

The report also highlights the importance of progressive taxation measures in tackling income inequality. Ireland is a very strong performer in this regard. This discussion is about both global and domestic issues. The Revenue Commissioners estimate that in 2022, the top 1.6% of income earners will pay 28% of total income tax and universal social charge, USC, receipts.

Furthermore, over half of the total income tax and USC receipts will be paid by 8% of taxpayers in Ireland. Indeed, the redistributive power of our tax system has been repeatedly acknowledged by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, the OECD and the International Monetary Fund, IMF. I note that the Oxfam blog post on the report highlights the increase in wealth in this country in recent years and raises the issue of a wealth tax. Of course, there are already a number of wealth taxes in place in Ireland including capital acquisitions tax, capital gains tax and local property tax. These generate €2.8 billion per annum as it stands. I know that some people in this House object to a property tax. I would have thought parties on the left would generally support a local property tax but quite a few in this House oppose it. It is very important as it contributes a significant portion of that €2.8 billion. With regard to designing a new tax, Central Bank data show that the main driver of increases in wealth in recent quarters was the positive re-evaluation of housing assets. The value of people's houses has generally been increasing from where it was after the financial shock and this has increased the bank of wealth in Ireland. Houses are a key element in the increase in wealth in Ireland.

With regard to the cost-of-living pressures, we are all aware that inflation has peaked across all advanced economies. This is linked to the rebound in global demand, persistent supply disruptions and pandemic-related effects. The war in Ukraine is further exacerbating this situation. The Government is acutely aware of this and of its impact, especially on low-income families. That is where we have concentrated all of our resources and the €2 billion in increases the Government has dealt with since budget day, up to the most recent changes and the various increases to help people with fuel poverty. Without these, the situation in Ireland would have deteriorated far more dramatically. However, the causes of the current price pressures are not within the control of the Irish Government. The Government has to balance an appropriate response to the increased cost of living in Ireland with the unprecedented level of global economic uncertainty and macroeconomic risk. I am satisfied that the Government has been taking reasonable step-by-step measures on this issue. Nobody thinks the Government can eliminate inflation. All the Government can do - and it is taxpayers' money we are using - is to ameliorate the worst effects of this inflation, especially on those who feel it most.

The Minister of State has spoken about the redistributive power of our tax system. I am not sure whether he noticed the Oxfam wealth report, which shows that the billionaires have got 55% richer over the course of the last two years while 700,000 people are living in deprivation. It is not much of a redistributive power if the wealth continues to funnel upwards while inequality continues to accelerate. When you say that Ireland is the fifth richest country in the world when measured by GDP per capita, people think there is no way that could be when they see the housing crisis, the number of people homeless, the crises in health and education, all of the other crises all around us and the epidemic of low pay. The reason Ireland can be the fifth richest country in the world while having all of these social problems is because the wealth is controlled by the super wealthy. It is accumulated in their hands and the Government represents their interests. That is the answer. The solution is to go after that wealth through both taxation and nationalisation.

The rich in this country pay more tax because they have vastly more wealth. It is not because it is a particularly progressive system but because there is a massive inequality in the distribution of wealth and income. The two things are related. There is a completely bogus argument or spin from officials that this proves we have a progressive tax system. It does not prove that at all. What it proves is that the rich have vast accumulations of income and wealth. At the very minimum, we should start to gather this information. It is very telling that we do not have a register of wealth and assets that would allow us to work out how wealth, which has gone through the roof in recent years, is distributed. The figures on deprivation, which we do keep, show that the levels of deprivation, poverty, energy poverty and so on are rising but the companies' profits, the wealth of billionaires and the overall net wealth in the country are all going up. Somebody has the money and it is not the working people of this country.

I will highlight the fact that this is an international report in respect of Ireland's contribution to overseas development aid. To this end, we have increased the cash allocation of overseas development aid for the last eight consecutive years, with the contribution reaching over €1 billion for the first time ever this year. With regard to the global issues, we are making a contribution appropriate or relative to our size in the world economy.

There is a research paper available on the ESRI website which shows that the vast majority of wealth is in the form of non-financial assets, with the largest components of household wealth in Ireland deriving from residences and farmland. That is what the ESRI report has said. The Deputies just asked about that. It did not come from our officials here in Ireland. I am sure everybody will give equal respect to the comments of the OECD, which said that Ireland has the most progressive system of taxes and transfers of any OECD member. I want to put that on the record. These comments are not from Government or Department of Finance figures. I understand the issues the Deputies have raised. People on a gross income of approximately €15,000 pay tax at an effective rate of less than 1% whereas people on €100,000 pay at a rate of 38.1%. The effective tax rate for those earning €120,000 is well over 40%. That is progressive taxation. The higher your income, the higher the percentage of it you pay in tax. It is very important to say that. We have made strong efforts in respect of those areas. I accept that we can do more. I also accept that the Covid situation transformed world economies, that there was a transfer of wealth as a result of the pandemic and that the OECD says that Ireland has the most progressive and redistributive taxation system of any member of the OECD.

Energy Conservation

I welcome the opportunity to raise this matter. There was a debate on it in the immediate aftermath of the great surge in prices. I expected that there was going to be a set of proposals from the Government to help people to respond quickly to the challenges they faced. I will point towards a number of things that could be done immediately. I would like to see the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, take these up with his colleagues.

The first relates to the 1.5 million homes that will not be reached by the retrofitting programme in the next ten years. We should ensure that all of those houses, or as many of them as possible, get heat controls installed if they have inadequate attic insulation and if the cavity walls can be done. The 80% grant is welcome but we need a serious wave to confront this issue. We should extend the 80% grant to heat controls. The reality is that we could save up to 25% of the energy use in these homes. For these poorly insulated and poorly heated homes, this would represent 2 tonnes of carbon per home per year. That is an exceptional opportunity for us and we are not grabbing it with the determination I believe is warranted.

The second thing I will mention is that we have rolled out, at public expense, 750,000 smart meters and intend to have another 1 million installed by the end of this year. They are not being used to cut the cost of electricity for those who have them. That is simply not happening. There is an offer to homes but it is not being taken up. We need to move again with a sustained campaign to get that opportunity taken up. I reckon that could result in very significant savings. Even if only 10% of energy consumed, which is 4,500 kWh, was switched from fossil fuel-generated energy to renewable energy, the impact on our carbon footprint would be very significant. We would be switching from a kWh that costs 500 g of carbon to one that costs 0 g.

The third thing relates to electric vehicles, EVs. From the latest figures, we see that 20% of people are now buying electric cars. This figure has doubled in the last 12 months. That trend is going to continue but there is an obstacle standing in the way, which is the roll-out of public chargers. Despite three years of access to a €5,000 grant, the councils have not installed one EV charger in a public place.

They should be targeting areas, like those in all of our constituencies, where people do not have their own driveways. They should install chargers in the lamp poles and parking kerbs to allow those people to buy EVs. Even if that led to only a 2% increase in the number of cars sold, each one of those is 3 tonnes less carbon. This is low-hanging fruit. It is a real opportunity we could seize. Such chargers do not have the complication of a deep retrofit and they are available to very wide groups of people. They would be visible and tangible evidence this is something that needs to be done now and not put off until a one-stop shop comes to town. These are things that can start the momentum and give communities a chance to build from the bottom up.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important topic. I will begin by outlining recent price developments and the Government response and then I will discuss smart metering, EV policy and the Government's Reduce Your Use campaign.

The most immediate factor affecting electricity prices in Ireland is the continuing upward trend in international gas prices, where we are a price taker. Gas prices have been rising steadily since March 2020 and were further exacerbated following the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. This feeds directly through to retail electricity as the wholesale price of electricity correlates strongly with the price of gas. The Government is very aware of the impact on households of increasing electricity costs. In addition to measures taken in budget 2022, the Government has announced a €505 million suite of measures to mitigate cost-of-living increases, including a credit payment to all domestic electricity accounts, additional fuel allowance payments amounting to €225, a new targeted €20 million scheme for the installation of photovoltaic panels for households that have a high reliance on electricity for medical reasons and a reduction in VAT from 13.5% to 9% on gas and electricity bills from May to October. In addition, response 6 of the national energy security framework charges the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, with implementing a package of measures to enhance protections for financially vulnerable customers and customers in debt by quarter 3, ahead of the next heating season. Furthermore, in this fuel allowance year recipients received a total of €1,139 compared to €735 in 2020-21 and €756 in 2019-20. This includes the €5 weekly increase announced in budget 2022 and an additional €225 announced in 2022.

I turn to smart meters. Citizen participation in the clean energy transition is essential to meeting our ambitious climate targets. The infrastructure needed to empower citizens to become active energy consumers is smart metering. Action 22 under the national energy security framework, led by the CRU and ESB Networks, aims to leverage the roll-out of the smart metering programme by providing electricity customers with access to their data, thus enabling greater citizen participation. The CRU will also examine charges within its remit to ensure the differential between peak and off-peak tariffs provides the opportunity for electricity customers to save money by moving some consumption to off-peak hours.

On heat controls and reducing consumption, the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, operates a number of energy-efficiency upgrade schemes on behalf of the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. Support for heating controls is available under the better energy homes scheme. All homeowners whose homes were built and occupied before 2011 can apply for the €700 grant to upgrade their heating controls. The Government has also launched a new nationwide public information campaign, Reduce Your Use, to promote and encourage energy-efficiency and highlight the range of government supports that are available to households and businesses to help to lessen the impact of rising costs.

The Government is deeply committed to its climate action plan goal of having nearly 1 million EVs on the road by 2030. The Government's draft EV charging infrastructure strategy 2022-25, which is currently out for public consultation, promotes the roll-out of publicly accessible charging points for EVs. It focuses on meeting the needs of EV owners who are unable to charge their vehicles at home, as well as offering top-up charging at destinations and on major routes. Work is currently being progressed to expand the EV home charger grant to include shared parking in apartment blocks and similar developments. The Department of Transport is working closely with the SEAI and expects a scheme for apartments to open in the near future.

I am disappointed by the Minister of State's lack of urgency. With regard to EVs, he is saying work is under way to look at the needs of estates that do not have driveways and multiple units that do not have charging points beside their car parking areas. This has been an obvious defect. We have had a grant in place for three years for the councils to put them into lamp poles or onto the side of the road, but not one council has taken it up. There needs to be a sense of urgency that councils have a responsibility for climate action plans. They are all producing plans but they are sitting on their hands when it comes to these practical measures.

The heat controls are not accessible through the 80% grant, even though a manufacturer I know claims a 25% reduction in heat use can be achieved in any home - no matter what the household is using, it can achieve that reduction. That is real, tangible change. I reckon, just on the back of the envelope, that if we rolled out a significant programme to those homes and reached even a third of them we would save 5 million tons of CO2. That is not far off 10% of our total carbon emissions. That is something we could target. We could do the same with the 1.75 million smart meters. If they even took 0.3 megatonnes off their electricity - if they reduced it by 0.3 megatonnes - you would have another 3 million tonnes by activating just half of those smart meters.

The same is true of pushing up the EV purchasing rate. They now pay for themselves over their lifetime, so we are not asking people to incur a big penalty by going to EVs. They are actually saving money for themselves. I ask the Government to look at these easier measures that are more accessible to wide numbers of people. To confront the climate crisis, we need everyone to have the sense that they are part of it and not waiting five or ten years for the big project to come to town.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter and for introducing increased urgency into our challenge. The Government accepts that consumers are currently facing volatility in energy prices due to a particular spike in international gas prices. It has taken action to address this by using the tax and social welfare system. This includes measures such as the fuel allowance increase, a credit payment to all domestic electricity accounts and a reduction in VAT on gas and electricity bills, as mentioned.

Other measures include the wider package of energy-efficiency supports, including from the SEAI, that make it easier and more affordable for homeowners to undertake home energy upgrades for warmer, healthier and more comfortable homes with lower energy bills. Changes to the warmer homes scheme involve a significant increase in the number of free energy upgrades for those most at risk of energy poverty. For those not eligible for free upgrades, grants for cavity wall and attic insulation have more than tripled. These are highly cost-effective upgrade measures that can be deployed rapidly and at scale this year. It is expected that these works will pay back in between one to two years in most houses. However, the best long-term approach for Ireland to reduce consumers' exposure to volatility on international wholesale energy markets is to invest in energy-efficiency, in renewable energy and in interconnection with the UK and the EU to deepen the internal energy market. I understand planning permission was agreed yesterday for the interconnector between Ireland and France.

I will finally outline the role of the CRU. The CRU was assigned responsibility for the regulation of electricity and gas retail markets under the Electricity Regulation Act and subsequent legislation. The CRU is responsible for the co-ordination of the smart meter programme. The Deputy will note the CRU is accountable to a joint committee of the Oireachtas, not the Government or the Minister, for the performance of its functions. He may also wish to note the CRU provides a dedicated email address for Oireachtas Members as well.

On local authorities not taking up the grant on EV chargers, I thank the Deputy for highlighting that. They are certainly not doing it in adequate numbers. In my own area, the local authority is putting in EV chargers. They may not be accessing the grants but they are putting them in. They are not putting in enough of them but there is some action happening on the ground in my area at least.

Health Services Staff

The next Topical Issue matter is the ongoing strike action by medical scientists.

It may not be an ongoing strike anymore, but in any event it is hard to think of a more blatant example of unfair and unjustifiable work practices and workplace situations that exists in our hospitals. Qualified scientists who worked through Covid, dealt with the cyberattack and accepted extra work are paid 8% less than colleagues who did the same work and who sit by side with them in the lab. Some earn less than those they supervise and others' wages decrease if they qualify. Whatever about pay, many hospitals, like University Hospital Kerry, have introduced compulsory on-site on-call rosters. This in effect is mandatory overtime.

Staff must work obligatory overtime of 12 to 36 hours extra per week. Many staff at the hospital in Crumlin work 24 hours of extra overtime. In Kerry, the Monday to Friday staff must work the daytime as well as the night which means, in effect, a 20-hour shift, and from 8 p.m. they are on their own covering two departments and they get no proper break. On Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays in Kerry, there used to be a 24-hour shift but that changed last year to a 12-hour shift so staff are working on twice as many weekends.

I spoke to one scientist who has worked for 30 years and never had a strike day. In fact, I understand that the last industrial action was 50 years ago. Medical scientists have waited decades for this pay inequality to be resolved because clearly their pay and working conditions are not fair or reasonable. As a result, as the Minister of State may know, an increasing number of staff have become unwell due to burnout and are leaving. When trainees are about to qualify, they see the work pressure that staff must undergo. As a result, pharmaceutical companies are mopping up newly qualified staff. Whatever about the history of what has gone on - the expert group's recommendation for restored pay and for pay levels to be the same as the biochemists was accepted by the Minister for Health and Children at the time, who is now the Taoiseach - and whatever about benchmarking and procedural errors, I know that exploratory talks have begun or are due to begin today but I believe the Government must intervene and the HSE must engage properly. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform must be involved. The HSE must enter meaningful discussions, provide a timeline and not look over its shoulder at any other workplace situations. The Government must resolve this inequality and the two-tier pay system that continues to exist.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Health.

Firstly, I wish to acknowledge and pay tribute to the dedication, professionalism and commitment of all medical scientists throughout the country. As the Deputy has quite rightly said, medical scientists play a valued and vital role within our health service. They worked tirelessly during the pandemic. Their efforts in testing Covid-19 samples were and remain very significant. It was not just during Covid that they have worked tirelessly. They work tirelessly at other times, as the Deputy has outlined. The Government recognises the extraordinary contribution made by those working in our health services, which is evidenced by the decision taken earlier this year to provide a pandemic bonus payment.

I am fully aware of the ongoing and long-standing claim for pay parity between medical scientists and clinical biochemists. Health management has been engaging with the Medical Laboratory Scientists Association, MLSA, on these issues at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, under the terms of the current public service agreement, Building Momentum. As the MLSA is part of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the association is bound by the terms of the agreement for the remainder of its lifetime.

Building Momentum includes the process of sectoral bargaining to deal with all outstanding claims across the public sector. The bargaining fund equates to 1% of basic pensionable pay for each bargaining unit set up under the agreement. The MLSA requested, and was facilitated, with its own bargaining unit in the sectoral bargaining process in order to progress its claim for parity. As such, the MLSA has at its disposal a fund equivalent to 1% of basic pay of all medical scientists. While this fund is insufficient to resolve its long-standing claims, it can partially resolve them and the remainder could be addressed in a future public service agreement as per the terms of Building Momentum.

As I have previously stated, the MLSA and health management have been engaged in talks over the last number of months with the aim of finding a way to advance the claim through the sectoral bargaining process. Several options were explored during these talks but to date but none have satisfactorily resolved the claim within the terms set out under Building Momentum. As this matter could not be resolved, it has been referred to the Public Sector Agreement Group, PSAG, which is the dispute resolution mechanism that was set up under Building Momentum, twice since January. At the latest meeting on 11 May, the PSAG recommended that the matter be immediately referred to the WRC and that industrial peace be maintained in the meantime. Health management met the MLSA under the auspices of the WRC on 17 May but, unfortunately, no resolution was reached.

The parties have accepted an invitation from the Labour Court today for an exploratory engagement in order that the court might establish whether, and how, it might assist the parties in finding a resolution to the matters in dispute. I welcome the decision by the MLSA to lift its strike action to attend this Labour Court engagement. The Government recognises that all of the State’s industrial relations machinery should be utilised to resolve the matter. As the Deputy has clearly said, all parties need to be at the table to find a mechanism that will prevent further strike action.

The Minister of State has said that health management has engaged with the association. I am not sure it has engaged in a meaningful way because the offer of 1% is neither here nor there nor going to the creamery. I have spoken to a scientist who feels that the training of new graduates is soul-destroying because she does her best to bring them up to speed, but when most graduates are exposed to the full workload, they choose not to work in the public system and are lost to private industry. As the pharmaceutical industry is booming at the moment, it has the resources to offer better pay and conditions. That is all the more reason for the medical scientist issue to be ironed out as soon as possible. As part of the graduate work, those who choose to work as laboratory aids are not required to be qualified. When they see that they will receive a pay cut, they are scared off to a large extent. Even though one of the people to whom I spoke is close to retirement, she now works more hours than she has ever done. That is a significant problem because there are staff shortages in the laboratory. There is no immediate prospect of any of those vacancies being filled, which is no wonder because all of the graduates are choosing not to enter the public system. That situation is in addition to what has happened over the last few years.

The Minister of State has paid tribute to the work that medical scientists carried out during Covid and the cyberattack. I accept that they have received a bonus payment. Let us not go down that road again because there are people working side by side and some of them are not getting it either. Something must be done about this issue. One cannot be looking over one's shoulder. The current situation is clearly inexcusable, unjustifiable and unequal. Again, the representative body has decided to enter exploratory talks. I hope meaningful negotiations can take place during those talks.

I thank the Deputy again for raising this issue. I welcome the fact that there is a meeting today and that all sides have decided to participate.

I do not know whether the Deputy listened to RTÉ Radio 1 yesterday morning when Tony Canavan, the CEO of the Saolta Hospital Group, was interviewed. He gave a fantastic interview that clearly explained the work done by medical science laboratory practitioners in all of the hospitals. I say to anybody who thinks that their role just concerns patients within hospitals that they play an integral part in our health services. Not only do they do essential work for hospitals, but they also do essential work for GPs who need tests done on blood samples and so the impact of their work spreads right into the community. Yesterday, the CEO talked about the Saolta group, which covers the areas in which the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and I and our constituents live. He said that 400,000 procedures would have to be halted as a result of one day's strike. Therefore, we cannot afford not to have negotiations. The Deputy is right that we clearly need representatives of the HSE, the MLSA and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform at the negotiating table. I welcome the intervention and I am glad they are meeting now. However, meaningful negotiations must take place to prevent a repeat of what happened over the last two days.

Heritage Sites

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, for coming in here today. I am very grateful because I know he has a hectic schedule as a constituency Deputy and as a Minister of State. I do not have anything against him but I am not too happy that the line Minister is not here to answer my Topical Issue. For three consecutive weeks I have tabled this Topical Issue and I only got an email as I sat in my seat here to inform me that the line Minister is not available. I would have pulled my Topical Issue if I had known that earlier this morning. Notwithstanding that, I appreciate the Minister of State being here and I hope that we can cobble out a good outcome to all of this.

Last June, the Cabinet announced that sites run by Shannon Heritage in the mid-west would be transferred to local authorities, including Clare County Council. This announcement was warmly received and many in Clare felt immense hope that it would breathe new life into iconic tourism and heritage sites, such as Bunratty Castle, Knappogue Castle and Craggaunowen Bronze Age park. Following the Cabinet's decision, Clare County Council was instructed by the Government to commence discussions with Shannon Group on progressing this transfer. All parties, especially the Shannon Heritage workers who have hung onto their jobs by a thread throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, hoped that this process would wrap up in advance of the 2022 tourism season. Frustratingly, it has not.

The transfer of the sites is somewhat convoluted. At national level it requires a transfer of responsibilities from the Department of Transport to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I believe the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform will also have a major function in this process, as will the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media. Clare County Council management has met several Ministers and has undertaken due diligence, which has been very extensive. This has encompassed the realms of operational, financial and business performance, technical due diligence to include property and asset surveys and also human resources.

The due diligence process exposed a number of problems, with one of the key ones being the poor structural state of many of the iconic buildings in Bunratty and Craggaunowen. The roof of Bunratty's 15th century castle is in a poor and dangerous state of repair, the thatched and cottage roofs are falling away and the once beautiful walled garden at Knappogue has been utterly neglected. Clare County Council is seeking a national funding commitment of €5 million per annum over three years. This funding request relates to operational costs, initial set-up and conservation and maintenance works. From the perspective of Clare County Council, the transfer of Shannon Heritage sites cannot be a financial burden on the county council's budgeting process and the provision of statutory provisions or impact negatively on Clare's ratepayers. As a result and in order to move forward, a nationally funded financial package is required.

The current state of play, as I understand it, is that Clare County Council has met Department of Transport officials and is also engaging with the other associated Departments. An interdepartmental working group has been set up to consider the funding request. Representatives from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media along with the Office of Public Works, OPW, have been invited to participate in this group, but no clear timeframe has been set regarding when it will conclude its work and report back to the Government.

I reiterate that everybody in the region wanted this to happen this summer. Clare County Council and Shannon Group must agree on a schedule and a transfer date to remove all ambiguity, particularly for the 140 workers whose morale has been very low given that this situation has dragged out and become quite a saga. I hope the Minister of State can give a glimmer of hope today that this will conclude, the funding will be provided and this can be a success.

On behalf of the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Naughton, I welcome the opportunity to update the House on this topic.

As Members may be aware, Shannon Group informed the Department in summer 2020 that it was necessary to consider a comprehensive and radical adjustment to its structure to secure the long-term future of the business and its employees. A number of challenges had arisen, including the lack of expertise in maintaining the sites in the group, the capital investment required to maintain the heritage sites and the impact of the onset of Covid-19. Since the previous update given by the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, to the House on the transfer of Shannon Heritage sites, King John's Castle successfully transferred to Limerick City and County Council on 4 April. Shannon Group and the council worked together with extensive preparation to ensure the successful transfer of the castle, and the Minister of State wishes to acknowledge this effort today.

The Shannon Heritage business of Bunratty Castle and Folk Park, Craggaunowen, Knappogue Castle and the Cliffs of Moher retail outlet remain to transfer to Clare County Council. I will provide an update on the progress of this transfer. Shannon Group is continuing to engage with Clare County Council on the transfer of the Shannon Heritage business and key sites. Officials in the Department of Transport met Clare County Council on 5 May and were provided with an update on the preparations for the transfer, in particular on the due diligence process under way in the council. The departmental officials met the council again last week to further discuss the work that remains to be done for the transfer to progress. As part of the due diligence process, the council identified a number of issues, including issues with funding both in the short term and in the long term to ensure the sustainability of the business.

The Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, has advised that she believes the most appropriate way to consider these funding requirements and to bring this matter to a successful conclusion is through the establishment of an interdepartmental working group comprising key stakeholders. The Department of Transport had previously engaged bilaterally with other Departments on the matter of the transfer. By bringing the relevant Departments and other stakeholders together through this group, the Department aims to comprehensively address the issues remaining for the successful transfer of the business and sites. Representatives from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, the OPW and the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media have been invited to participate in this group. The group held its first meeting on 19 May and will meet again shortly. The agreement of the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Housing, Local Government and Heritage will be required to execute the transfer of the business and sites to the council. The Department of Transport is engaging with both Departments in this regard.

The Minister of State has also advised that she is continuing to engage with the OPW and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage regarding the conservation of Bunratty Castle. As the castle is a national monument, the OPW has responsibilities relating to its conservation and maintenance. In preparation for undertaking this role, the OPW has been carrying out the necessary assessment of the castle to inform the programme of works needed and the associated costs.

While all parties are working towards a successful transfer of the business and sites, until the transfer takes place it remains the responsibility of Shannon Group to operate and manage the Shannon Heritage business. This must be carried out in line with its commercial mandate, fiduciary best practice and with awareness of the group's accountability for the proper management of the company. Shannon Group had made the decision to close Bunratty Castle in September 2021 for the winter season. However, the extension of the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, enabled the site to remain open, although with reduced opening hours. The castle is now fully reopened for the summer season, which is welcome.

As previously outlined to the House, Covid-19 had a huge impact on all tourism and heritage sites from its onset in early 2020. However, there are grounds for optimism, including a welcome increase in visitor numbers, and we are hopeful that numbers will continue to increase significantly as 2022 progresses. I assure the Deputy that this Government will continue to support Shannon Group to ensure that the transfer of the Shannon Heritage business and heritage sites will proceed as planned.

I appreciate the Minister of State's reply. The problem for everyone in County Clare at present is that this is very much in a state of flux. When the Government announced that these were going to be transferred to Clare County Council, it was like the announcement of a divorce or a relationship split. Immediately, Shannon Group took its eye of interest off the Shannon Heritage sites. They have been neglected. I do not mind saying that here because that is the sad reality. The roof of the iconic 15th century castle is in a poor state of repair. The castle has withstood siege and fire, but it will have to close at some point to undergo essential repairs.

The county council just needs a timeframe. There are 140 employees and they are hanging onto this with bated breath. They have had the uncertainty of the pandemic and now they have the uncertainty relating to the transfer. Last week, I met the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Michael McGrath, to find out where everything stood. It has not yet reached his desk and, for me, that means the sign-off of the financial aspect of it has not yet gone before the Department. What may be the problem here is that there are a number of Departments involved - the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Department of Transport, the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform - and I am sure each Minister does not want to take a €15 million hit to his or her budget. However, if we break it down, what Clare County Council is asking for is €5 million per year over three years. If we break it down further, perhaps, each of the four Departments could fund €1.25 million each in this first year. That would allow this to happen successfully.

The entire region depends on this and I see the split from Shannon Group as positive. It allows Clare County Council, which has a proven and successful track record of running tourism sites, such as the Cliffs of Moher, to take the helm, brings certainty for workers and brings tourism back to the region. However, all this requires a pathway and a plan. It is great to hear that interdepartmental meetings are taking place, but we need a timeframe and to know that the end game for which everybody is aiming is to fund this, make it happen and see it become a reality.

On behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, I reiterate that the Government recognises the importance of Shannon Heritage to the mid-west region. During the Covid-19 pandemic the Government showed its commitment to Shannon Heritage through the provision of supports, allowing the sites to remain open when restrictions permitted. Even with these supports, the impact of Covid-19 has been enormously challenging for Shannon Heritage, but I am advised that since the easing of public health restrictions, the increase in the number of visitors to heritage sites has been considerable. Almost 500,000 visitors visited Shannon Heritage sites in 2021, up from just over 300,000 in 2020. Although the sites were closed due to public health restrictions in the early months of 2021, these visitor numbers show a strong performance once restrictions were lifted.

This increase in visitor numbers will, hopefully, continue into 2022, particularly in light of the removal of all public health restrictions. There are welcome developments also in international travel with the increase in transatlantic flights. Given these positive signs we are hopeful that in 2022 the tourism and heritage sectors can begin to recover from the impacts of Covid-19.

As I mentioned, an interdepartmental working group has now been established to consider the funding requirements identified by Clare County Council and this work is ongoing. I understand this group will now meet regularly with a view to progressing the transfer of Shannon Heritage businesses and sites to Clare County Council as planned.

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