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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022

Vol. 1027 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Teaching Qualifications

Cork Life Centre, on Winter's Hill, Cork, is a one-of-a-kind institution. It is a voluntary organisation offering an alternative learning environment to marginalised young people. The centre and its staff often offer one-to-one tuition in junior certificate and leaving certificate subjects but, for the staff of Cork Life Centre, value is placed on social education just as much as the academic. The centre focuses on fostering positive relationships between students and staff. Supports are continuously offered to students with regard to any challenges they might face inside the school environment or at home and in the students' community. The centre is not officially recognised as an alternative educational facility and funding until recently has been minimal. I note the extra supports the Minister has provided, primarily through one-off funding from the social inclusion section of her Department and through much-improved provision of co-operation hours in conjunction with Cork Education and Training Board, Cork ETB. I also commend the Minister on her visit to the centre during the summer. I understand she was greatly impressed by all she experienced during her visit.

Turning to the point of my Topical Issue matter, the Minister and I are both qualified teachers, are both registered with the Teaching Council and received payment commensurate with our qualifications. That is fair and right. The same is not being afforded to many of the staff in Cork Life Centre. Many of the staff there are not paid a rate commensurate with their qualifications or their experience. Some of these people have master's degrees. Others have spent a lifetime working with children with exceptional needs and students who come from very challenging backgrounds. It is time those suitably qualified staff working within this organisation had their qualifications reflected in their terms and conditions and in their pay packets. It is not appropriate for the current situation to continue.

Since the Minister's elevation to office, she has been a very progressive Minister for Education. She has initiated the school transport review, which was ignored by successive Ministers before her. There has been record spending on special education, now amounting to €2.7 billion. Most recently, in the budget she committed to €5 million to be diverted to counselling services in schools. The regularisation of qualified teaching staff and pay and conditions at Cork Life Centre could be another progressive footnote in that series of achievements. I beg the Minister to consider this in the interest of fairness and equality in the workplace.

Back in 2013, when I was lucky enough to buy my first house, I found it incredibly difficult to get a mortgage. I was still a temporary teacher; I had no permanency. I can understand the difficulties many in Cork Life Centre face at the moment. To get a mortgage, let alone a car loan, would be quite difficult in the current environment. We need to look at this, it needs to be dealt with and I would welcome the Minister's response in that regard.

I thank the Deputy for his question and his ongoing interest in Cork Life Centre. The centre, in Sunday's Well, caters for young people who have encountered challenges in completing mainstream education. The centre is one of a number of such alternative education providers nationally.

The Department of Education has provided funding to Cork Life Centre for the last number of years, with that support increasing significantly since 2018. In 2022 the Department will provide funding of €177,500, as well as 6,000 co-operation hours, in conjunction with the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science.

In June of last year, as the Deputy alluded to, I was fortunate enough to visit the centre and had the opportunity to meet young people who attend the centre, their parents and guardians, staff from the centre and the management of the centre. I concur with the Deputy that I was truly impressed and grateful to have the opportunity to engage, particularly to engage directly with the centre's young people, to listen to them and to hear from them about their experience of Cork Life Centre. It really was a positive engagement from their point of view.

During that meeting, the centre raised the issues of security of employment for their staff and terms and conditions, including payment rates for the centre's teaching staff. Staff employed in Cork Life Centre, under the co-operation hours arrangements by Cork Education and Training Board, are employed under terms and conditions, including pay scales, in line with arrangements which apply to settings outside the recognised school system. It is generally not unusual that tutors may hold qualifications that entitle them to recognised teacher status or registration with the Teaching Council, but payment rates and terms and conditions are generally dependent on the setting or sector in which a person is employed.

A commitment was given to examine the circumstances around the payment of teachers at Cork Life Centre. I am committed to honouring that agreement through the Review of Out-of-School Education Provision. That review was carried out by a working group comprising representatives of stakeholders, including the Department of Education, the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Tusla, SOLAS, Education and Training Boards Ireland and the National Educational Psychological Service.

The report on the review was published in May 2022. The review finds that out-of-school education settings are providing an important role in maintaining contact with education and supporting well-being for a key cohort of learners who have encountered challenges in mainstream settings through adopting a holistic approach based around the individual. However, approaches to the education curriculum, certification and education pathways for students are highly dependent on what can be provided for in each setting.

Cork Life Centre is seeking sustainability for the future, which is what the Review of Out-of-School Education Provision aims to provide for the entire sector as a whole.

It is intended that implementation of the report's recommendations will include developing criteria for structures, governance and level of education provision, including scoping out costs associated with such settings providing education for students who have encountered difficulties completing mainstream education.

The work on the implementation is ongoing at present and is up and running. I confirm that to the House.

I welcome the investment the Minister has put into the centre over the past few years, which, as she has detailed, is €177,500, as well as the 6,000 co-operation hours. That is not in dispute and is greatly welcomed by all at the centre, including Don O'Leary and Rachel Lucey. I welcome the commitment the Minister has given to honour the agreement, as she has said, through the Review of Out-of-School Education Provision. Could the Minister give me some clarity in her supplementary response? Are we looking at that review concluding this year or next year? How long will that review process take? That is important. As the Minister has intimated in her answer, the issue here is the sustainability of the centre and other institutions like it right across the country into the future.

It would give people great peace of mind if they thought a conclusion to that process would happen soon.

I will finish with some remarks by the President of University College Cork, UCC, Professor John O'Halloran, in relation to the Cork Life Centre, when he conferred an honorary doctorate on Mr. Don O'Leary. He described Mr. O'Leary as a "true pioneer of education" and a champion for those who can flourish outside of mainstream school settings, given the right opportunity. He went on to say that staff at UCC had seen first-hand the work that Mr. O'Leary had put in to ensuring that no child is left behind. Don O'Leary and his team at the Cork Life Centre can only continue in that vein with the appropriate staffing. The longer we delay finding a lasting solution for the centre and its counterparts, the worse the outcome will be. Time is of the essence here and the Minister is well aware of that. I welcome her commitment and ask her to provide clarity on when the review might conclude.

I reiterate that I am determined to ensure that the implementation of the recommendations of the review of out of school education provision will allow all children and young people to be supported throughout their education and to achieve their fullest potential. The review is successfully completed and we have now moved on to the implementation process and the work on that has already begun. I am very keen to see progress made on the implementation of the recommendations of the report. In the interim, the level of funding currently provided to Cork Life Centre will continue. As the Deputy said, that amounts to €177,500 as well as the quite substantial 6,000 co-operation hours which are being provided in conjunction with the Department of Education. Until such time as the recommendations of the report are implemented, this funding will be in place and will provide ongoing support for the centre.

I also give the Deputy a commitment that the Department will continue engagement with Cork Life Centre to determine a framework for sustainability for the centre and its staffing. Sustainability for the future is what Cork Life Centre has requested and is what it is seeking. Indeed, it is what the review of out of school education provision aims to provide for the sector as a whole, including Cork Life Centre. The body of work to advance the implementation of the recommendations is now under way and will be completed as soon as possible. There is an absolute commitment that this will include, as I have said already, looking at many of the issues that the Deputy has raised.

Housing Policy

A man called Philip came into my clinic this week. Philip has recently entered recovery and is currently staying in step-down accommodation where he has been for the past six months. However, he must be out of there by next Friday and will then become homeless. When he went into Cork city to present as a person at risk of homelessness, he was told nothing could be done for him because he had been removed from the housing list when he went into recovery and entered residential rehabilitation. Entering into rehabilitation and starting a journey of recovery is one of the bravest things a person can do but for many, housing presents as the number one barrier. If Philip had not gone into rehabilitation, if he had not tried to get out of active addiction, he would still be on the council's housing list, with an opportunity of getting a house.

As the Sinn Féin spokesperson on addiction, recovery and well-being, last year I set about drafting a document on a recovery charter, a charter of rights for those in recovery. It is a comprehensive document that lists what Sinn Féin believes are the rights of those in recovery. I brought a draft of this document to people in recovery and asked them for their opinions. The first thing said by every single person who reviewed the document was that housing needed to be the number one right because it was the number one issue they faced. People are leaving residential rehabilitation and going straight into homelessness. Those who are lucky enough to get shared recovery housing, normally for a period of six months, are often stuck there because they have nowhere else to go. One participant told me that he had been in shared recovery accommodation for over three years. He was stable, had a job and was involved in his community. He had done everything right. His children were in the care of Tusla, which was ready to release them to him but he could not find anywhere to live so he could not get his children back. Both he and his children have been stuck in limbo for the past two years. That story stuck with me because it involves someone who has done everything right and yet he is faced with an insurmountable barrier.

The current Government sometimes says that Sinn Féin does not come up with solutions but we have solutions for this. I ask the Minister of State to instruct all local authorities not to remove people from the housing list who enter residential rehabilitation for the period during which they are in treatment. I also ask the Government to consider a wraparound, own door recovery housing pilot project modelled on the Housing First programme. I ask the Government to treat those in recovery with compassion and to ensure that local authorities and the Department of Housing, Local Government do the same. These are brave people who are doing their best to create a community and to rebuild their lives. We should be standing beside them and supporting them, not putting barriers in front of them. This is another reason we need a referendum on a right to housing. Recovery housing is vital for people who are on the recovery journey and I ask the Government to seriously consider the requests I have made.

I thank Deputy Gould for articulating the issues so well and for making some very good proposals.

Supporting individuals and families facing housing challenges is a key Government priority. Housing for All commits to a housing-led approach as a primary response to all forms of homelessness and recognises that many of those experiencing homelessness have additional support needs, including addiction. The main focus of the provision of housing to those in need is social housing support, the overarching aim of which is to ensure that households who do not have sufficient resources to meet their accommodation needs are provided with adequate housing. In order to qualify for social housing support, the household must be deemed to be eligible for and in need of support and being placed on a housing waiting list. If a household meets the eligibility and need criteria, it qualifies for a suite of social housing supports, including the housing assistance payment, HAP, and is placed on the housing list to be considered for allocation of suitable tenancies in accordance with the authority's allocation scheme. The local authority assesses housing applicants, taking into account factors such as the condition and affordability of existing accommodation, medical and compassionate grounds and so on. The authority then prioritises the needs of approved applicants in accordance with its allocation scheme. The allocation of social housing support to qualified households is a matter for the local authority concerned, in accordance with its allocation scheme as per section 22 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act of 2009 and associated social housing allocation regulations of 2011. This legislation requires all local authorities, as a reserve function, to make an allocation scheme which specifies among other things, the manner of an order of priority for the allocation of dwellings to households on the housing and transfer lists.

Recognising that a stable home provides the basis for recovery in other areas, the Government has reaffirmed its support for the Housing First programme, with the launch of a new five-year implementation plan at the end of 2021. The priority for Housing First is to support a person who has experienced homelessness into permanent housing as quickly as possible, without any preconditions around addiction or mental health treatment. Then intensive work continues on the issues once the person is housed. These individuals often have complex, high support needs such as mental health or physical health problems, addiction issues or dual diagnoses, that is, the presence of mental ill health and a substance addiction. The implementation of the plan is a joint initiative of the Departments of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and Health, the HSE, the criminal justice system and local authorities, supported by NGOs.

I was not aware that those entering residential recovery programmes were removed from the housing list on entering such services. I will discuss that with the Department but I was not aware of it. I am also keen to look at the charter the Deputy spoke about. It is important that any positive proposals that come from the Opposition are given serious consideration. I will certainly take those issues on board. The Deputy mentioned wraparound services which is exactly what we are talking about with Housing First. We will shortly be launching a youth homelessness strategy as well.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is paramount that we treat those in recovery with compassion and offer them a full suite of services to help them through that difficult transition phase out of recovery and into sustainable employment and a better quality of life.

The response is not available.

I did not receive copies of it.

It is normal practice for it to be available.

That is no problem. I thank the Minister of State for his response, in particular the second half. The first half was Government jargon, but at least in the second half of the response he was genuine in the comments he made which was good to hear. When we are talking about people starting a recovery journey, it is not a political football. These are people who are vulnerable and need support. People in recovery is not a hot topic in politics. It is sometimes an area many people are not interested in or do not want to go near. When we are dealing with people who are in recovery, they need supports.

In the last part of his response, the Minister of State touched on the Government's new homeless strategy and Housing First. The target for 2023 Housing First is 240 tenancies. Our alternative budget brought forward by Deputy Ó Broin and I proposed a figure of 750. That is still not enough, but a target of 240 is unambitious. I ask the Minister of State to speak to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and when they are examining housing first they consider having step down and transition facilities. When people come out of places like Bruree and go into somewhere for six months, they need somewhere to go afterwards as well as wraparound services.

Six out of ten people on the island of Ireland experience addiction in their family, friends or themselves. This is not just about the individual; it is about the wider family and community and us as a State. I implore the Minister of State to examine this issue. I will send him a copy of the document I produced. I would love to work with him.

I would be delighted if the Deputy could send that document on. We will be more than happy to work with him on that. It is a matter for the local authority concerned in terms of the services it provides and the social housing supports it put in place.

As I said, a youth homelessness strategy is due to be launched later this year by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, which includes street outreach services. Under housing first, the target is an average of 264 tenancies per annum, with targets for each region. Homeless services in my constituency are very good at working with local authorities and homeless action teams in ensuring that secure housing is provided, as well as wraparound services. We will shortly deal with a matter from Deputy Cairns around family resource centres. All of these services are absolutely vital to those in recovery and who are trying to stay out of addiction. It is vitally important that we tackle this.

It is a matter for local authorities, as well as our Department, in terms of financing funding and policy supports. It is critically important that we have a full range of services. The term used by the Deputy, "compassion", is critical in supporting individuals and families who are in recovery. We will have a look at the removal of people from the housing list when in residential recovery and come back to the Deputy. I would be more than happy to receive the Deputy's document and speak to him again about this.

Family Resource Centres

Family resource centres provide invaluable services in communities across the country. They are a place that people can go to for assistance, support and information on everything from State services and training opportunities to counselling. They are a one-stop-shop for many vulnerable individuals and groups, including lone parent families, older people, people experiencing poverty and addiction and many others.

Given that we know one of the primary indicators of poverty in Ireland is lone parent families, the type of practical supports and intervention this centres offer makes an enormous difference to many families. All of these people can be guaranteed to be treated with respect and dignity. Each centre is staffed by professional social and support workers and led by local volunteers who devote considerable time to improving and ensuring the success. They are also interconnected with other services and groups, helping to link different people. For example, in Dunmanway, meals on wheels and the community garden are based in the centre. In Cork South-West, we are lucky to be served by family resource centres in Castletownbere, Adrigole, Dunmanway, Skibbereen and Bandon. They are an essential support facility embedded into those communities.

However, a major issue they face is security of funding. They receive funding from Tusla, the HSE and other State bodies. However, it is often insufficient, dispersed and is not multi-annual. This does not allow them to work to their full potential. I have worked with a few different centres to try to help them navigate the process, but it is Byzantine. These issues particularly affect centres in Skibbereen and Bandon which are in search of permanent locations. The Skibbereen centre has had to move several times in the space of a year, from one rented space to another, which is highly disruptive to the service and confusing for people using it. In addition, it is now operating on a year-to-year lease, adding even more uncertainty. It has stated very clearly that the next time it moves needs to be the last time. It desperately needs a permanent location to operate out of. This would enable it to solidify its position, develop its services and free up time currently spent worrying about and seeking space.

The Bandon Family Resource Centre is similarly in need of a new location. The nature of its work demands that the building has spaces for confidential meetings and can allow easy access. I have worked with it on the possibility of finding a HSE or council-owned building to use. However, these centres require proper capital funding to assist them. It should not be up to local volunteers to find spaces or local Deputies to act as some kind of intermediary with State bodies. The centres, like all others, provide absolutely essential services and need to be recognised.

Like many of these organisations, they end up saving the State money through early interventions and on the ground supports. These vital links prevent issues escalating. They need to be recognised in funding terms. First, this means funding levels that reflect their work and allow them to operate to their full capacity. The Department and Tusla need to work together with the Minister for Health and the HSE to establish a system of funding that will give each centre greater assurance and confidence. Every euro invested in them will pay back manifold, as well as the invaluable service they provide in these areas.

Second, and urgently, the Bandon and Skibbereen centres need capital funding for permanent locations. It is currently unclear how they will operate in the long term. There are no natural funding streams for them to apply for. Some resource centres are based in HSE buildings, while others are not. How does a centre go about securing permanent accommodation if there is no clear process to follow? Can the Minister of State please provide some guidance to help address the issue?

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I have worked with family resource centres in a voluntary capacity for many years. I agree wholeheartedly with the Deputy that they provide an invaluable service. They provide family support for children. Many have community childcare centres attached to them. We have previously spoken about addiction and recovery services. They are the backbone of many rural and urban communities.

The Government greatly appreciates the valuable work of our family resource centres and the work of community and voluntary bodies funded by Tusla Child and Family Agency. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has met a number of family resource centres in recent months to discuss their concerns, and this area of work is a significant priority for him and the Government. Over a period of two years, 2018 and 2019, the Department of Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth provided Tusla with an additional €4.5 million to invest in family resource centre programme. This funding facilitated the expansion of the programme to 121 family resource centres and provided additional supports in core funding for existing family resource centres. In 2020 and 2021, Tusla provided additional supports, as needed, to family resource centres and other funded community and voluntary partners to assist with the pressures arising from the Covid-19 pandemic.

In 2021, Tusla had a core budget of €18 million for the family resource centre programme.

This is a portion of more than €130 million in Tusla funding to community and voluntary bodies associated with the statutory remit for family support.

In budget 2022, additional funding of €6 million is allocated to enable Tusla to increase supports for the wider community and voluntary sector and for family resource centres, FRCs. An additional €650,000 was allocated to family resource centres in 2021 from the dormant accounts programme. A further €1 million in dormant accounts funding is being provided to FRCs during 2022.

The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, is aware that the family resource centres are providing significant levels of assistance on the ground to communities that are welcoming Ukrainian people and he has asked Tusla to continue to support FRCs in those efforts. The Minister will seek funding for family resource centres, specifically for this purpose, during discussions with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

While Tusla is a significant funder of FRCs, other Government bodies also provide substantial funding to FRCs to deliver services on their behalf. A short study of family resource centre funding in 2020 highlighted that, overall, more than half of their funding came from non-Tusla sources such as local authorities, education and training boards, ETBs, the HSE, Pobal and the Department of Social Protection.

Tusla provides a range of family support services, both directly and through its commission partners, which include FRCs. Tusla family support services are delivered on the basis of low, medium and high prevention. Tusla is working to embed and develop a consistent national approach to practice in all its response pathways and this aim is to ensure families receive consistent service levels in all Tusla areas and levels of needs.

With regard to Bandon and Skibbereen, it is incredibly tricky to find premises that are suitable for starters. There is probably no shortage of vacated or empty buildings such as bank buildings etc. but they have to be fitted out. Capital moneys, either through the LEADER programme or the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, could be a mechanism of supporting them to find a permanent home. I absolutely sympathise with both FRCs in trying to secure that. Securing long-term leases on premises is incredibly tricky and making them fit for purpose for the specific needs of families is a considerable challenge.

I thank the Minister of State for his commitment to family resource centres. They are an essential public support service. The centres in Cork South-West represent the incredible success they can be in helping groups and individuals. However those same centres also illustrate the weakness in the model, with insufficient funding and reliance on local goodwill and circumstances, rather than systematic supports. The funding allocations the Minister of State mentioned are welcome and great but they do not address the issues in Skibbereen and Bandon where the centres need capital funding more immediately.

There has to be a way for the Minister of State's Department to work with the Department of Health to acquire a building or appropriate facilities to ensure the future of the services because, to be honest, when we are going about this and we meet, we do not even really know whether we should look for a greenfield site or HSE-owned buildings. We do not know how we should go about it or what we should do. I know the Minister of State is familiar with the type of work family resource centres do and their importance. The Minister of State said he sympathises with them but I am asking him to work with them as well.

The family resource centre model, like much of our social and healthcare infrastructure, sees the provision of service through bodies separate from the State. While this offers increased local independence and capacity to respond to issues, it also places undue responsibility on volunteers. The boards of management for both centres do tireless work, not only in keeping them operating but also in trying to guarantee their future. They need the Minister of State to support them in supporting their communities. If the Minister of State can, I would love for him to visit the centres and meet locals, staff and volunteers there to see what difference they can make and how much this support is needed.

Different sources of funding are referred to in the response I have here. In many ways, FRCs are left chasing funding programmes and designing projects around specific funding programmes which can be a considerable task in itself. The Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, has through his work rolled out an additional seven pilot community development projects, CDPs, which are most welcome because many of them went the road under the 2009 cohesion programme. We want to specifically focus on and support those community development principles that FRCs do so well.

I will pass on the request to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, about visiting both Bandon and Skibbereen, if he is on a scheduled visit to the area. With regard to the point around the capital funding for securing a premises and whether it should be a greenfield site, it is highly challenging for a voluntary board to try to embark on a process such as that. I have been on voluntary boards of FRCs and I know exactly what it is like. I will take the request that the Deputy put to us here this evening back.

It would be important to try to support the work FRCs are doing and support the voluntary board in trying to achieve its objectives and find permanent homes because these families need all the help they can get in the community and they need the certainty of a permanent home as well. However, with regard to the funding issue, multi-annual funding is a tricky one. There are quite a number of sources of funding, not just Tusla, from which FRCs can draw down, but they need to be in a strong position and have a strong voluntary board to be able to support managers and staff to be able to pursue those streams of funding. I am sorry for the roundabout answer but I will take back the specific request to the Minister for the Deputy.

Departmental Funding

I am glad to see the Minister here this evening because the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who is leaving the Chamber, the Minister and I have discussed this on a number of occasions. I very much hope that tonight we can finally get confirmation of the promise the Minister made when he visited Drumkeeran last November. He met farmers, stakeholders, landowners and local politicians etc. The promise was that the Minister would deliver some type of compensation package. I hope that tonight, we will be told that compensation package is in place and that it will be delivered immediately.

The Minister and I know this has gone on far too long. The landslide at Shass Mountain happened almost 27 months ago, in June 2020. While I recognise and appreciate, as do the landowners, the fact that the Minister ensured that Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, payments were paid in the intervening period, which was important, they are nonetheless waiting far too long for the package of compensation.

We are speaking about more than 20 farmers and approximately eight foresters who were adversely affected by the damage from this landslide. Their patience has been sorely tested. When I raised the matter last June in the Dáil, which was the last time I raised it here, I made the point that maybe if they had marched, blocked roads and caused disruption, it might have been resolved sooner. However, they took the Minister at his word and so did I. I hope his word will be honoured here this evening.

I will not take up my four minutes. I have rehearsed these arguments too many times but I will put on record again the fact that Leitrim County Council did much good work. It pulled out all the stops and mitigated as much of the damage as it could. The Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who has just left, through his chairing of a multiagency group, kept farmers, landowners, Departments and local and national politicians in the loop. Good work has been done but there is still a huge piece missing in the middle of that jigsaw. I sincerely hope that piece is in the Minister's hand.

I thank Deputy Harkin for raising this important issue. I recognise the work she has done on this issue over the past while. I am working to address it and wish to bring peace of mind as quickly as possible to the landowners in the area.

As the Deputy referenced, I visited those affected by the landslide last November together with the Deputy, the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan, and Deputies MacSharry and Kenny. I know councillors Paddy O'Rourke and Mary Bohan have taken a strong interest in it as well. The Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, and I visited together that day because we recognised the stress that has been there in families and the importance of bringing a resolution to it.

I had hoped to have it concluded by now. The Deputy is right to say it has gone on too long and I hope to conclude it and bring it to a resolution very soon.

As the Deputy knows, the landslide occurred on Shass Mountain, which is close to the village of Drumkeeran, on 28 June 2020 following heavy rain. An area of blanket bog and adjacent forestry moved downhill with liquified peat, vegetation and trees. Some of the landslide material was held at the Dawn of Hope bridge close to the origin of the landslide. However, a quantity of material overflowed the bridge and made its way approximately 7 km downstream. It eventually spread out and settled on areas of farm and forestry land in several townlands. There were subsequent sporadic deposits of peat and other debris and the heaviest deposits occurred in the townlands of Corcormick, Derrindangan and Corchuill Lower.

The agricultural area affected by the landslide has been mapped by my Department using a combination of satellite imagery data for the period in question together with detailed global positioning system, GPS, data collected from surveys conducted on the ground in July and August 2020. The total agricultural area affected by the overspill has been calculated to be just over 24 ha. The total area of forestry within the damaged area is estimated to be 12 ha. This comprises land held in seven privately owned forestry contracts. The affected area is associated with 20 landowners or basic payment scheme claimants, and 19 of them have an affected area that exceeds 50 sq. m. Six of the seven forestry contracts have an affected area that exceeds 50 sq. m as well. A report prepared by RPS Group consultants for the then Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht estimated a total deposit amount of 160,000 cu. m or 160,000 tonnes, which is present at varying depths of up to two metres in the overspill areas. The costs associated with the removal of the overspill material would run to more than €20 million. In addition, the removal of the peat from the affected area could create significant environmental issues, especially in relation to water quality and aquatic life in the Diffagher River and Lough Allen.

As far as scheme eligibility of the overspill areas as agricultural land is concerned, these areas have remained eligible for payment under the basic payment scheme, as the Deputy mentioned, and other schemes administered by my Department because the applicants have been able to avail of the provisions of force majeure for the 2020, 2021 and 2022 scheme years. This means I have been able to protect these farmers' crucial payments in these years. The matter is under review for the year ahead.

Following extensive consultation with various stakeholders, a proposal for compensation was drafted. This proposal contains several measures to deal with the impact of the landslide and has been submitted to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform for sanction, which is required for funding in respect of the agreed package of measures. We are engaging with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on the proposal and an announcement will be made, I hope shortly, on the package of measures. As I said, this is a process I want to bring to a prompt conclusion to bring peace of mind to the landowners who are in this situation through no fault of their own and indeed to follow through on the commitments I and the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, provided when we visited there last November.

I will be honest with the Minister. Perhaps it is my naivety but I really thought when I came in here this evening he would be able to say there was a package in place and that it was agreed. I cannot remember exactly the wording the Minister used the last time I raised this issue on the floor of the House but I think the phrase "in due course" was used before. That could have been six or nine months ago, because the last time I brought it up, the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, took the question. I explained how disappointed I was then. The Minister and I know this has gone on far too long. What does "in due course" mean? What can I say or what can the Minister say to these farmers? They are waiting and waiting and waiting. Are we talking about a month, or two months? Can the Minister even guarantee this will be done and dusted before the end of the year? Is that possible? This happened in 2020. Will there be compensation before 2023? Could we even guarantee today that that package would be there?

On another point, the Minister talked about the farm payments being kept under review for 2023. What does that mean? Let us say there was a compensation package. Is the Minister able to tell me how that might interact with their farm payments? I am not just disappointed; I cannot believe it is not completed. I am aware many people have worked hard on this and the Minister mentioned a number of local councillors and others but I cannot know what the delay is. Maybe the Minister can tell me and tell those landowners. Maybe there are too few of them and it is not important enough. Maybe, as I said, they did not march and shout, but God, it needs to be done.

The landowners are important and they count. That is why both I and the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, travelled there and met the farmers directly. We made a commitment to them that we were going to work to put a package together. I had hoped to have it concluded at this stage but we have the outline of the package very clear. I and my officials are engaged with the Minister and Department of Public Expenditure and Reform at the moment on getting approval for it. We hope to get approval and get it soon. I hope to have this concluded by the end of the year.

I cannot give a clear guarantee as to when that will be because it is subject to agreement between my Department and that of Public Expenditure and Reform but we are fully committed to following through on the commitment we gave to the farmers concerned to bring this to a definitive conclusion. We know the very clear outline of what the package we are putting together is. I hope to get agreement between my Department and that of Public Expenditure and Reform on that soon. We want a situation that is going to bring a permanent outcome and permanent peace of mind to the farmers concerned. There is no need for farmers to march or protest on this because we are committed to following through on the commitment we have given. It is taking a bit longer than we had hoped but we will bring it to a final conclusion and one that brings peace of mind to the farmers concerned.

What happened to this community has been quite a traumatic event. It has affected the long-term capacity of all those landowners to use this land for agricultural purposes in future. As I said, the cost of moving in and clearing the land would be €20 million, which is simply unfeasible. It would be biologically dangerous as well given the potential impact on watercourses and the environment, so it is important we bring in a package that recognises the long-term impact on farming communities and on the local communities. We are expediting this and I hope to have it resolved shortly.

Just before midnight Minister; well done.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 11.57 p.m. go dtí 9.12 a.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 5 Deireadh Fómhair 2022.
The Dáil adjourned at 11.57 p.m. until 9.12 a.m. on Wednesday, 5 October 2022.
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