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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Feb 2025

Vol. 1062 No. 5

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

Workers in disability and GP out-of-hours services are among the hardest working healthcare professionals in this State. Without their commitment, so many of the services relied upon by so many simply would not exist, yet these workers are being paid less than their public sector counterparts for doing exactly the same work. They are being paid not marginally less but by 15% or more. In October 2023, through the WRC, the Government recognised workers in the sector were underpaid and it committed at that time to fully dealing with the issue. We are now more than a year later and there is still no resolution. We know talks broke down late last year because it became clear that the negotiating team on the Government's side was not given a mandate to actually implement the WRC agreement and deliver pay parity. There is a commitment in both the election manifestos of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to deliver pay parity. The programme for Government does not mention section 39 organisations or pay parity at all.

Will the Tánaiste mandate the Department's officials to implement the WRC agreement in full? Will he deliver the pay parity for these section 39 workers?

Yes, we will provide that mandate. Deputy Kerrane is right to highlight this issue. These health and social care workers and others carry out an invaluable service. Our health, social care and disability services are so reliant on it. I would point out that we have made several advanced steps on this issue, including the October 2023 agreement the Deputy referenced. State agencies have worked with service providers to administer the associated pay funding adjustments. The Government offered a further 8.5% increase in funding for pay. Added to the increase in October 2023, it would have provided a minimum increase of 16.5% in pay funding over a period of three-and-a-half-year if agreement had been possible. Ministers will now be seeking an early opportunity to restart engagement with unions and employers through the Workplace Relations Commission to provide certainty and progress to the sector as soon as possible.

The world looked on in disbelief this week as US President Trump made his outrageous and brutal proposal for the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from Gaza. I think we all agree that the people of Gaza have endured an horrific bombardment by Israel over many months. We have seen tens of thousands of civilians, including many children, killed and injured. The entire infrastructure in the enclave has been destroyed and devastated. At this time, it is all the more important that we in Ireland stand firm in our solidarity with the people of Gaza and of Palestine more widely and take strong action against Israel.

Before the general election, it seemed that all parties in this House, Government and Opposition, agreed on the urgent need to pass the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018 first introduced by Senator Black. Last night's debate gave rise to immense concerns for all of us across the Opposition that the Government was rowing back in some way or watering down the commitment on this Bill. My question is simple. Will the Government commit to giving effect to the Bill within a set timeframe to ensure we have a law in Ireland that would end trade in goods and services with the occupied Palestinian territories?

I thank Deputy Bacik. I agree with her comments regarding the dire humanitarian catastrophe. That phrase does not even capture the sense of destruction and loss of life, of home and of dignity that people have experienced in Gaza. I think all of us are united in working on that. I want to see what more the Government can do to help with the upscaling of humanitarian aid and assistance to the people of Palestine now and in standing by UNRWA at this challenging time too.

On the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018, it is important that the Government's position is not misrepresented. In fairness to the Taoiseach, when he was before the foreign affairs committee with legal advisers from the Department of Foreign Affairs just before the election, it was made extraordinarily clear that the Bill in its current form was not legally permissible and would require very significant changes. We had a discussion in the House last night where it was said the Opposition would be happy to work with the Government on technical changes. We must be truthful, though. If the law is to be permissible and compliant with EU law, it requires more than technical changes. I am happy to engage with the Opposition on this and I intend to meet Senator Black in the coming days. I will revert to the Deputy on a time for that.

In 2023, Women's Aid received its highest ever number of domestic abuse disclosures in its 50-year history. There were 40,048 disclosures of domestic abuse against women and children, which was an increase of nearly 20% in a year. Among the horrors being experienced by women behind closed doors were assaults with weapons, constant surveillance, rape and threats to life. Much of this violence happens in secret. In fact, secrecy is what makes domestic violence so damaging and so endemic. It is why a domestic violence register is so important. The family of Jennie Poole, who was murdered by her former partner in 2021, have led the campaign to create such a register. Before he became the Minister for Justice, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan supported the family. However, the programme for Government makes no mention of the register. Women need this information. Their lives could depend on it. Why is the creation of a domestic violence register not a priority for this Government?

I thank the Deputy for raising this extraordinarily important issue. It is one we have worked on across the House during the last period of time, including publishing an ambitious domestic, sexual and gender-based violence strategy, which was led by my colleague, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and establishing a new agency, called Cuan, to drive this zero-tolerance approach. When I was the Minister for Justice, I had the absolute honour of meeting Jennie's brother, Jason. He has rightly, as the Deputy said, been campaigning for what he calls "Jennie's Law". Within that is a very sensible proposal on how we get to a domestic violence register. The Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, is very committed to addressing this important issue and ensuring there are effective measures in place so the Garda can issue confidential warnings to persons who may be a risk in an intimate relationship. This is the ultimate aim of what needs to be achieved. Work is ongoing in the Department of Justice and I know engagement will take place in this regard.

The programme for Government refers to "all parties and groupings party to the Government". My question is simple. Which groupings are party to the Government and what agreements exist with them? Elsewhere, the programme for Government refers to support resources being made available to "others who support the Government". Who is being referred to there? Am I right in assuming that the groupings referred to are the Lowry group and the Healy-Rae group and that the others being referred to are those members of those groups who are not Ministers or Ministers of State in the Government? What agreements exist? Is there an agreement that those members who are not in the Government will vote with the Government throughout the course of the term or is it the case that they will vote on a case-by-case basis? Are there any other aspects to this agreement that the House should be aware of? Are there any other agreements in relation to Government support?

It must be highly insulting to Independent TDs who are democratically elected in their own right, just like Deputy Murphy, to be referred to by someone else's surname. I think the Deputy should really stop that sort of carry-on.

He was their chief negotiator.

No, sorry-----

Deputies, please.

There is no need for a back and forth. The last time I checked, they were called the "Regional Independents". The Minister of State, Deputy Seán Canney, sits with us in Cabinet and the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish, as well. I see Deputy Toole up there and I saw Deputy Heneghan earlier. I have also seen the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, the soon-to-be Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, and Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. Deputy Murphy could actually recognise them as individuals in their own right and might actually respect the mandates of their constituents.

It says "groupings", though, and that is what I am asking the Tánaiste about.

Does the Deputy get one question or is this just to barrage me?

Deputy, please.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. The next thing is this. The deals, if the Deputy wants to call them that, are called the "programme for Government". It is published on gov.ie. It will be implemented in full over the course of five years. There are no other deals and we look forward to advancing it.

Who are the groupings? It says "groupings". Who are they?

I am sorry, Deputy.

It is the regional Independent group----

Excuse me, Tánaiste.

I am sorry. The groupings are for the Deputy, actually.

Tánaiste, please.

Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the regional Independents, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, and Deputy Danny Healy-Rae.

We have moved on. I call Deputy Tóibín of the Independent Technical Group.

Go raibh maith agat. I have another example of the Tánaiste's Gucci Government wasting money. The Hill of Tara is one of the most important national monuments in the country. It is poorly served by the OPW in terms of an interpretive centre that is closed more than it is open and muddy paths for visitors. There is, however, a new addition. The OPW has been building the great wall of Tara and it has been building it for the past 14 years. It is an incredible length of time. Even in the context of the Government's glacial delivery of projects, 14 years must be a record. The OPW has told me it has spent €124,000 just on the materials for the wall, not including labour costs. It will not give me the labour costs. Knowing, however, that the office of posh walls spends a lot of money on labour costs, no doubt the amount is three or four times that figure. A couple of weeks ago, the Tánaiste said he was going to overhaul the OPW. Can he tell me how that is going?

I thank the Deputy very much for the question. I will ask the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW to revert on the specific project the Deputy referenced. I will point out that the OPW has assured the Government it has taken steps to enhance its own governance procedures to ensure that value for money is achieved in the delivery of projects. The Government is committed to achieving value for money in all public infrastructure projects and our programme for Government made a commitment to ensure that the OPW "and its structures deliver best value for money outcomes on all projects" it is responsible for. The OPW has implemented enhanced governance measures since issues have arisen and has commissioned an external audit to inform further measures that may be required for projects moving forward. It will be for the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW to bring forward to Government any proposals in terms of how he is going to advance that programme for Government commitment.

Fourteen years, though, is incredible.

It is extraordinary.

It is my privilege for the first time as a Deputy for the new Wicklow-Wexford constituency to speak here. I look forward to representing it. The constituency includes south Wicklow and north Wexford and I know the Tánaiste has a strong affinity with both areas. I look forward to working with him and the Government to deliver for our constituents and for the country generally.

I raise the question around legislation concerning nicotine-inhaling devices or vapes. As the Tánaiste knows, the last Government banned the sale of these devices to under-18s. However, legislation was prepared that would deal with the scourge of disposable vapes, now one of the major causes of litter in all our towns, as well as the issue of flavoured vapes and packaging designed to target young people in particular. The former Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, prepared the legislation. I have discussed this issue with the current Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, as well and she is keen to move on it. I would like the Tánaiste's assurance that the Government will address this public health crisis as soon as possible.

I thank the Deputy for his inaugural comments in his new role as a TD for Wicklow-Wexford. I wish him well and look forward to working with him, being from the neighbouring constituency of Wicklow. He is right that the previous Government and our colleague, the former Minister, Stephen Donnelly, showed great leadership on the issue of vaping in bringing forward very important and progressive public health legislation on this. The new Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and the Government are committed to taking further steps. We are seeing growing evidence in respect of the public health concerns and damage, and the broader issue of litter and environmental concerns the Deputy mentioned. I will ask the Minister to revert to him with a timeline.

I am honoured to be here as the first TD from Shannon, County Clare. It would not have been possible if it were not for the people of Clare, my family, party activists and those who have gone before me.

The number of patients on trolleys in University Hospital Limerick continues to consistently be the highest in the State. Last year, more than 6,000 patients left UHL's emergency department before completing treatment. The number of patients on trolleys for January of this year is 2,234. That is an increase of 161 on this time last year. The situation has deteriorated. In Clare, we have had a number of high-profile deaths caused by the crisis in UHL. This is not only distressing for the families left behind; it is also distressing to my constituents in Clare, some of whom have told me they would rather stay at home than risk going into a war-zone type situation. What immediate steps will the Government take, given that this crisis has continued since the 24-hour accident and emergency department at Ennis was closed in 2009?

I congratulate the Deputy on her election to the Dáil. I wish her well. She is right to highlight the issue of University Hospital Limerick. It is a major issue for her constituents and for people in the mid-west more broadly. I could quote figures showing the increased budget, the increased staffing and the increase in beds that have taken place, but I accept there is much more to do. That is why the previous Minister for Health, as the Deputy's colleague Deputy Cullinane will know, asked HIQA last year to lead a review into urgent and emergency care capacity in the mid-west region, including consideration of the need for a second ED. An interim update is expected this month. The final report is expected in May. That will guide the Government's next steps.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCeann Comhairle. Táim buioch di as mé a roghnú chun ceist a chur. She might indulge me for a few seconds as I take the opportunity to express my personal sympathies on the death of His Highness Prince Karim, the Aga Khan, who was a major investor in this country over many decades. He was the owner of many stud farms, he invested heavily in the bloodstock sector and generated much employment. He was a true altruist and peace promoter, and one of the most significant philanthropists I ever had the privilege of meeting in this world. I suggest the House joins with me in expressing sympathy to his family and the Ismaili Muslim community that he led.

He loved running on the Curragh. It is about the Curragh that I wish to put my question. Page 57 of the programme for Government commits the Government to a conservation plan and new management system for the Curragh. My colleague, the Minister, Deputy Martin Heydon, was most instrumental in ensuring that provision in the programme for Government. It is absolutely essential that it is actioned now. Year after year, we have seen incursions onto the Curragh where it has become a vast illegal holiday campsite. The cost of rehabilitating the place last year was €185,000, which is half the cost of our famous bike shed. It was a humiliation to me that I could do nothing to get the State agencies to resolve the problem. It must have embarrassed the Tánaiste that he could not. What is the timescale for the implementation of action so that we will not have incursions again this year?

I thank Deputy Ó Fearghaíl. It is good to see him back in his role of advocating for his constituents in Kildare South. I join with him in expressing sympathy to the family of the Aga Khan on his passing, and to the community he led. The Minister, Deputy Heydon, and I discussed this only yesterday. Tributes have been led by our President and throughout the country in acknowledging the huge philanthropic contribution of the Aga Khan. We think of him and his family at this very sad time.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of the Curragh, which will fall within the remit of my new ministerial responsibilities. I look forward to a visit to the Curragh at an early stage to meet with Oireachtas representatives from County Kildare to discuss what is a very urgent issue. It was brought up with me during the canvass in Kildare. I will meet with the Deputy on this issue.

Cork North-Central is where more than €35 billion is coming from Apple into the Exchequer. I raise the issue of the north ring road, which is north of the city. In the past two years, not one brown cent has been made available for the development of the strategic plan for the northside of Cork city. Funding has been provided for the distributor road, which is also important. The Tánaiste mentioned the capital programme. I ask that the north ring road is not excluded in view of the fact that not one cent has been provided for it in two years. That was at a time when three senior Cabinet people were based in Cork. I ask for the north ring road be included in the capital programme, that the money for the distributor road also be prioritised, and that the project be allowed to go ahead in the fastest possible timeframe.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It is not the first time that he has passionately raised the importance of the northern distributor road. The proposal was established in the Cork metropolitan area transport strategy, CMATS. It is seen as an absolutely essential or, in the words of the strategy, a "critical enabler" for its delivery. My understanding is that the road only emerged as a proposal in CMATS, which was finalised in 2020, and was therefore not part of the current national development plan. However, I assure the Deputy that I will work with him to seek its inclusion in the revised national development plan. I know how important it is to Cork, to the region and to investment.

The programme for Government commits the Government to work with the voluntary sector through industrial relations mechanisms and other processes to progress pay issues that affect the delivery of disability services and the long-term viability of organisations within the sector. We know that SIPTU is due to begin a ballot for strike action by up to 5,000 members working across 21 section 39 organisations. I raised this matter with the former Minister of State, Anne Rabbitte, last October, a year on from the pay agreement being reached at the Workplace Relations Commission and the Government's commitment to honour that, but nothing has happened in the meantime. We saw the treatment of section 39 workers take centre stage during the election campaign, thanks to Charlotte Fallon challenging the Tánaiste on the matter. At the time, he committed to prioritising the issue. Were those hollow words? What has been done in the meantime? Will the Government engage directly with the unions to urgently avert strike action?

Those words were clearly anything but what the Deputy has termed them. As she has rightly said, if the Deputy reads the programme for Government, and she referenced it, it commits the Government to working with the sector through the mechanisms that are available to progress the issues. As I said to her colleague Deputy Kerrane when she raised this matter, we have seen the interim agreement in October 2023. We have seen State agencies work with service providers to administer the associated pay funding adjustments. The fact is Departments offered a further 8.5% increase in funding for pay. When that is coupled with the October 2023 situation, it means that funding for pay will increase by 16.5% over three and a half years. Ministers will now seek an early opportunity to restart engagement with unions and employers through the Workplace Relations Commission. I appreciate the vital role that these workers play, but I also appreciate the number of people who depend on those services. I know the Deputy raised the matter in that spirit.

Last year, in advance of the election, Fianna Fáil made a huge play on prioritising women's health. That included free hormone replacement therapy, which was due to come in in January. This was very welcome at the time but, unfortunately, January came and went, and there is still no free HRT for women. There appears to be no plan for putting it in place. Will the Tánaiste let me know what the Government will do to make sure that commitment and promise is kept? When will women see that promise being kept?

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I know it has been a source of huge frustration, annoyance and anger for people who want to know when this will become available. Budget 2025 announced the intention to fund the medicine cost of hormone replacement therapy products prescribed to women to help to manage the symptoms associated with all stages of menopause. This is for women who have been prescribed HRT by their healthcare provider. It applies to those products reimbursable by the HSE. The measure is not intended to cover pharmacy or GP fees. The Department of Health engaged with both the HSE and the IPU regarding the practical roll-out of this measure.

That engagement is ongoing but I have spoken directly to the new Minister for Health, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, who is very determined to progress this. I will ask her to revert to the Deputy directly on a timeline.

The programme for Government commits to a review of the school transport scheme. The biggest obstacle within that scheme at the moment is the ban on drivers over 70. We have the ludicrous situation where such drivers cannot drive a minibus bringing ten pupils to school under the school transport scheme but later in the day they can drive a 72-seater bus full of children to the local swimming pool or on a bus tour to Dublin, Cork or Killarney. This is a crazy situation. Many of these drivers depend on this part-time work to supplement their pension income and operators are at their wits' end trying to recruit drivers. They have to let these people go when they reach 70. Once drivers pass the eyesight and medical tests, they should be allowed to continue.

I spoke to the Minister for Transport about this and I have a reply from the Department here. The Minister for Transport said that the Department is committed to carrying out an independent assessment on the feasibility of removing the exclusion of drivers over 70 years of age from the school transport scheme. The assessment is a medical test. It is very simple. I had it recently because I have a HGV and a bus licence. Once they pass it, that is it; they are fit to drive.

I must say I agree with the Deputy. This is a bizarre situation where somebody over the age of 70 can drive kids in a private bus to the soccer or GAA game at the weekend but cannot drive them to school in a Bus Éireann bus. It is either safe or it is not safe and the inconsistency in relation to this is quite farcical and annoying at a time when we are trying to get more drivers. I have raised this myself. I do not mean to say this in a way that infuriates the Deputy but it is, in the first instance, a matter for Bus Éireann. My colleague, the new Minister of State with responsibility for transport, intends to pursue this. There are people who are perfectly healthy and fit and well able to drive buses and the idea that they can drive any bus other than a Bus Éireann bus does not cut the mustard with me.

Since I met them during the general election campaign I have been advocating on behalf of four families, three with young children and infants, who are living in council maisonettes in my area in Sallynoggin. They are living in absolutely deplorable conditions. There is rodent infestation, black mould and damp running down the walls. One of the tenants told me this morning that there was ice inside because of the water running down the walls. These maisonettes have been earmarked for redevelopment but in the meantime the children and their families, for years now, have been sick. They have submitted letter after letter to the council asking to be urgently rehoused in appropriate accommodation. As we know from the Rialto case in Dolphin's Barn, it is a breach of their rights under the European Social Charter to be forced to live in these conditions. They should be moved and there should be a system of prioritisation for families with children when they are living in conditions that are making them sick and that are not fit for human habitation. Will the Tánaiste act on this?

If the Deputy sends the details to my office I will engage immediately with the Minister for housing in relation to that matter.

Housing is the single greatest issue facing my generation. I acknowledge that the delivery of housing units, particularly at scale, is the number one priority for this Government and rightly so. However, one of the biggest barriers to housing and the building of houses in north Tipperary and north-west Kilkenny is a lack of capacity in the water and wastewater infrastructure. In Cloughjordan, my own village, we cannot build a single house because there has been no capacity in the system for years. In Ballycommon, over the road from me, 32 houses could be built in the village but there is no capacity in the system to allow that to happen. Uisce Éireann must be willing to meet developers on site in areas like Ballycommon so that they can work collaboratively on planning permission and getting houses built as a matter of urgency. In areas such as Cloughjordan we need to see a determined and ambitious investment campaign from Uisce Éireann in infrastructure, with the full force of the State behind it, to ensure that work is undertaken in record pace if we are really to tackle the housing crisis. It is one thing putting in the investment, and we are all calling for that, but we need action urgently and we need the State to intervene.

I thank Deputy O'Meara and congratulate him on his election representing the people of Tipperary North. I wish him very well. The programme for Government contains a number of commitments in relation to this. The Deputy is right that housing is the biggest challenge that our country faces and it is the biggest priority that the Government intends to address. As he also rightly highlighted, there is a number of enablers to build housing. It is not just about housing construction capacity but also about water and wastewater treatment facilities. We are going to significantly increase the amount of money available to Uisce Éireann through the capital budgets that we will be allocating shortly. What we need to see in return is a willingness from Uisce Éireann to make sure that projects that are crucial to housing get the go ahead and that projects that might be seen as smaller in scale are also addressed. I will certainly write to the chief executive of Uisce Éireann about the projects Deputy O'Meara mentioned and ask him to meet with the Deputy.

As this is the first time I have spoken in the Dáil, I want to thank the constituents of Dublin Bay South and my family and friends for getting me here. The programme for Government contains a very clear commitment that the city centre task force report for Dublin will be implemented in full. Does the Tánaiste agree that we cannot police our way out of problems in Dublin city? We need to deliver a liveable city and give people reasons to come into the city centre. When does the Tánaiste expect the interdepartmental group charged with implementing the recommendations of the task force to report to the Government? When that group reports, does the Tánaiste expect it will include recommendations in relation to funding? If we cannot fund the recommendations, we cannot deliver on them.

I thank Deputy Geoghegan and congratulate him on his election to Dáil Éireann, representing the people of Dublin Bay South. I look forward to working closely with him. I want to thank him for the instrumental role he played in the Dublin city task force during his time as Lord Mayor and first citizen of Dublin. We have a really good piece of work now, with very clear recommendations and owners beside each of the recommendations. The Deputy is right that there is no one issue here. Of course, we need to do more on Garda numbers in the city and we are all committed to that but there are so many other things that need to be done to create the liveable city that we all want our capital city to be. The interdepartmental group that has been established to drive implementation first met on 23 October last year. It has met four times since then including, most recently, on Tuesday of this week. It will submit its report to the Government in due course. I will seek a further update for the Deputy on that. I absolutely expect that will require funding as well and the funding will be forthcoming.

Several times over the last number of years I have raised with the Tánaiste the need to fund the runway extension at Waterford Airport. As the Tánaiste knows, there is a reference in the programme for Government to making sure that this happens but the problem is that there is no certainty in relation to the funding and there are no specifics with regard to the timeframe. The people of Waterford, and particularly those who are in management positions in the airport, want the Government to be very clear and unequivocal that the funding that is needed will be made available, that there will be no more delays - we have had far too many of them - and that we will give the airport a fighting chance to be able to get commercial activity into the airport at long last. I ask the Tánaiste to give that commitment.

As the Deputy knows, I agree with him on this issue and I am supportive of this project. It could be a real enabler for the south-east region. The new Minister of State sitting beside me, Deputy Canney, is due to meet his officials in the coming days specifically on that issue. It is, as Deputy Cullinane fairly acknowledges, specifically referenced in the programme for Government. Once the Minister of State has had an opportunity to engage with his officials, I will ask him to engage with Waterford Oireachtas Members on the next steps.

Ireland has shown strong and compassionate leadership over the last year by pledging €20 million extra to UNRWA at a time when other key donors were withdrawing their support. I recognise the role that the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach played in swiftly pledging support for UNRWA last year. This funding has allowed the organisation to meet the urgent need of Palestinian refugees in Gaza for healthcare, food aid and emergency shelter. Given Israel's recent ban on and blacklisting of UNRWA and the growing challenges to humanitarian support worldwide, when the Taoiseach meets President Trump in March, will he ask the president to reverse his recent decision to end funding for UNRWA? Doing so would save lives and the Government's intervention here can make a difference.

I thank Deputy O'Gorman and wish him well in his new role over on that side of the House. I am proud of the work we did together in the last Government in terms of supporting UNRWA when other countries, as the Deputy rightly says, withdrew their support. I acknowledge the role that the Taoiseach played in increasing the level of funding that we were providing to UNRWA. As recently as this morning I spoke to officials in the Department of foreign affairs and trade about what more we can do to show, in a very demonstrable way, our commitment to UNRWA at this critical moment. I will not speak for the Taoiseach on this but I have no doubt that when he meets President Trump that he will, of course, raise Ireland's position in relation to all of these issues, including our steadfast support for UNRWA.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 1.40 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1 p.m and resumed at 1.40 p.m.
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