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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 18 Feb 2004

Special Olympics Ireland and AWARE: Presentation

I apologise for the delay but such is parliamentary life when a Bill is being passed and the committee may be interrupted again. We live in hope that we can deal with the important issues.

I welcome Mary Davis, CEO of Special Olympics Ireland, who has attended the committee before. I also welcome Geraldine Clare, CEO of AWARE, and her colleagues Frances O'Rourke and Deirdre Luby. We will discuss the issue of volunteers, focusing on two specific aspects, the Special Olympics and AWARE. The clerk has advised me that he is also a member of the board of directors of AWARE and would like to declare his interest. The witnesses will introduce themselves in the order they wish to speak and the committee will then comment and ask questions.

Ms Mary Davis

I am delighted to be back again, having been here a couple of times in the run up to the games. I am not as well dressed on this occasion as the games are over, but I am delighted to talk to you about the volunteer programme. It is a little less stressful on this occasion, with the games behind us. Nonetheless, I am delighted to attend to talk about the volunteer programme which was set up for the world games and the situation of all the volunteers since then. Should I deal with that now?

Yes, we would like to deal with the situation since the games, especially that of the 30,000 volunteers and your own plans for the immediate future.

Ms Davis

To give an overview, approximately 31,000 volunteers worked during the period of the games - some 11,000 worked in the host town programmes which operated around the country and some 20,000 were volunteers during the games, mainly in the Dublin area and also in Belfast. Some 1,000 volunteers were on a waiting list in case they were required and we were oversubscribed by 5,000. It was a 32-county recruitment process. There were also 540 international volunteers, who mainly came from EU countries in a process associated with the EU. There were also some full-time volunteers who gave their services free for about two years leading up to the games.

A programme organised with employers, the employer assisted volunteer programme, saw employers asked to give some free time to their employees to enable them to volunteer during the games. If the employee took X amount of time, employers were asked to give a matching amount. This programme was very successful because it gave us continuity in terms of time availability of volunteers and also in terms of the dates on which they could volunteer.

Another interesting aspect of the volunteer programme was the mentoring programme for people with learning disabilities who would have been athletes in the Special Olympics programme in Ireland but would not have qualified for the games. We offered them the opportunity, together with a mentor, to become involved as volunteers during the games. They were given additional training through the mentors and this programme was also very successful.

Since the games, some 7,000 of the 31,000 volunteers have said they wish to remain involved with the Special Olympics programme, a high percentage and certainly higher than Special Olympics Ireland would ever have experienced previously. Before the games, Special Olympics Ireland had approximately 1,000 volunteers involved in the programme. The huge interest which has now been generated is the legacy of the Special Olympics World Games. Under data protection legislation we are not allowed to publicise the list of volunteers to other organisations. However, when the games were over we wrote to the 31,000 volunteers to thank them for their efforts and to send them certificates of appreciation and indicated that there were, perhaps, organisations and agencies, including Special Olympics Ireland, which would like to avail of their services. We asked the volunteers to let us know if they were interested and they had then to complete another form for us. We are now just about to start the process of retraining such volunteers because the required training is slightly different from that for the world games.

We have set up a network around the country of community groups which were involved in hosting families in the Dublin area, the host town programme or as general volunteers at the games. The groups are being asked to form into committees, each of which will link itself with a community, town or area and will seek out people with learning disabilities not currently involved in the Special Olympics Ireland programme with a view to offering them the opportunity to become involved through the setting up of clubs in response to their needs. There are 22 Special Olympics sports and whatever sports people wish to become involved with, clubs will facilitate their needs within towns and areas, if there is demand. Our aim, objective and vision is that an opportunity will be provided at local level for any person with a learning disability who wishes to become involved in the Special Olympics programme over the next four years.

There are approximately 35,000 people with learning disabilities in Ireland, North and South. Of those, some 8,000 are involved with Special Olympics Ireland. We want to increase that number so that more are given an opportunity to participate, and this will be done through the network programme and through the use of the volunteers interested in staying involved in the post-games period.

That sums up the current position. Another important matter to arise out the world games was that many of the 31,000 volunteers had never before volunteered in any capacity. For many who had, this was the first time they were asked to participate in a training programme, which they said was important. While volunteers are an in-kind resource, a cost is involved in their training. For us, the cost worked out at approximately €25 per volunteer, which provided uniforms and training but excluded the cost of staff time, which also had to be paid for in terms of training, etc.

There was a drop-off rate of 20% before and a minimal drop-off rate during the games. The most important points in making volunteering work were: to ask, which seems a simple thing; to provide adequate training and give clear job descriptions, which was undertaken for every volunteer who worked with us; and to recognise the volunteers in various ways. They were not looking for financial recognition but the provision of the certificate, the newsletter, Heartbeat - Be at the Heart of the Games, which we distributed to volunteers and which they found to be a fantastic way of getting updates on the games, or simple thanks and to be told that we valued their contribution.

We were also in the fortunate position of being able to leave a lasting physical legacy at Dublin Castle, in the form of the logo sculpture and the surrounding benches on which we were able to place the names of every volunteer. This is a lasting legacy for families who can visit to see their names on the benches and it received very positive feedback from volunteers.

Ms Geraldine Clare

Thank you for inviting AWARE to present to the committee. My colleagues, Ms Frances O'Rourke and Ms Deirdre Luby, who is a volunteer with AWARE, will take the committee through the specific work they do within the organisation. To put the matter in context, the rate of suicide in Ireland continues to increase. Virtually every community has knowledge of some family which has been directly affected by suicide, which would not have been the case ten years ago. Overall, the rate of depression is increasing. We know that over 75% of those who die by suicide suffer from depression.

AWARE has been working since 1985 to defeat depression, yet the link between suicide and depression is not widely understood. I applaud the work of Ms Mary Davis for Special Olympics Ireland and of those in the field of physical and sensory disability. That field has gained much in the public mind in terms of the needs of those with such disabilities, and rightly so. Unfortunately for AWARE, depression is a much more hidden condition. The stigma surrounding mental illness is still very much an issue for those affected by it. Our work is to undo that stigma. Mental illness is still the unmentionable - we cannot talk about it or mention it in the workplace.

AWARE volunteers come largely from within the organisation - those who have been affected by depression, have benefited from what AWARE has to offer and have come back to offer their services and support to others. Ms O'Rourke and Ms Luby will now deal with the specific work of the organisation and I would then welcome any questions committee members may have.

Ms Deirdre Luby

I am the fund-raising officer with AWARE. Aware is a voluntary organisation, formed in 1985 by a group of interested patients, relatives and mental health professionals, the aims of which are to assist that section of the population whose lives are affected by depression. In the past 19 years, our organisation has grown considerably, which is due to our volunteers' commitment and support. Without volunteers, there would be no AWARE: our sevices depend entirely on volunteers in Dublin and throughout the country who give up their time and give of themselves every week without fail.

I will tell the committee about a couple of the services that we provide. In particular, I will talk about a helpline volunteer's role. AWARE operates a 24-hour, lo-call helpline, which last year took approximately 13,000 calls. Those calls can be from relatives or friends of somebody who may be experiencing depression or from people who are distressed and may be feeling suicidal. We are are also getting an increasing number of calls from victims of abuse. Those calls can take a lot of time and have to be dealt with extremely sensitively. Each volunteer on our helpline is asked to make a commitment to being available for one three-hour shift every week and also to doing one overnight shift every month. We aim to have the helpline open at all times and, at any given time, we have a live register of approximately 100 people who will cover the helpline and are always ready to help out in case of emergency or as the need arises, such as when a shift is short of a person.

Our volunteers are very involved in the ongoing development of our helpline and continuous training is high on our agenda. Our helpliners regularly deal with difficult calls and want to understand as much as possible about the situations with which they deal, so they are proactive in initiating training themselves. Training and recruitment of new volunteers is an ongoing task for AWARE.

Another high-prioirity service that we run is our Beat the Blues schools education programme. AWARE set up that initiative in response to the increasing suicide rate among young people, particularly young men in the 18 to 25 age group. The programme is aimed at students from transition year through to third level education and aims create an understanding and awareness of depression.

Last year, our schools education officers spoke to approximately 20,000 students. As part of the information session that we hosted for students, we showed a video of young people who are involved with AWARE and who went in front of the camera, told their stories and talked about their experience of depression. It was highly successful in getting across to young people the message that depression is a young person's illness, whatever they thought about it, and that the people on the video were young people who had gone through something that the students might be experiencing themselves. It was not easy for the young people to bare their souls in front of camera, but their contribution to the programme has gone a long way towards educating other young people about depression and suicide.

In my role as a fund-raising officer, I must talk about the commitment of our volunteers and organisers throughout the country to our daisy days, our national fund-raising event in September. Those people come out to help us year in, year out. They sell the daisy badges and are on every street corner in Ireland, which is what we aim for. Our daisy days raise consciousness about AWARE and the services that we provide but, most importantly, they are our main fund-raising event. Without the funds from our daisy days, we could not continue to do our work, so they are very important. The volunteers are little jewels and we treasure them because they go out and get the money for us.

In a moment, I will introduce you to Frances O'Rourke, who is a support-group facilitator. AWARE has a network of more than 60 support groups throughout the country. Those groups meet every week. Frances will be able to tell the committee about her experience of being a volunteer with AWARE. The services that I have mentioned are but a flavour of what AWARE is about. Our volunteers play the central role in our organisation and without their continued support and commitment there would be no AWARE.

I introduce you to Frances. She will explain who she is.

I have been involved with AWARE for nearly ten years. I first got involved as a relative, because my son developed bipolar disorder when he was only 15; he is now 26. I have been going to AWARE and getting tremendous support from it because I have another son who has a milder form of depression and a daughter who has panic attacks and anxiety.

I was a core member of AWARE for many years and accidentally kept missing the training session to become a facilitator because it always seemed to end up being on when I was going away somewhere. Eventually, two years ago, I became an AWARE facilitator. I started by facilitating for the relatives' group in St. Patrick's Hospital, which was interesting and satisfying. It is wonderful to be able to help people to help themselves. Facilitators do not give advice or get very involved. They are more like chairpersons; they sit in the meetings, mediate and get people to talk to one another and give one another advice.

After a time, I was shifted over to the young people's group in Trinity College, which I find very good because my children are now between 22 and 32 years old. Therefore, I can relate to the group. In that group, I see a lot. The group talks a lot about suicide, and hardly any of them have not had suicidal thoughts, even if they have not attempted suicide. Another thing that happens with young people, which does not happen as much with older people, is that they like injuring themselves; they cut themselves and seem to get relief from doing that.

The way that depression affects young people's careers is also dreadful. For instance, there are two medical students in the group. One is able to continue but the other, who was in third year, has dropped out; her illness is stopping her from completing her career training. Another group member is a psychology student and the same thing has happened with him. He says he is taking a year out, but he might never go back to it.

My son who has only a mild form of depression was doing engineering. He opted out with only one year left to do and nobody could talk him into going back to complete that year. He had never failed any examination but he could not face going into an examination hall because he was getting panic attacks.

I am sorry to interrupt you but I will ask for a couple of comments from members. Although I do not know whether everybody is under pressure of time, Ms Mary Davis is.

The Special Olympics story was moving and we were all involved in the games but Ms O'Rourke's story is moving and important. AWARE talked about schools and peer interaction and it is going about that work in the right way. It sounds like the two organisations are similar in that they have to ask for help before they get it and have to train people up. It sounds like each person needs a clear job description. Ms Frances O'Rourke's role might be different from Ms Deirdre Luby's but the two are complementary.

I have a question for Ms Mary Davis. You said that 7,000 volunteers were still involved in the Special Olympics programme and you offered other volunteering opportunities. Do you know whether people took those up?

Is there a profile for those who are likely to commit suicide, apart from the 18 to 25 age range? Do you have any information on whether, if a person is involved in sport or the arts, they are any more or less likely to commit suicide? That is a terribly pertinent issue, because over the weekend I became aware of two families who lost sons who were under 30. Given that the time is short, I will take just a couple of comments.

I congratulate Ms Davis on the tremendous success of the Special Olympics which reflected the whole national mood at the time. It demonstrated her organisational skills. While she got great help from everybody, including Government agencies, were it not for her leadership the Special Olympics would not have had the same impact and would not have been as successful. As one who has worked with people with special needs and continues to support the local school, I hope she will be able to maintain the momentum and keep that structure together because those people need so much help. Is it having an impact or is interest on the decline? Is Ms Davis confident that the interest will continue?

Last week there were two suicide cases in my county involving two young women whom I knew. Is there an active group in Kerry? I could help in the setting up of such a group as I was involved in setting up Friends of the Suicide Bereaved in Tralee some years ago.

I welcome the four ladies, particularly Ms Davis. I congratulate her on her magnificent achievement and on all the accolades she has so deservedly received since the Special Olympics. On a housekeeping point, I find it unsatisfactory that having invited the delegation, in their own time, to make a presentation to us for our benefit - it is nothing personal on the part of anybody here - it is a discourtesy to them that we are forced to deal with their presentations which are so worthwhile in this way. I ask that it be put on the agenda for our next meeting in order that we try to do something about it.

I agree with the Deputy.

I compliment the delegation on the wonderful work being done for those who are depressed and the lonely who have someone to turn to in their hour of need. I thank the delegation for that work.

Arising from my comment, I believe we should stay. I do not know what the ruling of the House is——

We are not having a family row here. I know they do not appreciate our doing this but in this context it would be better to do it. I know Ms Davis is under serious pressure in terms of time. Does Deputy English wish to address any specific point?

I congratulate Ms Davis on a job well done. We will probably call on her with questions and may have to seek her ideas and advice on certain issues.

Ms Davis

On the question of the follow-up, apart from those who come back directly to us, we do not know what happens to the others. Hopefully, they have had a positive experience in terms of their volunteer experience with the games and that they will go on to volunteer in other areas. For us, in Special Olympics Ireland, we would not have the resources to write out again and ask them what they are doing and to process those replies because obviously that requires a great deal of effort on behalf of people working in the organisation.

Ms Davis said earlier that 7,000 came back to her and said they wanted to be involved in Special Olympics. Has a tally been kept of those who said they had been involved with Special Olympics and would like to do something else?

Ms Davis

No. Anybody who came back to us specifically wanted to come back to Special Olympics.

There is a push on in regard to having an overall structure for volunteerism. I note that the existing model for volunteering overseas has been changed. Does Ms Davis agree with the idea that volunteerism, whether at home or abroad, for Special Olympics, AWARE, or the local GAA team, should be under one umbrella?

Ms Davis

I think it would be better to have it all under the one umbrella and would be much more productive and useful rather than separated out. Anything done in a co-operative way, rather than in a singular way, is better.

What about keeping up the momentum of the Special Olympics for people with special needs? Is that happening at present?

Ms Davis

: Absolutely, that is happening. After the games, a roadshow went around the country thanking all those who got involved. All the venues in each country that we visited were packed. We were here in Dublin where there was not a host town programme but 2,000 regular people who had volunteered for the games came to Trinity, over four sessions. That was a huge number of people to come back after the games on a cold frosty Saturday morning.

Are there programmes in place? I mention particularly Nano Nagle special school, Listowel, because it is the local school with which I am familiar, where the Special Olympics are sending in facilitators to work with those children. Are there are any similar type programme?

Ms Davis

: That is what we are moving towards.

Ms Davis

The roadshow would have gone around about November-December and in early January in Dublin. Directly after the games there was a three to four month period when a huge amount of tidying up had to be done. We went into the roadshow straight away and created a strategy going forward for Special Olympics Ireland. We have sent out expressions of interest to all those who came to the roadshow which they filled in. We then go into those communities, set up a committee and visit schools, such as Nano Nagle special school, and ask what clubs they would like. They are then set up at local level. It is about communities at local level helping local people with learning disabilities to participate in sport.

By the time 16 June arrives, which is just a year from the time all the athletes arrived here, I would expect to see a good deal of progression in that area. What the Deputy has asked about is what we are in the processing of establishing.

It would be an advantage if practitioners could be put into those schools, but perhaps that is too far-fetched for a few hours per week. There is nobody there to do the job at present.

Ms Davis

That is what we are moving towards. I would see putting in practitioners in terms of physical education as coming within the remit of the Department of Education and Science. What we can do is put volunteers in place, train them and set up Special Olympics clubs. That enhances what should already be carried out in the schools and under the Department of Education and Science.

Obviously, from our point of view, finance is always an issue. The ambitious strategy and programme that is set out now in Special Olympics Ireland will cost over €3 million per year. Of that we get €300,000 through the Irish Sports Council from the Government. That sum will need to be increased to match our output in terms of the programme we have set out for the next four years.

Coming back to AWARE, I was listening to the "Marian Finucane Show" this morning which had gone into a particular school where girls talked about going to the swimming pool. Even though they were skinny, they thought they were fat. Some did not like their ribs. Others did not like their legs, their feet or their hair. What was interesting was their concept that everybody was watching them and that everybody was interested in what they were doing. They could understand fellas not being able to talk to each other about it because, if they did, they would be classified as too interested in themselves or gay or some other label. That was fascinating. It re-emphasises the point that the only way one can get at people - it was the same with the anti-smooking lobby in America - is through peer interaction.

I believe AWARE is on the right path in that regard but have you thought about the artistic-sporting aspect? I am aware that many of the problems associated with suicide in north Belfast are accredited to the fact that people have had too many unhappy experiences and not a sufficient number of sporting facilities to allow them pursue sport. Do you want to comment on that?

Ms Clare

I will take that question. It would be simplistic to say lack of sports facilities causes suicide. Suicide is quite complex in any situation and with any individual but within AWARE we know there are three significant factors that play a part in a suicide.

The first is loss, or perceived loss. That can mean different things to different people. What we perceive as a loss depends on early life experience and other factors. Another factor is depression, another psychiatric illness or perhaps a combination - schizophrenia, anxiety or other disorder - and also alcohol or street drugs. Alcohol is a particular factor in Ireland. The combination of those three usually plays a part in a suicide. As I said earlier, our difficulty is in the understanding that depression is an illness, that it is treatable and that if it goes untreated it may end in suicide. Suicide is often the result of depression untreated.

Sports activities, good diet, etc., have a role to play in positive mental and physical health but it is simplistic to say a sports facility will alleviate suicide. There are other factors, some of which were touched on by the Chairman, including peer pressure, how we see ourselves and our role in society and even aspects like our spiritual dimension. Religion is less a factor in society now; some of the stalwart measures and old reliables we had have changed and our society is changing very much, particularly among our young generation who are at the coal-face of change. They are very much the people who feel the pressure of change and the need to do well in school.

Depression is very high among students who are at the cutting edge, and AWARE has researched this area. They feel the change and the peer pressure in that one needs to look right, not have spots, have the latest mobile phone and the Nike tag on one's shirt. These pressures are coming on that age group in so many different and subtle ways and they are picking up all these messages throughout. Many may feel they do not meet that standard and if they have a sense of loss or something they can internalise back on themselves, it becomes a much more onerous burden.

Depression is so unacceptable as an illness. It is under-treated. It is very hard for somebody to go to a doctor and say, "I do not feel well. I do not feel good about myself. I do not feel I am the same as Johnny who sits beside me. It's okay for Mark. He looks okay. He does not have spots or hair my colour. I did not get picked for the football team." Sport is good but it is very much about winners and losers. It is fine if one is picked for the football team and one is the Van Nistelrooy of the Premiership but it is not so good if one is not picked. Sport has a role to play but we need to look at the broader picture in terms of the winners and losers, the socio-economic factors and the messages that are going out to young people and all of us in society before we can seek to address the issue.

What I am thinking of in terms of sport is the ability to express oneself. As a musician I am aware that when I get into what I would call a depressive mode - clinically, other people would not call it that - I have found myself playing a piano for an hour and then I realise where I am and what I am doing. That is my form of release. It was in that context that I mentioned sport.

Ms Clare

Where the confusion arises, and the Chairman may have hit on it because she referred to getting into a depressive mode, is what we all call depression because it is Monday and we wish it was Friday, or we are just back from our holidays and we are in bad form. The depression we are talking about is a clinical illness where somebody has a set number of symptoms we have listed - sleeplessness, lack of energy and so on for a period of two weeks or more without any relief. We are talking about two different things, and that might be what causes much of the general public misunderstanding because "Snap out of it" tends to be the response. We can all snap out of the Monday morning feeling but we cannot snap out of clinical depression, and the two are different, but the word probably causes the confusion.

I want to answer the question about Kerry. We have support groups in Tralee, Killarney, Listowel and Duhallow. I realise Duhallow is in Cork but I think of it as Kerry because it serves a good many people in Kerry.

I know the few people in Listowel. Going back to the whole idea of sport, people should be educated in how to engage in recreation but, unfortunately, physical education in schools is very much at the bottom of the curriculum agenda. People do not realise that a good run or swim might make them feel better. The Chairman was talking about sport in a general way. If people can go for a swim, a run or a walk and if they know that being active can relieve depression, it will help but unfortunately many young people do not realise that.

I was on a football team at one time and four of the people on that team committed suicide. That is why I was involved in setting up the group in Tralee at that time. I have a photograph of the players on our team, four of whom committed suicide. That is the other aspect of sport but we can all cite examples of cases of suicide and, as legislators, we have to become far more aware of the problem and perhaps be more proactive rather than reactive.

Perhaps we can examine possible ways of introducing more philosophy into the school curriculum because people appear to have abandoned religion and God in some cases. There is less philosophy and more commercialism in society now than was previously the case. We are a very consumer orientated society and many of these problems arise from lack of self-esteem and the pressure on people to achieve in life, look better, etc., all of which was referred to by Ms Clare. People are under continuous pressure and the fact that we are wealthier is bringing its own pressures.

The work of AWARE is very important but, as legislators, because we give so much attention to many other everyday matters we are probably not sufficiently aware of the consequences of what is happening in society. I realise the representatives came here to talk about volunteerism but their presentation on depression is very important. We should discuss the subject more frequently.

It is worth mentioning that the real answer to the problem is encouraging people to express themselves and to talk.

Ms Clare

Yes.

I am not an expert but it can be as simple as that. I compliment Deputy Neville in this respect because when I was a member of the health committee he and I attended a conference in Slovenia on the issue of suicide at which the question of support for those who find the victims of suicide arose. This is a major issue to be tackled and I know that the first question asked following a suicide is, "Why did we not see the signs? He was in great form." People cannot understand the reason for the suicide because it often occurs after a "high" the night before. I have gone through the reasons these suicides occur but we should try to create more opportunities to allow people to speak. In regard to sport, if one is a member of a team, there is a chance that one could be encouraged to speak about a problem. A small problem in one's mind can become a massive problem if one does not have a chance to speak to somebody about it.

Ms Clare

That is true.

If AWARE did not exist, is there much support for family members who have suffered following the suicide of a family member or for a person who found the person who committed suicide or is the level of intervention and support given to persons following the event given only by health board services? I am aware it is a matter for families as to whether they want to reach out and whether they know a family member has a problem and there are different levels in that respect. In other words, if AWARE is taken out of the picture, are there other support groups?

Ms Clare

There are some other charities and the Samaritans. For those affected following a suicide, there is a suicide bereavement group. Its members have done great work and the group is a voluntary body. It does not operate throughout the whole country but it quite widely available, although there are gaps.

Throughout the health service, and the mental health service in particular, there are great gaps. The service available depends on where one lives. For example, Frances mentioned young people harming themselves. When they turn up at accident and emergency departments having slit their wrists or whatever, there is no follow-up to the psychiatric services. That is a huge gap because self-harming is a cry for help. Many people who self-harm do so repeatedly and eventually die by suicide. If we were even to examine that problem straight away within the services, there is a gap in that regard which could be plugged by referral to follow-up services. If a person who has self-harmed has shown up at a department, that person should be put on a remedial programme which would examine his or her psychiatric health and pattern in taking alcohol or street drugs, whether the person has a dependency in that regard. However, we seem to know more about alcohol dependency and depression. Often those two problems are not examined jointly; either one or other is examined and then it is boxed.

That point is related to a point made at a meeting of the committee on the last occasion the Minister of Social and Family Affairs was present, namely, that the national drugs strategy deals with drugs only and not with alcoholism.

Ms Clare

Yes.

I assume what you are telling us loud and clear is that——

Ms Clare

It does not deal with depression.

——this problem should be dealt with under the health strategy.

Ms Clare

Sometimes one problem masks the other, particularly in the case of depression. Sometimes people treat the problem with alcohol. They have a few drinks if they feel down, then they are further down and they have a few more drinks. It is a snowballing downwards spiral.

Your presentation has been important. We have nearly crossed the boundary into the remit of the Department of Health and Children but we are all public representatives and all have interests in these aspects. I congratulate you on the work you are doing. I hope we will complete a report on volunteerism. If we can move on with the current work, we will open up a debate on volunteerism because we prioritised it last year as one on which we wish to move forward and address.

Ms Clare

In regard to volunteers, because of the nature of the work done by such groups as Ms O'Rourke facilitates or by the volunteers who operate the helpline, perhaps every week there are people who come along to the group and confide in the volunteers, who know they are suicidal. A volunteer may take the worry of how such a person is, particularly if he or she does not come along the next week. Earlier today I met some colleagues who work down the country, and we are conscious of the need to protect volunteers from such worry. They take on the responsiblity and worry in regard to the person concerned.

The helpline operator may get a call from a person who is suicidal and put down the phone at the end of his or her slot, go away for the weekend and wonder if that person made it through the weekend. The volunteer may wonder if such a person will call back the next night and, if the volunteer is on duty, whether he or she will get the call or the volunteer may wonder who the person is. There is a stress in that and the volunteer takes on that level of responsiblity. It is a heavy weight for a volunteer to carry. It is great that we can all volunteer, wear the tee-shirt and buoy ourselves up with a level of energy, but this type of volunteering role is quite different. People give at a much more profound level - I refer to the work people like Ms O'Rourke do for AWARE week in, week out.

A point that arose in the conference in Slovenia was that far more people were involved and needed support from somewhere else. At the end of the day many people need a cuddle.

My question is related to this issue. There are different levels of volunteerism that bring different responsibilities. It is much easier to be a volunteer on a tidy towns committee rather than a volunteer in AWARE. If one is dealing with people with complex psychiatric problems, one would nearly need to have completed a course in psychology or whatever. Does Ms Clare consider that the volunteers need more training than an ordinary volunteer as the work they do is more challenging? Such volunteers have a major responsiblity because what they say to a person could do more harm than good. The type of volunteer AWARE has and needs must be a responsible person who would need to be very much aware that he or she is dealing at times with people who are highly sensitive, going through a very bad period in their lives and that how they deal with that person's issue or problem could affect that person's life. Volunteers have a major responsiblity.

Ms Clare

That is true. We have a training programme, which we have to constantly update and develop it. The support programme for volunteers is one on which we constantly work.

Do a high percentage of the volunteers give of their time because of experiences they have had with regard to depression or whatever, or do most volunteers arrive out of the blue because they want to be a volunteer with AWARE? Could Departments do more to help with the education and training of volunteers and courses AWARE provides? I am sure that is the area where most of the organisation's costs are incurred. Perhaps the Government, through some schemes in place, could help AWARE in this regard in the long term.

Ms Clare

We have specifically devised our training for the way in which AWARE is a non-referral, non-directive service. We are there as a listening, confidential service and operate in the mode of providing peer support in the support groups. The helpline is similar but there is no peer involvement. The Chairman mentioned the importance of being able to express one's feelings. It provides indirect counselling, a listening ear and allows people to express and accept their feelings, whether the depression affects them or a close family member. We have developed and deliver that training programme. The development and delivery of the training programme is largely done by volunteers but one or two members of staff are involved in it.

The volunteers take calls and listen to people's issues but as Ms Clare said when they go home they carry with them what has happened. Do they require more training on how to deal with that?

Ms Clare

Yes, training in a way. We have support in place for them but we are aware of the issue. We are always trying to develop such support to see if we can deal with it better and we have become increasingly aware of it. While our helpline might not receive as many calls as in the past, the calls are longer and people are more hurt. The calls are more onerous and people are generally more depressed when they come to us now.

I know volunteers who work with Childline whose work dealing with children is along the same line as the work of AWARE. The volunteers working with Childline are not allowed to discuss the case they have dealt with. I can understand that requirement if a volunteer was to name the person concerned but I find it strange that a volunteer cannot discuss the content of a call because it is good to spread the word in that regard. Until I spoke to people who worked with Clhildline, I did not know what they were doing or how bad things were. If I did not drag the information out of them, I would never have found out about it. They were breaking their own code of conduct by telling me some of the stories. Is the position the same in AWARE?

Ms Clare

The calls are confidential but where, for example, the helpline people met, one of the volunteers would say that he or she had a caller who described a situation where something happened. In saying that, the volunteer is not breaching any confidentiality because we do not use names and addresses. The caller does not have to give a name, although he or she may give a first name, but we do not even know from where the person is calling. We do not log because it is strictly confidential. Helpline volunteers have regular monthly meetings, where they have a forum for discussion. It is really a training and support mechanism and if they are having difficulty with something or in a particular area, they can discuss what a caller said. I believe it is the same for the facilitators. If a situation arose in a group, it can be discussed without any breach of the personal details.

If you did not do that, you would be carrying many of those stories over the weekend and you would be gravely worried. I congratulate you and the clerk involved. A small number of Deputies in the Dáil are seriously committed to dealing with the issue of suicide. I apologise to Frances for interrupting her. I hope she does not feel insulted. I also thank Deirdre for her contribution. If issues arise, particularly for the volunteers, or there is some aspect in which we can get involved, do not hesitate to contact the committee. Thank you.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.45 p.m. sine die.
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