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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Mar 2006

National Drugs Strategy: Presentation.

As part of the joint committee's ongoing work on its report into the inclusion of alcohol in the national drugs strategy, I am pleased to welcome a delegation from the White Oaks Centre in Donegal. I declare an interest as the centre is located in my local area where it is held in high regard. I also welcome Dr. Conor Farren from St. Patrick's Hospital, Dublin. The delegation will address the issue of alcohol treatment services.

The previous national drugs strategy was driven by the need to address the problem of heroin use. It explicitly excluded alcohol on the basis that tackling the drugs problem should not be diluted by including a soft drug such as alcohol. Having passed the mid-point of the strategy, the joint committee considers it important to compile a report setting out the reasons for including alcohol in the next one. The evidence presented to the committee to date indicates that alcohol is one of the most abused drugs in the country and that drugs and alcohol should no longer be regarded as separate problems. The committee was pleased to receive a delegation from Women's Aid two weeks ago and welcomes the delegation of practitioners who can outline their experiences on the ground in urban and rural settings. I invite Dr. Farren to make his presentation first, followed by Fr. Carlin. We will then open up the discussion for comments.

Dr. Conor Farren

I thank the joint committee for the honour of inviting me to appear before it. I am a consultant psychiatrist at St. Patrick's Hospital and chairman of the addiction faculty of the Irish College of Psychiatrists.

I will make three main points. First, alcohol abuse is rampant in Ireland and getting worse. Second, options for the treatment of alcoholism are limited and the disorder appears to be one for which no comprehensive plan for the development of treatment in the future is in place. Third, alcoholism is eminently treatable and investment in treatment can produce significant benefits. At St. Patrick's Hospital we have a 30 year history of treating alcoholism. I will present some statistics to prove just how successful that treatment can be, even for the most complicated patients.

How bad are alcohol problems in Ireland? Unfortunately, they are very bad and worsening. I will provide shocking, readily available and verifiable statistics on the problem. Irish people consume vast quantities of alcohol, above and beyond what is normal in Europe, including the United Kingdom. In 2001 we drank 14.4 litres of pure alcohol per head of adult population, the second highest figure in the 25 EU member states. The equivalent figure in the United Kingdom was 8.5 litres, which is closer to the European norm. While the figure declined slightly to 13.5 litres in 2002, we retain our pre-eminent place in the European league table.

Alcohol consumption has increased by a staggering 40% in the ten years to 2003. This is unprecedented in Irish history, runs counter to the overall European trend and is unique in the world. Essentially, we went from a nation of normal drinkers to alcohol abusers in this ten year period. The reasons for this increase are varied and include an increase in disposable income, increased laxity in licensing laws and the granting of licence extensions, lack of enforcement of existing licensing laws and restrictions and significant expenditure and marketing by the drinks industry, particularly to young people. The industry has been very successful in this regard.

This increase in alcohol consumption has had many negative consequences, not least an increase in the suicide rate of 44% over the same ten year period. A significant part of this rise is attributable to drinking, particularly binge drinking among young men. Previously, I had the privilege of making a presentation to the Joint Committee on Health and Children on research we had conducted into the association between suicide and alcohol consumption. Unfortunately, there appears to be a very high correlation between the two, notably between suicide and a recent increase in binge drinking among young men.

Ireland has the highest incidence of binge drinking in Europe among men and, increasingly, women. In 2002 we spent €6 billion on alcohol, or €2,000 per head of adult population per annum. In 2002 the World Health Organisation said alcohol was the third highest cause of disease in Europe, causing 9.2% of the disease burden, second only to tobacco and blood pressure. It is a major cause of health problems. It is important to note that alcohol causes five times the health damage caused by illicit drugs. In Ireland, alcohol-related costs ran at €2.65 billion in 2003, which sum accounts for the loss of earnings due to alcohol, alcohol-related crime and violence, road deaths due to alcohol and direct treatment costs.

How big is the problem on the ground? The Irish College of General Practitioners studied the general practice population and found that 19% of those randomly screened were drinking hazardously — 29% male and 12% female. A recent study identified that, on a given day in a Dublin general hospital, 27% of ordinary patients had alcohol use disorders and 33% had recently been binge drinking. Those who are drinking make it into health service statistics because of the associated problems. A conservative estimate for Ireland is that 5% of the population are alcohol-dependent and a further 7% are alcohol-abusive, which suggests that there are 200,000 alcoholics in Ireland, and a further 280,000 who are alcohol-abusive. We do not have exact figures because they have never been compiled.

The report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals of 2003 suggests that 6% of admissions to psychiatric hospitals were for alcohol problems, which means a total of 1,495 patients were treated for alcohol problems therein. There was also outpatient treatment in the public health service. The figures for the number treated are staggeringly different from those pertaining to the amount of need. If there had been 200,000 people with breast cancer in the country and 1,495 had been treated in public hospitals at the time in question, there would have been an outcry. However, because alcoholism is in question, and because it is to some extent hidden and not talked about, we get away with massive differences in the provision of treatment.

St. Patrick's Hospital has run an alcohol and chemical dependence programme for up to 40 years. In 2003, the programme was supplemented with a dual diagnosis programme, incorporating treatment of patients with alcohol or addiction problems as well as psychiatric problems such as depression. People in this category are particularly hard to treat because they incorporate two problems rather than one.

The programme incorporates a number of different models of treatment. It includes an Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, approach and encourages patients to engage in AA treatment while in hospital. It also incorporates a variety of different approaches, including relapse prevention and "reality" therapy. There is significant emphasis on patient education, with lectures by consultant psychiatrists and educational videos. Reading material is also provided. A significant proportion of time is spent in therapy sessions, which include individual therapy sessions and group sessions with other patients and a therapist.

Generally, the programme involves an inpatient programme that lasts for five weeks. The first component of this is alcohol detoxification, which can take up to five days. The second phase includes assessment for the programme and the patient provides informed written consent to participate — it is entirely voluntary. The patient then enters the programme and it is adjusted according to his or her needs. There is access to support staff, including psychologists, social workers, occupational therapists and dieticians, as well as constant supervision by the psychiatrist. Family involvement is highly encouraged and at least one family meeting is arranged during a patient's stay. Following discharge, one attends aftercare group sessions, initially on a weekly basis, and also a weekly lecture. This is in addition to family support. Psychiatric follow-up is also encouraged, if required.

The dual diagnosis programme is developed as a supplement to the aforementioned programme. Over the past ten years, St. Patrick's Hospital staff recognised the considerable needs of the cross-over population, including those who suffer from depression or bipolar disorder as well as alcoholism and other addictions. Of approximately 400 patients treated for addiction at St. Patrick's Hospital last year, 200 were treated through the dual diagnosis programme, of whom 110 were treated for depression and alcoholism and 90 for bipolar disorder and alcoholism. We recently completed a long-term follow-up on the patients treated under the dual diagnosis programme and found that, three months after discharge, 70% remained completely sober, with the depression group slightly more abstinent than the bipolar group, that is, 78% versus 64%. This is far above the international norm pertaining to the treatment of this particularly difficult group. Those who drank did so significantly less than prior to admission, with a decrease in the number of drinking days from 45% to 14%, and a decrease in the number of drinks per day from an average of 12 to five. The depressed group did slightly better than the bipolar group.

There was a significant reduction in levels of depression in both the bipolar and depressed groups on follow-up by comparison with baseline data. In the bipolar group there was also a significant reduction in agitation and bipolarity. There was a very significant fall in the level of alcohol craving in both groups and, very importantly, a significant improvement in the results of liver function tests in both groups. The six-month follow-up showed that all the improvements were maintained.

Foreign research has shown that treatment for addictions can save €7 for every €1 spent thereon. This saving can be from diminished health costs associated with the medical complications of the addiction, decreased psychiatric treatment for other disorders and decreased use of medical services in general. Other research conducted in general practice has shown that as little as €100 per treated patient, which is the approximate cost of two therapy sessions, can reduce the number of alcohol abusers in a general practice setting by 20%.

The problem in question is considerable and the treatment provisions we have available are extremely modest considering the population needs. Treatment can be very effective. Alcoholism is not a hopeless condition by any manner or means. Treatment can be sustained and can produce enormous benefits.

Fr. Neal Carlin

I am director of the White Oaks Centre, which I founded in 2001. Sharon McMullen is the general manager and Tommy McCay is the secretary. I thank the committee for inviting me.

I was very impressed by many of the national statistics outlined by Dr. Farren. Our own report, Portrait of our Drinking, produced in June 2004 by the former North Western Health Board, bears out similar figures. Perhaps it is a little different because the statistics were gleaned in a rural area. The problem is certainly increasing and the need for the Government and all others involved to adopt a cross-disciplinary approach is certainly very real. If we do not face the crisis, it will become worse in the future. We have been doing so to some extent. The riots of last Saturday were not just associated with sectarianism or bigotry because we recognised that many of the facial expressions of those involved, as shown in the photographs of the events, were those of persons in treatment for alcoholism.

We belong to the Columbanus Community of Reconciliation, a lay community founded in 1981. It started in a bombed and burnt-out site that used to belong to the RUC. We renovated it and I asked for time out from the diocese to engage in the project. We had been visiting Long Kesh prison twice a week for seven years between 1979 and 1986 and consequently we know what is happening in Ireland, by and large. We had good results at our centre and then we opened another, St. Anthony's Retreat Centre, which is right on the Border. I live there on a little farm, which was very difficult to negotiate my way out of today because of the snow. Many have attended this centre since its foundation. I was once asked by a priest in Derry whether it was a travel agency for Sinn Féin because so many people went there as refugees having been excommunicated from the population of Derry — those were the days. We then realised there was a major problem with alcohol in the area. Following negotiations with the North Western Health Board, we opened a €4 million purpose-built centre on the Donegal side of the Border. I have been a priest for 40 years, working in both Britain and Ireland, and this is the most difficult and fulfilling work with which I have been involved. It is great to see those who have been destroyed by alcoholism and their families recovering.

The mission statement details how we provide a safe, supportive and abstinent environment where the client is at the centre of the programme of recovery, along with therapeutic support for family members. Our programme is based on the Minnesota model, with Hazelden trained councillors operating the 12 step model for recovering alcoholics. This is the AA model found in most parishes around the country. It involves one to one counselling and group therapy where the person is meant to find the truth, because the truth sets you free, although it takes disclosure and freedom from denial.

The Irish Sea and the Atlantic Ocean should be seen as the perimeters of our treatment problem if we are to take this problem seriously and deal with the denial about it. Socially this is seen as a weekend problem but the binge and heavy drinking that are sadly part of Irish culture form the backdrop against which many alcoholics have developed, with numbers increasing to a huge degree. There must be a moral examination of our values, over and against the good work done by economic success in providing employment and an economically viable society. There are other values we must take seriously if we are to address the problem in therapeutic centres and the country as a whole.

We place great store on meditation because our surveys show that if someone reaches the third step of AA, where he or she is in touch with his or her higher power, whatever that power might be, there seems to be a breakthrough in ability to lead an integrated, satisfied life, an ability he or she did not have prior to that. People first admit they are powerless to overcome their addiction, then admit there could be a power greater than the self to do something about it and then hand over their life on a daily basis. We emphasis meditation and have enjoyed remarkable success rates. A professional socialist and statistician from the health board is sussing out our results over the past five years. We are reluctant to announce figures but we are excited about the progress and the evidence we have that people have been helped.

Lectures on the 12 steps are part of our programme. There are also therapeutic duties, because we live on a large farm, including bog wood carving, and 15 volunteer women teach Celtic crafts and furniture restoration. Some people at the centre go out and drink while some people stay in. There is a second programme in place where we employ people who are not capable of going out on FÁS and Pobal schemes. Rehabilitation was good when people could be sent out to a normal society but what if society is not normal? What if society needs to be healed, if it requires the application of the principles of treatment we apply to victims of alcohol and drugs?

There is a two year programme of aftercare. People return and form other groups in Counties Donegal and Sligo where they follow up on the treatment they got — there are trained facilitators for this. There are also five people in long-term rehabilitation that is not paid for by the health board.

On funding, we read about large amounts allocated to drugs in the newspapers but voluntary contributions are vital, such as people paying monthly contributions by standing order. The local health board has been exceptionally helpful to us, it has been the best in the country in terms of helping to tackle the problem. It pays for medical card holders, of whom there is a disproportionate number given that we cover Sligo, Leitrim and Donegal where there are problems with poverty that do not exist in other parts of the country. We also have two private patients. Donegal County Council contributes €50 per head per week.

The gender breakdown of those seeking treatment is 65:35 male to female and the addictions treated include dual diagnosis. I met Deputy Noel Ahern who was meeting the regional drugs task forces. I pointed out that out of the random sample I had questioned, almost all of the young men were on drugs and drink. Dublin may be unique in terms of the drug problem and I understand it is important to deal with cocaine and heroin but, by and large, the real problem is still alcohol and most alcoholics between 25 and 35 are dually addicted.

The gaps in service that exist for us are the need for additional councillors for the long-term after-care group and family services. Families suffer and on a Wednesday, the family gets a chance to say to the client what they have been through and this is therapeutic for them. Until recently families have been encouraged to say nothing and to pretend the problem does not exist, that there is no pain or violence at home. This presents families with the opportunity to have their say and we encourage them to go to Al-Anon meetings which we hold. Family programme and extra counselling costs are broken down in our presentation.

There are ten or 12 residential treatment centres like ours in Ireland. They are founded by religious orders, like the Columban community in the diocese of Derry, to which I belong. These people have been pioneers in education and health in the past and were the first to open residential treatment centres. Do the religious feel they can contribute something in this field as a result of the spiritual awakening that seems necessary to the person who is seeking help? A belief in the higher power generally means a return to religious practice, with truth and respect for others. As church attendance around the country declines there has been a corresponding increase in the consumption of alcohol. The figure of 50% is not accurate. There has been a 41% increase in the consumption of alcohol in eight years.

I am part of the regional drugs task force and the alcohol task force in the north west. For all its good work the drugs task force is still at the point of requesting that agencies such as the health board, FÁS, An Pobal and the VEC be the agencies through which we can distribute the funds.

I have a suggestion that might also interest Dr. Farren. If we are serious about getting to the heart of the matter and wish to use our resources with as little bureaucracy as possible, the Government body should appoint a liaison officer or ombudsperson to visit each of the residential treatment centres and offer financial support for initiatives such as I have mentioned. It would be a simple way of cutting the red tape. As voluntary groups we spend too much time filling in forms and applying for funding, justifying ourselves day after day. I watch with some frustration as health board expenditure in other areas is not used as effectively as we might use it.

There are many meetings and much chat but little action. How can we move from the talking shop to the action shop to help practitioners like those of us here today? By all means monitor the centres but at least show appreciation and respect for the voluntary sector while it still operates in an increasingly mercenary society. The voluntary founders and people running these centres are treated as if they are less professional than statutory groups. We are not. We are qualified people. It is as if the concept of voluntarism has harmed us and we are not treated with the respect due to professional people who run their centres in a highly professional way.

I have some extracts from a report of the north west alcoholic forum produced in May 2004 but will not go into them because they are covered by the figures produced here today. These extracts show the effects of drinking. There are many other points I could make which may come up in the discussion, for example the loss of days of work.

In the north west 900 people have been admitted to Letterkenny General Hospital and to the Sligo hospital in one year. That amounted to 1,700 beds taken. If this problem were tackled throughout the nation the Minister for Health and Children would not have a bed shortage. We should treat the problem of alcoholism as seriously as cigarette smoking. Taxes could be raised much higher than they have been raised since the report issued by the former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin. We must study the disruption to family life and see what we need to do to counteract the breakdown of marriage and the serious effect of alcoholism on children. Housing then becomes an issue — when a marriage breaks down the family needs two houses instead of one.

Is there a political will to face the reality that the Celtic tiger has the mechanism to bring itself down as the Roman Empire did? There is decadence in the society and it is time we all came together on this. Sadly, the church has half lost its nerve. I do not lose mine when I get a chance to speak about moral decadence. We need a spiritual revival, not just draconian legal responses to this problem. Curtailing opening hours on a Thursday night to 11.30 p.m. is fine, and I agree with making illegal the happy hour practice of selling two drinks for the price of one.

My father never preached against drink. My great-grandfather, after whom Carlin Street in Derry is named, founded a wholesale wine and spirit merchants business. I speak from the other perspective. My father is dead but I am sure he will forgive me for talking against the drink.

Treating the problem requires many actions. It is not just a physical problem of damage to the liver. I met a doctor friend leaving the house of a mutual friend who was an alcoholic and had died. I asked the doctor what he put on the death certificate and he replied, "Heart failure". I said, "I suppose the heart has to stop if one is going to die." He concurred. The man was a chronic alcoholic and died of alcoholism but no doctor can put that on a certificate. That is another statistic that is not available to us. The problem must be studied honestly and fairly.

We are talking to action shops rather than talking shops today. The word "significant" cannot embrace the scale of their work for the people and patients involved and their families. As with domestic violence, which we discussed recently, alcoholism is not a personal problem but a family one. There is a certain irony in discussing drink on Ash Wednesday, when in a culture that accepts alcohol abuse, some people might wonder how they will get through today. They may think they do not have a drink problem but will experience a feeling of drought because Ash Wednesday is traditionally a day on which people do not drink. We could all sit back and think about that.

My first question was going to be about the age of the alcoholic but that is already covered in the presentation. I assume the national figures reflect those figures. It is very scary that 9% of alcoholics are aged between 19 and 25 years. Everybody's perception of the alcoholic is of some sad old man somewhere. That is no longer the case and the age profile is becoming progressively younger.

Do the speakers have any thoughts on why it is culturally acceptable that 200,000 people have this problem? Is it because it is a slower death or is it that the Irish are renowned for the fact that they can drink more than anybody else and stay standing? As Dr. Farren said, if that number had breast cancer, there would be an outcry. In our constituency we strive to have proper resources close to home to deal with breast cancer.

Do people have a predisposition to alcoholism or can anyone become an alcoholic? Does that come around to the attitude that it is not their fault? Is hospitalisation better in most cases or is it always necessary? My follow-up question is about what happens when such patients go back into society. As was pointed out already, if alcoholics return to normal society after-care programmes are easy, but are such after-care programmes sufficiently robust? Does the delegation have any thoughts on how we could make them more robust?

Another aspect of the issue is whether we have a model for dealing with the problem that involves the community. My understanding of Alcoholics Anonymous is limited, but I am aware that AA is very much geared to dealing with the patient and the patient's family. Is there a case for involving the wider community? Do we need to exploit or explore a community response to the issue rather than continue to keep it so confidential? By dealing with alcoholics only one to one, are we perhaps — I know that this is the wrong phrase — involved in some sort of conspiracy? The concept of patient confidentiality is important, but other medical issues can involve a community action or reaction. Is there a case for some sort of community response in tackling alcoholism?

Do we need a dedicated awareness programme on alcoholism for the schools system? Should we as legislators promote awareness among people that the alcoholic is not necessarily that person away in the distance with the bottle of methylated spirits but someone much closer to home who suffers from their addiction, possibly in the house that we share with them?

Those are a few of my thoughts.

I join the Chairman in extending a welcome to our guests and I thank Dr. Farren from St. Patrick's Hospital in Dublin and our three friends from the White Oaks Centre in Donegal for attending. I, too, am from Donegal. Although I do not live as near the White Oaks Centre as the Chairman does, I am nevertheless familiar with the work in which the centre is engaged.

I agree with the Chairman that we have a drink culture, although it is almost a cliché to call it such. As public representatives who are required to attend an event almost every night, we know that drink is available whenever a team wins the cup — Deputy Glennon, who has won a few cups in his time, would know something about that — and for almost every other party or celebration, including even baptisms and confirmations. Drink is at the beginning, the core and the end of all such celebrations. Even at State receptions drink is available. As was pointed out last year or the year before by one member, we should perhaps have water, orange juice or lemonade instead of alcoholic drinks at State receptions. Unfortunately, we have an inherent drink culture.

Although drinkers through the ages have been regarded as hard people, I believe that is now changing. To those of us who frequent pubs, it is noticeable that when people leave the pub after an evening drink they tend to make their way home by taxi, thankfully, rather than attempt to take charge of a car. I hope that continues. As Fr. Carlin will know, it is said that drink was probably involved in some of the atrocious accidents that have occurred in his area recently.

We are aware of the work done for many years by Alcoholics Anonymous. The organisation is still active in our county, where I know some people attend an AA meeting every night. Will Fr. Carlin share his views on the work of AA? Is there any co-operation between the White Oaks Centre and AA? Does AA refer people to the White Oaks Centre? Might AA have a role to play in filling the gap in after-care that Fr. Carlin mentioned? I would be happy to hear Fr. Carlin's views on that.

Regarding the work that Dr. Farren carries out at St. Patrick's, I appreciate that hospitalisation is always expensive. He said he treats both public and private patients but can he give us more information on that, such as percentages and so on? I know that VHI and BUPA are involved in that but, if my memory serves me correctly, I think a limit was put on the number of times a patient who has been treated for alcoholism can be readmitted. Does that present a problem in dealing with the health insurance companies? As Fr. Carlin mentioned, accident and emergency units in hospitals are catering at the weekend for people who have been involved in accidents or have had too much to drink. That places great pressure on accident and emergency services, with a resulting cost not only to the economy but in human suffering for the family of the people involved.

Given that the White Oaks Centre is in the north west, does the centre have adequate facilities to deal with demand or is there more demand than the centre is able to meet? Should we have other such centres or should we expand the White Oaks Centre?

I appreciate the attendance of the delegations today. I also appreciate the way in which they have put their arguments, which were disturbing not because of the way in which they were delivered but because of their content. I never realised that our consumption rate was the second highest in the European Union. I had thought we would be behind France and Italy where people drink wine at all times of the day. We have been given some important information, which we will use in highlighting the issue in other fora, here and elsewhere, in the coming weeks and months. I thank the witnesses very much for attending the meeting.

I join my colleagues in welcoming Dr. Farren and Fr. Carlin and his colleagues. I congratulate them on the extremely worthwhile work they are doing with the people concerned and their families, who are lucky to come into direct contact with such services. That work is also hugely important for the knowledge and data that it gives them, which they are able to present to different bodies, including our committee. It is to be hoped that this information will bring home to a much wider circle the full extent of the problem in Ireland.

I ask the Chairman to bear with me as I may be slightly more verbose than normal because this topic is one dear to my heart. I notice that Deputy Deenihan is not here today, so there should be some additional time because of his absence.

As long as the Deputy asks questions, I do not mind.

I am the son of a publican, the grandson of two publicans and the nephew of two other publicans. I was reared in a pub. I am also the son of an alcoholic and I have many friends who suffer from alcoholism but who are not aware of it. That is a major problem in this country. Alcoholism is a problem everywhere, as both presentations have confirmed, but it is not recognised as such. There is still a bravado about the heavy drinker.

I have a couple of questions that have been prompted by the presentations and to which I would be interested to hear the delegations' responses. We have heard clinical definitions of what a binge drinker is and what an alcoholic is, but people often scoff immediately when they hear those figures presented publicly. They say, "Sure, that would put half the country into one or other category." However, the reality is that a significant proportion of our population fall into one or other of those categories. The public simply refuse to acknowledge that many people — and many of us, or many of our immediate circles — fall into one of these categories. People deny that there is a need for remedial action.

Let us discuss the sufferer, as I shall call the person, and those in his or her immediate vicinity. On more than one occasion I have broached the topic with people in my close circle and lost friends as a result. It has made me very wary of doing so again. I would be interested in suggestions about facilitating those who have concerns about others in their immediate circle. How does one broach the subject constructively? I notice the figure of €6 billion per annum in 2002.

Dr. Farren

It is 2002-03.

We are now in 2006, and the Celtic tiger is even fatter than four years ago. By my calculations, it works out on the average salary as €3,000 gross, which is approximately €250 in expenditure each month. I will call that average right across the population. It is a staggering figure.

I also note that St. Patrick's, despite its great reputation and all the work it does, can still deal with only 400 patients per annum. I would be interested in the capacity of St. Patrick's and White Oaks, as well as all similar facilities. What is the national capacity per annum to rehabilitate people? In a country of an estimated 200,000 alcoholics, if we can treat only 1,000 per annum — which I guess might be the case — we are not in the game. We must examine it very seriously.

On the question of prevention versus cure, it appears that we are on a fire brigade mission or, more relevantly, an ambulance call-out. There does not appear to be any ethos. I do not say that in any way critically of either delegation or any of their colleagues around the country — quite the opposite is true. However, of necessity, the entire culture in dealing with the issue seems to be one of cure, and, owing to capacity problems, we can cure only a very small number. Are there any signs of a preventative ethos emerging, or is that a pipe dream at this stage?

I have absolutely no doubt that the political will is not present to tackle the problem of alcoholism, on the part either of the Government or of any Opposition party. The scale of the problem is absolutely mammoth, and we will all need to get together on it. However, we are currently only paying lip service. It is only on occasions such as this, when we have stark presentations, that we have the opportunity to discuss it. I do not mean that as any criticism of any other political party. There are no votes in being party-poopers, and until we take it up on a cross-party basis and provide the political will to address the problem as it exists, instead of paying mere lip service to it and now and then throwing a few quid at voluntary bodies, it will be no good. I hope that the delegations' presentations in this forum today will be the start of something of benefit.

Why do doctors not certify death as being due to alcoholism? Is that an abdication of responsibility, as I believe? It has been mentioned to me several times that one group of immigrants are extremely good with their money. They get far more value from their income, be it social welfare or earned income, than other immigrants or the native population.

All of us sitting around this table know that the vast majority of social problems with which we deal in what are ironically termed "clinics" are drink-related. They are not necessarily drink-driven, but they are drink-related. I note that the Inspector of Mental Hospitals reports that approximately 6.5% of admissions to psychiatric hospitals in 2003 were for alcohol problems. I presume that the figure refers to alcohol problems solely. I wonder in how many of the other 93.5% of cases alcohol was a factor. I expect that the proportion would be very high.

I thank the delegation again, not only for their presentations but for the work that they are doing. I hope that those presentations will have started something that will change the situation. The political will is not currently present to deal with this issue as it should be dealt with.

I, too, welcome Dr. Farren, Fr. Carlin, Ms McMullen and Mr. McCay and thank them for their presentation. I would like to ask a few questions. I hope I am not being offensive, but I saw a dollar sign. Was the figure €6 billion or $6 billion?

Dr. Farren

The computer is American.

That is neither here nor there, but it clarifies matters.

Everyone here has a story to tell. I was a publican in a past life, and I suppose that I was an abuser in some ways. I am a social drinker like my father and most others, and over the years I would indulge in alcohol after a football game, having looked forward to having my first drink when I was 18. I am a little surprised at these figures. Most of us in Ireland who are social drinkers would not have alcohol at home. We would not touch shorts or a can or bottle of beer at home. Now, with the demise of the public house in the past two or three years, and certainly with the smoking ban and the fact that we have all got so busy — I am sure Deputy Glennon will agree — I cannot have a drink in the same way that I used to. We are simply too busy in politics, and it is now unacceptable.

I am surprised at the level of alcoholism and the fact that on average we drank 14.4 litres in 2003. I would like to know the figures for 2004, if available. Was there a reduction, as I suspect?

We all carry a responsibility as politicians. Barnardo's approached us two or three years ago to request that when attending functions we should not be seen in photographs with an alcoholic drink in our hands. My first reaction was indignation at people telling us what to do. However, it was the best thing that I have ever signed up to, since it does not look proper or right to be seen consuming alcohol at a function. In some respects we were being led, but it was a very good exercise, in a sense. I always felt we lacked self-esteem, and that was why we drank a good deal. Now many of the younger people today are full of confidence and very mature. There are obviously different reasons as to why people are drinking more.

The choice of alcohol is worrying. Back in the 1950s our favourite tipple was whiskey and shorts, along with smoking. It certainly killed off a fair proportion of the population. Grown men, and to a certain extent women too, did not reach their maturity because of the choice of drink. That is why I am worried. Nowadays we are going in for Fat Frog and serious alcohol content.

This committee was advised that people were worried about rohypnol, the date rape drug, because so many women were presenting at accident and emergency departments and saying their drinks had been spiked. However, there was no instance of this in any of the accident and emergency departments in the country. I have tried on numerous occasions to explain this to parents and women who feel they were affected, but they do not believe me.

One cannot get rid of alcohol. It has been available for hundreds of years. However, we need to target the drink of choice. The alcohol of choice is hard alcohol. There is not much wrong in a young man drinking a bottle of beer. It will do him no harm, nor will a pint of shandy. I say this from a publican's viewpoint.

I pay tribute to the work being done at St. Patrick's Hospital, which I have had reason to visit on a number of occasions. I have not been to Muff. I was very impressed on calling in to see some of my friends for whom I had not held out much hope. Some of the reasons were depression and others were alcohol-related. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the necessary treatment could actually be provided. As someone who was not 100% certain about what was on offer there, I am very happy to relate that in three sad cases I know about the people were able to return to mainstream life. They are reunited with their families.

As regards the political will, the problem must be approached in a very measured manner. Alcohol is available and publicans exist. There is quite a strong publicans' lobby. However, we have to look at the logistics and the alcohol of choice. I am inclined to advocate a ban on under-23 year olds taking hard alcohol. Ecstasy and cocaine consumption are also contributing to the problem. I am not being provocative and indeed am trying to be measured. I do not believe an outright ban on alcohol is the answer. I know the delegation did not advocate this, but a timebomb is ticking as regards the choice of alcohol by young people. We will not be able to wean them off alcohol. A bottle of beer will not kill them, but we have to look at that.

We definitely would grab the headlines in the morning if we were to seek a full ban on alcohol.

I thank the delegation for its presentation. I intend to ask a few questions rather than commenting. Are we saying there are no alcoholics in this country under 19 years of age? The delegation starts with the age cohort 19 to 25. I do not agree with that. There are people addicted to alcohol from the age of 13. Young lads are constantly being brought into accident and emergency departments to have their stomachs pumped.

What degree of blame is attributable to Government and local authorities for lack of facilities? Successive Governments have failed to provide facilities for young people confronted by alcohol. In County Clare a new town was built in my lifetime at Shannon. We have a lovely town, with shops but no facilities. The nearest facilities are 14 miles away, at Ennis or Limerick. Why has the Government or the local authority not stepped in to provide facilities for young people? What outlet have they? It is either alcohol or drugs. I am not saying that they are indulging, but this leads to it. The delegation is very kind in its presentation in not blaming the local authorities and Government. I blame them.

Fr. Carlin

We were waiting for the members to do that.

I lay the blame at their doorsteps, certainly. Governments and local authorities are to blame. They grant planning permission for lovely towns but without open spaces. It means the young have nothing to fall back on but drugs and alcohol. I am surprised at the delegation's first age cohort and that it has not considered the problem from the time a person becomes a teenager. I thank the delegation for the presentation.

I presume the figure for 18 plus is because anyone below this age is a minor and falls into a different category. The delegation may address that point later.

I welcome the delegates and thank them for the presentation. I will make an observation and ask two questions. Alcohol, in moderation, is all right. The questions are not easy and the delegates appreciate how difficult the issue is. How can people be stopped from drinking excessive amounts of alcohol? How can they be persuaded to admit they have a drink problem and to seek help?

I was listening in my room to the discussion so far. Like previous speakers, I was quite alarmed to hear the level of alcohol consumption among Irish people. It is a statistic that people are not fully aware of, I believe. They certainly do not understand the implications of that level of consumption. It is definitely taking a toll on our national health bill. Whereas we are building up problems from an obesity viewpoint in Ireland, probably greater ones can be associated with alcoholism and they are not being explored or even recognised. There was an obesity forum, but I do not recall hearing of a forum in recent times to look at the abuse of alcohol among the population in general and its effects on health, work performance and so on. There is a major need to examine this.

I am sure the Chairman is supportive on the whole issue of education and the control of alcohol abuse, or alcohol intake. I would like the delegates to refer to the role of primary, post-primary and even third level in educating young people about the evils and dangers of alcohol abuse. People just do not realise the damage it is doing to their bodies. If they were aware of the damage alcohol can do to the liver, the kidney and other organs, how it can affect their performance, quality of life and self-esteem, they might take a different view of what they are doing to themselves. People consume alcohol to get a buzz or to be part of a peer group, but they do not realise they are doing immeasurable damage to their bodies that can be irreparable.

In any major programme that gets people to face up to the challenge of alcohol abuse, education will be a key area. It is not enough to tell young people it is bad for them to consume alcohol; they must be informed of the medical consequences of the damage they are doing to their bodies. Teenage pregnancies and unplanned pregnancies can disrupt a person's life, and these are associated with drinking. What are the witnesses' views on the role of education in a national policy on the control of alcohol abuse?

I attended a conference in Sweden on behalf of this committee not long after the last election. The Queen of Sweden opened the conference and she said she was strongly driven by the problems associated with addiction. While I thought I was there to listen and learn, I ended up being central to the conference because everybody seemed to start by attacking Ireland for having such a high rate of alcohol consumption.

Deputy Deenihan mentioned that there has been a forum on obesity but nothing on alcohol. Do the witnesses see a role in talking to girls about calorie consumption and alcohol? After a while, one begins to realise that a glass of wine contains 200 calories and that a pint contains even more. It may be central to the obesity argument.

Many different issues were raised. I ask the witnesses to answer as many of them as they can. If they have not got the requisite information with them but want to send it on later, that is fine.

Dr. Farren

This has been a wide-ranging discussion. Much of the information is available and is not hidden. The Chairman asked why alcohol abuse is culturally accepted, how we can allow alcoholism to go untreated but allow, for example, breast cancer issues to be prominent. The answer is that addictions are at the bottom of the pile in the medical disease model. Mental health is the poor relation of general health and it always has been. Psychiatry is culturally the least prominent of the medical specialties and addiction treatment appears to be at the bottom of that.

It was disturbing to read the recent report on the vision for change in mental health, where it was stated unequivocally that addictions are to be treated in primary care and are not to be treated in the mental health services. The only provision for treatment of addictions in the mental health services is for serious co-morbid psychiatric disorder with addiction. For those of us in the faculty of substance abuse in the Irish college, this was a dreadful statement. It seems that addictions are to be relegated further from the area of mental health. I am not against primary care, as primary care physicians deal with a great amount of these problems, but there need to be centres of excellence. There needs to be a mental health agenda regarding addictions. In New York, I worked in a hospital that had a department of addictions and mental health. Addictions and mental health were equally treated and funded there, so it was disturbing to read the statement I have referred to in this recent report.

Can Dr. Farren explain what co-morbid means?

Dr. Farren

People with severe mental disorders such as schizophrenia are co-morbidly smoking cannabis.

In other words, the most extreme cases.

Dr. Farren

Exactly. It is not about treatment of addiction per se, or even about the milder co-morbidity of someone with an anxiety disorder and alcoholism. As far as the vision for change is concerned, these conditions do not exist, which is terribly disturbing.

Addictions are hidden because they are disturbingly close to our reality. The Chairman made the point about how common alcohol consumption is, but addiction is very common as well. If we go through our family history, about one third of us in this room are very closely genetically related to an alcoholic. We all have personal experience of dealing with the trauma of alcoholism. Those committee members who are publicans will have seen it every day. Alcohol problems are so common here that it is difficult to treat. Drinking to excess is culturally accepted, but not dealing with the consequences. It will require a massive shift in our perceptions to change that. It is a silent, though massive, disorder. There are very few advocates for recovering alcoholics who are campaigning for their treatment. Due to the shame associated with alcoholism, we allow it to remain hidden even though it is just below the surface in a vast underbelly.

Is that due to a fear of falling off the wagon again? If an alcoholic comes and says that he is a recovered alcoholic, it is worse if he slips off.

Dr. Farren

It is an added shame. I am sure that is part of it, but a reflection of the severity of the disorder is that nobody feels able to stand up on a pedestal and claim to be a banner for successful treatment. Every alcoholic at an AA meeting will claim to be one slip away from being right back at the beginning. Nobody is preaching from on high about this, especially recovering alcoholics.

In 55% to 60% of cases, alcoholism is about genetic predisposition, while about 40% to 45% of cases are due to environmental factors. Genetics is, therefore, very important. Those who are sons of alcoholics are about three times more likely to develop alcoholism than those who are sons of non-alcoholics, even in what are called "adoption studies", where the environment is alcohol neutral. There is much genetic predisposition involved.

Does that apply equally to daughters and sons?

Dr. Farren

Alcoholism is approximately three to four times more common in men than in women. The position in Ireland is changing but it is still close to that. Therefore, daughters of alcoholics are about twice as likely as daughters of non-alcoholics to be predisposed. A Y chromosome appears to be linked to heavy drinking. St. Patrick's Hospital treats approximately a 2:1 ratio and there is a large number of women alcoholics.

Hospitalisation does work, although it is not for everybody. I compared outpatient to inpatient treatment. It is a case of horses for courses. One could give two therapy sessions and perhaps 20% of alcoholics will achieve sobriety. Tiny expenditure and gentle outpatient treatment, even by way of the provision of education, can be enough for someone to say: "I see the light." However, for a significant number of people, treatment will require inpatient hospitalisation. There is a broad spectrum. We would regard ourselves as almost being a tertiary referral centre. We deal with people who have severe alcohol dependence but even among members of that group, who may suffer depression or bipolar disorder, it is possible to achieve significant beneficial outcomes with the correct treatment. The statistics are at least as good as those for the treatment of heart disease, diabetes and other medical disorders.

The role of the community is vital. Any inpatient stay must be successfully followed up with an aftercare programme. Community support means that if a person slips, he or she knows an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, community support group, church group, counsellor or psychiatrist is available. This is vital. Persistence equals success for inpatient programmes. Persistence in treatment and access to significant resources is the key to long-term success. Any treatment research on addiction shows that if one sticks with a programme, it does well but if one drops it, it fails.

Community response can play a part, particularly in the context of the educational role, the supportive role and the society awareness role. Teenagers see hundreds of advertisements for alcohol but not one suggesting that alcohol is bad. Drinks companies have campaigns telling people to drink sensibly but the message given is to drink anyway. It is not suggested that drink is bad because it will kill the liver. No drinks company would put up a poster of George Best with the statement "Drink kills you." The advertising suggests that people should drink sensibly because if they do not, they will not attract beautiful women or they will look the fool, but the message is to drink anyway. If we are dependent on the drinks industry to provide health education, we are in a sorry state. Would we want Marlboro and Players to make our tobacco laws and provide ourtobacco education? I do not think so.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a wonderful organisation. It is ubiquitous and is the organisation which is readily available. At St. Patrick's Hospital, we helped found an organisation called Dual Recovery Anonymous, which was an Alcoholics Anonymous model for people with mental health disorders as well as addiction. We believe that provision of support for Alcoholics Anonymous is incorporated throughout our programme because it is the one organisation worldwide which is ubiquitous — it is there. Its therapy is no better or no worse than any other form of addiction therapy. Addiction counselling can be equally supportive statistically but in terms of provision, availability and support, it is a wonderful organisation.

I was asked about the balance between public and private funding at the hospital. We get no public funding whatsoever. Fr. Carlin may be surprised to hear that I envy him his public financial support. Our entire support is by and large through insurance, or occasionally self aid, which is appalling when one considers the degree of the problem. There is no equivalent to our programme in the public health service, which is a terrible shame.

Reference was made to the drink culture. One reason for the massive increase in consumption in the past ten years is the absence of countervailing cultural information. For example, there is little enforcement of drink driving laws. We are having wonderful constitutional debates about whether one can introduce random drink testing. This debate should have happened 20 years ago. Why are we debating it in 2006 rather than having done so in 1986?

One can go nowhere in this country without encountering alcohol. Many recovering alcoholics at the hospital ask "What can I do?" I tell them to take up X, Y and Z activity but there is such pro-alcohol cultural support that even sporting organisations support it. The GAA took a courageous stance some months ago with regard to limiting alcohol sponsorship but we still have the Heineken rugby cup, the Guinness jazz festival, the Bulmers comedy festival and so on. A first aim should be the banning of all drinks sponsorship of cultural events, particularly those involving the young. We cannot allow the ubiquitous association of positivity and alcohol in Irish culture.

A committee member referred to accident and emergency units being chock-a-block with those suffering alcohol-related disorders. One of my psychiatric colleagues completed a major study which found that while approximately 25% of day visits at accident and emergency were alcohol related, the figure for evening and night visits was 75%. If the Department of Health and Children wants to deal with the accident and emergency crisis, one important way to do so would be to incorporate a focus on alcohol. It is not purely a matter of bed blockers. One of my accident and emergency unit colleagues described one patient who over a five-year period made 128 accident and emergency visits costing the State €500,000.

I commend Deputy Glennon for stating publicly that he is the son of an alcoholic because many people will not do so. Such openness helps us to learn that this is "my" problem as well as a problem out there.

I was asked to explain the definition of a binge drinker and an alcoholic. By research standards binge drinking is the taking of six drinks for a male or five for a female. In this country most serious drinkers would fall off their bar stools at that definition, but that is what the research states. The research standard was defined 20 years ago by the American National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse.

The crude diagnosis of an alcoholic is one who drinks more than their doctor. However, it is now more common to talk about the concept of alcohol dependence because it is defined whereas the concept of alcoholism is not. Alcohol dependence is defined according to the following seven major criteria. Is alcohol a major or central factor in a person's life? Has it caused harm in a person's life? Does a person have a pattern of stopping and starting? Does a person find it difficult to put down a drink or must that person finish the bottle? Does a person have withdrawal effects such as shakes or sweating? Does a person have an increased or altered tolerance to alcohol? Does a person have a persistence in drinking despite questioning that drinking? This is how alcohol dependence is defined; a person who answers "Yes" to three or more of these questions is considered alcohol dependent.

That is worth repetition and clarification. Is Dr. Farren saying that a person who ticks three boxes in respect of those seven questions is clinically an alcoholic?

Dr. Farren

Such a person is clinically alcohol dependent which is the more precise term that we in the medical community now use to define the problem. There are various screening tests, such as the Michigan alcoholism screening tests, where there are 15 questions, and the CAGE questionnaire, which has four questions. "Alcohol dependence" is the medical term and we use those seven questions to define it.

Does Dr. Farren accept that the average Irish person's response to that test is one of the major difficulties we have in dealing with the problem of alcoholism?

Dr. Farren

Absolutely.

There is a non-acceptance by the public of the credibility of this and other tests such as the Michigan test. Many people in Ireland see them as utterly unrealistic.

Dr. Farren

Yes.

This is the first I have heard of this test and I am sure it would be a wake-up call for many people. What can we do to highlight it? There are clearly many alcoholics who do not believe they have a problem.

The purpose of this meeting is to gather information and discover how best to proceed. I want both groups to have time to respond.

Dr. Farren

This information should be ubiquitous. It should be incorporated in the training of every doctor and distributed to every pub and accident and emergency department. A random survey of inpatients in a Dublin hospital found some 28% were alcohol abusive. This represents a snapshot of the population on one day in a Dublin general hospital. People with alcohol difficulties commonly perceive they have no such problem because they do not drink as much as some other person. The issue does not relate to quantity, however, but rather to the role of alcohol in an individual's life. The alcoholic is not necessarily the person at the 15B bus stop wearing a brown coat and bag, reeking of alcohol. Alcoholics are found among our family and friends and, more particularly, in our hospitals.

It is enormously difficult for people to break the taboo and admit their dependence to colleagues and friends. There is a stage which Fr. Carlin referred to as denial and which various researchers call "pre-contemplation". It must be dealt with very gently, through suggestion and observation. It is not helpful if one succeeds only in alienating the friend in difficulty. The general idea is to bring the person through it. There is a psychological process called motivational enhancement, which is designed to bring a person through the different stages of a pre-cesssation of addiction, moving through pre-contemplation, contemplation, resolution, action and so on. It is a delicate and subtle process to assist in gently moving a person from pre-contemplation even to the stage of contemplation which involves merely considering that he or she may have a problem with alcohol. Using hints rather than confrontation is the way to do it.

If, however, one is the spouse or close family member of an alcoholic, that subtlety of approach may be something one simply cannot afford. One could be subtly trying to help the person in difficulty for 20 years. Unfortunately, as many spouses or relatives of alcoholics confirm, the only effective approach may to be force the person by means of a significant confrontation to acknowledge his or her problem. I see a significant number of patients whose family members have got together and told them they must either leave the family home or check into St. Patrick's Hospital. This type of tough love is sometimes what is needed. It may be the only way for family members to get through to a person who is alcohol dependent. A social contact or friend, on the other hand, may not be in such an invidious position that he or she must go for this degree of confrontation. It is a difficult situation and I do not have an easy solution.

There is a massive deficiency in the numbers of treatment places available. I do not know the exact figure but there is nowhere near sufficient quantity to meet existing needs. Although there are no accurate statistics, the estimate of 200,000 is a reasonable figure for the numbers with alcohol dependency. The number of treatment places is minuscule relative to that. I estimate a figure in the order of 1,000 between the 12 treatment facilities, including St. Patrick's Hospital and St. John of God's Hospital, and the small number of beds in general psychiatric hospitals.

Political will is a major issue. In deference to politicians, an important reason there is no political will in this area is that there is no public will. I do not want to point fingers and say it is up to politicians to generate that public will. I would like to say politicians must be the leaders and that this would solve the problem. It would certainly help but a significant factor is the massive deficiency of public will, which arises because of the ubiquity, denial and other issues to which I referred.

Another member asked why doctors do not certify instances of death from alcoholism. There is provision in this regard in that death certificates includes a second layer where a doctor who gives heart attack as the primary cause of death, for example, can also assign a secondary cause. I presume the evidence that alcoholism is not generally given as a cause of death on death certificates is yet another manifestation of our culture of denial. Members observed that many people with drink related problems are presenting at health clinics. I have heard many inner-city general practitioners make the same point; if these problems did not arise some of them might be out of business.

Senator Feighan made a number of comments about how common it is for publicans to see and deal with this issue. An important factor in regard to alcohol dependence is the age at which one starts drinking. A person who begins at the age of 13 is eight times more likely to become an alcoholic than a person who starts at 19 years. Publicans can have a major influence in this regard by the intensity of their enforcement of the rules. Some places are slightly more relaxed than others. This is an important statistic and it changed my ideas about what I will say to my children as they head into their teenage years. They will get strict instructions and will not be brought into a pub and given a half-glass of wine to "educate" them about drinking. My attitude changed in this regard when I read that statistic.

This statistic applies to children who begin drinking at 13 years of age?

Dr. Farren

Children who start drinking at 12 or 13, perhaps 14, years of age are eight to nine times more likely to become alcohol dependent than people who wait until they are 18 or 19 years old. It is a staggering finding, based on research that was well done and published in a highly respectable journal. I accept it.

It is great that politicians are responding positively to the great suggestion of Barnardos that they refuse to pose for photographs in which alcohol is visible. There are many other ways in which we can affect the culture. Drink sponsorship should be banned immediately and I wish there was the political courage to do so. That would be a great achievement. We must change the culture of acceptance. Not being photographed with a pint is a great way to begin because politicians are influential people.

With regard to the issue of women and alcopops, they have changed the pattern of drinking among young women. The Chairman's point about women and calories is well made. Women drink alcopops because they think they will put on less weight than would be the case if they drank pints. While that might be terribly crude, drink companies have picked up on this. The marketing of hard liquor to younger women through careful advertising has been highly effective and the logic underpinning it is the idea of low calories. The young women who are targeted do not realise that it is the quantity of alcohol that counts, rather than the quantity of liquid. The quantity of alcohol contained in the liquid of an alcopop is three times that in an average half pint or in a pint of shandy. Hence, they do not realise that they consume many more calories in alcopops than would be the case if they drank pints. It is ten times easier to drink sweetened vodka than it is to drink pints of shandy or beer.

Senator Feighan made the point about how friends and acquaintances of his at St. Patrick's have integrated into mainstream life and I agree. The main point about the statistics is that they show how well even the most difficult of groups, namely, those with an addiction and severe depression or even a bipolar disorder, can respond to good treatment and follow up. It is important to make the point that this condition is eminently treatable through inpatient, outpatient or even general practice or community support. However, provision of that treatment is vital to changing an individual life while cultural change is vital to achieve the goal of prevention.

As for how one should stop from drinking a person who begins to drink excessively, it comes down to individual and society. One should increase the individual's awareness and give him or her cause for reflection. The crude rule is that while two drinks per day is all right, or possibly three for men, more than that is bad for one's health. I refer to units rather than drinks and a unit consists of half a pint rather than a pint, or one glass of wine. While this rate of consumption is essentially all right, the health consequences become massive if more is consumed. Many people drink much more than this amount.

The Chairman made an important point in respect of Sweden. The Swedes adopted a model of restrictive control on the part of the Government. While they did not ban alcohol, they controlled it. They controlled advertising, distribution and licensing and Sweden is now second from the bottom of the league. We drink approximately three or four times more than the Swedes. I can understand why the Swedes were critical of Ireland's high consumption levels to the Chairman, because they have adopted a successful model. They did so because of the extent of their problem before its adoption. It was adopted in the 1950s and 1960s and having worked through many glitches, Sweden now has a wonderfully effective model which we should continue adopting. However, that would require a certain degree of political will.

How does one induce a person to stop? If I knew the answer to that question fully——

Dr. Farren would not be appearing before the joint committee.

Dr. Farren

No. I would be in my villa in the Bahamas. There is no single answer. I have asked almost all of the thousands of alcoholics who I have treated what made them stop, and none could give me the full answer. While individuals have made guesses as to why they stopped, no one could tell me the secret. It is an individual decision for everyone. We take a broad spectrum approach to treatment and hit them with education, the family, support and the medical facts. I cannot tell the joint committee what the single factor common to all might be, as it is extremely individual.

Deputy Deenihan made some points regarding the quantity of alcohol. The strategic task force on alcohol reported approximately a year and a half ago and made 78 recommendations. While that sounds like a lot, unfortunately the number of measures which have been adopted so far is much lower. Although the role of education is absolutely vital, the provision of information for young people is absent. All they see are Heineken advertisements. They do not see pictures of George Best's liver. The degree to which all the body's organs are affected by alcohol is staggering. When I deliver lectures to that effect to my patients, people blanch on discovering the degree of physical harm that alcohol can do.

Dr. Farren has been extremely comprehensive.

Dr. Farren

I have spoken on just about everything that was presented to me. I have tried to give as educated a response as possible.

Dr. Farren responded very well. While there may not be much left on which Fr. Carlin can expand, he should feel free to so do.

Fr. Carlin

I agree. Dr. Farren provided a comprehensive response to the variety of questions and comments made. The theory concerning genes has not been proven. It would be extremely difficult to make the correlation between my father being alcoholic — which incidentally he was — and my life and that of my family. I will try to provide an answer, although Dr. Farren's expertise as a psychiatrist may enable him to correct my psychology. Basically, genetic testing using DNA has been carried out recently with the families of alcoholics to ascertain whether any physical markers can be found. In my opinion, if there was such a thing — there is not — as a psychological gene, it would be a sense of shame and inferiority and knowing that something was wrong. As Dr. Farren has noted, if the mother or father in a family has the problem, it certainly seems to affect the children. The record shows that such families have a greater predisposition to alcoholism than is normal. However, denial is widespread in Ireland. In my own case, although I had witnessed the problem all my life, I reached the age of 60 before opening a rehabilitation centre.

My theory is supported by a consideration of the ease with which deprived indigenous people, such as the put-down native Americans in Dr. Farren's country, took to alcoholism. I suspect this is a factor. One can consider Carl Jung's examination of Hitler's rise to prominence and of how he received support. During the mid-1930s, Jung tested German patients in his Swiss clinic and in their dreams discerned shame and a sense of anger, depression, resentment and frustration. He predicted the Second World War as well as the support which such a charismatic figure as Hitler would attract if he ever arose. Although it was a long time ago and its subsequent economic emergence has enabled people to forget, this nation was oppressed for 400 years. I suspect this has a bearing on our drinking habits and this appears to be borne out by the histories of other indigenous people.

As we travelled to Dublin for this meeting, Mr. McCay commented on the outcome of a meeting between the President and some young people. Perhaps he will give the details to the joint committee, as it was quite useful.

Mr. Tommy McCay

I made my comment in the course of a discussion on an issue which seemed vital at the time, namely, how should people be educated about alcohol. Ms McMullan had just made an important comment to the effect that a policy measures document for the north west found that promoting alternatives, education and persuasion had no effect on alcohol consumption. On a scale which ranged from proven high effectiveness downwards through proven effectiveness, some effect, and no effect, alcohol education was ranked as having no effect.

However, in a meeting between President McAleese and some young people recently, one of the strategies suggested was to initiate teacher-led resources at schools to address problems of lack of confidence and self-esteem which can lead to alcohol dependency. Tackling lack of confidence and low self-esteem is more important than imparting information. As a teacher with many years of experience, I almost believe that the introduction of compulsory education is a contributory problem. This issue is a hobby horse of mine. Children are forced to learn certain subjects and, whether they like it, be tested in them. Education is a significant factor but we will not discuss it today. It is vital to the self-esteem, growth and health of the nation.

A speaker mentioned encouraging a preventative, rather than a curative, ethos. Fr. Carlin uses a curative ethos in White Oaks Centre but the centre also has a garden where therapy is provided and a proper Celtic spirituality and way of life, community support and hospitality are promoted. This hospitality is not alcohol-related. The garden also promotes an ethos of study for the right reason in order that people who have come out of White Oaks Centre choose where to live, exist and have their being. This is where they have chosen to exist. The centre is, of course, alcohol-free. We hope to encourage this preventative ethos at White Oaks Centre. Education is a very significant factor.

Fr. Carlin

In one sense, the group in St. Patrick's Hospital differs from that of White Oaks Centre because we cater for people in our area who do not wish to mix with medical card holders. These people wish to obtain private treatment. St. Patrick's Hospital is a waiting home. There is room for both types of institution.

I will quote from a recent letter we sent to VHI in response to one speaker's comment about VHI. VHI concluded that there was an adequate supply of facilities for the private health insurance market. However, people who wanted to come to us could not receive cover from VHI. This is unfortunate because although there may be an adequate supply of facilities throughout the country, there are no facilities akin or equal to our facility in the north west which are covered by VHI. The committee could help in this regard. VHI is funded by the Government and must realise that those of us who have carried out voluntary work on a daily basis in these facilities for the last five years need more respect than that shown by VHI's comment. Such comments are unacceptable. We must stand up and state these facts very clearly.

A speaker commented on people between 19 and 25 years of age. These are simply our statistics. We do not admit people under 18 for insurance reasons. If we had adequate insurance, we would admit people in this age group. Another speaker asked whether we believe we have sufficient rooms in our facility. We can cater for between 12 and 144 people and could increase on this number. We are largely meeting demand.

However, we do not have a detoxification facility. We would like to have four resident nurses to cover shifts, however, we cannot afford to hire them. We witness money being squandered. Alcohol should be taxed more, although I am not stating that people should not drink at all. However, if we are serious about tackling alcohol-related problems, there are plenty of preventative measures which could be promoted. Measures such as White Oaks Centre's Celtic peace garden, which was referred to by Mr. McCay and is a remarkable piece of work which we are looking forward to launching on the night of St. Patrick's Day with many young people who have just attended funerals of other young people killed in the Inishowen area, could be introduced. Everyone supports this abstinence night, which involves lighting a large bonfire to signify the renewing of faith in the country.

We are floundering and pretending that our country does not have a Christian heritage when we have a tremendous Christian heritage about which we should not be ashamed and which should be renewed. I would like to see a spiritual revival because it is the central factor in restoration, whatever that means. Spirituality means everything and encompasses life in its entirety. There is a gap in people which is filled up when they recover. Whatever God is, they know him. I would like to encourage whatever approaches bring about this happiness in life and contented sobriety, which we unquestionably need in this country.

The question of home detoxification and whether everyone with alcohol problems needs hospitalisation was raised. GPs use home detoxification, which is often effective. Many GPs are good at home detoxification, other GPs refer people to us and certain GPs frankly do not have a clue about alcohol addiction. Most members of the clergy know nothing about this addiction. I knew little about it until I became involved in a centre in Derry which treated those with alcohol problems in 1980 when I was relieved from my diocesan duties. I worked in the centre for two years by which time I realised that it contained something good which could be promoted. Later on, we opened White Oaks Centre.

Home detoxification is satisfactory to some extent but a change in the person's mentality must take place. It is not simply a question of spending a few days detoxifying. It also concerns the follow through and acquiring a completely new mindset. The alcoholic's ego is very strong, although the ego may be present in all of us and may simply be more evident in the alcoholic. The denial, domination and control exhibited by an alcoholic towards his or her family or partner is a major factor in his or her character.

There is a need for a group where these characteristics are questioned and where the alcoholic can admit that he or she has a problem and must change for the betterment of himself or herself and society. The question of how one can get a friend with an alcohol problem to admit and acknowledge it was raised. Dr. Farren gave a very good answer to this question. An opportune, or kairos, time comes along when, for some reason, the penny drops and the person admits that he or she has a problem. Sadly, this sometimes only comes about when a person has reached rock bottom. It would be preferable if Ireland realised it has a problem before it reaches this stage because this is where many of its young, and not so young, people are heading.

I do not lay the blame solely on young people. I also blame people of my age and the generation below me. I am the same age as a grandfather but I see how people in the generation below me have paid off their children in order to have their nights out because they work so hard. They need to have their additional nights out so they pay off their children with pocket money at first and plenty of money to buy alcohol after that.

We must ask ourselves whether we are developing family values and faith practices which will help individuals develop their full potential. We neglect people emotionally, which sounds contradictory in the prosperous world of the Celtic tiger. We neglect children psychologically if we are not with them and do not talk to them. Prosperity should have helped us in this regard. I do not oppose prosperity but I do oppose that which deprives children of emotional unity with their families. Something must happen. The picture is bigger than just treatment centres.

That is from where the committee is coming. We want the White Oaks Centre to be one of the cogs in our work in relation to domestic violence. We will try to pull together people working on the ground and many other factors.

Regarding the issue raised by Mr. McCay, the best example I could give is that some people in a group of which I was once a member drank while others did not, but there were some nights when we decided that no one would drink. We would all drink Diet Coke rather than have just one person drive while the others enjoyed themselves. We invariably went to pubs where people said they would have whatever the four of us were drinking and the barman asked whether we survived on Diet Coke. No one believed us that we could have as much craic on Diet Coke as we could when drinking vodka and Diet Coke or whatever else was there. The strengthening of a person's ability to make that decision in a group, that he or she could go out-----

Mr. McCay

What about the price of a Diet Coke?

That is the argument on everything. For example, the price of an apple will always be twice the price of a packet of crisps and a bar of chocolate.

On the issue of drugs, a good example was provided to the committee of Jack and Jill going up a hill. The example, which was very hard hitting, dealt with what happened when Jack took drugs. It was placed on the back of toilet doors in Dún Laoghaire. When one read the example, it really hit one between the eyes. Perhaps campaigns on the back of every toilet door about putting one's general practitioner out of business by not drinking so much or, more to the point, tests about how much one consumes are exactly what we need.

The number of committee members is falling. I apologise on behalf of the Labour Party's representatives, who were attending a party meeting held at an unusual time but sent their apologies. Many people are watching our meeting on monitors. It has been important for us as our guests have been frank and brutally honest and they are dealing with an important issue, for which reason we asked them to attend. As our guests have spent a considerable time with the committee, I offer them my genuine thanks. I will have many more encounters with the White Oaks Centre, as it is just outside my back door. I trust the committee will have more interactions with St. Patrick's Hospital also. I guarantee that whatever we can do to promote the aims and goals of our guests' work will be encompassed in our report. We will not be found wanting in offering support. The meeting is now concluded.

The joint committee adjourned at 6.25 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 14 March 2006.

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