I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Pat Carey.
Drug Abuse: Discussion with Minister of State.
I am grateful for the opportunity to make a brief opening statement on the issue of cocaine and its emergence as a real problem in our society. I will be happy to answer questions from members of the committee on the issue and any other matters pertaining to illicit drugs.
Last Friday I launched the first bulletin from the all-island drug prevalence survey 2006-07, commissioned jointly by the National Advisory Committee on Drugs, NACD, and the drug and alcohol information and research unit of the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety in Northern Ireland. This is a follow-on from the first such survey in 2002-03 and the results now available give us comparative figures to monitor changes in illicit drug use across the overall population for the first time. The results of the survey indicate that while cannabis continues to be the most commonly used illegal drug, the level of cocaine use in our society has increased significantly, confirming the findings of An overview of Cocaine Use in Ireland, published by the NACD last year arising from a joint examination of all data available at the time by the NACD and the national drugs strategy team.
The order of the increase recorded in lifetime use for all drugs — from 18.5% to 24% — was expected. The corresponding increase for cocaine was from 3% to 5%. Such results are expected because older people tend to have less exposure to, and usage of, drugs over their lifetimes, and this is particularly true of cocaine. Hence lifetime prevalence rates are likely to increase for a considerable period of time as the current younger population ages. The increase in recent use — that is, last year — and current use — that is, last month — is of more concern and emphasises the task we face in regard to illegal drugs. The results of the survey show that the use of cocaine is mainly a younger adult phenomenon and that it is on the increase among the 15-34 age group. While the overall population rate for recent use or last year use at 1.7% is still relatively low, the figure for younger adults at 3.1% shows a disturbing increase from 2% in 2002-03. Current use has increased among this age group from 0.3% to 0.5%. With respect to gender, use of cocaine by males continues to run well ahead of the figures for females, with last year prevalence for males at 2.3% and females at 1%.
All of the information coming from the drug prevalence study will be of great help in targeting interventions even more effectively. It is crucial that people understand the health issues and other dangers associated with experimentation and dabbling with cocaine. The physical and mental health problems that arise from its use are alarming. Cocaine use is linked to heart conditions and strokes and various other physical complaints that vary depending on the route of administration of the drug. Frequent or long-term use of cocaine can also have a powerful effect on the user's mental health. I also draw attention to the broader societal harms that can be caused by drug use, including the criminal activity arising from supplying drugs and the disproportionate effect that this can have in disadvantaged areas. I urge people to think about all these consequences before experimenting with drugs.
Dealing with the cocaine problem has been a priority for me since I became Minister of State with responsibility for the national drugs strategy. I am vigorously pursuing implementation of the recommendations of last year's cocaine report with the HSE, the Garda, drugs task forces and others, through the interdepartmental group on drugs, which I chair. These recommendations principally relate to treatment but also cover supply, prevention and research.
Meanwhile, I will continue to emphasise the prevention message. The HSE, in consultation with various interested parties, has developed a drugs awareness campaign at national level, with a particular focus on cocaine. This will be rolled out in the next ten days or so. At the same time, I have secured funding for initiatives to tackle the cocaine problem this year and I am considering using part of this to fund complementary cocaine awareness campaigns at a more local and regional level. At the same time, my Department, in partnership with the HSE in particular, continues to fund training initiatives, pilot projects and emerging needs fund projects all focused on the cocaine issue.
I acknowledge the successes of the Garda and the customs service of the Revenue Commissioners in regard to the level of their drug seizures in 2007. However, trade in illicit drugs is a global problem and those involved continue to seek out new ways of delivering their products. Against this background, it is vital that we continue to renew our efforts in regard to supply reduction.
The current national drugs strategy is coming to an end this year and I have established a steering group, comprising representatives of the key players, to make recommendations on a new strategy for the period 2009-16 to me as the responsible Minister of State. Its work will include extensive consultation with various interested parties and the public at large and I encourage people, especially younger people, to take this opportunity to make an input.
This meeting is a useful exercise for allowing Members of the Oireachtas to make initial contributions to the formulation of the new strategy. I am keen to listen to the views of members of the committee and to consider any proposals they have on how to address the issue of problem drug use in our society. I look forward to continuing engagement with the committee as the new strategy is developed. The challenges posed by cocaine use are significant but I am confident that we can meet them through a co-ordinated approach utilising the current structures of the national drugs strategy and whatever structures develop out of the review of the current strategy.
I welcome the Minister of State. There is no doubt that there is a serious drug abuse problem in this country. The strategy we had in the past does not appear to have worked. We need to be able to deal with people who have a serious drugs problem while also supporting the Garda, the customs service and everybody involved in preventing drugs coming into the country. The Road Safety Authority has produced some serious advertisements which get people's attention. While similar advertisements should be shown on RTE, TV3, other channels and carried in the newspapers, we must also have some type of programme in schools. There is a serious problem about which we must educate young people. Some professionals say we should not be talking about it in schools but I believe we should show children the effects of drugs.
What is necessary is the prosecution of a few high profile individuals in the courts to show young people that it is not trendy to take drugs. It is time that such individuals acted responsibly. This is like the situation ten years ago concerning drink driving when the issue was not taken seriously. It is now; it is no longer acceptable to drink and drive. We want to send a strong message that it is unacceptable to take drugs, no matter what section of society those concerned come from. In the past the law seemed only to apply to working class areas and the working class. We seemed to ignore professionals and those in high profile jobs such as in the entertainment industry. It is time we had a number of prosecutions if such individuals are found using illegal drugs. The Irish Examiner recently produced a good supplement, as it did yesterday, on this topic. That newspaper must be complimented on its role in reporting on the drugs problem. The Minister of State’s Department should send this supplement to every home and school in the country. I am new to this area and intend to have some policy put in place to support the Minister of State and his Department in dealing with this serious problem.
The report published last week on drug use concerned those who had admitted to using drugs. One could add another 10%, 15% or 20% to account for those who have not admitted to using drugs. They will not admit to having a problem, even though they may know it is not good for their health or that of their families.
The Minister of State said he was initiating a new strategy, which is good but we need a stronger one. Detox beds are required for those who want to undergo such treatment. We do not currently have such resources. Such facilities need to be put in place immediately. Given the report published last Friday, there is no doubt that there is a serious problem for those who wish to be detoxed but find that there are no beds available. If drug addicts want such treatment, they cannot be left waiting.
I want to know what the Minister of State will do about placing a stronger emphasis on educating school students about drugs. We must educate young people, as we have done concerning drink driving and the environment. The same approach needs to be taken to drugs, the greatest epidemic hitting the country. Unless these steps are taken, drug abuse will have a major negative effect on the economy and people's lives. We can see the effects every day in housing estates and work practices. What is being done to test drivers for drugs, as well as those in the workplace? What is the Government doing in this respect and what legal advice has it received? What are we going to do about drug testing? It is as lethal to drive a car while drugged as it is to do so while drunk. Therefore, something must be done about testing drivers for drugs. What advice has the Department received in this regard?
I may have other questions to pose later.
I thank the Minister of State for attending and making his presentation which I note concentrates on cocaine use which has become more prevalent in recent times. Unfortunately, many other drugs are also significant in many communities, particularly in disadvantaged areas. Traditionally, cocaine was seen as a drug used in more affluent middle-class areas but, unfortunately, that is no longer true. It now seems to be prevalent in all areas, particularly among younger males.
Those involved at the coalface must have every opportunity to make an input at the steering group established by the Minister of State. What advertising campaign does he envisage to get individuals to make submissions to the group? Very often parents who have observed drug abuse in their local communities may not be part of any formal group but may have an important input to make. Such persons should be included when it comes to making representations to the steering group in order that their voices can be heard.
I am concerned about youth services and facilities, including youth clubs. I acknowledge that this is not part of the Minister of State's remit.
It is.
Often youth clubs close at 6.30 p.m. or 7 p.m. after which time the opportunities for misbehaviour occur. We should examine how the resources of youth services and facilities are used at a time when young people are likely to be exposed to conditions that are not good for them. We should review the services and facilities available later in the evening to keep young people off the streets and thus out of trouble.
Drug suppliers are most affected when their pockets are hit. In this respect, I see a strong role for the Criminal Assets Bureau. We should make available whatever resources are required to make the people concerned pay for the evil they are doing to young people, in particular, and society at large. In that way, the perpetrators could be brought to book by seizing their ill-gotten gains.
I agree with Deputy Ring on the need for drugs education in schools and drug testing. We have now come to terms with the significance of drink driving but must also address the issue of driving while under the influence of drugs. I would like to hear the Minister of State's comments in that regard.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus tréaslaím leis de bharr na hoibre atá déanta aige go dtí seo. I welcome the Minister of State and compliment him on the excellent work he has done to date. He has definitely adopted a hands-on approach in dealing with the drugs menace, which I have noticed in his contributions on television and radio programmes. That is an important part of what we are dealing with.
I was disappointed with the way in which the drugs issue was handled recently on a major national television talk-show, on which the Minister of State appeared. We are lucky that he did not succumb to the frivolity with which the subject was handled on that occasion. It is wrong to fly the flag of civil liberties on such programmes and say people should be allowed to dabble in drugs, without balancing that view against the deaths of young people and the terrorising of communities as a result of drug use. Because there is a virtual national emergency we should approach it in the way any emergency is approached. It is not just the work of the Government or schools, the whole community must get involved. Having seen the sordid side of drug abuse, including the deaths of some lovely young people, the message must be sent that it is not acceptable to glamorise drug use subtly on radio and television programmes. This happened in the past with alcohol and smoking. Strict sanctions were imposed on smoking but we seem to be slower to act against alcohol use because there are a lot of powerful vested interests involved.
At times it is difficult to bring about the changes needed. To appreciate the extent of the problem one has only to witness the anti-social behaviour outside any nightclub. When one thinks of those living in the immediate vicinity whose lives are being wrecked as a result, it is time for tough measures. I have been watching a series on BBC television in which British police officers are followed by cameras as they do their work. One can see what happens outside nightclubs and we are dealing with a virtual jungle. We must avoid the glamorisation of alcohol which is another drug. We must be prepared to put our heads above the parapet and be called old fogeys, if necessary. If we allow this situation to continue to drift, the quality of life every citizen is entitled to expect will no longer be available.
I am glad in many ways that the issue of harder drugs such as cocaine is coming to the surface and that we have an opportunity to see the considerable extent of this trade. Even though gardaí are doing a great job, and we must salute them for it because they are doing it against some vicious and dangerous people, the quantity of drugs being confiscated is only the tip of the iceberg.
There is nothing sadder than to hear one's town mentioned on national radio as having a serious drugs problem. It happened in the case of my town. A small rural town with a population of 3,000, where one would take it that quality of life was assured for everyone, was mentioned on national radio. That is being replicated throughout the country.
I always remember the terrible death of Ms Veronica Guerin. The nation was shocked at that time. As a result, virtually in a matter of days there was an entirely new approach to apprehending the gangland leaders. Exactly the same must apply now because young lives are being destroyed regularly. Once and for all, we should treat it as the emergency it is.
Will the Minister of State say whether there is an ongoing interaction with the powers that be in the media to look for a sense of responsibility on their part and also for them to play a role in bringing about, once and for all, a united approach to the problem and, hopefully, a solution as well.
I, too, welcome the Minister of State to the committee and thank him for his opening remarks. I have a couple of questions for him. How many drug task forces are there? Some counties lost theirs.
I very much welcome the complementary cocaine awareness campaigns at a local and regional level. It is fine that there is a campaign in the national media but it is important that there be local campaigns which are targeted regionally.
I am interested in the recommendations on this new strategy for the period 2009 to 2016. Like Deputy Ring, we all need to get up to speed on the Department's strategy.
I certainly support a meaningful approach to the scourge of drugs in our country. Recently, I had occasion to take two taxis when a train was running late and I had to take a taxi from Heuston Station to the Oireachtas and then to another meeting. Both taximen told me that at weekends dealers are dealing in the back of their cars and they are terrified of what is going on in the cars. One taximan recommended that gardaí should take over some of the taxis on weekend nights to see the dealing that is going on in the back of these cabs. These taximen are terrified to look around in case they are attacked. In my rural area of Carlow-Kilkenny a hackney driver stated that when he is cleaning out his car after the weekends he often finds drugs of one sort or another on the back seat and on the floor. This is a place where people think they can peddle their awful wares with impunity without being seen. It is not their car so they cannot be chased. They are doing it in these public service vehicles. That is something to note.
Pupils are intimidated and perhaps targeted by these peddlers of evil outside school gates. We as a nation have become immune to the vast sums of money the Criminal Assets Bureau informs the public on the nightly news have been seized. Such reports refer to another couple of tonnes, another couple of million euro. We are immune to it now because it is part of our mainstream language. We must adopt a fresh approach and state every time we hear these reports that this is dreadful. It is not just the quantity and the volume but the communities who are being ripped apart and lives which are being torn apart. As public representatives each of us present knows families who seek help to free their communities of drugs. The Minister of State has my full support and commitment to do whatever it takes to eradicate the scourge of drugs from communities.
I add my voice to those thanking the Minister of State for coming to the committee meeting. I commend him on his genuine efforts to solve this problem.
I note the recommendations of the previous joint committee, the first two of which relate to the importance of education of young people. I spoke to a teacher last week about educating his pupils about drugs. He brought in a counsellor for a day at a cost of €800 to do a number of sessions with the classes and the pupils had to pay €5 or €7 each for the service. Everybody present agrees that there must be education on the dangers of drugs but there should be funding for that to happen. The funding provided would save many lives in many ways. It is not fair that it should continue in the way I outlined. What should people do when they want to provide such education?
I represent a mainly rural constituency. Drugs are very much a nationwide problem and they are a problem in the rural areas. A number of years ago it was a problem in the cities and perhaps in the rural towns and villages at weekends, and the perception was that this was caused by students coming back from colleges. It is a problem every day of the week now, the same as everywhere else. There are the related problems such as suicide.
The following would be a matter for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. In Mayo, for instance, there are up to 30 members of the Garda allotted to the traffic corps whereas in the drug unit there are three or four members who have been trained to deal with the drugs issue. If we are to be serious about this, we must provide funding for the necessary education and if we are to put the so-called get tough policy in place, we need to work with whoever. There are now as many people dying of drugs in Ireland as are dying on the roads and they deserve equal attention by the law in that area.
I, too, thank the Minister of State for his statement. I congratulate him. I have seen at first hand the difference he has made to groups and individuals working locally to tackle illegal drugs. They find it encouraging to have a Minister with a hands-on approach who is willing to discuss issues and problems with them.
I agree with most of what was said earlier, particularly about schools and young people. I would also make the case for the education of parents. The Minister of State will be attending the 11th or 12th annual mass in Seán MacDermott Street this week where parents of children who have died from drug abuse come together from throughout the country and, indeed, from abroad.
The education of parents is crucial. There are no structured programmes in place specifically targeted at parents to make them aware of the warning signs and the harmful consequences of drug abuse and to help them become able to spot what is coming down the line with their children.
Some of the more startling figures in some of the tables in the all-island report relate to sedatives, tranquillisers and anti-depressants. Linking in to the issue of alcohol, I understand that many of the active groups in this area have for some time been suggesting that alcohol should be included in some part of the national drugs strategy and linked as being a possible gateway to harder drug abuse. The review of the national drugs strategy might present an opportunity to refocus the task forces. The original nine task forces were set up in cities and towns but expanded into regional task forces. Sometimes they deal with issues such as closed circuit television systems and grants for play areas and so on, which means the focus is being lost on the original intention behind them. However, significant work is being done on the ground and the increase in resources in the recent budget was welcome. Those on the ground should be able to approach the Department to explain the issues that are coming up. This issue needs to be addressed, as it is an opportunity for them to have a direct input. I am very supportive of the work being undertaken.
I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for his presentation. I pay tribute to the Irish Examiner. Earlier in the Seanad I called for a review of the health promotion unit in the Department of Health and Children. Teenagers spend a vast amount of their time outside school. In their formative years young people are influenced by messages. I welcome the Minister of State’s decision to use Internet sites such as Bebo and Facebook to interface with them, as they use these sites to interact socially. Equally, YouTube could be used effectively as a message board.
The Irish Examiner has set a trend for us. Perhaps the Minister of State and the Government could work with that newspaper and other media outlets, as Senator Ó Murchú suggested, as the Government’s message is not resonating with those who use drugs. As Deputy Brady said, parents and young people need to be targeted. What is the Minister of State’s strategy to target parents other than those involved with local drugs task forces? As Deputy Ring stated, drug use has changed. The majority of Government money is allocated to disadvantaged areas under the RAPID and CLÁR programmes. Nothing is being done to help middle class areas caught up in the drugs epidemic.
I refer to detox beds and rehabilitation centres which should be a priority in the new national drugs strategy. The provision of youth cafés and other alternatives for young people who are not involved in sport should be considered under the young people's facilities and services fund. Will the Minister of State address the education issue and how he intends to target young people? Does he have plans to unfurl a detailed drug court programme, as the courts have a major role to play? Celebrities appear on television and radio and in magazines serenading us about their drug use. This sends a message that it is okay when it is not. The courts must send a message to celebrities that they will be penalised. We, as public representatives, are obliged to make sure that happens.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit ag an coiste. I welcome the all-Ireland study because the issue of drugs needs to be dealt with on this basis. An analysis of the figures is interesting. The issue of illegal drugs does not only relate to large urban centres. The study surveyed 6,000 people in all health board regions and shows this is an issue throughout the country. Is a regional breakdown available, as the report only differentiates between the Six Counties and the rest of the island? The study also highlights the difference in the illegal drugs people take and the reasons for this. However, overall, the report demonstrates we are losing the first against drugs. Those who are most vulnerable are aged between 15 and 34 years. Drug use among this cohort has increased from 11.5% to 17.3%, a 50% increase. The Government's strategy is not working to reverse the trend of illegal drug use. However, if it was not in place, the picture would be much worse.
The Government needs to examine a number of key areas in developing the new strategy. As I have called for in the Seanad and as my colleague, Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, has stated during a number of budget debates, investment must be made in various initiatives to steer young people away from drugs. The young people's facilities and services fund is a clear example of the Government's failure to make such an investment. An allocation of €64 million to this fund is not sufficient as it is only available in urban areas. By comparison, €76 million was allocated to the horse and greyhound racing fund, which demonstrates where the Government's priorities lie. Would the Minister of State support the introduction of a Supplementary Estimate to ensure adequate funding for this initiative?
I refer to the issue of regional drugs task forces which were set up in 2003 in the ten former health board areas. Illegal drug use is not only an issue in urban areas in which local drugs task forces are based but funding is not available to support the regional task forces in rural areas. I agree it needs to be ensured the money made available to the task forces is targeted at the issue and not used to supplement another fund for youth clubs and so on.
Garda resources are also an issue. I come from County Donegal where a Garda drugs unit has been established but it does not have a permanent member, which is unacceptable. The unit operated without a sergeant for a long time. Deploying gardaí on a part-time basis to address this serious issue in County Donegal and elsewhere is not good enough. It needs to be ensured the necessary policing resources will be deployed in these areas. Gardaí working in the drugs unit need to devote all their time to tackling the issue. They should not be engaged in community policing while working with the drugs unit during their free time.
I refer to the lack of drug counsellors throughout the State. The restrictions on recruitment within the HSE have created difficulties in this regard. Will the Minister of State seek a commitment from the HSE to recruit drug counsellors? With regard to the recruitment of drug counsellors, has he received or will he seek any commitments for resources to employ the counsellors required throughout the country?
I thank members for the comprehensive range of questions raised. I will deal with general issues first. A number of members have asked about the all-island prevalence study. It is Bulletin 1 in the documentation. In response to Senator Doherty, there are a number of further bulletins to come. In addition, a breakdown on a regional drugs task force basis will be available soon. The regional areas are the same as the old health board areas and the breakdown will provide a better picture of the situation overall. We also expect to have an analysis on the prevalence by drug, age group and gender.
A number of committee members referred to the work of the Irish Examiner. I would be the first to compliment its work and before Christmas I decided to send 150 copies of its first supplement to each post-primary school in the country. That supplement provided a good, warts and all, analysis of the situation and did not pull its punches. I do not want to spare the blushes of some of the people associated with the supplement, because blushes do not come through beards, but I compliment them on the work they are doing. I am considering the feedback we are getting from schools. To be frank, I suspect, as those of us who come from a teaching background would know, that some supplements may well be still sitting in principals’ offices. I hope not too many of them are doing so. I know many supplements are being used, particularly by transition year students and their teachers, to create greater awareness. The supplement that was part of yesterday’s initiative by the Irish Examiner, Lets Talk Drugs, deals with how to talk to children about drugs and is a very good support document. It is targeted at parents, family members and work colleagues and advises them of what to watch out for. I see it as contributing to the awareness programme that has been developed.
Some of the media have been superb in their coverage of the issue and local radio has played an important role. I have heard colleagues talking about the issue on radio and raising awareness. We must continue this approach. One of the Dublin local radio stations carried a campaign before Christmas advising people not to dabble in drugs and pointing out that a person's first snort of cocaine could also be his or her last. I hope other elements of the media will take a similar proactive approach.
Senator Buttimer and others asked about the education issue and circulation of information to schools. I do not want to make a commitment on that yet, because I do not want to flood schools with material. Most schools already have programmes in place such as Walk Tall. The schools and the Department of Education and Science are also working with the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment on preparing programmes that will be targeted at the post junior certificate group, starting with transition year groups. It is hoped that in the new academic year a number of significant pilot programmes will be ready to be rolled out.
There is a danger we might take the line that one size fits all. One size does not fit all. This is the reason the next phase of the awareness programme, which I expect to be an ongoing programme, will be targeted locally. One of the weaknesses of previous programmes has been that they have been of short duration. I will encourage clusters of task forces to come together, perhaps on a regional basis, to ensure the programmes are effective at local level. I am disposed towards providing some funding for such programmes.
Deputy Ring raised a number of interesting questions. I agree with him that hard-hitting advertisements on radio and television are necessary. That is the reason the next phase of the advertising programme will concentrate not just on digital websites and the links to drugs.ie, which were available from 13 December to 13 January and which proved effective. We will also continue to use social networking sites, billboard advertising, radio programmes targeting younger people, bus shelter advertising, etc. We will also continue some effective local campaigns such as those going on in Dublin’s inner city, in Cavan and in Edenderry. These are interesting campaigns and we would like to develop them.
With regard to getting the message to users in the professions, I believe drugs, particularly cocaine, are prevalent among all classes and genders. Gardaí deal with this wherever they get intelligence. I encourage everybody, including taxi drivers and public service vehicle owners, albeit they may feel under threat, to make the information they have available to the Garda authorities so that we can work on prosecutions.
With regard to detox beds, the report published earlier this year suggested as an interim measure that the number of detox beds should be doubled from the current 23 or 24. The HSE produced a report recently that suggests approximately 130 detox beds, but these would be for alcohol and drugs patients. A number of voluntary providers, under strict clinical governance, currently provide further detox beds. I am engaged in discussions with the HSE and a number of the voluntary providers with regard to extending the range of detox. Not everybody wants inpatient or hospital based detox. What is important is not just the availability of detox, but a continuum of care. We must ensure that when people have gone through the detox process other treatment options are available to them to follow up. We are anxious that these options, such as supported housing, training and education, appropriate health support, child care, etc., be in place and available so that people can make progress. This has been developed successfully in some areas.
Deputy Ring also raised the issue of drug testing in the workplace. Some protocols have been drawn up in co-operation between the Irish Council of Trade Unions and IBEC on voluntary testing in the workplace. The Health and Safety Authority is charged with that area. I expect the issue will prove problematic as there are legal and civil liberties issues involved that need to be resolved. There are also issues about the efficacy of the testing mechanism. Some groups that say they have the ultimate test available have met us and we have referred them to the Garda to check the reliability of the tests. They need to be able to stand up in court. We all remember the difficulties with regard to breathalysing in the early days.
I agree with Deputy Upton that we cannot just focus on cocaine. All the evidence suggests that people who dabble in drugs or habitual users use more than one substance. Unfortunately, one of the substances they tend to use also is alcohol. We are exploring, as part of the review of the national drugs strategy and with the national working group on alcohol, how the strategies on alcohol and illicit drugs could be more effectively aligned. I am under no illusions and I am advised that there are some difficulties but it has been done elsewhere and we should spare no effort in trying to ensure, in so far as is possible, a unified strategy for drugs and alcohol.
In reply to Deputy Upton, the steering group is composed of all the participants in the national drugs strategy. It is not the Government's strategy; the community and voluntary sector is heavily represented as are the National Youth Council, the Garda Síochána and various State agencies. It has a membership of 22 people and includes medical and non-medical people. The group will invite submissions. I will travel the country as before and clusters of meetings of various people will take place. I met some of the people from the community and voluntary sector the day before yesterday to talk about how that might be done for that sector. I envisage wide-ranging consultation and written submissions. To be blunt about it, I regard this committee as an essential part of the consultation. I compliment both the Dáil and the Seanad for the way both Houses have engaged on this issue, in a way I have not seen before in my 11 years in the House.
There is a vote in the House. We will have another opportunity to meet the Minister of State. Does the committee wish to suspend the sitting or should the Minister of State conclude now?
Does the Minister of State wish to return?
Quite a number of people raised questions and I have not had time to answer them. I am quite prepared to wait.
We will suspend the sitting and resume after the vote.
Sitting suspended at 5.15 p.m. and resumed at 5.30 p.m.
I was replying to Deputy Upton's question. She also spoke about the youth services. Many of the newer projects particularly in urban areas are specifically targeted at those who might be at risk of drug misuse. Some of them, of which I would be aware, do things like midnight leagues etc. and would be open quite late at night. Someone else raised the issue of youth cafés, which I regard as an essential tool as part of the youth service. A review is being conducted on their future by, I believe, the Office of the Minister for Children. Our Department through the national drugs strategy team supports some of them but not all. Sometimes it is a question of supporting workers in them rather than physical buildings.
On the issue of targeting dealers at a lower level, the Garda has begun to train profilers in each Garda district who would be able to do the same kind of work the Criminal Assets Bureau does at a broader level. From discussions with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Brian Lenihan, I am aware he is anxious that this be extended and continued.
Senator Ó Murchú raised the role of the media to which I adverted in my earlier comments. While the vast majority of the media have been have been extremely responsible some elements have not been so. I understand that representatives of RTE appeared before an Oireachtas committee before Christmas and its approach to the glamorising of cocaine use was raised. The Senator asked whether there is ongoing interaction with the media. To a certain extent there is because the programme the HSE is developing will obviously be developed in conjunction with the providers. I do not believe there is any formalised interaction with them. However, the HSE, which has primary responsibility for these types of initiatives, is probably working through its advertising agents in this regard.
Deputy Michael Kennedy took the Chair.
Deputy White asked how many drugs task forces there are. There are 14 local drugs tasks forces and ten regional drugs task forces. All areas of the country are now covered. Senator Doherty adverted to this matter. I notice that many regional drugs task forces are working on almost a county basis. I met the north-western regional task force before Christmas. It has initiatives rolled out specifically in Donegal with some in Sligo and elsewhere. All areas of the country have coverage at this stage.
The regional awareness campaigns that Deputy White mentioned will be put in place. I am anxious for us to work on those on an ongoing basis. I regard it extremely serious that drug dealing would take place in public service vehicles, whether they are busses, trains or even smaller vehicles like taxis and hackneys, where, particularly in rural areas, the owner or driver would be known to the users. Nonetheless even making use of confidential telephone lines and like contacts that people can have with their trusted community gardaí should be used in such situations.
The issue of drug dealing outside schools has come up from time to time. The Garda is aware of it. Activity by plain-clothes gardaí tends to be the approach that is taken. I know that school managements have engaged themselves with the Garda to ensure that this activity is stemmed.
As Deputy O'Mahony said, programmes are often devised to assist parents and schools in diverting young people from drugs. The Deputy also spoke about the cost of providing services. The chairperson of the National Advisory Committee on Drugs, Dr. Des Corrigan, informed us at last week's launch of the all-island survey that there has been a high level of uptake from teachers of the training programmes available to them. While the implementation of the On My Own Two Feet and Walk Tall programmes has been satisfactory, it does not mean that every person in every school knows everything they need to know about the dangers of drugs. We need to constantly encourage people to work harder on what they are doing.
I recently launched the latest phase of an interesting initiative in County Kerry that is being organised by the south-western regional drugs task force. Under the initiative, a mobile classroom goes around to small rural schools to teach children of all ages about this issue. Four year old junior infants can learn about the effect of broccoli and baked beans on their systems. Leaving certificate students can learn about what happens when people take drugs such as ecstasy, cannabis, cocaine and heroin. A computer model is used by highly trained facilitators who work with schools. The initiative is achieving some positive outcomes. Similar initiatives are widely used in the UK, particularly in areas which are not densely populated. Perhaps we can develop the concept in this country. Many of the parenting programmes used throughout the country originated in the US but have been customised to make them appropriate to Irish circumstances. They are starting to show results.
Deputy O'Mahony also spoke about the need to educate young people. As someone who has worked in the education sector, I am very supportive of educational initiatives. We are working closely with those involved in the sector. Many of the regional drugs task forces provide support for youth organisations and schools, etc. Perhaps individual schools which are seeking assistance should contact the task force in the local area.
The Garda can be very effective in making local drug seizures when they concentrate their efforts at local level. When the Garda deployed a dedicated drugs unit in my local area of Dublin last November, I was amazed by the amount of activity that was generated by the force and the number of seizures which were made as a result. Many of the small-time operators in the locality were flushed out of the system. The Garda is anxious to take similar steps in rural areas. I am aware that rural gardaí are sometimes asked to be experts in everything. In the 2008 policing plan, the new Garda Commissioner has placed a particular emphasis on the drugs area.
Deputy Cyprian Brady said that the education of parents is crucial. He is probably aware that the family support network is being supported under the national drugs strategy. The network is involved in educational support work with parents. I am anxious for us to focus on this area as part of the next phase of the strategy. It is important we educate parents, other family members and work colleagues. A former Member of the Oireachtas recently said that one of her friends asked her to outline the difference between hash and cocaine. Serious work needs to be done to educate parents. I am anxious to align the alcohol and drugs strategies, something I have discussed with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
It was suggested that it is time to reconsider the work of local drugs task forces. Many of the first task forces to be established have done a substantial amount of good work in line with best practice. I believe their efforts continue to be of high value. I am aware that the task forces constantly examine whether they are meeting the objectives they have set for themselves. Such studies were done as part of the mid-term review of the current strategy and as part of other internal evaluations. The local drugs task forces are keen to ensure they successfully undertake the many actions which are set out in the national drugs strategy. It is a daunting task.
I dispute Senator Doherty's assertion that we are losing the drugs battle. I have never used the words "battle" or "war" in this context. We will always face challenges when dealing with the drugs issue. We need to constantly develop best practice in this regard. I agree that the position would be much worse if we did not have the strategy. I will never be complacent or satisfied that we are achieving enough. The Senator questioned whether sufficient resources are being committed to this area. The Government gave a commitment in the programme for Government to extend the young people's facilities and services fund. Work in that regard will start later this year. We will continue to consider emerging needs, such as education and awareness, as they arise.
Senator Buttimer, as one might expect, complimented the campaign being undertaken by the Irish Examiner, which I support. I agree that we may need to do more work on the strategy to engage parents. A great deal of work is being done in Cork on detox beds, which were mentioned by the Senator. We look forward to further improvements in that regard. While youth cafés are doing good work, I have been involved in youth work for long enough to know that it is easy to end up with a white elephant when one tries to develop services for young people. I am not saying that will happen in the case of youth cafés. I am anxious to develop multi-user facilities which will stand the test of time. Youth cafés are doing that very well at the moment.
Reference was also made to the drug courts. As members are aware, the current drug courts cater for the Dublin 1 postal district only. I have discussed the possible extension of the remit of the courts with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I have met the judges and some of the staff of the courts who feel they would be able to cope with a modest extension in the courts' workload. I will have further discussions with the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and his officials in the coming weeks to explore how such an extension can be achieved. Like Senator Buttimer, I am quite keen to replicate in other areas the good work that is being done in the drug courts at present. The District Court judges involved in the courts, who are deeply committed to their work, have developed a great deal of best practice. The Health Service Executive, the education sector and the probation and welfare service have provided resources to follow up the work of the drug courts.
I wish to respond at this stage to some of the other questions asked by Senator Doherty. I agree that we need to invest more money in facilities. We will roll that out over the next while. While everyone wants facilities, the officials dealing with this area, who have more experience of it than I have, argue that it sometimes takes a great deal of time to get a project through the local authority planning stages before it proceeds to construction, etc. We are getting there. We are making significant progress.
The issue of a Supplementary Estimate does not arise because we received an increase of approximately 14% in our Vote in this year's budget. We might come back and look for the support of the committee when we have spent those funds.
It has been suggested that the regions covered by the drugs task forces are too large. Many of the task forces have decided that working within a county or sub-county is a good working model. There seems to be a great deal of cross-Border co-operation around County Donegal. The authorities in places such as Ballymena, Enniskillen and Omagh are involved in family support services, for example. We hope to co-operate with service providers in Northern Ireland as we develop residential services in the Border region.
The report on rehabilitation and cocaine use included a recommendation to place greater emphasis on counselling and developing counselling expertise. The Waterford Institute of Technology and Leeds University are validating a course in this area. While many counselling services are available, the right mix of skills may not always be available in a particular region. I have met representatives of some of the certifying bodies and the Department is anxious to engage with the third level sector to determine how we can further develop the range of expertise through mainstream third level qualifications by offering, for example, modules on counselling.
Much counselling expertise is being developed at local level and some of the best practice has been developed using the experience of those who have been working at the coalface and have seen how counselling impacts at community level. They have developed their own syllabus which has been validated by universities and third level colleges around the country. I will do my best to answer any other questions members may have.
I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive replies. I refer to two specific issues relating to my constituency. Arising from the shooting last weekend of a convicted criminal, the media has made repeated references to rival gangs in named areas. This is a negative development. I ask the Minister of State, in his capacity of dealing with drug issues, to ensure the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform makes available the resources needed to tackle these gangs. It is damaging to otherwise excellent, hard-working communities in which many residents are living in fear to be named repeatedly in the media.
The second issue is connected to a practice referred to by the Minister of State, namely, drug dealing outside schools. I have had reports from an area that small children, some as young as six or seven years, are being used as runners for bigger boys and drug dealers. A chain of command is working its way through every age group in the community. The youngsters, especially small children, buy into the system because they are bribed with money and, I understand, drugs. Will the Minister of State consider introducing family support initiatives to ensure the children in question are properly cared for at home and the necessary supports and interventions are available? While I am in favour of substantial investment in youth services, we must also note that if the children who use these facilities return to a dysfunctional family environment, as many of them do, we will lose the game a second time. Facilities and services must be made available to support parents in looking after their children and to prevent children from becoming the victims of older gangsters.
How is the performance of local drugs task forces evaluated? As part of the review of the national drugs strategy, will the Minster of State consider establishing a national drugs forum to facilitate engagement with a disparate group of people who may not be involved in the process? Such a step would create national impetus and enhance awareness of the strategy in many communities where people often feel voiceless.
I will confine my contribution to asking two questions, although I hope to have further discussion of these matters at later meetings. Having three Ministries, the Departments ofCommunity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Health and Children and Justice, Equality and Law Reform, dealing with the drugs issue creates a problem. That which is one man’s business is nobody else’s business and that which is everybody’s business is nobody’s business. Clarity is needed in this matter. Does the Minister of State plan to discuss with his ministerial colleagues how to address the problem of having three Departments dealing with one issue? The current approach does not work.
My second concern relates to an issue I raised in a recent parliamentary question addressed to the Minister of State. Two sets of rules apply in this country, one for the poor and weak and one for the upper class and rich. The latter appear to get away with things. I am concerned that private airports are being used to import drugs. They are subject only to spot checks and of the 14 or 15 people found to be in possession of drugs for their own use, not one has been prosecuted. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is sending out the wrong message, namely, that those from working class areas who are found with drugs will be prosecuted, while those found to be in possession of drugs having arrived in a private aeroplane will not be prosecuted. Greater security and more checks are needed at private airports. Criminals are sophisticated and have the resources and funds to hire private aeroplanes and use private airports. Every private aeroplane must be checked because drugs are big business. Those who do not work, draw social welfare, live in big houses and drive Mercedes cars should be investigated by the Criminal Assets Bureau. It is well known in local communities that many of these people are dabbling in drugs. Action is needed.
On a point of clarification, my earlier point regarding the introduction of a Supplementary Estimate referred to the young people's facilities and services fund, rather than the overall drugs budget. Should the regional drugs task forces not be able to avail of this fund given that it is currently only available to local drug task force areas, all but two of which are located in the Dublin catchment area?
We need a multidimensional approach to tackling the drugs problem, which includes ensuring that the Garda has sufficient resources available to it. I commend the Garda and Customs and Excise on their successes in preventing illegal drug shipments entering the country and prosecuting individuals in connection with drugs detected in the State. Does the Minister of State agree it is not acceptable that some counties do not have a dedicated drugs unit? I note the provisions of the 2008 Garda plan in this regard. Will the Minister of State seek assurances that each county will have a number of gardaí dedicated to tackling the drugs problem? None of us would be able to do our jobs if we had two or three other jobs or distractions. Similarly, tackling drugs requires a full-time response.
The Minister of State indicated that sub-committees of the regional task forces are working well in many counties which do not have a dedicated task force. Will he consider establishing these sub-committees as county task forces in the new plan and allocating them a budget on that basis, rather than allowing the regional task forces to allocate county budgets from their overall allocation? Such a measure would place the county task forces on a statutory footing.
Given the influence of pop stars, particularly on young people, will the Minister of State consider asking Bono to try to educate people on the misuse of drugs, particularly in view of his success on the issue of Third World debt?
In response to Deputy Upton, some of the best work is being done in the south inner city drugs task force area in her constituency. I agree it is a dreadful shame that such a small minority is giving the whole area a bad name. The Garda has targeted the area with additional resources under Operation Anvil and other operations for quite some time to combat the problem. Whatever resources can be usefully deployed will be made available to counter what is undoubtedly a difficulty in that area.
In terms of supports, for example for the families of six-year old children who might be used as runners, in part of that area there is a strong family support group. Family support almost started in the Crumlin-south inner city area. For example, breakfast clubs and after-school clubs are provided for children aged from five years up to 18 years which provide a link between the home and the school on a constant basis. That is part of the way forward, in addition to supporting parents with other programmes. Senator Upton has been at the launch of a number of those programmes at which I have been present.
Senator Buttimer asked how the task forces are evaluated. The short answer is rigorously. I was involved in several of them for the past ten years. Research companies independently evaluate the work of the drugs task forces. A value for money audit has been carried out on them on several occasions and, obviously, they are accountable to the office of the Comptroller and Auditor General.
I was a bit too modest about the increase we got in the budget. For the sake of accuracy, it is 28% rather than 14%, which does not make a great deal of difference.
I would not be averse to a national drugs forum but I am not certain that it is something one can continue on an ongoing basis. The consultation on which we will embark will involve people in their local communities. It is not just me. I am most anxious that we enable local communities with the help of the State agencies and Departments such as the Departments of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform and others to build what they regard as the appropriate response for them.
I am not trying to pass the parcel but I want to avoid the approach of those of us from on high coming to an area and telling people what suits them. I remember going to a drugs awareness week in Edenderry last October and was impressed by a local initiative that has the potential to be effective because the schools, the community development project, the partnership company and the Leader company were all involved. It is rare enough to find so many people singing off the same hymn sheet. That is the only effective way forward. This committee is as good as a national drug forum and it is probably where the best thinking has been done through both Houses of the Oireachtas. I hope that can continue. I do not exclude a national drugs forum but that is my view.
Deputy Ring's issue related to something being everybody's business and nobody's business. There is good engagement between my Department and various Departments and State agencies. We should not forget that I chaired the interdepartmental committee on drugs which meets approximately every two months. All of the various players are involved in that. We have an input into the national drugs strategy team also and I am a member of the Cabinet committee on social inclusion. There may well be a need as part of the next strategy to look at whether that is the correct structure.
A number of seizures have taken place at private airports. I agree that the Garda and the Revenue should clamp down on illegal activity. Senator Doherty is correct to say that where there is a dedicated drugs unit it tends to be more effective. Sometimes it takes a good while, as in our case, to build up the expertise and then one has the engagement with the local community. Local policing fora are an important first step in the local policing committees and they are beginning to have an effect. They involve local public representatives, the Garda and local authorities working together to gather a certain level of information. They are talking to each other and that is a good start. Sometimes dropping a drugs unit into an area without any preparation is not terribly productive.
In the south-eastern task force area I have seen a model that appears to be very successful. It has developed a way of working and it seems to have assigned budgets for various actions under a plan it has devised and is rolling out. My concern about setting up a further layer of bureaucracy is that sometimes the need for a rapid response can be delayed by the different layers one needs to go through. I do not suggest everything should be flexible and informal all the time but sometimes we are in danger of putting enormously complicated structures in place which inhibit action rather than enable action to take place.
The Vice Chairman asked a question about using celebrities. A number of individuals have offered their services and if schools and parents' groups are willing to work with these people that can be arranged. A number of these "celebrities" lent their names to the campaign by local radio stations in Dublin prior to Christmas and we can build on that. This approach has potential. I know schools that have done it. Sports figures are important role models and other celebrities like those mentioned by the Vice Chairman can be useful. It will complement what is already being done as part of the strategy. If schools, youth organisations, parents groups and others made the maximum possible use of what is available currently, it would go a long way and what the Vice Chairman is proposing would be an additional extra.
The reason I suggest it is that drugs and drink have an influential role at concerts and I think this approach is worth exploring both nationally and internationally.
I am of the view that we could usefully engage with many young people at events like the Oxegen festival and the Electric Picnic, among others. I probably could not go but some people around here could very well fit in.
The Minister of State is not ageist.
Our vintage equally goes to those concerts.
The Rolling Stones are doing well.
I am only looking for an invitation.
Perhaps we can all go with the Minister of State.
I thank the Minister of State and his officials for their attendance. It is clear the Minister of State is very much on top of his brief. I thank members for their contributions.
The joint committee adjourned at 6.08 p.m. until 4.15 p.m. on Wednesday, 13 February 2008.