I welcome the following members of the Irish Mining and Exploration Group who are here to discuss the issue of mine closure policy and future developments in the industry: John Elmes, chairman of the Irish Mining and Exploration Group; Stefan Mansson, managing director of Lisheen Mines; and Maria Flood from Minco. I do not think Ms Flood is with us, is she?
Mine Closure Policy and Future Developments in Industry: Discussion with Irish Mining and Exploration Group
She is on her way.
Also in attendance are Seán Callery of Lisheen Mines and Tadg Farrell of Boliden Tara Mines. They are all very welcome to this morning's meeting, which is taking place in difficult weather conditions.
Before we begin, I draw the attention of the witnesses to the position on privilege. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege with regard to the evidence they give to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given, and they are asked to respect parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.
I ask Mr. Elmes to begin his presentation.
Mr. John Elmes
I thank the Chairman and committee members for the opportunity to address them today. I will introduce my colleagues again because, due to the weather conditions, some of our members are absent today. My colleagues are Stefan Mansson, managing director of Galmoy Mines, Seán Callery, mine closure engineer at Lisheen Mines, and Tadg Farrell, finance director at Boliden Tara Mines. A number of people are not present: Mr. Arnqvist, managing director of Boliden Tara Mines, is absent, as is Ms Flood from Minco.
Not seen and fully behind us are more than 1,200 employees who are employed directly in the industry, as well as more than 3,000 who are employed indirectly. This does not include the many more employees in the exploration sector, a part of the business that is particularly vibrant at the moment. IMEG is working with the relevant Government agencies to ensure that Irish mining and exploration will continue to be an important and growing part of the Irish economy. In my presentation today I will spell that out in more detail.
Like every other sector, the Irish mining and exploration industry faces challenges - for example, in the area of new investment and in our ongoing efforts to improve the legislative and regulatory framework in this country. In this context, the key issue we wish to communicate to members today is that our industry is seeking an appropriate timeframe for after-care. Quite simply, all licensed mines in Ireland are currently subject to perpetual after-care, which is essentially impossible to achieve.
Over the past 40 years, a string of base metal discoveries have made Ireland a major zinc and lead mining country. Current mines include Tara Mines in County Meath, Lisheen Mines in County Tipperary and Galmoy Mine in County Kilkenny. These mines are being operated by reputable international companies to the highest safety, environmental and regulatory standards. The fact that these companies can successfully operate in Ireland has led to an increase in exploration activity in recent years, with very encouraging results - in particular, the exciting new discovery at Pallas Green in County Limerick by the Xstrata-Minco joint venture. Many other companies are also active in this country; I am led to believe that more than 528 prospecting licences are active, of which Boliden is prospecting on more than 100.
It should be borne in mind that our industry is cyclical. We have finite resources, and for this reason our mining industry is going into a decline. Galmoy is essentially in closure mode, while Lisheen is facing closure in late 2013 or early 2014, and Tara has a current mine life up to 2019. Significantly, the lead-in time from discovery to production averages ten years. All of the mines have active exploration programmes.
My message to members today is that we should continue to improve the regulatory framework in order to encourage inward investment. In that context, IMEG fully acknowledges that the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources has statutory responsibility for exploration and development of all minerals. Our industry also recognises and fully supports the exploration and mining division of the Department, which is doing its utmost to support this inward investment as well as administering the regulatory aspects of Ireland's mineral industry.
With regard to Irish mining and the global industry, there are some important statistics which underpin Ireland's importance as a major base metal producer on a global scale. Our industry is well recognised and respected internationally. Members can see that in 2009 alone, Ireland accounted for some 36% of European zinc mine production, and, as I said earlier, there is further significant potential in this regard.
On the subject of environmental management and closure, all of our mines are funded for the post-closure and after-care period. Our operations are closely monitored by the regulatory agencies and we welcome this. There are regular reviews, and our mine sites have robust, well engineered designs. Important steps are being taken to convert some mine sites for sustainable secondary use, which is fully supported by the regulatory agencies. For example, our mine is in active discussions, as are other mines, with the IDA and others with the aim of seeking other business investments on these sites after their closure. Many of these sites have excellent facilities; for example, good road networks leading in, large land banks, power supply, sub-stations and potable water.
The slide on after-care addresses the key concern we bring to the committee, namely, perpetual after-care. Forever means forever but no company can be around that long. Our industry requires a finite timeframe for after-care that is site-specific and performance-based. We propose a period of no more than 30 years, which is very much in line with the relevant EU directives, for example, those concerning landfill, carbon capture and geological storage. Perpetual aftercare is simply not referred to in these directives.
I come to our key conclusions. Ireland has a world-class zinc industry in terms of best practices and value for exploration and investment. Mining investment requires clarity and certainty in long-term licence, planning and statutory obligations. Continued support and growth of the industry is essential for our future, to be promoted through IMEG and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. Significantly, today mines are becoming positive legacy sites. We are all aware of some sites that do not have a good legacy; we acknowledge this. As I mentioned, these sites are being converted into centres of sustainable secondary use, for example, in post-closure activities such as renewable energy or wind farming, centres of excellence for sport, geothermal projects, pump storage potential, etc. I reiterate there are significant potable water resources on some mine sites.
We have recommendations. By adopting legislation which limits the post-closure after-care period to no more than 30 years, Ireland will send a very positive message to mining and exploration companies worldwide. One should remember our industry may not be so well known in Ireland but it is very well known and respected internationally. In short, our message is that companies should see a clear mechanism for exiting before they enter. That is the message we should send out from this country in order to attract further inward investment.
Further details can be obtained from our industry discussion paper which was circulated. I also refer members to the recent IMEG publication in the Mining Journal which offers very detailed reading. On behalf of IMEG I thank the committee for this opportunity. We are available to take any questions.
I thank Mr. Elmes for that comphrensive overview of the current situation and summary of what is being sought by IMEG. I call Senator O'Toole.
I thank the delegation for coming in on such a bad morning. On this side we have lost some of our people, one due to a fracture, I believe.
On the business side, Mr. Elmes made a most convincing and compelling case, as anybody can see. Of course, we must look at this from a different point of view, something the delegates will not be surprised to hear. Mr. Elmes stated that the notion of perpetuity is illogical because a company will not be involved forever. Nobody can argue against that. However, there are some issues in terms of what we, as legislators, must do or recommend to a Minister. Mr. Elmes mentioned that a project should be finite, which I understand, and performance based. He spoke about residuals but gave no clear indication as to what that means. Our starting position must be that we want to be able to say to a local community that before a mining company moves out the site would be restored to good environmental order, offering no kind of threat to the local community or environment, and all appropriate steps would be put in place. I do not know what such steps might be so I pose the question. What does "performance-based" mean? Mr. Elmes used a qualifying word when he spoke of residuals but I cannot remember it. However, it was not an absolute term. What did he mean by that?
When a mine sells on to a wind farm or for other use does the responsibility for aftercare accompany the sale or does the mine retain the responsibility even if other developments take place on the site? How does this suit local communities? To us, it is about the environment, being performance-based, and concerns what happens when a mine is sold on. What does Mr. Elmes suggest happens to a site after a sale? Let us imagine a period of 30 years which will be up tomorrow. I do not know how long it is since the group left Silvermines, for example, but it seems to be a long time. What does Mr. Elmes propose should happen after 30 years? Does the mine end its ownership of the land or merely cease to care for it? Does the responsibility return to the State? These are the questions we will be asked but they have not been addressed by Mr. Elmes.
Mr. John Elmes
Yes, there are many points-----
We shall take questions first and will then refer to the delegation for answers. Mr. Elmes' colleagues may contribute at that stage if they so wish.
My apologies for arriving late. It is nice to come to a meeting and see Mr. Elmes back in action. As to the mining perspective, I can only look to my own county for the best and worst scenarios. Minorco Lisheen gave an outstanding example of how to deal with the community in north Tipperary, particularly with regard to the Lisheen mines. The difficulty is that mining companies change very often. A company may no longer be in control because it has sold out and one does not know the attitude of the new company. There is a concern in the region as to what will happen when the mine closes. Mr. Elmes may be able to give us some good news and perhaps may announce an extension to that mine. Will he give an update of what is proposed? I have discussed this matter with him. Excellent community relationships were built up in the area. However, there is a fear that when the company changes ownership the attitude of the new incumbent will not be known. It is likely that the mine will change ownership again when it eventually closes, which is a concern because the eventual owners may not have the same attitude or relationship with the community. How can Mr. Elmes assure the people of the area that the mine will be closed to the standards required and that the necessary finance will be available to effect this? It is most important that it not be left to the county council to pick up the pieces.
I refer to what happened in the worst-case scenario, the Silvermines. As we speak, the community in that area is struggling to build a new school. The major problem is landfill from the mine, which must be disposed of, but no one is co-operating with the community as to where it should go or what should happen to it. The cost of this is a prohibitive factor for a rural community which is being put through a great deal of pain to establish a basic facility, a local school to provide education for their children. The surrounding area is in a bad state although a great amount of money was invested into it. We had to fight long and hard with the Government over the years to put a scheme in place to rehabilitate the mines. Farmers and every sector of the community have suffered over a long period because the mining company simply upped and walked away from the site. The trouble started with a dust blow that affected every neighbour, child and parish in the area. The farmers lost their animals and water quality suffered but nobody did anything about it. The mining company had to be dragged in screaming but eventually got away practically scot-free. Mr. Elmes may correct me if I am wrong. The Government made a major investment into the site which is now coming to fruition although we are left with difficulties. While we can accept that things have improved a good deal, a concern remains because of the trading within companies. Let us consider other mines such as Arigna or Ballingarry Mines in south Tipperary. Different standards applied to these coal mines. Nonetheless the communities were left to pick up the pieces. I seek some reassurance from Mr. Elmes that things will be left in an idyllic state when they leave the mines in Lisheen eventually.
I note the reference in the discussion paper produced by the Irish Mining and Exploration Group to the World Bank study, which made certain recommendations with regard to the closure of mines. The group states that it agrees with many of the recommendations outlined in the 2008 World Bank study. However, it does not agree with some of the recommendations. Will the group expand on the areas of disagreement?
It is remarkable that I recall attending the opening of the Galmoy mine in Kilkenny only a short number of years ago. I note from the presentation that it is in the process of winding down. Ireland is unique in that our mining industry tends to have a lifespan of between 15 and 20 years because of the nature of the resources being mined. Deputy Coonan commented on the history or legacy of the Silvermines. The position is similar, to a certain extent, with Tynagh Mines and has left a sour taste in the minds of many people. It is in the interests of the industry to reflect on the matter if it wishes to be welcomed by communities. We hope there will be many more finds which prove to be commercially viable such that extraction can be made. It is in the interests of the industry that a process exists whereby the community and everyone involved in the sector are comfortable that when the mine is exhausted, some after-care is put in place that will resolve the issues which have come to light with previous mine closures.
Mr. John Elmes
I can take some of the questions and I will ask my colleagues to make any additional points. We must make a clear distinction between some of the poor legacy sites and modern mining. When we were putting together our closure plans we examined very carefully what did and did not work in Ireland, as did my colleagues at Galmoy and Tara. This was the first building block for our closure plan. I trust this does not sound offensive, but they belonged to an era when permission and planning conditions were different. For example, there was no EPA. The conditions were not as numerous as they are today. At the time, European legislation was absent as well. Regulation has come on in leaps and bounds. Our sites are heavily constrained in this respect.
Is the proposal this morning to do with mines in operation at present?
Mr. John Elmes
Correct. It also relates to future mines. In recognition of the legacy from the past, all the modern generation of mines have taken on board the necessary considerations to the extent that stakeholders and communities have been mentioned. Some of the modern generation of mine sites have commenced with what we call progressive rehabilitation of the sites. What does that mean? We have started closure activities well in advance of the operation ceasing production. The aim is to put together closure plans that we can work through with the regulatory agencies, the communities and other stakeholders, such as the State, which was mentioned today. It owns the minerals. They can monitor progress with us as we move towards closure. We do not wait until the end. We have commenced that activity already. This has brought remarkable reassurance to our communities and agencies and they review the progress in this regard. That is a big step.
Deputy Coonan referred to the best and worst in north Tipperary.
How does the group measure performance? How do the companies know when to leave? There is no point in putting a number of years on it. Mr. Elmes stated it would be performance-based. How do we reach a performance level where people can walk away? What happens to what is left? Who owns it? Who is in charge of it?
Mr. John Elmes
I will come to that. All our activities are monitored and we capture scientific and technical data. We must meet specific performance criteria laid down by the EPA and others. We work to onerous and rigorous planning conditions on all the sites. Where does this take us? At Lisheen we have a five-year active after-care period and a further five years after that at a minimum. We will take all the information and data from our closure activities and essentially reduce risk down to a completely acceptable level for the agencies and communities alike. Our intention is to reduce the risk dramatically on all the sites. That is where our closure plan takes us. As I stated in my presentation, this is where the performance-based approach kicks in. We will be held to account in this regard and we fully support it.
Mr. Seán Callery
We engage regularly with the key authorities to agree and implement the success criteria. It is only through the approval of the authorities that these success criteria can be set down. We are required to do all that is necessary to achieve them. Only then is it possible for the authorities to consider releasing the mine operators from their obligations on the site. The regulatory framework is onerous, as Mr. Elmes indicated, and we accept this.
Mr. John Elmes
I will try to answer Senator O'Toole's question regarding the future uses of the site. Only at that juncture do we consider the hand-over of the site. The risk must be reduced to a level acceptable by all the agencies before that can be considered.
Some other questions arise. I believe I speak for Galmoy and Tara mines as well when I say that our closure plans and the activities we have under way at present are being seen as best practice worldwide, which we must not forget. We have taken this to a new dimension. For example, our parent company, Anglo American, is planning to develop a large copper mine in Alaska in a pristine environmental situation. Members of the community from Pebble – the name of the project – have been sent to Lisheen to examine what we are doing and to give those communities assurance with regard to what we can do and what has been done in Ireland. Ireland and its mining sector is being leaned on very heavily. Others come and look at us because we are seen as best practice, an important point to bear in mind. They would not come here if we were not getting it right.
Mr. Tadg Farrell
I will outline a local example. Tara Mines has just received planning permission for an extension to its tailings management facility. The process was carried out in full consultation with the local community. They had full access to all the technical data available and to the management team in the mine and were in a position to consult with them. In previous applications there have been appeals to An Bord Pleanála. In this instance, the planning permission was approved and not objected to locally. Hopefully, we will begin construction in early 2011 on the new project. That was done in full consultation with the local community. There is rigorous monitoring from the agencies which we mentioned. Obviously the agencies involved are the local planning authority, the EPA, which has a very strong role in monitoring sites, and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, which all have regular contact with all three operating mines.
Mr. John Elmes
I will ask Mr. Callery to answer the question on the World Bank financial report and elaborate on the areas of disagreement.
Mr. Seán Callery
There are no real areas of disagreement. We are trying to say that the main thrust of the World Bank study is that an aftercare period should be a finite period, something with which we agree. Coupled with that, we also fully support and agree with the need to implement robust closure planning processes which return a site to an environmentally friendly state. I hope that clarifies the point.
Mr. John Elmes
There was another question on mines and operations being sold on. I am sure most people are aware that Lisheen mine has been sold to another entity. The sale has not yet been completed. In answer to the question on future responsibilities, the new owners will be bound by the same regulatory conditions as we are. We place a lot of emphasis on the fact that the exploration and mining division vets applications very rigorously. There are fully trained professionals who are acting not just in the interests of the State but for the benefit of the community and everybody else. All of that has to be approved by the Minister. I am reassured that our new owner will be tested very rigorously in that respect. Any other takeover will also be subject to the same scrutiny.
The difficulty is the lack of awareness on the part of the community. There is concern among the community that it will be like Mr. Chopra coming in to sort out the economy and that the new owners may not have the same relationship with the community and come in with a specific job to do, namely, close the mine and get out. In that context it may not co-operate as well as Anglo American did with the community. I have acknowledged the delegation has done an excellent job with the community. The concern is that the new owners will come in gung-ho, railroad the changes and then leave.
Mr. John Elmes
Of course, but it is the intention to keep the existing Lisheen management in place. People like Mr. Callery, who has engineering skills in mine closure, and Mr. Mansson, our environmental manager, are people with key skills they have built up over the years and learned from the mistakes in the country. It is intended to keep all of these skills on board to ensure it will be done responsibly.
There is the utmost confidence in Mr. Callery but it is nice to get that assurance publicly. I have not heard it before.
I have no questions but I welcome the delegation. It should be facilitated in whatever way possible. We need to keep the jobs here. I am impressed with the presentation and the commitment given about the community. I can only speak from my limited experience of mines. I knew the people in Tara Mines many years ago and happened to set up the district round table in Navan at the same time that it came to Navan. The company was well thought of in the community, had a major input, did a fantastic job in integrating into the community and was nothing but helpful to the community.
There is a mine in County Longford which the delegation might visit, buy and open again, namely, Keel mine in Moydow. I knew all the management and staff there.
Did Deputy Bannon own a mine?
His mine is at the other end of it and is exhausted. When Keel came to Longford the management and staff all mixed with the community and got involved with every aspect of it, including sporting, cultural and social activities. It was a big asset to Longford, apart from money, wages and supplies. There is water there now but there may be some way of getting rid of it. At one time I supplied it with at least ten tonnes of cement a week. They were good people but unfortunately the mine is closed. I ask the delegation to visit the site.
Mr. John Elmes
That is not a problem. All of the prospecting licences are active in the country. Many of the sub-economic deposits are being revisited. As metal prices change and economics dictates some of the old sites will most definitely be revisited. Often such sites are the first place exploration activity kicks off in order to try to find new resources.
This might be a good time to answer the Chairman's question on life extensions. There is a very active near mine exploration programme in Lisheen. As I said in my presentation, we deal with very finite resources and reserves and can almost map out to the day, month and year when they will run out. The exploration campaign is yielding some fruit and we are reasonably confident that we could extend the life of Lisheen by one year at the most.
Boliden is very active in exploration in the country, something on which Mr. Farrell may want to comment.
Mr. Tadg Farrell
As Mr. Elmes said earlier, there are over 100 active licences in the country and we are exploring not just in Navan but in the midlands, Limerick and Wexford. Tullamore, in particular, was an area of significant interest for us over the past couple of years. We have a very active exploration campaign and as a mining company we would like to discover significant resources in Ireland for the development of a mine.
It was asked whether money would be available for rehabilitation. I wish to assure the committee that as part of the close monitoring by the EPA, the local planning authority and the Department, we are obliged to provide full provision of funds for rehabilitation before we close. That is the case in all three mines and the money has already been set aside. The measure of that money has been done independently by independent consultants as part of our IPPCL review which takes place on a regular basis.
Mr. John Elmes
Access to those funds is being negotiated with the regulator. Is it fair to say that in the case of Galmoy it has concluded?
Mr. Stefan Mansson
Yes, it is fair to say that.
Mr. John Elmes
Lundin is also very active in exploration in Ireland. The modern generation of companies here are seeking to enlarge the business. It is a difficult business because it is very cyclical and the lead-in time is significant. A lot of effort is under way. We are bringing the committee some very good news today. It is an active and vibrant industry and is bringing a lot of revenue into the Exchequer on an annual basis. We have no difficulty working to the strictest of regulations in this country and they are welcome. We benefit positively from them, as do our international owners for the reasons I have given, namely, they can use them as examples of best practice.
How many members are in the Irish Mining and Exploration Group, IMEG? Does it represent all companies involved in mining in Ireland?
Mr. John Elmes
We represent all of the mining and exploration groups. I do not know if there is anything else we can add to that.
Mr. Tadg Farrell
It is voluntary. One joins IBEC first and then becomes part of the IMEG sub-group. One can opt in and out of the body. Members have joined it, left and come back again over the years as their level of activity in the country has waned and flowed.
The players involved in mining and exploration are represented by the IMEG.
Mr. Tadg Farrell
Absolutely.
I welcome the announcement made about Lisheen mine being extended for a year. It is a small consolation; it would be better if it was extended for ten years. Were additional deposits identified or has it linked up with Galmoy, as rumour has it? Why is it only for a year? Does that mean the resources are depleted or is it a question of finance? When the delegates speak about legislation, is there some legislation we should introduce that would help the mining industry in Ireland to increase employment and the lifespan of mines such as Lisheen? In regard to the funds issue, are those funds for communities or rehabilitation and would it be possible to consider, as an act of goodwill, funding a school in the Silvermines bearing in mind what that community has suffered over the years from the bad era of mining?
Mr. John Elmes
On the funding issue we receive many applications. Certainly in the area of Lisheen and in the other mines, substantial contributions have been made to those communities.
I acknowledged that at the outset.
Mr. John Elmes
All I can say is that people should make a submission. As I understand it, Silvermines is under State control and the rehabilitation work there is being effected through Government money. It might be an opportune time to invite the committee to come and look at some of our mines and some of the work that is under way. That would give everyone much reassurance.
Can Mr. Elmes hold out for longer than a year? Does he hold out any hope?
Mr. John Elmes
The Deputy asked if there is anything the Government can do. It is a finite resource and reserve. The activity at Lisheen, for example, and Tara exceeds 30 years. Our life is shorter. The exploration activity commenced in the mid-1980s and was unremitting; they have been active during all those years. We would like to think we have drilled and prospected as much as we possibly can, so it is not a question of economics at this juncture but that the reserves are simply not in the ground. That is the real difficulty we have in trying to extend the life of the mine. We are committed to doing everything we can to continue in mine operation. It would be great for Lisheen. We all have a weather eye on Pallas Green and if that becomes a mine, all the skills and employment at Lisheen and at Galmoy potentially could be transferred to Limerick. That is something we all have to keep in mind.
Mr. Seán Callery
We believe the mines at Lisheen and other sites can be transitioned into sustainable secondary art pieces. That is a very important feature of sustainable closure planning. Lisheen pumps upwards of 18 million litres of water out of the ground every day. That is a resource that could be used in future and should be considered. We have also built a wind farm and there are other potential secondary uses for the sites, such as pump storage power schemes and so forth. It has huge potential, not to mention the infrastructure, which is first class. Given that the sites are located in areas that in most cases are away from built-up areas, that is something that should be considered and supported.
On the question of the wind farms, has the land been sold?
Mr. Seán Callery
No. It is under lease.
Mr. John Elmes
To underpin what Mr. Seán Callery has said, there is real potential in all these sites and we will exhaust that to the end to try to bring additional jobs to Lisheen when it closes. There are approximately 400 people employed at Lisheen, approximately 70 working at Galmoy and almost 700 at Tara. Tara has a much longer life. We do not. We will do everything possible to attract other businesses to Lisheen and we are working with Government agencies to try to effect that.
Mr. Tadg Farrell
Tara Mines, which started out in the late 1960s and went into production in 1977, was a 60 million tonne mine and was due to finish before the end of 2000. Today in 2010 we are still looking to 2019. With the advance of exploration one never knows what will happen.
That is what I was hoping to hear from Mr. Elmes in regard to Lisheen but obviously-----
Mr. Tadg Farrell
There is always hope with exploration that something new will be discovered. Tara discovered a significant new section of the ore body 300 m deeper than we were mining in the early 2000s and that gave us a whole new lease of life.
The Deputy asked what legislation could be advanced. Obviously, giving companies comfort to come into the country with a clear closure plan is of great significance to mining. If one wants to attract mining dollars into Ireland, an entry and an exit mechanism is vital to enable them understand the process. Dealing with the period of after-care is very significant for mining in Ireland today.
Mr. John Elmes
It is in line with what is happening elsewhere in the world. What Mr. Tadg Farrell has said is correct; we represent best practice. For that reason the exploration business in our country is vibrant as we speak and we have proven we can operate and meet the very strict regulatory requirements. If we can operate there, that will obviously attract other investment. Deputy Coonan asked what can be done. I can only underpin what Mr. Tadg Farrell has said; we are not asking for much. This is an important step that could be taken in the legislative framework to promote our business in this country.
Mr. Seán Callery
There is another point I wish to add about the development of skills. Each of the operations has a large workforce but they are also highly skilled in diverse disciplines such as engineering, sciences, management and accounting - the whole gamut of professional and technical disciplines. There is a major educational aspect to what we do and that is something to consider.
Is retraining provided for in the closure plans?
Mr. Seán Callery
It is.
On behalf of the committee I thank the delegation for its presentation. We had some difficulties in getting here and I commend the delegation on arranging to be present. We have lost some of our members as well. At this juncture it is fair to say that operations of mining in Ireland have improved substantially. The mere fact we do not get complaints about mining now is evidence that the delegation has run a good operation. I wish the delegation success in its prospecting and I hope it finds many more valuable seams. I know the esteem in which Mr. John Elmes is held not just in the mining sector but in the community as well. The delegation has a very eminent and capable leader in him.