JOINT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Sep 2005

Adult Literacy: Presentations.

Vice Chairman (Deputy O’Sullivan)

I hope our guests have had an opportunity to make themselves comfortable. Is the proposed timetable for today's meeting, which has been circulated to the members of the joint committee, agreed? Agreed. Apologies have been received from the Chairman of the committee, Deputy Michael Moynihan, and Deputies Haughey, Andrews and McEllistrim.

The Joint Committee on Education and Science was delighted with the response it received following its decision to seek submissions on the issue of adult literacy. I thank those who sent written submissions to the committee. The members of the committee have read the submissions, copies of which were circulated to them. The committee will hear oral presentations, on foot of some of the written submissions, during the next two days.

I am delighted to extend a warm welcome to representatives of the Dublin Adult Learning Centre, the National Adult Literacy Agency, Area Development Management Limited, the County Dublin Vocational Education Committee and the City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee. During the first part of the meeting each of the groups will be invited to make a five-minute presentation. Each group's presentation should highlight the main points contained in its written submission. As many organisations are in attendance at this meeting, I ask each of them to observe the five-minute limit on presentations. A question and answer session lasting approximately 65 minutes will take place when the presentations have been completed. I am sure members of the joint committee will be keen to ask questions of the representatives of the various groups.

Before I allow the groups to begin their presentations, I draw attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but that this does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I ask Ms Mary Maher, presenting on behalf of the Dublin Adult Learning Centre, to begin.

Ms Mary Maher

I will make a quick introduction followed by the five main points contained in the submission. The Dublin Adult Learning Centre is based in Mountjoy Square and caters for more than 600 learners each year. In the past three or four years the number of ESOL — English for speakers of other languages — students has increased to approximately 150 or 25% of our learners. We offer a wide range of tuition, including one-to-one and small group accredited programmes. Students attend for two hours per week but we also offer a variety of intensive literacy programmes which they may attend on three mornings per week. These programmes include a basic education programme, a women's programme and a work preparation programme. Classes run in the morning, afternoon and evening and we offer crèche facilities. The Dublin Adult Learning Centre provides the basic education tuition for community employment schemes in the inner city.

It is fantastic that, in the main, we are in a position to offer two hours of tuition to students who attend the centre. This important one-to-one tuition is provided by volunteers. It is also important to offer an option to take intensive literacy programmes because these allow people who are free to attend courses more than once a week to do so. Obviously, they will be able to progress much quicker and it would, therefore, be great if this option was available to every learner in the country.

Our target group can be difficult to reach but, with additional funding, we are managing to reach many more people than in the past. It is important that the literacy scheme works in partnership with other community and voluntary organisations which work with the target groups in the respective areas. For example, we work closely with community employment schemes that reach people with drug problems, homeless people and persons with mental health issues. Working in partnership, literacy schemes can provide literacy for people in these target groups, while the other organisations in the areas in question are able to provide the additional supports required by these groups.

During the past three years the number of ESOL students attending our centre has increased to such an extent that we have been forced to turn away many people. With regard to this group, we mainly provide basic language classes for eastern Europeans and literacy classes aimed primarily at people from African countries. As this tuition requires significant resources, I recommend either that additional funds be made available to the literacy service or a separate allocation be made to meet the needs of the ESOL target group.

I probably need not discuss child care in detail, given that a committee of the House met yesterday to discuss it. Child care is an issue for the literacy service. While the Dublin Adult Learning Centre is lucky to be able to provide child care, we turn away learners each day because we cannot meet everyone's needs. Child care is, therefore, an important issue to be addressed if we are to encourage people to return to education.

The Dublin Adult Learning Centre — previously the Dublin literacy scheme — is one of the oldest and largest schemes in the country. We have only been known as the Dublin Adult Learning Centre since 1997 and will celebrate ten years in existence in 2007. We have started a research project examining our practices during the past ten years. As members will be aware, the literacy service has expanded rapidly and this project will provide us with an opportunity to examine and reflect on those practices. The focus of the research, which will be quantitative and qualitative, will be to examine the impact of literacy tuition on our adults. It will also consider the acquisition of literary skills and their application.

A steering group was set up when we began the research project. Our aim was to try to tie down the research project. It is really about how students progress. We set out to define progress. We talked to students and organised focus groups that worked on a one-to-one basis and in small groups. We asked students for their definition of progress and what the programme meant to them. Although I have been working in this area for many years, I could not get over how much the literacy service means to people and how much people felt they progressed. In some cases this took place in a very short period. People spoke about progress in terms of booking into hotels, taking out library membership for themselves and their children and writing cheques for oil delivery men.

Of the 100 learners to whom we spoke, two mentioned accreditation, namely, that it is important to obtain a certificate. Adult literacy is about participation. While we would like students to be accredited and to receive certificates for their achievements, the most important aspect for students is being able to participate in the programme. I have been hearing all week about Robert Putnam, Bowling Alone and the issue of communities. If we are to create and sustain communities, we must continue to invest in adult literacy because it is about participation, creating communities and ensuring we do not leave people behind. It is an investment in the future.

Vice Chairman

I thank Ms Maher for her succinct points and call on Ms Inez Bailey who represents the National Adult Literacy Agency, NALA, to make her presentation.

Ms Inez Bailey

I thank the Vice Chairman for the invitation to make a presentation to the committee. The international adult literacy survey showed that 500,000 Irish adults scored at the lowest level of literacy, placing Ireland behind, for example, the United Kingdom, Germany and Sweden. Participation rates in the VEC adult literacy services represent only 6% of this target group, which is low by comparison with other EU countries. Ireland is still also performing poorly in terms of investment in adult literacy in comparison with other countries, with only €3 per €1,000 of the education budget being spent in this area. Adults who wish to improve their basic education can do, on average, only two hours per week for approximately 30 weeks in a year. International research demonstrates that progress in these circumstances is, at best, slow.

The following initiatives are key to significantly raising adult literacy and numeracy levels in Ireland. In order to develop an implementation plan for the national adult literacy programme, key stakeholders — including the Department of Education and Science — involved in the adult literacy sector were brought together by NALA to devise an implementation plan up to 2006 and to identify post-2006 priorities. The group has developed a quality model VEC adult literacy service in addition to staffing norms and protocols on key service areas. The plan was the culmination of two years' work and set a realistic blueprint for the future development of the VEC adult literacy service. NALA believes that the adoption of this key document is central to providing high quality learning opportunities for adults who wish to improve their literacy and numeracy.

The plan has been submitted to the Department of Education and Science and the Irish Vocational Education Association as key agents responsible for implementing the national adult literacy programme. In adopting this plan, the agency recommends that it will enable the VEC adult literacy service to cater for an increased target group and raise participation rates to 10%.

In 1998, NALA, in conjunction with FÁS and a range of VECs, piloted a return to education programme for community employment participants with literacy difficulties. FÁS funded the programme, which was delivered by the local VEC service and which provided nine hours of tuition per week for community employment participants who were released from their work commitments. The programme evaluation documented the success of the project in meeting the basic education needs of these workers and the programme was extended into all FÁS regions. Over 50 of these programmes are currently in operation. However, their future is unclear because FÁS recently reduced the number of hours for which people are allowed to participate in them.

Apart from offering this programme, the VEC adult literacy services, in the main, do not provide intensive basic education opportunities, except where they have accessed Back to Education initiative funding available since 2002. In 2004, there were fewer than 900 participants in these programmes. Each of them contained only a small element of basic education. There are also a small number of other community-based providers delivering basic education under the Back to Education initiative.

The recommended action NALA is trying to have implemented is an increase by 50% in the number of intensive basic education opportunities available to adults with literacy and numeracy difficulties. The vast majority of adults with poor literacy are in the work force and are typically associated with low-skill jobs. For some time Ireland has been losing low-skill jobs to countries with lower wage rates, resulting in pressure to up-skill the workers concerned. Adults with literacy difficulties have been hard hit by this global trend and by the inaccessibility of job-related training.

In 2000, NALA, in conjunction with the Department and the Local Authority-National Partnership Advisory Group, initiated a workplace basic education programme for local authority workers. The programme secured four hours' study release for those interested in improving their basic education. Those who came forward were mainly male and working as outdoor staff in their respective local authorities. The evaluation of the pilot highlighted many successes and today the programme is run in all local authorities.

Attempts to develop workplace basic education programmes in the private sector have been much more difficult. The absence of statutory support for workers to engage in education and training hampers the development of this type of work. In addition, most staff training programmes assume that participants have basic literacy. This is an incorrect assumption that leads many workers to be excluded from a range of work-based training initiatives. NALA has developed a strategy in this regard which is included in Sustaining Progress. It is hoped to see a continuation of funding, currently provided through the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to FÁS, for workplace basic education in the future. However, the action we seek is paid educational leave entitlement for all workers with less than a junior certificate or equivalent level of qualification who wish to improve their literacy and numeracy.

NALA recently conducted research into the area of adult numeracy. With the contribution of adult numeracy academics, providers and learners, it has drawn up a list of recommendations and a strategy for the way forward. The report, Meeting the Numeracy Challenge, was published in early 2004. Its key recommendations relate to the areas of tutor training, resource materials, assessment and accreditation. Currently the agency seeks the development of a national numeracy strategy involving key stakeholders to address what we understand to be an even more significant problem with adult numeracy among our population.

NALA conducted an audit of ESOL services within VEC adult literacy centres in 2002. This information was presented to a multi-stakeholder working group which produced a set of guidelines and recommendations for the future development of ESOL services. These include new approaches to outreach and promotion, different types of provision, a new form of assessment and accreditation and additional training and supports. The agency recommends that the Department of Education and Science establish and lead an interdepartmental agency working group involving key stakeholders to develop a national ESOL strategy and assign dedicated funding. Currently, ESOL provision is being funded under the adult literacy budget and increasingly taking very much needed resources in this area.

The exact number of adults experiencing specific learning difficulties is unclear. However, there is no doubt that many adults accessing adult literacy services experience some form of learning difficulty. The National Educational Psychological Service does not provide services for adults or assist practitioners in the further education sector. The task force on dyslexia excluded adults from its terms of reference but its report of 2002 noted that several submissions highlighted this exclusion and made suggestions about the need for intensive adult literacy provision.

NALA established a multi-stakeholder working group to assist in the publication of policy guidelines for working with adults with specific learning difficulties. The action required here is to develop appropriate assessment, tuition and report systems for adults with specific learning difficulties, in particular dyslexia, within the VEC adult literacy service, as well as in other further educational training programmes.

The message from the success of the "Read Right Now" distance learning series on RTE One, commissioned by the Department of Education and Science, is clear. Tackling disadvantage requires not only significant resources but also creative and flexible approaches which take account of the life circumstances of adult learners. It is important to further develop and resource these initiatives. A particular focus on building ICT skills should be included in order to address the e-inclusion agenda. The recommendation is that the national adult literacy programme, which is a key pillar to the White Paper on Adult Education, Learning for Life, will continue to need priority investment and substantial expansion if it is to be effected in the long term. It will require at least a minimum of 20% investment per annum in the near future. A key element of this budget should be dedicated to the development of innovative approaches.

As a result of poor funding for adult literacy work in Ireland in the past, there is a dearth of research and evaluation publications in the area. There has been no national evaluation of the VEC adult literacy service or the wider national adult literacy programme. The extent to which the investment in this area has impacted on adults wishing to improve their literacy and numeracy, has yet to be established. The Department is considering how best to ascertain this information and thus better inform the development of adult literacy policy in the future. It is timely to review the adult literacy programme with a view to the development of a new and more ambitious strategy to raise literacy and numeracy levels among the Irish population.

In the context of educational disadvantage, we wish to make two points. Resources are required to provide real opportunities for all people to achieve a minimum standard of education, ideally when they are at school. If this has not been achieved or resources have not been equitably dispersed to enable people to gain a minimum standard of education from the school system, it will need to be addressed for those affected later in life. The problem continues to have damaging consequences for individual families and communities and ultimately costs Irish society in terms of socio-economic development. Those who have not benefited from the education system should be financially supported to achieve a minimum standard of education, irrespective of age or status.

Literacy and numeracy problems are experienced by thousands of Irish people, children and adults. However, we have no joined-up national strategy to build literacy and numeracy across all age groups. There is no cross-fertilisation of professional expertise between those working with the different groups, while there is clear acceptance that different and varied approaches are required to address this issue. The national anti-poverty strategy provides for the establishment of a national literacy committee to forge synergy and integration between the work of the school literacy services and those for adults. However, this has yet to be acted upon. It seems to be an ideal vehicle for spearheading a national campaign and facilitating the recognition and sharing of specialist expertise, stakeholder views and approaches to literacy and numeracy development.

Vice Chairman

I thank Ms Bailey. I invite Ms Bernie McDonnell, education co-ordinator with Area Development Management Limited, ADM, to address the committee.

Ms Bernie McDonnell

ADM welcomes the opportunity to contribute to the work of the committee in its examination of adult literacy. Five minutes is a limited amount of time in which to do justice to a more detailed and more comprehensive submission. I will, therefore, attempt to convey some sense of what distinguishes the work of ADM partnerships from that of other literacy providers in the field.

What really distinguishes our work is the fact that we operate the local development social inclusion programme. The primary objective of this programme is to combat socio-economic disadvantage and social exclusion and to promote equality. That overall strategy has determined the approach we have taken to literacy. ADM does not regard itself as a highly significant player in the provision of literacy services for adults in so far as it does not constitute its primary task or core work. However, it is important to state its staff have gained sufficient experience in the field to enable them to speak with some degree of authority on the issue. The value of its literacy work, apart from its direct impact on beneficiaries, is the way in which its approach complements that of other providers which have a statutory remit or a more direct role.

When inviting submissions, the joint committee outlined six areas it was interested in exploring. Some of the practices emerging from ADM's area based and community partnerships address the majority of those areas. Those with the lowest literacy levels were prioritised by ADM. All of the case studies, of which we have provided examples, show the innovative ways of reaching out to those in need of support. The way ADM expanded its outreach and referral services is exemplified in the case study of the Finglas-Cabra partnership. The development of specific initiatives for disadvantaged groups is reflected in all of the case studies and work-based literacy measures. Practice in this area is emerging as part of the work of the local development social inclusion programme and has not yet become established on a programmatic basis. Evidence of ADM practice is contained in the case study of the Ballymun partnership which forms part of its submission.

The key features of the partnership's approach to its work, that is, in education and the literacy component, are worth citing as they have had an impact on the approach taken by ADM. Social inclusion is the primary objective of every action. There is partnership and co-operation in mobilising the different agencies and interest groups at local level which are working with the target group to ensure greater integration and co-ordination in the delivery of services. Community development is the underpinning methodology of the programme in working to empower disadvantaged groups and communities to facilitate their involvement in local decision-making. Initially, this was facilitated by the structure of the partnerships. It then expanded into the community with its work in facilitating the exercise of active citizenship at local level.

The literacy work of partnerships forms part of an overall approach to the work which seeks fundamentally to enhance access to participation and the progression opportunities of a range of target groups which are most distant from the labour market and educational and training opportunities and which are, as a consequence, often marginalised and socially excluded and must struggle to take up the citizenship role. A low level of literacy is a key contributor to an indicator of cumulative disadvantage and social exclusion. As a result it is difficult to reach and engage with those most in need of literacy supports.

Agencies with a remit in this area approach the challenge in different ways. The approach taken by the area partnerships, while it varies from area to area depending on local needs and resources, has a number of common characteristics. I wish to convey the characteristics that distinguish the approach of ADM. First, our approach to community based outreach programmes for hard to reach individuals, utilising a community development approach which facilitates engagement with individuals though their involvement in community activities, is built on issue based groups such as lone parents, ex-prisoners or drug misusers and the case study of the Drogheda partnership which priorities its delivery to RAPID programme areas.

The second issue concerns the strategy for a flexible and developmental approach that takes into account individual life histories. In our experience a flexible modular approach makes it easier for individuals to participate in and continue with training, particularly if the training and tuition are offered at a time and location and use a learning methodology that accommodate the individual and reduce his or her anxiety, self-consciousness and stigmatisation. The case presented is a good example of this.

The third common characteristic is an integrated approach to supports which allows for progression to a range of supports concerned with personal development, specific skills training, education courses, work placement and employment as well as supplementary supports such as child care, elder care and transport. We are enabled to do this through our work with the local employment services — some 28 of the partnerships have local employment services located within their structures — and more generally as part of our overall education work and our work in connection with the services related to the unemployment measure. An emphasis on partnership with service providers in the statutory, voluntary and community sectors facilitates co-operation and helps make referral systems more effective, maximising the level of support to individuals and working towards more holistic responses to what are the multiple needs of the target group. Literacy is often only one indicator of needs as there are a plethora of other needs with regard to welfare, health, housing, education, training and employment.

My final point concerns the need for close linkages with employers. This allows partnerships to act in an advocacy role on behalf of clients to break down barriers to recruitment and also to develop initiatives within the workplace for low skilled workers, enhancing their progression and upward mobility within the labour market.

Vice Chairman

I invite Ms Fiona Hartley, education officer of County Dublin Vocational Education Committee, to speak.

Ms Fiona Hartley

County Dublin Vocational Education Committee welcomes this opportunity to address the Joint Committee on Education and Science and thanks the committee for its invitation. In preparing our submission we were able to draw on a consultation process embarked upon in the course of agreeing our organisation-wide strategic education plan, a summary of which has been supplied to committee members. Before dealing with the recommendations included in our submission, I will refer briefly to the context in which adult literacy services developed during the past 25 years and the current change context arising from legislative reforms. Such an overview will, I hope, provide an insight into the VEC's perspective and position at this time.

Prior to 1997 adult literacy services developed in an ad hoc manner, staffed primarily by volunteers who were supported by the VEC sector. With the allocation of substantial funding in the late 1990s came the attendant challenge of providing structures at national, regional and local level. At local level the VEC sector was enabled to establish professional adult literacy services and appoint full-time adult literacy organisers to co-ordinate and manage local schemes. However, at national level the structures for consultation concerning the emerging services did not always facilitate comprehensive, cohesive, transparent and structured mechanisms for consultation with the main service providers.

Following the enactment of the Vocational Education (Amendment) Bill 2001, VECs have a legislative requirement to publish five year education plans together with annual service plans detailing the individual VEC strategy and implementation plans to achieve a model for integrated service delivery. This legislative requirement has given VECs a mandate to develop a vision and a blueprint for an integrated education service encompassing a range of services and learning opportunities in further, adult and community education. In the adult literacy sphere this has enabled VECs to strengthen the links between the programmes office and the vocational training opportunity schemes, Youthreach and senior Traveller training centres.

VECs are in a unique position. They deliver over 90% of adult literacy provision, as well as being responsible for a range of second level, further and adult education services. The breadth of this service provision, together with relatively recent empowering legislation, places VECs at the forefront of the development of policy, curriculum, programmes and the attendant support services and structures for adult, community and further education. They have a demonstrable track record in responding to emerging needs in adult and further education and are, therefore, exceptionally well placed to make a unique contribution to the debate and influence future policy direction.

County Dublin Vocational Education Committee is one of the largest in the State. It provides services in a region with a population of approximately 526,000 citizens within the three administrative areas, Fingal, south Dublin, and the Rathdown area of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. We have 75 years' experience in the education and training of young people and adults. Our submission provides details of our range of services. Our adult literacy services are delivered by eight local services across the county, led by adult literacy organisers who report to their local area adult education officer, AEO. One of these is a dedicated countywide service for Travellers.

A unique aspect of County Dublin VEC service delivery throughout the region is the whole organisation approach to countywide development, co-ordination and support with the specific post of county coordinator of literacy services dedicated to progressing the integration and cohesion of our adult literacy services. We have developed a three-year education and service plan for adult literacy services as part of our strategic plan, a summary of which has been included in the folders submitted to committee members. Also included is an overview of our recommendations to the committee, presented in diagrammatic form together with a summary sheet.

There are five key areas in which we make recommendations, the most central of which is the development of a five-year national adult literacy and numeracy plan to be drawn up as part of the new national development plan. This would help to maintain national competitiveness as well as supporting social inclusion, since poor literacy and numeracy skills not only affect educational attainment but also participation in civic life.

Our second recommendation is to review the role of the VEC adult literacy provision. Our education and service plan for adult literacy reflects regional priorities which we believe should be national priorities. County Dublin VEC is strongly of the view that the emphasis should be on collaboration and integration in order to reach more clients. We envisage the development of the role of adult literacy services as learning support services and as an expert resource, both within the VEC sector and with other agencies and organisations. This changing role must be promoted more systematically and could be supported through the appointment of VEC outreach workers who would facilitate closer collaboration, both on an intra and inter-agency basis, with partners such as FÁS, local employment services, area based partnership and emerging county development board structures.

We aim to further develop and build on targeted initiatives which will address the particular needs of groups such as male learners and Travellers, as well as contributing to initiatives such as the district approach to early school leaving which we are currently developing in the Tallaght area. Workplace and family learning are other initiatives which we would like to develop further.

During 2004, County Dublin VEC had in excess of 1,000 enrolments on ESOL, English for speakers of other languages, courses. We strongly recommend that the separate budget line to fund this provision be agreed as a matter of urgency. VECs faced with a rapidly changing and increasing client base must be supported at Government level by the provision of appropriate resources.

Our fourth recommendation is to examine the adult literacy and numeracy curriculum. To raise standards, we need to establish the baseline and the starting point must be the agreement of a national framework for initial assessment. Real attention must be given to the enhancement of more imaginative delivery models for the core curriculum of adult literacy and numeracy, building on successful initiatives such as the workplace partnership with FÁS with the national portal for web-based learning to enhance ICT. An increase in emphasis on thematic literacy and numeracy is also recommended.

We must consider how we can enhance curriculum supports. Accurate data collection is essential if we are to see whether national targets are being met. Accurate information will enable us to record the success of the sector and identify gaps. This data collection system should form the basis for the development by the Department of Education and Science of a computerised management information system. There is an imperative to ensure that all paid staff are professionally qualified to act as tutors with particular attention and specialised tutors supporting students with specific learning difficulties. We call upon the Department to clarify the qualifications which are deemed suitable for those working in literacy services to ensure the adult education sector has parity with the second level sector.

The development of a national centre for literacy and numeracy studies should be a priority. This would be a centre of excellence within an existing third level institution which would work in partnership with providers to give a national lead in curriculum development through research and international networks based on the Harvard model in the USA.

Adequate and appropriate child care services are an essential support for adult learners. The provision of such services would also support current initiatives to encourage lone parents back into education and employment. There is an urgent need for a capital budget for adult education. It is difficult for staff to enable learners to develop skills and self-esteem in premises which are in poor condition.

County Dublin VEC greatly welcomes the commitment of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Science to furthering an adult literacy agenda. County Dublin VEC's submission reflects three key drivers, namely, a strong commitment to the strategic development of all aspects of our service provisions including adult literacy, a strong commitment to developing and enhancing a range of innovative initiatives in all fields including adult literacy provision and a wealth of expertise accumulated by dedicated staff, many of whom have worked as part of County Dublin VEC's adult literacy team for over 20 years. I hope our recommendations will be of use to the joint committee in its analysis of adult literacy. We would be delighted to provide further information on our services, if any members wish to contact us or to visit one of our sites.

Vice Chairman

We may take up Ms Hartley's offer of a visit, as well as reading her submission. I now call on Ms Jacinta Stewart, chief executive officer of City of Dublin VEC.

Ms Jacinta Stewart

Like the joint committee members, I have been impressed by the presentations. I want to approach this issue from the particular angle, looking at the student. Who are our students, where are they and what is happening? VECs are local education providers and are the major local education providers for literacy in the country.

I wish to draw a picture of a fairly typical example of adult literacy students as they currently exist. In my written submission I have discussed how an adult literacy student has not survived in the education system and did not have a good experience of school the first time around. He or she has, at most, completed only primary level and has left school lacking the basic skills needed to function comfortably in our society. Lacking in confidence and self-esteem, his or her personal, social and work life has been affected. He or she may have managed to secure unskilled work after school but, lacking competence in basic skills and living in constant fear of being found out, is unable to move on in the work situation. If he or she is made redundant — as we have found in times of difficulty — he or she is trapped without the skills necessary to find work in our new, upskilled economy. In some cases, such people do not even manage to fill in the application form for new jobs and also lack the basic skills to take up training to enable them to move on. Their home life is also affected. They must rely on someone else to look after all reading and writing tasks and usually feel particularly affected in respect of their children. They often feel inadequate because they cannot help their own children with homework and are ashamed when their children ask them to spell a word and must admit that they do not know how to do so.

Adults returning to education through the schemes embrace their second chance with enthusiasm and delight and see it as a life-changing experience. More resources are needed to enable the service to reach the many adults with literacy difficulties. I will quote a student from one of our schemes in Crumlin, who wrote the following about returning:

I was back in school for six weeks before I told Shay my husband. I was afraid to say anything to anyone because if it did not work out, I would end up with egg on my face. Since I have gone back to school, I have met many people like myself. We all say that when we were children in school, if you could not learn or did not have the cop-on, you were put to the back of the class and left there. I suppose that in those days, there were so many children in the class, the teaching staff did not have the time to spend on one person who was very slow.

We received an increase in funding in 1998. The number of our learners has increased from 758 in 1998 to 4,870 in 2003.

What is an adult literacy scheme like in a city? We have 14 literacy schemes throughout Dublin city. We have 22 colleges, 11 on the north side of the city and 11 on the south side. All are used to provide a service to adult students who wish to return to education. For example, in Crumlin 2,000 adults return at night to participate in general adult education. Adult literacy students go there as part of that service. They come in like other students and are treated like other students. We provide a service to support them. In the city, we are based in VEC colleges, in community-based adult education centres and in unemployment centres. We work with home-school liaison teachers in both primary and post-primary schools. I am delighted the ADM presentation mentioned the Finglas-Cabra partnership. We supported a worker in the Finglas-Cabra partnership, in the local employment service, to try to ensure that students going there had someone on-site to support the service who was directly linked to the literacy service in Finglas. A total of 60 centres in Dublin city are now engaged in literacy provision. We have 5,366 students and, literally, if there is a building in the city that can be used, we are using it. We have received enormous support, not just from VEC colleges but also from national and second level schools and community centres. We are located in community centres in Donaghmede and Cleer and will provide the service anywhere we can access buildings and support.

We are very conscious of two things. Sometimes a student wishes to stay local. This is his or her choice and we must ensure the provision we offer is as broad as possible.

There is one group which has provided enormous support for the service. We have 639 voluntary tutors who provide a service on a weekly basis. It is a generous part of the hidden Ireland we do not always see. The tutors concerned are trained by us. A number of them will become paid tutors. In one VEC in the city voluntary tutors provide 44,730 hours of service in one-to-one tuition in a given year. They have a life cycle — I use the term advisedly — with us of between two and three years. They provide a service for which we thank them once a year in a presentation ceremony. It is a part of the hidden Ireland which should be mentioned.

A total of 40% of our students are working. Ms Bailey spoke about persons in low paid employment. Some 40% of our students are in that category. Many of our students are also at home. As everyone noted, 20% of our students are English for speakers of other languages, ESOL, students. A total of 60% of our students are aged between 25 and 54 years. We think there are a small number between the ages of 16 and 25 years and over 55. The core is composed of people who are parents, working and have an enormous contribution to make to the State.

In our case literacy organisers co-ordinate provision at local level. We now have ten full-time literacy organisers. We have identified areas in the city where there are gaps and where people are not accessing our services. We have appointed outreach workers to these areas to try to increase provision. They will knock on doors and try to get people out. We are talking about people whose experience of education has not been good and who will have to be persuaded to come back. We are not talking about people who feel good about education and will automatically come in to us. Therefore, we must go to them.

A number of years ago we developed a foundation programme for homeless people. We were concerned about a number of homeless centres in the city where there was no education provision and we were not sure what was needed. Since 1999 we have been running a project called the foundation project, to which we appointed a literacy worker because it needed enormous support.

Included in our submission to the joint committee is the 2004-07 plan for the city. For every area of the city we work in — I will again use Crumlin as an example — we are developing or have put in place a local plan to match the city plan. For example, if we say we will look at developing a charter that will outline the responsibilities of paid and voluntary tutors, this will be done at both city and local level. This is because there must be local ownership of the scheme. It must be done at the most basic level.

There are only two things that I and I think the VECs want. The first relates to staffing. Before 1997 we had no permanent posts. Literacy needs to be made part of the mainstream education system. I will again use Crumlin as an example. We have 1,000 part-time students, 150 voluntary tutors, 30 paid tutors, one part-time administrator and one adult literacy organiser. We need an enormous range of supports in Crumlin to provide the service needed. We need to seriously engage in building a new staffing and support structure.

The second aspect relates to infrastructure. Whatever facilities are available in the city are made available by the VECs but we have no capital budget. Even if I wanted to set up an area in Crumlin where adults would be welcome, feel comfortable and have a range of supports offered to them, as there should be, I do not have a capital budget to do so. The two key messages from the City of Dublin VEC are about staffing and infrastructure.

Vice Chairman

I thank all of the guests for their presentations. There were a number of common themes and what has been referred to will be very useful in terms of the committee's deliberations. I invite members of the committee to ask questions of our guests.

Deputy Hoctor

I welcome the various bodies that have this morning presented the committee with many challenges. I have a number of questions and note from the committee's submission that members were assigned particular presentations, but my questions are quite general. I have a question about the profile of the person who avails of adult literacy services. Ms Stewart went a long way in presenting this. It would be short-sighted of us to confine the matter to people who are in the socio-economic "challenged position" bracket. We often find that people who live in the wealthiest parts of towns might face literacy challenges but are the more difficult people to reach.

I ask all our guests how they access the people who need them most. Written advertising is out of the question because of the very nature of the need of the person and the service our guests provide. How do our guests best reach the people who need them most? Is it by radio or word of mouth? I would be interested to know. Do our guests depend on groups such as the ADM services, which are also working with the marginalised or, as mentioned, through the home-school liaison scheme? If a child has literacy problems, we often find that parents also have them. This might be a back door to gaining access to family services. Ms Hartley mentioned family programmes. How does the County Dublin VEC tackle these? How does it physically organise them in order that families can benefit from the services all at one time?

What is the role of IT in the guests' programmes? Information technology has impacted on all our lives and the literacy programme has obviously needed to change. At what stage after a person gains the benefits of joining a programme is IT introduced? Is funding the answer to all the difficulties of the bodies present? Would funding fulfil the needs presented to the committee or are other resources also needed?

Deputy Enright

I apologise to our guests for not being here during the presentations. I read their submissions and have based my questions on these as I knew I would not be able to be here earlier this morning. My first question is to the National Adult Literacy Agency. In its submission, it mentioned the need for paid educational leave entitlements for all workers who have less than the junior certificate level qualification and who want to improve their literacy. What rate of pay is the agency talking about? Would it be equivalent to what the workers would be earning if they left their jobs to do this? Would it be the minimum wage? In terms of transport and child care costs, is the agency suggesting a general rate across the board or partial funding? Does the agency have these figures and would they pertain only to those who are economically disadvantaged rather than right across the board? How would the agency set the boundaries in this respect?

On the submission from the Dublin Adult Learning Centre, how would it examine the matter of recruiting teachers for the writing and photography courses it hopes to integrate into its programmes? Concerning goal No. 1 in the submission, what type of after school provision is the delegation suggesting? What financial incentives are being considered?

Regarding rural areas, is the problem of getting people to come in and avail of the facilities more difficult? Are there any suggestions on how this could be countered? Though there are also transportation difficulties in Dublin, there may be an extra barrier facing people in rural areas.

Deputy English

Some of the submissions referred to the shortage of male tutors. What is the answer to this problem? Does the delegation have any ideas on this matter? Is it necessary to have child care provision on site where courses are provided or is it sufficient to give a flat rate allowance so that child care can be sought elsewhere, as suggested by Deputy Enright? The delegation has suggested that transport costs are a major problem and some groups have suggested covering transport costs. Would costs be provided for transport to the building where the course is taking place, as well as to the child care facility? Can the delegation elaborate on this?

In rural areas more so than in city areas, a common occurrence is that buildings used are not always modern. Sometimes they are inaccessible to people with different abilities. Many people contact me to say that while they would like to do a course, accessing the building requires too much effort, especially if one is in a wheelchair. I am interested in the delegation's comments on this. If we are to treat adult literacy seriously, it must be properly examined and made accessible to everyone.

It may be difficult to access the clients that should be availing of these courses. They may not know the courses exist or they may not have the self-esteem to chase the courses. Can something be done on a national level? While there are plenty of leaflets and posters, do we need to undertake a media campaign to attract people to these courses?

There is pressure on capacity in many courses already and more money will be needed if more clients attend. That is the idea of what we are doing.

Vice Chairman

I have a couple of questions, the first of which is on the same theme as Deputy Hoctor's question. The outreach programme was mentioned on several occasions. It can be the most time-consuming and the most difficult, yet it is the most important as it reaches people who have been left out of the system and have fears of seeking help. Can the delegation add to what has already been said regarding this?

I want to ask Ms Bernie McDonnell how inter-agency work can be done. As politicians we meet people who have literacy problems and need help filling out forms. We are aware of how these people feel and their fear of going to people in authority. People such as community welfare officers also have this information. How can we extend the co-ordination of this, and is more support needed from statutory agencies?

Ms Inez Bailey referred to the return to education and the cutbacks from FÁS. Can she elaborate on how this is affecting the more vulnerable people? The matter of English for people of other languages takes up much resources and time. Are statistics available on this? How much has the service been extended? It was suggested that there be a national strategy and a national fund. Would anyone like to address this matter? I thank the delegation.

Senator Scanlon

I thank the delegation for its contribution. I am a former member of County Sligo VEC. Without question, the VEC does great work for people with literacy problems. It was found that dyslexia is one of the main causes of literary problems. It is a more serious problem than is appreciated. In my home town, an association comprising the parents of dyslexic children was formed. Thankfully, the problem in young children is now recognised much earlier. A young man with dyslexia completed his leaving certificate this year with five honours. That is a fantastic achievement for someone who suffers with this problem. More work could be done in that area.

I note that funding for adult literacy was increased sixfold in five years. However, the number of people with problems increased at the same rate, from 730 to 4,800. What happened during that period? Did a total breakdown of our education system occur 23 or 24 years ago or are these people only now prepared to come forward? Why did this increase occur in such a short period? There must be a problem.

Ms Maher

I shall make some points which, I hope, will answer a number of questions. I agree that accessibility is a major issue. We are based in the inner city and organisations contact us because people with disabilities cannot access our service. Unfortunately, we occupy a listed building and we cannot install a lift.

We are fortunate that we are able to provide child care on site. However, I do not know where we would put a crèche or how we would extend it. It is not merely a funding or capital issue. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul runs a local crèche and that is used by people who access our service. We are examining that issue with regard to ESOL.

I was asked about recruitment. In the past — I am sure the operators of the various VEC schemes would agree with me in this regard — we only had mainstream literacy students, namely, people in the community who proceeded to live and work while trying to cope with literacy difficulties. These individuals were not in contact with any other services. They accessed our service and continue to do so.

We need the media, particularly TV and radio, to constantly send out the message that it is okay to have a literacy difficulty and that help is available for people with dyslexia. We must normalise the service. This issue is still taboo in Irish society and people will not admit to having literacy problems. We have overcome issues with regard to sexual preference and violence against women but people still cannot admit they have literacy difficulties. TV programmes such as "Read Write Now" are necessary in order that members of the public with such difficulties can be made aware that there is no stigma attached to them. As a result, they will be encouraged to come forward. We must emphasise that the service is free and confidential. Half of our 612 participants are holding down jobs, although they are, perhaps, poorly paid. We must continue to recruit them. We recruit the most disadvantaged through the initiatives and integrated approach mentioned by Ms McDonnell.

In my experience, CE has been the most effective approach with regard to financial incentives because it provides people with training allowances. Part of the work of the majority of participants involves attending a literacy service such as ours. One initiative that might work would be to shorten the time worked on CE because 19.5 hours can be quite long for those who have never worked and who have mental health issues or drug problems. Shorter work hours could help people with literacy problems.

I agree with Ms Stewart with regard to tutors. All of our paid and volunteer tutors come up through the volunteer system. No matter what qualifications a person possesses, he or she must undergo the voluntary tutor course. We are lucky because we have people from all walks of life who have an interest in this matter. Although they do not make much money, and despite the fact that it is extremely difficult to have a career in adult education, they continue to do the work. They avail of in-house training and the NALA course in WIT or Maynooth.

We are very fortunate in that we have never had a problem attracting volunteers, who then tend to stay with the service. Furthermore, because we attract people from very different walks of life, we can offer a broad range of services to our students. Many volunteers come to us with a huge breadth of experience, which is very useful.

After-school provision was mentioned but as I do not understand the specific question on that issue, I cannot respond.

On the issue of inter-agency approaches, I have already mentioned community employment. We also do much work with Pavee Point, which works with Travellers. In the past, Travellers, some of whom could not write their own name, were only availing of two hours tuition per week and progress was slow. Last year we piloted an intensive literacy programme with a group of female Travellers, who could not believe the progress they made by attending classes more than once per week. Another example of the partnership approach is our piloting of the NALA literacy and health project, where we worked with local GPs and local public health nurses to recruit people whom, it was felt, had literacy difficulties. The focus of that programme was on family health and literacy. People on the programme made great progress in terms of talking to their GPs and accessing services as well as improving family nutrition through a better understanding of the nutritional value of various foods. That was a new partnership approach that met the literacy as well as health needs of the programme's participants.

Ms Bailey

NALA is in receipt of a budget from the Department of Education and Science to carry out national awareness-raising and publicity campaigns. However, the budget is very small and media publicity campaigns are very expensive. We are very reliant on our own public relations activities. These are focused predominantly on National Literacy Awareness Week in September, which is themed and run in partnership with a number of other organisations. This year our theme is active citizenship through education. The week begins on 26 September and our theme will be used to focus attention on the adult literacy issue.

Fundamentally, all of our advertising aims to reduce the stigma attached to adult illiteracy and to normalise literacy. It aims to let people know that not only is there an adult literacy service available through the VEC but also that there are other options available to them if they wish to improve their literacy. It is important that any media campaign highlights the fact there is a suite of options available.

The "Read Write Now" series, which attracted one in four of the Irish television viewing public, was the highest rated educational broadcast by RTE. In our experience of that programme, many people were familiar with the service that was available locally but they could not access it because of a lack of transport or for some other reason. Others chose not to take the local option at that time and opted for a distance learning opportunity instead. The national statistics tell us that many of these people went into the VEC adult literacy service at different times. It is important that there is a suite of learning opportunities available, including distance learning through television, radio and on-line. Many people can negotiate such media and improve their literacy skills. Distance learning opportunities must also be accompanied by traditional, programmatic approaches, whether through the VEC or local community groups. Many community development programmes and ICTU centres for the unemployed are providing adult literacy services.

We do not have sufficient resources to mount a sufficiently large media campaign to address the adult literacy issue once and for all. We are picking away at the problem on a consistent level and relying on other services, both nationally and locally, to carry out much of the awareness-raising work and give us attention through the media. With regard to the campaigns conducted in the last five years, the one on health provoked a huge response because literacy is a major issue for people accessing health services. Those working in the health sector have told us that many illiterate people are becoming more dependent on the health services because they are unable to be active in the prevention of ill health. They are not able to read information leaflets given to them in a doctor's surgery or hospital. This is an issue they want to address. It does not merely pertain to education or individuals but concerns every facet of our society, in that individuals using any form of service will be at a disadvantage if they do not possess sufficient literacy and numeracy skills. We received a great response from people in the health sector.

We have conducted campaigns within the legal sector and, last year, within the financial sector. We found the legal sector to be proactive, from the DPP's office to the Garda Síochána. The majority of people interact with banks or credit unions and will require some form of credit, yet challenges are presented to people with literacy difficulties. We have received some support from the financial services sector. I have mentioned that this year we are focusing on active citizenship and are raising awareness among a range of actors in that area.

Funding will not solve the problem. There is a need for collaboration between stakeholders at national and local levels. Greater attention has been devoted to this. As it is not solely an educational issue but concerns a number of areas, all players need to become actively engaged. A media campaign is important to achieve this end.

It is not only a matter of telling people with difficulties to attend a particular service but also admitting that certain sections of our community did not receive an education the first time around because the State did not have the funding to provide one. In addition, many are becoming deskilled. People are losing the reading and writing skills they learned in primary school because they may not have practised them during the ensuing 20 years of work. People need to be provided with information and the knowledge that they can resolve their difficulties. If they so wish, they can go into their local libraries to read for themselves. The library service has been proactive in providing basic readers for the public.

On paid education leave, we believe that there should be a universal support for people who have not attained the junior certificate to attain that qualification. The State should fund this. One year of leave would make a significant difference for the majority. The workforce includes 500,000 adults who have not attained the junior certificate. From the State's point of view, it is not a significant investment to provide these people with the critical investment to bring them to a minimum standard of education that may be built upon on an ongoing basis.

In rural areas, access is an issue, predominantly in terms of transport. While buildings may be of poor standard in rural areas, similar situations apply throughout Ireland. The VEC premises that are available are, in the main, sub-standard. Funding has not been made available for purpose built and accessible premises. However, particular outreach programmes are in place in rural areas. The agency has found that when we conduct media campaigns, somebody from Tuam may contact us to say that he or she wishes to attend a service in Galway. People pick and choose the centres in which they want to participate. Their first step may be to take advantage of a distance education opportunity and seeing other people on television taking similar steps will help them enormously.

NALA was involved in initiating the FÁS community employment programme in 1997 for people on community employment who could receive a specific entitlement to address basic educational difficulties. Those people will remain in community employment, which is a problem for FÁS and the individuals concerned if they are not enabled to learn the basic skills required to acquire a job. FÁS agreed to a particular programme, which provided people with 270 hours of tuition over one year. This enabled them to attend an intensive nine-hour-per-week programme over 30 weeks. Intensiveness is a key factor in moving people on, especially those who are motivated to return to work. This programme was piloted, researched and evaluated over several years and has been mainstreamed in all FÁS regions. However, without giving us an explanation of rationale, FÁS has reduced the tuition to 200 hours. This disappoints us because the up-front investment in people in CE in terms of literacy development is critical for success in moving from the programme.

About 20% of those in the literacy service nationally are ESOL students. Some VECs have higher percentages depending on their population profiles. A steady increase has led to this percentage, but we believe the percentage will probably remain steady at this time. Anecdotally, however, the demand appears to be still strong. People looking for English speakers of other languages do not have a stigma attached to addressing and entering the services. At an international level, ESOL provision is the growth area in adult literacy, not vice versa.

This leads to the issue of how people who come to Ireland are provided with English language support as part of immigration and integration policy. Little is being done on this issue, and there is an overdependency on a volunteer service within the VEC adult literacy service to provide for these people's needs. Internationally, all other adult literacy services throughout the western world have increased their numbers.

With regard to dyslexia, it is known that between 7% and 10% of the adult population may experience dyslexia. The adult literacy service and other interventions have been very successful in providing people with support on this issue. However, the service is not as specialised as it could be, as there is no support from educational psychological services run by the Department of Education and Science. Adults are excluded because of resource constraints. There is a need to provide additional support within services to help people with dyslexia in particular, as we know it is a condition that is inherited, often passing from parents to children.

For example, with regard to the Dyslexia Association of Ireland's locally-based initiative, many parents helping their children have dyslexia themselves but are not necessarily in receipt of support to address their own problems with the condition. In some cases parents hide their dyslexia from their children, and we know of situations where children are brought to workshops against the will of one of the parents. The husband or the wife, whoever has dyslexia, is in this case in denial that they have the condition and have passed it on to the child. It is a major issue.

There is a problem fundamentally because there is a legacy of people who did not receive sufficient education first time around. These people came from poorer backgrounds and did not pay for second-level education. Such people are still coming from poorer backgrounds, as we know that children leaving primary and secondary schools with literacy difficulties are poorer people from poor areas, and who have parents with literacy difficulties. People are still leaving the school system with literacy difficulties, although not in the same numbers as previously. The level is nonetheless unacceptable from an international perspective. As the problem needs to be addressed, we are calling for a literacy strategy across all age groups, regardless of whether the person is in school or in a programme. The policy must take in all age groups, from birth to death, to provide an option for people who wish to improve their literacy and numeracy skills.

Ms McDonnell

Most of the questions have been answered. I will respond to questions on the practice of area-based partnerships. Deputy Hoctor asked about examples of programmes which address family literacy. In 2000, as part of a national reading initiative, ten ADM-funded groups undertook a pilot initiative entitled "Extending Family Literacy", which is detailed in the submission. The programme was very successful and had many unexpected outcomes. The emphasis was on enhancing reading capacity, ability and competency of children and young people, but the entire intervention had a positive result in developing an interest in literacy among adults, who were primarily parents. Some of the outcomes were increases in their self-confidence and greater ease in terms of helping their children with homework. It also enabled some of them to go for the first time to buy books for their children. There was an increased confidence in terms of interacting with schools, particularly given that many of these adults had been loathe to interact with professionals in schools. There were examples where they felt more confident to engage on some type of equal basis with educationalists. It was a pilot initiative and was not mainstreamed. However, some of the partnerships have found resources within their budgets to continue some of that work. That is an example of family literacy.

As regards that programme, a bank of trainers, including youth workers, parents and community activists, was developed. They were available to deliver the programme on a regional and local basis. There was a continuous aspect to it in so far as they were continuously training and replenishing the stock of trainers. It was accredited initially by the open college network but it has since been accredited through FETAC at level two. The accreditation happened after the pilot phase.

A question was asked about the place of ICT in literacy. We referred to that in the case study of the Drogheda partnership. The experience was that younger people with literacy difficulties were loathe to acknowledge a literacy difficulty, but they showed an interest in computers and ICT in general. That was used as a tool of engagement or a hook to draw them in before working with them in a more subtle and discreet way to address the underlying literacy problems. I agree that literacy is not confined to areas of socio-economic disadvantage, but the experience of partnership is in those designated disadvantaged areas.

A question was asked about whether funding would fulfil all the needs. Funding will never fulfil all the needs. While it is important to start off with an adequate funding base, it is not the only aspect of the problem. Part of the challenge is coordination and integration to ensure there is no replication and duplication and that no one falls through the net. However, one must start from a sound financial base. I am not in a position to comment on funding at national level. I am speaking from the perspective of ADM and know that many of the partnerships ring-fence specific amounts of their overall budget for literacy activities.

As regards rural isolation and transport inaccessibility, we have encountered similar difficulties. We have not found a solution, although in some cases we have used community based facilities as much as possible. However, there is a difficulty in rural areas. That brings us back to the point about the need for a capital budget for literacy. The issue of premises and transport is pervasive. It is not only related to literacy. If it was resolved at a general level, it would have positive repercussions in terms of delivering literacy on a community basis.

Outreach is important, but it is probably one of the most challenging areas of the work. In our experience we use community and youth workers who already work on an outreach basis. That approach and methodology is an inherent part of their training. As they already have existing relationships with individuals, they are working from the basis of longer established and trusting relationships in order to try to put interventions in place to address literacy difficulties. However, that would concern young people more, particularly young offenders. We have some practice in that field.

On the inter-agency side, to some extent we are fortunate in terms of the structure of our partnerships. The boards of our partnerships reflect the social partnership composition. All the social partners are represented on the boards of partnership as well as the statutory, voluntary and community sectors. Therefore, we have representation from FÁS and the VECs in addition to delivering local employment services. The tendency is to use that network and those contacts to progress some of the literacy work we are doing. We are building on established relationship networks, which has had a positive spin-off in terms of bringing greater co-ordination to referral systems. Those are the main points.

Ms Hartley

I would like to address the issue of access, which everybody has raised. One of our recommendations is to start by the proper gathering of accurate information and data. When we talk about access we should not say, "Let us do more access with the same group of people." The real challenge is to ask whom we are not accessing and why. Gathering appropriate data in the first instance would be a help to do this. This is linked to another of our recommendations — that we need to have an increase in the type or model of literacy that we are providing. There should be an increase in thematic literacy so that one could access people who are attending leisure courses in the community. That is a good way to access people. Why not locate the literacy provision with those who usually do communications or personal development courses?

That matter is also linked to the issue of capital budgets. We need a capital budget. In County Dublin VEC we have tried to develop several purpose-built facilities for adult and further education, such as the life centre, which uses the old vocational school building. Headway Ireland is based there and does a programme for people with severe head injuries and trauma. Similarly, the Department of Education and Science supports both the City and County Dublin VECs to provide services on-site in the Darndale discovery centre. Interestingly, our statistics for students attending adult education in Blanchardstown doubled within the space of one year once we were given the use of, and were able to take over, the old Garda station there. It became our adult education centre. Once we had a firm, user-friendly base we were then able to concentrate on developing effective outreach strategies in places like Mulhuddart and Corduff.

It would also be helpful to focus on the different model of literacy in our service. It is not more of the same. We have to support what it there but the challenge is for us to examine, in particular, the role of the adult literacy organiser and to see that position linking and integrating across the whole range of VEC services. We welcome the appointment and advent of community education facilitators.

Ms Bernie McDonnell referred to youth workers. The role of youth services is huge in terms of enabling us to integrate our existing services. Perhaps, therefore, the first step for us as the main providers is to examine other programmes that can enable us to access and effect genuine progression options. Even in our discussion today, we keep talking about literacy. It is helpful, however, to focus on the core skills, which are literacy, numeracy and ICT. They are not separate strands. That integrated approach might assist us to develop integrated literacy within existing programmes and programmes in the community.

Another model of improving access can be provided by more sophisticated referral networks. There is an example in Tallaght of a high support referral unit which is just for a small number of clients based in Tallaght's local employment service. It is very labour intensive, yet we have to evaluate its effectiveness.

Ms McDonnell also mentioned the importance of effective inter-agency relationships. It comes down to people having to work hard at such relationships. I will cite a few examples of that. I would like to commend the Department for introducing the Back to Education initiative which has provided an opportunity to work in partnership with different providers. The key for us in the VECs is to examine how we can work with partners more effectively. We cannot do it all but we can support other partners in the community.

I refer, in particular, to an initiative in Tallaght supported by County Dublin VEC, South Dublin County Council, FÁS and Partas, a community enterprise centre. The initiative to which I refer provides a skills training programme for young Travellers and has proved very effective when all the agencies came together. South Dublin County Council was involved in a pilot project called Travellers and Beyond. While the initial emphasis was on Traveller accommodation, it was interesting how that developed into wider networks, which include the Health Service Executive, the VEC and the local authority, to examine different strategies to assist Traveller women access employment in the local authority. They are trained by the VEC, supported by FÁS and are employed by the local authority. We should examine more imaginative ways and get away from the model of a literacy service always in isolation from other activities.

Reference was made to the critical role of adult guidance. VECs have an adult guidance initiative and a range of local employment services provide guidance services, which are helpful.

Deputy Hoctor referred to ICT. People with ability in this area should be seen as possessing one of the core skills. A number of initiatives are in place, such as a discrete programme with accreditation and supports relating to literacy and numeracy. It is, therefore, interwoven into the programmes. We have received word that we have been successful with a fast-tracked information technology submission to develop a new Leonardo programme, which provides interactive materials for students relating to ICT.

Funding is not the only answer. Additional funding is desperately needed but we could examine utilising and sharing funding in a different way. Dyslexia raises the issue of specific learning difficulties. There is a need for particular resources to be made available to people with specific learning difficulties but I emphasise the importance of trained professionally qualified staff working with our adult tutors. The notion of what is recognised in terms of qualifications for teachers in adult education is critical.

The issue of male tutors is interesting. They are difficult to attract and this is linked to the issue of the career structure. Career opportunities and full-time posts are lacking. In our evaluation of our return to learning programmes, the vast majority of participants were male and the gender of the tutors was not an issue because the quality of the provision and skills of the tutors were the most important factors mentioned. However, we have identified the recruitment of tutors from a wide range of backgrounds to reflect our wide client base as an action within our education and service plan.

ESOL is taking up an increasing amount of our budget. This is why we recommend that it not only requires a separate budget but that it should be recognised as a separate curriculum in its own right and should merit specialist attention. I stress the need to link the various issues because they are not stand alone in nature. I refer here to the issues of access, capital funding, ICT, specific learning difficulties, who we access and how and inter-agency co-operation. The key point — I accept that this is something of a cliché — is that integration is required. We must make the emerging structures, particularly those at county development level, work.

Ms Stewart

Some of the language relating to literacy can be difficult. The Vice Chairman mentioned referral networks. We report to the Department of Education and Science on a six-monthly basis and, as part of that, we are asked to report on our referral networks, namely, who we are dealing with in terms of co-operation. Are we talking to community welfare officers? Are we involved with partnerships? We list those for the Department. Most VECs, including ours, ensure that there is co-operation at local and city level. If there are particular difficulties, for example, in respect of a programme we are operating in co-operation with FÁS, we ensure that we engage in discussions. At local level, contact is between the adult literacy organiser and the community welfare officer and no one else gets in the way. That is the connection.

I am interested in the question about men. Representatives of Dublin City Council will appear before the committee tomorrow to discuss the programme they operate. We provide that service with the council.

I spoke earlier about on-site provision. We already provide classes in prisons and hospitals. We have learned from the Dublin City Council initiative that the workers involved are all men and that a number of them have been working for 40 years for the council without ever raising the issue that they had a problem with literacy. The council will talk tomorrow about the success and progress. We must go where people are and identify and target the niches. This is hugely difficult and challenging.

Several years ago one of our adult literacy organisers in Finglas, a lady called Frances McManus, talked to Patricia Scanlan, the local librarian. At the time we could not access books. We did not have books suitable for adults. We had books produced in England but we did not have books produced in Ireland that were suitable for adults. Frances persuaded Patricia to write a story entitled Second Chance. There are now 20 books in the series resulting from that story and after tomorrow’s meeting there will be 30. I have provided copies of them, murders, love stories, Maeve Binchy stories etc. For the first time, our students can say they have read authors such as Patricia Scanlan and Maeve Binchy. It is hugely important that they can say this for, perhaps, the first time ever. We gave specific instructions on how the books should be written, in short sentences and paragraphs and in clear language. A company called Open Door took the books on board and they are now used abroad for teaching foreign nationals who are learning English. All the authors who contributed to the series gave their services voluntarily and whatever money is made is given to particular charities. This is a practical example of what has been done.

I will finish on a rather strange example. Several years ago we got money from the Department of Social and Family Affairs to buy laptops to help with the literacy scheme. We have an open learning centre in Finglas and I use it as an example of different methodology and different ways of learning. Students can book in, access a computer and a relevant software package and learn from it. A facilitator is present in the room, but the student can choose when to come in, between the hours of 9 a.m. and 10 p.m. We thought the "computers on wheels", as we call them, were a great idea although our financial people were worried that the computers would vanish, particularly as they were laptops that the student could take off with them. However, the students are learning in two ways. They are learning to read and write and how to use computers. It is a "win-win" situation for everybody. These are just two practical examples of what happens.

Vice Chairman

I thank everybody for their contributions.

Sitting suspended at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 1.35 p.m.

Vice Chairman

I welcome the representatives of County Clare Vocational Education Committee, Clare Youth Services, County Donegal Vocational Education Committee and the department of psychiatry of old age of the HSE's Northern Area Health Board. Ba mhaith liom freisin fáilte a chur roimh ionadaithe County Galway Vocational Education Committee agus Breacadh. Each of the groups will be invited to make a five minute presentation. Each group's presentation should highlight the main points contained in its written submission. As many organisations are in attendance, I ask each of them to observe the five minute limit on presentations to ensure we will have sufficient time for a question and answer session. Once the presentations have been completed, I am sure members of the joint committee will have questions to ask the representatives of the various groups.

Before we begin, I draw attention to the fact that while members of the joint committee have absolute privilege, this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I call on Ms Moira Greene, presenting on behalf of County Clare Vocational Education Committee and the Clare Youth Services, to begin.

Ms Moira Greene

Our submission gives a detailed overview of the range of literacy programmes operating in County Clare to meet the diverse needs of the many persons and groups which attend our service. It emphasises the partnership approach which has provided the seed bed for many of our innovations, including family learning, themed literacy, "bring a friend to class" and social change modules. The submission is the work of a partnership between County Clare Vocational Education Committee and the Clare Youth Services.

I propose to make a few points about the theory of literacy which shapes and informs all our practices. It is a social model of literacy which assumes that the goal of all literacy provision is to raise people's capacities for social, civic and economic participation. All literacy activities are social in nature. For example: "Did you read a newspaper today? If so, did anyone borrow it? Did you talk about a news story, take note of an advertisement or event or make a telephone call? Did you notice any signs coming here? How many others would have seen the same sign? Did you read a good book lately? If so, did you talk about it, pass it on to a friend or did someone give it to you?" Literacy is not a solo activity but a social activity.

We develop our reading and literacy practices through socialisation. When one thinks of all the different texts one reads, of which there must be hundreds, how many of them did one first encounter in a classroom setting? I guess the answer is "not many". Most of our literacy repertoire, that is, the range of texts we are comfortable reading and writing, is developed outside the classroom through interacting with others. Moreover, through social experiences of reading and writing we develop links to literacy networks that provide a scaffold — a support structure — which helps us to expand and enlarge our range of literacy practices.

One of the defining characteristics of those who have literacy difficulties is that they have not developed strong social networks around literacy for two reasons. First, the vast majority of literacy learners who attend the County Clare scheme are from the social margins. They are early school leavers, people with disabilities, ex-offenders, non-nationals, low skilled workers, people experiencing rural isolation, the long-term unemployed and Travellers. They experience social isolation through poverty, prejudice, unemployment, social status, age and geography, factors which limit their social opportunities. Second, a person may have social opportunities but the experience of learning to read will have been so frustrating and negative that he or she deliberately avoids developing social networks of literacy so as not to be caught out or embarrassed by his or her problems. The difficulty with this approach is that it exacerbates the problem because without the development of the social networks and literacy, that which has been learned in the classroom stagnates. One of the central goals of literacy schemes must be to guide the learner to develop new social networks around literacy and not to become the sole support structure for the learner in question. This involves good communications with other agencies and services, joint initiatives and a wide variety of classes to meet divergent needs and interests. By linking the learner into more literacy networks the scheme should, at the same time, facilitate greater social participation.

If literacy is social by nature, it is also dynamic rather than static. Social change changes literacy. On a personal level, changes in a person's social roles bring about changes in literacy practices. A person may change jobs, become a parent, lose a spouse, join a committee or move to a new country. As the individual adapts to a new social role, he or she is also socialised into different forms of reading and writing practices. Where there is a gap between the new social role and a person's confidence to participate fully in the literacy practices assumed by that role, the local literacy service can help.

At societal level, significant changes — social, political, economic and technological — have impacted significantly on literacy practices. For example, the transfer of clients from long-stay hospitals into the community, the arrival of asylum seekers, refugees and migrant workers, new accountability measures in farming, the increased use of technologies, computerisation, e-mail, the Internet, ATM machines, mobile phones, the introduction of the driver theory test, and the changeover to the euro and the kilometre. All of these changes have resulted in developments in literacy provision such as workplace literacy, family learning, English language classes, and the social change modules. The changes are not finished. We can sit down, write a curriculum and establish framework criteria for accreditation but whatever we develop this year is likely to need change and adaptation almost as quickly as it is drafted, piloted and published.

Literacy schemes must be funded in a way that allows them to maintain their creativity and flexibility while at the same time being accountable for how they operate and why. A social model of literacy provision would allow for this creativity and flexibility in the face of change while carrying a measure of success implicit in its goal. The real target of literacy provision is greater social, civic and economic participation. Success in literacy is measured by recording tangible instances of greater confidence and skills demonstrated through increased social participation such as when a driver theory test is passed, a parent-teacher meeting is attended for the first time, a vote is cast, employment is found, a learner brings a friend to class, further education opportunities are explored. This is when we know the service is working.

Vice Chairman

Iarraim ar Neasa de Bhailis, atá ag labhairt thar cheann an tSeirbhís Litearthachta Aosaigh Iarthar na Gaillimhe, Coiste Gairmoideachais Chondae na Gaillimhe.

Neasa de Bhailis

Seo na moltaí a chuireamar le chéile. Ba cheart tús áit a thabhairt dóibh siúd leis an leibhéal litearthachta is ísle, ach tá muid freisin den tuairim go bhfuil bearna ag an taobh eile den speictream, is é sin, nuair atá foghlaimeoirí críochnaithe le leibhéal a haon FETAC, tá folús ansin mar nach féidir leis an tseirbhís litearthachta freastal orthu níos mó, agus b'fhéidir nach bhfeileann cúrsaí lán-aimseartha dóibh mar go bhfuil siad ag obair. Ceapaimid gur cheart cead a thabhairt do scéimeanna litearthachta a bheith níos solúbtha i gceantair iargúlta mar nach mbíonn éagsúlacht mór cúrsaí páirt-aimseartha ar fáil.

Ó thaobh bealaí nuálacha le teagmháil a dhéanamh leo siúd a dteastaíonn an tseirbhís uathu agus forbairt ar thionscnaimh ar leith do ghrúpaí atá faoi míbhuntáiste, seo iad na moltaí. Ó thaobh ranganna ainmnithe, molaimid nach mbeadh an teideal litearthachta ar na ranganna. Molaimid teideal mar "Cur feabhas ar do chuid Gaeilge", "Cur feabhas ar do chuid Béarla" nó" Ranganna Teoirice Tiomána". Ní maith le daoine go dtugtar fadhb litearthachta ar a leibhéal scileanna, agus bheadh sé i bhfad níos compordaí freastal ar ranganna gan an lipéad sin.

Ó thaobh ranganna le téama, bheadh na foghlaimeoirí ag cur lena chuid scileanna litearthachta agus ag an am céanna ag foghlaim ceard nua, mar shampla adhmadóireacht, cócaireacht, grianghrafadóireacht nó ríomhairí. Ó thaobh na clár foghlama clainne, ceapaimid go bhfhuil siad an mhaith go deo. Cuireann siad le scileanna tuismitheoirí agus iad ag tabhairt cúnaimh dá gclann. Ina dhiaidh sin bíonn fonn ar thuismitheoirí leanúint lena gcuid oideachais féin le cláracha VTOS, cúrsaí ríomhairí nó cúrsaí cúram leanaí. Theastódh comh-ordnóirí chun freagracht a ghlacadh ar chúrsaí den chineál seo, agus dá bhrí sin theastódh tuilleadh airgead uainn.

Ó thaobh ranganna do ghrúpaí faoi leith, séard a bheadh i gceist, mar shampla, ná ranganna do dhaoine os cinn 65. Tá an ceart céanna acu ar an oideachas atá ag chuile dhuine eile agus is ceart a leithéad de ranganna ríomhaireachta, scileanna cumarsáide, cúrsaí litearthachta, srl. a bheith ar fáil do na daoine seo.

Ó thaobh leathnú agus láidriú ar na seirbhísí atreoraithe, theastódh cúrsaí le háird a tharraingt ar chúrsaí litearthachta, nó literacy awareness courses, do aon duine atá ag plé leis an bpobal, mar shampla, ranna rialtais, ospidéil, óstáin, monarchana, srl.

Ó thaobh cúrsaí litearthachta san ionad oibre, ba mhaith linn borradh a fheiceáil ag teacht ar na cúrsaí seo. Teastaíonn spreagadh agus tacaíocht ó bhainistíocht le sin a chur i gcríoch. Mar shampla, bheadh tacaíocht ó Údarás na Gaeltachta nó an IDA, mar shampla, tábhachtach san obair sin. Tá cúrsaí ar bhun faoi láthair le FÁS agus na comhairlí contae agus an-tairbhe ag baint leo. Ba cheart leanúint leis an obair seo agus na cúrsaí a neartú. Theastódh comh-ordnóirí le haghaidh an scéim seo a chur i gcríoch.

Ó thaobh seirbhísí tacaíochta, teastaíonn an-fhorbairt a dhéanamh ar chúrsaí comhairleoireachta agus measúnachta trí Ghaeilge, mar shampla, tástáil i gcomhair dyslexia. Níl a leithéad ar fáil i nGaeilge. Bíonn cúrsaí taistil agus cúrsaí cúraim leanaí ina ndris chosáin i gcónaí agus muid ag eagrú cúrsaí litearthachta, go mór mhór in áiteanna iargúlta. Ba maith linn cabhair airgid le sin a chur i gcríoch agus le haghaidh níos mó teagascóirí íochaí a bheadh ann.

Tá an-obair ar siúl ag Breacadh, an acmhainn aos oideachais trí Ghaeilge sa Ghaeltacht agus ba mhaith linn iad sin a fheiceáil á dtreisiú agus á neartú mar thogra buan.

Ms Crona Gallagher

On behalf of County Donegal Vocational Education Committee, I thank the joint committee for the opportunity to address it on the priority issues that concern us as a provider in County Donegal. Our presentation will be in English but we would welcome questions from members in Irish or English. In the few minutes allowed we will first give a quick overview of the pertinent issues in County Donegal in so far as they affect us as a literacy service provider and then refer to the provision made, the relevant issues and what we hope the solutions or recommendations will be.

As members know, Donegal is a very large county. We have responsibility for two inhabited islands and deal with the largest Gaeltacht population in the country. Donegal is a rural county in which only 20% of the population of 137,000 are living in towns of over 1,500 people. This has implications for us as a provider. While County Donegal has the longest coastline in the country, its inland border which is shared with County Leitrim is only 3 km in length. The rest is shared with Northern Ireland, namely, counties Derry, Tyrone and Fermanagh. County Donegal has poor transport infrastructure, one local airport, a poor road system and no rail service. Letterkenny, the largest town, is 150 miles from Dublin. At 15.6%, we have the highest rate of unemployment in the country. Over 600 redundancies were announced in August alone in the pharmaceutical and textile industries.

One may have heard that on 25 August the Combat Poverty Agency launched a report called Mapping Poverty: National, Regional and County Patterns, commissioned from the ESRI. Donegal was identified as one of the three counties at the highest risk of poverty, counties Leitrim and Mayo being the other two. The report states structural factors such as unemployment, a lack of education and qualifications as well as lone parenthood remain paramount in determining poverty levels. While nobody needed a report to tell us this, the findings are recent and highlight the issues impacting on our provision and service.

On the educational quotient in County Donegal, we are still way below the national average in terms of educational attainment. Perhaps more interestingly, we are also below the level attained by the two counties nearest to us, Sligo and Leitrim, although one would expect a similar level. We are 7% below the national average in terms of achievement at third level; 13% below the national average number who have achieved a leaving certificate or higher; and 11% above the national average number who have only received primary level education.

On the plus side, Donegal is a beautiful county. It has a thriving network of community education groups, community development groups and women's groups. The infrastructure for these groups is reasonably good because there has been much investment under the PEACE and INTERREG programmes, and the IFI, as well as Exchequer funding.

On literacy provision in County Donegal, the VEC uses a learner-centred approach. I know this is jargon, as is "beginning with the needs of individuals", but we really do try to act this out and work with each person as an individual. I will return to the implications of this approach.

The literacy service is part of an integrated approach. It links with progression routes, the guidance service and with all the other parts of the adult education service. That is an important point for literacy services, namely, that they cannot exist on their own. Our target groups are those that have already been mentioned, social welfare recipients, parents, families, people with disabilities or specific learning difficulties, native Irish speakers in our case, individuals living in isolated areas, Travellers, asylum seekers, refugees and migrant workers.

In 2004 we had 177 volunteer tutors. Therefore, there is a sizeable voluntary body in the midst of a statutory organisation, which is important to note. Last year there were 111 paid part-time tutors and six full-time staff. We provided courses in 36 venues in the county with 863 learners. I have given the committee the statistics and I will not go through them all. However, the more pertinent include the fact that 464 or 24% of learners were under the age of 35. That speaks for itself. Some 1,774 people left school at 16 or under. Of this number, 553 were unemployed and 453 are not in the labour force. Some 223 are availing of accredited programmes.

The range of services provided is similar to many other VECs. We have one to one and group tuition as well as all the FÁS courses and workplace learning. We have Irish language literacy, which perhaps some people do not have and we avail of Breacadh's resources to do that. However, the biggest increase we have experienced in recent years is in the area of family learning. We see this and working with families as a way to get people to engage in the literacy service who would not have normally. People will do things for their children that they will not do for themselves. When parents find they cannot help their children after they have reached the junior infants stage, they are often motivated to seek help for themselves and that is our link to them. We try to keep them, once we get them into a family learning programme. The outcomes from such participation are improved literacy skills, increased confidence in people's own ability, as Ms Green indicated, and a renewed interest in participation in community life and the regeneration this brings about. It is not just about increased literacy skills.

Moving on to the issues that are most important for us, there is a need for recognition of quality work involving people with low literacy levels. It is slow and labour intensive and therefore comparatively expensive. In County Donegal there are high levels of poverty. Traditionally, there are low levels of educational attainment and a history of early school leaving. Many people feel education is for other people, not for them. The promotion required along with the delivery of services and supports needs to be thoroughly thought out. It has to be done on an individual basis and is very labour intensive. Consequently, it will be somewhat more expensive. However, we need local solutions to local challenges and problems and that brings me to networking at national level.

Sometimes we find it frustrating that Government bodies such as the Departments of Education and Science and Health and Children or the Departments of Social and Family Affairs and Enterprise, Trade and Employment as well as other bodies such as trade unions and employers do not appear to work closely together. Decision making is done at national level. Such decisions are not necessarily the best for us, working at local level. We have a large geographic area and population spread to deal with, which implies the cost of our provision is higher in relative terms. It means we have to have small groups. If someone is situated in the back end of Fanad on a Tuesday night in winter, he or she will not travel 30 miles with a baby in tow for a class, for example. That is the type of implication with which we must work. There is an absence of dedicated budgets for specific target groups which I have mentioned. They are harder to provide for and, therefore, more costly. They are harder to engage with and delivery of the services is more difficult. Smaller groups are needed with individual attention etc. To concentrate on the more needy, more resources are needed.

There are inadequate opportunities for staff to access structured career paths and professional training in adult education generally and in literacy teaching in particular. Staff provision is crucial in terms of literacy provision. The commitment of staff is crucial in the provision of literacy services. We need committed qualified staff. Astoundingly, we get such staff, but we will not continue to attract such good staff without proper career structures.

As members are aware, the number of asylum seekers, refugees and migrant workers has increased since 2000-2001. The people concerned come under our remit but a separate budget to cover the cost of language and literacy classes for them was not provided. There is very little research at local level.

The recommendations are for adequate, flexible budgets for locally appropriate solutions, to include how we promote our services and the types of supports we may need to give, such as financial incentives for people to attend classes. The major issues are funding for child care, elder care and transport. We provide only two hours tuition per week while all the research shows people need far more time than that and we need increased funding. Among the recommendation is that the relevant Departments and other bodies such as unions and employers would work in partnership in approaching the issue; that dedicated budgets are needed to design and deliver programmes for special target groups; the career structure and staffing of adult education, in particular literacy should be reviewed; that a national strategy for the provision of English for speakers of other languages, ESOL be formulated, and that provision would be made for investment in research.

Vice Chairman

I thank Ms Gallagher for her contribution. I call on Ms Tina McGrath, who is representing the department of psychiatry of old age in the northern area of the Health Service Executive.

Ms Tina McGrath

In my submission, I examine the relationship between literacy and health and report on an innovative programme in which I have been involved with the health boards since 1998.

Current national and international literature highlights the concerning number of the Irish population who have literacy difficulties. The National Adult Literacy Agency, NALA, made an important correlation in 2002 between low literacy skills and health status. McCarthy, the author concludes:

Low literacy has implications for the way people think about themselves and their environment. It has implications for people's capacity to take in information about the world around them and make sense of that information.

The NALA document marks an historic watershed in acknowledging the extent of the relationship between low literacy skills and individual health status. The notion of health literacy is a relatively new concept. This form of literacy is characterised not just by the comprehension of oral and written communication, but by the ability to utilise this information to successfully function in health care settings with maximum personal benefit. Implicit in this definition are the communication skills to seek clarification and-or adjunct information as well as the capacity to explore alternative options to make fully informed decisions as an active participant in health care encounters.

An overview of the development of health promotion strategies in the past 20 years reveals a strong emphasis on individual responsibility for personal health. Significant determinants of health are beyond the control of the health care sector. Health is a lifestyle issue influenced by an individual's management of it as a resource. Lifestyle is identified as a strong influence on health status reciprocally influenced by the person's environment. The National Health Promotion Strategy 2000-2005 states that "people's ability to pursue good health is limited by varying degrees of skills, information and economic means". Poor literacy skills are specifically mentioned as a barrier to accessing health information and health services. Current health policy identifies that "the health system must focus on providing individuals with the information and support they need to make informed health choices".

The implications of low literacy levels for health and well-being are of serious concern. Better health outcomes are the result of access to and comprehension of health information as well as informed management of self-care. It is imperative that functional literacy in health care settings be targeted to address the current inequity. The northern area of the HSE takes an innovate approach to health promotion and I have been involved in a functional health literacy project in a health care setting.

The womens' bodies: womens' minds project grew out of staff concern for a group of vulnerable women who were long-term users of mental health services. My work as an occupational therapist is concerned with facilitating individuals' occupational performance to independently negotiate their preferred lifestyle to the benefit of themselves and the wider community. It has an ethos that places the client at the focal point of therapeutic intervention. A multidisciplinary project was developed in collaboration with nursing colleagues and the health promotion department, northern area, and deemed by it to be "a model of good practice" in evaluation. It was also short-listed for the HSE innovation awards 2005. The intention was to develop an innovative health promotion and health education programme to specifically target some of our most disadvantaged clients with the prerequisite knowledge to make informed choices and decisions with regard to their own health and autonomy. A two-day training of trainers in delivery of this course was undertaken in September 2004, with trainers now running this course in their own settings.

The course specifically addressed sexual self-care in chronic mental health settings and has evolved now to include community clients and vocational training centres. Important insights yielded by the course include the following: in the vast majority of cases, knowledge levels were insufficient to permit the understanding of even basic health care issues; most clients did not possess a sufficient repertoire of information to make informed decisions; most did not understand basic anatomy or physiology to the point of being unable to identify major body structures in 2D or 3D; none could understand diagrams, charts or information presented in health promotion brochures; many had difficulties with anatomical scaling and medical nomenclature; and none fully understood how to negotiate the health care system or where to go for help in relation to sexual health issues such as STI screening or smear tests.

The course consisted of six sessions designed to be cumulative, gradually adding to the information delivered the previous week. Innovative strategies included the following: the use of surface anatomy to orientate students to their own bodies and somatic sensation; the use of 3D anatomical models which could be seen and handled and put together much like a jigsaw; the use of medical charts to facilitate deduction of 3D models to 20 coloured drawings; the demonstration of actual samples of medical instruments and contraceptive devices that could be seen and handled; the use of metaphor, anecdote and story-telling; the use of non-literacy based homework exercises such as drawing, colouring and jigsaws; and a strong emphasis on literacy-proofing where written information was provided.

The course was very successful, with students scoring significantly higher on post-course tests. Students regarded the social interactions such as group discussion, question and answer session and listening to each other's stories as highly valuable. Metaphor was found to be extremely useful, as was orientation to somatic sensation and surface anatomy. Manipulation of objects where clients physically interacted with the learning material was found to be very useful. All reported that putting together information through assembly of body parts on anatomical models, engaging in jigsaw puzzles and handling devices to ascertain placement and function was fun and useful in determining the correct anatomical scaling of body parts.

Many qualitative changes have been noted such as spontaneous self-motivated behavioural change, spontaneous health-seeking behaviours, increased assertiveness in medical encounters as well as in relationships, and increased hygiene and grooming. One unanticipated finding was increased mental health and self-esteem in participants. Qualitative themes emerged on evaluation such as useful knowledge, where students described learning things that made sense and could help them in their lives, enhanced self-awareness, where students began to describe themselves as special and took greater care of themselves, increased bodily ownership, where women began to pay attention to their hygiene and grooming as well as addressing diet and exercise, although these were not addressed on the course, and increased assertiveness, where they stated that they had developed the ability to seek clarification, explore options, make informed decisions and say "no".

Health and well-being are strongly correlated with possession of accurate and useful knowledge. Low literacy levels perpetuate poor understanding of the contribution that individuals can make to their own health. Interventions need to be specifically targeted to ensure that the individual understands the information in a way that is useful and applicable to himself or herself. In many cases, individuals lack the necessary prerequisite information to make informed choices and decisions. This may require that such information be provided and explained to the individual to ensure that his or her choices are fully informed and are not compromised by knowledge gaps. Our service has developed a health literacy policy, to which I will draw the attention of the committee.

The majority of health information literature is inaccessible to the target group, using jargon and presuming prerequisite levels of knowledge far above those actually possessed. Such literature is only useful where time has been spent with the individual to facilitate his or her understanding. This may involve imparting information considered "basic". It is important to determine what the person knows and needs to know and to respectfully assist him or her to fill those gaps.

Participation in this course had far-reaching consequences for the self-esteem and confidence of the participants. In addition, it raised their knowledge levels significantly. For the vast majority of participants, this was the first time they had understood the widely disseminated leaflets and brochures designed to inform them of various aspects of sexual health. Health settings are useful places in which to provide literacy and health literacy initiatives to assist people to understand their individual role in the maintenance of their own health by providing key knowledge of personal relevance to those individuals in an accessible manner.

Vice Chairman

Iarraim ar Nóirín Ní Ghrádaigh, atá ag labhairt thar ceann Breacadh.

Nóirín Ní Ghrádaigh

Gabhaim buíochas as an deis seo labhairt leis an gcoiste faoi chúrsaí litearthachta sa Ghaeltacht agus go háirithe faoin ról tacaíochta atá ag Breacadh san obair sin.

Is iad na coistí gairmoideachais agus comhlachtaí páirtíochta sa Ghaeltacht a bhunaigh Breacadh sa bhliain 2000 agus is í an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíochta a mhaoiníonn an tionscadal. Cuireann Breacadh tacaíocht ar fáil do na coistí gairmoideachais le cuidiú leo freastal ar fhoghlaimeoirí fásta sa Ghaeltacht ina dteanga dhúchais. Cuireann Breacadh acmhainní foghlama agus teagaisc ar fáil trí Ghaeilge, chomh maith le cúrsaí traenála do theagascóirí. Tá cur síos ar ár gcuid oibre go dáta san aighneacht a chuir muid faoi bhráid an choiste i mí Aibreáin na bliana seo agus tá rogha dár gcuid foilseachán ar fáil ó chléireach an choiste seo.

Inniu, ba mhaith liom díriú ar thrí rud atá ag teastáil go géar má tá Breacadh agus na coistí gairmoideachais sa Ghaeltacht le dul chun cinn ceart a dhéanamh i gcúrsaí litearthachta agus bunoideachais don fhoghlaimeoir fásta sa Ghaeltacht: an gá atá le hoibrithe forbartha réigiúnaí a cheapadh sna coistí gairmoideachais; an géarghá atá le tuilleadh maoinithe do Bhreacadh, agus le scéal cinnte a fháil faoi mhéid an mhaoinithe sin faoi thús gach bliana, nó ar bhonn trí nó cúig bliana; agus an gá atá le hoifigeach Gaeilge a cheapadh a chuirfeadh úsaid na "Gaeilge nadúrtha" chun cinn in ábhar scríofa poiblí.

Maidir le hoibrithe forbartha réigiúnaí, tá a leithéid aontaithe i bprionsabal ag an Rialtas cheana féin, mar is léir i sliocht ón Pháipear Bán ar Aosoideachas sa bhliain 2000:

. . . the Department of Education and Science has agreed to fund a 3-year initiative in Gaeltacht areas . . . The objective is to develop an integrated adult basic education programme in each area through the medium of Irish . . . Development Workers are being employed to work as an integrated team under the project. . . so that a basic education service through the Irish language can then be delivered locally.

De cheal airgid, níor ceapadh oibrithe forbartha réigiúnaí don Ghaeltacht sa bhliain 2000, mar a bhí beartaithe an t-am sin. Bhí an oiread eagsúlachta ag baint leis an obair a bhí leagtha amach gur socraíodh comhordaitheoir lánaimseartha a cheapadh a d'aimseodh saineolaithe le coimisiúnú, scríbhneoirí cruthaitheacha le leitheoirí grádaithe a scríobh, teagascóirí le cúrsaí traenála agus leabhair shaothair a fhorbairt, teangeolaithe le taighde a dhéanamh ar phatrúin litrithe, ar mhinicíocht focal, ar chúrsaí foghraíochta agus araile sa Ghaeilge.

Ach leis an tairbhe is fearr a bhaint as na hacmhainní atá curtha agus á gcur ar fáil ag Breacadh, tá géarghá anois le hoibrithe forbartha réigiúnaí a cheapadh sna coistí gairmoideachais — oibrithe a bheadh dírithe ar sheirbhís lán-Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil don fhoghlaimeoir fásta sa Ghaeltacht.

Cé go bhfuil acmhainní Bhreacadh á n-úsáid ag eagraithe aoslitearthachta sa Ghaeltacht, ar an drochuair, is taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht — agus trí mheán an Bhéarla — a reáchtáiltear formhór na gclár comhtháite oideachais a dtig le cainteoirí dúchais Gaeilge freastal orthu — VTOS, Teagmháil na nÓg, BTEI, etc.

An dara pointe a ba mhaith linn a ardú ná an géarghá atá le tuilleadh maoinithe do Bhreacadh, agus le scéal cinnte a fháil faoi mhéid an mhaoinithe sin faoi thús gach bliana, nó ar bhonn trí nó cúig bliana mar a luaigh mé.

Chuir an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíochta in iúl dúinn in earrach na bliana seo nach gcuirfí maoiniú níos lú ar fáil dúinn i 2005 ná mar a cuireadh ar fáil dúinn i 2004, is é sin ná €160,000. Tugadh le fios go mb'fhéidir go gcuirfí níos mó ná sin ar fáil dúinn nuair a bheadh airgead na Roinne á roinnt, ach níl buiséad Bhreacadh do 2005 socraithe fós ag an Roinn, aineoinn muid i mí Mhéan Fómhair.

Tuigeann an Roinn go n-íocann €160,000 in aghaidh na bliana as tuarastáil Bhreacadh agus as costais oifige agus riaracháin an tionscadail, ach nach bhfágann sé mórán le hacmhainní nua a choimisiúnú agus a chur i gcló. Táimid i bhfad taobh thiar de lucht an Bhéarla. Tá go leor acmhainní agus rudaí ag teastáil go fóill. Mar sin féin, níor cuireadh airgead ar bith eile inár dtreo go fóill i mbliana, rud a d'fhág nach raibh muid in acmhainn aon ábhair nua a choimisiúnú i 2005. Ar an taobh eile den scéal, beimid faoi bhrú idir anseo agus an Nollaig, má thugtar airgead breise dúinn, le go mbeidh sé caite roimh dheireadh na mbliana. Mar a thuigeann sibh, ní féidir pleanáil mar is ceart faoi na coinníollacha seo.

An tríú pointe a ba mhaith liom a lua leis na baill ná an gá atá le hoifigeach Gaeilge a cheapadh a chuirfeadh úsáid na "Gaeilge nádúrtha" chun cinn in ábhar scríofa poiblí.

Tá eolas ag baill an choiste, tá mé cinnte, ar an ghluaiseacht atá ar bun le "plain English" a chur chun cinn in ábhar poiblí, idir bhileoga eolais, thoinneacha, phóstaeirí agus araile. Brúghrúpa neamhspleách atá sa "Plain English Campaign", a throideann ar son eolas poiblí a bheith ar fáil in "plain English". Tá sárthacaíocht faighte ag an ghrúpa in 80 tír éagsúil.

Tá géarghá le seirbhís den chineál sin don Ghaeilge. Is fada nós ag muintir na Gaeltachta an leagan Béarla de gach sort eolais phoiblí a chuartú, de bharr nach dtuigeann said "Gaeilge na leabhar" nó "Gaeilge an Rialtais", mar a thugann siad uirthi.

Caithfear aghaidh a thabhairt ar an nGaeilge seo nach bhfuil intuigthe nó inléite ag an chainteoir dúchais, agus anois an t-am. Sna blianta beaga romhainn amach beidh an t-uafás ábhair phoiblí á áistriú go Gaeilge le hAcht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla.

Dhéanfadh oifigeach Gaeilge mar a luadh thuas "Gaeilge nádúrtha" a chur chun cinn i measc aistritheoirí, rannóga Rialtais agus eagraíochtaí Stáit trí sheisiúin traenála agus tacaíocht eagarthóireachta a chur ar fáil. Mar oibrithe litearthachta, ní leor dúinn scileanna maithe litearthachta a theagasc. Caithfimid féin iad a chleachtadh, ag cinntiú go mbeidh an t-ábhar a fhoilsímid soléite agus sothuigthe.

Mar sin, molann Breacadh an méid seo a leanas i dtreo chur chun cinn na litearthachta agus an bhunoideachais i measc cainteoirí dúchais Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht: oibrithe forbartha réigiúnaí a cheapadh sna coistí gairmoideachais ábhartha, oibrithe a bheadh dírithe ar sheirbhís lán-Ghaeilge a sholáthar don fhoghlaimeoir fásta sa Ghaeltacht; tuilleadh maoinithe do Bhreacadh, agus scéal cinnte a fháil faoi mhéid an mhaoinithe sin faoi thús gach bliana, nó ar bhonn trí nó cúig bliana; agus oifigeach Gaeilge a cheapadh a chuirfeadh úsáid na "Gaeilge nádúrtha" chun cinn in ábhar scríofa poiblí.

Vice Chairman

Go raibh maith agat agus go raibh maith agaibh go léir.

Deputy Hoctor

I welcome and thank all the participants who have given us very enlightening presentations. I look forward to hearing some of the answers. I must leave the joint committee at 2.30 p.m. for another meeting in the House which I must attend.

An bhfuil níos mó airgid nó deontas ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta a bhfuil fonn orthu feabhas a chur ar a gcuid scríbhneoireachta nó léitheoireachta? An bhfuil go leor leabhar oiriúnacha trí Ghaeilge ar fáil chun an léitheoireacht oiriúnach a dhéanamh leis na foghlaimeoirí? Conas a théann an teachtaireacht amach, go mórmhór chuig na daoine sna háiteanna iargúlta i nDún na nGall agus i nGaillimh, go bhfuil an tseirbhís seo ar fáil? An úsáidtear an raidió?

Have the delegates come across people who have become deskilled in literacy, who have lost their Irish or their English through lack of reading or too much time spent watching television? Have approaches been made by people of various ages who need an increase in language skills across the board?

Deputy English

I thank participants for their presentations. We received the submissions prior to this meeting because there is a considerable amount of information and detail in them that will help us greatly in analysing this question. As there are common trends, my questions can be answered by whoever wishes to do so.

The concept of not directly promoting adult literacy and themes classes seems to work very well. In County Clare classes were offered on how to use the text in driving tests and so on. There are nice ideas but are there any new ones that we could use to promote this as a general theme throughout the country? What is the best way to encourage people to attend classes? Do our guests find that people come to them because of something that happens in their lives that encourages them to find out how they can improve their skills or is it because they hear about the classes first and become used to the idea? Children might come home from school and ask for help with their lessons but their parents feel they cannot help, meaning they must get help themselves. Is it through advertisement that people hear of these classes?

The barriers to entry seem to be funding, in many cases, and people's self-esteem. In our guests' views, what is the greatest barrier to entry for people who do not or cannot avail of these services? We heard of people who, due to issues of accessibility, cannot travel to the places where classes are held. In County Clare or County Galway, a mobile service is being promoted. How would this work? Are there any new ideas?

Funding from the State is a major issue that has been raised by this and other submissions today. Is there a case at local level for tapping into different businesses to promote courses? Do some companies and industries approach our guests and ask them to organise particular courses? Could our guests charge the companies in this respect? Enterprise boards would often provide specific courses on accountancy or other subjects for particular areas of business or for individual companies. Would it be possible for our guests to do likewise?

The issue of child care is often raised and I am sure reference will be made to it again at the committee's meeting tomorrow. It is often discussed among members. The committee would be interested to know if our guests have any major ideas in terms of schemes or initiatives that might be put in place to help solve this problem.

The concept of a training allowance for people attending courses or classes was raised earlier. Do our guests have any comments on this? Should people be given financial assistance in order to encourage them to pursue courses? If a person must leave his or her job for one day per week, for example, should he or she be provided with assistance? In addition, should financial assistance be provided in respect of transport and child care costs?

Deputy Gogarty

Like Deputy English, I will ask general questions. Many issues were raised. For example, Neasa de Bhailis mentioned the issue of transport and child care, which would be relevant to every area, not just Gaeltacht areas. With regard to the literature and material relating to Gaeltacht areas in County Donegal and Connemara, is it due to budgetary constraints that this is more out of date than that relating to English-speaking areas? I see that our guests are shaking their heads, which I hope is a good sign that there is a sufficient budget for up to date transcripts even though our guests are trying for plain-spoken Irish. As the guests are nodding, I will take that as a yes.

On a general issue, I reiterate what we heard earlier. Four of today's contributors referred to multi-annual budgets as well as the issues of child care and transport. Networking and partnership approaches were also mentioned. If additional funding was made available from the Department of Education and Science or through the VECs, which of these would our guests prioritise? If money was available, which, in the context of funding, would be the single or top two most important aspects in terms of enabling people living in isolated areas, those from ethnic minorities or members of the Traveller community to access services?

I will address my other question specifically to Ms McGrath. It is an interesting matter and I will try to follow up on it. It is the first report I have seen regarding literacy and health and I am interested in the practical applications. There was a pilot study done within this area and a paper has been produced by the delegation. How could this be applied to the agencies involved in rolling out literacy programmes? I am aware that the delegation is referring to a policy statement for occupational therapists but should a policy on health and literacy also be supplied to all agencies? Has a submission to this effect been made to the Department of Education and Science and has there been a response?

Besides the matter of regional development workers in the Gaeltacht, are there other examples of White Paper recommendations being accepted by the Government but not followed up? What sort of wake-up call should the Minister have?

Senator Minihan

I welcome the delegation and thank it for its presentation. As we have spoken to others this morning, some questions overlap. I will refer to some specifics. I wish to develop an understanding of people operating in the Gaeltacht. It was lovely to hear the fluent Irish, though I hope the hurlers from that county will not be as fluent on Sunday. While people in Gaeltacht areas need basic literacy skills in Irish, what about English? Is there an overlap in this area or are two different agencies at work? How are we dealing with non-nationals, who represent the new challenge for all of us? Are we integrating them through Irish or English and how is it working? I am interested in how the delegation proposes to meet that challenge.

While there is no capital budget, are there costings? I understand that in many cases existing facilities are utilised but there are areas in which existing facilities are not available. On the other hand, we cannot have a major capital programme for predesignated literacy facilities for adult education across all regions. Has this been examined and are there certain black spots, or is this a general request for a capital programme?

Reference was made to paid leave to improve literacy skills for people in employment. I have come across people in my employment who could camouflage and hide their lack of literacy skills. They may have very good numeracy skills, yet when one tries to advance them through courses, they shy away. I was shocked to discover the reason for this. I understand the need for this, yet there would be resistance from employers. I wonder if it is possible for major employers to run in-house courses in conjunction with the bodies represented here. This might be more acceptable to the employers, rather than giving people release from employment.

There was a low level of education among certain members of the Defence Forces in the late 1970s and early 1980s and in-house educational programmes were run. I cannot recall the name of the course but it brought people to a certain level of numeracy and literacy from where they could progress to junior certificate or intermediate certificate and further education if needed. It was run in-house, as distinct from releasing employees to a course, and worked very well. Has this been considered as a pilot scheme with major employers in the area?

Senator Tuffy

I thank the delegation for the presentation and wish to ask questions of Ms Nóirín Ní Ghrádaigh. I cannot speak Irish even though I studied it to leaving certificate level, and that is common. I am not literate in Irish. Does the delegation deal with people in Gaeltacht areas who are literate in English but not Irish? Is that part of its brief?

When reading my local newspaper today I saw a gaelscoil had opened and some non-national children were attending. That appears to be common. Does that also need to be dealt with as perhaps their parents would have difficulties with both English and Irish? Do we provide programmes for them? Do we need more resources? The need for special resources for non-nationals was already discussed today.

Deputy Gogarty mentioned multi-annual funding which the delegation specifically included in its list of three issues. That problem arises in many areas. Groups are expected to run their services on a year-to-year basis even though they are supposed to have a strategic approach. The delegation stated that last year it received €160,000 and that it has been offered a similar amount this year but it has not been updated yet. I thought more than €160,000 would be necessary to cover basic costs due to inflation.

The delegation mentioned contract workers. How were they funded? Was it through funding provided along the way or through different funding? Did the amount of €160,000 cover the delivery of services?

Is there much scope for volunteers in the area of literacy in Irish? Is the number of volunteers in Gaeltacht areas similar to or less than that in the rest of the country?

Vice Chairman

Ms McGrath's presentation on discussing an indirect approach to involve people in literacy was interesting. Others also referred to this. Dúirt Neasa gur cheart an teideal "literacy" a athrú, and I would like a further comment on this.

We will start with Ms Greene.

Ms Greene

Deputy English asked about different approaches. There is no single answer as it depends on examining the needs of a specific target group and what the barriers are to that group. We deal differently with St. Joseph's Training Centre which works with Travellers and a group of young mothers doing a family learning course.

Deputy English

Different areas have different solutions.

Ms Greene

With regard to mobile units, we are still seeking funding. We examined a couple of models which would combine computer classes with literacy classes in rural areas. The mobile unit would have six laptops in the van and space to hold literacy classes and would travel to extremely remote areas.

Deputy English

Are mobile units the answer to the lack of facilities in some areas? We discussed capital spending. Should we have more mobile units?

Ms Greene

It is a possibility. The difficulty with capital expenditure is that for instance in County Clare some of the adult education centres where we run literacy classes are not great but in some areas if designated literacy centres were established people would not come because it would be targeted. It must be general adult education or community centres. It needs a broader view than merely adult literacy centres.

Workplace literacy initiatives to develop workplace literacy and learning is a new catchphrase. However, if one sets up a programme within an organisation or a business and states that it is about workplace literacy, nobody will attend. One must use a themed or paced approach to draw in people. Workplace employee development and basic education have been in operation in the United States for a number of years. The Ford company was one of the first to take it on, approximately 20 years ago. Initially, it wanted staff to undertake courses that were only related to the business, for example health and safety or following new work practices. Gradually, however, it broadened the scope of employee development and allowed members of staff to take on any course of interest to them. The company discovered that the impact on work performance was just as good if staff did a course on learning to play chess or bridge or to fish as it was when they did a course aimed specifically at the workplace. The reason for this was that the act of learning improved their perception of themselves and improved their self-confidence. In this context, the notion that the long way around is sometimes the shortest way home makes sense. This has worked within the area of literacy and we would like to see that type of flexibility remain.

We are a little concerned at the emerging signals that the FETAC accreditation for very low levels is the way forward. We would be cautious about that approach because we believe the variety of classes, the short taster sessions and the "bring a friend to class" approaches have been hugely successful. The social change modules are popular and the driver theory classes are constantly booked out. There is always a waiting list for the latter classes. A considerable number of people come back to do other courses, having initially done the driver theory class. That class is a great draw for young people, who all want to get their driving licences. We have found that once they have made that initial step, they frequently come back for more. The same is true of family learning and some of the computer classes. Our plea is to maintain flexibility within the system.

Neasa de Bhailis

Chuir Deputy English ceist faoi cén chaoi ar feidir misneach a thabhairt do dhaoine teacht isteach, nó cén fáth go dtagann daoine isteach. Luaigh sé tuismitheoirí ag teacht isteach mar gheall nach bhfuil siad in ann cabhrú lena gcuid gasúr, agus is fíor sin. Freisin, tá fáthanna eile i gceist, mar shampla, feirmeoir beag a fuair foirm nach bhfuil sé in ann a thuiscint. Bíonn siad ábalta Gaeilge nó Béarla a labhairt, ach níl siad in ann an fhoirm a thuiscint. Ó am go chéile bíonn deis ag daoine promotion a fháil agus níl siad in ann é sin a dhéanamh gan cúnamh uainne. Uaireanta, bíonn daoine ag iarraidh cúrsa a dhéanamh le feabhas a chuir ar a gcuid scileanna, agus níl siad in ann é a dhéanamh gan beagán tacaíochta uainne. Mar sin, ní féidir a rá go bhfuil aon chúis amháin go dtagann daoine. Tagann gach aois agus gach aicme daoine.

Deputy Gogarty

An bhfuil níos mó fear ná ban?

Neasa de Bhailis

Nuair a thosaigh mise ar dtús san obair seo, cheap mé go raibh níos mó ban ag teacht. Ceapaim anois go bhfuil sé cothrom. Tá na fir níos fearr ag teacht chun cinn anois, ach thóg sé tamaill ar an tseirbhís a theacht ar a cosa i gConamara. Buíochas le Dia, tá an líon céanna fear agus ban ag teacht. Go minic, tagann mná mar gheall go dteastaíonn siad cúnamh a thabhairt do na gasúir. Tagann siad le leabhar beag, mar shampla, Rí-Rá, agus deireann siad nach bhuil siad in ann léamh agus iarrann siad cúnamh. Tuigeann muid go bhfuil siad in ann leabhair mar sin a léamh ach go bhfuil rud éigin eile sa bhaile nach bhfhuil siad in ann déileáil leis. Tagann siad faoin gclúdach sin, ach de réir a chéile feicimid go bhfuil fadhbhanna níos doimhne ann.

Chuir Deputy Gogarty ceist faoi na leabhair Ghaeilge a bheith as dáta. Ní hé go bhfuil siad as dáta ar chor ar bith. Is é go bhfuil an leibhéal ró-dheacair do na foghlaimeoirí atá againne. Teastaíonn leibhéal níos simplí agus soléite, agus sin atá ar siúl ag Breacadh agus bíonn muidne ag cur comhairle ar Breacadh na riachtanais--

Deputy Gogarty

Gaeilge nádúrtha atá i gceist.

Neasa de Bhailis

Is ea, Gaeilge nádúrtha. Freisin, abairtí níos simplí atá i gceist. Go minic bíonn an Gaeilge a úsáidtear an-trom agus níl aon ghá leis. An rud céanna atá i gceist le NALA agus an Plain English Campaign. Go minic, is féidir an teachtaireacht a chur trasna go han-simplí agus ní gá a dhéanamh casta.

Chuir Senator Minihan ceist faoi overlap maidir le Gaeilge agus Béarla. I mo thaithí i nGaeltacht Chonamara tagann daoine le haghaidh na Gaeilge agus an Bhéarla. Bhí siad mall ar dtús ag teacht le haghaidh na Gaeilge mar, ón taithí a bhí acu ar chúrsaí litearthachta, chonacthas dóibh go raibh an Béarla níos simplí. Feiceann daoine i gConamara an leagan Gaeilge d'fhoirm agus é ag breathnú an-trom le focail an-mhóra. Léann siad an leagan Béarla le déanamh cinnte go dtuigeann siad é agus ansin líonann siad isteach an leagan Gaeilge. Tarlaíonn sin go minic i mo thaithí. Bíonn rogha ag duine a thagann chuig an tseirbhís atá againne ranganna litearthachta a fháil trí Ghaeilge nó trí Bhéarla. Molfaimid cloí le ceann amháin ag an am mar go bhfuil sé an iomarca d'ualach an dá rud a dhéanamh ag an am céanna. Roghnaíonn siad Béarla nó Gaeilge ag brath ar a gcuid riachtanas pearsanta. Ansin, bíonn rogha acu dul ar aghaidh leis an gceann eile níos déanaí nuair a bhíonn níos mó muiníne acu sa chéad cheann.

Maidir leis na non-nationals, i mo thaithí níl aon non-national i gConamara ag teacht faoi láthair. Tá siad ag freastal ar ranganna i gcathair na Gaillimhe le Conradh na Gaeilge agus tá ag éirí go hiontach leo. Bhí cuid acu ar an "Late Late Show" anuraidh agus an-Ghaeilge acu. Tá an tseirbhís ar fáil dóibh i gConamara i nGaeilge nó i mBéarla.

Níl mé in ann mo mhéar a chur ar aon tseirbhís amháin thar cheann eile a dteastaíonn níos mó airgid. Is fiú an t-airgead a chur isteach ar chuile phíosa agus an t-airgead a roinnt sa tslí sin. Ní bheadh sé féaráilte aon dream a fhágáil amach.

Deputy Gogarty

An bhfuil sé ró-dheacair don Aire airgead a thabhairt gan aon indication——

Neasa de Bhailis

An é atá i gceist ná an bhfuil sé ró-dheacair don Aire airgead a chur ar fáil gan tuairim a thabhairt faoi prioritisation?

Deputy Gogarty

Is ea.

Neasa de Bhailis

An rud is mó ná nach féidir an tseirbhís a chur ar fáil gan teagascóirí agus dá mbeadh orm béim a chur ar ghné amháin, chuirfeadh mé béim ar íocaíocht do theagascóirí agus níos mó teagascóirí íoctha a bheith ann le gur féidir linn treisiú leis an tseirbhís.

Ms Gallagher

I would like to add to the point on priorities, two of which, as Neasa de Bhailis noted, would involve more intensive tuition costs and increased support costs. Support costs include transport, child care, financial incentives to attend classes, psychological assessments and specialised assessments for people with learning difficulties. There is a range of supports available. Each VEC receives a budget for support costs and would have to use it at its discretion. I am not talking about not being accountable for it, but merely stating that we would use it at our discretion because every person and group of people is different. Intensive tuition is also a factor.

Deputy English inquired about the greatest barriers. There are practical barriers but people also have huge psychological barriers. People think education is not for them. That means one must be creative when promoting the service. We use the media, flyers and churches but the best way is one-to-one contact with people. We ask people if they would like to come to a class or if they know anyone who would like to attend. It works through word of mouth. This is labour-intensive and requires staff who are trained and who understand the importance of what is involved. It is just as important to know how to greet someone in a corridor as it is to sit down with them. It is extraordinary what puts people off coming to a class. If someone looks sideways at them when they come through a door, they think it is not for them and they leave. It is important to train people in that regard.

I am not surprised that Senator Minihan is confused about who has responsibility for Irish and for asylum seekers and refugees. The VEC has responsibility for the provision rate. When the number of asylum seekers and refugees started to increase, it was put under the literacy service, although it is more of a language than a literacy issue. We sometimes teach English language classes to people with literacy difficulties. There is also the Irish issue. Sometimes people have a literacy difficulty in Irish or English or both. We have responsibility for the provision rate across the board.

As regards capital budgets, while I cannot say we have costed the capital expenditure we would require, we in County Donegal are lucky in that six old schools have gradually come on stream and are now serving as adult education centres. A large proportion of the literacy budget is ESF funded. We cannot spend it on anything other than the specifics. Capital expenditure is not one of the things on which one can spend the budget. It is difficult to carry out normal maintenance. As many VECs are not in a position to have adult education centres, they must rely on renting premises. It is a shame to spend a great deal of money on rent instead of refurbishing a building.

A question was asked about workplace learning and in-house courses. We have done that in some cases in the hotel industry in County Donegal. Employers need to see a real benefit in allowing people to have time off for class within the workplace. The Skillsnet programme, which was run through IBEC, originated in Donegal and has been successful. However, it is from FETAC level five upwards. It is now recognised that there is a need for people with lower levels of literacy. There must be discussion at national level to encourage employers to take this on because it will have a real benefit. That discussion needs to take place nationally in order that we can implement it at local level.

Ms McGrath

A number of complex questions were asked. As I am a front-line staff member, some of them are beyond my remit and knowledge.

The key tenets of the current national health strategy are quality, accountability, people centredness and equity. In that context, health care professionals must address literacy levels in health care settings. It identifies that health care professionals could be key players in enhancing people's health literacy and their awareness of their responsibility for their own health.

In many cases, for example, the current standard of literature in letters sent out for appointments does not provide for equality of access. This disparate impact of a neutral standard, as it is called, means that people who cannot read or write are disenfranchised by complex letters. Yesterday I attended a meeting in James Connolly Memorial Hospital. Within feet of the radiology department two people stopped me separately and asked me where the X-ray department was. That is the sort of thing I encounter. They were wandering around trying to find the X-ray room when the sign said "radiology", which did not make sense to them. Nobody had told them to look for the radiology sign. In many cases, simple things like that can be frustrating and upsetting for people who cannot negotiate their way through the health service and do not know where to go.

NALA, the National Adult Literacy Agency, has developed a health literacy pack for tutors and health professionals. The Northern Area Health Promotion Service is involved in several initiatives. My colleague, Ms Angela King, will address the joint committee tomorrow about this.

As regards the practical applications, my colleagues Ms Mary Whelan, Ms Denise Prouse and I have come up with a model that works in helping people to understand how their bodies work and how they can mind them. That model concerned a specific aspect of health but I imagine that the findings are transferable to other aspects of health.

People responsible for sending out material by post should take literacy proofing on board. At one stage, I worked in Ballymun where I had a 50% "did not attend" rate on my initial assessments. When I started contacting people by telephone, explaining who I was and where they should come to attend, the attendance rate rose to 80%.

The important thing about our model is that clients are informing practice. It is a client-led initiative whereby they are teaching us how to teach and how to impart knowledge in a way that is accessible and useful for them. It can be modified for other environments. We have developed a training pack for use by others. Currently, it is the womens' bodies: womens' minds project, which is an all-in-one pack for trainers to use in running the course. We run that course for 16 people who are now running the course in other settings, such as vocational training centres. No matter where it is being run, we are finding the same levels of knowledge. People are severely challenged in understanding how to be healthy.

From our perspective it is indirect but it is of personal relevance to the people with whom we are dealing. We have already captured their interest and because they are in a health service, perhaps presenting with a health problem, they want to know and understand more about their own health. They have, therefore, a certain degree of enthusiasm for understanding. I consider myself to have a good command of English but the metaphor I always use is that when transported to my holidays in Greece, I could not negotiate the train system and could not find my way around. The same situation faces people who are challenged, particularly by medical terms. A cancer patient will not necessarily understand that they are looking for the oncology department. Sometimes it can be very difficult for them to find where they need to go or where to make a call.

In my current post dealing with the psychiatry of old age, I spend a great deal of time assisting elders who grew up in a time when one did not need to read, write or use maths. They are challenged by filling out forms and using phone directories. I have also had to teach people how to use the Luas and get off at the right stop. That is the level of difficulty facing some people.

In the health service there is a great deal of time pressure and it is labour intensive. We are grateful for the understanding of our managers who continue to release us to develop this project, and continue to run it. It is one concerned response coming from ground level. It is one option but there are plenty of others. Literacy skills are only as useful as the help they give one to negotiate one's lifestyle and get around. I was interested by earlier comments about reading the newspaper and getting taxis and buses, which is what literacy is concerned with. People who are challenged need as much information as possible in an accessible manner. Anyone who provides a service has responsibility for this.

Nóirín Ní Ghrádaigh

I will address Deputy Hoctor's questions. The Deputy asked if the Irish language receives more funding than its English counterpart. Ms Gallagher can clarify this but there is not a specific budget. Funding comes out of each VEC's budget for Irish language adult education and, therefore, it fights with VTI-VTOS, Youthreach and other programmes within the VECs. Our only dedicated budget amounts to €160,000 a year and comes through Breacadh. That is inadequate. Perhaps it would be useful to compare that with NALA's budget because Breacadh does similar work on the Irish language in so far as we are there to provide support in the form of materials and training in collaboration with the VECs, which direct our work. Our budget is only €160,000, while NALA's is more than €1 million. There is a difference in the number of people with whom we work but it is an indication. The two languages are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the State but that is how it is with Breacadh.

The Deputy also asked whether more materials are coming on stream as a result of Breacadh being on the ground. I listed in the submission what has been completed to date and that includes the adaptation of the County Donegal VEC tutor training course, which is accredited. We have trained 43 tutors nationwide through that course. We compile and publish Breacadh, a 20-page magazine. We are ready to issue our sixth edition, copies of which I will leave with the clerk. We also compile and publish Nuascríobh na Gaeilge, a manual to provide help and support to tutors. We also have a computer book based on FETAC’s foundation level and we are being asked to provide many more books based on FETAC courses at foundation level and levels one and two.

We were allowed to adopt the Clare family learning course through Irish. I will also leave a sample of the accompanying workbooks — available in the three main dialects — to the clerk. We have published a workbook in the Munster dialect and we have been asked to publish it in other dialects. We are working on word frequency research in the Irish language, a phonic scheme and so on. Plenty of new material is coming on stream but we are at the stage where we need assistance on the ground to initiate, co-ordinate and recruit participants for dedicated, integrated adult basic education courses, like VTOS or Youthreach, through Irish in the Gaeltacht.

Deputy English inquired about local funding. We received partial sponsorship from Údarás na Gaeltachta for the book, Nuascríobh na Gaeilge. Other local groups and partnerships subscribe to a number of our projects. We have asked for help from An Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Gaeltachta agus Tuaithe but it referred us back to the Department of Education and Science. While we are trying to gather what we can locally, we need a more substantial input directly from the Department to the project. If such funding comes via regional development officers to the VECs, as I believe it should, we will support the officers. If the officers are not working from the offices of Breacadh, the funding will be for the VECs rather than specifically for Breacadh. All such funding will be allocated in the interests of developing the Irish language literacy service but we also need additional funding of at least €80,000 for Breacadh for commissioning. Senator Tuffy asked me specifically about this issue, to which I will return.

I was also asked about the publicity given to Irish language services of this nature. I forgot to bring copies of the posters and flyers which we have created for publicity purposes. Breacadh was coerced into making the posters and flyers, which are modern and were much appreciated, bilingual. We will send copies of the material to the clerk.

Deputy Gogarty asked about the promise contained in the White Paper in respect of regional development officers. We did not get the funding we needed to appoint such officers. We received funding of £100,000 per annum for three years at the start of the project. I defer to Ms Crona Gallagher, who was one of those who initiated the project, in this regard. The funding we needed was not adequate to facilitate the appointment of regional development officers. The committee that was in place before I was appointed decided that it was in the interests of the project to appoint a national co-ordinator and to commission works such as those I have mentioned and we have discussed. When they were initially appointed, the regional development officers were asked to teach and co-ordinate integrated basic education programmes through Irish and to compile materials. It was probably not a very practical solution, given that teachers need to be able to create materials. When I was appointed as a co-ordinator, I had editorial experience. We have since recruited a junior editor. We are working specifically on materials.

It would be better to employ the regional development officers within the VECs and to ask Breacadh to support them and their needs as they do their work. Adult literacy organisers are using many materials in the absence of an integrated basic education programme. The White Paper stated that there is a need for development officers to work on such a programme but no programme accredited by VTOS, VTI or FETAC is available through the Irish language. The compilation of such a programme would be beyond the remit of the adult literacy organisers. Also, when the VTOS courses that are available within the Gaeltacht boundaries in places such as Connemara are availed of by the minority of English speakers in such areas, the lingua franca of English is often used for teaching purposes.

Senator Tuffy asked about literacy in the English and Irish languages. She also asked about the parents of children attending gaelscoileanna. Groups such as Conradh na Gaeilge and Comhluadar are addressing these issues in areas outside the Gaeltacht where gaelscoileanna are found. Comhluadar assists the parents of children attending gaelscoileanna who do not have any Irish. Conradh na Gaeilge and the local VECs organise night classes to help people to acquire the Irish language. The acquisition of the Irish language — sealbhú na Gaeilge — is different from the development of literacy skills among native Irish speakers. Such people need to be taught in a different way. Some of our literacy materials would be useful in a language acquisition class. We have always welcomed those who have asked to use our materials in any way they find useful.

The Breacadh project, however, is directed specifically towards native speakers. Irish language acquisition classes are offered by Conradh na Gaeilge and Comhluadar. Udarás na Gaeilge offers such classes to people who have moved to the Gaeltacht, for example, as a result of marrying a person living there, in order that they can learn to speak the language of the local area. Breacadh was specifically founded to cater for the literacy needs of native speakers. The adult education officers in the various Gaeltacht counties look after the needs of those who wish to learn Irish but that is not the case with the Breacadh project because Irish language acquisition courses are offered elsewhere.

With regard to multiannual funding, we find it difficult to engage or woo people who already have jobs. We need some notice to be able to offer someone a one or two year contract creating materials for us. A funding period of three or five years would greatly help us to plan strategically. At a minimum — I am sure this applies across the board — we need to know whom we can commission at the start of each year. It is already September but we still do not know if we will be allocated any funding other than a maintenance allowance. For this reason, we have not commissioned anything new in 2005.

I was asked what is being done in the office. The editor came in to edit the publications we have created but we have run out of material to edit. During the first two or three years, when we received £100,000, we commissioned plenty of works and employed an editor when these publications were ready for editing. She has since run out of work and now creates the FETAC accredited Bunús na Ríomhaireacht. She also produced a computer manual, NuaScríobh na Gaeilge. The current position is not ideal because instead of editing several books, as was the case during the first two or three years of the project, she is creating work, which takes much longer. Our output in the past year or two has, therefore, been significantly reduced.

A similar position applies with regard to my work. We completed a word frequency project with a computer analyst whom the editor and I provided with the data needed to create a programme. I am now editing the lists and we are doing considerable editorial work on our own creations. The reason the office has generated little new output in the past year or two is the absence of the €80,000 in funding for the Breacadh project which we requested last year and this year. If approved now, we hope we will be allowed to carry over this funding as it would be difficult to use it before the end of the year.

On Senator Tuffy's question about the scope to use volunteer tutors, some people have come forward to work as Irish language tutors. It appears that the introduction of standardised Irish in, I believe, 1975 is the reason far fewer people feel sufficiently confident in Irish to come forward and offer their services as a tutor. Although some did come forward, they told us they did not have full confidence in their ability to put fleiscíní or a séimhiú in the right place, which is the reason we produced the NuaScríobh na Gaeilge manual. Having assessed the candidates, we considered them adequate to do the job but also concluded that we needed to take certain steps in the area of new standardised Irish to give them more confidence as tutors. Every time we speak to a group within our range we find that they all have needs. For this reason, we have tutor and learner books and study skills and family learning guides. As I stated, we now need regional workers on the ground to use these materials. We also need more money to produce more materials because our output has almost come to a standstill.

Sitting suspended at 3.10 p.m. and resumed at 3.35 p.m.

Vice Chairman

I extend a warm welcome to the representatives of the Adult Literacy Organisers' Association, the Adult Education Officers' Association, the Irish Vocational Education Association, County Louth VEC and County Wicklow VEC. The first part of this session will consist of five-minute presentations by each of the organisations. I ask the representatives to stick to the five-minute time limit because of the number of presentations this afternoon. After the presentations we will have a question and answer session. I am sure the members will have many questions.

I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this same privilege does not apply to those appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I call on Ms Mary Hession who is to make a presentation on behalf of the Adult Literacy Organisers' Association.

Ms Mary Hession

The Adult Literacy Organisers' Association is a membership organisation of part-time and full-time literacy organisers who work for VECs, and also one or two who work for SIPTU. We work according to a cascade system whereby information from regional meetings is fed into the executive, which in turn interfaces with various other fora, such as NALA, IVEA and the Department of Education and Science. Information from the executive feeds back to the regions. This means we believe we know a great deal about what is happening regarding literacy in the country.

The Department of Education and Science and NALA both have very clear definitions of what they mean by literacy. We define literacy in terms of our clients, who present and say they cannot read the letter from the Department of Social and Family Affairs, cannot help their children with their homework or do not have the language skills to deal with the immigration people, for example. We must, therefore, prioritise people with the lowest levels of literacy, that is, those with poor skills in numeracy, literacy and IT. We support those with low language and oral skills and people who have never had the opportunity to get a qualification. We support them in attaining FETAC qualifications at levels 1, 2 and 3.

We also support clients in other strands of adult education in order that they can achieve in VTOS, Youthreach or community strands of education. To do so, we must be able to provide more than an average of four hours per week per client. We currently offer accredited and non-accredited one-to-one provision in English and Irish. We provide small group language literacy courses, accredited and non-accredited, in English and Irish also.

We are in partnership in projects, with the local authorities, for instance, in some cases with the hospitals and with FÁS, where we provide workplace learning. We give language and literacy classes to EU and non-EU nationals. To provide this programme we need premises that are suitable and respectful of adult learners. Our staff, both paid group tutors and unpaid voluntary teachers, are all trained. We train them before they begin and they are all involved in ongoing in-service training. However, we do not yet have dedicated full-time literacy tutors as we believe we ought to have.

We employ a number of innovative approaches in teaching literacy. For instance, we run family learning programmes where we go into national schools, usually senior infants or first class, and work with the parents of children in those classes. We help them to read with their children. The children are brought in and we read with them and the books are sent home. This means we are introducing books into the homes of some of the most needy families in the country. We teach committee skills so that people may become involved in their communities in order to enhance the social capital. We teach computer skills, not to ECDL level, but basically showing people how to turn on a computer. Anybody who cannot use a computer really is not literate in 2005.

There are also programmes where we integrate literacy with practical subjects. For instance, we have taught literacy with car mechanics, cooking and dressmaking. This means using the practical element to attract learners, then keeping them and teaching them the language skills they need to use and can apply in other areas. To continue with that, funding is needed to develop the programme as well as additional moneys so that when it is proven to be successful it may be run.

As literacy organisers we are working to eliminate barriers to participation. In order to do that work we need support services such as child care, care of the elderly and transport for people who live in inaccessible parts of the country. We need access to educational guidance and psychological services as and when required and there should be designated funding for the diagnosis of specific learning disabilities. The budget provides for both the organiser's salary and the provision of literacy services at present. We believe, however, there should be a pay and non-pay element.

Vice Chairman

I welcome Ms Gay Hogan, representing the Adult Education Officers' Association.

Ms Gay Hogan

I thank the committee for the opportunity to contribute to the consultative process and the debate on how to tackle the literacy needs of adults in Ireland. I make the presentation as president of the VECs' Adult Education Officers' Association. There are 50 AEOs in Ireland and they are based in the VECs. Initially, I draw attention to the context in which literacy in basic education is placed within the VEC adult education services countrywide. I refer to the second page of the document before the committee, which is an organisation chart. I will not go into detail about it but can answer questions subsequently.

The literacy service works in partnership with VEC adult education colleagues, organising and delivering a range of programmes and initiatives in each service area. The adult literacy organisers are members of a service team striving to provide an integrated and cohesive response to second-chance initiatives funded by the Department of Education and Science. Adult literacy and basic education is provided by the VEC adult education services through literacy schemes, senior Traveller training centres, Youthreach and in partnership with VTOS and community education programmes, as mentioned by my colleague. This co-operative approach is reflected in the VEC's partnership relationship with local and regional agencies, groups and communities. This service team is usually led and managed by the adult education officer.

The list of issues that relate to literacy and basic education provision is as follows: the need for increased cohesion and integration of new initiatives nationally; a shortage of essential supports for the most disadvantaged students, that being good quality premises, child care and educational guidance; the importance of a systematic approach to the engagement of employers in workplace education and training; the commitment of Government to support and promote the VEC sector, the largest and most experienced provider of adult literacy and basic education; the lack of a professional career structure for adult education tutors. We make three recommendations on addressing those issues. First is the establishment of a coherent staffing structure in the VEC adult education services. The aims of this recommendation are to ensure that career professionals will be able to work from a secure employment structure, to establish the basis for an effective quality service to meet the increasing challenges of the European Union lifelong learning agenda and to build on the growth of a multi-disciplinary staff team to tackle the issues of second-chance education in a cohesive way. I am bold enough to suggest what action should be taken. We should plan for an adequate pay budget based on a comprehensive cost analysis that reflects the expertise and diversity of this service team for the future development of quality literacy services.

Our second recommendation is that the new national development plan should build on the work already done by providing further support for literacy provision. The aims are to build on the work achieved during the life of the National Development Plan 2000-2006; to strengthen the VEC sector as the leading provider of adult literacy and basic education; to provide continuity in the initiatives which are achieving results and to offer an opportunity further to develop national policies. I hope this is the forum in which we can influence decisions on workplace learning with employers and create more time to research and improve on the successful and effective supports that enable adults with weak skills to access learning opportunities. What we are seeking is that the Government should sustain and increase the investment in adult literacy and second-chance education in the new national development plan.

Our third recommendation is that the Government should enable the growth of the integrated partnership work practice model at all levels of planning and consultation. With partnership planning, we can provide best value when funding initiatives. We can foster a cohesive and effective approach to planning, ensure an integrated approach by all stakeholders to learning provision and strengthen the links between educators and employers. To achieve this we are seeking that the Government should provide the budget to employ key workers to increase and develop the existing local and regional fora, ensuring co-ordinated planning for adult education by establishing the local adult learning boards with the supporting adult education officers as planned in the White Paper of 2000.

The second recommendation is to increase the interface between Departments at national level to facilitate more collaborative initiatives. The third recommendation, which is much more specific, is to integrate regional education and training information services into the regional offices of the Department of Education and Science to provide comprehensive information from all providers.

Ms Mary Bohan

I thank the joint committee for giving the Irish Vocational Education Association, IVEA, the opportunity to make this submission. I am conscious that much of what we say will be repetitive but the IVEA is a big family, representing 33 VECs throughout the country. We say the same thing in different ways, as one would expect any big family to do.

VECs provide a diverse range of educational services to their local communities. The adult literacy service is a core component of VEC services. VECs are responsible for over 90% of adult literacy provision in Ireland, catering for those who, for example, have poor reading, writing, English and Irish language or numeracy skills, need to improve their skills to help children with homework, or wish to learn basic computer skills or gain a basic qualification at FETAC levels 1, 2 and 3 and junior certificate.

At national level, IVEA plays a pivotal negotiating role in the area of adult literacy, engaging with the Department of Education and Science and trade unions to agree conditions of employment in the context of adult literacy, while developing national agreements with key agencies such as FÁS, the local authority national partnership advisory group and Skillnets to facilitate the provision of adult basic education in the workplace. In this regard, IVEA supports the strategic development of VEC adult literacy services.

Some issues of concern arise for IVEA with regard to adult literacy. The role of VECs in providing adult literacy services is considerable. In 2004 VECs provided literacy services to 34,000 learners. Therefore, VECs must be supported in their efforts to professionalise the adult literacy services they provide and IVEA must be resourced to empower VECs to continue to provide educational services of the highest standards. It is this issue that is emphasised in the following points.

The most important point concerns funding. The role of the VECs is of paramount importance when considering adult literacy provision in Ireland. They have the skills, the competence and the capacity to deliver the highest standards and to the largest numbers — an important point. However, the present adult literacy and community education budget as well as the adult literacy development fund is administered to VECs based on out-of-date criteria that take no account of population increases and decreases, and corresponding altered demands in particular areas. Many VECs are struggling to cope with the volume of referrals from other agencies in this education area. IVEA, therefore, recommends the following. First, budgets for adult literacy should be reassessed to reflect current socio-demographic trends within Irish society and, second, the funding of adult literacy should be of high priority after completion of the current national development plan.

My next point relates to staffing. The VEC literacy service is managed by the adult literacy organiser, ALO, who reports to the adult education officer, AEO, who in turn reports to the chief executive officer of each VEC. Since the appointment of AEOs and ALOs, their roles have changed to a considerable degree. This was recognised to some extent in 2004 when both the IVEA and the Department of Education and Science agreed that the title "adult education organiser" should be changed to "adult education officer" to reflect more accurately their changed role and increased responsibilities. However, the process needs to go beyond nomenclature. In this regard, IVEA plays an important role in assisting its member VECs in the co-ordination and expansion of adult literacy, a support that includes policy development and raising public awareness of this vital area of VEC educational provision.

The IVEA recommends that the roles of adult education officers, AEOs, and adult literacy organisers, ALOs, be reviewed to take into account the changed profile and increased responsibilities of both since their inception. It also recommends the adoption of quality assurance levels for individuals and groups involved in the delivery of adult literacy programmes, as well as the provision of enhanced staffing at the IVEA to support and assist its member VECs in management, co-ordination and training. This will also include policy development and advising the Department of Education and Science, as well as raising public awareness of adult literacy. This is an important point because the IVEA is a representative body which negotiates at national level on behalf of VECs in respect of literacy and the other programmes they deliver.

With regard to the curriculum, the provision of English for speakers of other languages, ESOL, is currently delivered through the adult literacy and community education budget. The ever-increasing demand from asylum seekers, refugees and other minority linguistic groups for English language provision is putting enormous strain on the VECs' already overstretched adult literacy and community education budget. Furthermore, literacy provision must be an integrated programme enabling people to gain skills that reflect and enrich their life circumstances. Hence numeracy must be given equal footing to reading and writing within literacy programmes. The IVEA recommends that additional funding should be ring-fenced for ESOL to provide enhanced supports for VECs to deliver the required level of ESOL provision as well as appropriate in-service and initial training for tutors and adult literacy managers. The IVEA also recommends that numeracy be afforded equal priority to literacy.

The VECs' adult literacy provision endeavours to be a wholly integrated programme. In order for this to be successfully achieved, a number of essential supports must be incorporated into the overall structure of the adult literacy services. Such supports would be a considerable addition to the professionalisation of the VECs' adult literacy provision. Within that context, the IVEA recommends that actions be taken in the following areas.

In respect of adult guidance, the IVEA recommends the adult education guidance initiative should be mainstreamed in all VECs as a matter of urgency. As far as specific learning difficulties are concerned, appropriate resources should be made available to provide enhanced supports for learners with specific learning difficulties such as dyslexia. In respect of accommodation, there are no capital budgets for adult literacy at present. The IVEA recommends that this anomaly be addressed as a matter of urgency to provide learners with comfortable premises that conform to health and safety requirements including caretaking and cleaning resources. The IVEA also recommends that child care and elder care facilities be provided to enable learners to participate in classes. As far as resources are concerned, enhanced budgets are required to provide books, teaching materials and other resources for VEC literacy tutors. With regard to transport, as literacy learners are generally from disadvantaged or low income backgrounds, it is often necessary to enable learning, particularly in isolated rural areas.

The IVEA believes that VEC adult literacy services must move away from being on the periphery of the education sector. In 1997, the international adult literacy survey, IALS, revealed that, on a scale of one to five, 25% of the Irish population scored at the lowest level, namely, level one, with a further 32% at level two. Statistics such as these demonstrate the need for a comprehensive adult literacy framework within our education system. The VECs, supported by the IVEA, can achieve this objective. They have the experience, expertise and ability to deliver the highest standards to the greatest number. However, the VECs must receive appropriate resources in terms of funding, staffing, accommodation, teaching resources, support facilities and services to accurately reflect its important position in the Irish educational landscape.

The IVEA strongly recommends that VECs be recognised for what they are, namely, the key providers of adult literacy services in Ireland. They are the agencies with the expertise, innovative ethos and ability to respond to local needs in an effective, cost efficient and, importantly, accountable manner.

Dr. Peter Connolly

I thank the Vice Chairman for the invitation and welcome. Adult literacy is not something new to County Louth VEC. We have been on the playing pitch since 1978 when we started with a system of voluntary tutors teaching on a one-to-one basis. The centres were mainly the students' homes. The matter of where we got the money from is another story which we will tell elsewhere.

The next main development was the ALCE budget, which came into being in 1986 and which helped us continue with our one-to-one work and teaching people in groups. Some people are very embarrassed if they have literacy problems but if they have a basic skill level in a group, they can reinforce one another. This is most helpful. The major development happened in 2000, when the VECs were able to employ adult literacy organisers. At that stage, the system took off.

The population in County Louth is approximately 102,000 and the 2002 census indicates that approximately 19,000 people do not possess formal educational qualifications or left school at primary level. We are throughputting, to use that horrible commercial term, 1,200 people per annum. Our numeracy experts indicate that at this rate, and if the population does not increase, it will take us 16.3 years to clear the backlog. If I may paraphrase a certain slogan, there is "a little done, more to do" with regard to the adult literacy service.

To give members a context in order that they can get a feel for numbers and money, last year's budget provided €222,000 for adult literacy, while community education received €210,000. There was a time when we had both together and a degree of flexibility. One could be worked into the other. However, the Department of Education and Science said in 2004 that if we wanted a change, we had to return to it and look for sanction. While it did not particularly affect us, it affected some VECs. However, we have good co-operation between our AEO, ALO and community education offices, so it was not necessarily a major problem.

It is always helpful to know what one is talking about. When it comes to adult education, there are two definitions that are current. There is the two-line definition used by the Department of Education and Science and the ten-line definition used by NALA. Obviously, these two definitions differ. The Department of Education and Science definition is very functional, strategic and measurable. The NALA definition uses the "how long is a piece of string?" approach and is more concerned with basics and lifelong learning. If, in terms of adult literacy, we are going to measure the bang for your buck or production, it will be useful to have clear definitions. We can change them as we proceed but we should at least start from that point.

County Louth VEC now has two ALOs, one of whom, Mary Hession, is present. We have 23 literacy tutors who are paid at a part-time rate and 73 voluntary literacy tutors. The voluntary tutors work on a one-to-one basis. Our success has resulted from the quality of the training we give our voluntary tutors. If it suits them, these individuals can become part-time tutors. We have no full-time tutors. I emphasise the debt of gratitude owed by County Louth VEC and the country to voluntary tutors who have given freely of their time. Some of them are in paid employment. They have used their spare time to help us and their fellow citizens. We have been remiss in terms of formally recognising voluntary tutors in County Louth. We hope we will do something to formally recognise them this year, which is the Year of the Volunteer.

When we commenced operations, the difficulty was that people wanted confidentiality. At that stage we were using students' homes. If one knew, for example, that "Tommy the Bike", was a literacy tutor and one saw him going to see someone, the game was up. Perhaps we went too far.

Something important we have learned during the years is to keep the system flexible because there are no standardised human beings. Policy statements that rigidly tie everything down do not work in terms of people and definitely do not work in terms of education. During the years we have had new client groups. One group that is increasing is what I call the special needs client group. These are people with educational difficulties, impairments or whatever one wishes to call them. To be honest, we are sometimes at a loss to know what to do in approaching this problem. We definitely need access to psychological supports and assessments for some people. I do not know what is the legal situation. Can one discriminate for or against people?

In County Louth, 17% of foreign nationals present for illiteracy. The Department of Education and Science has said that we should give them English language support but there is a variety of types among foreign nationals. For example, there are migrant workers. Where I live, we were delighted to see them. There are also refugees and the other category, namely, asylum seekers. Some of them will be long-term students, while others will only be with us in the short term. We need different strategies for each group. One group we have had dreadful trouble with is the Roma community. Their culture seems to be that they will not send their children to school because they do not trust teachers. We find it difficult to engage with them in any meaningful way with regards to one-to-one English learning. With the women, one has some hope. With Roma men, however, the position is completely impossible. In the event that there is any misunderstanding, the situation is different in Ireland. Another point is that we have kept up with best practice. We have family literacy and workplace literacy activities, namely, people who are in employment want to improve their skills or their employers want them to improve their skills. We are fortunate in County Louth that we have had the co-operation of the local authority but the private sector has also helped, which is welcome. Co-operation with others is detailed in the submission.

We have made a number of suggestions. It is not so much a wish list as a consideration list. For foreign nationals and people with special needs, clearer policy statements and the tagging of funds are required. Unfortunately, nothing can be done without funds. We have received very good co-operation from a variety of other State agencies. I am not sure whether we should distinguish between co-operation and participation. I am informed by my staff, however, that if 20% of the funding received by other agencies for the aspects of adult education and literacy with which they deal was given to the VECs, we could organise and manage it better. In such circumstances, there would be a contractual obligation between, for example, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the VECs.

Capital funding has been mentioned. There is a problem in this respect. Regarding the separation of budgetary lines, pay and non-pay, there is a growing tendency in public finance and education to get a budget. Full-time staff are put in place and proceed on incremental scales, while the amount of money for extra staff, heating and lighting decreases. This is not something I would like to see extended. It happens in the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland.

Regarding publicity, we are fortunate to be in the Border region. Channels such as UTV, BBC 1 and BBC 2 carry literacy encouragement. There is, therefore, a positive spin-off for us. Adult literacy is a problem that needs to be kept in front of the population from time to time.

Let us try not to create more problems. Many of these literacy problems should be solved at primary level. I am not sure what the solution is but prevention is better than cure.

Mr. Brian MacDiarmada

I thank the joint committee for the invitation to address it. I wish to provide some background on County Wicklow. The population exists mainly on the edges of the county and the central area is mountainous and sparsely populated. The total population is approximately 115,000. There are difficulties from an administrative point of view. We have six centres at the edges of the county as well as outreach locations.

The material provided shows the personnel that work in these centres and an outline of programmes. For many, this programme is the first step back into education to improve skills. One thinks of literacy skills as reading and writing but the range is wider than this. Basic maths, computers, the English language, personal development and confidence building are also included.

Our delivery mechanism is through one-to-one tuition and small groups and various accreditation options are available. Our delivery strategy has two channels, namely, the VEC organises direct tuition and also provides tuition in partnership with community groups which are listed in our visual presentation. The VEC provides tuition funding and follows up through the expert adult literacy officers, ALOs, and the tutors in the scheme.

Our current practice is one-to-one tuition. However, our staffing structure is very limited, apart from the ALOs. There is no official recognition of prior experience and qualifications. There is also an increase in the area of specific learning difficulties. A survey by NALA shows that 24% of literacy learners experience specific learning difficulties.

In our recommendations we advise that we need specific expertise for the people concerned. To cater adequately for our service we need additional personnel and staffing structures in order to give secure teaching hours to tutors. As another speaker indicated, the training of tutors is very specific and comprises an initial training programme and a follow-on programme. As soon as tutors find a better job, they move on because they feel there is no future for them in our programme. If we had a structure in place in that regard, it would be better for the service in general. Wider recognition should also be given to tutors' qualifications in relevant fields.

Family learning is very important and is working well in primary schools, where it is best carried out. It is part of the job of the VEC and the literacy programmes to encourage this but personnel in schools have a wider brief, of which literacy development is not part. It would be helpful if it was. Schools should be given more incentives to work with the literacy scheme. This would involve the appointment of further personnel.

The VEC provides for ongoing outreach services and promotion, as well as the "Read Write Now" programme and networking with agencies. There should be a sustained media campaign at national level in order that people are aware of it. This is an issue for some when their children are attending school and for others when they are getting married. There is a wide range but people will avail of it if it is available. Many may find it difficult to refer back to September when a campaign was ongoing. A sustained campaign is important.

It is important to have a co-ordinated approach between all relevant Departments, particularly those with which disadvantaged people have contact. Part of the induction of staff and their ongoing professional development should also include literacy awareness. Staff would then be able to actively support promotion while they work with us in partnership.

Expanding and strengthening referral services is also an important issue. Various groups are involved. In County Wicklow there is Action 17 of the county development board with which we are working. It is wider than reading and writing in that a broad range of confidence-building measures are also important. It would help if a group, including employers, came together to work on it. Extra support would be needed to achieve this.

As regards specific initiatives, we have learning centres throughout the county. We are talking of the provision of high quality services. The barriers are child care and transport. A special budget should be available for child care but we would need a trained cohort of childminders and a register should be provided which we could check. We would be able to pay for two or three hours in the evenings or the mornings or whatever the person would need. We also work with the rural transport initiative, which should be developed further.

Creative use of ICT would also help. Some students will have difficulty, regardless of what we do in terms of child care and transport. However, we could reach out through computers. We could have computer based learning and a helpline, which would mean that people would only have to come in once a month. However, we would need extra trained staff to do this.

Workplace literacy is another important aspect. We work with a few groups which we have listed in our submission. Awareness is needed at all levels in the organisation of employee needs. It also has major advantages for employers but we must work with them. The benefits for employers would be upskilling, preparation for change, increased confidence and morale and more active participation in the workplace. This is important because 25% of the adult population have difficulty with literacy, yet there is an unemployment rate of 4%. While we need the people concerned to enter the workplace, we would need a dedicated workplace co-ordinator. We recommend that grants or tax relief, which would recognise the fact that employers are helping and working with their employees to improve their basic skills, should be given. Many males avail of this service through workplace literacy, whereas adult education is usually accessed by females. This would be a better way to target males and get them interested.

The adult guidance service must be expanded and information officers must be provided. It is a psychological service because many come forward who need special assessment. The education psychological service would help in that regard. I apologise for rushing our submission but those are our recommendations.

Vice Chairman

I thank all the delegations for their presentations. The members of the committee may now ask questions.

Deputy Curran

I thank the delegations for their interesting presentations. We could ask questions all day on this subject. As my questions will be general, anyone can answer them. They are not based on what individuals have said but on what has been said collectively.

It was not until we examined the Louth experience that one of the comments in Ms MaryHession's statement made me wonder. She said that the VEC adult literacy service had initiated a number of projects in the past seven years and with a significantly increased budget. She talked about the growing budget in this area but at the same time we note that 17% of the services provided in County Louth are for non-nationals, includng foreign languages, etc. I do not want to break down that group any more for the moment but wish to consider that 17% figure. One can see that while the budget might be growing, public representatives realise the problems involved in dealing with non-nationals. They come to our offices and frequently we cannot speak to them even on the telephone because we cannot understand them, although we translate forms and help them to complete them. I wonder, however, among the delegates collectively, if there is an indication of what is involved. Has there been a quantitative analysis of the scale of the problem that we need to address? Has any individual or collective group undertaken such an analysis concerning non-nationals? When they come to this country, it takes them a long time to integrate and become aware of all the services available. I am wondering whether, rather than waiting for many of the people concerned to come to us, we have tried to assess their needs. Obviously, it is a problem that will arise in future, whether in the workforce or concerning children. I am curious, therefore, as to what level of quantitative analysis has been undertaken in that regard.

Ms Gay Hogan referred to the lack of career structures for full-time adult education tutors. We have full employment and people have a lot of choices. Is there a problem in getting tutors, given that there is not such a career structure in place?

Ms Hogan also mentioned recommendation No. 2 which seeks to provide for continuity in initiatives that are achieving results. That is a good and interesting point with which I agree. The other side of the coin, however, is how one analyses the initiatives providing results. Are the initiatives not providing results being dropped or amended? I presume there is ongoing streamlining. The recommendation jumped out at me in so far as I thought, "That is all very well but, at the same time, are you doing something else?"

My last question applies to all the delegates before the committee. They have seen the schedule of people appearing before it today and tomorrow, and all the interested parties involved which provide various services. The 20% figure being provided for the VECs was mentioned but it made me ponder whether there could be better overall co-ordination in providing adult education services, including adult literary services. Could these services be pulled together more tightly? None of the delegates said it as bluntly as that, but it was the impression I got having listened to some of the comments made.

Deputy Crowe

I welcome all the delegates to the committee. I have a couple of broad questions to pose, with some specific ones. In the literature I have received I note that a figure of 25% is mentioned, which is based on the international adult literacy survey published in 1987. That survey measured literacy on five levels. The figure is also 25% in the North, despite the different education systems involved. Is there any cross-Border co-operation, including the sharing and pooling of information on what systems are or are not working? I am conscious that some people present represent Border areas. Is there such co-operation between the groups represented here and others, particularly in the North? The man from County Louth talked about UTV and the BBC, but is there any co-operation between those working on the ground?

In 1997 the secondary school drop-out rate was approximately 20%. It remained at that level in 2002. Arising from this, some 24% of adults have literacy problems. A report published by one of the Dublin VECs stated where one lived dictated how long one stayed in school. I do not know whether the representatives are familiar with the report which confirms what we know but how can that cycle be broken? That is a major question to answer in only five minutes. Education is the key to literacy. The next step is to attract adults back to education. When they return, is the problem retaining them in the system, or are there other barriers within it? How can they be retained? Ms Hession referred to barriers such as child care, elder care and finance. Are there other structural barriers? The cutback in the back to education allowance was a debacle because the structure of the scheme was changed. This affected people who were gearing themselves up to return to education. What is Ms Hession's experience?

Are services duplicated, given the numerous groups involved in this sector? I accept that school transport presents a difficulty. Will the changes announced by the Department affect her group? Reference was made to employers such as South Dublin County Council. Have efforts been made to get businesses which need to train workers to sponsor literacy training programmes? This is working in the SDCC area in which people, particularly those from the Traveller community, have gained employment. The difficulties faced by people from a Roma background were raised. Did Travellers not face the same difficulties a few years ago? Major strides have been made in this area in which difficulties can be addressed if structures are put in place.

Many groups have stated the issue of adult literacy is not only about money but money helps. Does Ms Hession agree that adult literacy services have always been the poor relation in the education system? Substantial increases in funding have been achieved in recent years to the Department but a significant number still lack basic literacy skills and they have not been introduced to education. Should funding be targeted at training people in order that they can work — I am conscious of the number of volunteers who work in this area — or should it be targeted at unemployment black spots which experience significant literacy problems? Should mentors in these communities be targeted? Nobody referred to the importance of mentors, particularly for young people, many of whom are women. This has been a success story.

Senator U. Burke

I welcome the delegations. A total of 34,000 people avail of adult education services provided by VECs, with which many literacy groups are involved in partnerships. Various figures have been mentioned. For example, 25% of the people concerned have severe literacy problems. Some 1,200 people have literacy problems in County Louth, while the number for County Wicklow is approximately 1,500. There is probably a sizeable group not yet identified as being in serious difficulty, the majority of whom may be in the workplace, given that the current unemployment rate stands at only 4% to 5%. Can the VECs or partnership organisations alert employers to the problem? Employers, never more so than in current times, are often reluctant to release employees. I recently became aware of a young man, an excellent worker, who, having been identified as having promotional prospects within a particular company, was denied the opportunity to improve his skills. He was, in fact, given Hobson's choice and told to return to work or other resilient people would be employed in his place. There is, therefore, much to be done in encouraging employers. Until there is goodwill on their part, reports on all the good work being done by the VECs and partnership groups will fall on deaf ears and the level of participation will not be as great as it should be.

The presentation from County Wicklow Vocational Education Committee points the finger for many literacy problems at our system of primary education. We must try to address the needs of those experiencing difficulties at primary level; otherwise they may end up as drop-outs later in life. Perhaps the delegation will say if there is the determination to encourage employers to create an environment which assists those in need. While it will be expensive, we must find a way to assist employees.

Deputy Enright

I welcome the delegation. I have two specific questions and a couple of general ones. My first question relates to the presentation from Ms Mary Hession which mentioned the need for designated funding for the diagnosis of specific learning disabilities. I would be interested to hear who would carry out such a diagnosis. Would it be done by, say, a national education psychological service for adults, or would VEC trainers undertake the task? What level of training would volunteers be required to undertake, given that a person working in the field of diagnostics must be highly qualified?

Ms Hogan stressed the need for cohesion and the integration of new initiatives nationally and spoke of the interface between Departments at national level to facilitate collaborative initiatives. Many other delegations which have come before the joint committee have also stated their belief that there is a lack of cohesion in this area in that Department X often does not know what Department Y is doing, resulting in significant effects on the ground. Can Ms Hogan tell the committee what Departments, other than the Department of Education and Science, deal with the issue of adult literacy? I am aware of the role played by ADM, an agency established by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, in this regard. Is a lack of cohesion causing serious difficulties in getting the job done? Is a lack of cohesion among the various organisations involved also causing difficulties?

Ms Bohan referred to the professionalisation of the service. Is what I have just spoken about affecting the organisations' ability in this regard? How are ratios such as, for example, 34,000 students versus the number of volunteers or staff available to assist them, worked out? On average, what is the time offered by volunteers, given that many of them may be in full-time employment? Obviously, the number of volunteers needed would be greater than the number of full-time staff required. Are our guests in a position to provide any figures?

Accommodation and the lack of capital budgets were also mentioned this morning. I did not get the opportunity to ask about the use of schools. Does their use make it difficult for adults who previously had a bad educational experience or discourage them from taking literacy classes? In terms of the international adult literacy survey, how do we compare with other countries? Are we way below the average?

Do foreign nationals or non-nationals seek the literacy service when they come here? Would it be better to have an English language support agency that would be in charge of teaching English to them? The service provided is very different from what they require as it concerns the teaching of literacy rather than the teaching of a new language, although some of them may have literacy problems in their own language.

Dr. Connolly made a point about UTV and the BBC but did not go into the matter in depth. Does RTE provide this service also? It provides some service but do UTV and the BBC provide a better service in terms of literacy programmes? Is RTE falling behind and should it do more?

Are statistics available regarding the number of students on Youthreach programmes who have literacy problems? Are the numbers large? Although Youthreach is still only a pilot project — after 18 years — has it had an effect? People who worked in Youthreach have said to me that working on the programme affects their employment status and income. Does the fact that it is not a definite scheme affect delivery of its service?

Vice Chairman

I have a few specific questions. Several people have mentioned that we are not just talking about literacy but also numeracy and IT skills. Should our recommendations be broader and incorporate these basic skills?

Dr. Connolly gave us a budget breakdown specific to his VEC under which there was a separate heading for literacy and another for general community or adult education. Ms Hession spoke about teaching literacy with cooking or carpentry. Is there a difficulty with budgets where VECs try to use these methods and combine the teaching of literacy with something else? Can they juggle and mix their budgets or is this a problem? The issue arose earlier. It seems that combining literacy with another subject is a good way to involve people who might not come forward and volunteer for a literacy class.

As we are short of time, delegates should not each answer all of the questions. Many of the questions are very general. We will start with Ms Hession and I ask that delegates try to restrict their replies to approximately four minutes.

Ms Hession

The first question concerned the percentage of ESOL learners and how it affected our budget. We are prohibited from providing asylum seekers with anything more than mother culture and language. For various reasons, this means we have a large pool of people — particularly in Dundalk, where we have an accommodation centre — who come to us for language help and that is all we can give them. We also have non-nationals, guest workers who want a different type of training. They want language that will help them get work.

To return to the issue of integrating literacy, we can integrate literacy with health and safety. I dread to think of the number of people working on building sites who cannot read health and safety signs, who do not know how to wear their safety hats or who are not properly insured. This is a concern.

To answer Deputy Enright's question, it is logical that VECs should be the providers of English language classes. We probably need more support than we are getting but it is logical that we should provide the service because we are based throughout the country. If there is a specific English language section, its services will not be provided in certain areas. Should I answer all questions?

Vice Chairman

No. Perhaps Ms Hession could allow other delegates to answer other questions. She should answer only those she specifically wants to address.

Ms Hession

I particularly want to answer Deputy Enright's question concerning diagnosing specific learning disability. The current thinking is that it is probably not necessary for adults to undergo psychological assessments. What is necessary is to diagnose the particular type of dyslexia the client has. That resource is probably needed in every county. I am aware that NEPS is considerably overextended. VECs locally should be able to access diagnosis for specific learning disabilities.

Volunteers are not in any way amateur and we need to get away from that feeling. Volunteers in the VECs with which I have dealings are well trained.

Ms Hogan

I might move between topics. Deputy Crowe asked whether we co-operated with Northern Ireland. This links with television coverage coming from Northern Ireland and how it impacts on us. He has asked whether we can learn from this. During the years there has been considerable support from Northern Ireland when they were somewhat ahead of the services here. However, there has been a very big catch-up in the past five or six years. Models of working are being developed through the UK basic skills service that are always interesting and useful. The same is true of developments abroad in Canada, Belgium, Finland and Sweden. While cross-fertilisation occurs to a certain degree, there is only a certain amount of time in one organiser's life and the question is how to access it.

Television awareness links to my final recommendation that we need regional centralised information services. I am aware of an excellent FETAC advertisement on television at present. People are coming to adult education centres and asking how they can find out where these are taking place. We need a telephone number, as there is in the United Kingdom, to allow people to find their local service. While this might cost, it would be extremely quick and effective. As regional Department of Education and Science offices already exist, we should add value to them.

I may have laboured the point about overall co-ordination through various avenues. There is duplication and competition. The way initiatives can be rolled out through different Departments, local community agencies, etc. is not always effective. In themselves, none of these lacks value. Bringing them together with a sense of progression from first steps would give a much more enhanced picture of what is available for the literacy and basic education student. Networking at a local level is very complex. Perhaps in rural areas the VEC is one of the more predominant providers. Urban areas have a multiplicity of providers and, for some reason, any group setting up thinks it can have a go at adult education. Sadly, however, such groups are not always successful in their endeavours. People often have to come to the local literacy scheme to pick up the pieces. If one is parachuted in at the last moment, it can be quite difficult to make progress. Although better minds than mine have tried to crack this problem, a solution has not been found. This matter must be kept on the agenda.

Someone asked me to name the Departments involved in this area. Not only are the Departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Social and Family Affairs, Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Education and Science involved but the Health Service Executive and ADM also have roles to play. Everybody is involved — the list is endless. The issues of literacy and basic education are not just found in certain pockets of society, such as disadvantaged areas. They apply to every strand of society, every social group and every community.

I would like to conclude by talking about ESOL. Substantial numbers of asylum seekers and refugees are living in rented accommodation in some parts of the country. A large amount of rented accommodation seems to be available in the Dublin 15 area, where I work. Although the Adult Education Officers' Association makes a sizeable ESOL provision for asylum seekers and refugees, the level of language training provided is limited as a consequence of the association's budget. We need to consider how we can link up with the agencies that are providing more than language training to add value to the overall service. Do we know the total? Does anybody know it? I do not know.

Ms Bohan

At least two members spoke about the duplication of the service, while Deputy Enright spoke about the need to professionalise it. Ms Hogan listed all the Departments involved. I do not want to apportion blame but I have to say that blame lies with the Departments, many of which are delivering some level of service through different groupings. I am quite confident that if we contacted any of the Departments in question, it would not be aware, to any great extent, of what its counterparts are doing. There is, therefore, a duplication of service. As a speaker mentioned, groups in my local area of County Leitrim receive cross-Border funding. When adult education groups in that region are established, they have to find ways of sourcing the funds that are available. They do so, for example, by establishing schemes. They usually apply for funds under some of the adult education and community schemes. This enables them to deliver some level of service, although perhaps not in a very co-ordinated way, for the duration of the programme. When the programme ends, perhaps after a year, the groups cannot avail of further programmes and the VECs are needed once more. The VECs are ideally placed to offer adult education and to work with other groups. While it may be more difficult to do so in larger urban areas, it is not very difficult to deal with most groups throughout the country.

Under the Vocational Education (Amendment) Act 2001, VECs must prepare five-year integrated plans. The plans should outline the intentions of the VECs in the literacy area, as well as in all other areas. The preparation of such plans offers an ideal opportunity for adult education organisers and adult literacy organisers to work with other groups. I think the organisers are doing such work. As funding is given by other Departments to various groups on a year-to-year basis, it is difficult to co-ordinate the work of all the groups. The best way to ensure that such co-ordination takes place is to give an organisation such as a VEC responsibility for the delivery of the service within each county. I have fears in this regard, not about the provision of literacy services but about the broader adult education provided by community groups. I appreciate that community groups do very valuable work but I fear that some of it may be misguided. If such groups are delivering courses which are not certified or, in some cases, have dubious certification, it is not good for those who are availing of such services. For this reason, we need continuity and integrated, cohesive delivery of services. This can only be achieved if Departments come together or at least ensure they know what other Departments are doing in this area and if available funding is directed at the vocational educational committees, working closely with local and community groups. I have no hesitation in stating the current approach is all over the place and, as another speaker noted, the VECs are left to try to pick up the pieces. For example, people who start a course this year may find it is not available next year or the relevant VEC may not have included it in its budget for the year. As a result of the mess across Departments, those to whom we are meant to deliver a service are not receiving the service we could deliver if it was directed through the VECs, working with local groups.

On Deputy Crowe's question on cross-Border co-operation, while there is some co-operation between adult education officers and adult literacy officers, it could be strengthened. Perhaps the Irish Vocational Education Association could examine the possibility of trying to co-ordinate the approach which is too ad hoc and requires a better structure.

Dr. Connolly

My very active adult education officer has been sending me bits and pieces of paper at such a rate that I am finding it difficult to keep up with her. Such is the nature of the service; this is what adult education officers do.

On the question of UTV versus RTE, I am told the latter is weaker on literacy emphasis and strengthening than its counterparts in the North. Nevertheless, as members will be aware, a FETAC advertising campaign is under way and visible on the backs of buses and elsewhere. If, however, one was illiterate or had a literacy problem, one might not understand what it was about.

In terms of North-South co-operation, chief executive officers of VECs in the Border region meet their Northern counterparts from time to time to exchange ideas. I am also aware that some adult education officers nip across the Border for a chat with their colleagues. The commonality of language is very handy. No more than is the case elsewhere, items in English are taken back, the title "Department of Education, Northern Ireland" deleted and our own logo inserted. I am sure such practices which occur in some places do not take place in this House.

Deputy Enright who has an office in Birr, as I know from a recent visit to the town, asked about Youthreach, a programme defined as being for those, usually aged between 16 and 18 years, who did not make it in second level education. Most of those who use Youthreach have a literacy problem, while some have social problems in that they may not have fitted into a big school. The programme is a multi-layered, excellent solution which in years to come will be regarded as part of normal educational provision. The notion that everyone should be able to fit into a big school is rubbish and not shared by us. It is a sign of strength in the VEC sector that we have been able to look after this group.

On the question of better co-ordination of services, perhaps I would make a statement on the matter if I had parliamentary privilege but as I am not covered by privilege, I must be circumspect and discreet. The Oireachtas could pass legislation, if it so wished.

There is good co-operation at local level in County Louth. We all know one another. It is difficult to fight too much with the fellow from FÁS and the fellow from here. The problem is at national level, where some bodies are controlled very strictly. The IVEA does not have a hope of controlling the VECs. We are all disparate wheels. We focus together but not too sharply. The Department of Education and Science has tried to abolish us for years. It has tried to make sense of us but it has not succeeded. That is an indication of how well rooted we are locally. Our local connections work but the problem is at national level.

Let us take the case of an organisation that begins with "F" and ends with "S". The committee members can fill in what goes between those letters. Its rules come from the curriculum unit in Dublin in order that all the lads and lassies perk up and march this way and that way. Something is either on or it is not. Some people say it works.

Reference was made to private employers. There has been a large increase in part-time workers across all sectors. Most employers do not like spending a lot of money on them. Ronald McDonald in Dundalk has been very helpful in releasing his workers to us for training. I come from Dundalk, which was a highly industrialised town in the past. When I was growing up there during the last millennium, many people went to work in local industries at the age of 14 years. These were highly intelligent people, some of whom would have completed the primary certificate. Others would not have had much second level education. One now discovers they have started their own businesses and become leaders in the community, some in elected office, while others are active in a variety of areas.

I do not fully believe the talk about the figure of 25%. There are people with whom I went to school who were not privileged like me and who are not illiterate. I know where they are and they contribute to their communities in a positive way. I sometimes feel somewhat annoyed as regards the 25% figure. It was great for scaring whoever controlled the money.

Reference was made to Departments. I was told the reason adult literacy got such a big push was because the then Taoiseach — I will not give a date — was most concerned and worried and he told everyone involved to get working on it. I was given a pile of information but I am conscious that we are running out of time.

Mr. MacDiarmada

I wish to refer to a few areas which I discussed in my presentation. The lack of career structure is an important barrier to literacy. Thanks to the low unemployment rate, people come into this system. As a result of the intensity of the work, they must be highly trained and expert in what they do. If they get different work and move on, we have to start all over again. We need a structure to pay them properly so as to keep them and so on.

It is the case that business interests sponsor tuition and that various companies are involved. However, the system is really based on a personal relationship. If an adult literacy organiser knows a person well, he or she can work with the person and the relationship will be successful. If, however, any of the organisers leave, the whole system breaks down. We need a formal organisational structure in order that if a person leaves the system, it can continue to operate. More employers need to be aware of the value of the system and of the skills, other than reading and writing, that the participants acquire. That is very important. Our work involves telling this to employers. It should involve awareness-raising at national level.

Family literacy is one way of breaking the cycle, whereby the parents and child work together. This is very successful. The initiative is developing but we need more people to work on it. If more personnel in schools were aware of the initiative, it would be even more successful. It is working but we feel it should be developed. The initiative has helped.

Vice Chairman

I thank all of the delegations. We have had a very interesting session and I thank the representatives for answering our questions. It was suggested that we should deal with correspondence and EU scrutiny. Since it is 5 p.m., I propose that we leave them until after tomorrow's meeting.

The joint committee adjourned at 5 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 8 September 2005.