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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE AND SMALL BUSINESS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Apr 2004

Reform of the Irish Insurance Market: Presentation(Resumed).

Dr. O’Reilly

With regard to insurance supervision in particular, our strategic plan points out that we have started to carry out best practice reviews. We will allocate additional resources to the supervision of insurance companies so that more regular and comprehensive reporting by these companies can be introduced and the frequency of on-site inspections can be increased. We are also engaged in preparations for expected enhancements to the regulatory system with the implementation of the EU solvency II directive. I will now to go into more specific detail on the area of solvency.

The purpose of prudential supervision or supervision in terms of safety and soundness of institutions is to ensure that risks, including the incidence and value of claims, are adequately assessed and that there are sufficient assets to meet all liabilities to policyholders and claimants. The EU rules require insurance companies to establish an adequate solvency margin. The solvency margin is the extra funds cushion that member states' regulators require an insurance company to hold to meet unexpected liabilities.

As the committee is aware, the single market means that insurance companies authorised in any member state are entitled to provide services throughout the EU without any price control or prior notification of terms and conditions. Under this "single passport" system, insurance companies authorised by the relevant authorities in one member state can carry out business in another member state either directly or by establishing a branch. This system relies on the regulator in the state where the company is based setting out appropriate solvency requirements under agreed rules known as the EU solvency rules.

A question has been raised as to whether our solvency requirements are a barrier to competition or to entry to the market and whether lower solvency requirements would directly result in lower premia. The committee will be aware of what the Competition Authority said on the subject of the additional requirement for new entrants in its interim report. It states "While we have received some indications that this could be a hindrance, to some extent, to entrants, we have not received evidence that it is, in fact, a significant barrier to entry. It has been argued that it would not pose serious problems for viable entrants." Most companies maintain solvency levels well in excess of our requirements and we are not the only member state to require companies to maintain solvency levels in excess of the required minimum.

We can find no relationship between prices charged to consumers and the solvency position of individual companies. We observe that companies with high solvency margins may charge low prices and companies with lower solvency margins may charge higher prices. We have no evidence that companies have been dissuaded from pursuing an application for an Irish licence because of these solvency requirements. There is no sign that our solvency requirements are a deterrent to entry to the market here.

It is important to note that 400 companies are entitled to sell business into Ireland under EU rules. These are not subject to our solvency requirements but to the requirements of their own member state. However, only a handful are actually undertaking business here, which suggests that it is not the issue of solvency requirements that is shaping their decision.

We do not want solvency rules to be used as an arbitrary method to restrict entry. We want solvency rules to protect consumers from the disastrous consequences that would arise from the failure of an insurance company.

I wish to address the specific recommendations that relate to the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority in the interim report. Recommendation 5 states that we should facilitate placing of motor insurance business outside the jurisdiction by amending regulations. We are not aware of any regulations prohibiting the placement of Irish motor insurance business outside the jurisdiction. However, if any does come to our notice or if the committee can bring such facts to our notice, we would be happy to pursue them.

Recommendation 19 states that we review the Irish solvency regulations to ensure that they are in the best interests of policyholders, existing insurance companies operating in Ireland and potential entrants. We are currently engaged in a best practice review comparing our supervisory standards and practice against those of a number of other countries, including a number within the EU. In considering changes to our regime in light of this exercise, we will be mindful of consumer concerns, the recommendations of this committee, the MIAB and the work of the Competition Authority. A more thorough review of the EU regulatory standards is now under way. This is known as solvency II and will focus on capital requirements, supervisory practices and transparency through improved reporting by companies. This will introduce a more risk based approach to capital requirements. In other words, companies that can demonstrate that they are managing and providing for risks in a prudent manner will benefit from lesser capital requirements.

Recommendation 20 states that the Government permits insurance companies, as part of their solvency requirements, to invest in public-private partnerships. Under the third non-life EU insurance directive, public-private partnership investments cannot be included as part of the technical reserves of an insurance company. The concern is that the assets could be tied up for a long period of time and could not be quickly liquidated if required. However, assets held against the solvency margin could include a public-private partnership investment where the asset in question was readily realisable in order to meet capital requirements.

Recommendation 22 provides that the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority, in the interests of transparency, should publish the justifications given by insurance companies for changes in their premia. We are of the view that transparency is best served through our independent cost surveys which clearly show the prices of typical products. To date we have published surveys on motor insurance and personal current account charges, which have been highly effective in encouraging consumers to shop around. We will shortly extend the cost surveys to include other products such as credit cards and will include home insurance later this year.

Recommendation 23 relates to us and recommends giving effect to the IBEC/IIF communications guidelines by statutory order, so that the guidelines have the power of law. We are currently undertaking a full review of the codes of conduct applying across the financial services industry during 2004. This involves a comprehensive consultation process during which input will be requested from all interested parties. Following that consultation process, we will examine how to incorporate appropriate aspects of these guidelines into the revised codes.

Recommendation 28 states that we should remove all regulatory barriers or regulatory impositions that make entry to the Irish market more difficult than to any other EU country. I have already addressed part of this issue during my earlier references to solvency. However, there has been some comment, including by the Competition Authority, that there may be information gaps in the market and that this may be a barrier to entry. We are already working to improve the information and data available on insurance. This work addresses recommendations of the MIAB and, following a request from the Tánaiste, we are examining how data and information issues in the employer liability and public liability markets can be addressed.

Recommendation 33 refers to the fact that a scheme for brokers should be established that would permit any broker to deal, on behalf of clients, with any insurance company. The structure of regulation operated by us for brokers comprises two principal categories - multi-agency intermediaries, which includes tied agents, and authorised advisers. Brokers can decide which category to opt for. Multi-agency intermediaries may only deal with those insurance companies from whom they hold a letter of appointment and they must tell consumers the names of the insurance companies with which they deal. Authorised advisers can deal with any insurance company in the marketplace. Our rules, therefore, allow brokers to deal with any insurance company, subject only to their demonstrating the necessary level of competency by electing to be regulated as an authorised adviser. Approximately one quarter of brokers are authorised advisers, while the remainder are multi-agency intermediaries. The categorisation of insurance intermediaries has been raised in our consultation on codes of conduct.

Recommendation 35 refers to the fact that we should give consideration to the issue of whether brokers should operate only on a fee basis. We are anxious to increase the level of transparency relating to costs for consumers and what they must pay in terms of fees or commission. We are undertaking a study on this matter and we intend to issue a consultation paper in this regard this year. We will seek consumer views. We have already publicly stated that some types of commission, such as volume over-rides, do not appear to act as an incentive to sell the best product to the consumer. The important point is that consumers should know how much they are paying and for what they are paying.

Recommendation 40 refers to the fact that organisations meeting certain financial criteria should be able to self-insure for all motor risks. It is my understanding that the obligation to hold motor insurance and the possibility of derogations from that obligation is a matter of policy for the Department of Transport. From a consumer protection point of view, the important issue is that those involved in an accident should be able to claim against an entity with sufficient funds. That entity must have the relevant expertise to measure and manage risk.

I thank you, Chairman, and the committee for inviting me to attend this morning. I am happy to take any questions members may wish to ask.

Thank you, Dr. O'Reilly. This committee has met many organisations and arms of the industry to put together our second interim report which we hope to publish by the end of May. I note what you said about the reduction of premiums when policy holders shop around. However, that only happened in the motor insurance sector. Increases were asked for on renewals, but it was only when people decided to shop around that they got a reduction.

Regarding commercial employer's liability and public liability insurance, what has been your recent experience in terms of insurance premium renewals? There does not seem to be any movement in that area. We are concerned about that because it affects small and medium sized family businesses and the creation of new jobs. What is the most important issue in terms of further reducing motor insurance costs?

Dr. O’Reilly

Information is the key in ensuring that policy holders get a good price and good value. We are involved in providing information in various areas. The Tánaiste has asked us to look at the area of employer's liability and public liability insurance. Our major concentration will be on ensuring that we can provide information to the consumers so they can make rational decisions. I will ask Ms Sharon Donnery to say a few words.

Ms Sharon Donnery

There were a number of specific recommendations from the MIAB regarding data on premiums and claims profiles and also on the cost surveys. We are working to implement those. That is probably why there has been some improvement in the information area in the case of motor insurance.

As Dr. O'Reilly said, the Tánaiste has asked us to look at employer's liability and public liability insurance. We are examining how work which has been done on motor insurance can be extended into the employer's liability and public liability areas, either through better information from the insurance companies in the form of statutory returns in the blue book or better information for consumers in terms of how they can shop around or what products and premia are available.

The committee would consider it useful if the blue book for 2003 was made available as quickly as possible. When does IFSRA intend to publish it?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

We intend to publish the blue book towards the end of the third quarter of this year. The issue is that insurance companies have by law up to six months in which to submit their annual statutory returns. These returns require to be signed off by both actuarial experts and auditors. That is why there has been a delay.

Does that include Allianz?

Mr. Brosnan

It includes Allianz and all Irish insurance companies. However, an initiative has been taken by IFSRA to exhort companies to submit their returns in a more prompt fashion. We have written to all companies and secured agreement that they will endeavour to submit their returns towards the end of April. We expect we will be able to publish the blue book at an earlier stage, but it will still be in the third quarter of this year.

Dr. O’Reilly

I am keen to make every effort to publish information as soon as possible so that it remains relevant. As part of our strategic plan, I intend to see what work we can do to shorten the time period.

The committee found that the information IFSRA provided on the website about the cost of motor insurance was useful to consumers. It is also useful for businesses, particularly small businesses. If similar information was available on public liability and employer's liability insurance, would IFSRA consider providing that service?

Dr. O’Reilly

Yes.

I welcome IFSRA to the meeting. I will confine myself to four questions, some of which will tease out the role of this new agency. We know its statutory provisions, but it must make its own shape in terms of its role.

Regarding the attitude of IFSRA to the draft European Commission proposal on equal treatment for men and women in insurance, does IFSRA, as the financial regulator, have a view on the righteousness or otherwise of a proposal that would disregard the actuarial issues and require equal premia for men and women?

My second question goes to the heart of a number of our recommendations in the first interim report. Our objective is to get more players and more competition into the market. Regarding the response to the recommendations given to the committee this morning, does IFSRA regard it as its role or is it neutral on that matter? IFSRA said there are no barriers, but I would like it to be more proactive than that. Is IFSRA's role to make the market more competitive and achieve the objective set out in the opening paragraph of "being focused on the consumer and consumer interests"? If IFSRA is minded to see that as its role, what are the information gaps that have been identified? What is it doing to plug those gaps?

Has Dr. O'Reilly any recommendations to make the market more competitive and to get more of the 400 companies that are entitled to sell business here actually doing business in this jurisdiction? Is there a requirement for some sort of common EU financial regulator to ensure, for example, that when insurance companies collapse - like the one that impacted on so many customers in Ireland last year and which was regulated by the British authorities - the British clients are not looked after at the expense of Irish ones. The Tánaiste explained it was because they were obliged to look after customers who were legally obliged to have insurance. Should that system not operate on an EU-wide basis, rather than on a narrow basis?

Commissions and fees constitute another big issue we raised in our report. Dr. O'Reilly has pointed out the regime that exists. Brokers can be multi-agency intermediaries or authorised advisers, but is that the regime that should exist as opposed to the one that does exist? In Dr. O'Reilly's view, would it be in the consumers' interest for every broker to have an obligation to provide the full range of insurance available or should there be such a thing as tied agents that are only authorised to sell selected products or, indeed, one company's products?

Dr. O'Reilly did not really give us his attitude to the issue of whether a percentage of premia should be available to the broker or whether it should be a flat rate. Is he saying that the market should decide and that if it is transparent the customer can make his or her own choice? Is that his view?

My final question relates to the surveys undertaken by IFSRA. It seems to me that the surveys IFSRA has produced have been debunked to an extent by the insurance companies. They said the surveys amounted to random sampling, whereas they could produce - as one company did - all the business done in a selected period to give a real snapshot of the impact on premia. Why does IFSRA not have that data and why is it not comprehensively requiring companies to provide the complete range of business done in a snapshot period? If one company can do it, they can all do it. Would that not provide real transparency on trends in insurance costs?

Dr. O’Reilly

On equal treatment, the major way in which products should be priced is on the basis of risk. The issue that arises in this particular case is how one measures risk, whether or not risk is being measured appropriately——

By gender.

Dr. O’Reilly

——and whether or not it should be measured by gender. That is the way it is being done at the moment and there are no more precise measures at this stage. I would like it to become more objective and less about making value judgments about how one should measures things. At the end of the day, it is about measuring risk appropriately. If, through our ingenuity, we can keep it classless and gender-free, I would be happy but I do not know whether we have reached that nirvana yet.

Where does the organisation stand on the proposal from the Commission?

Dr. O’Reilly

We will implement the law as it is, but the proposal——

You do not have an opinion?

Dr. O’Reilly

I do. The proposal from the Commission does not seem to make sense, unless they have an alternative way of measuring risk.

That was the first question.

The second question was about the international dimension and how to get more players in. What are the information gaps that Dr. O'Reilly talked about?

Dr. O’Reilly

The major information gap may be with consumers and we have a role to play there - that is, by letting consumers know the wide range of product producers that might be out there ready to offer them products. Maybe we have a bit more work to do in letting consumers know that there are other providers besides the usual list of people in the economy. There are also information gaps concerning claims and premia, so we need to get more information on that into the market. We need to get more information out about the profiles of those insured and the costs of insuring them. We are working hard on these gaps as we identify them and, as the committee may identify them, we would be happy to see how we can plug them.

The Deputy asked a more general question as to whether we have a role in this area. We have a statutory role to promote competition within the sector, so we definitely do have a role.

You are working hand in hand with consumers.

Dr. O’Reilly

: Yes. The new area of responsibility we have gained is in consumer protection. My consumer director is working enthusiastically in this area. We will be happy to see how we can plug gaps. In doing so, however, it is important to prioritise our work and make sure we use our resources as much as possible.

As regards fees and commissions, it is important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is a firm view that commissions are being used inappropriately to sell products that are inappropriate to consumers. From that point of view, it is important for us to work on that area particularly. I mentioned overrides earlier; that is, if an insurance salesman sells one extra product to a person, he will get a big reward. That does not seem to be appropriate. It is important, however, to reward the best salespersons, but what does one mean by "the best person at selling"? It is important that the reward structure should be set in such a way that the consumer is satisfied, not the brokers' pay-packet.

In your experience to date, have you come across double brokerage? That is where a double brokerage fee is charged to a consumer on any one product. We passed on a complaint to the Competition Authority of a double brokerage experience. The original demand was for €75,000 and it finished up at €45,000 when it was investigated. Did you come across any double brokerage?

Dr. O’Reilly

Any complaints that we would get in that area——

A small broker in rural Ireland got a major broker in the capital city to assist him to get insurance from a particular company, and a double brokerage fee was charged. Have you come across that in your experience?

Ms Donnery

I have come across it in that the committee brought it to the attention of the Competition Authority and reference has been made to that situation in its report.

Ms Donnery

We have not had any specific complaints about that particular situation.

It is something to look out for in the future.

Ms Donnery

Yes.

Dr. O’Reilly

If we can encourage people to complain about that sort of thing, which would be contrary to our statutory codes, it is important to do so. When people are buying a product, they should be aware of precisely what the cost structure is and, by definition, that they are not being double charged for a job.

What about the third question?

Dr. O’Reilly

That was about the commissions.

Question four?

Dr. O’Reilly

If a broker is selling products and is an independent adviser, it is important that he is actually fitted and able to do the job. That is what we have been trying to do. We have been trying to make sure that those "authorised advisers" have a certain set of criteria in terms of competence, of capital and of standing by what they are doing. It is for this reason that we have two categories.

We were asked if we can extend that category to every broker. The danger of this is that one is lowering the barrier in terms of standards. There are brokers who are expert in particular products and with a particular firm. From that point of view, it is important that while they do a useful business, they must make clear to the consumer that they are actually an employee of the insurance firm in selling that product. It is important to break it down between those two areas. What was the last question?

It was about a survey and data. Dr. O'Reilly presented a survey. Why would he not require them to give a comprehensive snapshot of all business so that one could have a real analysis available?

Dr. O’Reilly

I will hand over to Ms Sharon Donnery in a minute. It is important that we do not create an overload with the consumers and that we give them simple, straightforward data to digest. We found the motor survey a highly effective way of doing so but that would not preclude doing other work.

Ms Donnery

I agree with Dr. O'Reilly that there is a distinction between what we gather and what we have available for us to understand what is going on in the market. Obviously it is beneficial to have the full spectrum. For consumers, one needs something that is clear, concise, easy to use and user-friendly. That is how the motor survey has been developed.

We have asked consumers for feedback and we are doing further research on how consumers are using the survey and whether they feel they need more or less information, and that can be taken into account. Of course we can look at the broader picture of the general statistics we gather and what information we could publish, say in the blue book or in other such formats, rather than just in the cost surveys.

Does Mr. Tony Briscoe of IBEC wish to comment on the four questions of Deputy Howlin?

Mr. Tony Briscoe

I thank the committee for inviting me back today and for giving me the opportunity to be involved in the discussions, which are much appreciated by me personally, IBEC and the business community. This necessary process has been well received by business as an informed and detailed review of the system.

Often many businesses cannot differentiate between the broker and the insurer. Many small businesses often think the broker is the insurer. The difficult is that there is a system where the current market is determined by what happened two years ago and the perception of companies entering that market is also so based.

The reality is that all the information we are looking at in 2004 is historical and that is problematic for us in the business community. We saw the number of employer's liability claims falling to 6,800 in 2002. We do not yet know what the figure is for 2003 and yet we see the cost of claims increasing exponentially. The only conclusion I can draw is that the technical reserves must be a significant factor.

I was interested in the comment on solvency. I was surprised that while there are solvency variables, there is no net knock-on effect on premiums. I was so surprised because I was not aware that there were significant variations.

Information is important but the business experience, based on our last analysis, is that between 2001 and 2003 commercial insurance on employer's liability and public liability has gone up by over 100%. We are getting positive anecdotal evidence from businesses but that is more tedious to assess because it is also a function of how the businesses are organising their insurance. Some companies are taking significant deductibles or excesses. They are moving from a conventional type of insurance arrangement to an arrangement where they are largely self-insuring and paying a premium on top of that. One is not comparing like with like. That makes the analysis a little more difficult. That is not an option for small businesses.

I am advised that a broker, whether he or she is a tied agent or otherwise, is obliged to seek out the best deal, both in cost and service for his or her client. If that means the policy found is not with the insurance company to which he or she is tied, the broker must advise the client that there is another. I am not 100% certain of that. I do not know whether that happens but it has been suggested to me that it should happen.

There is a vote in the Dáil. Before we suspend, I call on IBEC to carry out a survey this year for the committee on the insurance premium data of its members. Due to the time lag we are working on the 2002 report. We will get the 2003 report in the next few months. Mr. Briscoe, could you give a commitment to the committee to carry out an up-to-date survey by early autumn? We can then work on our third interim report.

Mr. Briscoe

Certainly, Chairman. I would be delighted to bring that request back to my colleagues.

It would be of great assistance to the committee if you could do so.

Mr. Briscoe

I personally am not in a position to commit to that but I am quite happy to inform my colleagues of your request.

The committee is suspended until the conclusion of the division in the Dáil.

Sitting suspended at 12.36 p.m. and resumed at 12.52 p.m.

I welcome Dr. O'Reilly and his team. I also welcome Mr. Tony Briscoe from IBEC. Dr. O'Reilly's team has put forward a very informative document and has responded in detail to the recommendations in our first report. That said, a point made by Mr. Briscoe could be answered by Dr. O'Reilly on brokers and agents. My information is that Dr. O'Reilly's code of practice indicates that a multi-intermediary, which is tied, may only give the best deal from that company. Is that right?

Dr. O’Reilly

That is right. It would be contrary to the code of practice to quote from any company which is not tied to the multi-intermediary.

That clarifies Mr. Briscoe's point.

The broker cannot sell a company's product if it is not tied to that company.

Dr. O’Reilly

Yes, that is why it is a tied agency - it is tied to that company.

The agency does not have to get the best deal for its client, which is very important. Are you allowing this to happen?

Dr. O’Reilly

When a person makes himself out to be a certain type of person, it would be wrong of him to sell the products of a company when he is not qualified to do so.

Even though it would be in the consumer's best interest?

Dr. O’Reilly

If they want to act in the best interests of the consumer and they want to sell different products, then we advise them to become an authorised adviser.

Is it possible to become an authorised adviser like that?

Dr. O’Reilly

There are standards.

A company operating here, which went bust in 2002, left many operators high and dry without insurance. What involvement did you have to allow that to happen in the Irish market? Your organisation may not have existed at that time, as it was formed quite recently.

There are 400 organisations in Europe which could operate here but they are not coming in. You cannot understand why they are not coming in, and neither can we, as this would be a lucrative market for them. Are there barriers obstructing their entry into the market? Is there anything your organisation can do to remove those obstacles? They would be required to contribute to the non-insurance fund, those who are afflicted by accidents involving people who are not insured. They would have to contribute to that fund. Is that a barrier to their entry to this market? Are there barriers in the Irish market facing European companies coming into the market, either through the Internet or direct selling in the State? Why are they not coming in? This perplexes me.

On multi-agency intermediaries, many companies will not give an agency to more than one company in an area. Is there a cartel operating here which stops brokers from getting an agency? If one is an authorised adviser it is likely one will not get an agency from some companies, which are quite restrictive about who they give the agencies to. Maybe this should be liberalised, and a company in the marketplace should be allowed to sell for any other company, with no barriers to such activity. Perhaps Dr. O'Reilly's organisation can open those barriers and should be more proactive.

Why do you not ask the 400 EU companies why they are not providing options to Irish consumers? You have said you are consumer-oriented, but maybe you should prove that by bringing in more companies.

The organisation was founded over a year ago.

Dr. O’Reilly

There are two general points being made, one on barriers to foreign companies operating here. I may pass that on to Frank, but my information is there are no barriers of any sort. I am trying to opine as to why that is the case and it may be a matter of promotion. Perhaps consumers do not know of the availability and choice, and maybe we have more work to do in that area.

Mr. Briscoe can comment on that.

Mr. Brosnan

I have two points. There are no restrictions. Every country has the equivalent of the Motor Insurance Bureau of Ireland and if an Irish insurer wants to write insurance in another country, then it must adhere to that agreement. That is an EU-wide requirement. It does not represent a barrier to entry in that respect.

The Senator mentioned what happened with Independent Insurance. The concept of the single market means companies in other jurisdictions can write into this one, and we all recognise that. However, we place reliance on the solvency and prudential supervision of the other regulators. As such we do not have a role in monitoring the solvency of those companies. We are notified and given statistical data at the end of each year but the responsibility rests with the authorities.

I do not want to go into the factors relating to Independent Insurance but we are very conscious of the hardship caused by its failure. It underlines an initiative and concern Ireland highlighted several times at EU level - that gaps and overlaps existed in guarantee schemes in different EU countries. We initiated an initiative at EU level, submitting a paper to the European Commission on the issue of policy holder protection where an EU insurer from another member state fails, and our work led to the creation of an EU working group on this topic. It has been in operation since March 2002.

We are currently commencing work on a draft legal text based on minimum harmonisation of guarantee schemes. It will require that every member state has a guarantee scheme. It will also ensure that in the event of failures, citizens from other countries will be treated no less favourably than domestic citizens. The process has still some way to go as there is concern about the issues of moral hazard, which means that policy holders may choose the cheapest insurance if they feel they are being covered by a guarantee scheme in the event of failure. We always ask them to ensure they make prudential options. There is also an issue in regard to the funding of the guarantee schemes we are working through. This is the concern that ex-post funding could result in responsible insurers picking up the tab for reckless insurers.

Is there a European IFSRA?

Dr. O’Reilly

Not at this stage. There is not yet a single regulator for Europe, which Deputy Howlin mentioned. We are evolving towards that situation but we are a long way from it at this point.

It is a very comprehensive reply. I am pleased the European Union is working in this regard. The Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority gives a false sense of security to many companies. They believe IFSRA has responsibility for overseas non-Irish companies coming into the marketplace, which is a dangerous thing.

In regard to the ten applicant countries, if a dodgy company from a small country is involved, they could quote prices here, rip off the system and nothing could be done about it. IFSRA should take a pro-active role in guiding Irish consumers. It should say that X company from, say, Romania or elsewhere, is a dodgy company. It should be a case of "buyer beware".

The committee takes that into account. The word "insurance" means certainty. That is what it used to mean to people insuring their premises, employees or whatever. We will keep the debate at a certain level, but we are aware of the dangers which have occurred in the past.

I suggest that IFSRA has a role to warn the Irish people about dodgy companies.

Dr. O’Reilly

We have a strong duty in regard to consumer advice and information. We will ensure that consumers are aware of the "do's" and "don'ts" when buying policies.

Will IFSRA have a website dealing with the advice that might need to be given if some inherent danger were to emerge?

Dr. O’Reilly

We have a website at the moment. All our surveys and documents on mortgage advice are on the website in terms of "do's" and "don'ts". We are heading towards the selling of insurance and the "do's" and "don'ts" in that area.

Will the organisation aggressively market this service in future advertising campaigns?

Dr. O’Reilly

We will. The codes will apply as much to foreign insurance companies operating here as they will to domestic companies.

Is IFSRA any different from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment when it was the regulator for the financial services sector and the insurance companies in particular? Is IFSRA doing anything different?

Dr. O’Reilly

There is one major difference, namely, that IFSRA is the single regulator of all financial services. On the question of whether we are dealing with insurance companies and brokers differently from the Department, there are areas where we need to do some work, one of which is in the area of information. We currently get information from insurance companies once a year. We feel this is inadequate to monitor on a regular basis what is happening within the insurance sector.

How often?

Dr. O’Reilly

We would like it to be quarterly.

I have absolutely no confidence in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment's role in the past in regard to acting as a regulator. It presided over a situation where there was practically no competition in the general insurance market. It allowed a situation to develop through mergers and monopolies whereby there are just five or six general insurance companies prepared to quote on the market.

Senator Leyden is correct. Action must be taken against companies who have the luxury of having a licence to trade but do not do so. There is no political will, incentive or urgency at EU level towards enhancing competition. Mr. David Deacon has said that one can bring a horse to water but one cannot make it drink. This applies to the licensing of insurance companies from outside the jurisdiction. We must draw up a system to penalise people who have the luxury of a licence here but who are here for one reason only, namely, to dip in and out and cherry pick at particular times of the year or particular times over a couple of years in order to get good business. This is not acceptable. As a regulator, IFSRA must do something about this issue in a transparent manner.

Has the organisation come across a situation where manipulation of reserves and claims by insurance companies is at the core of the huge profits emerging in 2003 to the tune of _500 million? This is against a background where consumers got a reduction of 10%, and where there have been increases of up to 300% in certain categories of employer's liability and public liability insurance for particular businesses over the last three years. It is an absolute disgrace that there is an insurance reform agenda, which this committee and the Tánaiste are actively trying to implement, and the only result so far is huge increases in the profits of insurance companies, and nothing else. The single market is the only way of ensuring competition. As I said earlier, entitlement versus actual trading is how I would judge IFSRA in regard to how it gets more competition into the market.

Has the organisation done any work as part of the working group in developing a system of compensating consumers in each member state as part of the agenda of bringing into being a genuine single market of the European Union? The kernel of the matter is how one compensates people in the event of an accident, no matter what jurisdiction they are in.

I was surprised that the Competition Authority decided to take on the brokers rather than insurance companies first. It has a habit of taking on the easy target first, such as the engineering professions rather than the legal profession. However, that is its business, of which I am critical. A balance is required in terms of having sufficient brokers and agents in the marketplace in order to shop around for consumers. If there is over-regulation, there will be fewer players and less choice, therefore the insurance companies will have a monopoly, as is the case in other sectors of the economy where they can do what they like.

I have already addressed the information gap for consumers in terms of getting more companies to trade. We must accept the reality that we are living in a different world if we believe that five or six insurance companies here will provide competition. IFSRA's challenge is to put a regime in place through the working group of the EU or whatever to bring more companies here. That will be the test of how we get genuine competition at an EU-wide level in order to devise a system of compensating people and providing real competition to licence holders in this jurisdiction. Sanctions must be introduced for people who do not do so.

On the 2% levy, there is a genuine concern that jobs are being lost because claims are coming in for companies where the Irish Independent Group was the actual insurer. There is genuine hurt among Irish companies who were insured at that stage, shopped around, did what was right and got the lowest possible premium. However, these companies were penalised for doing so. When they approached the Insurance Corporation of Ireland or some other Irish company the following year, the premiums were 300% higher. Just because they were a British licence holder does not mean there is not a moral obligation on this jurisdiction to look after people who, through no fault of their own, shopped around and got the cheapest insurance, while these "fly by nights" went broke, and tough luck on consumers. It is costing jobs in many firms at present.

Dr. O’Reilly

I have been asked if things will be different in the new authority. We will operate a system of best practice. This will include insuring that institutions are safe and sound but also that the consumer gets a fair deal. Our strategic plan and objectives make a firm commitment in that area and we will be measured on our success in it.

The major question regarding solvency is to make sure that companies have enough money to cover going broke and to balance that against over-reserving. The players in this area are the actuaries, the boards of the insurance companies and the auditors who are supposed to provide a true and fair view. Over the next year or two we will be making sure that adequate reserves are being provided for companies to remain solvent while making sure a true and fair view is represented. The auditors' job is crucial. With the passage of the auditing and accounting Bill there will be a need for auditors to work much more closely with the regulator. We will be looking at that side of things.

Mr. Frank Brosnan has already dealt with the question of a system of compensation. We are taking an initiative within the EU on that matter.

We do not want to over-regulate and thereby drive people out of the business and remove consumer choice. For this reason we have set up a system of multi-agency and authorised advisers. We allow a large degree of flexibility between the two. It is important to make sure the consumer always knows what he or she is getting and is fully informed by the salesperson, whether that is the product producer or the broker. I agree that fewer players means less choice. We must be conscious of how we do our job while doing it effectively.

Mr. Briscoe

I welcome the comments from IFSRA. It is important that we have a clear picture and that solvency is assured or insured. That is important to business. It is also important that savings accrue.

If one is making a product today one is in today's market and one looks into the future. History has some impact but in the insurance business we have much history and we need more forward thinking.

Like Deputies Howlin and Hogan and others I ask about the number of insurance companies operating in the Irish market. If an area of the market is profitable companies will wish to enter that area. The report states that 400 EU companies could enter the Irish market under their own solvency laws. They do not wish to enter it even though Ireland is profitable.

Representatives of Quinn Direct appeared before this committee and told us that their cost for insuring a hotel had dropped by between 20% and 25% in one year. I asked if other companies had dropped their rates and after much questioning FBD said it did not insure hotels. Coming to Leinster House the following morning I remarked to the taxi driver that insurance premium costs had fallen. "Not for me," he said. I asked if he had tried Quinn Direct and he told me that company did not insure taxis. Does an unofficial cartel operate between the small number of companies operating in the Irish market?

A well-known hotelier from Wexford told me that when his insurance company, which was based in Britain, became insolvent the company's British based clients were compensated but the Irish clients were not. Do Irish companies suffer through our membership of the EU? If so, can anything be done about it?

Dr. O’Reilly

There are 130 head offices in Ireland and 400 cross-Border. A deeper question is what business they do. We might follow up on that later.

There is a practice of clients of insurance companies receiving renewal notices, shopping around for a better deal and then going back to the original company which then matches the lower offer. One hears of people shopping around two or three times and returning to the original company to secure an even lower premium. This can lead to sharp practice and is an unethical approach to business by insurance companies. Can something be done to curtail this? Can insurance companies be regulated so that they cannot rip off the clients who do not shop around?

Dr. O’Reilly

That is a very good question. Transparency is crucial so that the first price quoted is the actual price on offer. In providing information to consumers we must ensure that the information being provided is true. A little competition does no harm. If it is excessive it can cause problems.

Is it not sharp practice to attempt to rip off a client in the initial stage?

Dr. O’Reilly

Yes. We should have a clearer way of pricing products.

I thank the witnesses for coming to the committee. They have been most helpful.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.20 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 21 April 2004.
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