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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Dec 2007

2006 Annual Report: Discussion with IDA Ireland.

I welcome Mr. Seán Dorgan, CEO, Mr. Barry O'Leary, CEO designate, and Ms Eileen Sharpe, regional and ecosystem manager of the IDA. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss the IDA annual report for 2006. I have no doubt that the witnesses will realise that my colleagues have other questions relevant to the various areas that they represent. Mr. Dorgan will begin the discussion by outlining the main points and objectives set out in the report. His colleagues can assist him with the questions that will be forthcoming from committee members.

I draw the witnesses' attention to the fact that members of this committee have absolute privilege, but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. It is generally accepted that witnesses have qualified privilege, but the committee cannot guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official, by name, or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

I am glad to say that Mr. Barry O'Leary is taking over as chief executive on 1 January, but he is already doing a great deal of work, as is Ms Eileen Sharpe, who is head of regions and ecosystems in the IDA.

The annual report for 2006 summarises the activities and performance of the IDA in that year. The main indicators of performance are on page 17. It also discusses the nature of foreign direct investment that is now available globally, and how Ireland competes for it. It also highlights the groundwork that we continue to build as a basis for success in future years, because foreign direct investment has been a huge contributor to the Irish economy over an extended period.

The 1,000 multinational companies in the IDA's portfolio employ 135,000 directly, but they create far more of an employment impact than that; for example, they spend €15 billion per annum in the economy. They bring cutting edge technology, business practices and a global orientation to Ireland. It is fair to say that, in many respects, they have helped to make Ireland's reputation internationally, especially in the past 20 years. They have built on the foundations that were laid perhaps as far back as 50 years ago.

In the report we spend some time discussing the nature of foreign direct investment and the change which has happened in Ireland and in the global economy. It is that global economy and the market we play in that really determines our success. Members of this committee do not need to be reminded of the huge changes that have happened in the past 15 to 20 years in Ireland. What we now offer must be different in terms of the skill and expertise available. The cost level is different. The quality of infrastructure and ecosystem must be more world class relative to where we were, as we are now competing for the high-skill, high-expertise, high-value and high-paying investments that are available globally. There is a lot of competition for those investments from locations that were not in the market economy ten or 15 years ago, such as China, India and central and eastern Europe. As a result, we have had to position ourselves differently when trying to win investment.

The existing overseas companies in Ireland have also had to transform. The great untold story of what has happened in Ireland in the past ten years is the way in which Irish managers in multinational subsidiaries have so often transformed the activities that are going on in those subsidiaries. We give examples in pages six to nine of the report of companies with global responsibilities operating out of Ireland. Previously, the Irish operations were a production unit within the global corporation. A few of the examples mentioned include Apple in Cork, which was originally and still is a manufacturing establishment, but now has a wide range of service activity, serving all of the European market. Similarly, the Pepsi plant in Cork is the worldwide concentrate headquarters for the company. It has brought a series of important strategic functions into Cork as a result of the performance of the plant and the work done by the Irish management team there. A significant part of the unseen work of the IDA is to support those management teams in the multinational subsidiaries to achieve that sort of transformation, so that their position can be sustained in the face of all the changes in Ireland and in the global economy.

We sum up in three areas what is needed now for continued investment. The first area is people and skills, which is increasing expertise. The second area is the operating environment in the broadest sense, which is both hard infrastructure and the operating arrangements for companies, often very specific elements that support pharmaceuticals or medical technology, financial services or digital media. The third area is low taxation, which is an important element of international competition for investment, although it is never enough in itself to win investment.

We also cover regional development in the annual report because it is very important that we can win and sustain investments in a balanced regional way. We made good progress in that in 2006, as 60% of all new greenfield investments were located outside Dublin and 85% of all research and development investments were outside Dublin. That is really good because it is helping to deepen the roots and to transform the activities of existing investments.

At page 15, the annual report includes some good examples of investments made. Some of the highlights include: investments at Cisco's software development centre in Galway; Cortis in Cashel with regard to cardiac and vascular devices; the Northern Trust funds centre in Limerick; GlaxoSmithKline, which builds on the research and development investments of recent years and brings additional production to Cork; Ely Lilly, which announced development of a biologics plant in Kinsale; and Vistacon, which expanded its activities in Limerick. There are many other examples. One of my personal highlights was to see Georgia Tech Ireland establishing a research institute in Athlone. It is relatively small to begin with but will bring additional investment into the midlands because the company has invested in Athlone.

There are also occasional disappointments such as yesterday's announcement at Abbott Ireland that it would close its plant in Galway in the next year. It is a disappointment, first, for the people directly involved in Galway, for Galway city and the IDA, but also for Abbott, because it has been a remarkable example of a multinational which has grown, developed and extended its activities here for 60 years and it continues to grow. A point I wish to make is that yesterday's announcement should not be seen in any way as indicative of a loss of momentum in Abbott Ireland or the medical technology industry in Ireland. We have seen considerable investment in the industry in recent years and it is experiencing a continuing transformation. An increasing level of the activity taking place is more valuable, better paying, more demanding and sophisticated, and this trend will continue. Given the nature of the global economy and the competitive challenges all companies face, they must sometimes make hard decisions. It is to Ireland's credit and benefit that we can accept those decisions, move on and continue to work with companies such as Abbott which have contributed so much.

To summarise, the annual report refers to some of the key issues that arise in the areas of skills, the continuing investment in third and fourth level education, the development of necessary expertise and the development of infrastructure in order that we can offer a world-class base for world-class activities. This needs to be very much in line with the national spatial strategy and the national development plan because the challenge for us is to win high value investments that tend to look towards cities and urban environments for development. We also need to maintain the flexibility which is so well recognised and understood by international investors when they come to Ireland. We need the ability both nationally and in the workplace to make adjustments and move quickly to meet changing needs because the world economy is moving so quickly and there are many other competitive locations, and also to sustain our tax position.

That summarises what we have tried to cover in the annual report. I hope it gives the committee some sense of what IDA Ireland is focusing on and seeking to achieve. I am happy to take questions.

I thank Mr. Dorgan.

I welcome the delegation and wish Mr. Dorgan good health and happiness in whatever he takes on — I do not believe he hopes to retire. It might be worthwhile bringing him back on 2 January in private session to get his views on some of the issues dealt with in the report, which might guide our work well. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. O'Leary last Friday. I wish him every success.

On the manufacturing sector, the announcement on Baxter Healthcare last Friday was very significant in that it is an investment of €75 million to protect existing jobs without creating new ones. Is this an indication of a new strategy within IDA Ireland to sustain and protect existing manufacturing jobs where the recipient company is willing to work with the IDA? While I accept the representatives cannot give specific information, what kind of budget does this involve and are more projects in line?

The annual report includes very diplomatic comments on the challenges faced with regard to infrastructure and other issues. There are times when I wish the IDA would be more vocal and less diplomatic in its dealings with the NRA and ComReg. I am particularly conscious of the remarks made this week by the eBay executive on broadband. Do the representatives wish to comment? Should the IDA be more vocal on issues such as infrastructure and broadband? For those of us campaigning for regional development, it might be good to have a more vocal IDA in our corner.

The chief executive pointed to several successes with regard to employment. Overall, however, the figures on page 19 of the report show that the number of IDA-supported companies and jobs in the BMW region is falling. I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister during the week on this issue and found that this pattern in new jobs created on a county by county basis is reflected by the IDA. There is a Government policy and strategy with regard to the BMW region and a 50% target for job creation, but when I tabled a question earlier in the session, the IDA was on the 38% mark. Is there concern in the IDA that it is not meeting the 50% target? Is there a specific plan in place to meet the 50% target or is it now an aspiration rather than an issue dealt with on day-to-day basis?

To fly the local flag, my frustrations with regard to the 12-year delay in the development of a technology park in Ballina are well known. We are nearly there but it is like a wedding — we have been nearly there so often at this stage that we will not believe it when it happens. Is there an update on the Ballina project? At this stage, it is beyond a joke.

I wish Mr. Dorgan success. He follows a very distinguished line of chief executives and I am sure Mr. O'Leary will continue that distinction.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

I thank Deputy Calleary for his remarks. Clearly, the investment by Baxter Healthcare is very positive because it will allow the company to move on and retrain workers for higher value activities which involve significant capital investment. This is not explicitly a new strategy on the part of the IDA. We are always wiling to support companies which need to make a transformation. Traditionally, investment and grant support tended to be related specifically to job creation because we had a serious unemployment problem. Now, we are about supporting transformation to higher levels and the sustaining of activities. We do not have a blank cheque book in this regard but seek to engage in a serious way with these great corporations, both at Irish and particularly corporate level, where the serious decisions are made and to encourage them to achieve the changes that are necessary to sustain existing activities here or move to advanced activities, as instanced in the annual report.

On how outspoken we are on infrastructure, I am sure the Deputy and the committee will understand ours is a marketing agency and that our job is to present the very best face of Ireland outside the country. The extent to which negative comment in Ireland is picked up in the international media and used against us by our competitors is a source of concern. Therefore, the IDA will not be explicit in criticising in public individual pieces of infrastructure. We work actively within the public system with all Departments, public authorities and agencies to achieve improvements. While an enormous amount has been achieved, clearly there is much to be done. This is the best way to achieve progress. We are certainly concerned about the way in which some well meaning and well intended comment nationally is picked up instantly through the media and used elsewhere.

On regional development, the number of jobs in various locations is set out in the annual report. We are always open and explicit on the issue. I would like to make a number of points in this regard. The number of jobs created is not the best measure of progress but it is an important one. The way in which we now compete for investment involves thinking in terms of what the investor is seeking. In the case of the most advanced investments, the investor is generally looking for a sizeable pool of experienced and highly skilled people. Investors tend to look to population centres of at least 500,000 people. They do not look at a town as the townspeople do. They are seeking a location where they will have access to 200 business graduates, 100 chemical engineers or whatever suits the range of skills required. Thus, a large population base is a priority.

This is the basis upon which we must tackle regional development. It is what underpins the national spatial strategy. Regional centres must be able to offer a significant depth of business expertise and a critical mass in terms of lawyers and accountants who understand the global markets. In addition, they must offer the infrastructure, including air, rail and road access, that can only be supported by a critical mass of people. I am unashamed in saying that regions must think and act regionally in terms of building gateways and linking hubs, county towns and other towns and villages to those gateways.

That is how the investor thinks when he or she is seeking the best location. Investors require the world class expertise and world class infrastructure that tend to congregate around cities. Competition for investment in Ireland, therefore, involves competing with city regions in Europe, Asia and the United States. Those city regions tend to define themselves as having a population of at least 1 million. In the case of London, for example, the population is as high as 10 million. We must approach the attempt to attract investment with this in mind.

We will succeed over time in lifting regions if there is a cohesive effort towards regional development. We have seen the success of that approach in Cork in this decade. In the course of the 1990s, Dublin took off because of the amount of investment it attracted. The capital was seen as by far the most attractive location in the State because of its universities, airport access and population of some 1.5 million. Cork has lifted itself in that way in this decade. So too has Galway because of the cluster of medical technology companies that have developed there. Many of the medical technology businesses we are encouraging to come to Ireland think first of Galway as a potential location.

We must ensure that Athlone, Mullingar, Tullamore, Sligo, Letterkenny-Derry, Dundalk, Waterford and Limerick can achieve success on a par with that enjoyed by Galway in the past ten years. Investors must be given reasons to locates in these gateway centres. Success in the gateways will lift the regions; that is the challenge in regional terms. One of the measures of success is job numbers, but that is a short-term indicator. We will not solve the problem of regional imbalance by trying to force an investor to go somewhere that is not suitable for the business in question. Success will only be achieved if the location works from the investor's point of view.

I share Deputy Calleary's frustration with the time it has taken to organise the purchase of the lands to which he referred in Ballina. That has been a disappointment to us and to the county council. However, I am hopeful we can make progress on this matter. There are other properties in Ballina that can be used to attract investment. The performance of Coca-Cola and Lionbridge Technologies and the long-term success ofHollister are useful benchmarks for us when trying to attract investment to the region.

We were cautioned by the Chairman to be brief and I will try to abide by that. I thank Mr. Dorgan for his presentation and I wish him well in his retirement. I wish Mr. O'Leary well in the difficult challenge that awaits him. Is it a new phenomenon whereby companies such as Abbott and Moffetts are, on the one hand, investing in various regional locations, while, on the other, contracting their operations? Moffetts is expanding into research and development but experiencing some difficulty because of the weakness of the dollar. Is it likely to become more common that companies will remain only in one location? Is a pattern developing in this regard?

There has been much debate about high-value jobs versus low-value jobs. Some of the foreign direct investment we have attracted has provided high-level jobs but there is also a significant level of investment in, for example, call centres and similar types of service sector jobs. Does Mr. Dorgan see those types of low-cost jobs as transient? I am concerned that they may represent a moveable feast and may not be as sustainable as manufacturing jobs, for instance.

How ready are our educational institutions for the new challenges we face? For example, the institutes of technology have been quick in the past to apply themselves to the needs of investors and employers and to produce competent workers. As we move towards attracting more high-end jobs, however, are failings in terms of fourth level education presenting significant problems for the IDA? It seems progress in this area is far less advanced than we would like it to be.

The IDA has a significant number of vacant premises. I appreciate the difficulty it faces in getting the balance right in this regard. It is preferable to have premises available and ready for businesses to move into, but, if there are too many, major costs are incurred. Is the IDA overstacked with properties or is Mr. Dorgan satisfied with the current situation?

I too welcome Mr. Dorgan. It was an even greater pleasure last week to welcome a major new company to the business and technology park in Carlow. The 170 jobs promised is an exciting prospect for the town. Like Deputy Morgan, I ask Mr. Dorgan to speak about the science and technology qualifications of graduates from our third level institutions. Are the numbers taking these subjects sufficient to support the cutting-edge technology companies, specialising in information technology, pharmaceuticals and so on, we are seeking to attract? We must ensure there are sufficient numbers of graduates emerging from universities and institutes of technology to cater for the needs of these terrific companies.

The document Mr. Dorgan circulated refers to "support of ecosystem" as one of the three essential criteria that enterprises must meet. This is something that is close to my heart. What is the IDA's understanding of support of ecosystem? I have my own interpretation but I would like to hear Mr. Dorgan's.

Are any distinguishing trends emerging in the types of companies seeking to locate in Ireland? "Pattern" is a banal word to use but I am interested to know whether there are any shifts in these trends.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

I thank the Deputies for their comments. Deputy Morgan asked whether companies tend to concentrate in one location. There does not seem to be any clear pattern in this regard. Abbott is operating in at least six locations in the State. Yesterday's announcement must be viewed in context. The company has two similar complementary plants and there was over-capacity given the market conditions. Hence, Galway lost out but Clonmel has been growing for the past year. One cannot draw any general conclusions from specific cases. All one can say is that companies feel the pressure to reassess continually what they are doing because of the relentless competition they face globally and the changing market conditions. The speed at which things now take place probably is striking because of the possibilities that arise through the opening up of so many locations around the world.

On the question of high-level jobs or low-cost jobs, Ireland will continue to support jobs at all levels. The more basic jobs will be sustained here, however, only if there is a particular tentacle to hold them. I will sum up this point by noting it is possible to sustain 100, 200 or 300 operative jobs if one can put ten, 20 or 30 designers or engineers beside them. That is more likely to achieve this outcome. Dell in Limerick, which has more than 3,000 people engaged in manufacturing, is a good example in this regard. It has added continually to the number of engineers and technically qualified people to drive efficiency and productivity continually in that plant and as a result, the jobs are sustained. Moreover, they also attract complementary service activities and to an increasing extent are getting involved in some development work. This will help to sustain the basic activities.

It is clear that manufacturing can be sustained in Ireland, although it will be distinguished increasingly by being science or technology-based. It will employ a higher proportion of technicians than basic operatives. More engineers and scientists will be involved and, in general, the work will be better paid. Interestingly, Deputy Mary White referred to the announcement last week by Merck Sharp & Dohme in respect of Carlow. In that case, an investment of €200 million supports 170 jobs. The equation of at least €1 million per head for an investment in manufacturing is not unusual and as a result, this will be sustainable.

On the question of educational institutions and science and technology graduates, the achievements of the education system in Ireland have been of considerable benefit to our ability to win investment over the years. Ireland has at present the highest endowment in the world of science and engineering graduates in the 20 to 34 year old age group. In other words, for every 1,000 people in Ireland in the 20 to 34 year old age group, approximately 16 are either science or engineering graduates. The European average is seven, while in the United States it is less than seven. France and Finland come closest to us. While there are hundreds of thousands of such graduates in China and India, in relative terms there are not as many as in Ireland.

The challenge for us is to sustain interest in science and technology on the part of students entering third level. After 2000, a significant drop-off occurred in those opting for computer science, information technology and software development because of a reaction by children and, probably, their parents to an apparent downturn. This reaction was mistaken because that sector is growing rapidly. In addition to maintaining the numbers entering third level, it will be very important for us to attract more of those third level graduates into fourth level in order that we will have more doctors of science, engineering and so on. At present, we are about average in the league table at fourth level, although we are ahead at third level in terms of numbers.

On properties, the manner in which the IDA has handled property has changed significantly over the decades. In the 1970s and into the 1980s, the IDA was obliged to be the ground breaker. It was obliged to take on investments, construct buildings and own buildings and locations. The private sector, I am glad to say, has taken on an increasing proportion and the IDA has been able to stand back. It is involved at present in developing parks in what we call strategic sites, that is, large parks that can attract the most utility-intensive investments and on which we invite the private sector to locate buildings. At present, the IDA owns 67 units, compared with 650 buildings as recently as 1998. We have been divesting buildings in the past ten years and have realised more than €110 million from the sale of buildings during that time. Those sales and that income largely have funded our continued investment in new parks and new sites nationwide.

Of the 67 buildings we own, 40 are occupied by client companies. Of the remaining 27, 11 are available for promotion because 16 are either sold or are awaiting completion of legal transactions. Moreover, in the 1980s we took on long leases on some buildings. We have 83 such buildings, of which 47 are occupied by client companies that pay commercial rents and of the remaining 36, 33 are available for promotion. The remaining three are either in the process of being leased or sold. While we intend to move those buildings on too, it is not always easy to so do because of the long lease commitments.

Deputy Mary White asked about a supportive ecosystem. Perhaps our definition is very broad relative to that of Deputy White. It pertains to everything in the environment around companies that supports them or with which they engage in whatever fashion. This includes the education system and how it meets their needs, similar or supporting businesses, all the business services, the public services and the operating environment. It is a very broad phrase. Every element of the ecosystem must be supportive for us to be competitive, however, and this is the challenge. Ireland is highly competitive in many ways because both public authorities and private businesses are responsive. They move quickly and are flexible, which constitutes a serious competitive advantage.

This is, in a way, what we sum up in our international advertising as the Irish mind. This refers to the agility, the connections and the relationships. These elements all form part of an Irish ecosystem that cannot be recognised as readily in many other countries and that investors see and recognise when they come here and, I am glad to say, for which they reference us. Craig Barrett, the chairman of Intel, has been quoted by Thomas Friedman in one of his books as saying, and I paraphrase, that Ireland is easy. It is easy to get things done. It is easy to get in and out. It is easy to deal with the Government. While sometimes we do not say that of ourselves, it is good that a global industry leader says of Ireland that it is easy and that things can be done here.

I welcome Mr. Dorgan and wish Mr. O'Leary well in his new position. Some of the previous speakers have raised many issues I wished to address and consequently they have been addressed. I refer in particular to the issue of people and skills.

Mr. Dorgan identified three areas that are highly important, namely, people skills, the operating environment and the low tax regime. He used the word "challenge" in respect of people skills. I agree it will be a challenge for us to ensure people are educated to possess the requisite skills. Deputy Morgan referred to the institutes of technology. I have been involved with this sector and I have been very pleased over the years by their responsiveness in developing courses to suit the needs of local employers. I come from Cork where this feature has been much in evidence. The institutes of technology interact and develop the skills pools very well. Skills must be developed to a high level in future, however, and more fourth level graduates will be needed.

The OECD PISA report was published yesterday on the mathematics and science levels of 15 year olds. The figures show every year that we do not appear to attract young people into science and such an attitude also comes from parents. At parent-teacher meetings one sees large queues for the business and the economics teachers. However, the teachers of science, chemistry, physics and mathematics do not hold the same attraction. This is a challenge for Ireland. Information technology companies have said they are encountering difficulty in recruiting people in this country and depend on the immigrant population. While such a development is positive in that it solves current needs, it is not sustainable in the long term. I agree with Mr. Dorgan that this is a challenge and he probably was being diplomatic in using such language.

I take his point on the operating environment and accept the IDA's purpose is to market Ireland and to sell it as an investment location. I have concerns about the level of development of infrastructure, particularly in respect of broadband. Although we intend to attract high-level investment, we are not at the races in international terms. We are in the process of rolling out broadband but are megabytes behind where we should be.

Could Mr. Dorgan expand on medical technologies? I have read a little bit about the area. The announcement yesterday by Abbott Laboratories in respect of the Galway plant was very disappointing but they have 3,500 positions here. This is an area in which there will be considerable development but, internationally, it is way behind what it could be. We are still doing things the same way they were done 20 or 30 years ago so there is a lot of scope for development. Does Mr. Dorgan regard it as one of the next areas for Ireland? Does he believe that if we had the educational skills, we could expand into this area?

Mr. Seán Dorgan

Yes.

I thank Mr. Dorgan and his colleagues for the presentation. In his opening remarks, he briefly mentioned China and India. From reading the report, I noticed that IDA Ireland has opened an overseas office in Shanghai. In the medium to short term, how does Mr. Dorgan see Ireland competing, particularly in China, and what is the role of IDA Ireland in that?

Would there be merit in opening an office in India in order to tap into what is a growing area, particularly in technology? India has taken over from us in software. I want to get an idea regarding both of those areas.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

Deputy Clune referred to the universities and the institutes of technology. The institutes of technology have been very influential in their responsiveness and their closeness to business needs in various locations. We could instance numerous investments that were won on the basis of that. I am also glad to say that the universities have been undergoing serious change in recent years. We will see the results of that in the next while.

The quality of teaching at second level in science is also very important and it is also important that we encourage good people into teaching science subjects at second level. I will invite Mr. Barry O'Leary to speak about medical technologies because he is one of the people in IDA Ireland who have achieved a great deal.

Perhaps I will deal with the issue of China and India. We see our role in our office in Shanghai as winning some portion of the Chinese investment that is starting to take place and is coming into Europe. A good deal of Chinese outward investment is investment in sourcing raw materials and parts of activities that support China's further growth, so they are investing around the world. In Europe, it is more likely to be in trading centres and headquarters, supporting sales into the European market, so that is what we are particularly targeting.

We are in the late stages of finalising the opening of an office in Mumbai in India and are at an advanced stage of selecting a suitable Indian national to run that office for us. Again, it is about capturing a proportion of Indian investment that is coming in to Europe. A few Indian companies are already buying some companies in Europe and, I understand, in Ireland. I am hopeful that we will see some result from that in the reasonably short term. I will invite Mr. O'Leary to speak about medical technologies.

Mr. Barry O’Leary

I will clarify a few things in respect of medical technologies. This area is quite wide in terms of the actual devices and products that it covers and is one in which we have been experiencing quite a lot of investment. Notwithstanding yesterday's announcement by Abbott Laboratories, if we look at developments earlier this year, we see Kinetic Concepts Inc. going into Athlone with 250 people, Teleflex Medical also locating in Athlone with about 150 people, Cordis — one of Johnson & Johnson's subsidiaries in the stent area — going into Cashel, Vistakon in Limerick spending about $100 million and, as Deputy Calleary mentioned earlier, the Baxter International Inc. announcement last week, so, overall, things are fairly buoyant. Yesterday was clearly not a good day. Looking at the future, more and more devices are being developed as people get older and as new markets open up in the Third World. Therefore, in the long term, the demand for medical technologies will be very high.

In particular, we have also had a lot of success in the pharmaceutical and biopharmaceutical area. A considerable amount of convergence will take place in this area. The devices and medicines sides will come together. Ireland is very well placed because we have nine of the top ten pharmaceutical companies in the world and 15 of the top 25 medical devices companies. Within that, one would take Abbott Laboratories and Johnson & Johnson as being companies that are involved in both areas, so we think there is long-term growth. We hope to have some significant new wins in that area over the next 12 months.

A few of my questions have already been answered, so I will not go back over them. Mr. Dorgan said that the issue of figures is not the only thing we have to go on. In the past three years — 2004, 2005 and 2006 — about 80,000 jobs have been created by the various agencies — IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and Shannon Development. However, nearly as many jobs — 70,000 — were lost. I appreciate that there is a net gain and that we are in a difficult time but will Mr. Dorgan comment on this? Is this the way it is going to be or does Mr. Dorgan expect the gap to get wider in terms of more gains versus losses?

Mr. Dorgan outlined the main reasons why companies choose to locate in certain locations but who makes the ultimate decision within the companies? Who does IDA Ireland target? Is it the top management, the chief executive or the employees? When county councils are chasing business, who does IDA Ireland mainly go after? I have an interest in this matter.

Mr. Dorgan mentioned negative comments in the media about infrastructure. This is a particular problem for those of us in the Opposition because part of our job is to be negative, as much as we hate it.

They are doing a very good job.

The members around me did a great job of being in opposition prior to 1997. However, it is a nuisance and is awkward for us to do. In a way, one is trying to highlight things that need to be fixed but one is conscious that this is also causing the problem. When IDA Ireland considers that this is being used abroad, what happens to that information? Does it bring it to Departments and highlight it to other agencies like the National Roads Authority? Does it put pressure on them through the information it is getting? Do they know it is causing trouble? It is also something on which we need to work. I always try to be negative in a constructive manner.

In respect of the fourth comment about the contribution charges and the various charges charged by each council, charges in the greater Dublin region are very high compared to those in outlying counties. They can affect a decision by a company to locate because the setting of costs can be very high if one looks at the contribution charges in Kildare and Meath compared with other places. Does it have an impact? The race generally evens out over a long period of time, so I assume it does not a major impact but could Mr. Dorgan tell me if it does?

Mr. Dorgan mentioned critical mass in respect of that, which is very important. What is the relationship between IDA Ireland and the planners in each of the counties? I have said here before that I do not get the impression that our planners are always tuned into the business world and to what is involved in business and employment. I do not feel they are sufficiently clued in when it comes to development plans and the zoning of land. What are Mr. Dorgan's views on IDA Ireland's links with the county councils?

In respect of the greater Dublin region and the national spatial strategy, we missed an opportunity to use the outer ring of Dublin as a springboard and to locate companies in there that could draw from Dublin and the regions beyond it as a balance.

I will not deny that this is my area. Apart from my local area of County Meath, I am talking about Wicklow, Kildare, Louth and so on. That could be a very successful area in which to operate. I do not believe this area was properly looked at in the national spatial strategy and we need to have a proper look at it in terms of business and other areas of development.

I am pleased to see something going into Carlow because for years, I drove past the lovely fancy gates of the IDA Ireland business and technology park and did not see enough facilities inside it. It was a nice thing to hear on the news last week.

Quinn Direct set up an operation in Navan, which is great. My only fear is that when one gets one success, one tends to relax and take the attitude since we have got something in one county, we can move on to the next. This could also happen in Carlow. When one looks at the number of visits to County Meath since Quinn Direct set up operations there, one can see that they are very low. I am concerned about that. They were low in the years prior to that compared to those of the counties around Meath, but they have become even lower because we received one success. One should use success to get more companies in.

A second question on the NEC site at Ballivor does not need to be answered now, but our guests mentioned that IDA Ireland will be getting out of owning assets. Perhaps this is a chance to buy another one. While it may not be a strategic area for IDA Ireland, there is a ready-made factory that could be easily sold on or used after being held by it for a number of months or years.

A company would not want to tell IDA Ireland that it will close in 12 months time because it would lead to employee unrest and so on, but we could sometimes pre-empt closures by retraining staff and being ready. It would be easier to do so in respect of mining, which involves resources. Does IDA Ireland receive word from companies of something coming down the line? If so, can we step in advance? IDA Ireland may not be able to save jobs, but people could be retrained.

We are discussing last year's report, but I have examined this year's figures. I welcome the fact that more than 50% of IDA Ireland's expenditure comes from its own income rather than Government hand-outs. This year's budget was almost €300 million and it is good that only €120 million had been spent by October. I presume much of that amount was spent in the last quarter. Will IDA Ireland's expenditure be less than budgeted? It looks healthy and I am sure large pay-outs were made this and last month.

I am not a member of the committee, but I am a Seanad spokesperson on trade and commerce, which is my interest. I thank Mr. Dorgan for his first class synopsis. I had not seen the report in advance, but it is excellent.

I will ask Mr. O'Leary four brief points. Regarding all-island development, what can we do to put pressure on the British Government to lower corporation tax in the North to 12.5% as opposed to 30%? There has been serious neglect on both sides of the Border because of the civil strife of the past 30 years. I am passionate about the Six Counties getting a 12.5% rate, but the prospect is not good.

County Donegal is a black spot, partly because of its isolation and a lack of interest during the civil strife. I go there and return regularly and there is a starkness that can be felt. Outside of Letterkenny and other urban areas, there is no sense of potential employment.

In my business career, I dealt with Shannon Airport and voted for the break-up of Aer Rianta because I know how entrepreneurial are the people of Shannon and Clare, as shown by history. What are business people's feelings on being unable to fly from Shannon to Heathrow? I spoke to Dr. Ed Walsh on this issue a number of times. People want to put jobs into areas with skills, large populations and good infrastructure.

Heathrow is the centre of the world in terms of being the world's first airport. What is the view of IDA Ireland on being unable to access it? Charles de Gaulle International Airport is being proposed, but losing the Shannon-Heathrow route is a tragedy. Why was Aer Lingus not made to hold onto one flight per day? I cannot believe it. Mr. Dorgan referred to spatial development and regional balance, but we seem to have dropped the ball regarding flights from Heathrow to Shannon, which are important if people want to move quickly or if, for example, heads of corporations are meeting at Heathrow.

There is a feeling in the south-east counties of Wexford and Waterford that they have not participated in the Celtic tiger to the same extent as the rest of the country bar the Border counties. Their statistics on employment, standards of living and education are not good. Just as Dr. Ed Walsh turning an institute of technology into the University of Limerick lifted the south-west to its current status, turning Waterford Institute of Technology into a first class university, including fourth level academics, would drive the south east, which is missing out vis-à-vis the rest of the country.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

I will try to address the number of items quickly. Generally, the job gains and losses situation has been positive for the past five years. In 2001, there was a significant net fall in numbers because of the bursting of the dotcom bubble and the slowdown in the US economy. Every year since, the net position of gains relative to losses has improved. We believe the situation is likely to continue, but given the prospect of the US and global economies slowing in the next year, there may be some setbacks. It is important that Ireland continues to stay competitive and to do all of the smart things that can position us for the future in the face of changes.

The value of jobs — how well paying and sustainable due to the required expertise they are — matters more than their numbers. If one were to examine the economy, one would see that, between 2002 and 2006, the number of people employed increased by 17%. Over a 15 year period, the number increased from 1.1 million to 2.1 million. One can say that foreign investment, while not making the difference directly, is a high value part that has generated many other activities.

Who we would go after in companies varies considerably. Every company has its own culture, operating methods and way of making decisions. The challenge for IDA Ireland is to get to know and understand companies, to build relationships with the people who matter therein, to understand and be ready for their needs and to show that Ireland's capabilities meet companies' needs at the point where the decision is being made. Often, decisions will be made at second or third level in a company. Occasionally, a CEO can be the final decider. So that we may make the appropriate connections and help people to make the right decisions, we will try to know and understand what and how the company thinks and who decides.

The Deputy raised the question of contribution charges on local authorities. A serious issue, it can be a painful point and, in some cases, lead to competitive disadvantages. We work well with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to have local authorities understand the significance of charges in the context of particular investments. We point out the extent to which IDA Ireland has made investments that should excuse a significant part of the local authority charge.

In general we have good relations with the planning authorities in various counties but inevitably there are differences between counties in the degree of understanding of business needs. The most successful counties, those that have attracted the most investment, are close to and understand business needs while taking care of the broader environmental and planning requirements also. These are important in a high value economy and society.

I understand the Deputy's point about the outer ring in Dublin. There is too much commuting into Dublin from adjoining counties. The amount of investment and employment in Blanchardstown, Leixlip and west Dublin makes a significant difference. What has held back investment moving further out is the quality of roads. An investor considering how quick he can get to the airport will tend to stay in Swords rather than half an hour up the road, which may not take him very far. We have seen progress with the M1 and the M4. The time to the airport is a significant factor, though not the only one.

Can IDA Ireland pre-empt closure? There are many cases where closure has been pre-empted, which no one has heard of, but not usually in the final few months when the matter is certain. Closure is pre-empted between two and five years beforehand when the Irish managers and teams, and corporate executives, understand the need to make a transition from what the plant is doing to what it should be doing in five or ten years' time. This happens in many cases, with IDA Ireland involvement. Our concern is to anticipate a number of years ahead rather than weeks or months.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

The timescale is too short. If one hears of a pending closure it is probably too late. The work should have been done three to five years earlier.

The case for Northern Ireland to have a similar tax rate is very clear. We will be the last people to influence the UK Government on that.

In fighting for it I sent a note to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the British Prime Minister. It is a serious matter for the whole island.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

County Donegal has taken a number of blows over the years, particularly with the loss of the clothing and textile sector in the 1990s. A major transformation has been achieved since then, largely located in Letterkenny. Over 1,000 are writing software or supporting financial services globally in Letterkenny today. No one was writing software in Donegal ten years ago and it is a phenomenal achievement. Great credit is due to the Letterkenny Institute of Technology and many other people. I do not like the words "black spot" being used about any location. The number of people at work in Donegal increased from 48,000 in 2002 to 57,000 in 2006, a major increase in employment in the four year period between the census. Donegal shows tremendous enterprise and the local authority and the county manager are responsive and encouraging of business.

The decision by Aer Lingus to end the service from Shannon Airport to Heathrow is an issue for business in the mid-west and west and is regrettable, as is the lack of a clear alternative. The south-east has lagged to some extent but there has been good investment in the past few years in Waterford, such as Genzyme Ireland, Servier and many others, and Wexford. I agree with the point made about the role of education, particularly third level education, but the south-east suffers from access difficulties. The most significant short-term development is the opening of the M9 motorway to Waterford as well as the continued improvement in the N11.

Deputy Chris Andrews must leave, so I will facilitate his contribution.

I thank Mr. Dorgan for his presentation, and congratulate Mr. Barry O'Leary on his new role. The delegation referred to our beneficial tax regime, which Europe has suggested it may seek to change to a common consolidated corporate tax base. Does Mr. Dorgan have a view on the impact this would have on job creation?

Mr. Seán Dorgan

The Commission's proposals on a common consolidated corporate tax base would not be helpful to Ireland, nor to Europe. There are significant questions over whether it will ever progress, partly because of the technical difficulties in aligning 27 national tax systems, winning support across Europe for a federal tax system when tax is so clearly an issue of national sovereignty and failing to realise that competition for investment is global and cannot be ring-fenced within a European framework. A country such as Switzerland is very aggressive in terms of tax competition and would not be constrained by common consolidated corporate tax base development. It is unlikely to happen, would not be good for Europe and, if it happened, would be a failure of Europe to recognise the global nature of competition.

I welcome the IDA Ireland delegation. Mr. Dorgan has north Cork connections and when he retires I would welcome him to the north Cork area to improve the situation, which concerns me. IDA Ireland has done great work in 12 years, with 2.2 million people employed in the workforce compared to 800,000, and 3.5% unemployed.

I am concerned about the regional programme, dealing with population imbalance. The delegation referred to industrial parks, some 30 or 40 miles from regional towns with an industrial past. There will be a shift in population, which is not good for rural Ireland. There is no point in hiding low skill, there are low skill Deputies who do not have any jobs. People of low skill are not being addressed and we will have such people no matter what education facilities or colleges we have. At present the construction industry is taking up the slack.

We have a lot of broadband but it is not proper broadband. In my area the Oireachtas broadband does not match the broadband of various companies supplying it.

IDA Ireland is very dependent on North America for industry in Ireland. It is the main source of industry. CRH employs the same number of people across the world as IDA Ireland supports. The delegation referred to China and India but not Malaysia. North American industry is conscious of counterfeiting, copying and stealing formulae. With regulation improving in these countries I can see north American industry moving to these countries because of the discipline and better regulation. Is this not a threat IDA Ireland policy of attracting industry to Ireland?

Mr. Barry O'Leary referred to the major involvement in the baby food, chemical and pharmaceutical industries in Ireland, which are protected in respect of formulae. For this reason, it will get tougher.

Would we be better off with a stand-alone fourth level college? We hear about all of the PhD courses in India, which is a country of which we heard little in this regard ten years ago. Today, it has high educational values. We do not have a stand-alone PhD college here. I am aware it would put pressure on the education budget but do we need one if we are to compete in the market which is now emerging?

The food industry has been one of the main employers on the island of Ireland. However, for some time we have not seen a new food industry from North America, Europe or anywhere else. Ireland was an attractive site in the past for this industry. I wish to make that comment but I do not wish to dwell on the past. I wish Mr. Dorgan well on his retirement and I will welcome him back to north Cork from where his ancestors came. I could state more good news from my point of view about them but we will leave it for another day. I wish Mr. Barry O'Leary success and also Ms Eileen Sharpe who we have not seen here before.

Do not blame her.

I sympathise with Mr. Dorgan in his efforts. I worked with him in a small capacity with the Minister and previously as a member of Cork County Council on a visit to California with regard to Burns Electronic which had stated it would leave Cork. I was new to politics at the time, Brendan Corish's son was also there and we were rather nervous.

I recognise the hard work done by Mr. Dorgan. It is a different story in Ireland because people do not understand this. I must adhere to their demands and I make this point coming from a rural area. Average sized regional towns such as Youghal, Mitchelstown and Mallow have lost out and confidence must be instilled in them again. The retail sector suffers because of the lack of jobs in those towns. When people must move out to work it takes from the disposable income. These are the issues. Mr. Dorgan knows my views on this because it has become a bit of a rhyme with me.

I missed part of the meeting but I watched it on the monitor. The interaction between IDA Ireland officials and the committee was an education for me. This is the first time I experienced this and it is extremely worthwhile. If I may be parochial, I represent the constituency of Kildare North. IDA Ireland has been good to Kildare particularly places such as Leixlip and Maynooth and many jobs have been brought to the county. However, it was mentioned in passing that closeness to an airport was an important consideration in location. Baldonnel could be developed as an airport. I do not know whether the delegation is allowed to comment on this. It would be worthwhile if people such as those in the delegation commented on the viability of a place such as Baldonnel.

This morning, it took me more than two hours to get from where I live in Kildare to here. Commuting is a serious problem, and Kildare is only a short distance away. I know people who commute from the BMW region and who leave at 6 a.m. or 6.30 a.m. Parts of Kildare could be targeted in which the IDA should be able to provide jobs to prevent commuting into Dublin. Instead of having park and ride facilities in Kildare we should encourage the people of Dublin to come to Kildare to work. We can provide business and industry there. This would enable people come to Kildare to work and have the park and ride facilities in Dublin. Alternatively, they could walk.

I was very interested in what was said regarding the involvement of managers and officials in County Donegal. At a national level, how does Mr. Dorgan find that local authorities and IDA Ireland work as a body? Are communications adequate to meet the needs of the counties?

I thank Mr. Dorgan and his officials for coming here today. I thank him for his stewardship of IDA Ireland for many years. I welcome Mr. Barry O'Leary to the post, and I will not forget Ms Sharpe who is based in Athlone. Mr. Kevin McCarthy and Mr. Frank Conlon are also excellent officials and do a good job. I acknowledge Teleflex is coming to Athlone. It is important because we suffered a number of losses there in this regard. I agree that the quality of jobs is important as is sustainable employment. High-quality jobs is where this game is at. People dropping out of the tax net is a reflection of low-quality jobs of a short-term nature which do not pay well.

As a committee we will go on the road four times per year, a bit like IDA Ireland. We will go to east Cork in mid-January and we will focus on the Amgen issue. We will also go to Carrick-on-Suir which, despite efforts, has a sustained level of unemployment above the national average. We may meet with IDA Ireland officials in east Cork and I wish to alert the delegation to this so it does not surprise them.

Broadband is a major issue, particularly in rural areas. This may be a negative with regard to achieving success in these areas. It is important to bring jobs to the people rather than have people coming in and having congestion. It takes an hour and a half to two hours to do something which should be achievable in half an hour. The delivery of broadband and connectivity is patchy and e-commerce and telecottaging is important for rural areas. I appreciate IDA Ireland considers the bigger picture but it must also examine the patchwork quilt of development. The managing director of eBay contacted us and made his views known. I believe the delegation is aware of them. We will examine this matter and I would like to know the views of IDA Ireland on this.

I am not from the area affected by the Asahi plant issue. I believe it is a large area approximately eight or nine miles from Ballina. Does IDA Ireland have a focus on this? I support Deputy English with regard to Ballivor. NEC provided a large number of jobs, not only for people from Meath but also for those from Cavan, Westmeath and across to Offaly and Longford. Three, four and five members of the same family were employed there and it went back generations to fathers and mothers. They are still trying to recover. Will IDA Ireland examine the Ballivor area?

It would be remiss of me not to focus on Westmeath and I am aware of successes in Athlone. Is Mullingar a forgotten area? I hope not and I do not think so. Westmeath County Council has been facilitative and pro-active and IDA Ireland is aware of this. We have a 78 acre patch and planning permission has been sought for two large factories. Mullingar is an ideal location for pharmaceuticals and is linked to Athlone which has one of the finest institutes of technology in Europe. Professor O'Cathain is extremely proactive there.

I would be less than honest if I did not state that Mullingar feels left behind. Members of the delegation may have read comments I made. I am the type of person that states matters to one's face and this is how I work. I still acknowledge what IDA Ireland does. It is not easy as we have a more competitive global environment and I accept this. However, Mullingar is ideal as it is centrally located with excellent facilities, a co-operative local authority, a good road network and a tremendous turn-around time. An airport has been proposed for the Offaly-Westmeath border at Horsleap and one is available at Abbeyshrule on the Westmeath-Longford border. Mullingar, Athlone and Tullamore make up a gateway-status triangle. Surely, we now have the necessary population mass. We are serviced by high quality graduates from Athlone in terms of pharmacists, engineers and others but Mullingar feels left behind. I speak on behalf of the people of the town rather than to make a political point. It is important we ensure people get opportunities but the facilities have to be provided. Can Mr. Dorgan update us on the provision of the two factory units and on what is likely to come to Mullingar?

Mr. O'Leary and Ms Sharpe will be acutely aware of the drive we have in that regard and I am sure that when they saw me in the chair they anticipated me raising this issue. I commend them on the work they have done in sometimes difficult and competitive environments. They have been more than frank this morning and the good exchange of views we had bodes well for the future.

I represent an all-island electorate and continuously travel the country to visit every county, so I have a good feeling for the current atmosphere. County Donegal is a black spot. It is a large county and, if I was Mr. O'Leary, I would go hell for leather to help its people. I visited the county last Thursday. I am also aware of the anxiety in Shannon because I know that area well.

I produced a research document over the past few days based on my experience on the ground in the south east. The latest regional income and GDP figures indicate that disposable income in the south-east region, including counties Carlow and Kilkenny, is the lowest among all regions in the State. Mr. O'Leary should investigate in particular counties Waterford and Wexford because the people there are conscious of their low levels of income and the shortage of jobs.

The Senator can furnish her report to Mr. Dorgan.

I am the spokesperson on these matters in the Seanad. Something has to be done for the south-east region. The IDA should put its shoulders to the task of upgrading Waterford Institute of Technology to university status, turn the heat up in respect of Heathrow and give special attention to Donegal and the Border regions. I am not being cheeky when I urge Mr. O'Leary to conduct a detailed tour. There is nothing like being on the ground for knowing what is happening.

I thank Mr. Dorgan and his team for coming and for the good work it does. We hear about the global climate, the shifting sands and moving up the value chain but what resources has the IDA with regard to small and medium enterprises in need of support and what supports are available to nurture people with innovative ideas? I have been told that investors do not want to know innovators until their products become successful and that there are a lot of closed doors in the early stages.

Am I correct in saying the IDA has created about 135,000 jobs in Ireland? What type of cost evaluation has been done on the creation of these jobs? Is a yardstick used by the IDA to calculate the cost of creating X number of jobs?

In respect of company closures, has the IDA a rapid response unit to evaluate the companies concerned and work on finding other opportunities? While reference was made by members to a certain pharmaceutical plant, a large financial institution is also in serious trouble. I am unsure whether anybody has made contact with this financial institution or if any supports are in place for it. The Irish Financial Services Centre has created a significant number of jobs.

If Senator White gets her way or if Gordon Brown has any sense — I know what I would do to attract enterprise if there was a 30% corporation tax on one side of a line and 12.5% on the other — what proposals would Mr. Dorgan have on an all-Ireland authority? Should we be innovative in that regard? Mr. Dorgan may also wish to comment on the recent article by the chairman of Ulster Bank.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

I thank Deputies and Senators for their contributions. The IDA appreciates the support it receives across the political system and we value the fact that we can discuss issues in open session here and privately in other settings.

I am aware of Deputy Ned O'Keeffe's views on the regional impact of investment and conscious of the changing nature of food and other industries in various towns. The Deputy referred to Youghal, which has taken a number of blows over the past ten years. As I said when the Deputy brought Youghal Chamber to meet me, rather than thinking of Youghal and similar towns as locations, an investor will think of the economic corridor between Cork and Waterford, so we will use the attractions of that corridor to land the investment in these towns. The challenge, however, is to see beyond the confines of the town so that the investor is persuaded of what can be found among a population of more than 500,000 rather than one of 20,000 people. We recognise that with the changes in Ireland over ten or 20 years, a different level of skill is being sought by some investors and there is a need to address the skill levels available for operatives or the unskilled. FÁS has done a great deal of good work on that. We recognise that some of the investments we need to bring in will pick up those skills. As I said earlier, they are likely to be supported by technical or engineering expertise but will not need to be in every member of the workforce.

There is an issue of availability in some cases, but also the demand for advanced broadband. From a business perspective in landing a particular investment there is not an issue about broadband availability in all the main centres in Ireland. There are some issues on the backhaul costs from regional locations into Dublin. The only substantial issue that has not been cracked is home broadband throughout the country. That is an important part of a modern knowledge economy. There are both supply and demand issues, and there may not be any simple, short-term solutions.

Deputy Ned O'Keeffe referred to the fact that many new countries such as China and India are improving their protection of intellectual property and that will create further competition for us. The challenge for us is to be ahead of that. Two investments in the last year are interesting although they are small in job numbers. One is Intel's research centre for independent living, which is an attempt to find how Intel can be positioned in digital medicine and how the power of information communications technology can be used to support old people for independent living as they age. It is interesting that Intel brought that into Ireland and is using researchers in a number of Irish colleges to advance it. The second, announced a few weeks ago, is Microsoft's investment of at least €500 million and closer to €1 billion in a data centre of over 500,000 sq. ft. in Grange Castle, which will employ ten or 12 people. That is not significant for the jobs involved but because Microsoft has chosen to invest €1 billion in Ireland to underpin its existing activities and to provide for its future. It can do that only because telecommunications connectivity out of Ireland is phenomenally good. There was no direct IDA financial support, although we helped Microsoft understand how all its needs could be met in Ireland. It is a good example of how a high value investment with few jobs is underpinning our future nationally in this area of digital media and software.

Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to commuting as an issue and it clearly is a challenge to many people's quality of life that they have to face the daily hassle of commuting into centres. We are keen to see more investment outside Dublin, particularly in the mid-east, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow, rather than Dublin. The challenge is the investors' needs and their perception. I have no particular view on whether that might be helped by developing Baldonnell as an alternative airport.

We have good relations with local authorities generally and we put great emphasis on developing those relationships to help them understand investors' needs and what can be done to build up the chances for various centres to improve. This is a significant part of Ms Sharpe's work. I am interested that the Chairman is going to visit a number of locations. He mentioned Carrick-on-Suir and one of the interesting developments is that a son of Carrick-on-Suir, Mr. Johnny Ronan, who has been successful in private development, has worked with us to develop privately owned lands near the town with the possibility that it might attract significant investment over the next number of years. We are keen to see investment go into locations such as Killala, which has the Asahi plant, or Bellivor, where there are good facilities. The number of investments of that type coming into Europe, never mind into Ireland, is much smaller than it was 20 years ago, and we must recognise that. However, we will go out and look for any that can be won.

On a day such as this, after yesterday's announcement of the closure of the Abbott plant, there is a feeling that we have taken a bad blow and might not recover. However, Irish history over the last 20 years is littered with bad days of apparently bad blows. The closure of Digital in Galway approximately ten years ago was seen as a really bad blow at the time, but it unleashed a phenomenal range of management talent and entrepreneurship in Galway. A significant part of Galway's success today was built on the back of that. In the late 1990s Clonmel took two successive blows with the closure of the Digital plant and, a short time later, Seagate. However Clonmel is thriving today on the back of further investments, first from Guidant and then from Boston Scientific and Abbott's vascular business.

We need good weather.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

Mullingar is not forgotten and it will gain from the much better road access. The fact that it is within an hour of Dublin Airport is significant. However, as I said earlier, we must have the whole of the midlands thinking and working together because today the four midland counties have a population of 250,000 and the aim is to grow that to a third of a million by 2025. That will be done by attracting good business and building the local and regional infrastructure and the connections between the three gateway towns. On the particular park in Mullingar we have spent approximately €2.5 million on site developments there and have submitted a planning application for a 26,000 sq.ft. advance office building and expect construction to commence early in 2008.

That is a good Christmas present for the Chairman.

Mr. Seán Dorgan

We will act quickly on that.

Senator Callely asked about the input with small and medium enterprises. We deal with the overseas companies and we aim to get the best of the new companies internationally. Enterprise Ireland has a good range of programmes and supports for indigenous companies.

I dealt with closures earlier. The issue is not how one responds to a crisis but how one positions a multinational subsidiary well in advance of any crisis. Irish managers have done that well. An all-Ireland promotion of tourism has worked well, but I would like to leave it to politicians to decide how it might progress in the development and investment field.

I thought Mr. Dorgan would do so, and I think Senator Callely knew that too. We have had a long day. I thank Mr. Dorgan, Mr. O'Leary and Ms Sharpe for a frank and useful discussion and exchange. I thank all the members who also participated very fully. We have had two hours of fairly intense cross-examination, taking in various points. Members have put forward various views and although Mr. Dorgan is "taking leave" at the end of this month, Mr. O'Leary and his colleagues will take on board a number of issues that have been raised by Deputies Ned O'Keeffe and Clune and Senator Mary White, among others. They all had very strong views made in a very constructive way. I hope the delegation will take all of these points, including my own, on board.

I look forward to developments in Mullingar in 2008 and I hope I am not abusing my position to ask that something will happen in Mullingar in 2008. We have been a long time waiting and extremely patient. We in the midlands salute the work of IDA Ireland. I take the point that it is important that the critical mass is evident in the midlands and that we should work together rather than be seen to compete against each other. That is very important.

This debate has been very useful. I thank the delegation for coming forward and I wish Mr. Dorgan well in his retirement from this role. I am sure he will partake of other activities in 2008 and beyond. I hope he enjoys good health in his retirement. I thank also my colleagues for attending.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.30 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 19 December 2007.
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