Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 May 2009

Pharmaceutical Industry: Discussion with IPHA.

I draw attention to the fact that members of the committee enjoy absolute privilege but that same privilege does not extend to witnesses appearing before the committee. I remind committee members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We have received the IPHA's written presentation, so I invite the delegation to summarise it.

Ms Anne Nolan

My colleague, Mr. Gerald Farrell, will make the presentation.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

I thank the Chairman and members for the opportunity to present to the committee.

The Irish Pharmaceutical Healthcare Association, IPHA, represents international research-based pharmaceutical companies which are responsible for developing, manufacturing and bringing innovative medicines to the Irish market. Our presentation this morning will focus on the role and contribution of our industry to the Irish economy and on the issues of concern to us at this time.

Ireland is one of the leading locations for the pharmaceutical industry in Europe. In 2008 two out of every five pharmaceutical jobs created in Europe were in Ireland. The industry has been one of the principal contributors to the growth of the Irish economy in recent years. In 1973 as the country joined the then Common Market the sector employed fewer than 2,000 people and exports amounted to less than €100 million per annum. The sector now employs 24,500 directly with an equivalent number employed in other businesses which provide goods and services to it. In 2008, pharmaceutical net exports exceeded €16.7 billion making Ireland the largest net exporter of pharmaceuticals in the world. Using the broader pharmachem measure, exports exceeded €44 billion, or nearly 50% of all exports from the country.

One hundred and twenty major companies have manufacturing operations in Ireland, including 13 of the top 15 worldwide, and the total replacement value of the investment by the sector in the Irish economy exceeded €40 billion. Almost €7 billion has been invested in the past nine years in a period when job growth in the sector has averaged 1,000 annually.

The industry is the largest contributor to corporation tax, and total tax receipts from it amount to approximately €3 billion annually. The industry in Ireland comprises a mix of European, American and Japanese companies. Originally the industry was largely involved in producing active ingredients in bulk for export to other countries to be processed into finished products such as tablets, capsules and so on. Subsequently, plants were set up to produce the finished products here and in recent years several companies have established significant biotech operations. Companies have also set up research centres and become involved in joint research projects with Irish universities.

In the late 1960s the Irish State identified the pharmaceutical sector as one that it wanted to attract to Ireland. It sought through its education, taxation, labour and health policies to ensure Ireland's attractiveness as a location for the industry. A crucial element in that success story was the State's willingness to engage in dialogue with the pharmaceutical sector, to seek mutually beneficial solutions to any difficulties which arose and to negotiate with a keen focus on the consequences of any decisions. The State has negotiated a series of agreements with the pharmaceutical industry on the supply of medicines to the health services. These agreements have ensured that patients can access medicines in a timely manner, that the State receives good value for money and that the industry has a stable framework within which it has been able to dramatically increase its contribution to the economy.

Continuation of the agreement system in the supply of medicines plays an important role in ensuring that Ireland continues to be seen as a State which takes a balanced view and one which the industry should seriously consider as a location for further investment. However, we live in challenging times, old certainties have been swept away on a tide of economic turbulence and, now more than ever, it is essential that we adopt a calm, rational approach. Our focus must remain on the achievement of long-term objectives. We must not let immediate concerns, no matter how pressing, lead to the adoption of initiatives which seem attractive but which could undermine our chances of achieving our long-term objectives. It has been the willingness of successive Governments to take the long-term view and to work creatively with the pharmaceutical industry that has delivered so much for Irish patients and the economy in the past 40 years.

The central mission of the pharmaceutical industry is the development of innovative therapies which help people live longer, healthier and more productive lives. Since 1990, more than 300 completely new medicines have been developed by our industry to address 150 conditions ranging from those which affect millions to those affecting just one in a million. Many of those medicines are manufactured in Ireland.

The pharmaceutical industry can only source the large sums needed to invest in such work if it can be reasonably certain that where it achieves success it will ultimately be rewarded for its endeavours. Notwithstanding that, we recognise that new therapies put pressure on State budgets, particularly in these strained financial times, and we understand the need for optimal efficiency and cost effectiveness in the State's expenditure on medicines. To that end, IPHA entered into negotiations with the HSE in 2006 the upshot of which was a four year agreement which will deliver, through a series of price cuts by companies from our sector, savings in the order of €300 million in the medicines bill. As the committee will appreciate, these concessions were onerous for the industry but they were offered on the basis that the agreement would provide a stable framework for the following four years, and it was made clear by the Government at the time that it was "the first in a series of negotiations agreed by the Cabinet Committee on Health to examine all aspects of the drug delivery system, from the manufacturer to the patient, in order to achieve greater value for money from the operation of the drugs schemes, consistent with patient safety and continuity of supply."

It has been noted by independent experts that the agreement is likely to deliver more in savings than alternative strategies proposed back in 2006 such as generic substitution. Under a system of generic substitution pharmacists would be able to change a doctor's script without his or her express permission. Such a development would not be in the interests of patient care nor would it result in a more efficient or cost effective health care system. Enhanced patient involvement in the choice of medicines for a particular condition is an explicit objective of our agreement with the HSE. It recognises that it is best for this to be exercised in consultation with the doctor who has no commercial interest in the medicine which the patient receives rather than with the pharmacist who clearly has.

The Pharmacy Review Group concluded in 2003, "[T]hat there should be no beneficial ownership or business interest of any kind between dispensing and prescribing". As recognised by groups such as the Irish Medical Organisation, which also opposes the proposal, it would end the separation between the role of prescribing and that of dispensing which has served health professionals and patients so well for many years. There is already a serious problem of patients not complying with their medication. This problem, which has been estimated to occur in as many as 50% of patients, could be exacerbated by a situation where a patient is presented with medicines of a different shape or colour, or in different packaging from that which they know. We saw late last year, in the controversy over medical care eligibility, the extent to which elderly patients in particular can become very concerned about any changes in respect of the arrangements for the supply of their medicines.

The association understands the need for the State to achieve further savings in the medicines bill and believes that the introduction of European pricing norms throughout the supply chain, as has already happened in the case of the ex-manufacturer price, could yield significant savings for the taxpayer. Currently Irish wholesalers and pharmacists enjoy some of the highest margins in Europe but they have utterly failed to produce a single euro of savings over and above those achieved under the IPHA agreement.

A greater emphasis on self-care and on the appropriate use of self-medication could also yield savings. Any suggestion or expectation that there are further savings to be gleaned at this time from IPHA members or any ambiguity on this point would send a very negative signal to those in our corporate boardrooms who make decisions about investments in Ireland.

Medical innovation has been vastly important in the past in delivering better health outcomes. There is every sign that it will be at least as important in the future. New technologies hold out the possibility of a major improvement in the efficiency of pharmaceutical research over the next few years. That, in turn, could deliver significant reductions in the cost of developing new drug treatments. This would be a major benefit to health care delivery systems, facilitating the development of more new therapies or lower costs. Such benefit will, however, only be obtained if research and development is appropriately rewarded in the marketplace through adequate patent protection and fair selling prices.

There is a risk that the full benefits of this opportunity will be missed because of short-term concerns to reduce health care costs. It is therefore vital that any reforms that are undertaken in the Irish health services should both foster innovation and speed its application in all areas where there will be benefits to health outcomes. An important aspect in the development of the pharmaceutical sector, which has helped significantly to boost its contribution to the economy, has been the success of the sector in diversifying the nature of its investment in Ireland from the original bulk active plants to higher value work. The maintenance of a culture of support for innovation is crucial to the success of such a move up the value chain.

The 21st century has brought about the dawn of the knowledge-based economy. To compete successfully in this changing world, Ireland needs to focus on areas where it can provide a world-class service. Clinical research is one such area. Clinical trials are an essential part of the development of new medicines. Clinical research programmes are international in nature — just like any other inward investment, Ireland has to compete with other countries for its share of international research funding. In particular, Irish subsidiaries of pharmaceutical companies have to compete with sister subsidiaries in other countries, increasingly with those in central and eastern Europe for clinical trials.

For Ireland to achieve world leader status in clinical research, a number of key initiatives need to be undertaken. In particular, we need a clinical research supremo in the Department of Health and Children, along the lines of the UK's director of NHS research and development, who has the power to remove the roadblocks and create and deliver a research strategy for health in Ireland.

If these steps are not taken, not only will Ireland fail to attract significant new trials but it will also see existing levels of trials put in jeopardy. Innovation and research and development activities will become the key drivers in bringing Ireland's pharmaceutical industry to its next level of competitiveness in what is truly a global industry. Ireland has the potential to be a world class hub for the conduct of internationally recognised clinical research that not just benefits the economy but patients all over the world by providing new and better treatments.

By building on Ireland's success as a pharmaceutical manufacturing base, by building on our technical capabilities and our skilled labour force, we can move beyond a manufacturing-led economy and reinvent ourselves as a truly knowledge-based economy. It is crucial that State funds be spent efficiently, never more so than at a time when such funds are limited. The health services — a major recipient of State funds — are a good example of the need to encourage greater efficiency. Expensive secondary care is overburdened and there is a need to develop primary care and health promotion initiatives to ensure that illness can be prevented or dealt with at the lowest appropriate level. For example, there is a need for a major investment in primary care, enabling an upgrading and expansion of the range of services offered through doctors' surgeries and primary care teams. This would require additional resourcing in terms of staffing and equipment. The development of such a network would give patients access to more services locally and free up hospitals to treat more serious cases.

Another initiative which would be worth pursuing would be an enhanced role for community pharmacy. As noted by the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland, most jurisdictions, including the UK, are utilising evidence-based approaches in the reform of their services, with pharmacy being seen to have increasing potential to support home care, self-care and effective care at the lowest levels of cost and complexity. This would help to remove some of the pressure from a busy surgery. The Association of the European Self-Medication Industry, AESGP, has estimated that savings of over €75 million could be achieved in Ireland every year if self-care was more widely adopted and patients encouraged to take greater responsibility for their everyday aches and pains themselves, seeking the advice of their local pharmacist where appropriate. The savings could be put to better effect elsewhere in the health care system.

Ireland can successfully compete in the years ahead but to do so it needs to ensure, as policy makers did in the 1960s, that it does so within a clear policy framework. The IPHA strongly believes that the "Innovation Island" envisaged in the document Building Ireland’s Smart Economy, published late last year, can be created here in Ireland. To do so it is essential that an industry-State partnership, focused on the long term, be maintained. Words about wanting to foster innovation must be matched to a system which continues to reward innovation.

At a time when the international pharmaceutical industry has become increasingly disillusioned by the attitudes of many European governments to the sector, it has increasingly looked to Ireland as a country which particularly welcomes our industry, which truly understands its needs and which is willing to work in real partnership with it. At a time of economic turmoil, the maintenance of a constructive relationship between the industry and the Irish State can help secure further investments for the country and help significantly in the achievement of the recovery for which we all so fervently hope.

I thank Mr. Farrell for his comprehensive presentation. He referred to an agreement with the HSE for the industry to reduce the cost of medicines to consumers by €300 million over four years from 2006. Have the reductions filtered down to consumers yet? We have debated the cost of medicines on many occasions in the past two years.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

There are two ways by which medicines are distributed. In the GMS scheme patients do not pay but where patients do pay for their prescriptions this lowers the price of medicines and the reduction should be passed on to the consumer.

Has it been passed on? Have the delegates monitored the situation?

Ms Anne Nolan

There is no reason to believe it has not been passed on.

Mr. Farrell referred to generic substitution. How can the use of generic drugs be facilitated? It is a means of reducing the costs of medicines.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

There is a difference between generic prescribing and generic substitution. In the former case, the doctor writes the name of the drug generically, rather than use the brand name. The pharmacist is free to dispense whatever brand he or she thinks appropriate. We have issues with doctors writing a brand name and pharmacists substituting a generic drug. The patient should make the decision in consultation with his or her doctor. In this way, patients know what they are getting and there are no issues with replacement prescriptions with a different label. That raises compliance issues and it upsets people. Generic prescribing is different from generic substitution, but people often confuse the two.

Can a pharmacist substitute a generic drug?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

Yes, if it is written as a generic. That is not substitution and it is a different matter if the brand name is written.

The drug should be prescribed directly by the doctor. Is that accepted by the industry?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

The IMO believes doctors should decide what medication a person should be on.

Ms Anne Nolan

The issue of increasing generic prescribing is a matter for the State and the medical profession. The industry would have no issues with that, as long as a free market was allowed to operate and there was a level playing pitch as regards the prescribing of branded versus generic products, with no perverse incentives for one as against the other.

Would the State benefit in terms of the cost of medicine if the prescription of generic drugs was encouraged?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

The main benefit to the State would accrue from the recoupment of the benefits of drugs prescribed. That is what our agreement has done. We have reduced our prices for generic medicines by 35% so it does not matter what generic is written. That 35% comes off the top line and it is reimbursed at the 35% reduction. That has delivered it. It is more complicated in other systems where it might be done at the pharmacy level and then the benefit might not necessarily go back to the State. That is the value of what has happened.

Our agreement is a supply agreement. It is important that we can access medicines when they are brought into the country. Many people talk about generic markets. The United States and other such countries are big. I have used the analogy previously that if one ends up with a truly generic market where it is a free-for-all, one can end up having problems with supply. Ireland is a small country and if there were sales of €10 million for a drug, and that drug was reduced by 90%, which can happen, suddenly one is down to €1 million. One has five or six companies competing for that market. The result is that it would become uneconomic and companies would begin to delist those drugs. I have seen that happen in the United Kingdom where I worked previously. One can end up with one or two drugs and no choice for the patient. It is important that both the manufacturers and the State receive a benefit because if drugs become uneconomic then they get delisted, as happens in other countries.

How were the savings of €300 million by the Irish Pharmaceutical Healthcare Association achieved? Was it through a reduction in costs or profits? If it was that easy to reduce the cost of drugs by €300 million over four years why could it not have been done previously? Was the State paying inflated prices?

Ms Anne Nolan

It was simply done by reducing the price of off-patent products, and in so doing, reducing the profitability of the industry. It was done in two phases in the past two years. Initially, there was a 20% price reduction in off-patent products followed by a further 15% earlier this year.

Was that set against European prices?

Ms Anne Nolan

The price of products placed on the market here are set against a basket of nine countries, including Spain, the United Kingdom, Denmark, Germany and France.

Were prices higher prior to the agreement?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

There are two aspects to the matter. Our price is set for a basket of products. The thinking about the price the pharmaceutical manufacturers receive is unclear. Our price is set by the Government based on an average of nine European countries. Spain is one of those countries. We think it is a fair price. That is the basis on which the generic prices were set. We agreed that we would reduce the price of generic drugs so that the money could be recycled to provide newer medicines for patients. That is part of the need for innovation. The bill to the State has not reduced but that €300 million has moved from older medicines to newer ones such as cancer drugs. That was part of what the Health Service Executive wanted to do and it has worked well.

We were not paying over the odds, we were paying the European average. We took a hit on the price. Our profits went down. The feeling was that we were willing to step up to the plate to do our bit and be transparent about it. The hope was that it would be recycled into newer, more innovative products. We believe that is the case.

The witnesses are welcome. On the matter of generic substitution, the motivation appears to be a reduced cost to the State and consumers who pay for their own medicines. To be motivated to do it there must be a serious gap between the generic costs and those produced by the members of the associations present. Is there a significant price differential?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

The vast majority of generic drugs are 1 cent cheaper than the branded generic on the top line. If one looks at the price to——

The prices have stayed low on substitution drugs versus the branded drugs. Is Mr. Farrell saying the difference is only 1 cent?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

On many of them. The price has reduced by 30%. In many cases generic companies reduced their prices by 1 cent more.

Therefore, there is not a 30% gap.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

When we get a product we have exclusivity on it for 15 years, or beyond that in some cases. When the exclusivity licence expires anyone else can manufacture the product. The product then becomes a generic and other companies are free to make it and sell it to the public. We reduced the price of our branded product by 35% in the past two years. The generic manufacturers reduced their prices also to slightly below that. The savings are not as big as people believe. From a State perspective one needs to look at the top line price. If one goes further down one gets more savings. The price of medicines is not just based on our part of the supply chain. There are other parts of it that have a role to play. We sent that data to the committee previously. It is based on the mark up for wholesalers and at pharmacy level, which drive the costs also.

Mr. Farrell's argument on substitution appears to be theoretical in the sense that he said it is not in the interest of the patient. I challenge what he said about the idea that somebody could change a script is as important as he suggests. The other point he made was about different shapes and colours.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

According to research elderly people do not like their medicines changed. They know the box and the colour of the tablet and where it has come from. The question is whether there is a financial incentive to change that script. If one is getting bonus deals at a pharmacy level then one can have financial reasons for changing the script as well as medical reasons.

Is Mr. Farrell questioning the motivation of the pharmacists?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

I do not question the motivation, I say it is a fact.

It is a possibility.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

Pharmacists are commercial organisations and they are entitled to make their own profits. We are not here to lecture them on how they do that.

Does Mr. Farrell consider his members have taken significant cuts in terms of costs whereas wholesalers and pharmacists have done nothing?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

There has not been any reduction in either of those parts of the supply chain. Senator Ryan is aware that there was an attempt to reduce the wholesaler margins and that did not work. The issue will be addressed again. That was part of the deal. We said we would go to the table with our reductions but, clearly, we expected other parts would give up some of that as well. We believe patients should get value for money.

The pharmaceutical industry has played its part but other parts of the supply chain have not.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

People say Irish medicines are so expensive because of the manufacturer's price. My price is set as a basket of nine countries. It is the average price. Spain is one of those countries. If medicines seem to be more expensive here than in other places, there may be other factors. We are getting a fair and average price. Other parts of the supply chain have a role to play in it. That is what is driving up private scripts and not GMS scripts.

The potential for Ireland to become a hub for clinical trials was mentioned as was the need for a supremo in the Department who might drive that on. The supremo in the UK was referred to. How significant would that be? How successful has that supremo been in the UK in making the UK a hub?

Ms Anne Nolan

It has been very successful. Many companies here have great difficulty when placing their clinical trials. There is a great deal of red tape. They have difficulties from one hospital to the next in trying to set them up. There is a very legally restrictive structure in terms of trials. There are many regulations. The whole innovation culture could best be supported in the health arena by appointing somebody who would have responsibility for innovation and research throughout the health service.

This would filter into the area of clinical trials and help the companies because they are competing against other countries, in particular in eastern Europe, to set up these trials. Clinicians welcome them as it gives them a chance to use new medicines and to give new medicines earlier to patients. It is a win-win for everybody to remove the road blocks and for the system to operate as effectively as it should.

Approximately 25,000 people are employed in the industry and it is a significant contributor. What is the breakdown? We met people from Pfizer. Is it fair to state that many of the products which emanate from Pfizer actually originate there? Many of the products on the world market originate and are researched in Deputy Clune's constituency.

Are there considerable opportunities for research, for developing new lines of products and for innovation here? What must we do to ensure graduates in the sciences and in engineering, which is very important? We must focus on the employment and enterprise aspects as well as income for the State. What changes would the association like to see to our education system to make the sciences and engineering more attractive? Engineering involves research and is a very detailed area. People may have to do masters degrees.

Pfizer is acquiring Wyeth. What impact will that have? Will it become patient-centric? Is that the future? Will more companies acquire other companies? Is this is a likely trend? What will that mean in terms of employment and product innovation? After all, employment is very important. As was said, the environment is very challenging and turbulent, and it is probably more so in the pharmaceutical industry. How important is our taxation regime in terms of maintaining what is there and of continuing to expand in the future?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

The taxation regime is critical and it needs to be moved on into the research and development areas as well. It has been key in terms of people locating here. The education system has also been critical. That has been the second stalwart. We have provided high value jobs and places where people with PhDs and MScs can go.

I did my PhD in Cork in the mid-1980s and I ended up having to emigrate. Everybody else who got a PhD at that time emigrated because there was no post-doctoral place to go where one could go to do the next level. All there was to do was lecturing. The Government needs to continue to look at ways of giving intermediate grants or whatever to companies to give people employment in the short term and experience. As people get experience, they can move into other areas and even leave the country and return bringing back more experience.

There should be an emphasis on education, on giving people a clear pathway and on making it economic because as post docs, one ended up living on a pittance. Making it an attractive career for people and not having to wait until they get to 35 or 40 years of age before they can earn is important. We provide very high value jobs.

Ms Anne Nolan

Approximately 35% of employees in the industry are graduates, so there are many opportunities coming down the tracks. Employment has been growing at approximately 1,000 persons per year in the industry and we believe that will continue.

To answer the Chairman's question on mergers, we believe we will see more because there is another in the offing between MSD and Schering-Plough. We believe we will see more of these because research pipelines in the industry are drying up, so they are consolidating their efforts and joining forces to try to fix the problems in the pipelines.

In regard to research and development here, we do not expect to see de novo research and development — actual product development — but what we expect to see, and what we see much of already, is process development. The people who work in the industry here are experts in the further development and manufacturing of the products and processes. Working with clinicians, they gain very good experience on how the products are used in patients, in particular in our sector and the medical device sector. We expect to see much of that developing here because the plants are state-of-the-art and modern.

I refer to research and development. What does the association see as absolutely critical in terms of incentivising companies to have their research and development facilities here? Is it a combination of the taxation regime, the education system and location? We are the gateway to Europe for many of the US companies. I know there is Japan, China and so on as well. What is the association's take on that?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

The industry is moving from what we call chemically-based small molecule products into large molecule biotechnology products, which are more peptides and monoclonal antibodies. These areas are much more small volume but highly technical. We will need to work with the industry to help make the transition from bulk to these smaller more specialised areas. We will not only have to help the people but we will have to work with the companies in terms of ensuring whatever grants are available so they can make the transition. That is what will happen over perhaps the next ten years. One will see this move from the normal tablets to delivery of very specialised products, especially as they map out the genome. They are obviously coming up with peptides and monoclonal antibodies and other more specialised products to deliver. We will have to move.

That is a different science. One is moving from organic chemistry into biotechnology. We will clearly have to have graduates who will develop the biotechnology area but we will also have to help companies to do whatever restructuring they need to do to bring those jobs here.

The Chairman made the point I wished to raise. As a Deputy from Kildare, I recognise the important role the industry plays in north Kildare, in particular, the high quality jobs it creates there and its involvement in the community. It is doing excellent work. The delegates referred in their presentation to medicines in the pipeline. I am interested to note there are currently 646 medicines under investigation in the development of cancer treatment. I assume that is the worldwide situation. What is the role of the universities and how does the interaction work between the pharmaceutical businesses and universities? Do the businesses grant-aid people in the universities? The Government provides substantial funding to the universities for research and development in a range of areas. That is very important for the business in respect of growth. In these recessionary times, what are the delegates' views of the support currently provided by the Government for research and development?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

It is good and we are very happy with it. Our worry would be that the Government would pull back from it. More support can always be given. The Irish pharmaceutical industry has been a success story. What support has been given was excellent as are the relationships which have been developed with the universities. I work for Eli Lilly which has a very good relationship with UCC. The interaction there has been excellent. We are concerned that the Government would end up having to draw back from this support and by doing that would kill the future. This is the future and we must continue the investment in these areas and jobs. We have the skill and the technology. It is very difficult to develop this skill-set. We have people who know their business and that is why Eli Lilly has moved here. We are now moving into the biotechnology area in Cork which would not have had a core competency in that regard. We are developing that because we have the competency in the area. The more we can do the better. These are high-quality and very valuable jobs. We would say, "Do more".

I have a question on the supply chain. Appendices 1 and 2 of the document deal with the average gross margins of pharmaceutical wholesalers and the average margins of pharmacists. I am struggling to find a reference in the main document to the delegates' margins. Have they supplied those?

Mr. Gerald Farrell

We did not supply them in the main document.

Can Mr. Farrell tell us what they are?

Ms Anne Nolan

We can state what they are, globally.

Can they give us the figures for the Irish supply chain?

Ms Anne Nolan

We are not in a position to do that.

Perhaps the delegates might tell us what they are able to tell us.

Ms Anne Nolan

We do not have those figures. With all the worldwide manufacturing that goes on here——

It is probably commercially sensitive.

Ms Anne Nolan

Apart from being commercially sensitive, it would be a meaningless figure and we do not have the figures, in any case.

What can the delegates tell us about international margins?

Ms Anne Nolan

The industry's profit levels are approximately 16% or 17%. They used to be a little higher. This would be one of the highest earning industries but members should remember that product development is lengthy, expensive and risky. The rewards are quite good in that type of industry, probably in second or third place to the mining industries.

What was the figure Ms Nolan provided?

Ms Anne Nolan

I said 16% or 17% for profit levels, as recognised internationally. The American and European figures——

The Kaiser Institute information.

Ms Anne Nolan

Yes, from the Kaiser Institute. Studies show the European figures would be similar in respect of profit levels. The figures are relatively high compared with other industries. I believe the average is approximately 5% or 6% in other industries.

The document provides the figure of 15.36% in respect of the other elements of the supply chain here.

Ms Anne Nolan

That is for the gross margins in the wholesale trade and the pharmacists in the private script area.

Mr. Gerald Farrell

One fact that is not generally realised is that it costs us over €1 billion to bring a medicine to market. The fallout rate is extremely high. Companies put back about 15% to 20% of their sale as reinvestment for research so obviously it is a difficult area from a regulatory point of view as well as from an efficacy point of view, as in bringing drugs to market. That is a big figure and has risen. It now costs approximately €1 billion to bring a drug to market.

I thank Ms Nolan and Mr. Farrell for their assistance and deliberations. There is no doubt the pharmaceutical industry is important to the Irish economy. Given the current economic downturn obviously we must be concerned for the future of all jobs in this sector and about our ability to retain and expand them. We are aware that our dependence on decisions in boardrooms taken elsewhere is important. The signals we give out in terms of taxation, education and our ability to promote innovation are very important in this context. We encourage the Government to continue to be proactive in protecting these jobs rather than wait passively for the axe to fall on any production facility. We must make sure we are always proactive rather than reactive in this area. We must protect these jobs by ensuring that every research and development opportunity and facility is pursued and utilised to maximum effect. We all know there is a time when as an economy we need to be there to protect and promote our interests and not wait for negative events, mergers or downside initiatives to overtake us and start then.

The contribution of the delegates was useful in that context by alerting us to the importance of the pharmaceutical industry as a whole to the economy. We are acutely aware of this. Deputy Clune has made reference to this issue over a long period. The industry is of great importance in the Cork area as it is in Dublin and County Kildare.

It brings high quality jobs and gives high job satisfaction for the people working there.

We must take cognisance that the delegates were talking about high level and fourth level education. We had better get on our bikes, to use the colloquialism, and get right up there. In the 1980s, the delegates went ahead like many Irish graduates and acquired further education and qualifications elsewhere. We must focus on providing this education at home to ensure we will be in the vanguard rather than trailing behind in this very important area.

We know the delegates are busy and thank them for taking time off and giving us the benefit of their wisdom and detailed knowledge in this area.

Ms Anne Nolan

I thank the Chairman.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.30 a.m. until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 10 June 2009.
Barr
Roinn