Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Dec 2010

Human Rights and EU Free Trade Agreement with Colombia: Discussion

The joint committee will now discuss the European Union's free trade agreement with and the human rights situation in Colombia. This meeting has been convened arising out of concerns expressed by various members when the joint committee last discussed this matter.

I welcome Mr. Jack O'Connor, president of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. I welcome also the delegation from Colombia, Congressman Hernando Hermandez, Ms Clara Lopez, Ms Lina Malagon, Mr. Tarsicio Mora and Reinaldo Villalba, whom we are delighted to have with us.

Before we commence, on behalf of the joint committee, I express our condolences to the Colombian delegation on the loss of life in the recent tragic landslides in north western Colombia. We note the inclement weather that has affected Colombia. We, too, are currently experiencing inclement weather.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, you are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence you are to give this committee. If you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and you continue to so do, you are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence.

You are also reminded that only evidence connected with the subject matter of the proceedings is to be given and you are asked to respect the parliamentary practice not to mention persons or a person outside the House or unconnected with the business of the committee. Witnesses should not let the warning restrict them too much because I will always inform them if necessary.

I call on Mr. Jack O'Connor, president of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, to address the committee. We will have a number of submissions and then a question and answer session.

Mr. Jack O’Connor

I thank the Chairman and committee for receiving us today. I note the remarks of the Chairman on the weather in Colombia. Increasingly, there are many parallels and it seems the weather in Colombia and Ireland are some of the better parts of what is happening in both countries at the current time. Irrespective of what view one takes, things are not good. The delegation is here to present the committee with a glimpse of the human rights issues which are confronting the Colombian people and solicit its support for them and assist them in their plight inasmuch as it can.

The delegation comprises Congressman Hernando Hernandez, the representative of the indigenous people in Colombia who holds the reserve seat for them in the Colombian Parliament, Mr. Tarsicio Mora, general secretary of the main trade union confederation in Colombia, CUT, Ms Lina Malagón, a lawyer with the Colombian Commission of Jurists, and Mr. Reinaldo Villalba, vice president of the José Alvear Restrepo human rights lawyers collective, CAJAR, which is pursuing a range of human rights issues within the Colombian legal system. Our interpreters are Mr. Victor Figueroa Clark and Ms Natasha Morgan. With the permission of the Chair, I invite Congressman Hernandez to address the committee.

Mr. Hernando Hernandez

I thank the committee and give it sincere and fraternal greetings from Colombia and our trade unions, social organisations, political opposition and delegation. I thank the committee for its gesture of solidarity with the victims of the terrible weather in Colombia. We have had rains and vast areas have been flooded which have affected small peasant farmers and urban dwellers and caused the deaths of several people. The terrible winter from which we have been suffering is the result of global warming, which in turn is the result of humanity ignoring the damage it is doing to mother nature and the Earth. In this sense, our countries need to make an effort to care for the resources and life on this planet.

The committee knows also that our country suffers from other deep historical and systematic problems. Many of these are social problems. Others are political but the ones that concern the trade unions, popular movement and political opposition are the humanitarian problems. Colombia lives with a political and social armed conflict which has been ongoing for more than 50 years. As a result of this there is a permanent level of human rights abuses. In Colombia the opposition is persecuted, jailed, massacred and murdered. The Colombian Government in the past exterminated an entire political movement known as the Patriotic Union which left more than 13,000 victims dead.

The Colombian opposition is persecuted for thinking differently and questioning government policy, the economic model which is being put forward and the payment of foreign debt. The persecution takes the form of threats, imprisonment and murder. There are more than 7,000 political prisoners - prisoners of conscience - in Colombia, merely for opposing government polices. There are also more than 5 million internally displaced people and the situation got considerably worse in recent years under the government of Álvaro Uribe Vélez. We have a new government under President Santos which has sought to create an environment in which there will be a belief things can change. However, this is a lie because while there has been a change of form, the same policies continue to be applied. In the five months the Santos Government has been in office, already eight trade unionists have been killed. In 2010 to date, 41 have been murdered. Our own Alternative Democratic Pole party, the political opposition, has had 12 of its members murdered, 47 threatened and many more imprisoned. Moreover, there is constant abuse of other human rights by the armed forces and the security services, especially in rural areas where the war continues. For example, the mobility of indigenous Afro-Colombian and peasant farmers is restricted. This restricts their ability to grab hold of vital supplies that they need for their survival.

This policy of human rights abuses is applied to generate terror among the people as a whole and the leaders of social organisations and within the political opposition in order to create the conditions which will enable the government to continue its policies on the economy and fulfil its commitments to international institutions and organisations such as in the the proposed free trade agreements with Canada, the United States and the European Union. We consider that if one of the conditions of the European Union for signing a free trade agreement is that the other partner respect social, environmental and human rights, the Colombian Government ought not to be rewarded with such an agreement since, as I said - we have the proof - there is ongoing systematic violation of human rights of members of the political opposition, human rights defenders and social organisations.

I thank Mr. Hernandez.

Mr. Jack O’Connor

With the permission of the Chairman, I invite the general secretary of the Trade Union Congress in Colombia, Mr. Moro, to address the committee briefly.

Mr. Tarsicio Moro

I thank members of the joint committee for the hospitality they have shown. In spite of the climate, we have received a very warm welcome.

Humanity has constructed rules of tolerance to allow people to live together. The words of solidarity today exemplify that humanity. We have worked together and created the United Nations and other organisations in which we come together to discuss labour and other issues that affect all of us. Different democracies have helped to guarantee the role of the trade union movement within them. Each trade union leader has worked to ensure we are part of a democracy and there is equilibrium between workers and employers.

There is consensus that it is very important to condemn violence and the abuse of human rights in some systems. Human rights are central to a democracy. In my country the rights of trade unions have been violated by governments past and present. The government continues a policy of extermination of trade union leaders, of whom 41 have been assassinated so far this year. As we left our country, an indigenous leader was assassinated. This goes to show that human rights continue to be violated within the country. We want these criminals and the intellectual authors to be brought to justice. However, the rate of impunity is 98%.

The international agreements ratified in Colombia are not respected. The right of association is not respected, while the rights of trade unions are not guaranteed. There is no right to protest or for trade union leaders to engage in dialogue. That is why we have come before the committee to ask for its support because under the government, these rights are not respected. In a document we have circulated to the committee members can see a list of the leaders who have been assassinated and there are others who are not documented. That is why it is important the European Union does not sign a free trade agreement with Colombia for the very reasons my colleague, Congressman Hernando Hermandez, and I have highlighted. It would show a total disregard for human rights. We do not want the international community to reward any government which does not recognise social and human rights.

I thank the committee.

Mr. Jack O’Connor

Before other members of the delegation address the joint committee, members of the committee may have questions to put to them.

There will be a vote at 2 p.m. I, therefore, ask for the first raft of questions to be put as quickly as possible before we call on the remainder of the delegation.

I welcome Mr. O'Connor and our friends from Colombia. I had the opportunity a couple of years ago when there was some political turmoil here to traipse around South America for a number of months. At the time, for reasons of safety, I chose not to visit Colombia. Having looked at the document the delegation has submitted to the joint committee, perhaps that was a wise decision. It makes for shocking reading and I am aware that many of the atrocities cited are relatively recent. One of the consequences of political and economic turmoil in Ireland is we have become more inward looking. We have to realise, however, that we are part of an interdependent global community. Therefore, we undermine our humanity if we turn a blind eye to abuses of human rights.

I am struck by the similarity of the presentations. Reference has been made to the recent elections in Colombia and the expression that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Will the delegates give their views on the fairness or otherwise of the democratic electoral process in Colombia and the international adjudication process used to monitor the elections? Obviously, we are familiar with the role played by international observers in elections. Were the elections considered to be free and fair?

Apart from the obvious references to human rights abuses, will the delegates give us some information on the real or imaginary fault lines between the government and opposition parties in Colombia? They might also like to comment on the view that has some currency that a failure to put trade agreements in place often impacts most on the poorer people in a country. In Zimbabwe, for example, notwithstanding international ostracisation, the Mugabe Administration seems to continue forever. I wonder, therefore, whether there would be some merit in incremental engagement with the Colombian Government in order that there could be a gradual improvement in public life in terms of human rights in return for an increase in the volume of trade.

I, too, welcome Mr. O'Connor and the delegation. I express my horror at the contents of the document circulated. My fellow members of the Green Party have asked me to express our sympathies to the victims and their families and to the organisations to which the victims belong. The use of terror utterly discredits the claim of the government and the president to being true democratic leaders. The list of victims further discredits them. The European Union needs to view the negotiations on a free trade agreement as a moment of leverage. The people who have been targeted include activists from every walk of life, from gay rights activists to environmental activists to union leaders. Children have been caught up in the campaign that has been waged against the human rights activists community in Colombia. That is to be condemned.

Chairman, may I propose that before the next General Affairs and External Relations Council meeting in January that we raise the issues we have learned about today with the Minister, request that the free trade agreement be checked against human rights abuses and send a recommendation that a free trade agreement cannot be made in these circumstances. On a point of information, do protocols allow the committee to so instruct the Minister?

We cannot instruct the Minister but can call on him to do so. We will arrange for that to be put on the agenda for the next meeting.

Yes. I thank the Chairman.

The delegates have heard the response from the members. The members of the main Government party are at a parliamentary party meeting and there have been a series of meeting on the budget which is the reason that fewer members of the committee are present. The members have raised significant questions on the extent to which the committee through the Minister can influence positively at EU level what is happening in Colombia. Civil rights abuses are not acceptable in any circumstances anywhere. This committee and the Oireachtas has repeatedly intervened in similar situations in the past. The period of negotiation of a trade agreement is an especially good time to advance the issues raised by the delegates. They can be assured that the members of the Joint Committee on European Affairs will pursue at every opportunity the issues they have raised and will maintain correspondence with Mr. Jack O'Connor, the other Members of the House and others who have expressed an interest in the issue.

I compliment Mr. Jack O'Connor on his positive influence and activity in this area, not only in recent time but over a long number of years. I now call Mr. O'Connor, who also faces time constraints.

Mr. Jack O’Connor

I thank the Chairman for his kind remarks. I invite Mr. Tarsicio Mora to respond to Deputy Creed's questions.

Mr. Tarsicio Mora

In response to questions on the elections and the new government, the electoral system in Colombia is very problematic and the electoral process at national and regional level is always assailed by big doubts on its very legitimacy. There were denunciations of the previous government on its use of specific programmes to bribe voters, especially those from the poorest backgrounds. One such programme is called Families in Action. There is a large financial allocation from the budget towards this programme which affects 8 million people who are overwhelmingly displaced or poor and who serve as the social basis of this process. In this regard, we have asked the international organisation and the international community to observe the abuses committed against these people.

With regard to the free trade agreement, FTA, although some say that signing the agreement would reduce poverty, and we respect these opinions, in 2009 poverty in Colombia rose to 20 million people. A total of 8 million people live in extreme poverty, unemployment is at approximately 13% in an informal sector that consists of 60% of the economy, and we can be sure, with the experience of other countries, that the effects of signing the FTA would be very negative. As president of the CUT, I have relations with many other trade unions from other countries. For example, the agricultural sector in Colombia is not in a position to compete with the agricultural prowess of any developed country and, in the case of small and medium-sized businesses, the lack of support from the state and their low technological level would mean that they would be destroyed by imports. This would lead to rocketing unemployment and poverty. Not signing the FTA would be a tremendous sign of Ireland's solidarity with us. If honourable parliamentarians from the Irish Parliament were to visit Colombia to see these social sectors that would be affected, they would witness this reality.

I share Mr. Mora's analysis of the impact of FTAs when the asymmetry between the economies involved, for instance, Colombia and the EU or Colombia and the US, is so great. Certain conditions are needed before the agreements are put in place.

Mr. Jack O’Connor

On this question, there is a debate around which is the best way to approach the issue vis-á-vis an FTA. There is a right and a wrong way but everyone’s view is legitimate. As part of a human rights delegation which visited the country last July, I met the President of Colombia immediately prior to his taking office. We raised the question with him of the possibility of ratification being subject to a number of human rights benchmarks. Whereas his remarks were generally positive, when one came to the specifics, they were otherwise and he said, for example, he did not think it would be good for him to allow himself to be tied into that kind of understanding because the benchmarks would keep moving, which I very much doubt because they would be recorded clearly in resolutions of democratic parliaments and so on.

The reason ICTU is urging our legislators to withhold ratification pending progress on clearly identifiable human rights benchmarks is that whereas European law permits suspension or the ultimate sanction post-ratification, the process is so cumbersome that, in effect, it would never happen. It appears this FTA will not only require the ratification of the European Parliament but, because of its nature, will very probably require the ratification of national parliaments as well, and that affords two opportunities to our legislators to influence the balance in favour of creating a human rights platform which would assist in incrementally improving the situation within Colombia. We want to put that to the committee as the view of ICTU.

We thank the members of the committee who attended and the Chairman for facilitating us. I have explained to the members of the delegation the extent of the political pressure in our system today and they understand that, nonetheless we appreciate the fact that the committee received us. I thank the Chairman for his kind remarks in regard to myself. I am in the unique position that I am getting less criticism in Colombia than in Ireland.

You must be effective so - that is the sign. I thank the delegation for its attendance and assure it that the points raised by members and the delegation will be followed up by the committee and we will liaise with Mr. Jack O'Connor and the delegation as time goes on. The point made by Deputy Michael Creed, Mr. Jack O'Connor and Senator Mark Dearey is appropriate, namely, despite the fact that in our respective positions we may be under pressure at this time that does not mean we are not prepared, willing and ready to assist those who might be under similar pressure.

The joint committee went into private session at 1.55 p.m. and adjourned at 2 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 14 December 2010.
Barr
Roinn