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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 15 Sep 2011

Presentations by Ambassadors of Poland, Denmark and Cyprus

I welcome His Excellency, Mr. Marcin Nawrot, Ambassador of Poland, His Excellency, Mr. Niels Pultz, Ambassador of Denmark, and His Excellency, Dr. Michalis Stavrinos, Ambassador of Cyprus. From the number of people present, it is clear that everyone is interested in what our guests will have to say. We are going to be considering the Polish Presidency and programme proposed by the trio of member states represented by the ambassadors.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. If witnesses are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I invite His Excellency, Mr. Nawrot, Ambassador of Poland, to make his opening statement.

His Excellency the Ambassador of Poland (Mr. Marcin Nawrot)

Chairman, distinguished members of the committee, Excellencies and colleagues, it is a great honour for me to present to such an eminent audience the priorities and assumptions of the Polish Presidency of the Council of the European Union, which Poland took over on 1 July. Poland assumed this leadership responsibility after over seven years of active participation in the European Union. We have gained a better understanding of the process and we thank you for the generous support over many years which has helped make it possible. We thank Hungary for its fine work and advice in the first half of this year. We also thank Denmark and Cyprus for working so closely with us in our trio to help create a coherent programme of action into 2012.

It is 21 years since the elections in 1990 which ended communism and gave us again a freely elected President, Mr. Lech Walesa. We restored our freedom and dignity by mobilising round one bold idea and the values it represented, namely, Solidarity. Europe is now united and this is a profoundly optimistic story for our Continent which should not be forgotten. Europe has been gradually transformed for the benefit of us all. Co-operation across all policy areas is now automatic, organised, broader and deeper. New institutions have developed and we have shared defence arrangements, a new external action service and a common currency. This is a story of optimism, growth, teamwork and commitment. A story of success and solidarity. There has been nothing else like it in world history. That very ambition - in all its complexity and determination - that underpins the EU is creating new problems. Optimists insist that the European project is now too big to fail. Pessimists insist that it is too big to succeed.

In many parts of the European Union, public debts are growing. Unemployment is stubbornly high. New jobs are not emerging. We face other painful strategic questions in respect of long-term energy supplies, migration and border controls, fierce economic and political competition from other parts of the world and instability across north Africa and the Middle East. Above all, we face the issues around the eurozone and Europe's financial markets. All these problems are combining to test, as never before, some of our deepest shared assumptions of Europe-wide solidarity and common resolve.

This was the situation facing the European Union as Poland took its Presidency turn. I know what all of those present are wondering. They are asking themselves, "In the short few months they have been leading the European Union, can the Poles really do anything new or add value, especially when those problems facing Europe are so large and complex?". They are correct to be realistic. Very few presidencies push through sudden changes of direction or achieve dramatic policy jumps, planned before the Presidency started. However, a new Presidency brings renewed energy, a change of style, a chance to identify new themes and plant policy seeds which may grow into sturdy plants to the benefit of people across the Continent and far beyond.

Europe is facing severe problems. In the months and years to come, it will need to take transformative, far-reaching decisions. Poland knows all about facing severe problems and taking such decisions. We are ready to draw on the lessons of our example and to show a certain boldness of spirit in the context of a reaffirmation of solidarity and of basic European values. Our approach can be summed up in three words, describing the way we see the European Union and Poland's role in it, namely, "growing", "secure" and "open". We want a growing Europe. All of Europe's policy ambitions for ourselves, for our own neighbourhood and for our global reputation will falter if we do not put our own economic house in order. A Europe struggling with its own financial credibility on global markets will not be growing or secure. Its openness will be called into question. Poland is not a member of the eurozone but the euro is our vital interest. It is our strategic goal to join the eurozone when the conditions are right. Poland joined the euro plus pact precisely to show this commitment.

As Poland moves towards eurozone membership, it brings with it one of the European Union's best performances in recent years in terms of sustained economic growth and sound financial management. We have a constitutional rule of 60% debt to GDP which the government cannot breach and additional expenditure rules are now being developed as a consequence of the crisis. This prudent fiscal framework, together with a flexible economy and European Union funds investment, helped maintain growth, even during the crisis. Therefore in our Presidency we plan to play a full part in helping European partners identify the modern regulation framework the European Union needs to move forward strongly and to grow faster. However, the foundation of future European success is not clever rules for clever money, it is Europe's people, working well and hard together to create value.

The Presidency supports Commission proposals for reforming the Internal Market - the Single Market Act. The Presidency will focus on several practical areas where Europe's own rules and cautious, inflexible attitudes, are holding back people - areas where we can make a difference to hundreds of millions of people.

E-commerce must be a big part of the European market's future. Europeans are comfortable about online shopping in their own countries but still uneasy about buying online from sites elsewhere in the European Union. Some 60% of cross-border e-commerce is not happening due to legal constraints and we need to make progress on that. For decades Europe was divided by the ugly Berlin Wall. That has been demolished but far too many ugly little legal and regulatory walls still stop things happening. Imagine if we got to take down those walls how new ideas and new jobs would be created and how much more smoothly things would work.

The Presidency will warmly support Commission proposals to create a new legal space for a European Union-wide common sales contract. This will bring people together across and beyond internal borders. Another good result will be cheaper roaming services. Mobile internet access is soaring. It makes no sense that simply by crossing from one part of the European Union to another Europeans are deterred by high prices from co-operating online. Less obvious but no less strategic is the EU patent regime, which could save millions for our entrepreneurs and therefore encourage innovation faster. Measures like this make a real difference. They set people free and they are on the table to be pushed through.

While this work goes on, Europe must invest for the future. This Presidency sees the first major moves to define the European Union's next budget framework for 2014-2020. Pressures on national treasuries are heavy for all the obvious reasons, but Europe cannot afford to step back from the strategic investment and solidarity that the European Union represents. This budget underpins the Europe 2020 strategy. The Presidency is confident that in the coming months this sensitive budget negotiation can make a fair and reasonable start. We will set a scene for a final budget deal next year. Our ambition is to work hard and fair to clarify issues at stake and to understand what the Commission proposal means for every member state.

A growing Europe needs a secure Europe. Security depends on maintaining confidence in our policies, institutions, communities and ourselves. The institutional and community framework includes border management policies that work and enjoy the respect of citizens. Reasonable and orderly processes of migration help Europe. Chaotic pressure on Europe's borders brought about by events beyond our control creates serious new problems for many member states. This can even call into question our hard-won internal solidarity on free movement of people. The Polish Presidency will push for enhanced capacity to help Frontex deal with these unexpected crises.

At the most basic human level of security is food. A secure Europe means having ways to cope with shocks to global food supplies. Security also comes from biodiversity - balancing economic development with essential environmental protection. The Common Agricultural Policy has served Europe well but it needs reform. The Presidency will promote good compromises which combine market-based reforms with continuing support where that makes sense, especially for less developed rural areas.

A Europe secure in itself articulates a credible and united voice in international affairs. Here the Lisbon treaty opens up new ways to deploy different sorts of power to make policy and to have a collective impact. The Presidency means to develop these options, pushing hard to bring together civilian and military operations, and supporting the high representative as she builds up the European Union's collective external policy networks.

In terms of an open Europe, a growing and secure Europe is a generous Europe, extending its success to other countries. The Presidency welcomed the decision of the European Union member states to close accession negotiations with Croatia. We want progress to be made with Turkey and Iceland. Serbia has made an important step towards European Union membership by arresting General Mladic. Let us push ahead with helping all the countries of the Western Balkans move through their accession programmes in a positive and mutually reinforcing spirit.

Our Presidency will look to the east and to the south. In eastern Europe there is still unfinished business. Opening up things to allow people and trade to move is the best way forward. Belarus is an extreme case, a country whose economic prospects are now in serious danger because of banal tyranny. The forces for reform need unwavering EU support. With Ukraine and Moldova, the position is incomparably better and we want to see it better still. We will push to conclude association agreements, more visa liberalisation and new free trade areas.

The Presidency will work to set up a new framework of co-operation between the European Union and Russia. Poland, of all countries in Europe, knows just how important it is to get right Europe's relationship with its largest neighbour - right in tone and right in substance.

All these policies and initiatives come together in September in Warsaw at the Eastern Partnership Summit. This hugely symbolic event brings together European Union and central and eastern European leaders. It marks a new, important step in the integration of our Continent and shows that Europe is not only focused on its internal processes but tries to reach out to our neighbours. If Europe has unfinished business in the east, to the south the business is only beginning. Dramatic events are unfolding in north Africa and the wider Arab region. People are demanding accountable government and an end to clumsy oppression.

As we know from our own Continent, it is one thing to end a bad system, it is quite another to build a strong new one. Sustained reform means mobilising the energy and discipline of one's own people. These changes in the region will take years, even decades. Not all these changes will be for the better. Some religious and ethnic minorities, including Christians, need and must have a special European policy voice. These countries need to find their own path. The European Union will support them with the technology of democracy, in the best spirit of European solidarity and mutual respect.

Our Presidency will help get the right policy mix. The European Union draws on the hard-won experience of Poland and the other countries which have cleared the rubble of oppression to build modern policies and free transparent institutions. We therefore plan a high level conference in December to share best practices from our transformation and to help facilitate change and democratisation in the south.

If one thing is certain in our uncertain world, it is that something unexpected, and probably unwelcome, will come along during the Polish Presidency. We will be ready for that too as we were ready for big changes over the decades.

I will say a final word about what this means for me. In 1985 I participated in the European Youth Meeting in Strasbourg called "Future in Europe". At that time I was also a co-editor of the underground magazine devoted to the situation in the former Soviet Bloc. What struck me the most was that young people from western Europe were considering only western Europe while thinking about the future of our Continent. During my speech at the closing session I said: "Europe will have [a] future only when we think about it as a whole - including the part that longs for freedom and democracy." Now, 26 after saying those words, I can see how close to the truth I was then. For this reason it is crucial for me personally to call for the openness of Europe. Since only when it is open, can it guarantee security and constant growth.

That concludes my speech presenting the priorities and assumptions of the Polish Presidency of the EU Council. I am grateful to have this opportunity to set them out to the Oireachtas. I will be very pleased to hear the comments of the committee and I will be very happy to respond to any questions members may have.

I thank the ambassador. As he outlined at the start of his presentation, the Presidency is important because each country brings a new energy, style and experiences. The ambassador's own experience, as outlined in his final remarks, was of interest. In recent months I have become aware of the enormous effort Poland is making on the Presidency. I compliment the ambassador on that. I invite the ambassador to Denmark, His Excellency, Mr. Niels Pultz, to make his presentation.

His Excellency the Ambassador of Denmark (Mr. Niels Pultz)

Thank you Chairman and members of the committee, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen. It is a great pleasure and honour for me to be here together with my two colleagues, the Polish ambassador and the ambassador of Cyprus. As Ambassador Nawrot rightly said, we form a trio from now until the end of 2012 when Ireland takes over the Presidency of the European Union.

As members will know, Denmark joined the then EC in 1973, together with Ireland and the United Kingdom. Hence, the first half of 2012 will mark our seventh Presidency of the European Union. Therefore, it is a special pleasure for me and for the Danish Government and colleagues in Copenhagen that Denmark will be in a trio with two countries who successfully negotiated their entry into the European Union during the previous Danish Presidency in 2002 when an agreement was reached at the meeting of Heads of State and Government in Copenhagen in December of that year. Nine years later we sit here as equal partners in the European Union with, in the words of Ambassador Nawrot, what in many ways is a story of success and solidarity. There is nothing else like it in world history. But, as he said, it is also a Continent facing many problems and challenges which can only be overcome throughout Europe with better co-operation. Hence, in our joint programme we have put growth - in our term it is green growth - at the centre of attention. In our so-called relay race at the end of our trio Presidency we will hand the baton over to Ireland, hopefully with Europe in a better shape than we find it today. Moreover, we will also put emphasis on competitiveness and energy efficiency.

We are all aware that things have changed since we had the last Danish Presidency which we have to take into account. Ambassador Nawrot mentioned it. First, we had the entry into force of the Lisbon treaty. The implications of its institutional framework mean that we now have two permanent chairmen, the President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy and the High Representative, Lady Ashton, as well as the European External Action Service which have taken over tasks hitherto fulfilled by the rotating Presidencies. That does not make the rotating Presidencies superfluous in these areas but their roles have changed and they have to co-ordinate with President Van Rompuy and Lady Ashton. The European Parliament, moreover, has also got more influence in existing and new policy areas compared to our former Presidencies. In our preparations we are doing our best to take these new developments into account. Also, as always, we have to be prepared for the unprepared, so to speak. Hopefully, we can deliver a truly professional, serious Presidency acting as an honest broker.

I thank the ambassador for his interesting remarks. I call on the Cypriot ambassador, His Excellency, Dr. Stavrinos.

His Excellency the Ambassador of Cyprus (Dr. M. Stavrinos)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the joint committee, Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen. It is with great pleasure and honour that I participate in this special occasion which is my first official assignment after the presentation of my credentials to the President of Ireland just two days ago. I fully subscribe to what Ambassador Nawrot rightly said, as well as to the compliments of my Danish colleague. For Cyprus, its coming Presidency will be its first one, marking thus an important occasion in the historical challenge.

I will add a few points to what my colleagues said. Negotiations for the new multi-annual public finance framework 2014 to 2020 will constitute the most important issue to be handled by the three Presidencies. The aim of the trio is to conclude the negotiations by the end of 2012 so as to promote the adoption and implementation of programmes, policies and financial means of the EU on time while promoting the European social model targeting the social and financial welfare of European citizens. The three Presidencies will promote the effective implementation of the Europe 2020 strategy focusing on new, sustainable financial development without exclusions.

Additionally, the three Presidencies are likely to handle the signing and ratification of the accession treaty of Croatia. The enlargement process for the candidate and potential candidate countries will be promoted based on the principles underpinning the EU to ensure European integration. As part of the neighbourhood policy the Presidencies will seek to further develop relations with southern neighbours aiming at the substantial contribution of the EU to the stability and prosperity of these countries which face a protracted political crisis through existing policies and tools, namely, by further developing the Mediterranean dimension of the European neighbourhood policy as well as, based on partnership, further enhancing relations with the countries of the Middle East, by consolidating the Union for the Mediterranean and by enhancing the EUGOV co-operation and Council dialogue as well as the corresponding one between the EU and the Arab League.

As regards justice and home affairs, the 18 month programme focuses inter alia on the completion of the common European asylum system by the end of 2012, a target which will be a priority for the Cypriot Presidency. Another priority is to further strengthen the EU integrated maritime policy and the 18 month programme seeks the implementation of the regulations to promote further development of a common maritime policy between 2011 and 2013. Finally, the EU should maintain its role in the world in particular regarding security crisis management and combating international terrorism on the basis of the UN charter.

I thank Dr. Stavrinos. I congratulate him on receiving his credentials from the President. He is very welcome to our country as a representative of Cyprus. By the time the Presidency is handed over to Ireland in January 2013 it looks like all the work will be done. The framework budget 2014 to 2020 underpins the 2020 strategy. One of the issues we would be interested in discussing with the Presidencies is CAP reform in terms of food security and other areas. Another issue of interest is the emphasis Poland has on Open Europe moving to the east and to the south in terms of the Arab spring. Those are being developed by the other countries, Denmark and Cyprus, in the following two presidencies. There is also the elaboration on the Lisbon treaty and enlargement with Croatia, the Middle East question, maritime policy and so on. They will be engaged in a wide range of valuable issues and activities in the coming period of time and we will be very interested in participating in all of those. I thank the ambassadors for their presentations. I am sure the members have some questions they would like to put. I will start with Deputy Mac Lochlainn.

I welcome the three ambassadors. I thank them for their presentations and commend their three countries on the joint programme taking the European Union through what we would all agree is its biggest crisis since its inception. I want to focus on two areas in my questions. The first is the financial crisis and the second is the role of the European Union in protecting human rights globally, to which the ambassadors referred at length, particularly the Polish ambassador whose country currently holds the Presidency.

In terms of the financial crisis, there is a major concern across Europe that one of the fundamental principles of the European Union has been solidarity and a collective response to crises. To date, we have failed collectively to find an ultimate solution to this crisis but a fear I have is that an opportunity would be given to dangerous marginal groups within the European Union who would present the crisis as a demonstration that the European Union is no longer of any use to their country. That would be a disservice to working families and communities across the Union.

The only way those of us who want to protect the Union's institutions, be it those on the left or on the right of the economic argument, is to demonstrate solidarity in action. Our committee agreed today on a letter of protest - I ask all the ambassadors to report and query this with their respective governments - over the comments of the EU Energy Commissioner, the German Commissioner, Mr. Günther Oettinger. His comments about flags flying at half mast on European Union buildings as a deterrent have been received extremely badly here in Ireland. It was wrong of somebody who holds a position as high as a Commissioner to make those comments at a time when the Irish people are enduring extremely difficult austerity and no growth economically in order to play our part in tackling what is a cross-European crisis. The genesis of the crisis was in the banking sector internationally but particularly in Europe. Irresponsibility across the banking sector ultimately has caused this crisis and for a Commissioner to use such emotive language in referring to flags, one of the symbols held most dearly by any people, is outrageous. We have sent a letter of protest but it is important to show an act of solidarity.

I was particularly taken with Ambassador Nawrot's comments on the history of Poland and the critical role Poland can play because of its recent experience in the regeneration process we must undertake. That is an issue I ask him to address.

Our leaders collectively will have to deal with the financial crisis, which I will not deal with today. The Chairman has heard many of my views in the recent past.

The second point concerns human rights. As we gather here today a remarkable event is taking place in this city organised by Front Line Defenders. More than 100 human rights defenders from more than 90 countries across the globe have come together in Dublin Castle to share their experiences and have a sense of solidarity and hope that they are not alone and that they can achieve their collective objectives, which is defending the most precious rights. Since they gathered 18 months ago, two of their numbers have been murdered. One was murdered in Mexico and a gay rights activist was murdered in his home in Uganda after a newspaper in Uganda published details of members of his organisation, gay and lesbian human beings who love each other, with the headline "Hang them". This is what is going on in the world and we have a fundamental responsibility in Europe to defend those human rights and to be consistent in their defence, not just in one country where there may be economic interests. We should defend human rights without fear or prejudice.

We face a severe crisis in Europe and we will have to tackle it together. We will have to be innovative, courageous and collective but the European Union has potential to be a beacon of hope to the likes of the people who are gathered in this city, the human rights defenders who have had extremely difficult experiences across the world. We have the potential to be a beacon of hope for them, a defender of human rights, and to defend what we have achieved including workers' rights, environmental improvements and women's rights, which are huge advances of which we should be proud. The challenge is to ensure we protect all of that and I would proffer that the first task for us is to confront the Commissioner who made the remarks to which I referred earlier. They are dangerous and they have the potential, if not challenged and dealt with, to undermine our community at a time when solidarity was never more important. I thank the ambassadors.

I welcome and congratulate Their Excellencies for coming before the committee and setting out their objectives. We wish them well. There is a huge task ahead. It is a task that has been evident for the past number of years. A number of us, like the Chairman, have campaigned on the issues of European solidarity, European integration and European co-operation for the past 20 to 30 years and we felt we were right in doing that. We still believe we were correct and will continue to do so.

We speak as a people who are absolutely committed to the European project but, sadly, there are many people within the European Union who lack that commitment. That is a sad statement to make at this stage because the European Union worked very effectively for almost 60 years. It was going in the right direction and succeeded in achieving its targets. Sadly, at this particular time, the Union seems to have lost its way because a number of people have set themselves up as spokespersons on behalf of the entire Union, something that should never be done. That was referred to by the President of the European Parliament when he visited here some time ago. He spoke extremely well and understood the position better than most people.

Sadly also, the instability that affects Europe in financial circles at the present time, with effects worldwide, stems in great measure from the degree of instability created within. I refer to the second guessing and what is almost suspicion created and the tendency to turn upon itself. European history should be sufficiently well chronicled for everybody to know that Europe should not go down that route.

We have all spoken on this issue in the past six, seven or ten years because some of us saw this development taking place and there is still plenty of time for the European Union, as an entity, to recognise that it must recover its focus, objectivity, cohesion, co-operation and the respect of the member states for each other. If that does not happen, we will gradually slide off in a direction where suspicion and accusation will follow upon each other in rapid succession, with ultimate deterioration and diminution of the European concept and failure of the European Union as an entity.

I am tired listening to alleged experts speculating on the basis that they believe they have all the answers and stating that if X, Y and Z had been done, everything would have been right. Some say everything would have been right had we not had the euro. We should speculate on what really would have been the case if there had been no euro. Those who say there should be total political unity and subsidiarity across the Union and that an EU government is the only answer are speaking rubbish. Those who suggest strongly on a regular basis that a single tax regime should apply across the Union, regardless of circumstances, social requirements and geographic considerations, are also talking rubbish. It does not even happen in the United States. I do not know where the alleged experts get their expertise.

As with other members, including the Chairman, I speak as one committed to the EU concept. We have always spoken against Euroscepticism but, unfortunately, it now appears some of the Eurosceptics have taken over. That is a dangerous development and should be watched very carefully. The delegates have a hard task ahead. Their job is now to rediscover the European objective and bring us back to where we were approximately ten years ago. One should remember it was not just the smaller countries that deviated from the course charted for them. The Stability and Growth Pact was deviated from by larger countries, countries much more powerful than Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal. We do not need history lessons. I do not wish to aggravate circumstances and I am quite sure what I have to say is of little consequence in any event, but wish to state very clearly that I am concerned. I am concerned because I, as with other members present, have been a long-time supporter of the European concept, which concept is beginning to wane because of the activities of people within the Union who should know better.

Everything the Deputy says is always of considerable consequence. There is to be a vote on the Private Members' Bill at 12:45 p.m., which allows us approximately 20 minutes. I do not want to curtail any remarks but would like them to be confined to 20 minutes so the ambassadors will not have to return afterwards.

I apologise for having been absent for the presentations. There were three successive votes in the Seanad. I did not agree with them but that is democracy. I welcome the ambassadors and wish them well in their successive Presidencies of the European Union.

I was at a very interesting presentation some weeks ago at the Institute of International and European Affairs in Dublin on the topic of EU-Chinese investment and relations. I was a little surprised to learn the European Union, as an entity, has no policy on trade with China. This was identified as one of the key omissions and barriers to much greater trade. There is currently trade between the European Union and China worth €1 billion per day. The member states involved, however, are usually larger countries such as Germany, France and the United Kingdom, which already have strong relations and bilateral trade agreements. All the other member states are losing out as a result because there is no EU-wide policy. This was pointed out clearly. The absence of a policy is a serious omission. The European Union must be outward looking and must work as an entity as opposed to allowing individual countries to benefit. During the ambassadors' Presidencies, will they advance an EU-wide policy arrangement with China? Are they open to this and what will they do about it? I look forward to hearing their responses.

I welcome the ambassadors. I agree with everything that has been said by the previous speakers. It would be unfair of me to ask about the perception of Ireland in the ambassadors' countries at present. What is the perception in their countries of the whole European project? I acknowledge the plans for the Presidency this year and into next year. They are welcome but will be overshadowed by the financial crisis in the eurozone and world economy at present.

Reference was made to the joint programme for CAP reform. This is particularly important to Ireland. Agriculture represents a success story in Ireland at present, despite all that is negative. Poland and Denmark are similar to Ireland in this regard. What are the views of the Government and the delegates on reform? What are their priorities and how do they differ from those of other member states, including Ireland?

I thank the ambassadors for their very fine presentation. I hope our reputation in the ambassadors' countries and within the Union has greatly improved as a consequence of the diplomatic efforts of our country to restore the work ethos that is representative of Irish culture. In times of adversity we do not shy away from a challenge. In that regard, we look forward to working with the ambassadors over the coming months and years under the various Presidencies.

As has been highlighted by previous speakers, the ambassadors are aware that agriculture and the agri-food sector are playing a key role in Ireland's export-led recovery. The recovery of the Irish economy is of strategic interest in the context of the recovery of the European Union model. In that regard, I ask the ambassadors to work very closely with the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food with regard to the CAP proposals.

Agriculture is of strategic interest in the context of the recovery of our domestic economy. Irish farm families spend approximately €8 billion per annum in the Irish economy, both on the farm inputs and farm services. Agriculture and the agri-food sector employ nearly 300,000 people. In the context of CAP reform, I ask the delegates to establish a strategic alliance with the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. They have a vested interest in ensuring the Irish economy recovers so it can play a full role in the European Union.

Farm incomes in Ireland are improving moderately as a consequence of rising demand on the world market but we need the support and co-operation of the delegates' member states, particularly with regard to disadvantaged area payments. Some 75% of Ireland's landmass is designated as disadvantaged. Bearing social solidarity in mind, I ask the ambassadors to identify with the need to support the distribution of specific payments to disadvantaged areas to ensure the relevant local economies can survive with the support of a revised CAP.

We look forward to the Presidency and the important role it will play in the context of the CAP negotiations. However there is a lot of work to be done. The delegation has a very important role in ensuring Ireland's economic recovery can be protected by our partners in Europe.

H.E. Marcin Nawrot

I understand we have only a few minutes left and while it will be almost impossible to answer all these questions, I believe some answers may be found in my speech, particularly with regard to the last question concerning agricultural policy. As I noted, we undoubtedly must combine market-based reform with continued support for less developed areas. The Common Agricultural Policy has served Europe very well but of course needs reforms. We must remember what is the common policy's purpose.

Regarding the financial crisis, it was raised several times by, among others, my colleague, the President of the European Parliament, who is a former Polish Prime Minister. He stated clearly there is no single solution for a single country. We must work together with full respect for special needs regarding taxation. Taxation is a form of local government everywhere and even in the United States, each state has a special taxation system. There are of course some common grounds and common standards about which we are talking in respect of business taxation. However, this does not mean we must use the same figures, although that may sound simple for many countries. At the same time, however, we cannot leave alone and separate our systems from one another because this is contradictory to the idea of a common Europe. As usual, a good compromise is crucial but there is no way to present any solution. However, to focus on the strength of the European Union, one must remember all the distinctions we must preserve, which also comprise cultural and economic diversity, which is crucial. In addition, I consider the issue of human rights to be crucial as there is no democracy, stability or progress to be found without respect for human rights. It is so fundamental to all that we must remember not to put aside this issue as human rights undoubtedly are crucial.

In respect of the European project, issues such as human rights and the Common Agricultural Policy are what the European project is about. It is about a common approach to the fundamental issues and common values. As Deputy Durkan noted, the European project has had many successes. Ireland is a good example for everyone of great success. We know a little about Irish history and the past 20 years have been a great success. I acknowledge there also has been a lot of failure from which we all must learn and we are not immunised from such failures. In the first instance, however, we must respect ourselves as the European Union and then we can begin to renovate. We must renovate our house and must consider what, in the case of the Lisbon treaty, we must change. However, we must respect and trust ourselves. We must believe in the project as otherwise this meeting simply does not make sense.

H.E. Niels Pultz

I agree the problem with the crisis is that it is highly complex and it is important to find a solution within the European framework. One problem is there are some differences in opinion as to what are the root causes and what are the correct instruments. However, we must continue to discuss this to find a solution in order that we can both find proper solutions for the countries involved and calm down the markets, which react extremely rapidly. My country is not a member of the euro but is part of the euro-plus pact. We also have taken an interest in the loan to Ireland last year via a bilateral loan to show solidarity and to demonstrate we believe Ireland is on the right track. Moreover, the last visit by the IMF-EU-ECB representatives demonstrated that Ireland is on the right track and sometimes is even ahead of it. This has been a positive development in the past year that has been recognised by my Government.

Equally, I agree with my Polish colleague in respect of human rights. I participated in the last meeting with Front Line approximately 18 months ago and was greatly impressed by the work. I met Mary Lawlor privately and commented on the fine work that organisation is doing. Europe, as Europe can, should and will take up these issues wherever relevant and possible in its common foreign policy.

H.E. Dr. M. Stavrinos

On the general issue of the European project, the entire concept of the European project was based on the principles of solidarity and collective responsibility. The idea for a Europe with two different gears was rejected and, therefore, each member state, as well as the EU institutions, must stand up to the challenges of the times and must contribute to overcoming the current difficulties and to achieving the goals set by the Union's forefathers. Ultimately, a good captain can be proved only by rough seas. The critical test for the Union is before us. Being by nature an optimist and a firm believer in the European project, I believe the EU will rise again to see brighter days and to bring back the dream of a wiser and more prosperous Europe. This will be achieved only through solidarity and burden sharing. If a single member of a family suffers, the entire family suffers.

As for relations with China, during our Presidency relations with China will be an important issue and trade with this significant country undoubtedly will be based on a more coherent and organised basis.

I thank the witnesses for the brilliant timing as the votáil in the Dáil is about to start. All members will agree the witnesses' contributions have been most informative and very interesting and members needed that information as close as possible to the beginning of their troika. Obviously, the joint committee will engage with the witnesses during the months ahead and look forward to engaging with them with regard to the many issues they already have put on the table and with which they intend to deal. I again thank the witnesses for their attendance and for being so frank. Members undoubtedly greatly enjoyed the meeting and acquired a great deal of valuable information.

Sitting suspended at 12.50 p.m. and resumed at 1.15 p.m.
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