JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 6 Apr 2005

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

Our next meeting is scheduled for next Wednesday. We had hoped that the Standards in Public Office Commission would be present, but it has indicated that the full group cannot attend. We have contacted the Irish Bank Officials Association to see if it can attend next Wednesday and we have received a preliminary indication that it will be present. That will be the main item on the agenda.

If members have further comments to pass on to the consultant preparing the report on the banking sector they can forward them through the committee secretariat by the end of next week. We want to finalise that report this month.

Deputy Burton

Will the committee make recommendations regarding National Irish Bank? For example, the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority is conducting a study on fitness and probity. If an ordinary person stole or evaded social welfare to the tune of €500 or €1,000 he or she might end up in court or even in jail. As a conclusion to our exercise concerning Allied Irish Banks and National Irish Bank will we make recommendations or express concerns about their behaviour?

It is astonishing that the report, which cost so much, does not reach a conclusion. Reading between the lines of what was put very carefully, I assume that the 19 people mentioned in the report left the bank on good terms with their full salaries intact. As recently as a couple of months ago some of them were recorded as working in other sectors of the financial services industry. Are we to accept that in effect they got away with all this, and that regarding ordinary bank customers who were coaxed into buying the CMI-type product on undertakings given by staff that the money so deposited would be safe from the hands of the Revenue, all this just passes as more water — and money — under the bridge, with yet another inquiry?

Chairman

If the Deputy wants a response included in the ongoing report on banking which we hope to conclude this month, she may submit the question. We will then consider it before concluding our report. We are free to include a response as part of our consideration. We ask that the transcript of today's meeting be made available to the consultant preparing the report because he would not have sight of this matter up to now.

Deputy Burton

Mr. Appleby, as director of corporate enforcement, should be asked what conclusions he has reached. He has had seven or eight months to consider the matter and should tell us if he has reached a conclusion. Moreover, IFSRA, in drawing up its fitness and probity regulations, should look at the matter because there is a serious question as to whether people who have been specifically named and identified in a report should be working, perhaps without supervision, in another area of banking. We do not know the answer to that.

Chairman

We will agree to write to Mr. Appleby.

Deputy N. O’Keeffe

The clear provision is that if these people committed any act of a criminal nature, they would be investigated by the Garda fraud squad. This committee should not assume the role of the police. Those involved in criminal activity, fraud, larceny and so on are usually investigated by the Garda. That is its function. I am sure that at this stage the Revenue Commissioners have investigated AIB and the other banks and would have called in the police authorities if they thought there were irregularities.

Deputy Burton

I am not asking that we be police. The army of regulators, which cost taxpayers a lot of money, has been pondering the issue for a long time. They could certainly play the part of Hamlet any day of the week because they have spent so long thinking about the matter. It is quite legitimate to ask if they have reached a conclusion.

Chairman

That is not unreasonable. The report has been in circulation for several months. It is not unreasonable to ask either body for its current position. We do not expect them to disclose information from their investigations, but they could give us an update if there is one. It is not unreasonable to ask for an update from them before we sign off on our report.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.45 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 13 April 2005.