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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 20 Feb 2003

Vol. 1 No. 7

East Timor: Presentation.

I welcome to the meeting Mr. Tom Hyland of the East Timor Solidarity Campaign and assure him that all of the committee members present are friendly to him. Mr. Hyland is probably the healthiest looking person in the room with his East Timor tan. It is a good advertisement for tourism.

Mr. Hyland has been invited to address the committee on the situation in East Timor which finally became independent in May last year after many years of struggle. Before we commence, I remind the meeting that committee members enjoy absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee and remind members that there is a long standing practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official by name, in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Hyland to begin his presentation which will be followed by a question and answer session.

Mr. Tom Hyland

I am grateful for this opportunity to address the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on the question of East Timor. In addressing this committee, I am aware of and acknowledge the solidarity and support given by this body over the many years of the struggle for peace and justice in East Timor, at a time when most countries turned a blind eye to what was happening in Timor. The Timorese people are fully aware that Ireland stood up to more powerful countries in championing their struggle for self-determination.

I pay tribute to the Ireland Aid Mission in the East Timorese capital, Dili. It is a mission of which all of us can be proud. Its involvement in the human rights and democratisation sector is most welcome as well as its contribution to the Truth, Reception and Reconciliation Committee. Another area of involvement is poverty reduction. The extra funding given to East Timor under the direction of the former Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Donnell, was a welcome gesture at the time of independence. I pay tribute to agencies such as Concern and Trócaire which are implementing development activities on the ground. The work of both agencies in the areas of food, water and healthcare is vital in reducing the poverty levels. By far the most pressing problems in health are malaria and tuberculosis.

East Timor became fully independent on 20 May 2002. It was an honour for me to be there on the day and to accompany my many Timorese friends to Tacitoulu, where the celebrations took place. The Irish Government was well represented by the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. David Andrews, Mr. David Donoghue of Ireland Aid and other officials. Ireland has properly established diplomatic relations with the government in Dili and I was delighted to see the signing of agreements on this matter in New York recently. I hope that at some stage in the future both Governments can look at the possibility of opening up on-the-ground diplomatic representation in both countries.

In addressing the committee, I am conscious of the different role of the East Timor-Ireland Solidarity Campaign. In many ways, we have pulled back from our engagement in the political life of East Timor. This is now a matter for the Timorese people and their elected representatives. However, the campaign has been asked by the Timorese to remain engaged with the evolving situation in the territory. We are engaged with the education and health sectors in Timor. I thank the Ireland Aid programme for its continued commitment to the campaign on this matter. Our education project is also supported by Concern and Trócaire.

At this stage, I would like to make a personal comment. I am at present an English language teacher in East Timor and can inform the committee that some of the Timorese are now speaking with Dublin accents. I live with a Timorese family in the capital, Dili. I find the work extremely rewarding as I work with students whose thirst for knowledge is impressive. They know that education is vital to them in attempting to break out of the cycle of poverty that is part of their lives. However, it is a two way process and I am still learning on many fronts. I am coming to a better understanding of a culture that is rich and engaging. In many ways, I am at home there. The Timorese, like the Irish, are a friendly and welcoming people.

East Timor is the newest nation in the world and less than one year old. It is governed by its own democratically elected government but still retains a UN mission, UNMISET. There is a large number of UN troops and police working alongside their Timorese counterparts in maintaining internal security as well as providing security along the border with Indonesian West Timor. It is worth remembering that some 20,000 Timorese remain in West Timor. Many of these are there of their own choice.

I would like to mention the ongoing trials in Jakarta. Members of the committee may remember that Indonesians and their militias laid waste to East Timor in 1999. Enormous destruction was caused to homes and buildings and hundreds, if not thousands, of Timorese people were killed. It is estimated 250,000 people were driven into West Timor and another 250,000 took refuge in the mountains. The international community, through the United Nations, demanded justice following the liberation of East Timor. The Indonesian Government agreed to put those responsible on trial, but their efforts have been lamentable. Justice has not been delivered, other than the sentencing of a couple of Timorese militia members. The generals, who were responsible, seem to be intent on ensuring that the international community will not see justice done. Many of those responsible for the crimes we witnessed are now serving in West Papua and Aceh.

Poverty is by far the most important issue facing the Timorese people. East Timor is the poorest country in Asia and will need the help of the international community for the foreseeable future. While it is hoped that the long-term survival of the country will be boosted by its offshore oil deposits, it is depressing that the Australian Government, led by Mr. Howard, has stated that it will refuse to recognise any ruling by the International Court of Justice in determining maritime boundaries. East Timor's small coffee crop earns it a small amount of foreign currency, but it is worth remembering that international coffee market prices are less than they were some years ago. Although East Timor has the potential for a lucrative tourist sector, it lacks the infrastructure to cater for the luxury end of the market. Ethical tourism and eco-tourism are being developed at the moment and both of these areas show promise. Tourism in East Timor will need to take account of the culture of the Timorese people, however.

East Timor, now officially called Timor Leste, is in a similar position to that of Ireland following its independence. It has an elected President, Mr. Xanana Gusmao, and an elected Assembly. The country is still coming to terms with democracy after years of domination by its closest neighbour. I understand the East Timorese Government is taking steps to address the issue of local government. This is an important step in addressing the concerns of many people who believe that local communities need to be involved in the political process. There are more than 15 political parties in the country and at least seven have elected members. The involvement of the Timorese people in elections is striking, as over 90% of them have taken part in the democratic process through the ballot box.

The first serious case of civil disturbance since independence took place in East Timor in December 2002. An arrest by the police of a high school student led to street demonstrations which were aggravated by a heavy handed police response. More than 25 demonstrators were shot and two were killed, which led to large scale rioting and looting. Shops, hotels and property owned by the Prime Minister were targeted. A number of factors need to be examined as part of any attempt to find out what went wrong. One should remember that the benefits of independence are painfully slow in coming for most people in East Timor. The homes of most people were destroyed by the Indonesian military and their proxy militias following the 1999 independence vote. Many public buildings, such as schools and clinics, were destroyed and although many have been repaired, much remains to be done.

The greatest concern for most people is that very few job opportunities are available. The Government in Dili is preparing legislation on land and property and it is difficult to foresee any meaningful outside investment and job creation until that legislation is in place. The Foreign Affairs Minister, Dr. Jose Ramos-Horta, has stated that nation building will be much more difficult than had been envisaged. Many young people cannot afford the fees needed to continue their studies and worry that there will be no jobs for them when they have finished their education. I am sure the committee understands the difficulties of students who have little or no means of earning money while seeking to improve themselves through further education. In a year or so, many Timorese will have finished their education but will have little or no prospect of employment.

An added difficulty for the East Timorese Government is the country's lack of a proper communications network. The fact that it is extremely difficult to disseminate information to outlying towns and villages means many people in such areas feel neglected by the Government. Many people have told me that they sometimes feel they are outside the political process. It is to be hoped that the forthcoming legislation on local government will go some way towards addressing the concerns of people in villages and hamlets. The disturbances in December 2002 lasted only one day and I believe that lessons have been learnt by all concerned. The issues of unemployment and access to information for people in the districts are important in ensuring that the incident on 4 December is not repeated.

One would need a crystal ball to predict East Timor's future, but we can be sure that development and poverty reduction will take longer than originally envisaged by many. East Timor is making slow but steady progress on the political front, but progress on the economic front will be a little slower. It is important to understand that people must see and feel the benefits of independence if the reconciliation process in East Timor is to succeed. The problem of dealing with the social trauma will take longer and be much more painful if the people of East Timor lack the means to educate their children and access to clean water and are unsure of how they will feed their families.

Ireland could do many things to assist East Timor. We could offer one or two people from the East Timorese Foreign Ministry the chance to come to Ireland to undertake internships at the Department of Foreign Affairs. Some training that has been offered by other Governments has been accepted by the Timorese. Such a practical initiative would expose East Timor to Western diplomacy. I do not need to point out the benefits to both countries. I ask the joint committee to explore this possibility with the Minister, Deputy Cowen.

East Timor needs proper exposure to the technology of globalisation as it takes its rightful place among the nations of the world. Globalisation takes many forms, but trade and communications are an integral part of it. Ireland has encountered the circumstances faced by East Timor. Our information technology expertise could play a huge role in the future development of East Timor. The Departments of Foreign Affairs and Enterprise, Trade and Employment could collaborate on initiatives that would benefit both countries. I am sure the government in Dili would welcome such a move.

I hope I have kept my statement short. I can elaborate on any of the issues I have raised during the question and answer session. I pay tribute to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for its support and solidarity over the years, particularly during the 1999 referendum when it played an important role in helping to provide a United Nations presence on the ground. This will never be forgotten by the people of East Timor. I thank members of the committee again for the opportunity to address them and I earnestly ask that they stay engaged with the East Timor issue.

I thank Mr. Hyland for a comprehensive briefing on developments in East Timor in recent times. I would like to comment on one or two matters before I allow members of the committee to ask questions.

Mr. Hyland mentioned that Ireland can play a huge part in developing East Timor's information technology expertise. The Select Committee on Foreign Affairs has just passed a motion to approve the terms of an agreement to establish the Agency for International Trade Information and Co-operation as an intergovernmental organisation. The matter will be finalised in the Dáil. I ask Mr. Hyland to keep in touch with the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, whom he knows fairly well, in relation to this matter. The intergovernmental agency will provide money for advice on technology and the development of systems, so it may be able to help East Timor to bring down the moneys that are available from various quarters. Some 55 nations will ultimately be part of the agency, but Ireland is one of its founding sponsors. Money has been set aside as part of the establishment process. East Timor, which received €2.786 million from Ireland Aid last year, will receive about €3 million from that quarter this year. I mention the new agency as Mr. Hyland raised the idea that Ireland could help East Timor in terms of IT.

In Mr. Hyland's opinion, Ireland could offer to accept one or two East Timorese Foreign Ministry officials as interns at the Department of Foreign Affairs. The committee will certainly put that idea to the Department. It should present no difficulty and might be regarded as a positive result of his visit here today.

I welcome Mr. Hyland, whom we all know very well. He has been a strong voice for the people of East Timor through many difficult years and he single-handedly kept the issue to the fore by briefing Deputies and Senators. In so doing, he helped to inform Government policy over a long period, particularly during our last Presidency of the European Union. Very important initiatives were taken at that time by the then Minister, former Deputy Dick Spring.

As the process of nation building begins in Timor Leste, reconciliation needs to be fostered. Mr. Hyland outlined the regrettable failure of the judicial system to bring people to justice for atrocities committed prior to independence. People must see that militias and those who committed atrocities are brought to justice in order to be reconciled, to forgive, to move on and to build their nation. I would like Mr. Hyland to comment on that.

Much aid is being given to a small country, with admittedly great needs. To what extent does Mr. Hyland agree the co-ordination of that aid is important to ensure that a coherent development programme is put in place under the auspices of the Timorese Government? Ireland has long been a supporter of East Timor and our relationship is moving towards one of co-operation with a priority country in a long-term development programme. To what extent are the various donors co-ordinated? Portugal is a very strong donor and there might be ways in which we could co-operate to a greater extent as we develop education, health and water programmes. There are many initiatives which would sustain the relationship between Ireland Aid and the building up of social sectors, but it would be appropriate for some of the young administrators creating facilities in East Timor to study at the Kimmage Manor centre for development studies. They could learn and share experiences with others from developing countries.

I remember hearing at the time of independence that exchequer revenue would be generated from oil reserves within three or four years. What is happening in relation to that?

We will take questions from two committee members at a time.

Reference was made to the position of the Howard Government with regard to the oil reserves. Those of us who remember the John Pilger documentary will remember the detail of the scandalous agreement between Australia and Indonesia. Does that agreement still have legal effect? Is it what the Howard Government is hiding behind at the moment?

Under the south east Europe stability pact, there is provision for exchange programmes among local authorities here and those in the former-Yugoslavia, now known as Serbia and Montenegro. Carlow County Council has taken on board the development of local government structures through the exchange of personnel with the city of Nis in Serbia. Westmeath and Meath County Councils will also undertake initiatives in this area. Exchange at a higher level was mentioned, but it might also be something to pursue in the context of the development of local government. Local authorities have valuable expertise at their disposal and I am sure they would prove very sympathetic to proposals of this kind. Regarding Deputy O'Donnell's reference to administrators coming here, an exchange in the other direction might be a good idea.

Mr. Hyland

A truth, reconciliation and reception committee has been established in East Timor with the help of Ireland Aid funding. The committee is meeting with villagers and townspeople to get their input and to find out what they want from it. Deputy O'Donnell was right to raise the issue of what is happening in Jakarta. We speak to Timorese of justice and reconciliation, but the most important issue for them is Jakarta. They hear reports of Indonesian generals and other officers attending courts in Jakarta with crowds demonstrating against the trials outside on the streets. Many Indonesian generals sit at the front of court rooms to intimidate judges and prosecutors. Sentences have been handed down to militia members, one of whom was the former governor whom David Andrews, the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, and I met. He was sentenced to ten years, but will probably not go to prison. Eurico Guterres, another militia leader and youth co-ordinator of Indonesia's governing party, will probably never go to prison either. The Timorese do not want revenge for what happened, they want to see justice done, but many of the officers responsible for the crimes in question are in West Papua and Aceh. Some signal must be sent to them. It will probably take another six months to come up with a report setting out the direction of the truth and reconciliation process.

Kimmage Manor has an excellent development studies programme which would be very suitable for East Timorese administrators. East Timor is being built from the ground up and any assistance in terms of bringing students to Kimmage would be very welcome. The Timorese are to be robbed of their oil once again, this time by the Australian Government. There are a couple of small oil fields and one large one. The larger field, which is estimated to hold $20 billion worth of oil, is the one in dispute. When the maritime boundaries were drawn up, the field was given to Australia as a gift for its recognition of Indonesia's occupation of East Timor. The Timorese want the maritime boundaries redrawn and have said they will go to the International Court of Justice for a decision. Australia has said it will not recognise any ruling by the court on the matter. As agreement has not yet been reached on the bigger oil field it is doubtful that we will see any revenues coming from that in the next three years. The Timorese Government is faced with the might of the Australian Government and the petroleum companies and it is clear who is in the position of power here. Given their government's previous record in East Timor, the Australian people should ask that their government re-think its policy which does them no favours at all on the international stage.

Ireland is involved with a local government programme in East Timor, which is very welcome. This is an indication of how trusting the Timorese are of the Irish. I am not sure how more powerful nations and agencies view such links. The Irish were asked to give the lead in regard to decentralisation and the development of local government rather than one of the international financial institutions or one of the larger countries such as the United States, Australia, Germany or France.

I am grateful to Senator Mooney for the point he raised. I was unaware of this programme but am interested in learning more about it. Hopefully there will be opportunities for internships so that Timorese can study here as well as for officials at local government level. Such links are vitally important. The similarities between our two countries are extraordinary, not just in how we are as a people but also our sad and tragic histories with our closest neighbours. I never dispute with anyone who refers to East Timor as the Ireland of the Spice Islands because the connections are there.

I want to return to the question of oil because it seems the oil reserves are the route to prosperity for this country. I accept we should be as helpful as we can in regard to supporting the efforts made to promote it as a tourism destination and build up its infrastructure. According to the briefing note the amounts involved here could be enormous. There is potential for a return of $4 billion dollars a year for the next 30 years. Such money would resolve many of their economic problems over a period of time.

An agreement with Australia was made last July but there is also an outstanding matter before the International Court of Justice. Is there sufficient expertise in international law available in East Timor? This would be vital given the importance of a favourable resolution to the future of the country.

Mr. Hyland

They probably do need help. Recently the President or the Foreign Minister spoke of the undeveloped state of the legal establishment in East Timor. At the moment courts are staffed by inexperienced judges and prosecutors. Another difficulty with which they have to deal is the number of languages. If Ireland had any expertise in maritime boundaries, that would be welcomed.

It would also be helpful if Ireland was to bring moral pressure to bear on the Australian Government, as was done by our Ministers for Foreign Affairs in previous times when they lost no opportunity in publicly disagreeing with Australia on its policy.

The Timorese see the oil reserves as having potential for the future but they also see dangers inherent in it. They are trying to come to terms with being suddenly swamped with massive amounts of money. By far the most important issue, as they see it, is to clear up the issue of boundaries. Timor desperately needs resources and it is currently living on charity. It largely depends on donations apart from the income from the coffee crop. There are very few tourists going there and the only export which brings in foreign revenue is coffee, which is a small industry. Oil revenues form a huge part of future planning.

There is a five year plan in place for local government and education but no provision for where the budget will come. The East Timorese are hopeful that the Australians will speed up the process but the Australians are in the driving seat. The East Timorese are hoping for a change of heart by Prime Minister Howard and Foreign Minister Downer. Most of the oil that will be taken from the Timor Sea will be going to Darwin for refining. Many of the jobs will, therefore, end up in Australia rather than in East Timor.

The development of East Timor will be painfully slow. Unemployment is a big problem. The Australian Government needs to be much more sympathetic to this cause.

Under the agreement that was mentioned, East Timor is to receive 90% of the tax revenues from the fields and the revenue is to come on-stream after 2004. Would that be an initial payment? The big money will obviously come from the oil itself and whoever owns it will benefit most from that. We had a conflict over Rockall in regard to a similar issue. Our case was helped by the presence of a civil servant, Mr. Mahon Hayes, who was an expert on the law of the sea.

Would it be possible to have an international commission look at this dispute? If Australia agreed to the involvement of the UN and the EU a group could be formed to help expedite the negotiations. Legal process can take a significant amount of time whereas it should be possible to come to an arrangement going beyond the one from July 2001.

Mr. Hyland

If I may quickly respond in regard to the question of the disputed oil field. What Australia has done is disgraceful. It has offered 90% of the small one to East Timor while suggesting it takes 80% of the big one. It appears that East Timor is getting a lot but the vast deposits in regard to the other oil field is not mentioned. All legal experts have agreed that the oil is the property of East Timor. The Timorese are not claiming everything. They want to negotiate a fair deal. Investment has to be made for exploration reasons. They are asking us to open our hearts and be realistic about the negotiations. They do not want to be told that we want 80% and will not recognise the jurisdiction of the court.

I mentioned the question of an international commission and we might look at that afterwards. Members will be interested in the information you have given us about it.

I pay tribute to Tom Hyland. He knows how much I respect his work and I think it is great that he has established continuity. Regarding the law of the sea, Ireland could be of assistance by giving an undertaking to sponsor the case. The Commission follows the hearing. I understand the advancing of the Rockall case was inconclusive but the expertise is available.

We have met the Australian ambassador before and people expressed very warm feelings towards him. This committee could, through him, put more pressure on Mr. Howard. While Mr. Howard may be reactionary and negative on this issue it does not mean we should not seek to influence him.

I understand that in the days before the very welcome declaration of independence, some conditions were attached to aid to East Timor. I understand the government, at the request of the United States, signed immunity from the international criminal court as the price of receiving aid. Is this a fact?

Mr. Hyland

I am not sure if that is a fact. East Timor was the third country to sign this after Israel and Romania. It could be the case.

It is extraordinary pressure to put on a small emerging country.

If a country knows it is going to receive money it can start to invest in education and health services. Education is one the key instruments for development. We will see what we can do to assist in this.

Tom Hyland epitomises the degree to which one person can do much to change the world. The East Timor Ireland Solidarity Campaign was one of the driving forces worldwide; it was an incredible achievement.

The briefing note told us the East Timorese were to get 90% of the tax revenue from this small gas field. Does this mean it is 90% of a level determined by the Australian Government? If the Australians are only getting 10% of the revenue from a small gas field they have no incentive to maximise tax revenue from it and can set it at whatever level suits their dealings with multinational firms.

I am interested in Mr. Hyland's perception of the state of relations between East Timor and Indonesia. I know the army is one of the biggest owners of property and business in Indonesia and it is extremely difficult to prosecute this powerful force. Apart from that, is there any evidence of a normalisation in relationships between East Timor and Indonesia?

Our briefing note tells us most current refugees are former militia members. Does this mean all those who fled during the period of terror have returned and a new category of refugee has taken their place? Is East Timor capable of meeting its food needs in the short-term? Will it need food aid until its economy starts to run properly?

Mr. Hyland

The question of the tax is a bit technical and while I think it is as the Senator said I am not sure about that. I was in Indonesia at the end of last year and met, amongst others, many members of the democracy movement. Their understanding of the vote for independence in 1999 is at odds with what we know. They were presented with East Timor being grabbed by the international community. They were told the UN staged a vote to take East Timor away from Indonesia. Osama bin Laden has totally rejected East Timor's independence and has called for it to be reunited with Indonesia.

Indonesia is a fabulous country with wonderful people. Unfortunately, its military shows scant regard for the welfare of its people. East Timor has gone a long way in trying to understand the sometimes genuine pain in Indonesia about what happened. Indonesia invaded East Timor and illegally occupied it but most Indonesians do not see it this way. East Timor has established diplomatic relations and recently appointed an ambassador to Indonesia. East Timor has told the Indonesians that it is trying to understand their concerns.

The echoes of Suharto remain. There are dreadful generals who give only a begrudging acceptance to East Timor's independence. Many in Jakarta feel the success of East Timor would send the wrong message to West Papua and Aceh. I do not think East Timor will be invaded again - the international community would not accept that. There is an element within the Indonesian military that does not want East Timor to succeed. It is up to the international community to support East Timor and support the pro-democracy movement in Indonesia.

Many of the refugees in West Timor are families of militia. I spoke to many Timorese about this. If a village chief was intimidated he will be with his people in West Timor. The culture of the Timorese people would indicate that many of the refugees do not want to be stuck in West Timor. However, it is also part of their culture that they cannot move back to East Timor until their village suko or chief decides to return as they would feel abandoned. Many people, including people who were forced to go to West Timor, have been repatriated. Militia leaders have also returned to the community and there have been no instances of militia leaders or members being attacked or killed. However, it is very difficult to track down a number of people who were forcibly removed from East Timor and dispersed throughout Sulawezi.

On the question of the food needs of East Timor, while there is no starvation, the country still imports a huge amount of rice. The diet of East Timor is rice, corn and some meat. While it is not yet self-sufficient in food production, it should become so in the next few years. There is a significant degree of squalor around the area where I live. Many people in the city who have no food depend on relatives from outlying districts bringing them some rice or corn. The culture is perhaps similar to our culture many years ago in the sense that people from the countryside who have moved to Dili and have no jobs or food are taken care of by relations outside the city who bring them food. We used to have a similar attitude here when communities took care of each other.

I join my colleagues in congratulating Mr. Hyland on his tremendous achievements in East Timor. He has already answered a question I wanted to ask concerning the fate of 20,000 East Timorese who moved to West Timor, some of them by choice.

Mr. Hyland is a teacher and I am a former vocational teacher. The Vocational Education Act is among the more enlightened legislation passed by the Houses. When I started teaching some time ago, the agricultural science and woodwork teachers in my small, rural vocational school were contracted to teach farmers how to build farmhouses and supervise outbuildings. Could the East Timorese learn from the Department of Education and Science in terms of the practical side of education? Vocational schools certainly helped build a rural structure here.

Mr. Hyland

As I said earlier, we have a unique relationship with East Timor. I am conscious that we are two independent countries. Our campaign is trying to find a little niche for ourselves. The Timorese have asked us to maintain our engagement for several more years and not to walk away too early. I acknowledge the tremendous role played by Ireland Aid, which operates under the Department of Foreign Affairs, in East Timor. I can say without fear of contradiction that the Ireland Aid programme is the best programme on the ground. I pay tribute to it.

Around 90% of the population of East Timor live in hamlets and villages. When we talk of democracy and reconciliation, the people say they want to hear about food. They want to hear about reconciliation but they also want to know how they will be able to feed their families in six months time or find the fees to send their children to secondary school. For them, the practical issues are education, health and food. The way we built up our agricultural economy offers opportunities for East Timor, which the Ireland Aid programme could explore.

I thank Mr. Hyland. As he will have noted, we could continue this discussion for some time. His interesting presentation has given us a good insight into what is currently happening in East Timor. I thank him and wish him well in his work. The committee will follow up some of the points raised during the discussion, including Deputy Michael Higgins's suggestions that Ireland sponsor the case on maritime boundaries and invite the Australian ambassador to come before us to discuss the matter. We will also pursue my suggestion on a commission on oil and the proposals with regard to internships and AITIC, which arose from our work this morning. The importance of education exchange was also raised.

Mr. Hyland noted the value of the work being done by Ireland Aid and paid tribute to the organisation. I thank him on its behalf. He also noted that education, health and food are the country's priorities and spelt out the position with regard to food. I thank him again for attending the meeting and wish him continued success with his work. As Senator Ryan said, thank you for being Tom Hyland.

From next Monday onwards, he will be Dr. Tom Hyland courtesy of the University of Limerick.

Congratulations.

The joint committee went into private session at 1.10 p.m. and adjourned until 12.15 p.m. on Tuesday, 25 February 2003.

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