Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Dec 2006

Cluster Munitions: Presentation.

The joint committee meets to discuss the issue of cluster munitions with Mr. Tony D'Costa of Pax Christi Ireland. I repeat what I said before Mr. D'Costa came in. I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege in respect of utterances made in committee, witnesses appearing before the committee do not enjoy absolute privilege. Accordingly, caution should be exercised, particularly with regard to references of a personal nature.

I welcome Mr. D'Costa, Secretary General of Pax Christi Ireland, to the meeting to discuss the issue of cluster munitions. Pax Christi International is a Catholic peace movement with national sections in all continents. Its activities are mainly related to the issues of security and disarmament, human rights, East-West relations, north-south relations, peace education, peace spirituality, non-violence, faith and dialogue, and reconciliation. Pax Christi is open to all and works with other peace movements in all areas of peace making.

Pax Christi began working in Ireland in 1958. In recent times Pax Christi Ireland has been involved in issues relating to landmines, explosive remnants of war, small arms and light weapons, child soldiers, nuclear disarmament and other weapons of mass destruction. It has been involved with issues related to the Middle East, East Timor, Tibet and Bougainville. It has been engaged in the promotion of peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland. It has consultative status with the United Nations, UNESCO, UNICEF and the Council of Europe. It is the recipient of the 1983 UNESCO Prize for Peace Education and of the 1987 UN Peace Messenger Award.

The issue before us today is cluster munitions. Cluster munitions still lack a clear internationally agreed definition. However, they are generally understood to be air carried or ground launched dispensers that contain submunitions. Each dispenser is designed to eject submunitions containing explosives which detonate on, prior to, or immediately after impact on its target. There can be doubt that cluster munitions constitute a great danger, not just during hostilities but also in post-conflict situations. The area effect, which is what makes these weapons so desirable to the military, is what makes them so hazardous for civilians.

Cluster munitions give rise to grave humanitarian concerns for two reasons. These munitions are characterised by a high rate of failure, creating a lasting problem of the explosive remnants of war which can have indiscriminate effects on civilians. A large volume of munitions delivered on each individual firing can result in a wide footprint in the target area. This gives rise to concerns that when these weapons are used in or close to concentrations of civilians, they offend against the general rules of international humanitarian law.

Information on the use of cluster munitions from recent war zones such as Iraq and southern Lebanon is highly disturbing. Their widespread use in those conflicts through ground-launched systems in heavily built-up and densely populated areas has had disastrous results for civilians living in those areas. Moreover, clearing these weapons is especially difficult in terms of cost, manpower and the safety of those charged with clearing them.

Ireland has taken a strong position with respect to calling for action on cluster munitions. We have done so within the framework of the convention on certain conventional weapons and it is something of which we can be proud. Pax Christi has also played a prominent role in seeking to eliminate cluster munitions. I call on Mr. Tony D'Costa of Pax Christi to make his presentation on cluster munitions.

I have to attend another meeting and I apologise for hopping in and out. I have read Mr. D'Costa's submission and I am fully supportive of it. I will convey the information to my party's spokesmen.

I greatly regret that I am in a similar position. I need to attend the Order of Business in the Seanad, but I will return.

Thank you. Perhaps Mr. D'Costa could now commence his presentation.

Mr. Tony D’Costa

I am most grateful to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for giving me this opportunity to raise the issue of cluster munitions. For the past 40 years these weapons systems have been devastating the lives and livelihoods of thousands of people in many parts of the world. Our public conscience and spirit of humanity dictate that it is time the international community prohibited the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of these weapons once and for all.

On a number of occasions during the campaign to ban landmines, I had the opportunity to raise the issue of landmines and blinding laser weapons with this committee. Its support for that work was most crucial. The Irish Government played an important role on the landmines issue. Protocol II to the convention of conventional weapons dealing landmines was strengthened in 1996. A legally binding instrument on blinding laser weapons came into being, and in 1997 a new treaty, commonly known as the Ottawa treaty, emerged prohibiting the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of anti-personnel landmines. I wish to thank the committee for its interest and contribution towards securing these goals.

In April 2003, a conference on the explosive remnants of war organised by Pax Christi Ireland and hosted by the Government at Dublin Castle, drew government and civil society representatives from 39 countries and made an important contribution towards securing a protocol on the explosive remnants of war in November 2003. At that conference, interest converged to address the issue of cluster munitions comprehensively and a new international initiative emerged. On behalf of the innocent and silently suffering people whose lives are being devastated, I urge this committee to spare no effort on securing a comprehensive ban on cluster munitions on the grounds that they violate international humanitarian law and have consistently proven indiscriminate. The Ottawa treaty and the protocols to the CCW are now part of international humanitarian law. A legally binding instrument is urgently required on cluster munitions.

Cluster munitions are weapons in a container containing between dozens and hundreds of submunitions that can be dropped from the air or fired by artillery or rockets. The container breaks open to deliver the submunitions over a wide area covering one to three football fields. They explode just before, on or after impact. I have circulated to members a picture of a BL-755 cluster bomb used in Afghanistan. On detonation, these bombs, which are designed to disable tanks and kill people, blast a jet of molten copper, a ball of fire and 2,000 steel fragments. Some 147 of these items disperse when the container opens in mid-air, covering an extensive area. Delivery altitude, weather conditions and types of terrain affect their functioning, in addition to other aspects related to design, storage and handling. Their intensive use as a means to compensate for failure rates results in high concentrations of unstable and dangerous bomblets that are primed to go off when disturbed.

The story of Adnan, who is from Kosovo, will give us a picture of what happens on a daily basis in countries and regions contaminated by cluster munitions. On 17 August 1999, three months after the NATO strikes, Adnan and his family went for a swim in a lake a few kilometres from his village. Adnan, who was nearly seven years of age at the time, happened to find a yellow can on the bank. He brought the can home, innocent of the fact that it was an unexploded BLU-97 cluster bomb. Adnan's 17 year old brother, Gazmend, dropped the can, causing it to explode and kill Gazmend and his father on the spot and injuring Adnan's left arm and leg. When his sister, Sanije, went to the site to retrieve possessions that the family had left behind in the midst of the confusion, she stepped on a cluster bomb and was instantly killed. Adnan now lives with his older sister and mother on his late father's €62 monthly pension. Similar tragic events are caused in many parts of the world by landmines, cluster bombs and other unexploded ordnance.

I wish to briefly discuss the Indochina war. Versions of BLU cluster munitions were extensively used in aerial bombardments by the US which left a deadly legacy of post-strike contamination in Cambodia, Vietnam and the Lao PDR. In Cambodia, bombings took place between 1969 and 1973 which resulted in 1.92 million to 5.77 million cases of submunition contamination based on a 10% to 30% failure rate of cluster munitions, although it is generally agreed that the approximate failure rate was in the region of 30%. Similarly, Vietnam accounts for between 7 million and 31.2 million cases of contamination from bombing strikes between 1965 and 1973, while the Lao PDR suffered between 20.9 million and 62.6 million cases between 1964 and 1973.

In the recent conflict in Lebanon it is estimated by the UN that the submunition contamination of southern Lebanon could be as high as 1 million. Some 90% of cluster munitions were fired in the last 72 hours before the ceasefire. In a month, the UN identified 519 cluster munition strike locations and the Lebanese armed forces also identified hundreds more strike areas. Lebanon was already contaminated by mines, cluster bombs and other unexploded ordnance from various incursions. It will take very many years for Lebanon to free its land from contamination that will continue to claim victims for years to come, undermining the post-conflict rehabilitation and economic recovery of the affected areas.

The Under-Secretary General for Humanitarian Affairs and emergency relief co-ordinator, Jan Egeland, has described the use of cluster munitions in Lebanon as shocking and immoral. Cluster munitions not only destroy lives but paralyse the affected community, destroying its infrastructure and livelihood. In affected parts of Lebanon summer crops, for example tobacco, wheat and fruit, could not be harvested and the same applied to olives in November. Winter grains and vegetables cannot be planted because the land cannot be ploughed until it is cleared. In many areas roads, schools, houses and gardens are all contaminated by cluster munitions.

The basic tenet of international humanitarian law is that the right of combatants to choose their means and methods of warfare is not unlimited. Over forty years of the use of cluster munitions, resulting in civilian deaths, and their impact on lives and livelihood during the conflict and post the conflict overstate the case for a total ban on cluster munitions as we know them. A recent study shows that 98% of victims of cluster munitions are civilians. The Belgian ban on cluster munitions came into force on 9 June 2006 and initiatives in various countries are under way to address the issue.

At the recent review conference of the convention on certain conventional weapons, CCW, a group of 25 countries, including Ireland, called for the prohibition of the use of cluster munitions within areas of civilian concentration and the prohibition of the development, production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions that pose serious humanitarian hazards because they are, for example, unreliable, inaccurate or both. The group also called for the destruction of stockpiles of cluster munitions that pose a serious humanitarian hazard.

Securing an effective instrument on cluster munitions within the framework of the CCW is seriously questioned. In a climate where there is a lack of serious political will to address the issue on the part of some countries, securing an effective instrument will be very difficult considering the CCW works on the basis of consensus. Just a small number of countries can prevent any final outcome after years of deliberations as occurred regarding mines other than anti-personnel mines, MOTAPM. Initiatives have been taken to explore the possibility of developing a legally binding instrument outside the CCW framework. Our failure to address the issue comprehensively would increase the proliferation and use of these weapons, exacerbating an already dire situation and this would have a detrimental impact on development in many parts of the world.

I urge the Irish Government to play a leading role in the following: securing a total prohibition on the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions through active participation in international initiatives to address the issue comprehensively and effectively; to enact a national law prohibiting the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions as we know them; to support research, publication and awareness raising initiatives on this subject nationally and internationally; to increase support for the clearance of contaminated land by landmines, cluster munitions and other unexploded ordnance; to increase support for risk education for the prevention of death and injury of vulnerable populations living in contaminated parts of the world; and to increase support for rehabilitation and social and economic integration of those injured by landmines, cluster munitions and other explosive ordnance.

I thank Mr. D'Costa for his very clear and informative presentation and his extremely clear delivery of it.

I greatly appreciate the Chairman's courtesy. I welcome Mr. D'Costa. I am very glad I was able to stay for his contribution which was absolutely clear. Cluster munitions are horrible. I am very glad he added in something that was not in the text of his written submission, namely, that 98% of the casualties are civilian. This makes cluster munitions a particularly obscene form of weaponry.

There is another point I would like to make before I must leave — and I intend no discourtesy. I understand there is a strong possibility that investment is made on behalf of the Irish taxpayers in some firms that produce cluster bombs. This is done through organs such as the National Pensions Reserve Fund. I have been raising this in the Seanad. I also had a meeting with the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Conor Lenihan, who was very positive on the question of ethical investment and divestment from, for example, Sudan. Irish taxpayers' money may be used in this way because of the way in which the remit of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and various other agencies is framed. They may be required to get the highest yield possible and there are no ethical guidelines. The Minister of State indicated that there is a non-binding, exhortative UN framework that it is hoped to abide by but he seemed not to be averse to the introduction of a specific ethical guideline into the remit of the National Pensions Reserve Fund. Has Mr. D'Costa any information on that or would he be prepared to assist us in finding out what the situation is?

These vicious weapons which are not particularly militarily effective and which are directed against the civilian population should be outlawed straight away. There is no moral justification and I very much doubt whether there is even a military justification for them. I would have thought that humanity would have learnt lessons from the tragic lesson of the Vietnam War. The most recent example of the use of cluster munitions was in Lebanon where in the past 72 hours of that tragic, unnecessary and, from the Israelis' point of view, suicidal engagement, a million cluster bombs were left behind. That is a reproach to the conscience of the decent people of Israel, and there are many of them.

I was very pleased that Mr. D'Costa put down a formula of what he would like us to do. I propose to put and amended version on the Order Paper and I hope it can be an all-party motion urging the Government to get involved. I am perfectly certain that our Government and our Minister for Foreign Affairs are as revolted as individual members of both Houses are. Supporting a motion is one practical thing we can do. We can only, however, give a moral lead because we are not a significant military power. Even though we have a strong economy our divestment from some of these companies would be only a pin prick. However, we may do some good by raising this as an issue. I was not an uncritical admirer of the late Princess Diana. However, she did two extremely valuable things; she embraced AIDS patients and stopped them being untouchable, and just as importantly, she led a campaign against these vicious and filthy weapons which are a reproach to humanity. I compliment Mr. D'Costa and Pax Christi on again raising this issue. I hope it will be taken up by both Houses of the Oireachtas. Perhaps the committee could examine this resolution and see if there is something in it that we could all agree to pass.

I endorse everything Senator Norris has said. It is my intention to bring the recommendations contained in Mr. D'Costa's excellent submission before the Fianna Fáil group in Seanad Éireann to establish whether there is consensus on introducing it in the Seanad as a Government motion. I appreciate that Senator Norris has indicated that he would incorporate elements of it in a motion and put it on the Order Paper. We can try to reach a consensus on this issue.

This is the most practical thing I can do. I have had a long interest in this area, mainly fuelled by my wife's cousin, a councillor in Manchester, who told me his local MP, alone among his Conservative Party colleagues, had been championing this cause. It should be noted that through its overseas development aid programme, the Government addresses the mines clearance issue. As far as I am aware, Ireland is contributing towards a mine clearing operation in Mozambique. I understand that it is an expensive process and that the millions of pieces of ordnance strewn in post conflict areas will take a long time to clear. I am not sure whether Pax Christi has ever undertaken an audit to estimate how long it will take to clear the ordnance.

I am glad that Mr. D'Costa raised the issue of cluster bombs dropped on Lebanon. I raised this issue with the incoming Israeli ambassador to Ireland in recent months. Regrettably, he hid behind the defensive wall that the dropping of cluster bombs is not internationally illegal. Sadly, as Mr. D'Costa pointed out, this is true. I was somewhat depressed that the ambassador hid behind the legalistic wall rather than acknowledging that it had brought enormous pain and suffering, as well as economic ruin, to south Lebanon. I find it ironic that on the one hand Israel and its proxy, the United States, would contribute billions of dollars towards the reconstruction of Lebanon, yet they contributed enormously to the destruction of that infrastructure in the first place.

What initiatives are being undertaken outside the convention on certain conventional weapons framework? I understand that a move is afoot among like-minded countries to establish some form of international consensus that may lead to banning these weapons. Perhaps Mr. D'Costa has more information on this. There are some encouraging signs that people are at last recognising this is outside the normal combatant environment in which military conflicts should take place. Senator Norris is much better than me at raising a rhetorical flourish on such issues. However, I am sure my colleagues share my distaste for this appalling form of warfare. I presume Mr. D'Costa is looking for action to accompany our fine words. I am full of admiration for his campaign because he seems to be going against the tide.

Why are high moral tones taken by leading military powers, such as America, Britain, France, Germany and Israel, when their military continues to promote and encourage the use of cluster bombs that kill civilians and destroy infrastructure? I am sure Mr. D'Costa will be unable to answer that conundrum but I think it important that the question is asked. I fully support the campaign and I am sure the Chairman will offer an opinion as to what this committee can do to help.

I took the trouble to ascertain the subscribing countries to the CCW proposal, which include Germany but not the United States, Britain or France. The 27 countries are Ireland, Austria, Sweden, New Zealand, Mexico, the Holy See, Argentina, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chile, Costa Rica, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Guatemala, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Peru, Portugal, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Switzerland.

The list does not include any major military powers.

The Czech Republic and Germany could be regarded as such. On 9 June 2006, Belgium passed a law banning the production and distribution of cluster munitions and negotiations are ongoing with certain other countries. However, that does not detract from the proposals made by Mr. D'Costa.

As I must leave for the Order of Business, I wish to express my support for any initiative taken by the committee on the issue. I am sure a proposal will be made that we should incorporate Mr. D'Costa's recommendations in some form of resolution.

I apologise for my late arrival — so much for Operation Freeflow — but I have had an opportunity to read Mr. D'Costa's submission. It is a great pity the occasional flurries of activity that take place on this issue peter out so quickly. Some years ago, I attended an IPU conference at which the Irish delegation was heavily lobbied by a Canadian Member of Parliament to adopt the Ottawa treaty. The Canadian MP, who, by coincidence, is a native of Dún Laoghaire and whose first name is Paddy, was passionate in arguing that we should do more on the issue. When we first returned from the conference, we were full of good intentions but I was reminded when reading Mr. D'Costa's presentation of how little we have actually done.

I support the broad thrust of the proposals on actions that could be taken by this committee, most of which are very practical. I have a particular interest in de-mining, an area in which we have some expertise. Our Defence Forces are stretched from time to time but we have, in many ways regrettably, built up expertise over the past 30 years or more in dealing with unexploded ordnance relating to terrorist activities. Perhaps, when the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, has an opportunity to examine our priorities, a small number of engineers could be dispatched to work with governments that need to build expertise in the area of de-mining. I suggest we ask the Minister to consider the possibility of appointing no more than ten Army experts to see how they might contribute to de-mining activities.

I was appalled, as were most people, to see the use of cluster bombs in the recent attacks on Lebanon. Their use is inexcusable and it is difficult to see how they can be regarded as being part of legitimate warfare. We must take what actions we can and I support research and raising awareness on the issue. Pax Christi must keep us alert to these matters because, though full of good intentions, we can find ourselves merely addressing emergencies as they arise.

I associate myself with the sentiments expressed by the previous two speakers and the Chairman and urge that we work with the Government to examine how Pax Christi's proposals can be implemented. Is it the opinion of Mr. D'Costa that there is value in pressing the Minister for Defence to make available the experts in the area of de-mining that are at our disposal? I am less conversant with the implications of cluster bombing but I presume we have similar expertise in that field.

We have developed a significant degree of expertise in orthopaedic medicine in Ireland and the Cappagh National Orthopaedic Hospital in my constituency is a centre of excellence for the replacement of limbs and so on. Many of the injuries from the weapons we have discussed are horrific and happen to very young children, as Mr. D'Costa's presentation pointed out. We could collaborate in the area of orthopaedic medicine with experts in regions where citizens have experienced such disabling injuries. Does Mr. D'Costa feel the State could play a useful role in this issue?

I welcome the pricking of our consciences that has occurred today because, from time to time, it is necessary.

I also apologise for being late and thank Mr. D'Costa for his presentation which I have read in detail. I assure Mr. D'Costa and Pax Christi that this committee has placed the issue of disarmament at the top of its agenda. We have followed the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, NPT, review conference, the lack of progress, the New Agenda Coalition and have had several meetings on the topic. Along with one or two other issues this is at the top of our agenda. The Ottawa treaty should be higher on our agenda. However, nuclear disarmament is at the top of our agenda. I am sure Mr. D'Costa would agree that small countries can play a role out of proportion to their size. Perhaps he would comment on that. We do not have big armies or weapons and we do not want them. We would prefer if the bigger countries did not have them either. Ireland has played a leading role in the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in the New Agenda Coalition. I am glad Mr. D'Costa was positive in regard to Ireland's role, but we could do more.

I am appalled by the Israeli cluster bombing of Lebanon. It should be condemned outright. I fully support the right of Israel to defend itself if attacked. I would never resile from that. However, any act of war or violence should, as far as possible, be contained among combatants and should not involve the civilian population. From what I know, and I do not claim to be an expert on it, the recent short war in southern Lebanon breached that principle. Our point of political contact with Israel is best seen through the EU-Israel agreements, one of the clauses of which is a human rights agreement. For many reasons, many people are now convinced that Israel is in breach of that clause of the association agreement. Does Mr. D'Costa have any views on that?

Some people would argue that it is better to have an association agreement with Israel and that it might do worse things if that agreement were not in place. However, it is unconscionable that we have this agreement with Israel and yet it can commit acts of atrocity such as this. How can we trade with a country one day and see it the next day committing acts like this on a civilian population? It is a difficult conundrum for us. I thank Mr. D'Costa for pricking our conscience again and putting this issue back at the top of the disarmament agenda.

I apologise for being late. I admire the work of Mr. D'Costa in drawing attention to this issue and trying to garner international support for the ban on cluster munitions. It is a worthwhile and praiseworthy objective. I hope this committee and our Government play a part in that. I strongly and fully support the recommendations in Mr. D'Costa's report.

There is great interest in and support on the committee for the work Mr. D'Costa has undertaken and the direction he wants to follow. By highlighting that the spread of cluster bombs as they come down can be as wide as one to three football pitches — I would have thought of them as covering an area of approximately 50 square yards — he has demonstrated how appalling they are.

There has been a good deal of comment on the work done on landmines, which is excellent. That work is continued by the HALO Trust and publicised by the late Princess Diana. The HALO Trust is a British NGO that Ireland also supports. However, it is only fair to recognise the major part played in the campaign against landmines by the former Deputy and Minister, Mr. Ray Burke, even before the late Princess Diana took it up. He campaigned on the issue. It brought it very much to attention here, and he insisted on the landmines issue being included in our party policy. Much of that will be on the record, but many people forget such records as time passes.

Members have said that we should pass a resolution reflecting the issues Mr. D'Costa has raised. We will urge the Government to play an important role in securing a total prohibition on the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions by active participation in international initiatives to address the issue comprehensively and effectively. We should seek to enact a national law prohibiting the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions as we know them. As far as we know, they are not produced in Ireland. The motion would also call on the relevant authorities not to invest Irish pension funds in companies involved in the production of cluster munitions. This issue has been raised here previously. The resolution would also support research, publication and awareness raising initiatives on this subject nationally and internationally, and ask Irish Aid to increase its support for the clearance of contaminated land by landmines, cluster munitions and other unexploded ordnance. It would also seek to increase support for mine risk education, and for the rehabilitation of mine survivors and their socio-economic integration.

Those are the important points raised by Mr. D'Costa and we will develop a resolution that reflects them. We will make representations to the Minister and others.

Mr. D’Costa

I am grateful for the support I have received from members present and I wish to make some concluding comments. I am not aware of the EU-Israel agreement and how it can be used to improve matters. One of the questions raised was on other initiatives under the CCW. The CCW operates on consensus and for the past few years we have been trying to agree a protocol on mines other than anti-personnel landmines, namely, anti-vehicle mines. Due to the resistance of five countries, we were not able to achieve a protocol this year. The same problem happened when we first sought a ban on landmines. The CCW reviewed and improved the protocol II, which relates to landmines, and tightened up certain things. However, we could not achieve an outright ban. A separate process developed at the time which led to the Ottawa convention. More than 150 countries have since signed the Ottawa treaty. We must universalise this treaty, but no country can block it. This is also why we need a separate process to address the cluster munitions issue. If we try to find a solution to the problem through the CCW it will take many years and we will not achieve anything substantial. If an agreement or protocol is reached, it will be weak and will only apply to ratifying countries. That has been the case in respect of the Protocol on Explosive Remnants of War. Some 30 countries, as well as Members of the Norwegian Parliament, have expressed interest in taking a separate initiative on cluster munitions, and the Norwegian Minister of Foreign Affairs will invite a number of states to participate at a meeting in Oslo in February to explore the possibility of developing such an approach.

In my request to the Government, I referred to cluster munitions as we know them. The main reason for prohibiting these munitions is their impact on civilian populations. If they did not adversely impact civilian populations, they would be acceptable. Discussions are ongoing on whether cluster munitions can be developed in which individual explosions can be more precisely targeted. However, as current forms of cluster munitions cannot focus on individual targets once they are opened, a different scientific approach will be needed. If targetable munitions with self-deactivating mechanisms and low or zero failure rates can be developed, they will no longer be categorised as the types of arms to which I refer. However, the cluster munitions currently in use in various parts of the world should be prohibited, with the support of strong humanitarian laws.

Ireland contributes a substantial amount of money to demining operations, victim rehabilitation and mine risk education. However, I would like the investment to be increased because there was a decrease in international spending on this area in 2004 and more money will be needed to continue the work of clearing landmines and other explosive remnants of war from affected parts of the world.

Ireland has played an exceptional role in respect of disarmament. I have been involved with nuclear disarmament and the new agenda coalition from its inception. Ireland was the first country to sign and ratify the Treaty on the Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and, with South Africa and Norway, was one of the countries responsible for the Ottawa treaty.

The Chairman referred to former Deputy Ray Burke, who introduced a Private Members' Bill, which built on the Explosives Act 1875. That is why we had the unilateral ban on landmines before the Ottawa treaty and why Ireland was able to ratify the Ottawa treaty straight away. Mr. David Andrews signed the treaty on the day of the ratification and the instrument of ratification was submitted to Kofi Annan on that day. Ireland has played a very important role. My request is that Ireland bring about a unilateral ban. Of course, Ireland does not produce or use cluster munitions. The artillery system used by Ireland will not accommodate them. However, such a ban would create an impetus internationally for other countries to develop their legal agreements and laws within their own countries. For that reason my request is that Ireland pursues an initiative to introduce a unilateral ban on these weapons.

Thank you, Mr. D'Costa for your presentation. I thank members for their participation in this very interesting discussion. Mr. D'Costa's paper was helpful to all of us in highlighting the work he is doing and which we fully support.

Work on the elimination of cluster munitions is being done within the framework of the convention on conventional weapons and the third review conference of the CCW was held last month in Geneva. While the conference failed to agree on a cluster munitions proposal, which Ireland and 26 other countries supported, it nonetheless agreed to call a meeting of government experts for next June to address the issue. It is clear that Ireland, Pax Christi and those countries which support our view on the need to eliminate cluster munitions have much work to do in persuading others to join in the effort to rid the world of these awful weapons.

Vietnam has been included as one of Ireland's priority countries for aid and the committee will raise the matter of cluster munitions with Irish Aid, particularly in view of the horrific number of cluster bombs which remain in that country. The effect of these munitions was vividly illustrated by the story of Adnan, told to us by Mr. D'Costa. A similar tragedy occurred in Donegal many years ago when a mine which had come ashore exploded while some young fellows were playing around it and a number of the young people were killed or injured.

I thank you, Mr. D'Costa, for attending today's meeting. You can be certain the committee will take action. We have almost completed the drafting of a resolution on this issue. We will hold meetings with other ambassadors and will discuss the drafting of legislation with the Minister. I thank you again for coming. I must explain that several committees and both Houses are meeting at present. Some members of the committee were obliged to attend sittings of the Houses.

The Order of Business was on in both Houses.

However, I think Senator Norris made his point before he left.

The joint committee went into private session at 3.10 p.m. and adjourned at 3.20 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 12 December 2006.
Barr
Roinn