JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Jun 2008

Situation in Somalia: Discussion with Trócaire and Concern.

Chairman

I remind members and those in the Gallery to ensure that mobile telephones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting as, even on silent mode, they cause interference with the recording equipment in committee rooms. This instruction should be respected.

It is a great pleasure to welcome the delegates from Trócaire, Mr. Séamus Collins, programme manager for Africa and his colleague Mr. Donough Ryan, regional liaison officer for the Horn and east Africa. I welcome Mr. Paul O'Brien, overseas director from Concern to discuss the current situation in Somalia. Recent reports from Somalia paint a picture of a country on the verge of complete disintegration. A protracted civil war between different factions has created unending violence and lawlessness throughout the country. Mogadishu, the capital is the scene of vicious fighting between the militia of different factions. Most of the civilian population has fled the city for their safety. The country is facing a humanitarian crisis of enormous proportions with millions of people displaced from their homes in fear of violence perpetrated by the militia.

Because of the lawlessness and violence, international news organisations are fearful of trying to cover what is happening in Somalia. As a result, the outside world is hardly aware that Somalia is the scene of one of the most savage and bitter wars ever to have taken place in Africa. The unending violence has also made it extremely dangerous for humanitarian agencies to work in Somalia. Because of the threats to their security, relief workers cannot operate with any degree of safety in the country, especially in Mogadishu.

A few months ago I met members of an NGO who had been in Somalia. They gave me horrific accounts of what was happening there and told me of the plight of the millions of people who had been displaced by the terror that was tearing the country to pieces. It is time we became more aware of what is happening in Somalia in order that we can assess what Ireland can do, at the political level, to help resolve the political crisis in the country and, at the humanitarian level, to help relieve the suffering of its people.

Today we will hear from two of Ireland's most respected aid agencies, Concern and Trócaire, on the situation in Somalia. I invite members of the delegations to make their presentations.

Mr. Séamus Collins

I thank the joint committee, once again, for giving us the opportunity to address it on an issue of grave concern to the development community. I will start by outlining the background and then address the issues of humanitarian access and ask for some possible involvement by Ireland in seeking a solution to the problem in Somalia.

Somalia has been without an effective central government since President Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991. During the past 17 years the country has experienced chronic lawlessness, extreme violence, clan warfare and an almost total breakdown of its social, economic and political structures. The internal civil strife has been exacerbated by the country's increasing geopolitical importance in the global war on terror and regional political dynamics. The humanitarian situation is catastrophic, while the level of insecurity and the unpredictable nature of the conflict make it one of the most dangerous places for aid agencies to operate in the world.

Since 1991 there have been 13 failed attempts at brokering a peace settlement and re-establishing functioning governance structures. The 14th attempt resulted in the formation of the Transitional Federal Government, TFG, in 2004. In the intervening period the TFG has failed to exert any degree of effective control over much of the country. In mid-2006 the Union of Islamic Courts, UIC, took control of Mogadishu and other parts of south central Somalia, only to be ousted in December of that year by Ethiopian forces.

The appalling human rights abuses and complete disregard for civilian life shown in counter-terrorist operations have galvanised support for and radicalised extremist elements, the very groups such military action seeks to suppress. Since then Somalia has been thrown even deeper into this complex and multifaceted insurgency. During the past year the level of violence has further increased. All parties to the conflict have disregarded the protected status of civilians in conflict. Indiscriminate shelling of entire Mogadishu neighbourhoods, where insurgents are hidden among civilian communities, arbitrary killing of innocent civilians and other human rights violations are commonplace. It is estimated that at least 6,000 Somali civilians have died in the fighting in the past 12 months.

Following the December 2006 intervention by Ethiopian troops, the African Union mandated the deployment of peacekeeping troops as part of an African Union mission to Somalia, AMISOM. However, the mission has been plagued by difficulties and only two battalions of Ugandan and 192 Burundian troops have arrived in Somalia, totalling 2,613 of the expected 8,000 troops. Access is limited. In the absence of any peace to keep their activities have only stretched to confidence building patrols and the provision of escorts for visitors and VIPs. Additionally, troops from both countries have suffered attacks from militia groups in Mogadishu. All this has meant that the mission has had little impact on improving security for ordinary Somalis, while the cycle of violence continues to spiral out of control. In March 2008 44 NGOs, including Trócaire, issued a public statement warning of a humanitarian catastrophe in Somalia and calling on the international community and all parties to the conflict urgently to focus their attention on the situation. This was the second time in six months that NGOs issued a joint statement on the severity of the crisis. Since the first statement in October 2007, a further 360,000 people have been forced to flee their homes, an additional half a million people have been declared in need of urgent humanitarian assistance and the central regions in Somalia have deteriorated enough to warrant the declaration of a humanitarian emergency.

Continuing violence displaces approximately 20,000 people from the Somali capital every month. Military clashes between TFG-Ethiopian forces and anti-government elements are no longer confined to Mogadishu but have spread throughout the country. The displacement in Somalia is putting huge strains on host communities, with more than 80% of newly displaced people concentrated in regions that already faced severe problems in terms of food access, collapsing livelihood, and deteriorating nutritional status.

As an added dimension, the drought currently engulfing the Horn of Africa is further exacerbating the crisis. In certain areas rainfall has been all but non-existent for the past three years, and the 2008 long rains, due in April, have failed to materialise. It is well known that drought further weakens a community's ability to withstand external shocks. Such links are well known, but bear repetition given the scale of the crisis in Somalia. In the Gedo region, for example, where Trócaire is working, hundreds of people fled their homes at the start of this month after inter-clan fighting broke out over grazing and access to water.

In addition to insecurity and drought, Somalia has also been greatly affected by soaring global food prices. Somalia imports 60% of its food and with the average cost of cereals retailing in the country increasing by 375% in the past year, many people are now unable to feed their families. To cope with soaring prices people have adopted different strategies, such as reducing overall consumption and purchasing lower quality food. However, such measures prove futile in many cases.

Human rights and international humanitarian law violations by all parties to the current conflict are rampant, as highlighted in a recent report by Amnesty International. The document details abuses, including torture and other ill-treatment, rape, extra-judicial executions, arbitrary detention, and attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure.

The current security situation in Somalia makes it difficult for humanitarian actors to provide timely and effective aid to those most in need. Aid workers and aid assets are increasingly being directly targeted for attack or obstruction - further diminishing access to the millions of Somalis who need help. It is estimated that this could increase to 3.6 million people in the near future.

Since the start of 2008, seven aid workers have been murdered and others kidnapped, causing almost all agencies to remove their international staff from Somalia and downscale operations. In the Gedo region, Trócaire's area of operation, recent attacks and a growing climate of fear and uncertainty have forced the organisation to withdraw all non-Somali staff.

In direct contravention of international humanitarian law, aid delivery and humanitarian access are increasingly impeded by a range of actors. The number of checkpoints and roadblocks now stands at nearly 400, compared with approximately 147 in January 2007. At these checkpoints there have been incidents of extortion and seizure of aid supplies. The Djibouti Declaration of 15 May and the intention expressed by the Transitional Federal Government to create a humanitarian focal point within its structure is to be welcomed. However, if humanitarian access is to improve in reality, such statements of intent must be accompanied by concrete action by the parties concerned within a transparent and agreed time frame.

Trócaire has provided humanitarian and livelihood assistance in the Gedo region in south-west Somalia since 1992. Programme activities include the provision of primary health care and education, and nutritional support for children through a school feeding intervention. We are the lead agency in a consortium with other international NGOs which seeks to improve the access to and quality of essential primary health care services in the region. Trócaire and its consortium partners have worked closely with local health structures to rehabilitate more than 50 health posts, provide technical support and training to health staff and to ensure essential vaccinations for women and children in the area. This is now under threat given the situation in the country. Trócaire complements this work with peace-building, education and livelihood support. This work is critical to ensure that as well as focusing on basic needs through our humanitarian assistance work, longer-term development goals in Somalia are also addressed.

More recently, in response to massive displacement out of Mogadishu, Trócaire, in partnership with local and international organisations, is providing emergency public health and livelihood support in the heavily affected Lower Shabelle region to both displaced people and host communities. Trócaire, once again, in the light of this catastrophe, urges Ireland and the international community to show a greater sense of urgency with regard to the humanitarian crisis in Somalia and engage constructively with all parties to the conflict to bring an end to the suffering of Somali civilians.

Trócaire has noted the conclusions regarding Somalia from the EU General Affairs and External Relations Council, GAERC, at its meeting of 26 and 27 May. While we welcome the Council's expression of concern regarding the security, humanitarian and human rights circumstances in the country, and its support for the creation of a humanitarian focal point, we call on Ireland to use its influence at EU level to ensure that the Union prioritises the search for a solution to the catastrophe in Somalia.

On humanitarian access, we call on Ireland to demand that all parties in the conflict respect international humanitarian law, guarantee unhindered humanitarian access and immediately lift all obstructions to aid assistance. To this end, it is vital that an effective humanitarian focal point within the transitional federal government be established as soon as possible.

In the area of human rights, Ireland should use all channels available - diplomatic, political and public - to ensure that all actors in the conflict meet their obligations under international human rights law.

In the political process, Ireland should express its full support for efforts by the UN special representative for Somalia to facilitate genuine reconciliation between all parties to the conflict. Given its considerable experience in successful conflict resolution, Ireland should apply sustained, high-level diplomatic pressure to facilitate engagement between all parties.

Given the volatile nature of the current circumstances and the high level of violence, international engagement with the political process must now focus on building consensus between all parties to the conflict and bringing an end to the violence. It is with concern that we note the call from both the UN Security Council, in Resolution 1814 on 15 May, and the EU GAERC conclusion, already referenced, in support of a constitutional referendum and democratic elections in 2009, as scheduled in the 2004 transitional federal charter. While holding such polls is vital to the long-term stability of the country, it is unhelpful to focus on unrealistic and inappropriate deadlines in the current political, security and humanitarian climate.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

I very much welcome the presentations of Seamus Collins and Paul O'Brien.

I visited Somalia in 1992, at the invitation of Trócaire, with Sally O'Neill Sanchez and others. They were making a documentary at the time of the famine. We entered the refugee camp in Mandera and noted that conditions were horrific. About two weeks later, the then President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, arrived in Mogadishu. I remember returning with the Trócaire team from Baidoa, where 32 people were dying per day. I was staying in the Concern house in Mogadishu when it was attacked and am therefore aware of the work of the two organisations. I pay tribute to them.

At the time to which I refer, there were circumstances that made matters very difficult. In 1992, Siad Barre, who had been the Somalian President in 1991, effectively left a gap. He had played both sides of the geopolitical power game, which involved both the United States and the Soviet Union. It left a vacuum into which entered the two warlords who provoked the conflict in Mogadishu.

My first positive point is that the only mechanism that could have delivered a state from civil society structures at the time was the clan system. It involved an indigenous form of consultation and government and largely included people who herded their animals. The system was able to resolve disputes. However, because the early stages of the conflict were primarily in Mogadishu, and effectively involving two warlords, no use was made of the clan system.

The person who might have been of most use in the Somalian conflict, Dr. Sahnoun, was regarded as the fall guy in regard to an aborted and totally crazy landing by the United States in the middle of the afternoon with a view to protecting food supplies and its own troops. It was hard to move in the refugee camp at times because of the number of television cameras. It is my belief that after the world looked at the television coverage of children dying, it walked away from Somalia. It was completely neglected. Even at the tail end of the famine, there were difficulties other than those mentioned; for example, there were several flights a day from Kenya exporting Khat, a narcotic that people chewed. By 6 p.m. one could not talk to anybody because they were getting off the stuff in order to be able to sleep at night. Youngsters between the ages of 12 and 16 years supported one faction or the other in Mogadishu and it was in such circumstances that I remember an assault being made on Concern's headquarters.

We are hearing a presentation and there is a lesson to be learned from the indigenous components. No study was made of the possibilities associated with the clan system; no effective use was made of the regional neighbours in order to broker a solution. The military intervention was so crazy that it immediately needed a scapegoat. The most informed United Nations official on the issue, Dr. Sahnoun, was dismissed, after which the international community, including the agencies involved - this is not a criticism of Trócaire or Concern - walked away from the famine and the collapse of the civil society. Therefore, they were a people without a state. International sanctions followed. People from Somalia living abroad sent their earnings in the western world to relatives in different places in what was a complicated way of transferring money. The sanctions imposed on the Somalian banking and credit system were such that they did not touch the warlords who had their own mechanism for banking outside the state but crucially they affected the families trying to receive remittances from abroad. It is valuable that I mention what I am familiar with.

The transitional government recently located in Bidoa because it is not able to exercise control in the capital, Mogadishu, which remains a zone of conflict between warlords. Positive proposals have been put to us to address the current position. The strengthening of the African force would be an enormous help and is related to ensuring access for humanitarian relief agencies.

Another issue, to which I simply do not know how to respond, is the achievement of accountable governance. Excuse me for appearing academic, but the fact that it has sought to locate itself in anything that is of Somalian society in terms of its own structures is a serious disadvantage. Without the current food crises, life expectancy in Somalia is somewhere between 45 and 47 years which shrinks as one moves into particular regions. It is important that we look at the 2005 UN statement on humanitarian intervention to ensure access for humanitarian agencies to provide food and so forth. It is also important that we think of some positive proposals for the restructuring of civil society. There were moments when a temporary truce was arranged between the two warlords in Mogadishu and also a certain time when the transitional Government received some support. I pay tribute to what Trócaire is doing in Gedo and also to Concern's work in responding to the food crisis.

Mr. Paul O’Brien

When one mentions Somalia to people on the street or to friends, their eyes go either down or up to heaven. It is almost like saying something unmentionable. People do not have a sense of what the place is about. Rather than read a prepared script, I thought I would talk a little about some of the things that are going on there and give people a flavour of the country.

Séamus Collins has outlined the situation quite well and Deputy Higgins has given us much of the history. It is a history of missed opportunities. Somalia is a relatively small country with a population of about 8.7 million. One in seven children under the age of five is acutely malnourished and one in six dies before the age of five. Those sort of statistics jump off a page when I read them. The exchange rate of the Somali shilling to the US dollar fell by 50% in the past year. We can imagine the effect of a euro devaluation of 50%. Deputy Higgins is right in what he says about remittances and how people outside Somalia were able to send money back. People can no longer get remittances because they are no longer living in Mogadishu.

Recently there have been riots in protest at food prices. Cereal prices, year on year, have risen by more than 200%. I come from a farming background and Irish farmers are delighted that cereal prices have risen by 97% or 100%. However, things are very different for people who are purchasers of food. As Séamus Collins has explained, a huge amount of food is imported in Somalia. In Somalia, there is a very complex emergency. This is the most difficult place Concern works in, and we work in some quite challenging places, such as North Korea, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Afghanistan.

It is important to name some of the actors in this situation. There have been 14 separate attempts to address this issue since 1991. The Transitional Federal Government has been mentioned. This has been arranged since 2004. It is not really a legitimate government and is struggling to gain control. Baidoa, which is a few miles down the road from Mogadishu, is the only bit of the country it effectively controls. The Ethiopians prop up this Transitional Federal Government. They went into Somalia to address the Union of Islamic Courts. There are several different powers at play. The Eritreans are also involved. Mr. Séamus Collins referred to the regional dimension. A proxy war is being played out in Somalia between Ethiopia and Eritrea.

Despite its name and the way people may think of it, the Union of Islamic Courts was bringing a level of peace to the country until the Ethiopians went in. It has now broken up and one of its more radical elements is now called Al-Shabab. Opposition groups are based in Asmara, the capital of Eritrea. There are also various militia. The United Nations and the United States are also involved. Deputy Higgins has mentioned the clans. These are hugely important in Somali society. Years ago when I first went to Africa, the Somalis were called the Irish of Africa. When we in Ireland look at places where we can contribute to peace, we talk about East Timor because we believe we can make a contribution to peace there. However, the country in greatest need is Somalia, although achieving anything there will be very difficult. On nutrition specifically, in terms of triggers that ring alarm bells for us, when global acute malnutrition goes above 15%, it means we have an emergency that is out of control. That is what we have in Somalia.

I would like to distribute the colour version of the map of Somalia. I am not sure whether it was included with my paper. It shows clearly what is happening there. The area in the centre, which is coloured red, is the bread basket of the country. That is the area that is suffering most. Mr. Collins mentioned drought. Somalia is facing a crisis in the next number of weeks. The difficulty for us is gaining access. We are now targets. In the global war on terror the United States goes in with bombs to try to get some of the members of Al-Shabab. For us on the ground, that means we are considered to be spies. We must leave those areas, as our staff are in great danger. We are seeing a further radicalisation of some of these groups.

Since the beginning of the year 13 people have been killed and 17 kidnapped. As of today six are still held - two Italians, one Briton, one Kenyan and two Somalis. The space for humanitarian work is diminishing. We have heard about the human rights violations which are well documented. Unfortunately, there are no pictures. About a week ago the Channel 4 television programme, "Dispatches", showed a very interesting film of what was going on in Somalia. However, there is very little television evidence, and that is what we want to see. We will have to wait until we see pictures of famine, babies with flies in their eyes and distended stomachs to get any reaction. We still think there may be an opportunity, if the right levers are pushed, to try to do something about it. As an organisation, we have 78 staff working there, 74 of whom are national. When one sees them trying to take their own families out of places such as Mogadishu and sending them to Kenya, one knows one is at the bottom of the barrel.

Our staff have been absolutely incredible in what they have been able to achieve in Somalia. As an organisation, we have been working there continuously since 1992. We assisted almost half a million people in the past year in terms of an emergency response, education and health. We are doing many of the same things. We can do certain things, but the emergency response is coming much more to the fore. We spent approximately €2.5 million in 2007. In the past few years we have received generous allocations from the Government, more than half the money we have been spending. Mr. Collins has outlined what the Government can do, what we can do through the United Nations and the European Union. I encourage members of the committee to push as many of those levers as possible, as there is a need for the carrot and stick approach. The carrot has been there for some time and the stick has to be used.

The issue of impunity must be addressed. People are being killed indiscriminately on the streets and nothing is being done about it. When lawlessness breaks out to such an extent, one must ask what can be done. We cannot let this fall any further because it is the lowest point with which we are dealing.

Deputy Seán Ardagh

I thank Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Collins for their presentations. The situation in Somalia certainly comes over as being very difficult. It does not appear that money is the problem as much as fixing the system such that resources can be made available. Without lessening the importance of the issue, it is comparable to our health system. It is said it does not work if one pours money into it because the system must be put right first. I presume Mr. O'Brien agrees with Mr. Collins that some action on the part of the transitional federal government on an international level is needed to secure political stability in the country. How can action best be taken against the various militia groups to persuade them to adopt humanitarian attitudes and approaches? Their activities are inhuman and we do not understand them in Ireland. I am sure that if one were living in Somalia, one would have some understanding of why people act in the way they do. In what way can Ireland have an effect on the world stage to try to change the mindset of the militia groups?

Deputy Alan Shatter

I join other members in praising the work of Trócaire and Concern in what can best be described as a completely chaotic part of the world. I found the delegates' presentations interesting. I had an opportunity before the meeting to read the recently published report of Amnesty International which deals at great length with abuses of human rights and contains a series of recommendations, some of which are mirrored in the statements of the delegates.

There are practical issues to be raised as much as anything else. Despite all the efforts of NGOs and the international community to resolve issues in Somalia during the years, circumstances have simply gone from bad to worse. How do the delegates believe we will reach a point that will allow for a political solution? There seems to be a series of groups, with diametrically opposed views and aspirations, engaged in routine mayhem, bloodletting and violence. NGOs are struggling to provide humanitarian aid or a safe haven for those caught in the middle. Even where there are camps, there are dangers, problems and difficulties. We are aware of the detail.

The Amnesty International recommendations and some of those of the delegates are desirable. However, from an Irish perspective, one despairs over how one reaches the point where they can be implemented. The transitional federal government is dysfunctional and not in charge of the country. It is as guilty of perpetrating violence and violating human rights as all other groups. The Ethiopians are present and have a particular agenda. This must be considered in conjunction with everything else that is occurring on the ground.

Perhaps my vision is despairing but, bearing in mind that there is nothing with which I or any reasonable person could disagree in the statements of the delegates and the recommendations made in Amnesty International's report, I must ask, from a practical perspective, how one can make progress, given that those who are exercising power in different parts of Somalia are not sufficiently aware that they will not solve the problems of the country through violence and that there is a need for a viable, working political process. I do not see that happening in the short-term. I very much appreciate the delegates' comment on that.

In the context of the African force that has been provided, unfortunately there has been a history of such forces in Africa that are under-manned, under-resourced, lacking the numbers originally envisaged and largely symbolic as opposed to being able to achieve any particular result. From an Irish perspective what can we do to bring the force up to 8,000? I suspect nothing, other than urging the United Nations and trying to ensure the European Union maintains some sort of united approach. Much of it is urging people, who are unwilling, to see reason. In the meantime tens of thousands of people lose their lives and many more suffer serious injury and are incapable of leading a meaningful existence. They are dependent on aid and the type of assistance that both organisations can provide. All of this may seem despairing counsel.

One of the best Government initiatives in recent years and it is only at the infant stages, was establishing a unit in the Department of Foreign Affairs to deal with conflict resolution. This unit is at the teething stages. I presume that if the personnel from that unit are to involve themselves in some corner of the world in assisting to bring about a peace process - there are many other parts of the world in similar difficulties - it could have an impact. With limited resources, limited personnel and limited influence, one looks to a part of the world where perhaps one would have an impact. I would be interested in the views of the delegates on the impact the conflict resolution unit in the Department of Foreign Affairs could have? In the context of dealing with the TFG, how does one see the international community forcing a change of behaviour in a different approach?

Somalia is a country in a state of despair with no sense that I can gauge that there are political leaders who have the insight to involve themselves meaningfully in a type of peace process that will benefit the totality of the population as opposed to individuals or clans trying to seek what they perceive to be gains for themselves

Senator Ann Ormonde

I thank the delegates for the presentation. I acknowledge that in the past 12 months the humanitarian catastrophe is beyond all thought. How do we overcome the crisis in Somalia? While I acknowledge the work Trócaire does and all the aid officials, in the presentation it states:

Trócaire, once again, in the light of this catastrophe, urges Ireland and the international community to show a greater sense of urgency with regard to the humanitarian crisis in Somalia.

Will the delegates enlarge on how we can work together to that end? Ireland is always at the forefront in support and ways to help out, but what else does the delegation think we should do and how best we can do it through the committee?

Deputy Alan Shatter

It is my understanding that there have been several Somali nationals who have come to Ireland seeking refugee status by way of political asylum. Our refugee system all the way up to the refugee appeals tribunal has refused to accept they require asylum and that it should be granted. That is a national scandal and outrage based on everything that we know is happening in Somalia.

I wonder, in the context of the manner in which the refugee appeals tribunal is dealing with Somali nationals seeking political asylum, whether Trócaire or Concern are ever asked to attend asylum hearings and brief those making decisions on what is happening there. If someone has come here from Somalia it is difficult to argue that they are not entitled to refugee status because of the perils of returning to their own country. A series of people are caught in this situation, which is almost Kafkaesque. We are dealing today with the background to an issue which has been visited in the past by the committee. Meanwhile, an official body is adjudicating on whether people can safely go back to Somalia and concluding that they can. Has either organisation had an opportunity to give evidence on what is happening on the ground?

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

I entirely agree with what Deputy Shatter has said. However, may I be positive? The clan system was very important in 1992. It was the most viable option for controlling the warlords in the period 1992-93. It would be practical to use the clan system, if necessary meeting outside Somalia, to put practical proposals for civil society in place. I make this suggestion in the knowledge that many people who are associated with clans in different parts of Somalia have left Mogadishu and gone back to their own parts of the country. In the weeks before the disastrous mid-afternoon invasion, real progress had been made, in terms of the indigenous clan system, in controlling the two warlords.

However, the international community identifies with the Transitional Federal Government, which is seen as supported from outside and not as an indigenous solution. The clan system is unpopular and unacceptable, in a bureaucratic sense. It is something with which people do not want to engage precisely because it is African, indigenous and Somalian. It is well worth trying again. It is where the conflict resolution mechanism might be able to engage with something that would deliver something on the ground.

Chairman

Mr. Collins and Mr. O'Brien, you will now have an opportunity to reply. The joint committee will follow up today's discussions. We have listened to what you have had to say and we take it very seriously. Is there anything you would like to add or points you would like to raise before we conclude?

Mr. Séamus Collins

I will reply to some of the points raised. The clan system is part of the problem and must be part of the solution. Prior to any such solution being brokered or imagined, we need a comprehensive and almost anthropological understanding of the clan system. The disaster which befell the US troops in 1992 arose from importing a western solution into what was not a western problem. Trócaire has managed to remain operational in Somalia since 1992 by judicious engagement with the clan system. I am sure the same is true of Concern. We are aware of the dynamics within the clan and sub-clan system. For example, in operating the health care services in the Gedo region, a position is held by a person on behalf of the clan, regardless of level of competence to perform the duties associated with the position. When they leave the position it goes to another member of the clan or sub-clan as the case may be. Any attempt to introduce a meritocracy in such a system is fraught with danger and needs to be extremely carefully managed. I absolutely agree that engagement with the clan system is essential to any solution of the situation, but it will require very careful research and analysis in order to understand and apply it.

In response to Senator Ormonde's question regarding what Ireland can do, Trócaire greatly appreciates the engagement of the Irish Government on the issue of Somalia and acknowledges that the Government has been exercised by the situation. I mentioned in my presentation that the Government can seek to engage at a number of different levels, both publicly and privately. Ireland can use its good offices as an honest broker on the international stage to seek to bring about some level of rapport between the different factions. There is also a role for the conflict resolution unit which is engaging very positively at the moment in East Timor. While acknowledging that this is an initial experience for the unit, I would recommend that we should look at the use of the capacity of the unit in the future in situations such as that in Somalia.

It is important to bear in mind when analysing the situation in Somalia at the moment that there are quite a number of people who benefit from the anarchy that reigns there. As I said earlier, it is true, in the case of the clans, the sub-clans, the diaspora, the Transitional Federal Government, the Alliance for Somalia that is based in Asmara, that those who are part of the problem must be part of the solution. There can be no imported solution to this situation. It must be generated within Somalia by Somalis with the support of the international community.

In regard to Deputy Shatter's question on asylum seekers, to my knowledge Trócaire has not been invited to present to the asylum appeals tribunal on Somalia or on any other issue. I can double check that, but to my knowledge it is not the case.

Deputy Alan Shatter

It would be a useful source of information for the tribunal. I have appeared before this tribunal and it seems that on occasion the people chairing it go off on a tangent and, allegedly, do research on their own that has absolutely nothing to do with the case presented to them, and then reach a decision that is diametrically opposed to the evidence presented. Much of the material Trócaire has would be very valuable to their work. If Trócaire has never been invited in there, perhaps it should send the material to it as an act of charity in the hope that someone might read it. There are a number of people chairing the tribunal and I would seriously question the level of understanding of some of them with regard to the areas in the world they are addressing and in respect of which they are making decisions.

Chairman

This committee should also write with its submissions.

Mr. Seamus Collins

To my knowledge we have not been invited, nor have we made submissions. I will check that and revert to the committee.

Mr. Paul O’Brien

To my knowledge Concern has not been invited either. One of the points in my paper related to the possibility of countries within the region opening their borders and accepting Somalis as refugees. That is a big issue. What is happening, and it is quite amazing to see, is that very small boats are heading across to Yemen. It is an extremely dangerous place to go and one hears many stories of people being left to drift at sea.

Leaving that aside, the key question is what Ireland can do. In terms of the specific question of the conflict resolution unit, Ireland has a tremendous opportunity to be an honest broker and is seen as such when dealing with this situation. It does not have the colonial baggage that some other nations in Europe have. In many situations Italians or Britons have been put in as key people from the European Union. Perhaps an Irish person would be much more acceptable to the Somalis, particularly the clans.

I admire Deputy Higgins's wish to be positive. When talking about Somalia, it is very difficult to be so. One must consider the regional dimension of the problem. Ireland has a strong aid programme with Ethiopia which is part of the problem and part of the solution. Ireland can have influence in reminding it about the basic issue of how to behave in a time of war. The rules of war are governed by the Geneva conventions. Pushing the conventions and using our leverage with some of the people with whom we have relations must be a key dimension.

There must be an all-inclusive process. The problem with the process which finished in Djibouti in the last day or so is that certain groups did not attend, while certain others were not invited. A group such as Al-Shabab, considered a terrorist organisation by the United States, is not invited to any of these meetings. Our own history teaches us that it is only when one tries to talk to all groups that people begin to engage. I do not believe there will be a political solution until one finds a way of ensuring all of the groups come to the table, including in particular representatives of the Hawiye clan who have been left out of the process to date.

Someone commented that money was not the problem. Money will still help on the humanitarian side. NGOs are trying to deal with a number of brewing emergencies. While we are conscious of budget constraints and we hear of how the HSE can pour money into the system to deal with problems, we believe money will be a key issue later this year. I ask the committee to ensure a humanitarian fund will be available. We have a very good relationship with the officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs and are getting the message that money is not available. Aid is needed in Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, Myanmar and other places. Therefore, money is still an issue.

Let me refer to the issue of impunity and let us consider what happened in Bosnia, for example. Until we see a process under which people will be punished for the crimes they have committed, atrocities will continue. I heard it said that when the "Dispatches" programme showed the faces of those responsible for atrocities, the attitude of people on the ground changed a little. We may need to encourage more such programmes. I am not sure if Charlie Bird, instead of going to the Amazon, would like the challenge of making a programme in Somalia.

Chairman

We will leave Mr. O'Brien to convey that request to him.

Deputy Alan Shatter

I propose that we send Charlie Bird to Somalia.

Chairman

I thank Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Collins for their valuable presentation. On an earlier occasion we got an insight into this issue from people working for NGOs. It is dangerous to mention names. We understand this, as they are working in a state of bedlam and great danger. We congratulate Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Collins on the work they are doing and will raise the issue with Irish Aid. I did not need to be reminded that they needed financial aid. I had noted this while they were speaking. We are dealing with a very complex political situation. Those elements were brought out during the discussion. We will try to do what we can. We would like to be in touch with you after the meeting and will get in touch with the various people involved. We know how this started. We know about the initial al-Qaeda aspect, the involvement of the United States of America as well as of Ethiopia, and the various developments since that time. From what we heard today, the situation in Somalia is one of the most serious political, security and humanitarian problems in Africa today. The delegations brought that out very clearly. The international community must take a more proactive role in trying to broker a cease-fire between the factions.

I am aware there have been many unsuccessful efforts in the past to bring some measure of peace to Somalia but there is no reason the effort should not be renewed. Humanitarian problems must command our immediate attention. I applaud Concern and Trócaire for their efforts to address the desperate needs of the people who are the innocent victims of this catastrophic war. I reiterate that we strongly applaud the members of these organisations for the work they do in this catastrophic situation.

The committee will take up the political and humanitarian situation in Somalia with the Minister for Foreign Affairs but will also go further. Various points have been mentioned. The committee will discuss them further and take whatever action it can. We again congratulate the organisations on their work and thank them for attending. The committee will keep in touch with them.

Sitting suspended at 2.37 p.m. and resumed at 2.40 p.m.