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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN díospóireacht -
Thursday, 17 Nov 2005

MRSA Incidence: Presentation.

This discussion will focus on matters relating to MRSA. I welcome Dr. Jim Kiely, the chief medical officer of the Department of Health and Children, Mr. Brian Mullen, principal officer, Ms Dympna Butler, principal officer, Dr. Kevin Kelleher, assistant national director, population health directorate, Dr. Mary Hynes, assistant national director, National Hospitals Office, and Dr. Robert Cunny from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre. Brief presentations will be made by Dr. Kiely and Dr. Kelleher.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or any official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I received apologies from Deputy McGuinness who is unable to attend. I invite Dr. Kiely to make his presentation.

On behalf of myself, my Department colleagues and my colleagues in the Health Service Executive, I thank the committee for this opportunity to speak to its members on this particularly important topic. I would like to make a short opening statement and Dr. Kelleher will then make some observations. We have submitted formal statements, which are quite lengthy and, therefore, we will not go through them in detail. We will offer clarifications or answer any questions members may have. I believe the range of managerial and technical expertise we have will be sufficient to deal with issues that may arise. However, if there is a matter about which we are not in a position to answer or clarify, we will ensure we provide such clarification or answers as soon as possible. If that meets with the committee's approval, I will proceed.

To put in context the issue of hospital acquired infection, particularly MRSA, which is the central one that has gained currency recently, we must recollect that there have been a number of advances in medicine in recent decades. These advances have improved greatly the range and safety of the procedures that can be offered within the modern health care system. With less invasive surgery and advances in anaesthetics, there is an increasing ability of the hospital system to treat many more patients, particularly on a day care or outpatient basis.

However, advances in medical technologies and treatment which have led to the survival of sick and vulnerable patients have also, unfortunately, contributed to the emergence of resistant strains of bacteria. In our complex health care environment a certain level of infection will occur, despite the best efforts of those providing care. However, we equally recognise that there are many infections which occur in this environment which are preventable by reference to and use of well recognised and evidence-based practices and procedures within hospitals and other health care institutions.

On the issue of antimicrobial resistance, while antimicrobials have saved the lives of many patients and eased the suffering of many millions of people during recent decades, they have also contributed significantly to major gains in life expectancy. These gains are now jeopardised by another related development, the emergence and the spread of microbes that are resistant to cheap and effective first choice or first line drugs. Infections caused by resistant microbes fail to respond to treatment resulting in prolonged illness and greater risk of death. Treatment figures also led to longer periods of infectivity which increase the numbers of infected people moving in the community and thus expose the general population to the risk of contracting a resistant strain of infection.

Specifically regarding MRSA, the bug, staphylococcus aureus, is a bacteria which resides in the skin and other parts of the body of many people within the community who are perfectly well while they carry this organism. If the resistant strain, however, gains access to deep tissues such as broken skin on a surgical site, wound infections or the bloodstream, infections can occur. The early penicillin antibiotics, with which we are all familiar, were effective in the treatment of such infections, but from the late 1960s onwards many strains have become and remained resistant.

MRSA has been prevalent in Irish hospitals since the 1970s and, as members are aware, it continues to be prevalent. Ten years ago, in 1995, the Department of Health and Children prepared a set of guidelines on MRSA, which was widely circulated and included an information leaflet for patients, as well as guidelines for use in hospitals, district community hospitals and nursing and residential homes.

In 1999, a comprehensive survey of MRSA was done on a North-South basis between ourselves and our colleagues in the Northern Ireland health services. This identified the prevalence of MRSA within our hospital system. It also identified a number of areas for development and improvement in the provision of facilities for the control of MRSA in hospitals. Subsequent to that study, it was decided to update and revise the guidelines previously produced by the Department. In 1999, the Department asked the national diseases surveillance centre, which is now the health protection and surveillance centre from which Dr. Cunny comes, to evaluate the problem of resistance, including MRSA, in Ireland and to formulate a strategy for the future. The result of this has been the strategy for antimicrobe resistance in Ireland which was launched in 2001. This report, in addition to many other initiatives, updated the 1995 guidelines.

I have set out the areas in which SARI recommendations are based. I will not go through them individually but there are five particular categories. Over the last number of years, a stream of funding from the Department has gone into the health system to support activities under this strategy.

I also deal with the reporting of MRSA cases. One of the central tenets of good public health action in respect of the prevention and control of infectious and communicable diseases is that the problem needs to be accurately and comprehensively identified and described. That in turn requires active and effective surveillance.

I also deal with how MRSA is reported within the health care system and how the surveillance system describes and identifies the nature and extent of the problem. In 2001, there were 337 reported MRSA bloodstream infections and that has increased to over 500 in 2004. There were 314 in the first six months of 2005. We note, however, that the increase in the total number of reported MRSA cases may be due to the increased surveillance as a result of many more laboratories participating in the reporting process. It may be marginal but I think it is important to mention that.

The percentage of resistant staphylococcus aureus observed in Ireland is high and is on a par with some other European countries. Rates are lower in the Netherlands and Scandinavia, but these countries are now reporting significant increasing trends, although at a low level.

Effective infection control measures have been identified over the years. These include environmental cleanliness and hand hygiene. Improving standards of cleanliness in hospitals is now a priority. I am sure that later in the presentations, the hygiene audit issue will be discussed.

The Health Service Executive recently published updated guidelines on hand hygiene and guidelines on the control of MRSA for hospital and community settings. These two significant documents give clear policy and practice guidance to healthcare workers on the control of hospital acquired infections.

As I mentioned, the national hygiene audit has been published and we will deal with that. The HSE will soon publish infection control standards and cleaning standards. Where previously standards may have depended on the approach of a particular hospital in a particular area, the HSE's national remit will ensure every hospital and institution will share and meet the same high standards of cleanliness and infection control. That is the case in terms of environmental cleanliness as well as the structures, personnel and processes that are required to inform and maintain infection control standards in hospitals. The situation is complex and multifaceted.

Last year, to demonstrate the worldwide nature of antibiotic resistance, the World Health Organisation established an international patient safety alliance under the chairmanship of Sir Liam Donaldson from the UK. In the 2005-06 period, the global patient safety challenge for the WHO's member states, including Ireland, is entitled "clean care is safer care". The focus of this initiative is on preventing infections associated with health care and the core message is that simple measures can save lives.

We recognise that the public, patients and their families demand and need to have confidence in the safety and effectiveness of the healthcare system. At the very least, they should not be injured by preventable infections while under the care of our hospitals or any other institutions. The nature and extent of, and many of the solutions to, these problems have now been described. There is an onus on all of us within the healthcare system to push forward with implementing these solutions. The presentation from our HSE colleagues will deal in some detail with their plans and objectives in moving forward to establish the structures, processes and resources to deal with this situation.

With the permission of the Chairman, I will ask Dr. Kelleher to introduce his presentation.

Dr. Kevin Kelleher

I thank the Chairman and other members for inviting us to talk about this subject. While we are more than happy to talk about MRSA, in our view we are dealing with a wider problem, namely the whole area of healthcare associated infection and its sister problem of antimicrobial resistance. That is the problem we are now setting out to address within the HSE. The joint committee has our detailed report about what happened and what we are planning to do for the future. In my presentation, I prefer to concentrate on what we will do in the future.

As a consequence of the Department of Health and Children's SARI report in 2001, both national and regional committees were set up within the health services to look at what could be done about this problem. The national committee has been chaired by Professor Hilary Humphreys, one of the leading international experts in this area. We are lucky to have him here in Ireland.

This year, the creation of the health service executive under a single chief executive officer in Professor Brendan Drumm has given us a major opportunity to re-energise our activities on this issue. I have been at meetings with Professor Drumm and I can say that he sees this as one of the main priorities for the HSE. In my new job as assistant national director within the population health directorate, I am responsible for health detection, which takes this area on board. AtBeaumont's audit reliable? I am sure he has read the report.

Dr. Kelleher

I did not read the report, only the newspaper comments on it.

Can any of the delegates tell us if they consider the Beaumont audit reliable?

Dr. Cunny

Again, not having seen the report it is difficult to comment. Knowing that Beaumont has a laboratory and an infection control team, albeit somewhat under-resourced for a hospital of its size, it was able to put resources into the audit. Most hospitals do not have those resources. Obtaining meaningful data requires resources. In 2004 we at Temple Street Children's Hospital carried out 5,500 screening swabs for MRSA. That represented a huge time commitment on the part of frontline clinical staff and laboratory scientists, as did following up on the results, putting infection control precautions in place and carrying out the necessary surveillance, which added to the burden on our infection control nurses and microbiology colleagues. We were able to do that because we have the resources to find out how many cases of MRSA we had in 2004, which was none. We know the number of children who come in and are colonised with MRSA, which is extremely small.

We will seek those resources for all hospitals as a priority funding requirement from next year onward. The survey covering the UK and Ireland, which will be carried out early next year, will provide the starting point for that process.

Dr. Kelleher

I do not wish us to commit all our resources to just one aspect of this process. It is a complex area that necessitates many actions. We have already taken some actions and are building on them with further steps. It is a major task to put parallel systems in place around the country but we aim to succeed. We require guidelines that people in the health services can take on board. We must review the prescribing of antibiotics, measure the results and publicise our findings. The important lesson we have learnt from elsewhere in the world is that the issue must be addressed in a holistic way.

There seems to be inconsistency among general practitioners in the prescription of antibiotics. What is the current position? Are there data on it?

Dr. Kelleher

We provided data to the committee in advance of this meeting. Rates are higher than the EU average and must be addressed seriously. It is an issue of behaviour affecting all of us. People take a child to a GP with earache or a sore throat and expect to come away with an antibiotic prescription. It takes 15 minutes for a GP to persuade them not to go on a course of antibiotics but it only takes a minute to write the prescription. We in the profession have a responsibility to get that message across and develop guidelines for our staff on such matters as prescriptions and washing hands.

I will answer a couple of important questions. Professor Drumm has clearly stated we must address the resources in our system and how we deal with the community side of primary care. Having read the transcript from last week we must address how we support people coming out of hospital with MRSA and other infections. We also learnt from last week's transcript that we must get the message to everybody in the health services that they must spend more time passing on information about infections so patients understand them and can take appropriate action. People must tell patients what is happening.

The patients' association told the HSE they wanted to help us and we are grateful for that. It was suggested they should be represented on our groups and we must explore that in our meeting with them in January. Dr. Hynes and I will meet them again on Friday to discuss actively progressing that idea. They are keen to have a voice in the process and we are keen to hear that voice. That meeting will be very important in directing us on the way forward.

We spoke about the need for patients to be informed if they have MRSA. Are patients informed beforehand that they are being swabbed for the infection? I presume they are not.

Dr. Kelleher

They are not necessarily told they are being swabbed for MRSA and that is an issue we need to address. As members have heard a million people pass through the system. It is a large system and people get into routines. They do not necessarily do a perfect job all the time and often carry out swabs without thinking of these things. It might be a good idea to have a reference to it in our patient literature. We have not dealt with these issues as well as in the past and must take on board what we heard last week, as well as the points made by members of the committee today. I do not wish to understate the MRSA problem but there are other infections which are just as problematic to us and could be even more so.

If people are swabbed and an infection shows up they should be told. If somebody gives blood the Blood Transfusion Service Board tests the blood afterwards and informs them if anything shows up. It is common sense. If I was swabbed in hospital and heard nothing back I would assume everything was fine and would be shocked if I learnt by accident a month later I had MRSA. That has happened and demonstrates a lack of information.

There is obviously a need for legislation as the Health Act 1947 is completely out of date. What legislation is forthcoming, if any?

Have any sanctions ever been imposed on health managers, cleaning staff or anybody else arising out of the issues surrounding MRSA? We have acknowledged there were problems in the 1970s but have taken no action. Has the HSE intervened in the context of MRSA? Its officials visited accident and emergency departments and produced a damning report. Small restaurants are inspected every week by environmental health officers and closed if necessary on the grounds of minor breaches of legislation yet hospitals fail miserably in hygiene matters and MRSA rates but nothing happens.

The HSE is trying to develop an ethos of higher hygiene standards and cleanliness in hospitals and we welcome that outcome of the current discussions. It is also targetting resources but conflict arises when the importance of hygiene is played down and when dustballs rolling across the ward and an inch of dust on the window are said not to matter. It does matter.

How much is being done to link what has been learned from the audit with what is already known? The information may be quite poor but, for example, five distinct factors were measured in the audit, including hand washing, waste disposal and the level of cleanliness and hygiene in kitchens. Many of the hospital acquired infections are notifiable diseases, so there should be some mechanism to track down which hospital the infections came from and linking this with the audit. This may show up a potential pattern or exhibit a link between resources in hospitals that have high levels of hospital acquired infections.

A review is currently ongoing in one of the major Dublin hospitals regarding the placement of more beds on wards. This contradicts with what has been stated here, namely, that beds must be placed further apart and there should be more isolation facilities. This information reminds me of the politics I have experienced since I became a spokesperson for Fine Gael. Before I did so people contended that all I did was complain, but now I must complain and come up with a solution. We have the results of the audit, but what are we going to do with them and how will we make them work for us? How can we link with the issues raised by Deputy McManus, the results of the audit and what we know of hospital acquired infections? Relevant statistics are published practically every month or every year.

What is the grand plan for moving forward and having clean hospitals, linking all this information? We should not hear of an audit being carried out if it does not matter. What are the solutions for the future and for what is this information being used? Does the issue boil down to resources and is it ultimately a question of poor management? These are the matters we will be dealing with when writing to groups such as MRSA and Families, where perhaps we could state that certain hospitals do not have enough resources or certain hospitals have poor work practices. We should have concrete statements to make.

We do not expect to have all the answers this morning and I suggest to the witnesses that they come in every quarter to brief the committee on how the work is being done. The answers should not be rushed in time for the end of this meeting, as I do not see the process working that way. All members of the joint committee are very concerned about how changes will be implemented. We will put this question to the witnesses through the joint committee when we invite them back in approximately three months time. In light of this, we are not asking the witnesses to work against the clock.

The Irish Patients Association is a fine organisation but does not represent anybody. Its spokesperson is very articulate and I am sure the group can contribute to the debate. However, there is not a significant contribution to be made from it when viewed beside what has been stated by MRSA and Families last week. Its representatives stated that the group produced a leaflet but nothing happened. Some of the proposals they came up with were completely blocked. This is the reality on the ground.

This issue concerns patients having the right to information about a life-threatening condition that may be acquired in the place they go to in order to be made better. In my view this is a right which should be enshrined in law. Nobody should delay the process for some other parallel process. The MRSA and Families group told us recently that they were not given this information, and neither were their loved ones. Lack of information is probably as much a cause for the spread of infection as the many other factors discussed today. Are the witnesses recommending legislation on this matter?

I get the impression the witnesses do not see a role for an independent authority. Perhaps it is a natural response within a Department not to want to cede control to an outside authority. Do any of the witnesses see the benefit of an independent authority, even if it is the health information and quality authority? This would be an independent body with powers to act.

I will deal with the issue of legislation, and I apologise to Senator Browne for referring to it otherwise recently.

Perhaps it was a vote of confidence.

Please do not draw any inferences from what I have said. The Health Act 1947 has been referred to. Under the various Health Acts in 1970 and 2004, there were various updates to the legislation. With regard to the infectious diseases aspect of the 1947 legislation, the regulations that have spun out from this have been updated on a number of occasions, with the list of notifiable infectious diseases being added to or subtracted from.

The most recent update was in 2004, in the course of which bloodstream infection by MRSA was added to the list of notifications. It is correct that while the primary legislation, which referred to matters such as the £50 fine, has not been updated, the specific list of infectious diseases has been updated regularly right up until last year.

The enforcement and sanctions have not been updated.

I cannot comment on the details of who may have been sanctioned by whom in the course of the past 50 years. I do not have such information.

Is it correct to assume that nobody has been sanctioned?

I do not know. Deputy McManus raised the issue of independent inspection, intimating that we do not appear in favour of it. I will revisit the issue. The reasons for the establishment of the Health Information and Quality Authority are the setting of standards, the implementation of such standards and the monitoring and evaluation of how standards and practices are being implemented across the system, be they relating to cardiology or another field. This particularly relates to infection control. I envisage a very important role for the health information and quality authority in the monitoring and oversight of these activities. I have no difficulty in agreeing with the Deputy's assertion that independent monitoring of the health system is a very desirable but much delayed occurrence. I welcome the input of HIQA in this area.

Dr. Mary Hynes

Infection control and standards of hygiene is the direction in which the HSE is going. The audit was carried out this year by bringing in a commercial company, and this process will be repeated in the spring. From there on, we have asked the Irish Health Services Accreditation Board to undertake the monitoring of standards. This is one of the bodies which will be subsumed into HIQA. We are not waiting for HIQA to formally take over the process. I agree that we have a job to do on the daily operational management of cleanliness in hospitals, where such facilities are inspected regularly. There is, however, great advantage in having an external body involved also. We are involved with the Irish Health Services Accreditation Board on this, and such a process will be evident next year.

Dr. Cunny

I will follow up a question from Deputy Twomey. I do not wish to give the impression I am downplaying the importance of physical hygiene within hospitals. My statement looked to stress that such hygiene is only one component of several, all of which need to be in place to control hospital infection.

Physical hygiene is important in creating the ethos of cleanliness within the hospital. If the hospital is clean, it is usually an indicator that other processes are being done correctly also. This reinforces — for hospital staff, patients and visitors — the idea that precautions should be taken within the hospital setting. Physical cleanliness will probably have an impact on hospital infection in this regard and it is not that cleanliness itself has a major impact, at least in the case of MRSA. That is why it is an important component. It is, however, merely a component.

Dr. Kelleher said he has data on the prescribing of antibiotics. Does that compare prescription rates from GP to GP or what sort of data is available?

Dr. Cunny

There are two types of data available. The first is national level data that we report as part of a Europe-wide surveillance system where we can compare our overall level of antibiotic use, and patterns of antibiotic use across the Continent. That is how we know that our overall level is not the highest in Europe. Ireland is among a group of countries in which levels are a little above average but are not as high as those in some countries, such as Spain or France. There is also individual prescription level data available through the GMS scheme that is fed back to individual GPs generally through GP units within the old health board structure or GP tutor groups. It is the tutor groups model that is being used in the pilot work going on in the southern region, which is being rolled out to other regions as well, of giving GPs feedback on their own prescribing patterns. The work done in the southern region has been very successful in that the GPs can examine their own prescribing patterns and identify where they are overusing particular types of antibiotics or problems with particular types of patients. The focus has been on addressing many of the cultural issues and the way patient demand, or perceived patient demand, for antibiotics should be addressed. That model appears to be successful but the next stage is tying it in with patient and public education. That will be a major focus of the joint meeting we will have with our colleagues at the end of this month in Armagh in terms of drawing on the success they have had in this area in Northern Ireland.

When the Lorenzo system is in place, will Dr. Cunny be able to get that prescription data back quickly? Is part of the process that he will be able to know that very quickly?

Dr. Cunny

The difficulty with the prescription level data is that it is only available for the GMS scheme. There is no data at prescription level for non-GMS antibiotic use but work is being carried out at the national centre for pharmacoeconomics in St. James's Hospital, which is examining overall GMS prescribing n a quarterly basis. At local level, that data is also fed back to individual GPs and that is where it makes the difference. Feeding back the data to individual GPs means they can then use it to modify their own prescribing if necessery.

We will conclude this session. I thank the representatives for coming before us and also the people in the Public Gallery who were here last week. This committee has pledged to monitor progress with a view to seeing what we can get done and, in that regard, we will be inviting the representatives to come in on a quarterly basis. We would like to discuss the issue of the independent assessment in particular.

I want to return to an issue, although I do not want a response on it now. I remain unconvinced about putting people in responsible positions in each hospital. I understand that is the objective but I am not convinced in terms of the way it is being done. I am concerned because when I referred to the Beaumont issue, the response was that there are certain standards to which each hospital must aspire. I suspect that means putting a laboratory and other back-up facilities in each hospital and, therefore, the question of resources will arise. If we are to aspire to having norms in each hospital, we will have to have to have the same standards in terms of laboratory technicians, microbiologists and so on and I am concerned about how that can be done in every acute hospital throughout the regions.

On the independent authority, there is great sense in that suggestion. I wonder if we will ever see a day when the same criteria will be applied to hospitals as are applied, for example, to hotels and guesthouses, which are graded. That might lead in time to a practice whereby we will aspire to top level grades.

I thank the witnesses for coming before us and giving of three hours of their time. When they come before the committee again in February, I hope they will be able to outline for us how far we have come along the road.

On behalf of our group I thank the Chairman and members for the courtesy with which they received us this morning. This is a very important issue and we, more than anybody, are aware of the problems and the way we must address them. The Chairman's summary clearly identified some of the central issues that remain to be addressed and we would be delighted to come back to the committee in the new year to report progress.

We will be inviting our guests to do so on a quarterly basis to keep this issue moving, rather than just shelving it. We want to assure the families that we intend to remain focused on this issue, on which we are glad to hear their response.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.55 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 24 November 2005.

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