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JOINT COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL AND FAMILY AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 Feb 2007

Family Income Supplement: Discussion with Department of Social and Family Affairs.

I welcome from the Department of Social and Family Affairs Mr. Brian ÓRaghallaigh, assistant director general, who has been with us before to deal with other issues; Mr. Denis Galvin, principal officer; and Ms Marie McEvilly, assistant principal officer. Members are reminded of the parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members who wish to make a declaration in regard to any matter being discussed may do so now or at the beginning of their contribution. Members are also reminded that if there is a possibility of a conflict of interest, they should make a declaration of interest now or at the beginning of their contribution. I draw attention to the fact that while members of the joint committee have absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. While it is generally accepted that witnesses would have qualified privilege, the committee is not in a position to guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. I know our guests are well aware of this.

I invite Mr. Ó Raghallaigh to make his opening remarks before I open the floor to questions.

Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh

I thank the joint committee for giving us the opportunity to speak on the issue of family income supplement. As members will know, the social welfare system provides qualifying persons with a personal rate of payment and, on top of this, increased payments for any dependent adults or children they may have. For example, a lone parent would typically receive €207 per week and a couple with one child, €331. To put the matter in context, a 40-hour week at the national minimum wage results in a gross income of €332 per week, similar to what a couple would receive. A consequence of this is that a lone parent or a couple with children may find that it is not financially worth their while to take up an offer of work or to remain in low wage employment. That is where family income supplement comes in.

Family income supplement, FIS, is administered from our office in Longford which is run by my colleague, Mr. Galvin. It provides financial support for persons who have a dependent child or children with the objective of making sure it is financially worth their while to work. It does this by bridging the gap between whatever income they have from employment and a reference amount of income, set out in the Social Welfare Act. The reference amount depends on the number of children one has. For example, for a person with one child, the figure is €480 per week and for a family with three children, €625. The amount does not vary between lone parents and couples. The amount of FIS paid is 60% of the difference between the income from employment and the reference amount. For example, a lone parent or couple with one child who have an income from employment of €380 per week are €100 per week below the reference amount and receive €60 in FIS. Similarly, a lone parent or couple with three children who have an income from employment of €425 per week are €200 below the reference point and would receive 60% of €200, or €120. That is how the system works.

The entitlement is based on satisfying the means test I have just described and on certification by an employer that the person concerned is in employment. FIS is not payable to those who are self-employed. The income limits were increased significantly in the most recent and earlier budgets. This has enabled more people to qualify and provides a higher level of payment at any given level of qualifying income.

The average payment last year was €89 per week, 12% higher than the average payment in 2005 — approximately €80. The reason for the increase was that the reference amounts were increased in the budget and increased more quickly than average employment income. Therefore, the gap to be bridged is greater. We expect that a further increase in the average payment will occur in 2007, for the same reasons. Last year, we spent €107 million on the scheme. This year we expect to spend €152 million. Part of the increased budget is to provide for the increased rates of payment that flow from the increases in the reference amounts announced in the budget but most of the additional budget is to provide for increased numbers of beneficiaries.

At the end of 2006, more than 23,000 people were in receipt of a weekly FIS payment. This is an increase of over 5,700, or 33%, since the beginning of 2006. The Department received 13,500 new claims in 2006 compared with 8,500 in 2005. This is an increase of 59%. The Department also received 19,500 renewal applications in 2006 compared with 15,000 in 2005. This is an increase of 30%. We have seen large increases in recipient numbers and that led to the processing delays which were brought to our attention last year.

One of the reasons for the large increase in claim volumes is that the scheme has been improved substantially in recent years in order to encourage people with children to take up employment or, if already working, to remain in employment. The reference rates which determine the amount of FIS payable in any individual case are about 50% higher than five years ago while the average industrial wage is about 30% higher than five years ago. FIS is making a more significant relative contribution than it did five years ago.

A second reason for the large increases is the nationwide awareness campaign run by the Department last year. The campaign included advertising on TV, on national and local radio and in the national and regional press. A nationwide poster campaign was also undertaken. The campaign proved very successful and led to a substantial increase in the number of applications.

The Department responded to the increase in the number of claims in three ways. First, additional staff were assigned. Staffing levels are 29% higher than at the beginning of 2006. Second, there was increased funding for overtime. The total amount of overtime worked in the Longford office rose by 62% in 2006 compared with 2005. Third, a review of all processes and procedures was undertaken with the object of reducing delays and minimising disruption to FIS customers. With regard to the third response, priority is being given to renewal claims so that people do not experience a gap in their payment.

As a result of these actions, the number of decisions made on FIS applications in 2006 was 35% higher than the number made in 2005. However, the number of new claims was even greater than this so that we still have a backlog of claims. When we spoke to the joint committee last July that backlog was a cause of concern to the joint committee. I said on that occasion that because it was summer time we had little scope to address the problem but that we hoped to do so after the summer holidays, when our full staffing complement was working. By last September, there were almost 7,000 claims on hand awaiting finalisation. Last Friday there were 5,400. We are making some progress. The current backlog consists of 3,000 new claims and almost 2,400 renewal claims. While this is a considerable improvement on last year, it is nevertheless a higher number than the Department would wish and we need to drive the numbers down further.

The Department is committed to providing a quality service to its customers. This means dealing with applications in a timely manner. We have introduced the measures I have mentioned and we will continue to do whatever we can to improve monitoring and our performance in this area until it is back to where it was before the recent large influx of claims.

Many of my colleagues and I have experience of dealing with officials in the FIS section and they have always been very helpful and courteous. I ask Mr. Ó Raghallaigh to pass that message to them. It is a pleasure to deal with them. They respond quickly to queries and do their best, under much pressure, to facilitate the public and people in receipt of payments.

For a number of years we have been told that the take-up of FIS is lower than expected. We hear estimates that between 30% and 40% of those entitled to the payment are claiming it. Does Mr. Ó Raghallaigh have an estimate of the present take-up? Last year the Minister said he had identified as many as 20,000 families who were eligible but who were not receiving payment and that a review was to be carried out this year. The Minister said an outside body was to be commissioned and the tendering process was to begin this year. Can Mr. Ó Raghallaigh give the committee an update on that project?

New Zealand has a scheme similar to FIS. It is operated through the tax system and has a take-up rate of more than 90%. Can Mr. Ó Raghallaigh suggest how the take-up rate in Ireland can be improved and does he know why it has been so low? I can suggest two reasons. First, the form is extremely long. Second, it has been suggested to me that the fact that an employer must complete part of the form acts as a deterrent. Claimants do not like asking their employer to sign the application form, suggesting that he or she is not paying them enough. Will a promotional campaign be run this year?

Following last year's promotional campaign, did the Department not anticipate an increased demand for the payment and was provision made for that at the time? The Department did not seem to anticipate such a significant increase in demand. It has been suggested that the back to school clothing and footwear allowance be linked with FIS. Not all those who qualify for FIS will qualify for the back to school allowances but they very often apply to the same people. For example, 84,800 families with 172,000 children benefitted from the back to school clothing and footwear allowances last year. I accept that some of those families may not have a member in employment and may be included in other schemes. Nevertheless, has consideration been given to making qualification for one scheme automatic on receipt of the other? This would cut down on bureaucracy and paperwork.

This committee recently met representatives of the End Child Poverty Coalition, who called for an extension of the Department's awareness campaign to which you have referred, Mr. Ó Raghallaigh. Do you have any views on this? Would an extension of the awareness campaign further improve the take-up of FIS? Could the Department be more proactive in the administration of FIS? For example, could the Department examine entitlement to the supplement and alert families as to their entitlement? The new PPS number system gives the Department an up-to-date and automated technology. Could the payment be linked to the tax system, for example?

Deputy Stanton raised the question of the simplification of forms. I urge the Department to examine that matter. Unwieldy and substantial paperwork deters people who are eligible from applying for benefits. I concur with Deputy Stanton when he says the staff in the Longford office are extremely helpful. They are public servants in every sense of the word. They respond and help public representatives while we load them with further detail. The Department of Social and Family Affairs is one of the best Departments I have dealt with. I hope Mr. Ó Raghallaigh will convey that message to the staff.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

I appreciate the kind words about the office in Longford. Mr. Galvin will convey them to his staff. I can take no credit for it as I do not work in Longford.

Work done by the ESRI about ten years ago showed that take-up could be between 30% and 40%. I doubt whether it is at that level now. I do not see how it could be as low as that. Our information systems are much better. The Citizens Information Board, formerly Comhairle, is very strong on providing information through a network of offices. I am not sure the information deficit is so large that such a high percentage of people would not know if they qualify for FIS. More to the point, what are we doing to find out what the percentage take-up might be?

I am interested in the Deputy's suggestion of being more proactive. This is what we propose to do. We have decided to look at the Revenue data, take 1,000 people who have children and are not claiming for FIS and invite them to apply for FIS. Having done that some will apply and some will not. We plan to hire an independent person to examine the reasons for the non-response of those who were invited to apply for FIS. That will shed some light as to the reasons people do not wish to take up the family income supplement payments. We had hoped to have the work started by now but it will start as soon as possible. Ms Marie McEvilly is due to start work in the next couple of weeks and a task high on her agenda will be to move this proposal forward.

Is that the project the Minister referred to last year?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

Yes, that was the exact project. We worked on the project to advance it to the point where we scoped out what the project would entail and the number of claims we would need to look at and so on. The Deputy mentioned how it is operated via the tax system in New Zealand but unfortunately we do not have to go as far as New Zealand to examine it, as the British authorities changed their system some years ago so that it operates through the tax system. I do not wish to comment in depth, except to say it was problematic. It would appear to be a sensible way of going about it. However, Revenue deals with people as individuals whereas the social welfare system is operated on a household basis. Revenue is not always in a position to match up the individuals who form the household and this gave rise to many difficulties.

Deputy Stanton commented on the length of the form and the difficulty of getting employers to sign it. We need the information requested in the form in some cases, but perhaps not in the majority of cases, and there may be scope to have a simpler form that will cover the majority of cases. We need the employer to sign the form as a basic control mechanism. I do not know an easy way around that. I think the employer will have to certify that the person is an employee and is earning a certain wage.

We are planning a further promotion campaign. I am a little reluctant to have it too early in the year until we are up to date with the response from last year's campaign. We are very anxious that anybody who is entitled to it will receive the payment. Our plan is to get the work in that section up to date as quickly as possible and then look at doing a promotional campaign.

As a result of last year's campaign the number of applications increased by 59%. We had planned for a lower level of increase and never imagined that the response would be so overwhelming.

With respect, is Mr. Ó Raghallaigh not contradicting his initial statement that the level of uptake was up to par? Obviously it was not, and there is nothing to suggest that it is up to par this year. I meet people who do not know about the existence of FIS.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

If the uptake was approximately one third, we should have 60,000 availing of FIS. Following the very catchy campaign on radio, television and other media, we received an additional 5,000 claims on the previous year, but there is still a substantial number missing. I am sure there is take-up gap, but I do not think it is in the region of 60%.

What is Mr. Ó Raghallaigh's best guess?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

I would be surprised if the majority of people who are entitled to this payment are not getting it at this stage.

What does that mean?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

I think more than 50% are getting the FIS payment.

That means that just under 50% of those entitled to it may not be receiving it.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

In my view it is under 50%, but I do not know whether it ranges from 20% or 30%. The purpose of the project is to engage consultants who understand this problem to give us hard information.

Should the consultants come back with a figure of 40% what number of families would that entail?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

If the lack of take-up is 40%, one would be looking at an increase of 20,000 households.

One would need more staff then.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

Absolutely.

I join with other members in complimenting the officials in the Department of Social and Family Affairs for their prompt response which is always very helpful.

FIS is a great scheme because it allows people who work in lower paid jobs and may not be sufficiently skilled for higher paid jobs to get a reasonable income. I am a farmer and I know that farmers can avail of farm assist payments, but will Mr. Ó Raghallaigh compare it with FIS to see who comes out better? The self-employed are ineligible for FIS. In some cases, they may be feeling things are pretty hard. Why are they ineligible?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

Since the inception of FIS the self-employed were never included in the scheme because it was designed to support people in employment. It is achieving, to a greater or lesser extent, that objective. The thinking at the time was that if it was extended to the self-employed, other issues would be introduced, such as the opportunities the self-employed have to manipulate their income to come in under whatever bar is there. We see that in terms of higher education grants, where people suggest that there is over preponderance of self-employed people qualifying for those grants, when it would appear to others that their income was at least as good as those in employment who do not qualify for the grant. We were anxious not to bring that type of problem into the social welfare system at that time. Our focus is to get the system working well for the cohort it is intended to support.

Why are people in receipt of FIS not automatically entitled to the back to school clothing and footwear allowance? Obviously, people in receipt of FIS find day-to-day living very tight and when they are clothing their children for school in August and September that is the most difficult time of the year. As the number of people in receipt of FIS is known why do they not get the back to school clothing and footwear allowance automatically?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

The short answer is that it would cost money. If the Minister of the day afforded it sufficient priority in place of something else, it would be done. There is a logic to the Senator's proposal. One part of the social welfare system is saying that the income is too low and supplementing it, so why not recognise that in another part of the social welfare system? It would be necessary to adjust the limits quite significantly. The current limits for the back to school clothing and footwear scheme are significantly below the FIS limits. It would qualify people who are in receipt of FIS. I would expect up to 20,000 additional families to benefit. Other people who are not in receipt of FIS would also qualify. It is a matter of priorities at budget time.

I have been a very strong advocate for carers. Carer's allowance is a means tested payment and is reckoned as part of a person's income in determining eligibility for footwear and clothing allowance. This is one of the meanest aspects. This committee has been a strong advocate for carers. Their task is very demanding and consequently they have a significantly increased expenditure. We raised the matter with the Minister, who feigned surprise.

I note that there were changes in computer systems. Did these changes have any impact on the FIS payments?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

No. We upgraded the FIS computer system about three years ago. It went very smoothly. The Deputy may be referring to our Sligo pensions office.

The means test for the back to school clothing and footwear allowance was changed, not in the last budget but the previous one, to ensure that a person in receipt of carer's allowance would qualify if they did not have any other income.

They would have other income, although not very much if they qualify for the carer's allowance. Such people should automatically receive the clothing and footwear allowance for their children, as Senator Terry has mentioned. We should not become involved in niggardly demarcations to the detriment of people who are providing a valuable service to us all.

What is the average delay in processing claims for family income supplement? It was ten weeks in August last year.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

It is about eight weeks from receipt of application to payment.

Does that include re-applications?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

That refers to new claims. The renewals are fast tracked.

Is the payment backdated to the date of application?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

It is backdated to the time of application. Mr. Galvin assures me that the processing time is six weeks. Let us say it is six to eight weeks.

Many applicants might have been entitled to the allowance had they claimed it a year or two earlier. Is any allowance made for such people?

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

In the ordinary course of events we cannot backdate payments more than three months in respect of new claims, almost regardless of the circumstances. We have to operate from a current date.

So you would go back just three months.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

In the case of family income supplement it is from the date of application. In other schemes we can go back.

I thank Mr. Ó Raghallaigh, Mr.Galvin and Ms McEvilly for helping us to understand not just the concept of FIS but the administrative issues that arise. I hope they will bring our suggestions to the new Minister in due course. I am sure some us will see them back again.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

In case the Chairman and the committee do not see me back again before forthcoming events, I wish you all the best of luck.

Mr. O'Raghallaigh will be there, but we might not.

Mr. Ó Raghallaigh

It is a spectator sport.

Sitting suspended at 3.46 p.m. and resumed at 3.47.
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