JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 1 Sep 2009

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

Apologies have been received from Deputy Fitzpatrick and Senators Cannon and Hannigan. The minutes from our meeting of 28 July have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

The next item on our agenda is correspondence received by the joint committee. No. 550 is a list of proposals on EU legislation from the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny. Is it agreed to note the item? Agreed. Nos. 551 and 552 are newsletters and shall be noted. No. 553 is another Europe's World newsletter, which shall be noted. No. 554 is a policy research paper on urban environmental sustainability from the European Urban Knowledge Network. We note the item.

The next matter of correspondence is a press release from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government concerning grant aid allocations to voluntary and co-operative housing bodies.

Deputy James Bannon

At our last meeting we discussed the possibility of holding a session on the various grants, including disabled person's and essential repairs grants. Perhaps the correspondence could be discussed on that occasion.

Chairman

Is that agreed? Everybody is concerned about the issue. We will discuss the entire area of disability and mobility aid grants.

Deputy James Bannon

We all receive letters from local authorities indicating that their funds have been exhausted.

Chairman

We will put the matter on our agenda. We will hear from the Housing Finance Agency at our next meeting but we will deal primarily with social and affordable housing issues.

Deputy Johnny Brady

My council has written to people who are lucky enough to qualify for these grants. Unfortunately, it is putting a two-month limit for completion of the work. Even in the present circumstances, it is deplorable to impose such a time limit.

Chairman

We should raise that matter with departmental officials when they come before us because local authority practices differ in this regard. Some make their allocations early in the year so that the work is completed properly over the summer but others operate on a quarterly basis, thereby causing problems. Some local authorities are better than others.

Deputy James Bannon

The recommendations come from the strategic policy committees on housing. At the end of the day, the decision is made by councillors.

Chairman

The Department could ask for consistency.

Deputy Johnny Brady

They should all act in the same way.

Chairman

Regardless of whether they live in Westmeath, Cork or Laois, people are entitled to equal treatment from their local authorities. We will ask the Department to address the issue in advance of our meeting.

No. 556 is an acknowledgment by Repak of previous correspondence. We shall note the item. No. 557 is a reply from the Minister for Finance regarding queries raised by the joint committee concerning the extension of the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General's audit to include the Dublin Docklands Development Authority's accounts. The authority's accounts are examined by external auditors and the Minister stated that legislation does not allow the Comptroller and Auditor General to carry out an audit. He does not plan to change this arrangement.

No. 558 is a reply to queries raised by the joint committee on building energy assessors on foot of a complaint about certification practices. We can note the correspondence and await a comment from the Irish Vocational Education Association, IVEA, and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, in which regard reminders have been issued. We wrote to FÁS, IVEA and the Minister. We all know training for building energy assessors is a big issue this year.

The next item is a reply from An Bord Pleanála to a query by the joint committee regarding the processing time in determining planning appeals.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

It would be interesting to know why one appeal has taken almost three years thus far.

Chairman

The matter is addressed in the letter. It concerns a case involving the Dublin Docklands Development Authority which has been before the courts during most of the period in question.

Deputy James Bannon

On that issue, we usually invite Mr. John O'Connor before the committee when An Bord Pleanála's report is published later in the year. Perhaps we will circulate this letter, having regard to that meeting.

Chairman

Absolutely. Is that agreed? We shall raise it with An Bord Pleanála. We are awaiting a further letter from that body because we wrote to it last month concerning the costs of various court cases in which it is involved. We shall send a reminder regarding that correspondence.

Item No. 560 concerns radon policy. The Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland and the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, have acknowledged receipt of books of replies. This committee compiled a great deal of information from local authorities and sent it to the institute and the Minister.

Item No. 561 is a wildlife publication from the national parks and wildlife service, which we note, and members can study it.

Item No. 562 is a press release on water safety from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which we note.

Item No. 563 is a letter from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, on waste water treatment services. It is a reply to the third report by the committee on the regulation of waste water treatment services in Ireland and related matters. The committee will remember that we compiled a report on septic tanks. The Minister has read it, agrees with much of what we have done and will be incorporating a number of our recommendations into future changes and regulations.

Item No. 564, on the administration of licensing, is a letter from Mr. Howard Condell, managing director of McConnells, following previous correspondence. There is a significant issue concerning the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA. I do not know which member of the committee asked for this although I examined it. Perhaps we shall defer the item until the next meeting when people will have had time to look at this letter. I am not familiar with the background.

Item No. 565 is a research paper from the European Knowledge Network, which we note.

Item No. 566 is a press release from the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Michael Finneran, concerning the USI rent book, which we note.

Item No. 567 is a press release from the Department concerning National Heritage Week, which we note.

Item No. 568 is a note received yesterday concerning a training seminar on the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009, to take place from Friday to Sunday, 18 to 20 September, at the King's Valley Hotel, Merlin Park, Galway. The committee has no funds to go to conferences between now and the end of the year. A group is running conferences for local authority members. Plenty of information on this will be available to the House during discussion of the Bill.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I suggest we should have a meeting.

Chairman

That would be to discuss the Bill in advance of its going through the Oireachtas.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

The amendment Bill is very important legislation.

Chairman

That is a good idea. Does the Deputy wish that people from the Department should brief the committee on the Bill?

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I do, yes, because it is very important legislation.

Chairman

That should happen prior to Second Stage debate. If we had more information it would be helpful all round and would assist people to contribute to the debate.

Deputy Johnny Brady

It would be no harm to have a debate among ourselves when the officials leave.

Chairman

We will arrange that. We have suggested that Department officials should talk about the Planning Bill and we are to arrange a date for a meeting to discuss the different grants for house improvement and mobility aids.

That concludes correspondence to the committee. There are other items, namely, statutory instruments and circulars issued by the Department. We have rightly insisted that the committee should receive a copy of every circular issued to every local authority so that we can be fully aware of what is happening on the ground instead of hearing about it third hand. If members wish to discuss any of these in detail——

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

If I may ask——

Chairman

Of the statutory instruments, the first is No. 81, concerning the control on certain shipments of radioactive waste and spent fuel. The second concerns surface water regulations. Did the Deputy wish to ask about the statutory instruments or the circulars?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The circulars.

Chairman

We will come to them. I will take them in sequence and the Deputy can stop me when I reach the one to which he is referring. Circular No. 08/09 is about payments for housing inspections.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

That is the one, Chairman. The committee might recall the meeting we held recently on the Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB, and the amount of money, over €10 million, it had on account to carry out inspections. This will release €1.2 million for inspections to be carried out. What is interesting about the circular is that there appears to be a massive disparity between local authorities with regard to the percentage of inspections being carried out. Some local authorities are carrying out inspections of 42% of registered dwellings in their areas, while others are carrying out inspections of between 4% and 5% of such dwellings. The money appears to be targeted at local authorities which set high targets but there does not appear to be any penalty for local authorities which are setting very modest targets. It is interesting that a number of local authorities have set lower targets for inspections for 2010, which is what this money is allocated for, than for this year. This is an ongoing issue, given that every property registered with the PRTB has €50 ring-fenced for inspections to be carried out. This is income that is generated specifically for a purpose on which it is not being spent. This is a matter of importance and the committee should allocate time for a debate on it.

Chairman

We had a major discussion with representatives of the Private Residential Tenancies Board just before the summer. As this is directly related, we cannot bring them back again.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

No. If you look at the notes, Chairman, you will note that the PRTB has no responsibility for inspections. Its responsibility is to hold the money on account. It is the local authorities' responsibility to carry out the inspections and it is the responsibility of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to ensure they are carried out. It is ultimately a departmental issue. The PRTB is only a holding station for the money; it has no role in carrying out inspections. Perhaps some staff from the Department should be invited to explain to the committee how the inspection regime is being implemented, whether it is to their satisfaction — it is certainly not to mine — and what measures or improvements they plan for inspection rates. In the Cork City and County Council areas the inspection rates are 6% and 7%, respectively. No follow-up inspections are carried out when houses are found to be substandard. According to the circular, Monaghan County Council carried out more inspections than there are registered properties in the county. It would be interesting to find out how the Department is calculating these figures and what it is doing to monitor them.

Chairman

I understand the Deputy's point. According to the figures for County Laois, there are 112 inspections but there are over 2,000 properties registered. At that rate it will take the council 20 years to carry out one inspection of each of the registered properties.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

There is a €50 fee with each of the registrations for an inspection to be carried out. This is not money the Department must find from the Exchequer.

Chairman

It is sitting on deposit.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Every landlord commits €50 of the registration fee for an inspection to be carried out. There is no excuse for these percentage rates.

Chairman

What does the Deputy propose?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I propose that officers from the relevant section of the Department or perhaps the Minister be invited to appear before the committee to explain how the Department is overseeing the inspection regime as currently implemented, whether it considers it to be satisfactory and, if not, what it is planning to do to improve it.

Chairman

They could also explain why all the money that has been collected is sitting on deposit.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

There is a great deal of money sitting on deposit and only €1.2 million is being released.

Chairman

Is that proposal agreed to? Agreed. That is in order.

The next item is Circular 13/09 on performance related bonus payments. I believe it states there will be no more.

The next item is Circular 05/09 — Waste Management (Prohibition of Waste Disposal by Burning) Regulations. Circular 03/09 — SLI — Support to Live Independently — relates to a new scheme of housing and support to progress from homelessness. Document AHSI 2009 relates to measures to deal with unsold affordable homes and related issues. Document N3/09 relates to new leasing arrangements in the social housing investment programme. Document LG 11/09 deals with reconstitution of the membership of county and city development boards after the local elections. The next item is LG 1109, reconstruction of membership of city and council development boards after the local elections. The next item is 1409, nomination of social partner representative to county development boards. The next item is 609, wind energy development planning permissions and grid connections. It is a letter from the Department asking local authorities to go easy on expiry dates for planning permission for wind energy projects where the work has not been completed. The next item is 0909, waste management farm plastics regulations.

The next item is 3709, distribution of polling information for the Lisbon treaty referendum. The next item is 3509, inventory verification of electronic voting equipment stored locally. I found that interesting.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The circular that issued to the different centres holding the voting machines does not contain an end date. The State has entered contracts for the next 20 to 25 years to store these machines in holding stations. There is no indication in the circular about how the State will get out of the leases. Departmental officials should be invited to appear before the committee to update us. A deadline of 3 September was set out in the circular for county sheriffs to report back on the number of machines in storage and the ancillary equipment that might also be held on site and to audit everything being held in these stations and, ultimately, come up with a plan. Like other committee members, I would like to know what is the burial date for the machines. Has the funeral parlour been booked, given the open-ended approach to the project? Significant Exchequer moneys are committed to storage of the machines indefinitely and it would be interesting to find out how the liabilities attaching to the leases will be minimised for the taxpayer.

Deputy James Bannon

Some time ago, the committee sought information from local authorities about the storage of the machines.

Chairman

That has been established.

Deputy James Bannon

We did not receive a reply from every local authority on this issue and we should follow up with those that have not responded to date to secure the information. They should put that information before the committee.

Chairman

That information has been established.

Deputy James Bannon

Not in its entirety.

Chairman

The purpose of the circular is to verify the inventory. For example, personal computers and printers were provided with the voting machines for the count centres. Some have been used for manual counts at elections and, therefore, some of the equipment has been used and the Department is trying to establish what is left for resale or disposal. The committee will ask the Department to urgently furnish us with the results of the questionnaires it sent out to establish what equipment is out there and we will take it from there. It will take the Department a while to get that. We will pursue this through correspondence before scheduling a meeting.

The next item is the cessation of electronic voting and counting project, which is a related issue. The next item is 3609, a poster for the Lisbon treaty. The next item is 3409, further information on the Lisbon treaty. The next item is 0609, a letter seeking enforcement data relating to litter. The next items are 0309 and 409, local authority loans regulations 2009. The next item is 0609, local authority mortgage protection insurance.

The next item is 809, breakage cost to be applied on the early redemption or conversion of five-year fixed rate mortgages. Many people have examined this topic. I refer to people in local authority housing breaking loans. The breakage fee for a person on a five-year fixed rate for a €150,000 mortgage, who has four years remaining, is approximately €14,000. The committee has complained about the banks applying high breakage fees but local authorities, on the direct instruction of the Department, have similar breakage fees for people wishing to switch to a variable rate. It is important to note that local authorities are applying the same procedures as the banks. It made interesting reading. I am sorry for detaining members with the large number of circulars which arrived during the summer. However, we asked to be informed and sometimes they contain an interesting nugget of information which is worth pursuing.

The next items are: WPPR 10/09, Subvention of Operating Costs of Recycling Facilities; S.4.2009, Public Service Pension Reform, Revised method for reckoning variable pensionable allowances for pension purposes; LG 16/09, local policing fora; and F.38/09, postal voting for military personnel. That is for the Lisbon treaty referendum.

The next items are: LG (P) 09/09, Public Sector Employment — Quarterly Staffing Returns; LG(P)11/09, Implementation of Saving Measures on Public Service Numbers — Peace 111 and INTERREG programmes; LG(P)10/09, Local Authority Freedom of Information Statistical Returns; LSS 05/09, Public Library Subsidies (Leases); PHS 05/09, Reminder for Inspection Targets and Confirmation of Bank Account Details; EL 07/09, Subsistence Allowances Abroad; LG(P)08/09, Allocations under National Disability Strategy 2009; EL 08(A)/09, Special Local Authority Incentive Career Break Scheme; LG(P)09/09, Public Sector Employment — Local Authority June 2009 Quarter Return; EL 09/09 Shorter Working Year Scheme; WSP 5/09, Water Services Pricing Policy Implementation; WSP 5/09, Management Information Questionnaire 2008; TAU 3/2009, Local Traveller Accommodation Consultative Committees (LTACCs); IPPP 4/2009, refers to previous circulars IPPP 1, 2, and 3/2009; and PD8/09, ECJ Case C-75/08, Mellor v . Secretary of State. This case concerned environmental impact assessments. Any member who wishes to study this matter is free to do so.

The next item is HGS 02/09, Revised Suite of Grants for Older People and People with a Disability. This will come into the discussion, as referred to by Deputy Bannon. The next items are: HGS 01/09 2009, Capital Allocations for Disabled Persons and Essential Repairs Grant Schemes; HU 2/09, Funding for Homeless Accommodation and Related Services 2009; LG 09/09 Re: Joint Policing Committees — reconstitution following local elections; LG 11/09, Strategic Policy Committees; LH 11/09, Reconstitution of Membership of County/City Development Board and Community and Voluntary Fora following Local Elections 2009; BC 1/09, Building Control Statistics July-December 2008; and LG(P)02/09, Initiative to Provide Wheelchairs for Local Authorities under the National Disability Strategy. This scheme makes wheelchairs available to every local authority for use in public libraries and offices. Wheelchairs are provided but not staff to push them.

The next items are: LG 15/09 Induction Course for Newly Elected Local Authority Members; LG(P)14/09, Public Sector Employment — Local Authority Sector Staffing Movements; and LG(P)13/09 Staffing Moratorium.

That concludes the extensive list of correspondence. The meeting will suspend for some moments while our guests take their positions.

Sitting suspended at 2.34 p.m. and resumed at 2.35 p.m.