JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Oct 2009

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

I ask all members to ensure their mobile phones are turned off fully. The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the meeting of 22 September 2009, which have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

The next item on the agenda is correspondence received by the joint committee that has been circulated since the last meeting. The first such item of correspondence is a letter from Mr. Howard McConnell, managing director of International Coatings Limited. This is an old item of correspondence that has been with the joint committee for a while and which has deferred it repeatedly. It relates to a person who is unhappy with the procedures of the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government regarding the issuing of his licences, the costs thereof and various appeals he has made. As I do not believe the joint committee can become involved in this matter at all, I suggest members should simply note it and move on. I reiterate this is an old item of correspondence that has been with the joint committee for a couple of months but which we keep putting off. It comprises a significant chunk of correspondence from a company that trades as McConnells Coatings and Adhesives. Its manager is not happy with the licensing procedures, the costs of the inspections or the manner in which the regulatory authorities have been replying to his letters. The correspondence includes copious replies from the EPA, running to pages upon pages, as well as a list of 30 items of correspondence it has issued to him. His point is the EPA does not reply properly to him and he obviously is dissatisfied with the way things work. However, I do not believe the joint committee can get involved in this matter. There are reams of correspondence from both sources. Ultimately, this man is entitled to be unhappy and there is not much this joint committee can do to make him happy. At this point, members should note this correspondence and simply move on.

The next item is a request from Deputy Naughten to discuss the flooding in the Shannon callows. The joint committee has agreed to this and will place it on its work programme. However, it was noted that members should seek information from the Office of Public Works and various State bodies that have information to hand before groups appear before the joint committee. Consequently, members will be in a position to have an informed and orderly meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a press release from the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Finneran, regarding the Irish National Community and Voluntary Forum regional conference in Cavan. We will note it.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

As I cannot find this item on my e-mail system, I would appreciate a copy of the Minister of State's press release regarding the community and voluntary forum.

Chairman

The Deputy may take my copy.

The next item is a press release concerning the Minister's address to the international workshop of the European Association for Architectural Education. Is it agreed to note this press release from the Department? Agreed. The next item is a list of decisions taken at the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny, which is noted for correspondence. The next item is correspondence from an organisation called Just Forests that has appeared before the joint committee. It comprises an information note on the activities of that group, which the joint committee will note. The next item is a breakdown of balances due at the end of December 2008 by local authorities on foot of capital loan and subsidy schemes for lending by them to voluntary housing associations in respect of the rental social housing area, from the Housing Finance Agency. I suspect this item follows on from the joint committee's recent meeting with the Housing Finance Agency and is information the agency was asked to provide to the members. It contains a long list of balances that may be of interest to members in respect of their own local authority areas, if they wish to examine it.

The next item pertains to information on the number of tenant purchase schemes, shared ownership and affordable housing units that have been processed over the past five years, from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. This also is follow-up information arising from the joint committee's meeting with the Housing Finance Agency.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Will it be possible for the joint committee to have a discussion with representatives from the Department on the shared ownership scheme? Quite a number of people have been caught in a difficult position in that they may have borrowed within the last three or four years. At present, although such people pay half the mortgage, their rents are substantially higher than the amount they would pay for a full mortgage and yet they are not in position to secure a full mortgage. Moreover, the value of their properties has decreased by between 20% and 25% or in some cases by 30%. While those affected are not numerous nationally, anyone who is in this position definitely has been badly caught and this matter must be addressed in some way.

Chairman

The joint committee might first send a letter seeking information before——

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

If I may add to this point, I have taken note of some correspondence from the Department regarding an omission or error in the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act with which it is now proposed to deal retrospectively. It pertains to the clawback provision in the affordable housing scheme and is similar to the difficulty to which Deputy Scanlon has referred. The Department has raised the possibility of bringing forward legislation, whether as part of the review of the Residential Tenancies Act or otherwise, to correct this anomaly. Perhaps these two issues could be dealt with together because they pertain to a similar area of responsibility within the Department anyway and they both could be considered at the same time.

Chairman

Should we first seek a written note on this matter before proceeding?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Yes, if possible.

Chairman

Very well. We will seek a written note on the suggested amendment.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

There is an omission in the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill dealing with the affordable housing clawback provision. The Department is aware of this and it is a matter of how it sets about addressing it.

Chairman

Deputy Scanlon's request concerns information on the shared ownership schemes. What information is he looking for?

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

People are paying half of the mortgage and rent on a house, which amounts to more than what they would pay if they had a full mortgage on that same house. That is the problem. After 20 or 25 years they must still buy out the other half. This does not refer to the clawback provision but to the shared ownership scheme.

Chairman

I have never advised anyone to take up the shared ownership scheme. It is a despicable scheme.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I thought it was very good for someone to get on the housing ladder.

Chairman

It is effectively asking people to take out a 25 year mortgage and then to start on a second mortgage.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Unfortunately there are people in that situation at the moment.

Chairman

We will write to the Department seeking information because it must receive regular quarterly housing statistics from local authorities.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

These are local authority loans, with half of the money paid through a mortgage and half through rent.

Deputy James Bannon

We should push this further, we need a review of that scheme. It is not working properly.

Deputy Phil Hogan

With the new income related scheme, one buys equity in the house and this could supersede the shared ownership scheme. Some of the proposals are being worked on at the moment. Perhaps we should invite the Minister or his officials to examine what they are planning to launch.

Chairman

Perhaps those in the shared ownership scheme can transfer to the new scheme.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

They are paying mortgage and rent and this amounts to a sum greater than what they would pay for a straight loan. These are local authority loans and people should be allowed to transfer it into a straightforward loan and pay the amount of the mortgage. In this way, at least they will own the house after 20 years and will not have to face into another 20 years of mortgage payments.

Chairman

Included in the correspondence is a copy of a parliamentary question answered in May concerning the number of repossessions by local authorities. Some 62 houses have been repossessed by local authorities over the past five years.

The next item is the Europe's World newsletter Nos. 33 and 34. We will note that. The next item is an e-mail complaining about the granting of planning permission for a mast and refusal of planning permission in other cases. I have not had an opportunity to examine this. We can hold this over until the next day as it seems to be an individual query. The next item is a European policy update newsletter from Globe International. We will note that. The next item concerns follow-up information from the meeting with the Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB, regarding the recruitment of adjudicators and mediators.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I have read the response from the PRTB. It gives an outline of the recruitment process but the information we sought was wider than this. We sought to determine how many adjudications were being carried out per day, how much was paid to adjudicators and the possibility of increasing the number of adjudications carried out per day. The reply does not deal with this.

Chairman

We will reply seeking full information. The next item, No. 603, is a request by the Sustainable Energy Association to make a presentation to the committee. I do not know the organisation. We should refer this item to the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security. The next item is an invitation to a half-day plenary session of the National Economic and Social Forum in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham on 21 October. We have decided that we will not attend further conferences so we will note this item.

The next item is from Mr. John O'Connor, company solicitor, concerning written comments made by the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers regarding the appearance of the Irish Property Owners Association at a previous meeting. We will note and acknowledge the correspondence. I am a little confused by the two groups.

Deputy Phil Hogan

A bit like the Greens. They are a group of auctioneers against someone.

Chairman

The two groups are the Irish Property Owners Association and the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers. The next item is written replies to queries raised by the committee on behalf of Deputy Andrew Doyle regarding legislation on dog breeding establishments. We will note that correspondence.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

I missed that point.

Chairman

It is a reply from the private secretary at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government about the issue raised by Deputy Andrew Doyle. We will hold this matter over and provide a copy to the Deputy. It is a short response of one page, stating that the Minister wishes to respond to the five issues raised by the Deputy. One concerns the legislation for the regulation of dog breeding establishments under the control of dogs regime. This is included in the Department's programme as it was the then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in 2004 who called for a report from the working group on dog breeding establishments. It was intended that legislation would be formulated by way of statutory instruments under section 19 of the existing Control of Dogs Act. However, subsequent advice to the Minister indicated that fresh primary legislation was required and the Minister is finalising his proposal in this regard and hopes to publish shortly. No formal interdepartmental working group has an established with the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food but close liaison is being maintained by relevant officials in both Departments. The draft amendment Bill provides for the regulatory regime to be self-financing in that it sets registration charges to be payable to the relevant local authority.

The draft control of dogs (amendment) Bill 2009 is in the final stages of preparation and the Minister expects to publish it shortly. The Bill aims to be compatible with the animal health and welfare Bill. As the amendment Bill will be finalised shortly, the Minister considers that introducing an amendment to primary legislation is the most appropriate way. The Department is examining a number of options for a national database for storing dog microchip information. The Minister is promising new primary legislation on this issue in 2009. It will be called the control of dogs (amendment) Bill 2009. I have seen no further details.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Various organisations have concerns, particularly registered hunting clubs.

Chairman

I think they are excluded.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

They are not excluded, that is the problem. I do not know if the Minister made a U-turn on this because he said that they were to be exempt from any regulations. Such clubs are regulated to an even higher standard than what the Minister proposes. They have no input into what he is proposing at the moment and they have concerns about this. They understood that they were to be exempt from this and it is unfair to introduce legislation that affects them. It was never meant to be this way when first mooted by the then Minister, Deputy Dick Roche.

We agree that puppy farming for commercial gain must be regulated to the highest degree because we can see that it is being abused. The issue concerns registered hunting clubs, who are not in the business for gain and do not sell products. We must discuss this at the earliest possible opportunity.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I am sure the legislation will have to come before this committee. Our understanding was that hunting clubs would be excluded. They have a very high standard of care of their dogs and we all have clubs in our areas. I am very concerned by it. There is not much we can do about it now but when the legislation comes before us the committee will be able to amend it and raise our concerns. Legislation must be introduced on this because we all know about the abuse and cruelty taking place on puppy farms. I fully support the introduction of legislation to curb this type of activity. However, hunting clubs should be excluded.

Chairman

We will deal with it on that basis. It will come before the committee again. No. 607 is an information note from the Oireachtas communications unit on the committee media coverage report. Members can read and study it and we will note the correspondence. No. 608 is an invitation to the annual economic, social and cultural rights — making states accountable conference to be held in Blackhall Place on 21 November. We will note the correspondence but we will not send a representative.

The final item of correspondence is on a conference on ethics in public life and social government. It looks like something that is sent to local authority members so we will just note it.

Next are the circulars received since the previous meeting from the Department that have gone to local authorities and the first is PHS 09/2009 on housing authority inspections of rented accommodation.

Senator Paudie Coffey

May I seek clarification on that and if the information is not available today perhaps the clerk can obtain it from the Department? Do the same inspection standards applied to the private rental sector apply to council houses and houses contracted under the rental accommodation scheme?

Chairman

Yes, we will send a note to the Department and obtain clarification.

Senator Paudie Coffey

I thank the Chairman.

Chairman

The next circular is on the quarterly staffing returns and the following is on the revised arrangements for the management of social housing projects. The next item is the explanatory memorandum on the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. The next item is a further memorandum on the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. The next item is on housing action plan meetings in autumn 2009 and the next item is a housing action plan meetings appendix. The next item is an affordable housing review form and the final item is a circular to finance officers requesting details on attendance at conferences and seminars by local councillors.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Two items of correspondence issued last week are missing from the list. They were on setting population targets for each region in the context of planning.

Chairman

We do not have them.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Will the Chairman inquire about them as this issue has serious consequences for planning?

Chairman

We will follow up that immediately and when we receive them we will circulate them to the committee. I wrote to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to ensure that all circulars, and not only circulars from the Department, are copied to the committee as a matter of practice. Circulars are sent to local authorities by various Departments and we do not hear about them although this is the committee with responsibility for local government. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is not aware of all the circulars being issued to local authorities from other Departments; no system is in place and I verified that with the Department.

With regard to the publication of correspondence, the office is making arrangements to web-publish all correspondence received by the committee once it has been noted at a meeting. Members should be aware that privilege does not exist on correspondence and a decision should be taken at each meeting to make exceptions to the publication policy if it deemed appropriate. Members should also note that web-publishing is done by the office on a priority basis and Bills, reports and schedules are taken in that order. This, together with the volume of documents, will impact on the speed at which our correspondence will be published.

Deputy James Bannon

The Chairman stated the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is now aware of documentation being issued to local authorities.

Chairman

Correct.

Deputy James Bannon

That is a very serious situation.

Chairman

That is why the Department of Transport will be represented at this meeting for the next item on the agenda.

Deputy James Bannon

We should write to the Minister about this.

Chairman

We have done so.

Deputy James Bannon

Who issues those circulars?

Chairman

We are moving on to that business next. The Department of Transport and the NRA issued circulars to local authorities that had not gone through the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Deputy James Bannon

There is no joined-up thinking.

Chairman

Correct. As a result of our committee's work a system has been put in place to deal with it. That is one of the reasons we are here today. All correspondence from the previous meeting is now on the Oireachtas website and this will be done from here on in.

The next item concerns an invitation to attend the GLOBE international conference on the environment in Vancouver, Canada from 24 to 26 March 2010. In light of current circumstances I propose to postpone decisions on travel by committee members. I have no intention of approving a trip to Vancouver today.