We move to the main purpose of the meeting, namely, the distribution of financial assistance to those worse hit by recent flooding. Following calls last week from members of this committee, we arranged a briefing on the financial assistance being offered. I welcome the officials from the Department of Social and Family Affairs who represent the Minister, Deputy Hanafin, who oversees the aid package. We are joined by Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh, assistant secretary, and Mr. Kieran O'Dwyer, assistant principal. The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Martin Mansergh, will speak on flooding. At this stage perhaps we should deal with the package being administered by the Department of Social and Family Affairs and move immediately to the flooding issue.
Financial Aid to Flooded Areas: Discussion.
I will include that.
That is fine. We are joined by the Minister of State at the Department of Finance with special responsibility for the Office of Public Works, Deputy Mansergh. He is accompanied by Mr. Tony Smith, chief engineer, and Mr. John Curtin, principal officer. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, replied to the committee's invitation to attend, stating that the distribution of financial aid is substantially a matter for the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Hanafin, and her Department. He stated his officials will be happy to attend at a future date when the committee will deal with the planning system and flood risk management guidelines for planning authorities to which I referred just a moment ago.
I ask the Minister of State to make an opening statement.
I am here out of courtesy to the committee because, by strict construction, humanitarian aid does not relate to the Office of Public Works. On the other hand, we provide humanitarian aid of an engineering sort to flood victims. I do not propose to read my entire statement which will be circulated but I shall speak to the most relevant parts and the remaining information will be available to the committee.
In recognition of the severe impact of the flooding in recent weeks, the Government announced an initial fund of €10 million to assist flooding victims, to be administered by the Department of Social and Family Affairs, which will provide means-tested financial support to people who have suffered damage to their homes. The Government indicated on many occasions that further funding for the scheme will be made available, if required.
It is very important to stress that this assistance scheme is in addition to the payments community welfare officers are making currently to families who need urgent financial assistance with basics such as food, clothing and bedding. In recent floods in individual parts of humanitarian assistance has been wholly covered by the work of community welfare officers. Hundreds of families have also been provided with temporary accommodation. This funding will continue to be disbursed to individuals and families as required, and is a demand-led scheme. I have observed it working very effectively in Clonmel with staff loaned temporarily from other Departments. A point was made in the Dáil that community welfare officers are overburdened. As I observed the scheme operating in Clonmel, they were able to draw in, on a temporary basis, personnel from other Departments to assist for the two to three-week period required.
The main details of the humanitarian assistance fund are that it will be administered on the ground by the local community welfare services and will provide hardship alleviation assistance, as opposed to full compensation, to householders affected by the flooding. Damage to a person's home and its basic contents, such as carpets, flooring, furniture, household appliances and bedding, will be the main criteria. Structural damage may also be considered. Eligibility will be subject to a means test, details of which will be announced later today.
Assistance will not be given for losses which are covered by insurance. Commercial and business losses will not qualify for humanitarian assistance. County enterprise boards are in a position to help the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment assess the situation as it affects small businesses. Applications will be prioritised so that the most urgent ones can be dealt with very quickly.
The Government has also agreed to a targeted fodder aid scheme and the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Smith, has announced that €2 million is being allocated for this purpose. This is in addition to the wider humanitarian aid scheme just mentioned. Details of the fodder aid scheme will be announced shortly. As I have witnessed in counties Galway, Westmeath and Roscommon, many farmers are suffering severe hardship with their herds being some distance from buildings, marooned and mainly inaccessible, reachable only by high vehicles through several feet of water, if at all.
Regarding major flood events, OPW engineering services have a number of critical functions which must be completed in so far as possible. The primary functions for the OPW include, first, data collection. The nature and type of data required to be collected during major flood events was detailed in previous documentation. For example, aerial photographs are being taken, not only with regard to the present flooding events but regarding many previous events over at least the past ten to 12 years in order to build up data about areas at risk which will be of assistance in flood risk mapping. The OPW also has a maintenance division to ensure all critical flood defence measures are in a proper repair and effective condition. This relates to the schemes for which we are responsible. We also assist emergency services in responding to flood events.
OPW engineers and technicians are all out in the affected areas giving advice and collecting data and assisting with sandbag filling and distribution. Aerial surveys of the affected areas in counties Cork, Limerick, Galway, Clare and Tipperary have been undertaken by OPW staff and hydrometric information about flood levels continues to be gathered. The data gathered will greatly assist with regard to planning matters and the flood risk assessments of major catchments in the country.
The OPW is already reviewing, along with the relevant local authorities, what has happened to date, both in the areas where OPW has no current involvement but also where its flood relief schemes have been completed or where it is currently in the process of undertaking schemes. The OPW has also offered its services and equipment to local authorities to assist in the clean-up of the affected areas in the coming days.
While the Government recognises the seriousness of the current situation, I am pleased to say that there are many areas in the country, which would have flooded but for flood defence schemes constructed by the OPW in recent years. These include Kilkenny, Carrick-on-Suir and the northern part of Mallow town where the scheme has just been completed and where the defences, including the demountables, were an unqualified success. Substantially completed schemes in Ennis and Clonmel also prevented flooding from occurring in some areas previously prone to such flooding. My officials also inform me that flooding would most likely have taken place in Leixlip, Duleek, Trim and Hazelhatch without the defences constructed by the OPW over recent years. Although the cleaning of channels is worthwhile, as has been pointed out in the media in the past few days, river maintenance alone would not have prevented the serious flooding of recent days. Such maintenance is most useful in the context of routine flood events.
The Office of Public Works, while not the primary response agency in flooding emergency situations, has nonetheless supplemented the efforts of the local authorities in their response to the recent flooding crisis. In particular, it has offered to local authorities the limited manpower, equipment and services it has available in the regions in addition to undertaking measures in respect of its own schemes and defences.
In the mid-west area, the OPW has provided pumping facilities in Plassey, Limerick, where, as of Saturday, some of the campus but not the buildings is flooded, and the Sixmilebridge and Bunratty areas. The OPW has also drafted in pumping facilities to Ennis, Shannon Banks and other areas of Limerick to help with the situation in those places. It has constructed an emergency 400 m long embankment in Shannon Banks in advance of a high tide there today. It has also been very active in the Galway and south Mayo areas by providing pumping facilities to clear roads and help relieve flooding around housing in less urban areas. I have given a detailed list to the committee which outlines where pumps and other assistance have been given in a number of different locations.
I will comment briefly on each page of the rest of my presentation because it provides background information on what the committee is discussing today. A 2004 flood management review group made recommendations on what flood risk management policy should be and substantial progress has been made by the OPW, which is the lead agency in implementing the reports on improving flood management systems.
The need to deal in a proactive manner with the issue of flood risk was recognised by the review. In this regard, the OPW in partnership with Cork city and county councils initiated a major pilot study in 2006, which is now nearing completion, to assess the degree of flood risk in the Lee catchment and the possible measures for its management. Flood maps for the areas known or considered to be at risk have been produced and are publicly available through the project website, www.leecframs.ie.
A draft catchment flood risk management plan setting out measures for managing flood risk in the Lee catchment will be available for public consultation before the end of the year. Similar studies of the Dodder and Suir rivers, and Fingal and east Meath are taking place and more localised plans have been completed for Portarlington and Tullamore. Procurement of flood risk studies for the remaining catchments will commence in late 2010. The presentation contains a table on the studies currently under way. The objective is to complete all flood risk management studies completed over the next six years to coincide with dates set out in the EU floods directive which will be transposed into domestic law before the end of the year. The end result of each study will be a catchment flood risk assessment and management plan and the effects of climate change will be considered at every stage.
As a parallel measure, a flood hazard maps website, www.floodmaps.ie, was created which has valuable historical data on flood events and which is useful to planners. We are also continuing strategic studies on coastal protection. Flood forecasting and warning works very well in certain parts of the country. By providing adequate warning of an impending flood, residents and local authorities can take action to reduce the impact, such as moving valuables, erecting protection measures, including demountables, distributing sand bags and closing off at-risk areas.
Yesterday, along with my colleague the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, I launched guidelines on the management of flood risk in planning and development, the main objective of which is to avoid the creation of additional problems and developments in flood plains where possible. An interesting development took place in Carrick-on-Shannon today where a former colleague of the Fine Gael members of the committee promoted development on stilts over flood plains which allows floods to rise without affecting the large buildings above. It may be one way around the problem. At significant extra cost he addressed the problem and the risk.
The presentation contains a list of the local authority minor works for 2009. It is a new scheme which opened in the middle of this year. I anticipate many more applications for the fund where relatively limited minor works are deemed to make a difference. It will be up to the local authorities to make a submission to my Department which will be dealt with expeditiously and without undue bureaucracy. There is a parallel scheme for coastal protection works in 2009. The presentation also contains a list of the OPW's major flood defence programme, including what has been completed and what stage different schemes are at.
Between the 1940s and 1980s the OPW completed arterial drainage schemes in 34 river catchments, benefitting 253,000 hectares of land. These schemes were designed to provide outfall for the drainage of agricultural lands and provide protection up to the three year flood event. The OPW is required by the Arterial Drainage Act 1945 to maintain completed schemes in effective repair and condition.
I have provided details on the amount of channels, embankments, bridges and other structures which are maintained and where the service operates, in terms of regional offices. The annual expenditure on scheme maintenance is approximately €19 million, of which some two thirds represents labour costs. In addition to engineering staff, the operations are carried out by a trained direct workforce numbering approximately 300, with seasonal staff raising peak numbers to some 360. The work is generally carried out using the OPW's own plant, but plant is also hired for some operations such as the embankment refurbishment programme in County Kerry. As stated earlier, OPW plant and personnel are put at the disposal of local authorities.
Channel maintenance operations normally involve removing the build-up of water, silt and associated vegetation from the bed of the channel by suitably rigged hydraulic excavators. The material removed in the maintenance operations is normal spread along the bank or on top of existing spoil heaps, where present. The OPW liaises with the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government where maintenance operations impinge on environmentally sensitive areas, something which can happen quite frequently. A balance needs to be struck. The OPW has an environment section which seeks to ensure thorough research and monitoring operations are as environmentally compatible as possible.
While very few of the locations which have been significantly affected by recent flooding are in areas drained by OPW-maintained channels, the maintenance programme for 2010 will be reviewed in light of recent flooding events.
We will now hear an opening statement from the Department of Social and Family Affairs, after which we will have questions.
Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh
My presentation has been circulated to the committee, so I will go through it quickly. I wish to cover the scale of the challenge we are facing, outline the scheme to which the Minister of State referred, discuss some actions which have been taken to date and what the next immediate steps are for us. The third page of my presentation lists the main areas affected, in terms of payments we have made up to last Friday. As we all know, there has been flooding in Kildare and other places since then so the same scheme is operating in such places.
The main purpose of my appearance before the committee today is to discuss the humanitarian aid scheme. Its purpose is to provide financial assistance to people affected by a flood where the normal safety nets are inadequate or hardship is being suffered on an extensive basis. It is particularly intended to assist those households which are not in a position to meet costs for essential needs in the period immediately following the flooding.
The Government considers whether to designate an event as requiring humanitarian aid, which it did. We then establish an oversight committee to ensure consistency and effectiveness above all and financial assistance is delivered on the ground by community welfare officers. The losses covered include essential items such as bedding, household appliances, etc., damage to an owner-occupied home and the cost of medical treatment and supplies where medical cover is not already in place or, as we have seen in recent days, where people have had to leave their homes without their medication. The kind of losses not covered include inessential or luxury items, damages to business or other commercial or industrial loss, damage to social or privately rented accommodation, that is a matter for the landlords of that accommodation, losses from risks that could have been underwritten with an insurance policy. This humanitarian aid scheme is not an alternative to having insurance where that is available. We are aware that there are areas which insurance companies will not cover. Another example of a loss not covered is disruption due to mental suffering or distress, the point being that humanitarian aid is just that, it is not compensation.
For immediate needs, affected people apply in person to their local community welfare officers, who have been out visiting people in the affected areas and have opened clinics on Saturday, Sunday and other days. For long-term needs, for example, to repair damage to a home to make it habitable again, people are asked to complete a form to consent to reasonable inquiries about insurance status and loss, etc. That form is on the Department's website today.
The decision-making process involves community welfare officers making payments on the spot. Urgent needs payments are not subject to any means test. The community welfare officer will provide immediate money if that is what is required to meet an immediate need. In the first week of this event, up to last Friday, over 400 such payments were issued in the affected areas to a value of €425,000. The long-term needs are the big end of this relief. The superintendent community welfare officers will decide claims in respect of those long-term needs, particularly making good damage to homes which can run to tens of thousands of euro.
It will take several weeks and in some cases months before these costs are apparent. People have suffered the loss in terms of the damage but have not incurred the costs and will not know what those costs are until the waters recede, dehumidifiers are put in and assessments made of what needs to be done and the cost of that.
Where a person is not satisfied with the outcome of his or her application for assistance with long-term costs, he or she may have that decision reviewed by somebody independent of the process.
For prioritisation, the level of payment to individual households will depend on the severity of the damage, relative to the household's ability to meet those costs. That will vary from case to case. This is where the means test comes into play. A relatively small loss will be a big matter for people on very low incomes, a bigger loss may be more manageable for people on higher incomes.
The "ability to pay" test, which is probably a better description than a means test, will be structured so that people on average disposable incomes are eligible. This meets the point the Minister made when he said we would clarify this matter this afternoon. We can discuss that further later if the committee wishes. The precise mechanics of how we will achieve this and the numbers involved is the subject of a meeting we will hold on Friday. In addition to considering the ability to pay, other factors will be considered. If a person is homeless he or she needs immediate action almost regardless of means, the composition of the family, whether that includes young children or elderly people, etc.
The emergency response co-ordination committee met last Friday and has met every day since. The bulk of what we do does not pertain to the work of that committee. Community welfare officers were out on that Friday in the affected areas in Carrick-on-Shannon, Clonmel, Cork and Ennis. They did not have to be sent out, they went out. They were there on Saturday, Sunday and Tuesday when industrial action was being taken elsewhere.
Community welfare officers are visiting people in their temporary accommodation and holding clinics in hotels so that they can be accessible to those affected. The remaining major actions taken to date are the Government decision last Tuesday. Last Thursday we held the first meeting of our steering group set up on foot of the Government decision and from today the information on the scheme is available on our website.
The major next steps will be a second meeting of that steering group next Friday focussing on the income test. We will also meet the Insurance Federation of Ireland to discuss how best to co-ordinate our efforts and we hope to learn from its experience of dealing with such issues. We envisage that we will process claims and issue payments over months starting from two weeks' time. Most of the €10 million that the Minister mentioned will be spent and be issued next year rather than this month because the costs that will drive that spending will not be incurred until next year. We will go back to the Government in January and will no doubt be asked to give updates after that too.
I thank Mr. Ó Raghallaigh.
I would first like to thank the Chairman for organising this meeting with the relevant agencies and Departments that have been involved in what has been an horrific time for so many people throughout the country. I thank the officials of the Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Social and Family Affairs, the Office of Public Work and all the front-line services, the community leaders and people who have helped out in this ordeal. It has been a major ordeal for many people. We can only wonder at how they are coping with these events which are so horrendous.
Can the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Mansergh, tell us whether the Government made any assessment at its Cabinet meeting today of the level of funding requirements or additional finance needed on top of the initial allocation for humanitarian and financial assistance? People need assistance as quickly as possible, without bureaucracy. I am worried that the means-testing arrangement would be rather crude. I ask the Department to make it as simple and generous as possible, notwithstanding the times we are in, to ensure that people who, through no fault of their own, happen to live in places subject to the highest level of rainfall ever get help. How quickly can assistance be given once it is approved?
I hope the Minister will expedite the early warning system tender for future events. We must learn from this experience. The minor works scheme was a good one. Small sums of money in various flooded areas could go a long way. Will the Department set up a system whereby the local authorities could submit a list of the areas worst affected? I hope that, as far as it can within its capital budget, it will make additional funds available in 2010 for that purpose. It is amazing how much the minor works scheme can cover. I welcome the fact that such a scheme exists but the Department could be more generous than it has been in recent years in respect of redirecting money towards that scheme. The drainage work that has been carried out on streams and rivers has been effective but unfortunately it has not happened often in the past few years. Perhaps the Department might review that and the Minister of State could let us know how that might help in future.
I concur with Deputy Hogan and thank the Chairman for facilitating this meeting. Like other Deputies who witnessed floods in their constituencies, I commend the local authorities and services and other participating partners that were stretched to the limits in recent weeks. It is testament to their work that people maintained their tempers during a very frustrating time.
In the presentation it was stated that humanitarian aid is not an alternative to insurance in cases where insurance was available on a reasonable basis but not taken out. Does that mean that in situations where insurance was far too expensive that there might be an option for those households and businesses to avail of Government support? That comment left the door open for that.
The Pitt review published in Britain after the 2007 floods was a wake up call. To what extent has this been a wake up call for us? Flood risk is here to stay. In Cork city, the flood risk management plan was based on a tidal situation where, if we had a south-easterly storm in Cork, with heavy rainfall and a high tide, the eastern side of the city would be flooded. Last week the western side of the city was flooded. There is a partnership between the local authorities, the OPW and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Will they co-operate in an investigation of the provisions that are in place? This was mentioned in the Dáil debate on Tuesday by a Minister of State but I suspect he was speaking off the cuff. Will there be an investigation, given the costs of the damage have yet to be estimated? The figure will eventually amount to hundreds of millions of euro. Ultimately, therefore, there must be an investigation. That is not to criticise the plans that were in place. Surely there were aspects of the plans, however, that did not stand up to scrutiny.
The use of heavy volume pumps was a major recommendation of the Pitt review in 2007. SIPTU representatives from the Fire Service contacted the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government about acquiring these pumps but his response to the firemen was that they could be acquired from the OPW or in some instances from Northern Ireland. Does the Department have heavy volume pumps that can move massive volumes of water for distances of up to 40 kilometres? These are part of the flood defence measures put in place in Britain following the floods there. Is there a need to acquire more of these pumps?
I welcome the Minister of State and apologise that I could not be with him this morning. He has seen the devastation in my constituency at first hand.
The Minister of State listed the areas where aerial surveys have been carried out. Such surveys should be carried out in County Roscommon and in County Leitrim. Both counties have been badly affected and community welfare officers have visited. I do not want to be awkward but in the past a humanitarian fund was made available in Limerick and the people to the north who were flooded were ignored. I want to ensure there is no geographic restriction placed on the funds.
Mr. Ó Raghallaigh made the point that the forms are available from the CWOs but they were not available at 2 p.m. They still did not have the application forms when I contacted them at that time even though people are looking for them. It is important that we clarify this issue and that the forms are made available. I know CWOs have been in direct contact with Sligo but have still not been furnished with those application forms.
The €2 million for the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food that was mentioned must also deal with accommodation. The Minister of State has seen entire farms that have been flooded, with sheds destroyed, and that fund must cover rental accommodation.
What funding will be made available to local authorities immediately? In my constituency, in excess of €3 million has been already spent by local authorities and they will have to spend between €1 million and €2 million between now and Christmas to secure roads and embankments. There is a need for emergency funding for local authorities. What mechanism will be used to provide that?
There has been no indication if there will be a relocation fund. I know of one householder who was flooded with two feet of water south of Athlone. That person will not be able to go back into that house under any circumstances. There is not much point in the Department of Social and Family Affairs processing applications through the CWOs and giving people money to repaint their houses and replace their furniture when the house will be flooded again. When will a decision on a relocation fund be made?
There is a fund for the maintenance of waterways and the OPW has a fund for its own arterial drainage programme. As we know, however, there has not been any maintenance on the Shannon since independence. The one bit of work the OPW tried to do after the announcement in February 2007 was stopped by officials in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. We must be serious about the maintenance of the Shannon and other waterways in the midlands region.
We had a group in place to monitor what was happening. Why then were sandbags not available to local authorities? Why was there no proper signage to close roads? There should also be a public information campaign to advise people how to travel through water because many vehicles stalled in floods. In some places, when local authorities tried to close roads, people lifted the signs, drove straight into the floods and ended up being marooned and causing immense damage to property. That issue must be addressed in the context of the rules of the road.
I thank the Minister of State and the officials for attending. The Minister of State referred to the main areas affected up to Friday, 27 November. I have no doubt that when he talks about Corbally, he includes Shannon Banks. There has been flooding in Limerick in areas such as Castleconnell, Montpelier, Plassey and Mountshannon Road. There has also been flooding in O'Briensbridge in County Clare. The Minister of State has stated the OPW will shortly go to tender in seeking consultants to carry out a strategic review to assess the operational and structure costs, a matter to which Deputy Hogan referred. Can the review be brought forward? In the interim what flood management risk plan will be put in place? On a practical level, flooding in Shannon Banks is due to high tides, whereas in Castleconnell, Montpelier and the University of Limerick it is primarily due to water being released at the ESB power station at Parteen weir which is closer to Killaloe. In the interim the ESB, the OPW, the local authorities — Clare County Council, Limerick City Council and Limerick County Council — the Army and Civil Defence have done fantastic work.
There are two elements to this issue — the emergency plan and an independent investigation. The Minister of State knows all the areas at risk. The mobile phone numbers of all the people living in these areas should be noted. The ESB should give an update on an hourly basis rather than at the beginning and end of each day. Even if it was to state there was no change, that would be of help. There are people who have bought houses at enormous cost. I met a man who had built the nearest thing to Fort Knox around his house and said that was all he had. Everything possible must be done to ensure those affected can keep their homes. This comes down to having an early warning system. What interim measures will the OPW and the councils take in that regard? The Minister of State is aware of the vulnerable areas in which structural work is required. In addition, there should be early warnings.
The Minister for Finance and the Minister of State have been charged by the Government with the task of making an application to the European Union for flood relief. How did the communications proceed? What funding will be available? When will it come on stream and what are the purposes for which it can be used?
With regard to the Department of Social and Family Affairs, I welcome the measures proposed. There are many insured persons who may have to wait for months for payment. At meetings with the Insurance Federation of Ireland officials should discuss in a practical sense whether it is possible for the Department of Social and Family Affairs to advance funding which people will receive by way of an insurance claim to the insurance company? I can see a situation where the people concerned might have to wait for months before receiving payment and might have to live in atrocious conditions or not be able to return to their homes.
When the strategic review is being conducted, it is critical that the OPW and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government are charged with putting in place a system to provide early warnings to ensure which have been not flooded are not flooded again. Much of the flooding in counties Limerick and Clare has been due to the release of water at Ardnacrusha and Parteen weirs. Insurance companies will have to reinsure the people who have been affected, as there is a risk that there are people through no fault of their own who will not be able to take out insurance. There is an opportunity to have in place a system that will work from the point of view of providings early warnings.
The sum of €11 million being provided is grossly inadequate. However, I look forward to hearing what the Minister of State has to say in respect of the application to the European Union.
Much of what I wanted to say has been covered. It is essential there be a rolling review of the circumstances that led to the flooding, as well as continuous updates on the progress made in the various areas devastated by it. I am disappointed the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is not represented because it would be interesting to hear it outline the emergency response and whether it has been effective. We need to hear about this and the co-ordination measures taken by the various State agencies and local authorities involved.
I wish to pick up on the points made by Deputy Naughten on the immediate need for resources for local authorities. Is it the intention of the Government to restore funds to local authorities to maintain rivers and channels in the light of current circumstances? I understand such funding was stopped in 2007. Will the Department review the guidelines for the maintenance of rivers and SACs? Obviously, the OPW has engaged in proactive work in this regard but has been stymied by interventions by the National Parks and Wildlife Service. That issue will have to be addressed because we are getting tied up in bureaucratic knots.
Local authorities should be required to maintain electronic databases in respect of the maintenance of all river systems, streams, inlets and gullies because the system in place is ad hoc , as a result of which local authority gangs maintain gullies but the water has nowhere to go because of blockages. In the roads network we have a national asset but it needs to be maintained. In the light of current circumstances, we should have a basic electronic database in respect of the systematic maintenance of watercourses, streams, gullies and inlets. While much of the flooding could not have been avoided due to heavy rainfall, much of the damage to the road network could have been if there were proper electronic databases in place to ensure maintenance works were carried out.
I support calls for the provision of extra humanitarian aid, where necessary. Obviously, there is not a bottomless pit but, where possible, funding should be made available in the areas most affected by the flooding. I ask a general question on humanitarian aid regarding the co-ordination of charitable donations. Enormous work is being done by the Irish Red Cross, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and other such organisations. Has any effort been made by the State to channel charitable donations to these agencies because many people in areas not affected by flooding want to assist? Such a signal from the State would certainly help the areas most affected in that regard.
I thank the Chairman and the committee for giving me the opportunity to speak. I have played various roles during my time in public life but this is the first time I have had an opportunity to attend the Joint Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I have come because of my huge interest in the issue of flooding. Two main points occur to me. First, there is a need for the Government to provide support and relief for the families and individuals who have suffered extreme distress in their homes and businesses. Second, there is a need to provide hope for the future to ensure such misfortune will never again be visited on the same people or others, their friends and neighbours, in the worst affected areas.
In regard to the provision of support and relief, I appreciate and acknowledge the huge efforts made on the ground, by local authorities, people living in the communities affected, including neighbours who helped in any way they could. However, it is time we stood back and looked at the level of support being made available at national level. I am looking at the humanitarian aid figures. The focus is on humanitarian aid and, initially, that should be the focus. Up to last Friday the total amount paid at national level for relief of the distress suffered was €125,000. That was the amount allocated from the national purse towards such relief. I have seen my neighbours in Bandon and people throughout west Cork express their distress in television broadcasts. Is that allocation not merely buttons compared with what is required? I know the state of Exchequer funds and the difficulties we face. Should a better effort not be made by way of a national response to the extreme distress suffered? The average value of a single house, allowing for the reduction in house prices, is about €250,000. Therefore, half the value of one home is what has been made available so far by way of the €125,000 in relief for the distress suffered by people not only in my area but in many other areas throughout the country. Could we not do better than that?
Various suggestions have been made by those around the table. I have seen the distress suffered. I have called to many homes and the damage suffered is appalling. It is as if there has been an invasion of burglars and people's goods and personal effects are now gone. It is awful for those people. Many businesses have been virtually wiped out. They had their Christmas stock on their premises but virtually none of it had been sold and many of them had either no insurance or were underinsured. Such losses require a special case and a better effort from the national purse to provide relief for such distress. That is my main plea not only for people affected in Bandon, which everyone has seen reported in television coverage, but for the people affected in Skibbereen and Clonakilty, of which my colleague, Deputy Christy O'Sullivan, is also aware. Great damage was suffered in west Cork and we also recognise the damage that occurred in my other parts of the country which is still happening.
In terms of hope for the future, is it possible to bring forward the plans that were examined? The Minister of State mentioned in his statement the 2004 report of the flood management review group. It stated that, as a matter of policy, efforts would be made and a policy established to minimise the national level of exposure through identification and management of existing and, particularly, potential future flood risks in an integrated, proactive and river basin-based manner. Can we not be more proactive in that regard? Could such schemes not be progressed now? I refer to schemes such as the new sewerage scheme for Bandon which is ready to go to tender. If put in place this scheme would improve the position in terms of reducing flood risk. The flood relief schemes mentioned by the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, seem to have worked in this respect. I commend the scheme in Mallow, which worked well, and the scheme in Clonmel, which worked——
Partially.
Yes, partially, but such schemes do work. Can more of those schemes be brought forward for the areas that have been or are likely to be affected by flooding? That is my main plea. I add my voice to those who want a better effort at national level to deal with the flooding which has arisen and, unfortunately, is likely to arise to an even greater degree in the future.
Last year the OPW commissioned Goodbody Economic Consultants to complete a value for money report on the flood relief scheme. One of the findings of that report, as illustrated in a table, is that there has been consistent underspending by Government on flood relief works each year since 1996; this period spans the term of more than one Government. I tabled a parliamentary question on this matter last week and I note from the reply that such underspending in this area has continued. The Government sets aside a certain amount for flood relief works each year in the Estimates, but in each year since 1996 it has not spent the allocation provided. For example, in 2008, €50 million was provided in the Estimates for flood relief works, but only in the region of €25 million was spent. Initially, €50 million was provided in this year's budget for such works, but that allocation was reduced to €43 million in the supplementary budget and to date only €25 million has been spent. The reply to the parliamentary question I tabled indicates it is estimated that €38 million will have been spent by the end of the this year.
The underspending in this area was also identified in the flood policy review group report, which was published and adopted by the then Government in 2004. It selected the year 2003, during which €19 million was spent on such works, and predicted that if the Government continued that rate of spending in this area, it would take a considerable number of years to get through the current flood relief works programme, which requires approximately €440 million to be spent over a ten to 15-year period, which would involve spending approximately €30 million a year. The Government has not come anywhere near to spending that amount in any year but while it will spend that amount this year, it is still making up for lost time.
The Goodbody report found that one of the main reasons for Government underspending on flood relief works was manpower deficiencies. I note from replies to parliamentary questions I tabled that there are 4,000 fewer staff in local authorities this year than there were last year. For example, in Cork county, which was fairly badly hit by the flooding, there are 500 fewer staff in Cork County Council this year than was the case this time last year. Many of those staff were temporary and would have worked outdoors cleaning drains and dealing with the alleviation of flooding. Is the Minister of State doing anything to ensure that the local authorities that have to clean up after the floods have the necessary manpower to do that work? Is more manpower being provided to ensure that flood relief work schemes are put in place on a timely basis to progress such work at a rate that has not happened up to now?
Humanitarian aid for those affected by the floods was provided by the Red Cross in the past. The report of the flood policy review group in 2004 recommended that community welfare officers should handle the delivery of such aid in the future, but I doubt the wisdom of that recommendation. Community welfare officers operate within the social welfare system. They usually deal with applicants for benefits under means-tested schemes. They had more discretion in allocation of benefits than they do now. People might feel there is a stigma attached to contacting them and people who have never approached a community welfare officer may be reluctant to do so now. Would it not be better to hand over that job to the Red Cross, which would have more discretion in the handing out of money. The awards made would not be means tested but would be based on loss suffered by people as a result of the flooding. Has the Minister of State considered that idea? I am not referring to compensation but to dealing with people's initial loss from the floods.
I will call Senator Buttimer next. Does any other member wish to speak on this?
I indicated I wished to speak some time ago.
I did not see the Deputy offering. I will call him after Senator Buttimer.
Despite the fact that immense good work is being done, we are talking about people who have suffered. As Deputy Hogan said, it is imperative that we demystify the social welfare jargon in terms of the community welfare officers and that we allow people to access the aid as quickly and easily as possible. This is not about replacing buildings or furniture but about people who have lost their homes and a sense of who they are. If one was to go into any home in Cork city this week that has been flooded in the past ten days, one would feel that emotion. I challenge the officials to go down there and meet the people. It is imperative that the forms to be completed are not made bureaucratic.
I am disappointed that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, is not present. It is extraordinary that in the 21st century, in a so-called modern country, people in a city such as Cork have been deprived of access to safe running water. What are the plans of the Office of Public Works and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to have an interconnector between city and county areas to provide safe water? Also, can a mechanism be put in place, whereby water can be supplied in the case of emergency?
There has been a communications deficit in Cork city between the local authorities and the ESB. I am not seeking to blame anybody but will the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, take up Deputy Hogan's point? Is the Department committed to having an independent investigation of events in Cork city, in particular? This morning, before I travelled to Dublin, I spoke to a family who have been living in their family home for two generations. Nobody from the county council, the city council or the ESB has spoken to them. The only public representatives they have met are Councillor Derry Canty and me. Why is that the case?
The Minister of State referred to minor works schemes. However, there was no reference to the quay walls in Cork city. Cork City Council had to bring in 3,000 tonnes of rock and boulders to support the quay walls in Grenville Place in the Mardyke. The Minister of State made no reference to this, although both Deputy Ciarán Lynch and I have been to Cork City Council where Mr. Jim Corr has been asking the Government to fund the enhancement of the quay walls. That issue must be addressed. Cork City Council had 120 full-time staff dealing with the aftermath of the flooding. Will the local authorities be able to recoup in full the money they have expended?
My final question relates to the Iniscarra dam. We are told the output of electricity to the national grid is minimal. Is there a need for a separate agency independent of the ESB to oversee management of the dam?
Perhaps the one positive aspect of the disaster that has befallen us in the past fortnight is the way communities and local services have worked together. They have done Trojan work, which must be acknowledged by everybody. We cannot praise them enough.
For my own part, in west Cork I stood in the home of an old person in one instance and that of a young couple in another. What does one say to them? They will not know where to begin when the flood waters have abated and they see what they have left. While I appreciate the humanitarian aid that has been offered, I have a problem with the speed with which it is being given. Perhaps something could be done about this. People are so shocked by the situation in which they find themselves that they are slow to come forward. They do not know the right way to proceed, as instructions are only now being given as to where aid can be accessed. I heard this morning that some community welfare officers still did not have forms. If that is so, it is not good enough.
The other concern is that it is quite possible something like this could happen again in a couple of months. Who can say it will not? That is the bigger picture. What measures are being taken to put mechanisms in place to give advance warnings, at least, and to erect barriers or defences against flood waters? Has the Government applied to the European Union for the solidarity funding that is available? There is no reason we cannot avail of it. I understand 21 countries have availed of it. There might be certain criteria regarding the scale of disasters, but we do not know the full scale of the disaster that occurred here in the past fortnight. When will there be an assessment of roads, bridges and houses to provide an overall picture? When will we arrive at a figure for the cost?
There have been several reports on different towns, including towns in my constituency such Bandon, Skibbereen and Clonakilty. I am concerned that these reports and studies are now irrelevant because infrastructural and housing development has taken place. In many cases we might have to start again from scratch. I attended a meeting in Skibbereen last night. The older people who attended pointed out to me that on this occasion the flood waters had come from a completely different direction. Before this, one could have predicted from where they might have come, but that has changed because development has taken place; it is a different scene.
These are the issues about which I have serious concerns. For God's sake, get the humanitarian aid to people as soon as possible, as they are in dire straits. Some proprietors of small businesses were in contact with me this morning to tell me they did not know whether they would have to close down their businesses. In some cases there are 24 or 25 jobs involved. They would not be small businesses in west Cork but that is their situation. Until now they have had no contact with anyone who could point them in the right direction. The Minister of State mentioned that the enterprise boards will help, which might be a beginning. The businesses in question are in urgent need of assistance, as there have been huge losses in some areas.
I concur with most of the comments made. I am delighted officials have come from various Departments to discuss the issue. It is only in the last few days that people in my constituency in Kildare have been affected by the disaster. There has been a great deal of damage in Sallins. It was foreseen by some tenants that there was a possibility of this occurring, but no action was taken. The flooding is mainly due to bad and inadequate drainage. It is imperative that the Government and local authorities require the drainage boards to fulfil their remit of ensuring the drains for which they have responsibility are maintained in a satisfactory way. There is little point in cleaning a drain today and leaving it for ten years before returning to it. Most drains are overgrown with weeds and scrub. If only one tree falls into a stream it can cause severe back-flooding from that point. In some areas, Waterways Ireland, which controls a large number of waterways both North and South, has kept drains at a higher level to protect water supplies for canals. That has caused serious flooding in parts of my constituency of Kildare North.
We also need to examine the effect motorways are having on the natural flow of water through the countryside. It comes back down to communities, including farmers and private home owners. To get planning permission to build houses, some people filled in ditches alongside roads, which causes flooding. These are planning issues which will have to be enforced and watercourses must be drained satisfactorily.
On television last night, the IFA president criticised the flood defences that are being provided. He referred to the local knowledge of the farming community which could be used to provide proper drainage. We must ensure that local drainage schemes are maintained to the satisfaction of all. The remit of drainage boards for the Barrow, Boyne and Shannon is important. We must cross county boundaries in dealing with this problem. Some county councils are good at maintaining drainage, but others are not. The main problems have been caused by the Shannon and the Liffey, so we should re-examine these arterial rivers to ensure they are drained to the proper standards. We have to accept that the effects of climate change are becoming evident, so we must take the necessary measures to cope with them.
I commend the good work community welfare officers have been doing, together with other essential workers. We should highlight the availability of community assistance. There are good ways of advertising what we are doing, but some people are still unaware of the community and social welfare assistance that is available. We owe it to them to ensure they are aware of such assistance in time of need.
I will now ask the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, to respond to the comments that have been made.
I must leave at 3.45 p.m. to attend the Seanad.
We have another item on our agenda.
The Minister of State can just leave the money.
I thank all members of the committee for their constructive thoughts and suggestions. Needless to say, I do not have instant answers to all the questions that have been asked, although I do have answers to some of them. Some of the questions extend to the remit of other Ministers — not only the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government but also the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and others. Subject to that caveat, I will address the questions as best I can.
Deputy Hogan asked whether there had been any Cabinet decision on an increase in the initial €10 million. The answer is "No", but I would emphasise what the Taoiseach has said, that it is an issue but has probably not yet got to the stage where it would have to be increased.
There is an early-warning system in some parts of the country, but not in others. For example, on the River Suir, the people of Clonmel get six to eight hours' notice that there will be a flood as a result of gauges upstream. It is very accurate even in terms of being able to predict the houses that will be affected at particular levels. That system does not exist around the country, however. Other agencies are involved, including the ESB in certain parts of the country. That will obviously have to be looked at and it also raises questions of resources. I agree that an improved warning system across the country should be examined, partly because where it exists it works very well.
As set out in the statement, the minor flood works scheme is in action. We will have to see what the demand is next year for that and how available funds can be allocated between that and major schemes, which are very effective.
Provided we do not exaggerate the effect, I have some sympathy with the importance of maintaining drainage systems to a better standard than we have been doing in the past. The OPW does its duty concerning the drainage systems for which it is responsible, but even though those are extensive they do not cover the whole country. It is not entirely a matter for public authorities. As a landowner, I think — perhaps in the context of a revised REP scheme — that landowners should have an obligation to maintain the water and drainage systems on their land. Obviously, if they are beside a river they cannot be responsible for that.
Does the Minister of State plan to reintroduce REPS?
The Minister is still contemplating a scheme.
He is lost in thought.
Deputy Ciarán Lynch referred to the issue of insurance. I came across a furniture business in Clonmel, which is still not fully covered by the schemes that have been undertaken there. Before the last flood but one, he had an insurance bill in single figures. After the flood they wanted to put up his insurance to €32,000. That is an illustration of what the Deputy has been saying. The county enterprise board will be involved in discussions on that matter, but that factor must be taken into account in any such discussions.
The CFRAM study will take into account flood risks north, south, east and west. It must also take into account the experience of recent weeks, whether by amending that work that was done up to then or as a subsequent addendum. This is being conducted by consultants and constitutes an independent investigation. All the factors that have come into play in the Lee catchment basin area in Cork must and will be taken into account.
I was asked about pumps. The OPW has purchased six high-volume, low-pressure pumps, which have all been used in various areas in recent days.
On the earlier point, I indicated that risk assessment and emergency planning management is a roll-over process. It is continually being upgraded and is to be investigated. I am sure that arising from recent events, adaptions and changes will be made. The Minister of State spoke for the Government during last week's emergency debate in the Dáil. It was mentioned then that there was a call for an investigation of floods in Cork city. Will there be such an investigation? Has it been discussed by the Cabinet and, if so, will it take place?
As regards the OPW investigation, the CFRAM study was due to be launched some time this coming month. I am not sure whether it will be delayed due to what has happened. We have not fully decided that.
As to any broader investigation, I am sure people have heard that call. It remains for consideration whether that would be regarded as being sufficiently covered by the plan we are producing which is about to come out or whether something else is required. I cannot make a Government decision for the Deputy on the spot.
On rental accommodation, the agricultural scheme is fodder-related. I would have thought rental accommodation would come more under the community welfare office or the humanitarian aid assistance.
This is for animals.
I am sorry, I thought the Deputy meant for the farmers.
I would like to see the community welfare offices of the Department of Social and Family Affairs doing that, but not——
I misunderstood.
There is a specific problem with accommodation for animals, especially in the Shannon basin.
I am sure the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who was out and about in some of the flooded areas yesterday, will look into it.
Will the Minister of State bring it to his attention?
I will bring it to his attention.
The other day I was out on an Army truck south of Athlone and also west of Athlone in Clonagh, in Roscommon. While I am talking about Roscommon, I was in south Roscommon that day and, obviously, on the fringes of north Roscommon which go into Carrick-on-Shannon today. I found great satisfaction expressed in south Roscommon, despite the awful situation, with the operation of the emergency services. However, there is a problem where the boundaries run so close, where de facto one is talking about areas that are part of Carrick-on-Shannon, and there was considerably less satisfaction expressed in the north of the county today. I am confirming in a sense what Deputy Naughten has been saying.
Relocation is inevitable in the case of some homes. People have said — and some of them will say it in a few weeks' time when the floods have gone — that it is not possible to go on living in particular areas. That is something that will have to be addressed.
Can the Minister ensure that such is clarified fairly quickly? We do not want a situation where the CWOs are paying out money from a hardship fund for people where really they should be relocated.
Deputy Naughten will appreciate that is not my portfolio but I accept his point.
There needs to be co-ordination. There is not much point wall-papering and painting a house and putting down new floors, and then finding out in six months' time that it is flooded again.
If a person is determined to move from a house, he or she will hardly apply to have it repainted or refurbished.
That is the only mechanism available to them at present.
The OPW has powers, under the 1996 Act mentioned in the Dáil the other day, to rehouse people. It is within the Minister of State's brief.
There were decisions taken in 2004 or 2005 that relocated responsibility for humanitarian assistance. We only relocate people as a result of defence works or as a result of flooding. One case of which I can think in Clonmel is where we must relocate somebody because the course of works has increased the damage to the House. It is in quite a narrow context.
Who then is in charge of relocation?
I presume that is primarily the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
The housing authority.
I need to keep moving on the questions. Deputy O'Donnell asked a variation of the question on advance notice of risk. There will need to be urgent discussions between local authorities, the ESB — where it is relevant — the OPW and any other agency involved to give better advance notice.
As the Minister of State will be well aware, the issue in Limerick and Clare is not over yet. There will be high tides on Thursday. It is critical.
I am well aware of that. Has Deputy O'Donnell had any update today?
Thankfully, the levels have dropped overnight in Lough Derg. The high water was caused by enormous rainfall. The irony is that we are getting some respite in Limerick and Clare because the weather has been relatively good. We are getting the benefit of good weather now but we cannot become dependent on a good outcome because the weather happens to be good. It is critical that we get proper defence systems and early warning systems in place regardless of the weather. That is the message one must take away.
Will the Minister of State deal with the funding application in Europe, which is critical?
I have no further update on the funding application to Europe, but there is an ECOFIN Council today.
Will the Minister for Finance raise the matter there?
The Minister for Finance is there. I have not had communication with him today.
With due respect, the Cabinet commissioned the Minister for Finance to go to Europe to ask about this funding. We have a problem with funding in Ireland. As the Minister of State will be aware, the problem is that people are losing their homes and there is a need.
He is in Europe and since he has undertaken to raise the matter, I am sure he is raising it.
On charitable donations, in response to Senator Coffey, there are several charities accepting donations. No doubt they will decide how those are best to be applied.
As far as money that has been spent as of Friday last, I do not know whether that is under more than one budget line. Often relief of distress in practice comes, for example, from the community welfare officer system. I do not know whether my social welfare colleague will be able to enlighten us. I am sure a good deal more than that has been spent at this stage.
Does the Minister of State have any idea?
I am not responsible for the humanitarian assistance. I do not have a figure. The Deputy can ask the Department of Social and Family Affairs afterwards.
With all due respect, that is not precisely the point. It is what will be given out within a reasonably short period.
People need the support now.
The community welfare officers are giving assistance. I have not been getting any complaints from my constituents — there is a number of householders involved — about the way that system is working. I am sure assistance is being brought to people as soon as possible.
With regard to trying to see that it can never happen again, we must be realistic about this. In Cockermouth in Britain, where I gather the death toll is now six, — fortunately, we did not lose any lives here so far — one in 100 year defences were overrun by a rainfall of 12 inches in 24 hours. We must be very realistic about it. Defence works can help reduce or mitigate flood risk. On whether such defences guarantee protection for a population in any part of the country for all time from what may lie ahead of us in the future, I certainly cannot give that assurance.
With regard to bringing forward plans, we are trying to accelerate matters as much as we can. For example, in some of the defence schemes under way we are ensuring that there is no significant time gap between the completion of phase one and phases two and three.
I appreciate in certain towns — Bandon is one and Carlow would be another — there is an interaction between flood schemes and sewerage schemes. In Carlow, for example, we are operating in tandem with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. That work is due to commence next year. There have undoubtedly been delays, of which Deputy Hogan is all too well aware. However, there is comfort in the offing. Reference was made to the Bandon sewerage scheme. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Government will be obliged to prioritise schemes in areas at risk of flooding.
The Minister of State indicated that he would probably not be in a position to answer every question put to him. However, he has just replied to the one I was about to pose.
I have not yet come to deal with the Deputy's points.
I accept that but the Minister of State has answered the question I wished to put to him. Is he in a position to indicate when the Bandon drainage and sewerage scheme will commence?
I am not in a position to do so.
I would be happy if I could obtain an answer to that question. The drainage scheme to which I refer would go a long way towards alleviating flooding in Bandon. A great deal of other work could be done in conjunction with the drainage and sewerage scheme.
Deputy Christy O'Sullivan and I are obviously singing from the same hymn sheet on this matter. The Minister of State has indicated that where a scheme such as that relating to Bandon is ready to proceed, it is important that its completion assist in alleviating the risk of flooding. Will he communicate to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the fact that the Deputies who represent the area want priority to be given to this scheme, particularly in the context of the damage caused by flooding?
Yes, I will do so. The Deputy's colleague from Carlow also wants a scheme in his area to be prioritised.
Yes, but he is not in government yet. It might be another six months before that eventuality comes to pass.
On Deputy Tuffy's question, I have in my possession statistics dating back to 1996. At that time expenditure in this area was only £1.4 million. Such expenditure did not rise above €10 million until 2000 and did not exceed estimates until 2002 and 2003. It is important to note that, particularly in terms of capital funding, we no longer operate on a single-year basis. Multi-annual budgets are now the norm. The €5 million we have not spent this year will be part of the carryover into next year. With large engineering schemes, it is not always possible to ensure all moneys will be paid out in the calendar year up to the end of December rather than in the following January or February.
I am in a position to provide a concrete example in this regard. Phase 1 of the Clonmel project was supposed to have been completed this month but will not now be completed until January. However, there is a rising trend of capital expenditure and it would have been nice if the Deputy had acknowledged that this was the case. We spent €25 million in 2008, while €38 million will be spent this year. It is not normal to provide figures prior to the budget, but the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, and the Taoiseach have indicated that €50 million will be allocated for flood relief works next year.
Since I became Minister of State at the Department of Finance, I have given absolute priority to this matter. What we are doing will need to be sustained into the future. I accept that I occupy a ministerial position in the Department of Finance. However, I can see myself having ongoing discussions with the Department and my colleague, the Minister, on this matter — because, in a sense, the Office of Public Works is similar to a line Department — to ensure the effort to which I refer is sustained, particularly in view of the fact that people's needs are great.
Senator Buttimer referred to safe supplies of running water, which are vital. He will appreciate that this matter is proper to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I am glad supplies of water have been restored.
They have almost been restored.
Yes. I am well aware of the problem relating to the quay walls. In the light of the findings of the CFRAM study, the OPW will probably be involved in dealing with this matter. There is no doubt that something fundamental must be done in ameliorating the situation in the centre of Cork city.
I agree with Deputy Christy O'Sullivan. There are limitations in referring to some of the studies carried out ten to 15 years ago because the conclusions reached may be out of date as a result of developments which have taken place in the interim and which may have altered the landscape.
Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to local knowledge. A consultative process is gone through in respect of any flood defence scheme and local knowledge must be taken into account in any such process.
I join others in paying tribute to the role played by community radio stations during the flooding crisis. Regular updates on events were provided by such stations in Tipperary, which proved vital to those affected by the flooding.
Will funding be made available in carrying out research and assessing the damage done to bridges and other items of infrastructure?
A huge amount of research is being carried out in flood mapping and surveying river catchment basins. However, I believe the Deputy's question refers to practical matters such as what will be done in instances where bridges have been washed away or severely damaged. Local authorities and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government have primary responsibility in this regard. There would be a few instances in which the OPW would have responsibility.
Will it be possible to obtain EU funding for repair works in this regard?
That will probably depend on whether Ireland obtains EU aid. If we do, the answer may be yes.
Is it intended to make a wide-scale assessment of the damage done?
Absolutely.
If a case is to be made to the European Union for funding, in the first instance the damage done must be assessed. I have no doubt but that the scale of such damage is major.
I have been touring the country not because my office has a primary role but due to the fact that it has a supporting role in dealing wth the emergency. However, we will have an ongoing responsibility long after the Department of Social and Family Affairs has completed its job. We must prepare for and take whatever action is within our power in respect of the next incidence of events of this nature.
Do the officials from the Department of Social and Family Affairs have further comments to make on the matter? The committee has a further item on its agenda with which it must deal.
Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh
Deputies and Senators made four main points, the first of which relates to reforms in communications. I assure Deputy Hogan that we are aiming to keep the system as simple and straightforward as possible and to put in place what will be seen as a generous means test in respect of this matter. We are advertising on local radio stations and in local newspapers and providing contact numbers.
Deputy Jim O'Keeffe referred to the sum of €125,000 for the relief of distress. It is important to understand the bulk of the humanitarian aid will be spent on restoring people's homes and making them habitable again. There was a small flooding incident in Finglas which affected six people very badly. The payouts in that instance were approximately €30,000 to €35,000. That is the scale of the money involved. It is clear that we cannot make payments of that nature within one week of a flooding incident. It is necessary to wait until people obtain dehumidifiers, get builders in to carry out repairs, etc., before fully assessing the costs involved.
Deputy Tuffy referred to the Irish Red Cross. Whenever that organisation has been involved in dealing with matters of this nature, community welfare officers have also been involved. One of the reasons the Irish Red Cross was removed from the equation was there was unnecessary duplication. I do not accept that there is a stigma attached to people dealing with community welfare officers. As the Minister of State said, there is no indication that community welfare officers did anything other than an excellent job during the past ten days.
The final point relates to geographic areas. Perhaps I made a strategic error in listing the main areas affected because I was bound to leave out some. There is no geographic constraint on aid. We will deal with instances wherever they are. We have made payments in Roscommon and Leitrim and will make them wherever the need arises.
What about the availability of application forms for community welfare officers?
Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh
The application form was put on our website today and the forms are available to the welfare officers in that manner. They were also e-mailed to the steering group for printing off and distribution to welfare officers. I accept that community welfare officers did not find a pile of forms on their desks when they came to work this morning, but they are available.
They did not know at 2 p.m. today that the form existed.
Mr. Brian Ó Raghallaigh
It exists, but only from approximately 2 p.m. today. It is available now and they can log on to the Internet the same as everybody else and print it off.
Not that it matters now that the Minister of State has gone, but for the record he said I did not acknowledge €25 million was spent in 2008. Some €50 million was set aside in the Estimates for flood relief work. Therefore, some €25 million was unspent.
We will close this topic for now, but we will be back early in January and the committee should do a detailed assessment then on the flooding issue.
I would appreciate if the clerk would let me know when that meeting is on as I would like to be part of it.
We will be happy to do that. I am not saying we will produce a report, but we will put the issue on our agenda early in January so we can determine how the committee wants to progress the issues pertaining to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in particular.
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh and his officials for their attendance and also Mr. Ó Raghallaigh and Mr. O'Dwyer. It is good to see officials from different Departments here to discuss the nature of what happened over the past couple of weeks. I thank them for their time.