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JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT díospóireacht -
Thursday, 21 Oct 2010

Ireland-US Relations: Discussion with New York City Council

Cuirim fíorchaoin fáilte ar son an choiste seo, Comhchoiste um Fhorfheidhmiú Chomhaontú Aoine an Chéasta, roimh Chathaoirleach Chathair Nua Eabhrac, Ms Christine C. Quinn, go dtí an Teach stairiúil seo, Teach Laighean. Cuirim freisin fáilte roimh a hathair, Mr. Larry Quinn, roimh a cúntóir agus roimh na daoine eile a tháinig anseo ó Nua Eabhrac freisin. Is onóir agus pribhléid dúinn go bhfuil siad go léir anseo linn. Apologies have been received from Lady Sylvia Hermon, MP, Ms Naomi Long, MP, and Deputies Eamon Scanlon and Johnny Brady. I remind members and those in the Visitors' Gallery to ensure mobile telephones and BlackBerrys are switched off for the entire duration of the meeting as they cause interference with recording equipment. Mobile telephones should not be used for any purpose, whether text or other messages, during meetings in this House.

The first item is the minutes of the previous meeting on 30 September 2010. Do any matters arise from this? Are the minutes agreed? Agreed. The proposal made by An Teachta Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin has been seconded by Senator Keaveney. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I warmly welcome our colleagues from the Northern Ireland Assembly and MPs from Northern Ireland, the leader of the SDLP, Ms Margaret Ritchie, MP, MLA, Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA, the Northern Ireland Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, MLA, Mr. Pat Doherty, MP, MLA, and our friends from Northern Ireland. It is a particular pleasure on behalf of members, the committee and everyone associated with Leinster House to warmly welcome the Speaker of the New York City Council, a great friend of Ireland, Ms Christine Quinn. A delegation from this committee visited New York in June and had the privilege of meeting Speaker Quinn and attending part of a public hearing on the New York City Council budget. It was a prelude to how we can respond to various budgets on both parts of this island and was helpful. Before and since her election as New York City Council Speaker, Ms Christine Quinn, established herself as a steadfast friend of Ireland. For New Yorkers, she is regarded as a champion of working families and someone who has worked to make the council more responsive and transparent. I welcome her father, Mr. Larry Quinn, whose origins are in Cobh, Schull and Goleen, that beautiful part of the southern republic of Cork. He was a great host when we visited New York. We also welcome Ms Meghan Linehan, the Speaker's assistant, and the other visitors from New York, including Ms Rita O'Hare.

Speaker Quinn has a great interest in Irish affairs, particularly Irish culture and the Northern Ireland peace process. The Irish Echo newspaper named Speaker Quinn as the 2008 Irish-American of the year, underscoring her consistent ability to deal with issues, many of them complex and not given to easy resolution, and at the same time maintaining a pace of work that would leave many breathless. She has been hugely supportive of the development of an Irish arts centre in New York City and the development of our beloved Gaelic Park. I have visited that place on many occasions and, along with Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, I had the pleasure of being there in 1980. Speaker Quinn also provided council funding for a census of elderly Irish people in the New York borough of Queens. Her support of the Irish-American community is practical and consistent. I also acknowledge the visitors who came here. We are delighted they are with us.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice, or long-standing rule of the Chair, to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give this committee. If anybody is directed by the committee or its Chairman to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and continues to so do, he or she is entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of evidence given. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I understand it will not be possible for Ms Quinn to discuss US national issues and that she will confine her remarks to matters relating to New York City. I ask that my colleagues bear this mind when asking questions. It is a great privilege to welcome Ms Quinn and I ask her to address the committee.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

I thank the Chairman and members of the joint committee for giving me the opportunity to address them. I further thank the Chairman for spending time with us at New York City Hall. I will remind my colleagues that their behaviour at budget hearings has international implications. I hope that will help me in the future when they are not as focused as one may wish. It is an honour and privilege to address the committee.

I hope people here realise the significance to everyone in New York city — not just those who are Irish American — of the Good Friday Agreement and the progress that has been made since the agreement. It is an issue in which New York, its government and people, played a variety of roles in terms of pushing forward the peace process. More importantly, the progress made as a result of the agreement and the peace process in the North is inspirational to everyone in New York city and, although I am not here to speak about national issues, everyone in America.

Few places in the world that have been defined by violence and disagreement have made sustained progress in moving out of discord. Recently in New York city, a dialogue on whether a mosque should be built near the 9/11 site caused tremendous strife, upset and disagreement. Irrespective of how one regards the issue, we were unable to find a way to hold a dignified conversation about it. One newscaster noted that the only thing on which the two sides agreed was that it was hallowed ground and, as a result, they met there one afternoon to scream at each other. I raise this issue to emphasise that the progress made in the North stands in contrast to the ways in which we in New York city or elsewhere continue to get stuck because we are unable to see the bridges that can connect us and the opportunities for constructive dialogue.

The great thing about progress is that it is progress. Unfortunately, however, progress can mean that we lose our focus on the urgency of issues at hand. For Ireland and everywhere else, the tremendous economic challenges we face put other considerations on the back burner. The progressive momentum of the agreement is incredibly relevant to people in New York. It is particularly important that progress continues to be made during this period of economic distress because we do not want to send a message to the world that peaceful progress can only be made when economies are robust. In light of New York city's close psychological and economic connections with Ireland, the progress of this agreement is also critical to us and we will do all that we can to sustain progress and come up with creative ideas on economic issues to sustain the partnership between Ireland and New York. This is why we committed more than $12 million in city taxpayer money to the rehabilitation of the Irish arts centre in New York. We are committed to the arts centre and to Gaelic Park because these institutions will ensure New York remains united with this country and maintain the flow of ideas, information and creativity.

We stand at the ready to help but we also stand to be helped by Ireland. Irish companies employ approximately 80,000 workers in New York. We desperately need to keep those jobs in New York. When I last visited Belfast in November 2009, I met Steve Orr and others who are working on technological developments. We stole his CONNECT idea, which he worked on in San Diego and Belfast because, as a good Irish person, I was not about to be outdone by California and Ireland. We since created NYC high-tech connect, which is an exact copy of what is being done in the Titanic quarter in Belfast. New Yorkers can learn and benefit a great deal from our strong and ongoing relationship in these tough economic times.

I would be happy to take any easy questions from members but I will call my father for the difficult ones and will disassociate myself from any answer he gives.

Mr. Pat Doherty MP

I enjoyed meeting Ms Quinn earlier today in Iveagh House and I welcome her to the committee. To prove how popular she is here, I note that she made the front page of The Irish Times earlier this week in regard to the good work she has done for the Irish senior citizens’ centre in New York.

I note her remarks about sustaining progress. We have clearly done good work collectively on the peace process but we are constantly challenged by economic matters, particularly in view of yesterday's budget and the money that was taken from us at Westminster. The Irish Government on this side of the Border must face similar economic issues.

We are aware of the good work done by the New York City Comptroller, Mr. John Liu, but given our long history of discrimination and political oppression, issues of inequality must be addressed by economic initiatives. I acknowledge that all funds require a return but, to date, the comptroller's offices has emphasised tackling inequality and I hope that can continue. There is sometimes a tendency in the North to think only of Belfast and Derry but the extensive rural areas which are represented by my colleagues Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, Ms Margaret Ritchie, MP, and I also have suffered from inequality. It would be appreciated if the focus could move from the cities to some of the rural areas.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

With regard to the city investments overseen by Mr. Liu and his predecessor as comptroller, Mr. Thompson, and at a state level, where the New York State comptroller, Tom DiNapoli, is equally committed, I agree there is always a challenge in that pension investments have to get a certain return. However, it is important that we find ways of making progress quickly on the investment that the city pension fund promised. I am as frustrated as anyone else that we are not where we should be with the fund. This is the case for several reasons. One reason is that the promise was made and the worst thing in politics is to have made a promise and not fulfilled it. Another reason is that from my perspective as a New York city elected official, having these investments move forward in the North and having them be successful in what they create and facilitate there, as well as having them be a positive financial investment for the city, is incredibly important. This will probably be the first — for want of a better term — firm socially responsible investment the pension fund has made in a long time, perhaps in eight to ten years. If this goes well it will send a message within the city's pension fund about the power it has to cause change positively internationally and make money for the city and open up other opportunities for us to be of assistance in other parts of the world as well.

What the committee says is critical about the diversity of where the investments occur for two reasons. The committee wants to ensure that the degree to which these investments are helpful is diverse and if we are to make them effective and move as quickly as possible through the outstanding red tape, we will need more places to draw from. If we limit ourselves to Belfast and Derry, there may not be enough investment ready quickly enough. For many reasons they must be distributed that way by the city and the state funds, when they are ready.

Mr. Pat Doherty MP, MLA

Perhaps the next time Ms Quinn is over she could come to my constituency of West Tyrone. We have a beautiful Ulster-American folk park in which she would be very interested.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

That would be great. When I was here last November I was in Belfast and we want to return to the North at some point soon. It is interesting. When I was here last November to speak at the Aisling awards I could see that no matter what group of folks or constituency I was speaking to or meeting with in Belfast, everybody had the same message. They were all looking for economic opportunity. It is harder now but it is incredibly noteworthy that everybody, regardless of background and history, had that unifying message. We will take Mr. Doherty up on that invitation.

There are many speakers offering so I propose to take three together and then we will take responses to questions.

I welcome Ms Quinn, although unfortunately I was unable to travel to the US when the Chairman travelled. A colleague went but got sick along the way.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

The Deputy can come another time.

I believe they received a great welcome. Ms Quinn mentioned the obvious issue regarding disagreement over the memorial and the 9/11 issue. It is proof that these matters cause problems internationally and at least today we are at a table representing the different elements of the political scene in Northern Ireland. That is a major step forward but economic difficulties are the real problem now. The major connections we have with New York can produce benefits. I hope Ms Quinn will not just visit the rural constituencies in Northern Ireland but will come to the Border areas.

Ms Quinn can start in Donegal and work south.

She can take in Cavan and Monaghan, as we suffered equally during the Troubles, with roads spiked and towns like Clones cut off. It is good that Ms Quinn has been able to come and I hope she will come again to see more. She indicated that we can learn from each other, which is extremely important. We welcome that involvement because no matter how many books or e-mails we get, one cannot beat getting together personally and building friendships on that. I welcome the involvement with senior Irish citizens as we were involved in a major survey of what has happened to some of our senior Irish citizens in London and the rest of the UK, and we are extremely aware that some seniors, particularly men, can get into difficulties as they get older. I congratulate Ms Quinn on her involvement in the matter and I hope governments on both sides will co-operate with the findings to ensure that life is made easier for these people. Many of them had to leave these islands at a very difficult time and did not have a choice in the matter.

In County Monaghan the council has built up a tremendous relationship with parts of Canada and as a result there are many Canadians with Irish ancestors from ten generations ago returning to Ireland to find their roots. People from Ireland go to Canada and Canadians come to Ireland. Maybe we should consider better efforts in this area for the many hundreds of thousands of people who left these islands, went to New York and got great support there. Perhaps we could build better friendships and encourage younger generations to come here to see where their forefathers left from many years before. In that way we could help tourism in the North and Border regions.

Ms Margaret Ritchie MP, MLA

Ms Quinn is very welcome. I had the opportunity to meet her when she visited Belfast in December 2007 and again in New York in March 2008 and March 2009. At her invitation I took the opportunity visit some housing projects and urban regeneration work in Harlem. I saw at first hand the pepper potting and avenues which exist for social and affordable housing, and how the city deals with subsidised affordable housing. That is particularly innovative and I thank Ms Quinn for her hospitality on those occasions.

We are reaching a time where we must obtain best practice. As Mr. Doherty said, we are all facing very difficult economic challenges, no matter what part of this island we live on. We are looking for examples of how other areas and countries have dealt with their economic downturn so that we can put in place best practice and ensure we can mitigate the influence of the downturn on the people we represent. We will look to consider how New York City Council acted, the measures it put in place and the outcomes or results of such measures.

If the rest of the members have put in their tuppence-worth for their respective areas, I would declare that I am from north of the North. That can be very confusing in the wrong company as they keep calling me a southerner. I cannot understand how that is worked out. I have no connections to Cobh, other than that my brother and his family live there. It is definitely not a heritage link but it is strong nonetheless.

I welcome the work done in the arts as I am a musician. Often arts and sports are taken for granted, although there is not enough work done in two respects. Either sports or arts can be a tool for reconciliation, although they can also be a weapon for perpetuating conflict. Sometimes we do not explore the fact that they can be one or the other before looking to maximise the more positive aspects.

I acknowledge that we may not have worked across parties as much as we always wanted to. We want to see more representation. One of the greatest moments in time that I found in my own life — I had to convince myself that it happened — occurred in October and November last year in Belfast, when a team from the New York Police Department played teams from the Garda, the London Metropolitan Police Service and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, in a Gaelic football tournament. To be there with a Unionist minister for sport and UTV, with everybody happy to be witnessed alongside each other, was a different experience, although nothing is ideal. It is a pity that the captain of the PSNI team was subsequently blown up and is fighting to get back to some form of normality. He continues to make great strides.

We are always talking about what America can do for us. I acknowledge that America has done much for us over the years, and no place more than New York, where many from my area have gone. I draw Ms Quinn's attention to a fellow county man of mine, Mr. Paul McCormack, who was too short to be accepted into the Garda Síochána but went to the US and joined the New York Police Department. He is only 42 now but he has worked for 20 years and is retired. He served in Manhattan — part of Ms Quinn's constituency — at different times, and as commanding officer at Fort Apache in the Bronx.

Mr. McCormack is working with me on an interesting project. His wife is an Irish-born photographic journalist and, during the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, he was able to get her on-site at the scene of the attacks, where she took between 2,000 and 3,000 photographs, which have never been seen. These are being displayed along with audio recordings from the emergency services and some artefacts from the day. We are working with the US Ambassador to Ireland and others to put on an impressive show of solidarity on the tenth anniversary of the attacks next September. We hope to take it back to New York and to places such as Omagh, which has experienced tragedy, as an educational project to help people see and learn from the horror of terrorism. I have given a copy of this project to Ms Quinn to make her aware of it and to demonstrate our empathy with New Yorkers. We know that next year will be particularly difficult because it is the tenth anniversary, but many of the families have become involved in this project, and we hope Ms Quinn can endorse it.

Like many others, I have participated in the St. Patrick's Day parade on Fifth Avenue, and I remember Fiona's in Yonkers — I do not know if it has changed hands since — where we had a very good time. As I intend to run the Dublin marathon with the Oireachtas team this year, I ask Ms Quinn whether there is any chance of getting a place in the New York marathon some other time.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

The New York marathon is not a problem. Let us know if people want to run in that. I will not participate but I will be happy to wave to them as they run by.

To some degree, all three people who spoke expressed gratitude or recognition of what New York has done for Ireland. I reaffirm how grateful we are to Ireland, from a New York perspective, for all it has done for us. The only country to have a national day of mourning after 11 September 2001 was Ireland. It was the only country that shut down its operation for a day to stand with us in the fullest sense of solidarity. The Irish should never think that is forgotten in New York. I would love to talk to Senator Keaveney more about the arts project she mentioned.

Sport and the arts were mentioned as powerful tools to bring people together. Much of what we have done in New York in these areas was modelled on different things the Irish have done. When we had terrible struggles between the African-American and Jewish communities in Brooklyn we set up basketball leagues, which was based in part on what we had seen done in Ireland. This summer we had a horrible spate of anti-Mexican hate crimes in Staten Island, with individual Mexicans being targeted largely by people from Liberia, and we are setting up a series of soccer tournaments in that area to strengthen the community. The members are correct in saying there is great potential to build communities. The arts and sport are also great avenues for young girls to get a sense of self-esteem and importance. I was a horrible athlete but loved being on a team. I was on the basketball team for a couple of years and made one basket at St. Mary's, Garden City, which I remember as though it were yesterday.

The feeling among some that the impact of the boom was not felt in the Border areas is an issue about which I have heard a number of times in my visits, and I would like to explore that further with members. The thought of our being outdone by Canada is completely unacceptable, so Ireland will have to find a way to fix that immediately. It is wrong. The mention of Canada and young people reminded me that Israel has a programme known as Birthright Israel in which young people go to Israel on a trip to see their heritage. I have often thought of the possibility of having a similar programme, although I am not exactly sure how it would be done. It does not have to be modelled exactly on the Israeli programme, but there is no reason we could not have something similar — a trip back to Ireland as a rite of passage for those who have Irish roots. I think the Israeli Government pays for that programme, and I do not suggest we use exactly that model, but something along those lines would be a possibility, and we should think about and explore it.

I thank members for their recognition of our work with Irish seniors. This has been done in partnership with the Irish Government. The New York Irish Center in Queens has a project in which Irish seniors telephone each other, which was started with funding from the Irish Government and modelled on a programme started here by some Irish seniors. We have been able to do the census and other work by building on that support.

I must mention something else on which we would also love to work with folks in the North and South. New York recently introduced an initiative called Age-friendly New York City, because the number of people over 65 in New York city will grow 25% faster than any other age group over the next decade. If we do not plan to be an age-friendly city, we will not be one. In that effort, we are working with the World Health Organisation as one of its targeted international cities to achieve this first ever designation. I would love to share that work with everyone. One of the things we did was to hold town hall meetings with seniors across the city to hear what they wanted, and the fire department had to come and shut some of them down because they were too crowded — so many seniors came to share their experiences. There might be something there we can work on.

All of this work, whether it is expanding sports or senior services, is connected to what Ms Ritchie said about the budget challenges we all face. New York city is in a much better position than most American cities and certainly than New York state. I mention New York state as a cautionary tale, as it has not dealt with its financial challenges. The budget deficit in New York city next year could be $2 billion or $3 billion, but we will be able to deal with it, in part, because from 2006 to 2009 — the first three years I was Speaker — there was a tremendous amount of Wall Street money coming into the budget. We had too much money, in view of the fact that we would never be able to sustain it. I met a group of Wall Street bankers recently and told them that my perspective on Wall Street was completely different from theirs. I like a Wall Street whose size is contained because then I have a sense of how much money I can rely on, while the bankers want it to go as high as it ever was. It is not that I do not want them to be rich, but we cannot budget that way. It does not really help me.

In those years, we had so much money that if we had expanded our services to that level we would never have been able to sustain them. Instead, we prepaid $8 billion worth of bills. As a result of the fiscal crisis of the 1970s we cannot run a surplus but must always have a flat balance. We put $3 billion in a trust fund for long-term retiree health costs and with the rest we prepaid future bills to pull down our expenses, because we recognised that the economy would go south, although we did not think it would do so as quickly or dramatically as it did. There are many lessons to learn from New York in budgeting because of our fiscal history. After almost going bankrupt, we had a terrible fiscal crisis in the early 1990s and another after 11 September 2001, which was not really that bad compared to the one in the 1990s and the current crisis, and from which we rebounded quickly. We then had the current crisis, in which we have been forced to start developing best practice and to identify areas in our budget that are opaque. When a budget lacks transparency, we cannot identify money that is not useful. We had to try to cut out services that are good but just not great, and we would be happy to work with people on that. We also have in New York — in my position it is not something I am always happy about — an entity called the independent budget office that does reports and studies on the city's budget and puts out its opinion. In concept, an independent budget office sounds perfect. When one is the speaker of the city council sometimes having people putting out reports one does not get to see is irritating, but it is a good thing in the sense of trying to root out where problems exist. I shall give two examples where we focused to try to find funding. We tried to focus on things that are good but not great. There had been a proposal to cut $20 million out of senior services but instead we identified $20 million worth of consultants in our office of design and construction. One of the things that office does is decide that fixing this park will cost $3 million; fixing that school will cost $10 million. They are not so good at it and their figures are often wrong. Hiring consultants to train them to do it better would not be a waste of money, but it would be money we simply did not have at present. We cut out that $20 million worth of consultants and kept the senior services money.

For decades we picked up people's grass clippings after they cut their lawns. That is not an outrageous thing for a municipality to do but we stopped doing it. It saves $2 million a year, not an enormous amount of money but $2 million a year is a significant chunk of the cost of domestic violence legal services. People do not like not having their lawn clippings picked up because it can make some lawns browner more quickly but in the scheme of life one gets over that. The problem is that if we do not continue to find such types of savings the situation gets worse. All Albany has done is kick the can down the road and its budget deficit will be $15 billion to $20 billion this year.

We have some very good people in our finance division in the city council — not me — really talented staff who would be happy to share their experience.

I join the other members of the committee in welcoming Speaker Quinn today. Her attendance before the committee is a further indicator of the strong and positive support of the New York City Council and of the Speaker's country, the United States, for the evolving peace process, political process and general movement forward towards a new engagement and a better place on the island of Ireland.

I acknowledge the interest of the New York City Council over many years in issues of justice and equality in Ireland. It has taken up and on occasions championed specific causes, the McBride principles being one such that comes to mind and which has been hugely important throughout those years. There is much we could say in appreciation. We also note Ms Quinn's point in regard to the huge contribution Ireland and Irish people have made to her city.

I shall focus on a couple of points. I am conscious of Ms Quinn's strong support for comprehensive emigration reform, in particular, her awareness and interest in the plight of undocumented Irish in her city. We are very aware of a growing number of young Irish people exiting our shores once again because of the economic difficulties that have beset us and which are not unique to us. There is comparable experience in Ms Quinn's country. We would like, if it is possible, for her to give us an idea of any prospect of serious address in regard to the undocumented Irish. This does not relate only to the newcomer Irish who present at this time. I am also aware from my Border county community that there are neighbours and people from my constituency, Cavan-Monaghan, who have been longer in New York and other US cities than they have lived in Ireland. They remain in that undocumented limbo. This is a very serious matter for people moving on in years who have families at home also moving on in years. Many have had to go through the great pain of not being able to return home for very close family bereavements and other matters of huge importance in their lives. It is not only in terms of economics or regularisation but a huge human dimension exists that must be factored in. Can Ms Quinn give us any information, encouragement or even guidance in how we might best work with her and others of similar good will towards the Irish community in its broadest sense in New York in the coming time?

My second point relates to the area of inward investment in Ireland. For many people, job creation is a barometer in terms of measuring improved circumstances, a peace dividend out of a changed situation and coming out of conflict into a better time and better times. Sadly, that has not been the case for many. Other colleagues from a variety of political opinion already indicated that there are significant parts of our island at which the Celtic tiger did not roar nor the peace dividend present in real and tangible terms. We could point to some improvements and to particular projects but in real terms for many people the Celtic tiger period and the peace dividend were a vague notion that were not realised.

I understand the economic difficulties being faced in the United States but this is a very important area. A point was made about vast swathes of rural Six Counties, the Northern part of our island, not being a focus of attention from outside interests. The same case was made by my constituency colleague, Deputy Seymour Crawford, in regard to our shared constituency and by Senator Keaveney in regard to the Border counties. I shall make an observation and see if it triggers any thoughts or action. We need to see greater synergies, as I describe them. Mr. Declan Kelly is there as an economic envoy, with particular attention to the Six County area, but if we go back to the genesis of all this, the Washington conference for trade and investment, its focus in the mid and late 1990s was the six north eastern counties and the six southern Border counties. It was a 12-county package. The current focus is singularly within the Six Counties area and I do not believe the rural Six Counties area that my party colleague, Mr. Pat Doherty MLA, referred to, will get the same address in isolation from the southern Border counties that immediately adjoin it. The obvious sense in which to address this is to look at it as a singular package and challenge. I wonder if there is any merit in exploring that remit. Clearly, it is not within the New York City Council's remit but that is an important voice within the broader body politic in the United States. Is there merit in looking at Mr. Kelly's remit and widening it and in looking at other supports in terms of looking at a 12-county entity rather than a Six Counties entity? I commend it to Ms Quinn. It certainly was the case under the Secretary of Commerce, Ron Brown, and the assistant Secretary of Commerce, Chuck Meisner, who were both tragically killed in an aeroplane accident later that year. It is worth going back to the first textbook, looking at what might be learned from that and applying it today. I believe we would get better results. I thank Ms Quinn for her attention.

I join in welcoming Speaker Quinn. It is an honour to have her here. I hope she has a rewarding trip. I join in the welcome to her father. I was taken when I read the briefing notes that her father campaigned for her in the elections on the basis that if she did not win, he would have to pay her rent; there is a certain candour about that.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

He even called every senior citizen and I actually heard one conversation where he said, "Yes, ma'am, I do not agree with her either but if she loses she is unemployed. Thank you very much, I will put you down as a ‘yes'."

A novel way of campaigning and probably quite effective as people appreciate candour. We are honoured that both Ms Quinn and her father are here.

I also join in the expression of gratitude for Ms Quinn's affirmation of what has happened here in the peace process. We are proud of it and we are conscious that it is a flower that needs constant nurturing and minding. That affirmation, and the role played by the United States, have been hugely important. The American dimension and the New York dimension have been crucial to the entire process, which we all appreciate.

We have huge links with New York through emigration. Liverpool was the 33rd county of Ireland and New York is almost another Ireland because of the links over the years. I have recently hosted cousins home from New York and everyone in this room has a similar story. We have seen a 50% increase in emigration in the past two years so the numbers going to New York are very real.

I am concerned about the undocumented Irish in New York. How can we resolve that huge issue? What can Ms Quinn do to help? We are all aware of people coming home for funerals and then being prevented from going back. People are now afraid to come home, which is awful.

The work with senior citizens is heartening. We are concerned about the older Irish in New York, not all of whom are fortunate enough to be able to come back to visit and not all of them did well. We tend to hear about those who did well, who are talked about and recognised, but unfortunately there are very many in the other category.

People have invited Ms Quinn to visit parts of Ireland but she could not have an itinerary that does not include County Cavan. I would be interested in hearing her opinions on tourism. It is emerging in the debate on our economy that tourism offers great job potential and something we must work on. How might we improve our tourism product and become more relevant in America? What could we do to bring more New Yorkers to Ireland and what acts to inhibit people from coming?

I was interested in the comment on the independent budget committee. That is relevant to what we are doing and could maybe be taken on board. Deputy Ó Caoláin raised the idea of a 12 county entity in terms of investment strategy and prioritisation in the United States and I endorse that suggestion. There are areas of Cavan and Monaghan that did not enjoy economic success and when canvassing that becomes apparent. There are also areas that did not enjoy any peace dividend. Mr. Pat Doherty MP made the point about parts of Tyrone but the same goes for parts of Cavan and Monaghan.

We are glad to welcome Ms Quinn here because we feel an enormous affinity with the country and the city she comes from.

I also welcome Ms Quinn to the committee. She will notice from my accent that I am not from the North, I am from the deepest south, I am an anomaly on this committee. I note from the itinerary that Ms Quinn will be in Ballymaloe House tonight and Cobh tomorrow, which is in my neck of the woods and I hope she enjoys her time there. We might find common relations and if they can be persuaded to vote for me in the next election, that would be good.

In addition to arts, sports and tourism, trade is vitally important for development in the North and the South. The development in our trade policy in recent years brings the North into our trade promotion work in other countries. As a former Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I visited New York on numerous occasions and developed different processes, such as a bio-link and a tech-link. This helped to promote Irish trade and 20% of our trade exports are to the United States, a figure that is holding up despite fluctuations between the value of the euro and the dollar and the downturn in both economies. I hope in New York city, Ms Quinn will continue to use her good offices to continue to promote the trade area, which is vital to the continuing development of our island.

With those words, I will bid Ms Quinn good bye but I will see her tomorrow in Cork at one of those functions. Ms Quinn will also meet our Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation, who will go to the United States next week.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

On the budget issues, I mentioned the city's independent budget office but a better model is the Congressional Budget Office in Washington. I can speak at greater length about what I think works with the IBO and what does not, but the CBO is a good model to look at. There is probably no more important document for any Government than its budget. Ultimately it is articulation of the Government's priorities and how much money those priorities will receive relevant to what they need. That is what is making our current situation so hard; there is simply not enough money to give everything what it needs. For all of us, it ultimately shakes out in this statement of our priorities. That is what makes the decision so difficult on who gets what funding, who gets taxed at what rate and similar questions. Entities in the congressional budget office can be helpful to work our way through this process.

Immigration reform intersects with the city's budget because we are currently struggling with the issue of Rikers Island, the city prison, where the ICE is on-site, the federal immigration enforcement entity. We spend more than $50 million to implement ICE's work. If a person gets arrested, he will be held in Rikers Island jail and not released on bail if he is undocumented while the process is gone through. If it is a violent situation that is altogether different. A major discussion is taking place in the city as to whether this is right. If it is right, is it right to spend that amount of money? How do we balance this procedure with the fact that the City of New York, to the credit of Mayor Bloomberg, has long had an executive order which provides that an individual who comes to the City of New York for any type of service, even in the course of getting that service, and it is discovered that he or she is undocumented the City of New York will not report that information? Under the presidency of George Bush, there was an effort to turn the emergency room of our public hospitals into immigration enforcement entities and Mayor Bloomberg, to his credit said, "Take away the federal health money". That was the threat. We are never going to do that. Eventually the Federal Government backed down. There is not an obvious tracking in the same direction of those two areas. I mention that as it intersects with the budget and some other issues here.

Recently in America there has been a contentious and unhelpful addition to the debate around immigration because of the incorrect actions of the Arizona Governor. I was extremely proud that the Irish-American community in New York city was as vocal and outspoken as the Latino community in New York city. A number of newspapers and Irish radio shows were very articulate in pointing out that if one of two Irish folks walking down the street has a brogue and one does not, and they are scooping up people they think might be illegal, they are going to pick the person with the brogue. Profiling can happen to all types of immigrants, even if the person with the brogue is a documented citizen. The Irish community in New York did not have to add its voice to the Arizona debate. It could have let it be just a Latino issue but it chose not to do so and that was the right course of action. I was incredibly proud of the community and it was an important for the overall issue of immigration reform.

I am not optimistic that comprehensive immigration reform will be introduced by our Federal Government any time soon. I hope I am wrong. I am just being Irish and pessimistic but I do not think I am wrong. We have to take New York's lead of the executive order and push other cities to do the same. It does not help people who want to come home when they have lost a family member but at least it keeps them safe if they need to go to the doctor, call a police officer and so on. We can try that. I do not know exactly how we can find ways for the Governments here and in New York to work together and help organise the undocumented Irish in a way that makes their voices heard. When the Irish immigration lobby was started, it sent thousands of people down to Washington for lobby days. That made a big difference because the immigration issue becomes extraordinarily racially polarised in New York. Having the Irish community as part of the debate is an enormous bridge-builder that helps us pick up support in Congress we would not otherwise have and in a way catches the opponents off guard. They are not expecting to see people who are not Latino and that is very helpful. We should work with friends such as Joe Crowley and others in Congress to figure out the right moment but certainly there is a great deal more we can do together. That the Irish community has been involved in all of this is critical.

The issue of job creation is a tough one for all of us but is one of the most important issues we can tackle. What we are trying to do in New York city is take the resources we have and figure out how we can rejig them to help create jobs. For example, we have begun looking at all the buildings the city owns to figure out how we can convert them into places where jobs could be created. In East Harlem there is an old abandoned city warehouse for which we were paying $0.5 million per year to hire security guards to keep the roof from falling in. We have invested $2 million capital into it to fit it out as an industrial kitchen which people who want to start catering or food companies can rent at a low cost. We believe this industrial kitchen will have the capacity to help 50 such start-up companies per year. It will help create jobs and it will get something that was a drain on the city's budget off the city's budget.

We are also looking at other areas in New York city that used to be part of the jobs engine. We used to be a major manufacturing hub, but not anymore. We have many old manufacturing spaces, one of which I visited in Brooklyn, which was a rope factory. It was huge because horses had to turn around to knot the ropes. We will never fill that space up with manufacturing. We subdivided it so we can now have a stained glass factory that has ten workers, a jewellery factory with eight workers, a plaster of paris factory with 100 workers, etc. Two non-profit organisations have started this entity. We have put in $10 million capital to take that subdivision citywide. That is another way one can look at things that were seen as useless and turn them into job entities.

On the question of whether Mr. Declan Kelly's work should be a 12 or a Six-Counties entity, it is not for us in New York to make that decision. That is an issue on which we would look to all of you to come to a consensus and say collectively what you think it should be. We would work with you to affirm Secretary of State Clinton's way or change it, but it is not appropriate for me to make that decision. It is important that whatever is done is transparent, accountable and is driven to where the need is and, therefore, where the focus should be.

Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, MLA

I welcome Ms Christine C. Quinn, her father, Mr. Larry Quinn and the team and hope they enjoy their visit. I enjoyed our discussion over lunch. I am aware they are going to Ballymaloe this evening. As Darina Allen is a great friend of mine you can tell her I was asking about her.

As part of her contribution Ms Quinn mentioned building bridges. This was a fairly significant week for us in that the last two cross-Border bridges were opened yesterday by the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, and me. Deputy Ó Caoláin and I had been involved in the campaign for more than a decade to have the last two bridges which join Tyrone and Monaghan, between the villages of Caledon and Glaslough, opened. In a week that has seen considerable bad news yesterday was symbolic in that those last two crossings are now open.

I was very interested in the points made by Ms Quinn over lunch and this afternoon about the practical research and development which is taking place in New York and also the new innovative ideas. Whether those ideas and that level of creativity are on this side of the Atlantic or the other it is important to share that expertise. I was pleased with her offer to work with us on that issue. I would be delighted to speak with some of her officials in the future with a view to using this opportunity to create employment and create a win-win situation for us all, not just from a construction or technology point of view, but in the area of affordable energy given that fuel poverty is a major issue and concern. What I liked about her contribution earlier was that these measures are mutually beneficial. It is not a case of us coming with the begging bowl but something we can do to help one another and together build our economies and the places we represent.

The point about consultancy services was important. If a decision has to be made about money to provide services for pensioners or consultancy services, that is a "no brainer" but that has been slow to develop here. We took a decision some time ago that all Sinn Féin departments in the North should minimise their use of consultancy services and do what we can in-house. If we need technical expertise on a particular issue it can be brought in but, by and large, we should remove the need for and dependency on consultancy services and use that money more wisely.

It is important that we cut out the fat such as the municipal collection of grass clippings, which was a good example. We should cut out the things we do not need but protect services for our most vulnerable, namely, our elderly, our children and the people in society who need us most.

To that end, in terms of investment opportunities, it is important to try to end inequality for people and places by addressing the issues of location and access to services because in times of recession in particular a "them" and "us" scenario tends to develop. While we have had a good discussion here today and a particular focus on rural areas, when money has to be saved those are the areas that will feel the axe first.

This has been a useful exchange of views. I am delighted the guests are here and I hope they enjoy their visit. Sinn Féin is a party that believes in equality and inclusivity. I support the guests on their position on the St. Patrick's Day parade. To that end we need courageous women in politics, and I am delighted that they are with us today. I look forward to continuing the dialogue.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA

It is a privilege to have the Speaker here with us. Like others, I have a deep affection for New York. As a very young man I once decided to fight an election, ended up bankrupt and spent four months in New York trying to dig myself out of the debt that was involved. For that reason, New York holds a very special place in my affections.

That is a personal reflection on the debt we owe to various Presidents of the United States for the work they have done, particularly President Bill Clinton for the commitment he made. He was here with us again in recent weeks.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

Yes. He said he played some good golf.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, MLA

We owe the Speaker and all our friends in New York for much of the progress here in recent years.

Much of what I might have said has been said already and there is no point in repeating it but how can the connections we have be strengthened and sustained? Emigration may be increasing now but in the past ten years the flow of Irish and the Irish interest in New York seems to have ebbed. How do we move on in new circumstances to sustain that connectivity, which neither of us should take for granted? How can we help Ms Quinn in her role as Speaker of the city council? How can we dove-tail with her to facilitate that and show our appreciation for what she does for us?

That is a long story and the speaker might take all day to respond to it but we must have some concept as to what the relationship could or should be in the future. The connection is very useful. It is even useful to travel to New York and meet friends. When I am fatigued at this end, I go there to recharge the batteries. It is great for three days. Beyond three days it gets a little intense but the buzz lifts one.

This relationship is special to New York and to Ireland. It needs some attention and investment and I would appreciate Ms Quinn's thoughts on that, not just the cultural and social aspects but the economic aspect in terms of how we can strengthen those economic ties.

Like the previous speakers I, too, extend a very warm welcome to Ms Quinn. We are privileged that she joined us today for this question and answer session. It is a good opportunity for members to discuss similarities and relationships that have existed for centuries and which we will try to continue.

I will not go over ground already covered, but I have read up on Ms Quinn and I see that she has an interest in early childhood education, if I may branch out on a different topic. That is an issue that has become of interest to many of us in the past ten years as much development has taken place in that area. I would like to hear Ms Quinn's views on that. I understand she is involved with a childhood education area in New York.

I have to say that New York holds a special place in my heart also. It has been four years since my last visit and therefore I am due to visit again. From the time when there was a great deal of emigration from Ireland we all have friends in New York. They are people who left and did not have the chance to come back here. Like others, we have concerns around the undocumented Irish. Ms Quinn spoke about some of the issues and anything she can do to help their plight would be welcome.

I have a number of friends who were undocumented and they had to come back here. They were caught, hand-cuffed, put in prison for a while and were detached from society. That is a difficult and stressful time for families, not knowing where their loved one is, if they are safe or how they are being treated. It is difficult and somewhat inhumane. If there are ways of dealing with that it would be very helpful.

A previous speaker referred to difficulties with the St. Patrick's Day parade. People should be more expansive in their views. It is an issue that should be resolved, not that we can have much say in it but we would like to see it resolved. We wish Ms Quinn well in the mayoral contest in three years' time, if she decides to run for it, but we would like to see those issues resolved in an amicable way for both parties and in a way that will not damage the parade because it is an exceptional day for Irish people and for Ireland. I attended it on one occasion and it is a day on which one would be proud to be Irish. If we damage that, it will not be good for Ireland. I wish Ms Quinn well for the remainder of her stay here.

I apologise for being late, Chairman. I had to attend another meeting.

Like everyone else I welcome Ms Quinn. I was on an Oireachtas trip to New York recently but unfortunately I got an infection in my foot and spent most of the time in bed. However, I did meet several New Yorkers, including Dr. Kevin Cahill, who is a distinguished Irish-American medical doctor and great historian. I visited his centre where they have a wonderful collection of GAA championship medals and cups displayed going back to the late 19th century.

I want to state how important New York is as a city to many Irish people, including members of my family. The Irish in particular have got a great welcome in New York, regardless of the borough in which one resides. Being Irish is something they are proud to accept in New York as part of their city. I hope Ms Quinn's visit to Ireland is rewarding and I wish her every success on the rest of her trip.

Ms Christine C. Quinn

When members spoke about the budgets I wanted to share something we had taken to doing in the council that has worked very well. The first year we had to cut back on spending for the city we meticulously went through everything we wanted to cut out of the budget. It was within our budget negotiating team — then the mayor and I negotiate — internally in the council and it was painful, because no one wanted to cut anything. We had to choose between this and that. The staff came to me at the end of that process and said next year let us do it differently, let us tell the budget negotiating team and borough delegations — as that is how we are set up — how much money we think we can prevent from being cut and ask them to build up a list. They would need to identify the things they most want to have funded, the things that for them must be in the budget. At first, it sounded like a subtle difference but it is an enormous difference. It has made the difficult process of not being able to fund everything much easier. This is separate from the process of identifying the things one can eliminate. I share this example because the input of the staff made a big difference. It has made a difficult process easier and it is probably the right way to prioritise the process. One does not want to cut anything one does not have to but one wants to make sure that some things are funded. I wanted to share that example.

I thank the Chairman and others for their comments about the parade. It is sad for me and many others that the parade is not inclusive. It is of enormous pride for me and others that many, if not all, parades in Ireland are inclusive. My father and I and a delegation of council members came over to the Dublin parade. We had thought we had negotiated an agreement with the AOH on a matter. Its members were all bent out of shape about the carrying of a banner depicting the word "gay". We said that if they did not want to carry it they could wear a sticker with a pink triangle. We had almost worked out the issue but we did not resolve it. We wore those exact stickers in the parade in Dublin. One of the original organisers of the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organisation sent me a note to the effect that the best thing that has happened, in terms of this effort, in a decade was our having been invited to Dublin and having worn those stickers in the Dublin parade. The issue around the parade will be resolved and when that happens it will be held in Barge Park because of the example set by people here. I thank people for that recognition and Sinn Féin and others for their support in that respect.

A few questions were raised about the reduction in the level of immigration and how that relates to the connection between New York and Ireland. We have thought a great deal about that in New York and tried to do work in that respect. Part of the increased focus in city funding on the Irish Arts Centre has been related to that concern. If fewer Irish people were to come to New York to live and build their lives, we need to focus on additional ways to build the connections as in the case of the Irish Arts Centre, Gaelic Park and the Irish Repertory Theatre where there is a history of the connection and a potential for it to be memorialised for people. That was part of the reason we redoubled our efforts to fund that centre and, hopefully, it will be the best centre possible and run the largest possible number of programmes and classes.

The relationship between New York and Ireland, like any other relationship, needs tending to; it needs attention and focus. I do not know the right way to do that. We might decide to set up a task force that has quarterly conference calls or engage in an effort where we focus and brainstorm on what we can do better as a city and a country to maintain the relationship and share information on events here or in New York. The Cork Jazz Festival takes place this weekend. I do not know if the tourism agencies here target the places in America that draw the most people who go to the New Orleans jazz festival. Perhaps they do but, if not, if we created structured or unstructured ways to brainstorm, we could develop such ideas and opportunities.

We are arranging for police officers from the Garda and the PSNI to come to New York and spend time with the NYPD. That is another great way to have such an exchange. Students from New York have done internships here and Irish students have done internships in New York City Council. Initiatives such as those are helpful and effective in maintaining the connection. Irish sports programmes in New York have exploded in terms of growth, not only at Gaelic Park but throughout the city. That is another development that helps to maintain the connection. This is something to which we should give more thought on an ongoing basis.

I will briefly comment on early childhood education. The drop-out rate from high school in New York City is a big problem. The rate of drop-out from high school, particularly among African American men, is unacceptably high. Some 1.6 million people in New York City who are old enough to have a high school diploma do not have one and neither do they have an equivalent diploma, a GED. That is an unacceptable number.

Most people believe that young people begin to drop out of education in grades 6, 7 or 8 in middle school, which is long before high school. When I was elected Speaker, I wanted to figure out how to fix the problem at grades 6, 7 and 8 in middle school. It is a tough time, educationally, for young people of that age for a host of reasons. Every person to whom I talked about this issue said that if one wants to fix the problem in middle schools, one must fix the problem at the level of early childhood education. We have to make sure that children are better prepared to be in the classroom, to excel there and to live up to the new standards of the classroom. When I became Speaker in New York City Council the duration of tuition for four year olds in most pre-kindergarten schools was half a day, which amounts to two and a half hours. If one knows anything about four year olds, one will know there are many great things about them. They do not move fast. By the time one gets a four year old into the class room, takes off his or her snow suit, reads a book or ties a shoe, two and a half hours will have passed but one will not have had time to time to teach. There are full-day pre-kindergarten schools where the number of hours of tuition would be the same as that for every other grade. We have a waiting list for full-day public pre-kindergarten schools and vacancies in half-day pre-kindergarten schools because such schools which provide tuition for half a day, namely, two and a half hours, do not work for parents who are working. Our focus has been on how to expand the number of full-day pre-kindergarten schools and how to achieve that in a data driven way in neighbourhoods where there is the most demand and the least number of pre-kindergarten places available. We are starting to see the positive effects of that in higher grades in those neighbourhoods.

In the year we first started working on this issue, I visited approximately 30 pre-kindergartens. After visiting the first few schools I asked the staff not to tell me if the duration of the tuition was a half day or full day and to let me see if I could figure it out. Within a minute one could figure it out. In schools where the duration of tuition is a full day, the children are more orderly and focused. One can tell immediately if the tuition is for a full day. Attending a pre-kindergarten school that provides full-day tuition makes a big difference in how well children do in kindergarten and first grade.

I thank the Speaker for her contribution. I sincerely thank her on behalf of our committee and our Parliament for her presentation and for replying to the many issues raised by colleagues. She has left us with clear messages: the importance of the peace process and progress of it at all times, even in these difficult economic times; the importance of solidarity, collectively responding in a collective responsible manner and getting a consensus on what we believe are the solutions and the resolutions to the difficulties we have to manage together; and utilising our connections, as Dr. McDonnell MP said, in Ireland with New York and with the United States to the mutual benefit of all Irish people in America and in Ireland. We have a clear message for the Speaker, that of the serious challenge we face in dealing with the undocumented Irish and the burning desire of the people of Ireland to have their undocumented people regulated. Our people are a small cadre of a big problem in the United States, a country for which we have the utmost regard and love.

There is a deep appreciation among members of the leadership the Speaker has shown in supporting the Irish American community in New York and in supporting projects that will be of great benefit to our community there and, importantly, to New Yorkers generally. As I said at the start of the meeting, her support of the Irish American community is practical and consistent.

On behalf of all my colleagues in Parliament and at this committee, and all our colleagues from Northern Ireland, I wish Speaker Quinn well in her continued service to the people of New York in her current capacity, in any future capacity and in addressing any future challenge she may face. It has been a pleasure to have her address our joint committee. We are deeply grateful to her. We hope that she, her dad and her friends will have a wonderful trip in the south of Ireland tomorrow back to her roots and we wish her continued success into the future. Go raibh míle maith agaibh agus rath Dé oraibh uilig i gcónaí.

I know the Speaker has a meeting with the Minister, Deputy Hanafin, and a member of our staff is waiting to take her to the Minister. We wish her well.

I ask for the indulgence of members and propose we go into private session for a very brief period.

The joint committee went into private session at 3.29 p.m. and adjourned at 3.47 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Tuesday, 9 November 2010.
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