The second item on the agenda relates to the question of the timing of our meetings. As everyone knows, we usually meet at this time on this day of the week. The Editor of Debates has been complaining that he finds it extremely difficult to cover the reporting of meetings of two such bodies held at the same time when both the Dáil and Seanad are also sitting. Indeed, at this moment, the Dáil and Seanad and both Joint Committees are sitting. There is a question of seeing in what way we can avoid this trouble for him and his staff. I will just indicate my own preference which is that the meetings should not be held when the Seanad is meeting. The Seanad does not meet all that often and, when we do meet, to be distracted by a sense of other public obligations is not helpful to the quality of public debate. It is my preference on the matter to pick a time other than 3 o'clock on Wednesday. If it were thought that, in spite of what I have just said, it should be Wednesday, my preference for the timing of it then would be 6 o'clock when hopefully there may be tea breaks on some Wednesdays and we could make use of that time. Again, just to complete my own preferences on it, if we were changing the meeting from Wednesday, personally I would prefer it to be held on Tuesday when the Dáil is meeting. We will have Deputies in Dublin who might not otherwise be available and it might be more convenient from that point of view. It is not too difficult at least for those Senators who are not too remote from Dublin to get here, and there are rather more of them. These are just my preferences on timing. I would like to hear what the Committee's views are on it, having made the point that 4 o'clock on Wednesdays is not, staff wise, a convenient time. Would anybody like to give an indication as to what would suit himself and the generality of the members?
Times of Meetings.
I support what the Chairman proposes. That would suit me.
6 o'clock on Wednesday?
No. Preferably Tuesday afternoon.
I feel that 6 o'clock might be difficult from the point of view of the staff. Also members have to eat. Perhaps that is a problem. The Committee should sit on a Dáil day. It would be rather inconvenient for rural Deputies to have to come up to Dublin on other days. Tuesday at 4 o'clock might be a good compromise.
I should like to give some information. To try to deal with this at Sub-Committee level, I called a few meetings for 10 a.m. or 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday and this was not really welcomed. If we decide on Tuesday, it might be convenient for Senators to meet later than 4 o'clock. This would not break up the day if they are doing something else. If it was 6 o'clock on Tuesday it might be easier for Senators to attend and the TDs are already there.
I am absolutely easy on the time you choose. It would be convenient for me later on Tuesday.
Because 4 o'clock will break up the afternoon.
Deputy Leonard
Further to that, when we are not voting on a Tuesday we might not be here as early as 4 o'clock and 6 o'clock would be more suitable on Tuesday in preference to Wednesday. In our party we have a lot of committee meetings on Wednesdays at 7 o'clock so that would not be very suitable.
Is it then beginning to emerge as 6 o'clock on Tuesday?
On the point made as regards editing, it must be very difficult when both the Dáil and Seanad are meeting and when we are meeting as well. It is certainly a very demanding job doing this editing and it must be very difficult to organise at times. I take that point and fully accept it. I am just a little concerned though about going away from Wednesdays.
I have not had experience of previous Seanaid but Wednesday is the day this Seanad tends to meet. A fact of life perhaps totally unrealised by the general public is that the pressures on Deputies of all parties are enormous. It constantly intrigues me how they cope with the workload they have as well as attend meetings like this, let alone try to read up the numerous papers and so on. It is a matter to me of considerable wonderment and admiration. We as Senators are not entirely idle, but we do not have quite the same pressures as Deputies have. That is not to say that we may not all be very busy people in our different ways, and this comes out when we look at the actual attendances here at the Joint Committee or the Sub-Committees. Although the Deputies substantially outnumber the Senators in membership, in practice—and I make no reflection on the Deputies especially on the ones here present who have gone to particular trouble to attend—it just does not seem to be as feasible for them to attend on average as it is on average for Senators to attend. If we change to Tuesdays we will not greatly alter the ability of Deputies to attend and I suspect there will be a rather lower attendance of Senators because they will not be here, Mr. Chairman. When the Secretariat go about rounding up the sheep, the lambs and the goats from hither and thither around Leinster House, there will not be so many Senatorial lambs to be rounded up. I would like to put that point before suggesting that perhaps on an experimental basis for one term of the Houses of the Oireachtas we might try Tuesday; an afternoon sitting would certainly not be advisable but possibly 6 p.m. would.
We do not have to even give it a try for a session. We could try it for a few meetings and see what happens. Will we try 6 p.m. on Tuesday?
I suggest we meet during recess. Do this Committee have to break when the Dáil and Seanad are in recess?
No.
I would like to propose that there might be one or two meetings during the recess. That means there could be two meetings of each Sub-Committee and two meetings of the Joint Committee. There are quite a few interesting matters to be taken and the Consumer Credit Report should not be held up. In my Sub-Committee we have energy objectives for 1990 which are absolutely crucial to what is going on at the moment and to have the Joint Committee to look at that matter would be very useful. There must be many other subjects in the other Sub-Committees that need to be looked into. I would like to make that proposal although I have not consulted my own party on that and it is a personal view.
Deputy Leonard
I agree with that. For a Deputy who has to come to Dublin one or twice a week it is much more convenient to attend a meeting when the Dáil is not sitting than when the Dáil is sitting.
May I suggest that we have a meeting in the earlier part of July and in the latter part of September.
Should we fix a date in July now?
To recognise the reality of holidays I would suggest the earlier part of July and the latter part of September.
That is the decision we have reached.