I welcome the following from the Irish Countrywomen's Association: Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison, national president; Mrs. Elizabeth Wall, national secretary; Mrs. Gwendolyn Carter, national treasurer; Ms Mairead O'Carroll, chair of the national advisory committee; Mrs. Marie O'Toole, national press officer; and Mr. John O'Callaghan, chief executive officer. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the role of the ICA in Irish society. Members also are interested in hearing the delegates' views on how Ireland can develop as a society in the 21st century and how their organisation perceives the challenges that face us. It goes without saying that all members appreciate the work the ICA has done and look forward to hearing from its representatives. I will be obliged to leave shortly before 3 p.m., at which time the Vice Chairman, Deputy Michael Kennedy, will take over. I invite Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison to open the proceedings. As Mrs. Dennison has to hand a lengthy script, would it be possible to summarise it?
Role and Functions: Discussion with Irish Countrywomen’s Association
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
I presume all members have read the script as it had been sent in previously.
It has been circulated.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Is everyone familiar with this script or have members had time to read it?
Yes, it has been circulated to colleagues.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Basically, it covers a little bit on our background, our foundation, our present position and our contribution to community, which is of great importance to our organisation. We conducted a review of our organisation because we considered that it needed to be done to prepare ourselves for the ICA in the 21st century. We came up with three options, namely, to wind down, to continue in a slow death or to reinvent ourselves. We opted for the third option, namely, to reinvent and to modernise our organisation with a renewed purpose for the 21st century and much work has been done in that regard.
The three core elements of this strategy are, our membership organisation, which probably is familiar to all members, An Grianán, which is a very important part of our association and is our adult education college and influencing social and economic policy as it affects women and families. While many believe that the equality and rights agenda has in many respects been dealt with, particularly where women are concerned, we do not think this is so. At our annual general meeting, we adopted a number of priorities including health issues, children's rights and the fate of missing children, violence against women and human trafficking. We have consulted the main organisations that deal with these issues and over the coming months, we will campaign with them and will issue directives to our members and so on. As for our final priority, in 1991, the Commission on the Status of Women recommended that a minimum of 40% of women be appointed to State boards. As this is something that has not been achieved, we wish to follow it up.
Recently, our national advisory committee, which is representative of our 20 federation presidents and our regional presidents met to discuss where we are and came up with a number of proposals and identifiable points that are needed in the organisation and in Ireland. We identified a need to emphasise local sustainability, strengthened communities, sharing of creativity, knowledge and skills, as well as conservation and self-sufficiency within communities and families. We looked into these issues in depth and in our discussion, which is very important within our organisation, we came up with some points that really mattered. They included family and community, social justice, a commitment to accountability and integrity, as well as building leadership in every area of our lives and society that combines wisdom with courage and common sense.
We are concerned by the state of our country at present and are completely bewildered by what has happened, why it has happened and how it has happened. However, we are clear that this should not happen again and that in building our communities and our organisation at local level, perhaps as an organisation we can help to bring Ireland back up on its feet from the ground up. We hope to make a major contribution in that regard. Our organisation was in crisis four years ago and consequently we were obliged to look into ourselves but we faced up to the challenge, confronted it and now are engaged in the reinvention of our organisation.
This basically sums up the contents of the script that is available to members and which I hope they will read.
I appreciate that. I thank Mrs. Dennison for the brief summary and note members also have the script. In asking people to summarise, we try to get a flow of dialogue and if possible, comments in a question and answer format. In that regard, I invite Mrs. Dennison or any of her colleagues to comment before bringing in members of the committee.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
While the Chairman has introduced us, each person in attendance has a role. For example, Mrs. Elizabeth Wall is the ICA's national secretary and chairman of our development committee. Mrs. Gwendolen Carter is our treasurer. She looks after our purse-strings and our money and is very good at that. Mr. John O'Callaghan is our new chief executive officer, having joined the organisation on 1 September and is leading us into the reinvention. He has done a wonderful job and has displayed a great understanding of our organisation since his arrival. Ms Mairead O'Carroll is chairman of our national advisory committee and of our policy committee and she is the person who deals with many of those issues. Mrs. Marie O'Toole is our press officer and the Dublin federation president. Anyone present does not simply have a single role but plays a number of roles.
Mrs. Dennison mentioned the state of the country, the economy and so on and the ICA undoubtedly is close to this on the ground. In addition, she mentioned that the ICA has been obliged to conduct a review.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
We reviewed our own organisation.
In many ways, the ICA mirrors the country in that regard.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Correct.
The challenge facing everyone is to try to reinvent ourselves, pick ourselves up and to provide the necessary leadership. Consequently, members clearly greatly value the role played by the ICA in that process. I do not wish to curtail what Mrs. Dennison or the other delegates may have to say and they should feel free to add to her comments before I invite members to contribute.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Development within the organisation is very important and we must develop to survive. As Mrs. Wall is chairman of our development committee, she may wish to comment on that area.
Mrs. Elizabeth Wall
It is somewhat like the country, in that we are considering the redevelopment of our association and this comprises looking at all aspects of membership. In addition, we are considering bringing forward our communication strategy to teach all our members to use Internet tools such as Skype and Bebo. At present, we are in the process of re-examining everything pertaining to the development of the association. While we have a development grant, unfortunately it runs out in December and consequently we are looking at this again.
While Chief Whip and Minister of State with responsibility for the information society, I had a modest role in working with many organisations on the issue of trying to help groups, including the ICA, with regard to the information society and what was called e-inclusion at the time. The work the ICA is doing in this regard is highly valuable and I hope it will be able to get funding from the various relevant sources. Do either Ms Carter or Mr. O'Callaghan wish to add to this?
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Mrs. Gwendolyn Carter looks after our finances, that is her area.
Mr. John O’Callaghan
The association had this opportunity to have such a meeting recently, as mentioned by the president. We have a role to play. We have been contacted by the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, with regard to farming health and safety. He asked us to get involved with the IFA and Macra na Feirme in respect of prevention and education. A study carried out in west Jutland suggests that if one educates women, men do not die. That was interesting and suggests a role for the ICA to ensure that education takes place in the farming community.
We are trying to correct the impression in the community of what the ICA does. Recently, in south Tipperary, a community facility for elderly people providing heat, clothing and feeding had been supported by Government funds but the funds had run out and will not be renewed until February. The ICA carried out a bag pack and raised enough money to continue the service for the next two months. The ICA regularly takes these actions but does not communicate them nationally or to its community because it does them on a confidential basis. It is in providing support to communities that the ICA excels. We received support from the Government for development and from the family support agency and this has been graciously received. It goes to the source and all funding is magnified in the community through the ICA.
We have a good turnout of committee members today. I invite Deputy Jimmy Deenihan of Fine Gael to make his opening remarks.
I am pleased the Chairman invited the ICA to make a presentation to the committee. I recognise the extraordinary contribution of the ICA to Irish society. One can compare it to the contribution of the GAA, Macra na Feirme, the Gaelic League and other major national movements. From a woman's point of view, the organisation and the movement that mattered most to their lives was the ICA. It continues to fulfil that role. The ICA was founded at a time when the role and value of women in Irish society was not fully recognised. That prevails to some extent even though the country has made massive improvements. They ICA fulfils an important social role and provided a support network for women across society that gave them the confidence to take leadership roles in society and the confidence that they have the same contribution to make to society as their male counterparts.
It is difficult to assess and value the great contribution the ICA has made. Books have been written about the ICA but in time sociologists and historians will look back at the organisation's critical role when it was set up.
In terms of politics, two people associated with the ICA became very prominent. One was Kit Ahern, who was president of the ICA in the 1960s, and then became a Senator and the Deputy in Kerry North before I became a Deputy. She represented Fianna Fáil from 1977 to 1981 and was a good friend of mine. Her passionate interest in the arts continued until her 95th birthday and her interest and commitment was influenced by her involvement in the ICA. Another such person is Patsy Lawlor, who served in these Houses as a Senator and was a high-profile figure. The ICA has provided Irish politics with dynamic women and no doubt some of the witnesses may emerge as politicians. The way people are dropping out in these Houses, they have their chance.
As a Minister of State in the mid-1990s I was involved with Bord na gCon. There were only seven members on the board and I remember insisting that the 40% rule should apply. This is now one of the few boards with this rule. There are three women on the board and it may make it awkward for the Minister of the day to appoint three women when so many men seek to be appointed to the board. When we set up Fáilte Ireland, I tabled an amendment so that the rule would also apply there. I did the same for the Arts Council but the rule does not apply generally. The argument against it was that a board will be composed of all women if they were good enough and that one should not differentiate. That rule does not apply because of experience and the composition of boards. Most boards have many women on them. As a committee, we should recommend this measure.
It is important that all organisations in this country, including the political establishment, should preach accountability and integrity at this time. Our accountability and integrity has been severely damaged around the world. Contacting associates in the US or the UK confirms this. I received an e-mail last week from someone in Baghdad before speaking in the Dáil. One could pick Baghdad as the most destabilised place but they will form a Government shortly and things are not too bad. People in Baghdad were commenting on what is happening in Ireland. From that point of view, it is important the ICA identifies accountability and integrity as one of its real mission statements.
Regarding rebuilding leadership, the ICA can influence women so that they assume leadership roles. Senator Bacik wrote a very good report on the involvement of women in politics. In opposition, the only real contribution one can make is by working with community groups and committees. The members of most of those community groups are women. I have said it publicly outside these Houses that I find it easier to work with women than men. Generally, if women say they will do something, they will do it.
We multi-task.
Translating this point to leadership, women should be encouraged as much as possible to assume leadership roles. They should be supported in assuming leadership roles in our society. There should be a 50:50 divide, with no section of our population disenfranchised or not represented in our democracy. This is a very good democracy but it is only as strong as the involvement of the entire population.
I refer to the ability and contribution women could have made in the past. The added contribution they could have made has not been capitalised on. Considering Senator Bacik's report, the untapped potential inside and outside the Houses must be released and allowed expression as much as possible. The male world in this country can help in facilitating that.
I agree with what Deputy Deenihan said. We are here to honour the history of this organisation. We also want to look forward to the years ahead. I must leave before 3 p.m. because I am attending the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, where we will meet the mothers of two people who disappeared in Colombia. I visited the country recently with Trócaire. There is a major problem with human rights there and these two people were victims of extrajudicial killings. Two mothers are appearing before the committee today and when I visited Colombia with Trócaire and colleagues from others parties, the majority of people I met to discuss the human rights situation in Bogota, the capital and other areas, were women. They are the people on the ground. Women on the ground are very active across the globe. They show real leadership and I mention this in passing although the context here is different.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
All of our 14,000 members are voluntary. We are not paid. We have a very small paid staff.
I welcome the delegation today and I acknowledge the immense work done by the ICA over 100 years. We are all very aware of that. Anyone who is the mother of young children, as I am, knows all about multitasking. Deputy Deenihan is correct in stating that women are very good at it. I am pleased the delegation spoke about the renewal of the organisation and that it will maintain a third focus on influencing social and economic policies. We are conscious the ICA has been engaged in advocacy over many years. I am delighted to see that one of the five priorities under that heading is the continued imbalance of women in decision-making. Deputy Deenihan mentioned the reports produced by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Women's Rights. I was the author of that report on women's participation in politics. I will send out copies because I would like to see the ICA engage in that debate. We have many concrete recommendations on bringing more women forward through political processes to ensure more women representatives at all levels of political life. The ICA also referred to State boards and other areas. I welcome that. I also thank Deputy Upton for allowing me to speak early in this debate. Unfortunately, I must leave the meeting as I have tabled amendments to the Bill being debated in the Seanad. I apologise for leaving early.
Ms Mairead O’Carroll
I chair the policy committee and we have read Senator Bacik's report. I am very interested in it and it would be great if Senator Bacik can talk to the policy committee.
I would be delighted to do that. I am working with the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White, and we are meeting the general secretaries of the political parties tomorrow. We are trying to move forward on the recommendations.
Ms Mairead O’Carroll
I am delighted to hear that.
Tá céad míle fáilte róimh agus go raibh maith agaibh as ucht teacht anseo agus labhairt linn faoi Beantreacht na Tuaithe. Is mór an chabhair é sin dúinn. The document is very impressive and gives us an opportunity to have an insight into the work of the organisation. The ICA has an exceptional history but is also destined for an exceptional future. I say that on the basis of its reinvention and modernisation programme. The association came to a crossroads, like most organisations in Ireland and perhaps across the world, because of a changing society, changing attitudes and increased media intrusion. It is clear the organisation took this seriously.
The three options put to the organisation were challenging. I had to read it twice to make sure that one of the options was to close shop. I am glad the organisation did not take the second option of winding down the shop over a number of years. The third option is vital for the organisation. Deputy Deenihan referred to the formidable leaders of the organisation, many of whom I have met. I knew the two he referred to, one of whom was Mamo McDonald. Those of us living in small communities, although perhaps it is also true of large communities, knew that the organisation was always much more than flower shows and cake sales. We knew the ICA had an influence on every aspect of life. This is underlined by the priorities set at the last AGM.
The point is made that everything has changed and we should never allow that to happen again. It is not just an economic change, many other changes have affected our quality of life. It is clear the ICA is focused on this. The fact that the AGM considered the most vulnerable people in society is an indication of the greatness of the organisation and its potential. I admire the ICA greatly for having done that. Most of us are involved in organisations and when it comes to the AGM, they can be clinical and there can be much trouble blowing and drumbeating but the ICA has taken a very different approach. It is aware of how effective the organisation can be. The ICA knows its potential to do good at the present time.
I was interested to note that the organisation had guilds outside of Ireland at one point. There is great strength in this because the Irish diaspora is so huge and will continue to increase through emigration. When the organisation is active outside of Ireland, the messages come back through relations, parents and grandparents. Many people abroad need help even though they are a highly educated community. Some will emigrate of their own volition for experience but nevertheless it can be a lonely existence. They look for a focus in their country of adoption and they want to know to whom they can go. Sometimes they go to Irish societies. The fact that the ICA involves women and mothers, gives it an image towards which people may gravitate. I hope there is a possibility the ICA will extend outside Ireland because of the number of Irish communities in the USA, Britain, Australia and other countries. The ICA may also interact with non-Irish people and find they have certain assets with which we can interact.
I am sure the ICA has debated its role as if its role was only in the past. The role of the ICA is greater now, with different instruments of operation. There is now an isolationist aspect to community through fear, changing communities and people locking their doors. People in those situations feel very lonely and vulnerable. They do not have the opportunity to share their worries and concerns with others. Through the ICA, their image and profile, much can be achieved in this regard. We had the Celtic tiger, which is not breathing as strongly as it was in the past, but the result was a peripheral sadness of people who did not improve their quality of life through that period. I am not sure of the profile of the ICA but in some organisations there is a difficulty in getting young people involved yet it is vital that an organisation such as this reaches out to young people. It reaches out to them best when they are with its members, imbibing its philosophy and finding out its methods of working. I am sure the witnesses have been addressing this themselves. Every organisation has exactly the same challenge.
We are supposed to ask questions, but my last comment is not really a question. I always hope the ICA can be represented on as many State agencies as possible and that it would be involved in any consultation that is taking place in the preparation of Government policies. If its members' experience and expertise are not offered in the early stages of policy being designed, it is difficult to change it afterwards. It is a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. I suggest they add this to their list of priorities: to tell every Minister and Government agency that the organisation has people at its disposal who have the right experience in the community and a deep knowledge of the difficulties and strengths experienced by communities. It is imperative that organisations such as the ICA are involved. I wish the ICA a happy anniversary. We will not be around to wish its members luck at their next centenary, but we all owe them a major debt of gratitude for what they have done for their communities and for the whole country. I have no doubt the organisation will play a pivotal role in the future. Go raibh rath Dé oraibh agus go n-éirí go geal libh.
I thank the delegation for coming before the committee. I pay tribute to the ICA on its centenary and, more importantly, acknowledge its vast contribution to the social development of Irish society. Deputy Deenihan, in his final remarks, made reference to its role and linked the ICA to the GAA. It is important to see the work of the ICA as a major advance not just for women's issues, but also for the creation of sustainable communities. I note that the ICA has a website and a Facebook page, which shows that it has moved with the times. It also made a brave decision in appointing Mr. O'Callaghan, which should be acknowledged. I have heard him on "Farm Week" in the mornings with Damien O'Reilly and on other programmes, and he is becoming a fine ambassador for the ICA.
The witnesses spoke in their fine address about where we are today. How do they see the ICA playing a more forceful role in a modern urban Ireland and in reshaping the country? It has a vital role to play. As Senator Ó Murchú mentioned, the Celtic tiger is gone. He has emigrated; he is dead. I do hope the volunteer spirit comes back, because that was lost during the years of the Celtic tiger.
One of the five priorities of the ICA is domestic violence and the organisation has held a series of meetings in this regard. On Monday in Cork we had a major seminar on this subject, at which we heard that domestic violence had increased in Cork by 20%. I would like to hear the witnesses' views on the role of the ICA in combating this.
How can we make the ICA relevant in an urban Ireland? That is the greatest challenge facing Ireland. When one moves beyond the Red Cow, one finds satellite urban towns and cities such as Cork. I know the ICA has strong branches in Bishopstown, Ballinora, Togher and Douglas in Cork city. I thank the witnesses for coming here today and pay tribute to the ICA for its sterling work and its vision, which it has always had. In preparation for today's meeting I read the remarks of some of the speakers at various ICA conferences and events. The organisation is rooted in community and based on values. I wish it well.
I welcome the witnesses and thank them not only for their presentation, which was great, but also for the work they have done over many years in both rural and urban Ireland. I am a representative of the Dublin area, and some of my friends are members of the ICA in Dublin. It is great that this is happening. To follow on from what Senator Buttimer said, how can that be expanded? I think there are relatively few guilds in Dublin, although I am not sure. Perhaps the witnesses could expand on that aspect. The role of the ICA in urban Ireland is now every bit as important as it is in rural Ireland, although perhaps with a different emphasis. The isolation that others have mentioned does not necessarily exist in urban Ireland as it does in parts of rural Ireland, but there is still isolation, although it is often not identified or recognised. Organisations such as the ICA play an important role, particularly for women who may be a little reserved and not enthusiastic about getting out into the community. I am well aware of this role because, although I represent a Dublin constituency, I come from rural Ireland and I know how important its work has been there.
I compliment the ICA on its list of priorities, which are important and progressive. It is doing a very important political job - with a small "p" - in the sense that it has identified issues that are at the heart of Ireland and at the heart of communities. These include health issues, and the witnesses identified some of the groups with which the organisation works in this regard. I imagine there is scope, if it has the required supports, to expand on that.
The recognition of the volunteer spirit is also very much to be welcomed, and the group is to be complimented on that, because it has made our community so much stronger. However, it is probably quite difficult to achieve. I ask the witnesses to comment on this. If the organisation is trying to get involved in so many different peripheral areas, it will require supports to be able to get to the heart of the issues involved.
I compliment the group on the wording of its commentary on women and State boards. I am one of those women - I have made public statements on this - who does not believe in quotas for women. The reason is that we cannot just have a quota - there must be equality and there must be a balance. We cannot just say somebody should be on a board or a political platform because she is a woman. The wording of the ICA in this regard is "subject to objective criteria", which I welcome. This is very important and I support it.
The point about the State boards was true and, unfortunately, it is still true. My background is in science and I was well aware of the many scientific committees, subcommittees, boards and so on on which women were poorly represented. I was aware that there were many highly qualified women who would have been available to serve on those boards but, for whatever reason, they were never invited to do so. The witnesses were absolutely right in stating that it was not for want of suitably qualified women that there were few women on these boards. It is important, in achieving a greater representation of women on such boards, that they are suitably qualified.
The ICA has faced up to its challenges very well, but perhaps the witnesses would comment on the future direction they see for the organisation. How much more involved can it be in the community, and can it play a more important role in the future? What are the challenges or barriers to achieving some of the objectives they might like to set for the organisation?
I endorse the welcoming comments of my colleagues. This discussion has brought back happy memories of my childhood, as my late mother was president of the first ever guild that was set up in Drumshanbo, County Leitrim, where I lived. Even though I was far too young to appreciate the important work the ICA was doing, I remember there was always a sense of great import about the activities of the guild. I also remember, once or twice a year, wondering where my mother had disappeared to - it was to An Grianán. We have a very successful summer school in Drumshanbo now, called the Joe Mooney Summer School after my late father. It is run by a wonderful lady called Nancy Woods, along with a great committee. My mother passed away last year, Lord have mercy on her, and Ms Woods told me that her earliest memory of my mother, who was a young teacher in Drumshanbo at the time, was that she taught her how to crochet. The emphasis was very much an arts and crafts, and I see the witnesses in their presentation made reference to the importance of arts and crafts in the ICA - more so in its history than today. I am sure the delegates will agree they are as important today. It may be even more relevant today that the traditional arts and crafts for which this country has been renowned should be nurtured and encouraged. I include artisan producers. The ICA is owed a debt of gratitude because it retrieved many practices that had been dying out although I do not wish to give the impression that is its main function. The presentation did not give that impression but I wish to single out that aspect of the work which is just as important as cultural and other aspects.
In picking up points made by others about priorities, I declare an interest. The last point concerned women involved in decision making. In 2001 I and a very respected senior research librarian in Leinster House, Ms Maedhbh McNamara, embarked on a project which culminated in a book on women in parliament. In our opinion it was the first definitive book published in this country that highlighted the gaps and inadequacies in our political system, the reasons more women do not become involved in political activity and the obstacles placed in front of them. Sadly, those conclusions are as relevant today as they were then. Senator Bacik came to this issue - I do not suggest she was late - since her arrival in the Seanad in 2007. She has used that platform very effectively and I pay tribute to her for that.
I attended the Council of Europe where I was one of the few men who sat on a committee which was referred to as "the committee for women and men" rather than "for men and women". I was very honoured to be appointed rapporteur to produce a report on women's participation in politics throughout the membership of the Council of Europe. I do not say this in any sense of boastfulness but to show I come to this subject with a particular baggage. One of the conclusions made then forms the context of the question I wish to pose to the delegates. Let us focus on Ireland and the conclusions we made here. At that time we engaged Professor Yvonne Galligan and her team at TCD to carry out a scientific survey on women in politics funded by the Ireland Fund. I commend the book to the policy committee of the ICA if it does not already have a copy. It is not out of print but had a strong print run. It is available in most local libraries. I believe the delegates will find it contains valuable information in regard to the work they are doing.
There has been much emphasis today on volunteerism which is important and essential but one of the conclusions our survey found was that women who volunteered in general stopped short of getting involved in political activity. They were quite happy, content and fulfilled in being involved, for example, in the ICA or other volunteer organisations but when it came to stepping up to put themselves forward for election they did not do so. Within that finding, there was a sub-set of reasons, not least the fact that traditionally women are the nurturers in the family, have family commitments and must raise children. I am not trying to be in any way sexist or politically incorrect but these are facts and realities that the delegates, as women, must face every day in their lives. That position was seen as an obstacle because the political system and the environment in which they would be expected to work did not accommodate the needs and priorities of women who nurture their children. There were no proper crèche facilities; there was the inflexibility of the hours. Meetings, which were male-dominated, were set at times that suited men rather than women.
The ICA has a challenge in this regard but is in a unique position to advance the position of women. Of its nature the organisation is non-political and it is right and proper it should be so. However, there are very active women in the organisation who are making a great contribution. Perhaps there could be a meeting of minds between the political class or establishment in this country and the significant number of women who, if encouraged, would take part in political life. One of the conclusions of our study was that, for whatever reason, men did not need to be encouraged but stood out front to stand for election but women needed to be actively encouraged. The worst position to be in was to be a female challenger; the best was to be a male incumbent. That is where women must start.
I would like to see the ICA debating internally how this can be conquered, based on all the available resources. I part ways with Deputy Upton on this point. I favour quotas because that step has had to be taken in every other country. Scandinavian countries are constantly used as a model but they introduced quotas. They do not have them any longer because they achieved a critical mass of elected women. When women achieve a critical mass in any political society they have a real direct influence on policy. In this country, until women hit critical mass they will not have influence and will remain on the margins. The way to hit critical mass is to impose quotas. There is a variety of ways to do this.
I do not want to dominate the discussion on this issue but I am trying to provide a context for what the delegates declared to be one of their priorities. For example, during the last election in Britain the Labour Party decide to put women into constituencies where they could win seats. It often happens that women are put into constituencies or electoral areas in local elections where they have no chance of winning seats. This time, wherever there was a retiring male MP in a strong Labour area, the Labour Party put forward a woman, much to the annoyance of men. I know of one or two cases where secretaries of male MPs who had worked for 20 years expected to fill those seats when their bosses stepped down but they were bypassed. In Wales, uniquely, 50% of the Cabinet are women, from clustered constituencies. The Welsh Assembly identified these constituencies and declared that any two constituencies contiguous with one another had to return a woman. I point these out as examples of the many ways that political parties can be encouraged to think about how they can adapt their processes to ensure there is direct access for women to enter politics. I suggest to the delegates that in their deliberations they do not throw out the notion of having quotas as an initial step. When critical mass is reached quotas can be done away with because the outcome will have become a norm.
I thank the delegates for attending. I have childhood memories of the ICA as a permanent fixture in my house. I always admired and applauded its work and the many people to whom Deputy Deenihan referred who have contributed to the national life of this country for many years. I wish the organisation continued success.
Deputy Michael Kennedy took the Chair.
I apologise that I had to leave earlier to attend a meeting in my office. However, I kept an eye on the broadcast proceedings. The charge is thrown at most politicians that we are never seen in the Dáil Chamber but we keep an eye on what goes on. That is the great bonus of modern technology.
I thank the delegates for attending and giving an outline of the work they do. They certainly have improved the standard of life in rural Ireland during the past 100 years through the involvement of the organisation. Perhaps the committee might go to Termonfeckin to see the college in An Grianán. It is an interesting invitation and I would love to go there.
I am the Fine Gael spokesperson on community, equality and Gaeltacht affairs and it has been a pleasure to go around the country in the past five years to islands and to visit various groups. My Irish has improved. Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge agus tá mé ag feabhsú.
Maith an fear.
It would be most interesting to visit the centre. I shall follow Senator Mooney's contribution with a personal note. I came to the Oireachtas from a business background. In the country the male was supposed to be the leader of the house and on the farm he was the front of house person. Our business was under Mr. Patrick Feighan but effectively my mother ran it. It was the same way throughout Ireland for the past 50 or 60 years but we did not recognise the contribution made by the silent partner. At one stage, the country was in the grip of alcohol. We had a love affair with alcohol and only for the people at home who effectively ran the businesses and farms and took care of important affairs such as raising the children and financial affairs, this country would be a good deal worse off.
We have come a long way in that now the male is involved in the family. We have matured over the years and I wish to put that on the record. I recall sales representatives coming to our shop looking for the boss and talking to my mother, who worked 70 hours per week, and she used to say that the boss was not there at the moment but that she would get the message to him. This is still going on and this should be acknowledged.
Whereabouts was the Country Workers Ltd. Shop and Restaurant in Dublin?
Mrs. Marie O’Toole
It used to be on St. Stephen's Green.
It was a forerunner of the co-op. There was a very successful ICA in Boyle which used to hold the forerunner of the country markets to which the produce was brought. This was a forerunner of the farmers' market. In this sense, the ICA was ahead of the game many years ago. Perhaps it was not promoted in the same way as the farmers' markets are now but it is refreshing to see them return and to see such interest.
Farm guesthouses have been an iconic part of Irish tourism. I realise they face significant problems in getting tourists into the country. How are farm guesthouses and bed and breakfasts holding up? This part of our tourism has suffered over the years, not through lack of investment or initiatives but perhaps tourists are staying in the major hotels. What are the delegations views in this regard?
Negotiations or discussions about getting rid of the €10 travel tax have taken place. Fine Gael has put it to the airlines, including Ryanair and Aer Lingus, that we would scrap the tax if they could prove to us that they would bring and additional one million tourists. What is the view of the delegation? Has the tax been hindering the tourism business?
I thank the delegation for its excellent submission. I had not realised the organisation was set up in Bree, County Wexford although I was there some weeks ago. I wish the delegation every success and I believe the decision it has made to carry on is wonderful. I am interested in the fact that the association has put out almost a call to arms to reinvent Ireland. Like politicians, communities and groups such as the ICA have a role to play. The country needs leadership and it must be lead by politicians in one sense. We must examine the way we do business and how we intend to do business in future. Significant issues and problems remain to be addressed and politicians must lead by example, as the ICA has done. I thank the ICA for its contribution today.
Before I call Mrs. Dennison I wish to say a few words. I welcome the delegation. I met Mrs. O'Toole recently in Lusk in north Dublin and I had the pleasure to be part of a lovely function to recognise 100 years of the ICA in north Dublin. The event was hosted by Fingal County Council. It was interesting to hear the views of the young and old.
People have made reference to new members. On that occasion there were many young women from Lusk. They held an interesting debate among the older and newer members their memories and what it meant to the people over the years. With regard to where the association is headed, 1,000 guilds is impressive to say the least. Is the ICA a 32 county organisation?
Mrs. Marie O’Toole
We are in 26 counties.
If one divides 26 counties into 1,000, effectively, the association is in all the big towns and smaller villages. In addition, the ICA has moved into the urban areas. Mrs. O'Toole is in Portmarnock where a new guild has been formed in recent years. I understand a new branch has been set up in Rathmines.
Mrs. Marie O’Toole
It is in Milltown.
This is an interesting development for the organisation. Volunteerism was dying rapidly in the Celtic tiger era and this is probably the greatest challenge facing society in general. Now more than ever, volunteerism and organisations are needed. In light of the challenges the ICA went through four years ago, what recommendations would it have for every town and village that has lost a sense of volunteerism? How does one reinvent this? The association might have some suggestions in this regard.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
I thank all the Deputies and Senators for their kind words and their understanding of the organisation. I am glad they have read the script. I did not get an opportunity to go through it because it is rather long and would have taken up a good deal of time. I trust the committee will taken on board our submission and our invitation to An Grianán stands. I realise many questions were put and I will hand over to Mr. O'Callaghan to address these. Before I do that, I point out that the ICA has been in urban areas since the 1930s and ICA involvement in cities is not new. In the 1930s the town associations were set up and they amalgamated.
Next year is the European year of the volunteer and I hope there will be a great resurgence of volunteerism in Ireland. The Special Olympics was a prime example of volunteerism in Ireland. Someone mentioned crafts. Next year is the year of the crafts. This is also the age of adult education.
Next year we will host the European area conference of the Associated Countrywomen of the World. We are among the 70 countries in the world affiliated to the Associated Countrywomen of the World. Lucy Franks, mentioned here earlier, was one of the founding sisters of that organisation in the 1930s. We are involved in various aspects and important issues in this area of Ireland. I sit on two boards. I am on a Teagasc education committee, which has few women. I am a director of Bord Bía, where there is a scarcity of women as well. Mrs. Wall is on the national rural water services committee and we are also on Aontas. We sit on these boards but there is an absence of women in these organisations and they seek greater representation.
I will hand over to Mr. O'Callaghan. Several issues were raised and I call on Mr. O'Callaghan to address them in sequence.
If you do not have the answers, you may forward them to the secretariat and they can be circulated to Members.
Mr. John O’Callaghan
I will answer the speakers in two ways and offer a quick synopsis. Ms O'Carroll is the chairperson of our policy committee and may wish to address some points raised which might be of interest to various Deputies. The points made on tourism are especially valid for this committee. Our invitation to An Grianán is open and we would be honoured were there a visit from an Oireachtas committee, especially at this time. We re-opened the walled garden, which had become overgrown, yesterday because it was the 100th anniversary of the incorporation of the association. On 30 November 1910 the ICA was incorporated as a society.
It is appropriate that the association is here today.
Mr. John O’Callaghan
We insisted on it, the weather did not stop us and, I assure the committee, it will never stop the ICA. We re-opened the walled garden and called it the centenary garden in An Grianán. It serves as another attraction for people to visit. The house at An Grianán was built in 1774, if not earlier, and is worthy of a visit in itself. The facilities are outstanding. No visitor to An Grianán fails to come away delighted. It educates adults in every facet. A lady indicated to me last night that, essentially, we are teaching people how to start their own business.
I am only in place for three months but I used to go to Baltry, near Termonfeckin, in my childhood, although I am from Cork originally. I met a lady there three times in the past three months. She is a widow raising her children. She maintains she cannot really get out and meet people because her day runs from dawn to dusk and she sleeps for rest. However, to use her own words, when she squirrels away enough money she telephones Ann Flanagan in An Grianán and goes there on a Friday. She says she is never alone when she is there. She has community and friendship and can do something of interest to her. She is keeping herself mentally capable and active and is enjoying her life as a result. In her dark moments, of which she has many, she can look at An Grianán and come there. For that reason alone, we are very proud of An Grianán.
We also had a horticultural college there, which was the first of its nature in the country and taught ladies before anyone considered doing so. Unfortunately, the views and decisions made caused it to close between 2000-02 which meant one third of the building was not being used. Various extensions were built between the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. In the past three months since I have taken this role we are reopening it. There were two strategies we could consider, one of which would examine what help we could get from governmental and other agencies, but that is not the ICA way. It decided to look to itself to see what it could do.
Through elbow grease, hard work and determination we are turning the building around foot by foot and square foot by square foot into metre by metre. Yesterday we announced the opening of four rooms in the college. In time the college will be reopened bit by bit. We would then like to talk to people, in particular those in tourism, about the uses to which it could be put.
We are in the history of Ireland. We have golf courses around us. Some 40% of the links courses of the world are in Ireland, something on which we do not capitalise. Some 40% are in Scotland and the other 20% in Great Britain. We have a facet of attraction in that fact alone which was supported by Stewart Cink when he won the Open Championship and was told he had to play in Ireland. We have to capitalise on that. There are two golf courses behind An Grianán and if we cannot attract golfers we have to ask ourselves a question.
On top of that, we are on the Boyne Valley which contains the history of Ireland over 6,000 years. One can base oneself in An Grianán and learn from it. We are in a house which was built in 1774; if one thinks about it nothing in America was built before 1774. Our attraction as a tourism hub, given our residential capacity, is phenomenal and we would love the advice of the committee which is why the invitation lies before it.
In regard to our policies, which operate on a membership basis, Ms O'Carroll has been doing good work on a committee and I invite her to highlight that.
Ms Mairead O’Carroll
In response to the issue raised by Deputy Upton and Senator Buttimer, our members have agreed on five key areas of policy, the first of which is health. Our main issue for this year is the National Breast Cancer Research Institute of Ireland and we will raise funds on its behalf. We have also spoken to Dr. Jean Holohan, who is CEO of the Irish Asthma Society and feel that it and the ICA can work very well together. Benecol has approached us about heart disease and the VHI has approached us about educating people about diabetes. We will work on many health issues and other people are happy to work with us.
Another of our policies is children's rights and the fate of missing children. We are very keen that the amber alert system be put into practice as soon as possible. In that respect, we have written to the Minister for Justice and Law Reform and copied the letter to the current Garda Commissioner, Mr. Fachtna Murphy. The ICA has members throughout the country and we feel we are a very good place to start for getting the amber alert system up and running.
On domestic violence and sexual violence against women, we had an excellent meeting with Ms Eimear Fisher from Cosc and feel that we can work together for our mutual benefit. We have also had meetings with the Immigrant Council of Ireland and we had its project co-ordinator, Nusha Yonkova, speak at a regional conference which we had two weeks ago in Cavan. We have invited Eimear Fisher to come to our next regional conference because such people can give much more detail on these issues to our members. When our members have good information we will get up and running.
On women in decision making, we have examined Senator Bacik's report and are interested in getting more women involved in decision making at local and national level if at all possible. We have also been asked to work on farm safety issues. As Mr. O'Callaghan said, it has been shown in Jutland that when women get on board men are much safer. Somebody passed a remark earlier that it is because women will nag their husbands into doing things properly. I wonder if this is our official permission to nag.
We have done a great deal of work in recent months since the ICA reinvented itself and is working under a new constitution. If we are missing anything or anybody can fill in bits of the jigsaw puzzle for us we would be delighted to talk to them. We are a nationwide group of women who are all happy to roll up their sleeves and help in any way possible, in particular issues which affect women.
Mrs. Marie O’Toole
I will answer one of the questions put to us about attracting young people. We have had quite a number of inquiries from them which came about as a result of a pilot programme shown on RTE, "ICA Bootcamp". It was funny and light-hearted. We do not make black pudding at An Grianán but it was one of the tests which was put to the young people concerned. The programme, for those who have not seen it, was about four young people who grew up in the Celtic tiger era and a throwaway society. The lesson from it could be to make do and mend.
The four young ladies were mentored by very strong ICA women. They made their own clothes and cooked their own food. They enjoyed it immensely because prior to that the ICA was an alien organisation and they did not know a thing about it. They got on and integrated very well and age was no barrier. A series is currently being filmed in An Grianán which will be shown in January on RTE 2 which is geared towards young people. The pilot was immensely successful and hope the series will be successful. After the pilot we were inundated with queries from young people who wanted to know how they could join the ICA. They want to know how to knit. It is about going back to basics. The recession has done us no harm at all.
Mrs. Gwendolyn Carter
We have done a very quick overview of what the ICA has been about but when one thinks about it when we did our reinvention and modernisation we had no money. We have now started to build ourselves up. We have a membership fee of just €50 a year and because we are doing so much voluntary work everything stems from that.
A great deal of work does not involve getting money; we are giving all the time and putting ourselves out there. We get no financial help from anyone, apart from a couple of grants we have received. We are doing all of the work for ourselves based on membership fees of €50 a year. The amount of work we achieve is phenomenal. When one mentions the ICA people say their mothers or aunts were in it and there is a great fondness for it. We have achieved a great deal on very little money.
We commend you on that.
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
Contrary to what people think, namely, that we are a dying organisation we are opening new guilds all the time. In recent months we have opened guilds in Clare, Donegal, Meath, Limerick, Leitrim, Waterford and Dublin, and many more are in the pipeline. The knitting and stitching show was on the RDS recently which our member attended. We get much interest and applications at such events. We work with people locally. Somebody asked about our future. We have a future. The organisation evolved over 100 years. We are now starting the next 100 years. There is always new blood joining the association and women helping women and helping communities. We have a place within the community and in Ireland and we will continue while we can. There are people coming after us who will do likewise. We followed great women who kept the organisation growing at hugely difficult times down through the century when the various decades brought different hardships for them. We intend to continue to build on what we have but we must to look to the future.
I thank the Chairman for facilitating this very important meeting. Since the marking of the ICA incorporation day yesterday it is even more significant. I understand that all of this report will be recorded.
It will be in the official record.
The historian in me is coming out. The appendix to the presentation, which is a short history of the ICA, states that the Society of the United Irishwomen changed its name to the Irish Countrywomen's Association, to avoid being associated with a subversive organisation at the time, the United Ireland Party; that was Fine Gael. I do not think it was a subversive organisation. There were some powerful ICA women, such as Catherine Browne, involved in Fine Gael at the time of setting it up and they called themselves the United Ireland Party. When recording it, perhaps that could be corrected.
I will certainly do that. In conclusion, it is appropriate-----
Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison
I thank Deputy Deenihan who, through a conversation I had with him in May or June, initiated our meeting here today. I acknowledge also the presence of Deputy John Cregan from my side of the country.
I apologise for being late but I was trying to be in two places at the one time. I welcome the President, Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison, and her colleagues. I heard Mr. John O'Callaghan's interview on RTE radio with Ms Mary Wilson which was enlightening. What I have heard today is also enlightening. The point has been made about the recession. The ICA is recession proof and, more than that, it has a role to play particularly when people begin to go back to basics. It is probable that we all lost our way in that respect through the Celtic tiger and we lost moral values. I am a greater supporter of the organisation and wish it well.
It is appropriate that the association would start its next 100 years by appearing before the joint committee. I hope those who come after you will be able to record that the first day of the second 100 years was celebrated in the Houses of the Oireachtas. I congratulate the association on all the work it has done on behalf of women. It is important to recognise that it is only since the 1970s that women have come to be recognised officially, many of whom are now on State boards. I thank the association for all the issues it raised such as health issues and it was the first organisation to become involved in adult education. It has clearly shown foresight and leadership and I wish it success for the future. I have no doubt the association will survive the next 100 years because it is a very determined and well-organised group. With its new CEO it can go from strength to strength. We have had a fairly comprehensive discussion. For your own benefit, I think you appreciate-----
I think Mr. John O'Callaghan would like to make a few comments.
Mr. John O’Callaghan
I wish to make a final statement. We had a large meeting of all our advisory presidents and otherwise of the various federations and as the Chairman said there are quite a few guilds and federations in the country. It was as if we had a spy from The Irish Times because last Saturday its front page basically stated our manifesto. While it was for Christmas, it made a point. It says:
We're embracing austerity with gusto. We're keeping the wolf from the door by not spending money on presents we can't afford. We're putting in time and giving gifts from the heart that we made ourselves. So switch on some festive music, break out the Christmas jumpers, and get the make and do. Check your favourite recipe book, cook up a storm for your friends, give some vouchers for jobs around the house, and recruit some helping hands to make presents for your nearest and dearest.
The entire magazine in The Irish Times continued in the same vein - this is what the ICA has been doing and will continue to do for hundreds of years.
On behalf of the committee I thank Mrs. Anne Maria Dennison, Mrs. Elizabeth Wall, Mrs. Gwendolyn Carter, Ms Mairead O'Carroll, Mrs. Marie O'Toole and Mr. John O'Callaghan for appearing before the committee.