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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TOURISM, CULTURE, SPORT, COMMUNITY, EQUALITY AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 12 Jan 2011

Budget 2010: Discussion with Departments of Tourism, Culture and Sport and Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs

I welcome the officials from the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport: Mr. Con Haugh, Secretary General; Mr. Paul Bates, assistant secretary general with responsibility for tourism; Mr. Niall Ó Donnchú, assistant secretary general with responsibility for arts, culture and film; Mr. Donagh Morgan, assistant secretary general with responsibility for sport; and Mr. John Kelly, finance officer.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We are conscious that the budget was tough for all Departments and Ministers. The Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport will be under great pressure to maintain the high level of services with less money available. However, I am confident that this can be done and I am anxious to hear how Mr. Haugh intends to achieve this objective. I invite Mr. Haugh to address the committee.

Mr. Con Haugh

I thank the committee for the invitation to attend this meeting. The total amount allocated for spending by the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport in 2011 is €382 million. This represents a 12% reduction on the 2010 Revised Estimate of €435 million. In addition, just over €10 million has been allocated to the National Gallery Vote, a reduction of 3% on its 2010 allocation. A further €8 million is available for spending in 2011 through carry-over of unspent capital in 2010, which means that a total of €400 million is available to support the tourism, culture and sport sectors this year.

The breakdown of the budget is that on the current expenditure side, the total provision, including the National Gallery Vote, is €296 million, a decrease of 7% compared to 2010. The capital expenditure provision is €96 million, a decrease of 24%, but when the carry-over of €8 million from 2010 is included, the capital budget is €104 million, which is a decrease of 18%. As outlined in the national recovery plan and the budget, the Department is contributing non-pay current expenditure savings of €17 million this year, including €4 million in administrative savings. These savings will come through reduced functions across the tourism, culture and sport sectors. In addition, payroll savings in the order of €5 million will be achieved.

For the administrative budget, an amount of just over €11 million is provided this year for the Department's administration costs, a decrease of 2% on the amount provided in 2010. Within this, the provision for salary costs for staff of the Department and the National Archives is €9.3 million with €1.7 million for non-pay administrative costs. The Department has made significant savings and efficiencies in administration costs in recent years. In 2008 the provision for non-pay administration costs was €3 million. These efficiencies have been achieved through the Department's efforts to keep costs to a minimum and by achieving better value in the procurement of contracts and services, including telephony and IT services. This year, further savings will be achieved in this area including pay related savings arising from a reduction in staff numbers as part implementation of an employment control framework. All agencies under the aegis of the Department will contribute administrative and pay savings in 2011.

Turning to the tourism budget, the overall provision for tourism services in 2011 is almost €148 million, a decrease of 3% on the 2010 provision. With its current funding allocation of €63.5 million, Fáilte Ireland will continue to focus its activities in 2011 to obtain maximum impact, including a continued concentration on developing the home holidays market, rolling out the enterprise support programmes to support the industry and vital jobs, developing key tourism destinations and continuing its support for the business tourism and other niche tourism sectors. Despite a decrease of 7% in the allocation, it is expected Fáilte Ireland will be able to achieve a similar impact in these areas as was achieved in 2010.

A further €25 million is provided for capital expenditure under the tourism product development scheme. This is an increase of 19% on the amount available in 2010 and will be used to develop and upgrade tourism attractions. More than €41 million is allocated to the tourism marketing fund in 2011, a decrease of 6% on the 2010 allocation. It is important to note that the level and value of investment in the core overseas marketing of Ireland by Tourism Ireland is being maintained, as recommended in the tourism renewal group framework for action and is consistent with the National Recovery Plan 2011-2014.

One of the significant changes announced in the budget that impacts on the tourism industry is the new rate of air travel tax. The Department welcomes the changes announced in the air travel tax, whereby a single revised rate of €3 will apply to all flights from 1 March 2011, on a temporary basis until the end of 2011. This important change in the rate of Ireland's air travel tax comes at a time when Germany and Austria are introducing a similar but higher rate of tax and UK rates are rising. Ireland's access position will be further assisted by the airport initiative package announced by the Dublin Airport Authority. These twin developments recognise the importance of tourism to Ireland's overall economic renewal and will help stabilise and grow overseas visitor numbers by leveraging the tax changes and the airport incentive package. They are in line with the tourism renewal implementation group's priority to pursue measures to restore and enhance access to overseas markets.

Business and other niche tourists will be an important part of the market in coming years. Central to this will be facilities such as the newly opened Convention Centre Dublin, which expects 82,000 international delegates to visit the centre over the next three years, with an estimated economic impact of €123 million. In addition, the opening in 2010 of the Aviva Stadium will make Dublin an attractive location for major international tournaments that have a significant tourism and commercial spin-off. This year the Aviva Stadium will host the final of the Europa Cup in May.

It is estimated that approximately 5.5 million visitors came to Ireland in 2010 with hugely positive benefits for the Irish economy. Tourism is a critical indigenous sector that sustains approximately 190,000 jobs throughout the country at all skill levels and generates €4.5 billion in earnings and well more than €1billion euro in taxes for the Exchequer. The Government recognises the importance of the sector and that is why strategies to support it feature prominently in the National Recovery Plan 2011-2014 and the strategy and action plan for trade, tourism and investment to 2015. It appears that the sharp fall in numbers in the first half of the year, which was badly affected by the volcanic ash disruption, slowed as the year went on. Tourism Ireland estimates that total overseas visitor numbers fell by 14% to 15%, with revenues falling slightly less. It is estimated that within the overall total numbers from Great Britain and continental Europe fell by around 17%, while the numbers from the higher spending North American market fell by 8% to 9% and numbers from other long haul markets are expected to show little change. The Department is confident that overseas tourist revenues and numbers will return to growth this year.

The supports and strategies are in place to see real tourism growth in 2011 and to ensure this momentum continues in the years to come. With the continued support of the industry and Government, overseas revenue and visitor numbers will return to a sustainable growth path. Clearly, there are a range of possible outcomes. Reflecting the current uncertainties, Tourism Ireland is targeting nominal growth in overseas revenues of 4.8% to 7.3%, based on growth in visitor numbers of 1.7% to 4.0%. The Department considers that achieving growth of at least 5% in overseas revenues, in real terms, and 4% in overseas trip numbers is a realistic ambition for Irish tourism.

Under the sports area of the Department's remit, there is provision for expenditure of €91.5 million in capital and current funding. This includes a carry-over of €5 million in capital for 2010. While the 2011 allocation for sport shows a decrease of 26% on the 2010 allocation, the reduction in real terms is much lower. There were some items of expenditure in 2010 which will not recur this year, including payments relating to the development of the Aviva Stadium at Lansdowne Road and a once-off allocation to the National Sports Campus Development Authority. In addition, the level of commitments under the sports capital programme and the local authority swimming pools programme are decreasing and a smaller allocation is required to meet commitments made under earlier rounds of the programmes up to and including 2008.

The amount allocated for the sports capital programme is €28 million with an additional €5 million carried over from 2010. The sports capital programme is the primary means of granting Government support for the provision of sports facilities at national, regional and local levels. Under the programme, the Department allocates funding to voluntary, sporting and community organisations for the provision of sports and recreational facilities. More than 7,400 projects have now benefited from sports capital funding since 1998, bringing the total allocation in that period to almost €740 million. Over the past 12 years, the programme has transformed the sporting landscape of Ireland with improvements in the quality and quantity of sporting facilities in every part of the country. The allocation of €28 million for the sports capital programme for 2011 will be sufficient to meet commitments arising from allocations made in earlier years. However, given the current budgetary situation and the high level of outstanding commitments, it was considered prudent to pause prior to announcing the next round of the programme and no date has been set for it.

The allocation for the local authority swimming pools programme this year is €6.65 million, which will allow us to meet existing commitments. The programme provides grant aid to a maximum of €3.8 million to local authorities for the construction of new and the refurbishment of existing local authority swimming pools. The current round of the programme was launched in 1999 and closed to applicants in July 2000. Since 2000, 58 projects have been or are being dealt with under the programme. Of the 48 projects which have been allocated grant aid, 46 have been completed and 12 are at various stages of the process. The current priority is to progress the remaining 12 projects included in the programme. Due to the current economic constraints no decision has been taken to launch a new round of funding in 2011.

The provision for the Irish Sports Council is almost €47 million. While this represents a decrease of 5% on the 2010 figure, it will still be sufficient to support the work of the council in maintaining existing programmes and building on recent progress in all areas, including local sports partnerships, Buntús, women in sport, older people in sport, youth field sports and the high performance programme. Since its establishment in 1999 to the end of 2010, the Irish Sports Council has received more than €400 million from the Department. I am pleased to say this substantial investment has allowed the council to develop strong structures and programmes which can be built on in the future. The council provides funding on an annual basis to the national governing bodies of sport, local sports partnerships, the international carding scheme and support for other sporting institutions including the Irish Institute of Sport and Coaching Ireland. It also supports the high performance strategy, the anti-doping programme, Go for Life, the Irish trade strategy and the code of ethics and research.

The National Sports Campus provision this year is just under €5 million, down from €7.8 million in 2010. An allocation of €3.5 million is provided for capital expenditure, which will primarily be used for the refurbishment of the former Marine Institute building as the new headquarters for the national governing bodies of sport.

The total provision for arts, culture and film is just under €150 million. This includes an allocation of more than €10 million for the National Gallery and the carry-over of €3 million, which will be used towards the funding of Culture Ireland's major year long season of contemporary Irish culture, entitled Imagine Ireland, which is taking place across the United States this year and which has recently been launched by the Minister. The priority for the national cultural institutions in 2011 is to maintain the exhibition programmes and front-of-house services to the public and tourists to ensure that what they offer continues to draw large numbers of visitors. Day-to-day funding for the national cultural institutions is maintained as close as possible to 2010 levels and capital funding has been allocated according to priority of need to ensure the safety and preservation of the national collections and the continued investment in high quality visitor experiences as part of an integrated cultural tourism drive.

The provision of €6 million for the Irish Museum of Modern Art, IMMA, will enable its diverse and challenging programme to continue in 2011. Provision is also included for touring and displaying the national collection at locations around the country and for the management of the collection. IMMA will celebrate its 20th anniversary in 2011 and it is hosting a series of special events and exhibitions to mark the occasion. Its allocation for 2011 includes a provision towards the anniversary programme.

There is a provision of €4.3 million for regional cultural venues and programmes in 2011. The priority for this year is to provide funding for venues, meet contractual commitments and fund projects which support cultural tourism. Investment in regional and smaller museums like Marsh's Library, the Hunt Museum, Science Gallery, the Print Museum, Foynes Flying Boat Museum, the James Joyce Centre and the Irish Architectural Archive will continue.

Measures costing approximately €100,000 to improve records' storage at the National Archives' two premises will also be funded under this heading. The Irish Manuscripts Commission will continue with its cost effective publication of primary sources. In addition, it will work in conjunction with the national cultural institutions to expand Ireland's cultural presence on the European web portal. Refining work on the 1901 and 1911 Census will be continued and the huge success of the site will be used to build tourism interest abroad. This year the National Archives will add a self-generated oral history element to the 1901-11 census website, with a working title of "The Living Census".

The internationally significant designation of Dublin as UNESCO city of literature will also be supported under this heading and the Department is working closely with Dublin City Council and the other key partners in that regard. The Department will also provide funding for the Dublin Contemporary 2011, an initiative which aims to make Dublin an internationally recognised and acclaimed contemporary art exhibition and event showcasing venue. This event will showcase leading and emerging Irish and international contemporary art across a number of landmark sites in Dublin city centre in September and October 2011. Funding is also being provided for Culture Night 2011 and Music Day, both of which were huge successes in 2010 from a tourism and public participation standpoint.

There is an allocation of €8.3 million for cultural infrastructure and development in 2011. This will allow for completion of the remaining projects approved for funding under the ACCESS and other capital initiatives. Under these programmes, projects as diverse the Wexford Festival Opera, Carlow Contemporary Arts, the Druid Theatre, integrated art centres, theatres, museums and galleries, as well as arts studios and other creative performance spaces, have been provided with funding. These programmes have been widely acknowledged as a significant intervention in the provision of quality cultural spaces throughout the country and will inevitably lead to increased participation by individuals and communities in the artistic and cultural life of the nation.

The 2011 allocation for Culture Ireland is just under €4 million, a decrease of just 2% on the 2010 figure. In 2011, Culture Ireland will continue to ensure the ongoing promotion of Irish artists worldwide with the aim of generating goodwill and influence for Ireland and highlighting the strength of Irish culture and creativity. This reflects the emphasis in the year since the Farmleigh global forum took place on the central role that Ireland's artistic and cultural strengths play in building our reputation globally, and on the benefits that flow for Irish trade and investment. By promoting strongly through these exceptionally difficult times, Culture Ireland aims to grow Ireland's global cultural market share and to further strengthen our cultural profile.

In 2010, Culture Ireland presented a programme of Irish-Chinese artistic collaborations in Shanghai as part of Ireland's award-winning participation in the World Expo there in partnership with the Department of the Taoiseach and the Office of Public Works. Expanding the strategic promotion of Irish arts at major international markets, Culture Ireland led national delegations for the first time to Womex, the World Music Expo in Copenhagen, and Tanzmesse, the European contemporary dance market in Düsseldorf. This momentum continues into 2011 as Culture Ireland launches Imagine Ireland, a year-long season showcase of contemporary Irish arts across the United States. This initiative celebrates Irish imagination, innovation and creativity in New York and other key cities and regions in partnership with the embassy, consulates and other State agencies. An additional €3 million is available for Culture Ireland in 2011 to meet costs associated with this initiative. As I noted earlier, this programme was launched last week by the Minister.

More than €65 million is provided for the Arts Council in 2011, a 5% decrease on the 2010 allocation. This level of funding is almost double the amount provided in 1998 and with this allocation, the council will be able to maintain broadly its major programmes and activities at 2010 levels. With the main budgetary emphasis on programming this will sustain the council's main arts organisations, keep regional venue programmes and support festivals and touring. The council supports more than 50 venues, approximately 200 festivals and 400 arts organisations and by supporting these areas the intention is to minimise job losses in communities across the country, directly in funded artists and organisations, and indirectly in the tourism sector and wider economy. It will also look to prevent such bodies from losing viability.

The National Museum's 2011 provision is €14 million. The treasury in the National Museum on Kildare Street will be reopened following renovation in 2011 and this will display the Fadden More Psalter, the conservation of which is nearing completion. The museum has now taken possession of its new storage facility in Swords, and the fitting out of this facility will be completed in 2011. This will address the long-standing problem of storage and collection management. The conservation of the Asgard I will also be completed in 2011 and this will be put on public display in Collins Barracks in time for the summer season.

More than €18 million is provided for the Irish Film Board this year, a decrease of 4% on the 2010 provision. The Irish Film Board continues with its key role of developing and supporting film production in Ireland and 80% of its budget is for investment purposes. This allocation for 2011 will facilitate it too in marketing Ireland as a film location and, in particular, in raising the profile of the Irish audiovisual industry abroad. This role has been carried out very successfully over the years and the Irish Film Board now has a key role at the heart of the new creative knowledge economy.

The capital funding provided by the Government to the Irish Film Board has ensured support to meet the demands of the industry in the areas of project and talent development, training and indigenous film and television production. The funding enables the board to fulfil its aim of sustained growth of the industry while increasing the number and quality of films produced in Ireland each year.

In tandem with supports from the film board, the Department's primary operational role in supporting the film sector relates to the administration of elements of the section 481 tax relief scheme. This scheme is kept under regular review in conjunction with the film board and any enhancements necessary to retain or regain competitiveness are addressed and brought to the attention of the Minister for Finance as appropriate. The scheme was amended and enhanced most recently in 2008 and these amendments extended the scheme until the end of 2012. In 2010, a total of 57 projects was approved for funding through section 481 with an Irish spend of €164.65 million. These 57 projects supported employment for crew, cast and extras of more than 10,000 individuals and had the effect of maintaining and creating jobs in a very difficult climate while at the same time maintaining a product that will help to sell Ireland abroad.

There has also been a cut of 3% to the Vote of the National Gallery but it will continue to focus on delivering the best service possible. This year will see work on the renovation of the historic wings of the gallery, beginning with the Dargan wing. This is a major development for the gallery. Although there is an obvious effect in terms of room closures, the gallery will make every effort to minimise the impact for visitors. The new and upgraded website will be a major help in this regard.

Final decisions relating to the allocation of budgets within agencies operating under the aegis of the Department are a matter for those agencies and their boards within overall policy for the sectors as set by the Government. As final decisions have not yet been taken by all the agencies on their plans for 2011, it is not possible at this stage to provide the committee with specific details of the full impact of the measures announced in the budget on the Department's activities. However, my colleagues and I will be happy to deal with any questions from the members of the committee.

It would be remiss of me not to express condolences on behalf of the Department to the Harte and McAreavey families on the tragic death of Michaela Harte. These are great sporting families which have enhanced our lives and sport, and our thoughts are with them at this sad time. The death has also taken place of a man called Joss Lynam, who for many years served the Department of Education and Science and national sports councils in the promotion of mountaineering. He was also involved in the national trails network of walking routes, making a significant contribution to tourism products. I express condolences to his family as well.

I thank Mr. Haugh for his very comprehensive statement. I will have a few questions but I ask colleagues from the various parties to make opening statements. I concur with Mr. Haugh in expressing our deepest sympathy on the loss of Michaela Harte to her family and husband. It is a tragic loss and I wish to be associated with those words of sympathy. Deputy Deenihan will open proceedings and may wish to put some questions. I propose to ask the spokesperson for each of the parties - Deputies Deenihan, Upton and Kennedy - to make a contribution. I am sure we will all have questions, which I will try to group.

I join the Chairman and Mr. Haugh in sympathising with the Harte and McAreavey families on their tragic loss. It has shocked the nation and not only the sporting fraternity. It is an unprecedented tragedy which shook everybody. I also recognise Mr. Joss Lynam, who was one of the great promoters of walking among outdoor activities. He was very much involved in campaigns over the years to keep Ireland open and he is also be a sad loss. He was very active right up to the end and made a major impact in sport for everyone in this country.

I welcome Mr. Haugh and his officials before the committee. He has worked for a long time in the Department of Education and Science and his current Department, having much contact with the Dáil over the past 30 years or more. I am sure everybody will join me in noting how accessible he has always been, at all times available to all parties when people wanted information or direction. I understand he will retire in February and there is no doubt that he will be a loss. I thank him for his co-operation and accessibility over the years. It is not true in every case of public servants but in his case, it was very true.

The difficulty is that we could question the Minister on policy but Mr. Haugh just implements departmental policy. He is in charge of allocating and spending the budget. The tourism marketing fund is more than €41 million this year. Does Mr. Haugh have any idea of the value received for that amount? I published a tourism policy last week and in the process I considered the marketing budgets of a number of countries in Europe, and the UK as a particular example. We spend €7 in marketing on every tourist coming to this country. We have one of the highest marketing budgets in Europe - I would like people to recognise that - but we do not get the same value as many other countries, as shown by the statistics. Will the delegates expand on that? Has there been any evaluation of the amount we put into marketing? Has the Department considered our marketing strategy abroad through Tourism Ireland, a company that represents the 32 counties of Ireland?

We have a unique system in that there are three different bodies in charge of tourism on this island. Tourism Ireland was set up to market Ireland abroad, although not necessarily to sell it. Fáilte Ireland sells Ireland within the country, but it also has a role in selling outdoor activities abroad, which is a cause for confusion. In addition, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board has a role in selling Northern Ireland. It is quite confusing. There must be close co-operation among all of these bodies if tourism is not to suffer. In the process of compiling the report, the feedback I got from many in the tourism industry - people who are really stretched at the moment - is that there does not seem to be such co-operation between the various agencies. I do not know whether it is the Department's responsibility but, as the lead Department, what has it been doing to ensure that these agencies work together? I have suggested that Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland should share a building, to be called Tourism House, and perhaps the Irish Tourist Industry Confederation, the Irish Hotels Federation and others could share the building as well. Currently, when a visitor comes to Dublin he or she must go to two different agencies to obtain tourist information, which is a problem.

In 2007, 8 million visitors came here. Measured in the same way, the 2010 figure was 5.5 million, which represents a drop of 2.5 million. That is a large reduction, and it has resulted in a major loss to the Exchequer. Not too long ago, there were 234,000 people working directly in Irish tourism; now there are 190,000. There must be some reason for this. I know the market is becoming very competitive. Even last year, as mentioned in the report, the number of British visitors to Ireland was down 17%, although the number of British tourists elsewhere in Europe fell by only 7%. Thus, we have lost a greater share of the UK market, which was always very lucrative, than other countries. I am sure those who are directly involved in tourism, such as Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú, could see that the number of people from the UK coming through Brú Ború in Cashel was much reduced, although they are particularly interested in Irish culture. I know it is not the direct responsibility of the delegates, but have they carried out any evaluation of why the UK market has worsened?

I have suggested that there should be greater interdepartmental co-operation and that the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport should be the lead Department. Are the various Departments pulled together in this regard? I am thinking particularly of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which has a major say in how clean the country is kept, the quality of water and so on. Our reputation with regard to litter is not very good. Does the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport ever pull together the other Departments to talk about tourism? One agency, the OPW, is in charge of all our icon projects. What is coming across from the tourism industry is that there are issues with access and time, and the fact that most of the projects are closed during the shoulder season can lead to problems. Perhaps the delegates would refer to this in their reply.

I will not mention sport - I will leave that to Deputy O'Mahony, who is our spokesperson on sport - but I will mention arts. One of our greatest achievements and one of the highlights of the year for the arts here and in the world was the designation of Dublin as a UNESCO city of literature. As a nation, we must capitalise more on this. If a tourist comes to Dublin for one day seeking a literary experience, he or she can go to the Irish Writers' Centre, which is operated by volunteers, and the Yeats exhibition in the National Library, but generally it is hard to have a literary experience in one day. Have the delegates considered the possibility, which I have mentioned before in this committee, of establishing a writers' centre in Dublin which not only celebrates Ireland's literary achievements from Swift to present-day contemporary writers, but also acts as a forum for modern writers? There is a cost factor, but an existing building could be obtained. There is a great opportunity there. I ask the Minister to consider places such as the Anglo Irish Bank headquarters, which may become available sooner rather than later. The old Bank of Ireland building in College Green could also be an appropriate site. We should consider the idea - which is not a grandiose one - of establishing a dedicated centre to celebrate the literary achievements of this country, which is one of our strongest assets in selling Ireland abroad. Internationally, people identify with our writers and our artists more than with our politicians, apart, perhaps, from Daniel O'Connell and a few others.

There were a few omissions in the presentation. They did not mention the National Concert Hall. There is a major proposal in this regard, with buildings acquired from UCD which have been vacated. The delegates might tell us something about the plans for the future.

I accept that funding for the Arts Council has risen substantially since 1998. When we were here discussing the Arts Bill six or seven years ago, the then Minister, Deputy John O'Donoghue, said that the aim was to raise the amount of funding to €100 million. Not too long ago it was up to €80 million, but now is it back to €65 million, and it was €69 million last year. There has been a reduction, and I recognise that there will be continuous reductions in the future. However, for such a small amount of funding we are getting very good value for money. It has been shown that for every euro spent on arts and culture we receive about €3 back. I know it is not up to the delegates to decide policy; they just distribute the money they get. However, in future, funding for the Arts Council should be protected as much as possible within the Department. This funding goes to all parts of Ireland - it is an even distribution of money - whereas most cultural institutions are in Dublin, so much of the budget is concentrated in Dublin.

I ask the Deputy to finish up as we have representatives of another Department coming in.

Of course. The last thing to which I refer is section 481. There should be an announcement. The Department need not say as much but production companies are planning films now for 2013 and I am keen to hear the Department's point of view and that there would be an early statement indicating this will continue after 2013.

I welcome the delegation and I thank Mr. Haugh for the presentation. I offer my sympathy to the Harte family on the death of Michaela. She is not only a great loss to her husband and family but as an ambassador for sport she was fabulous. This is a great loss. Joss Lynam is a name we all recognised and admired for a long time. I offer my sympathies to both families.

I wish to put some general questions first, dealing with expenditure within the Department and staffing. The action plan on the public service agreement states that 79 staff transferred to Killarney in January 2009. It further indicates this entailed a 90% staff turnover in two years. Does this mean the majority of the staff in the Killarney offices were new appointees? Will the Department elaborate on this point?

The Department indicated that the capital programmes in sport are not being re-opened this year. I will come back with a specific question on this. How are the people who were working on capital projects deployed now? What are they doing if there is no capital spend? I realise there is some carry-over from previous years in this area.

What is happening with the people who would have been involved in the management of the horse and greyhound fund, which has been transferred to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food? Have they been deployed within the Department of has there been a transfer to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food arising from the change of the allocation of the funding?

The level of co-operation between the Department, which is a key player in the three areas it represents, and others is important. Let us consider tourism. Several other agencies are involved in promoting Ireland abroad. What kind of active co-operation exists between the Department and Bord Bia, for example, which has an important role in the promotion of the food industry? We are pleased to see the agency doing well internationally. There may be opportunities in this area on which the Department could comment. The same is true when there is a tourism product but we are also marketing other agencies. Should there be a link between the promotion of the export product or agency?

What are the likely impacts of the cuts on the capacity of the arts institutions funded by the Department which engage with the public, especially those involved with children, young people, support for youth art, outreach in education and so on? Are they at risk because of the cuts in funding? Several reports have been produced on art in education including the Points of Alignment document. What interaction takes place between the Department and the Department of Education and Skills? Arts in education is important but we do not appear to be making great progress in terms of a commitment from the Department of Education and Skills. The Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport is the lead agency in this area. How will it promote this issue and ensure that arts in education is properly promoted?

Is the public service embargo impacting on the provision of arts? I put the question specifically with regard to children and youth work, an important area. This area must be supported because we are keen to refer to young people in education as representing the future of the country and so on. The same will be true of the arts. They are the future. We must ensure we invest heavily in arts in schools and in non-school areas for young people.

Video gaming is an area in the arts where there has been great developments and where there is great potential for the country. I realise it is not within the brief of the Department. However, there is a cultural aspect to the arts area, especially if we can link it to film. Are there any plans or is there a view that it should be brought in under the Department's remit? I understand it is with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation at present. The video gaming industry has been identified as one with vast potential. There are excellent qualified students and graduates coming from places such as the Ballyfermot College of Further Education. There have been successes in the Oscar awards and with the video gaming industry. This area should be identified and there is scope for it to be developed. Has the Department given any consideration to the equivalent of section 481 for the film industry?

Other questions have been put already and I do not intend to repeat them. However, the Department stated it is confident that overseas tourism revenues and numbers will return to growth this year. What indicators suggest this? What interventions will be needed to make this happen? It is a remarkably important area and tourism is now highlighted as one of our flagship industries in terms of creating employment.

Will the Department comment on the matter of Asian countries? I believe several barriers are in place. We have done relatively little in terms of considering the vast potential market in countries such as China and other Asian countries. Barriers such as visa problems exist and have been identified on a regular basis. A vast market exists which could be tapped into.

The Department indicated that it is considered prudent to pause prior to announcing the next round of the sports capital programme and no date has been set for the next round. Are there any indications that there might be some opportunity for re-opening the capital programme? Why was €8 million not spent and why has there been a carry-over? I understand further capital funding was not spent. Will the Department identify why that money was carried over and why it has not been spent up to now?

I wish to be associated with the Chairman's remarks on the death of Michaela Harte. I saw her often by her father's side in Croke Park breaking the Dubs' hearts, bar last year. It is a great loss because she was a great ambassador as people have said. Equally, I wish to be associated with the comments on Mr. Joss Lynam. I wish Mr. Hough well. He is leaving us after a long career and he can be proud of his contribution over many years. I thank him for his report.

Many questions have been asked but I wish to put some others. With regard to expanding tourism, while we have individual bodies, the Department is the executive body. A €4.5 billion turnover is substantial even if it is reduced from last year and previous years. It contributes remarkably to our economy. A total of 190,000 jobs is a substantial figure. This is one area in which there is great potential. How does the Department liaise with other Departments? How does the Department drive the tourism bodies? I refer specifically to the potential the London Olympics affords Ireland in terms of tourism numbers and in terms of foreign countries which will, hopefully, participate in pre-training here in Ireland.

Much reference has been made recently of a potential visit of the Queen of England. Does the Department liaise with the Department of Foreign Affairs and try to be proactive in this regard? A visit from the Queen of England would show us having matured as a country after the many problems we had with the British Empire over the years. In terms of winning British trade to Ireland, I heard recently that London has, I understand, 10 million visitors to see the changing of the guard.

It will happen in a few months time.

There will be a different changing of the guard. I am not looking forward to it. We have massive potential.

I refer to the travel tax. I welcome that it has been reduced from €10 to €3. The onus is now on Ryanair and Aer Lingus who campaigned actively to reduce it. Mr. Michael O'Leary of Ryanair said he would bring millions of people into the country if the travel tax was abolished or substantially reduced. What liaison does the Department have with Ryanair, Aer Lingus and other airlines in terms of putting it up to them to deliver on their promises? The income generated is approximately €100 million, which is substantial given our current general economic situation. It might be no harm for the committee to invite the airlines to come before it to discuss the issue because they said the €10 travel tax was impeding visitor numbers. Now that the situation has been remedied, let us put them to the test.

The capital programme was referred to. A small capital programme would do a great deal for the clubs and organisations around the country. We do not have to revert to the huge grants we gave in the past, comprising €200,000 or €250,000. A €25,000 grant would do much for many organisations around the country.

I will make a parochial comment about a local authority swimming pool. Mr. Haugh will be aware of the one I am interested in, namely, the Fingal County Council Balbriggan rugby club project which is in my constituency. I hope the money is still allocated for it in this year's funds. Issues are being addressed.

I ask Deputy John O'Mahony and Senator Paschal Mooney to make some brief remarks and I will do the same. I will then ask our colleagues to contribute.

Deputy Deenihan covered tourism. I wish to be associated with the sympathies offered. I am a personal friend of the Harte family and have been in touch with them. I join other members in offering my condolences. We can discuss the matter here but we can only imagine what the dreaded call from Mauritius was. The nation of sport and, in particular, GAA is in mourning with the Harte and McAreavey families today.

I have a few specific questions, some of which have been asked already, on sports capital funding. We are well aware that the programme has closed and the money which has been paid out in recent years was for existing applications. The delegation mentioned 7,400 projects. How many of those projects are waiting for payments or to draw down funding?

To follow from what Deputy Upton said about reopening the sports capital fund, was it suggested recently that should happen? Government Deputies had literature which referred to the fact that it had been reopened and that an announcement would be made shortly. Will the delegation confirm if there was a change since our European colleagues talked to us in recent weeks?

In looking at the figures for the national recovery plan and the budget, I note it is suggested that €370 million is to be spent on a capital programme over the next five years. My deduction is that only €50 million per annum will be available. There seems to be a suggestion that the swimming pool programme is closed, sports capital grants are no longer being given and that in future there may only be money for the Sports Council. Is that true? Like others I am convinced of the opportunities which can arise from spending money on sport and the amount of good it can do.

It was brought home to me even more when I saw the "Six One News" yesterday and saw Willie "Big Bang" Casey speaking about what sport has done for him. The two minutes during which he spoke was the most powerful statement I heard from anybody about sport in Ireland. He spoke about where he came from in Limerick and the Traveller community. If any of us said such things we might be accused of being racist but in terms of the importance of spending money on sport the man should be paid a fortune to convey the message to the rest of the country. It would solve many problems.

I have some more specific questions and will be brief as I know many people are waiting to speak. The National Sports Campus funding has been cut by 36% to €4.9 million. I raised the matter of the costs of a pending legal case with the Minister. She stated that the money would have to come from its funding. The case concerns the National Aquatic Centre and the figure involved is €6.7 million - other figures have put the cost above €7 million. What are the implications of the cost of the case for sports funding in Ireland? What level of subvention will be given to the National Aquatic Centre in 2011? What was it in 2010?

Does the 5% cut in Sports Council funding mean the money being paid to sports organisations will be cut? We are conscious of the Olympics in 2012 for elite athletes. Will the cut impact on their programmes? I note the national recovery plan refers to efficiencies and payroll savings. Will the cut be absorbed by administrative efficiencies within the Sports Council or have cuts been made to the wages of chief executives?

I again ask everybody to be as brief as possible. I will call on Senator Mooney and Deputies Feighan and Wall. I have one or two questions.

I wish to be associated with the remarks on the tragedy which has befallen the Harte and McAreavey families. Ar dheis dé go raibh a anam dilis.

I also wish to be associated with the remarks of Deputies Deenihan and Upton on the impending retirement of the Secretary General. It came as a surprise to me; I thought he would go on and on like the Chinese leaders for ever and ever. He will leave a very deep hole in the Department. I thank him for all his personal courtesies and professionalism across several decades and wish him and his family well on his retirement.

Free travel was not referred to in the report. The initiative was introduced last year and provided vouchers for old age pensioners across the European Union. What impact has that had? It was confined to rail travel. Was there any discussion in the Department about extending it to buses? The north-west, particularly Donegal, which has an over-reliance on tourism, has no rail stations at all and there is no rail network in Cavan or Monaghan. I appreciate that the private nature of bus travel may be a factor but the bus companies would respond to any approach made to extend the scheme to buses.

Deputy Upton mentioned the potential of the Asian market. Some of us are members of the Ireland-Taiwan Parliamentary Friendship Society, which is chaired by Deputy John Perry. I pay tribute to Deputy Perry for his persistence in ensuring the Government agreed recently to extend the visa waiver system to visitors from Taiwan. It operates already in Britain so the common travel area means this was a positive initiative by the Minister and the Department of Foreign Affairs. Anyone travelling from Taiwan, which has a population of 23 million and is an affluent country, who visits London can now travel to Ireland. As similar system should be put in place for the South Korean, Japanese and the growing Chinese markets. Tourism Ireland is focusing on the resurrection of the British market, because it is our most lucrative market, and the European and US markets. I have not yet been able to get any information on the marketing strategies in Asia, particularly now that there is a visa waiver system for Taiwan and I have no doubt similar waivers are being considered for other far eastern countries.

I endorse the comments about section 481 of the Finance Act, the tax incentive for film makers. This has been a huge success and it is a tribute to the Department officials that this has been protected and expanded. With film production companies needing a long lead-in time when planning locations, and the huge competition in the area, will the Department support an early decision to extend the incentive beyond 2012?

I have been in correspondence with Mr. Michael O'Leary about his public pronouncements that if the travel tax was abolished, he would bring 6 million extra visitors to Ireland. There is a caveat to that commitment that has not received as much publicity; he also wants to see the abolition of the Dublin Airport Authority and the breaking up of the current operation to allow Cork, Shannon and Dublin to operate separately. That is a step too far but I strongly endorse the request that Mr. Michael O'Leary be invited before the committee so we could get clarity on what he is doing. He has been a pioneer in inexpensive travel and I respect and support him but in this instance he has been playing to his own agenda and it is not in the best interests of Irish tourism. If he can deliver the 6 million tourists, let him do it. The other areas do not have any direct impact on him.

I thank the Department for the presentation. It is at the vanguard of the revival of our tourism industry. I compliment Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland. They are doing an impossible job in very difficult circumstances but are still managing to come with these figures.

I also express my sympathies to the Harte family. Across Ireland and the world, it has brought home the horrors of what happened to a young girl on her honeymoon and has affected the sporting community North and South.

When the Government introduced the travel tax, did the Department make representations about the damage it might do to the tourism industry? Was there correspondence with the Department of Finance? It has caused untold damage. The decision was ludicrous and thankfully the Government has now rowed back on it. The €3 is probably still too high. We are an island economy and we want tourists to come here but this priced us out of the market.

According to the Department's figures, it expects 82,000 people to come to the new convention centre in the next three years with an economic impact of €123 million. That works out at €1,500 per guest. We lost the guts of €1 billion in tourism revenue last year because fewer tourists visited Ireland and most of that was because of the travel tax and high costs. We cannot allow that to happen again. Did the Department correspond with the Department of Finance? If not, it was a major oversight.

The sports capital grant includes an additional €5 million from 2010. Is that because an election is due or did the Department not spend enough last year?

I also wish to be associated with the remarks about the Harte and Lynam families and those families who lost loved ones in Limerick as well. I also wish Mr. Con Haugh well on his retirement and thank him for the work he has done for us all over the long period of service he has given.

St. Patrick's Day is famous for ministerial visits. There is something to be gained from them and they should be developed as much as possible. What preparatory work goes into those visits? I recall tabling parliamentary questions to follow up on such events. Numerous Ministers certainly appeared to put in an effort while others did not appear to follow through. Are there any developments in regard to State visits or international sporting occasions? What mechanism is in place to ensure Ireland gets its just reward from such visits?

In regard to sports capital grants, has any project been stalled given that the local contribution has not come up to the mark due to problems with the banks and so on. If any such project has been stalled is there a mechanism in place to ensure the project reaches fruition?

Curirim Fáilte roimh an toscaireacht. Níl aon amhras ná gur chuir na finnéithe ráiteas thar a bheith cuimsitheach agus cabhrach os ár gcomhair. Tacaím freisin leis an rún comhbhróin do mhuintir Harte. Tá siad ar fad inár bpaidreacha agus inár smaointe.

I wish the Secretary General, Mr. Con Haugh, a happy and fruitful retirement. I am sure he will use the well-deserved opportunity to engage further with the cultural richness of his native county and I hope he enjoys every minute. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan set the tone for us today in many ways as he has often done in our discussions in this committee, particularly in regard to the service given by the Department. He is right about accessibility. We could go a step further and say it keeps a close ear to the ground which is helpful when one wants to decentralise resources. It seems to be aware of every activity that has taken place in every corner of Ireland. Many Departments could take a lead from it in that regard.

We have been very fortunate with the policies on which we have placed emphasis, the arts, cultural tourism and on sport because these are areas to which we have exclusive rights. In other words, the things we have are exclusive and, for that reason, it gives us a head start in the market. We should not lack confidence because of the challenges due to the economic downturn. Anybody familiar with the challenges we faced during the Northern Ireland troubles will realise what real challenges were. At the time, Bord Fáilte would have undertaken a huge marketing campaign which would be disrupted by a serious incident, and it would have to try to salvage what it could from it. The challenges today are not as serious as those challenges for a number of reasons - first, because of the investments which have been made, second, because of the infrastructure which exists and, third, because we realise we have to watch competitiveness. At the end of the day competitiveness will be the answer to our difficulties. There are small experiences that we all have in life that tell us we are liked by the global family. That is a huge asset in itself for many reasons.

We never colonised another country and we were always acknowledged for giving, whether it was through our legislators or others. I will relate one small experience, while acknowledging the necessity for brevity. A famous actor, by the name of Charlie Haid, played the role of Sergeant Renko in the Hill Street Blues - only people of a certain age will remember this. He came to a small local fleadh cheol in Golden, County Tipperary, and enjoyed the intimacy of that experience. He started to play the tin whistle and kept in touch with me after that. When Ricky Skaggs, the well-known singer, was coming to the Ireland on that occasion and appearing in the National Stadium, he telephoned and asked if I would take him to the Cultúrlann and introduce him to the Irish traditional musicians where they could exchange views on the blues and traditional music and so on. The reason I mention this is that one can multiply that by thousands of experiences but it is very difficult to quantify that in a report. They will not always get the credit for having developed the right environment but they are the things we need to watch.

An example is in the catering business. I am not critical of the visitors to this country who went into the catering business; we needed them. However, we also need the Irish people in the catering business because of their attitude, humour and so on. Our strength is in our traditions, attitudes and in the people themselves. Our main opportunity to go forward is through co-operation and partnership. I was delighted with the debate today because we were not looking for scapegoats, we were merely pointing out our strengths and how we would bring cohesion to those strengths.

I ask the Chairman, if possible, to have another meeting specifically on this issue to allow for an opportunity to go into more detail. I thank the Department for all the support it has given to us down through the years.

I am pleased with the debate. It is a mixture of debate, comments and suggestions that have been put to Mr. Con Haugh and his officials. This committee has always played a constructive role and we have done that again today. Some specific questions have been put.

I pay tribute to Mr. Con Haugh on his new life ahead. There is no such thing as retirement. In my experience as a politician since the late 1980s Mr. Haugh has been ever present in his Department and was totally committed and dedicated to his work. This was obvious across party lines. As is correct in his position, he has been supportive of all of us here. I wish him well.

Senator Ó Murchú has rightly pointed to the positive developments - the infrastructure, to which Mr. Haugh referred, which has been built up over many years. His opening remarks were comprehensive. He mentioned the National Convention Centre and the Aviva Stadium. We all know the history of the National Convention Centre and have lobbied for same for many years. Many members have referred to its potential and the economic benefits it will bring to this country. Moving from the macro to the micro in regard to our constituencies, I shy away from mentioning my constituency, but coming back to what Deputy O'Mahony said in regard to the boxing community, the Department provides great support to individuals in the various sectors.

In the various constituencies, the sports capital programme has given fantastic support to GAA clubs, soccer clubs, rugby clubs, athletic clubs and swimming pools. We were lucky to get many of these projects through in the good times. They are in place and provide huge benefits. Deputy Kennedy has one particular project on which we will support him. I can see the benefits of the last scheme in my area, Meadowbrook swimming pool. I used to live beside it. When teaching I took my pupils to the old pool. The new swimming pool is a fantastic facility. We want the capital programme and swimming pool programme rolled on as soon as possible by whoever will head this Department in the years ahead.

Another area I have promoted since my election as chairman of the committee is general fitness in the wider community. This is a theme that has been strongly supported by members of the committee. When money is scarce it is important to look at the wider community and the whole area of fitness and well-being, especially for our children in schools. I have mentioned this time and again to the Irish Sports Council. Tremendous work is being done, such as the walk-to-school programmes on Wednesdays. I have visited many schools in my own area where I have seen this in action. Young children just love these schemes. All they need is leadership across the community, including from the Minister and the Department through to the various agencies involved. There is huge interest in walking, in particular, not just at the level of children but at all ages. All of this, including hill walking, is connected to tourism. Will Mr. Haugh comment on this?

I echo the views expressed about the 2012 Olympic Games. How are we doing in attracting athletes from various countries to this country to train in preparation for the games? As Mr. Haugh and his officials might be aware, we travelled to Cuba and New York to promote sports and received a very good response from the sports authorities in Cuba, in particular, with regard to some of its athletes coming here. I urge Mr. Haugh to pursue this aspect.

We also travelled to New York to promote tourism and the film industry, which brings me to the section 481 tax relief for the film industry. We pushed it as hard as we could with industry representatives in New York and I would support an extension beyond 2012. Incidentally, we spoke to Mr. Niall O'Dowd in New York and I wish to mention an issue he raised, although it is not precisely in Mr. Haugh's remit. In welcoming the new rate of air travel tax he made a practical suggestion which I have mentioned to various people since we returned from that visit. Flights from New York to Ireland leave during the night. He made the point that if they took place during the day, they would be more children and family-friendly. It is a practical point. When we are making a huge drive to promote tourism, Mr. Haugh should convey this suggestion. The Department of Transport is also involved in the matter.

There has been a cut of 5% in the funding allocation for the Arts Council. However, we are in a very strong position. It is said the arts thrive in recessionary times. This is probably true, given that people have time to reflect a little more and there is a greater sense of identity, creativity and community. There is a wealth of artistic talent and creativity in this country. However, we are also aware of the economic benefits, a point that has been well made by my colleagues on the committee. The Department is taking the right route in promoting Ireland abroad and I wish the delegates well in that endeavour.

Those are the positives. There is another practical matter on which I am not necessarily seeking a detailed comment from Mr. Haugh, if he wishes to comment on it at all. The committee has been pursuing an issue relating to the cost of the Irish Sports Council and so forth. Mr. Haugh mentioned that the amount of taxpayers' money given to the Irish Sports Council from 1999 to 2010 was €400 million, a great deal of money. We have been trying to clean the slate, as it were, with regard to some of the ongoing disputes and I believe members will agree that we are making good progress. It is my objective to have this issue dealt with before I leave as Chairman or the end of this Dáil. Mr. Haugh is aware of the case as it has been well rehearsed and the committee is meeting the Tánaiste, Deputy Coughlan, next week. We are doing good work on behalf of the taxpayer in that regard. We simply wish to find out what went wrong in some of these cases and, in particular, the cost of disputes. We are pursuing the issue and would appreciate any support Mr. Hough could give us in that regard. There are some tremendous things happening in the athletics world and the high performance programme is working very well. There are fantastic opportunities as a result of the good work done by the Department and various Ministers. While are anxious for this to proceed, it is important to clean the slate with regard to these disputes. The most significant event recently was the appointment of Mr. Kieran Mulvey as chairman of the Irish Sports Council. He has appeared before the committee and we were all very impressed by his approach. We wish to move forward on this issue, but we equally wish to clear the air on the disputes. We have asked a specific question about the costs involved and would appreciate any support the delegates could give us.

I again thank Mr. Haugh for his comprehensive report which contained much positive news. I wish the delegates, especially Mr. Haugh, well in the years ahead.

Mr. Con Haugh

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for their best wishes. In a few weeks I will have been in the public service for 43 years; therefore, it is time to pack the bag and get out. I wish members of the committee who have indicated that they wish to move to new pastures every success in that regard.

They might have no choice.

Mr. Con Haugh

The Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport values the work of the committee. Certainly, in the past couple of years its work has been of tremendous benefit to us in examining issues related to sport. The committee kept us on our toes on the various issues it dealt with and with the clarity of its thinking. It influenced and helped us, as well as the Minister, in dealing with many of the issues raised.

My colleagues and I will deal with the questions raised. Although it is a relatively small Department with 109 staff, we regard ourselves as being pivotal in the overall scheme of public administration. We like to think we punch above our weight. Looking at the achievements across all sectors, we believe we perform well. Let us take the examples of sport and the arts. The facilities now available throughout the country are second to none. It was a barren landscape a number of years ago when people who played sport had to change behind a wall in many cases. That is no longer the case.

The sports capital programme is demand-driven in so far as allocations are made and there is then a requirement on the bodies which receive the money to comply with the terms of the scheme. Each year we have an amount of money in the pot. The allocation for this year is €28 million, with a €5 million carryover. If the organisations do not comply with the terms of the programme, we cannot pay out the money. We have a close working relationship with all of the sports bodies which receive moneys. We help and encourage them. While there is a sunset clause in the programme to withdraw grants if progress has not been made after a period of 18 months, we have seldom invoked it. We recognise that, by and large, sports bodies are composed of voluntary personnel. However, with the transfer of responsibility for horses and dogs, we have been a little more energetic, not using any type of machete approach but by encouraging people to move ahead. We recognise there are challenges, but we wish to support them.

That €5 million has been carried over has nothing to do with the fact that there will be an election. That does not enter our minds. It is because the level of demand from the organisations was not sufficient to draw down all of our budget for the year. If money is not spent, it is carried over. That is a policy decision which will be taken by the Minister who has been addressing the matter for a while, but, as of today, no decision has been taken on it.

There was reference to issues regarding Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland. Members will be aware that Tourism Ireland was established under the Good Friday Agreement between Ireland and Northern Ireland. There is a close working relationship between Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland. In fact, the chief executive of Fáilte Ireland is a member of the Tourism Ireland board and the Minister, with a view to enhancing or increasing co-operation between the agencies, has arranged for the chief executive of Tourism Ireland to act as an observer at board meetings of Fáilte Ireland. That will bring greater unity of purpose, which is not to say there was not good co-operation in the past. However, anything done to enhance co-operation must be welcomed.

The Department sees itself as having a key role in influencing the activities of other Departments in the promotion of the tourism sector. The tourism renewal implementation group which met in 2008 and 2009 would have, as part of its work, engaged with all of the Departments with a role in tourism promotion. Its report included a number of recommendations to be acted upon by the Department and other Departments. The Minister chairs the implementation group and nothing focuses the mind more for public servants than having to parade in front of a Minister and answer for what they have done in meeting commitments made. There have been three meetings of that group over the past four months and significant progress has been made.

Somebody mentioned the role of the OPW. We acknowledge the key role of the OPW in this. Already a meeting has been held with the senior management in the OPW.

Issues to do with visas, and so on, have been raised. There is good work going on between Tourism Ireland, Fáilte Ireland, ourselves and the Department of Justice and Law Reform and its agencies with a view to dealing with perceived issues relating to visas for India and China. I am sure that later this year there will be significant progress announced in that area. India and China have potential in the context of the tourism numbers and this is why there is particular emphasis on that.

Deputy Upton referred to the public service embargo which is biting every Department in so far as staff who resign or retire cannot be replaced without making an extenuating case to the Department of Finance. The vast majority of staff working for the Department in Killarney transferred from other Departments. When our Department was selected for decentralisation, approximately a half-dozen staff based in Dublin indicated that they wanted to transfer to Killarney. Subsequently, maybe one or two of them did. Therefore, staff from other Departments applied to come in and the staff in the Department left. Because it was phased in over several years and we managed it carefully and put in place training programmes for the new staff, while we lost an amount of folk memory, I am fairly satisfied that the staff we have taken in are up to speed on the issues, the culture of the Department and the way we operate. Unfortunately, that is one of the issues we face with decentralisation.

The position on Arts Council funding is that there has been roughly a 5% or 6% decrease in the Arts Council budget in recent years. This year the cut is 5%. If there are reducing budgets for agencies, they will impact on programmes. We have told the agencies to ensure that they make adjustments in non-programme activities initially. The Arts Council has not been hit any harder than any other agency.

On the swimming pool programme, 46 new pools were opened over the ten year period. There are 12 pools currently at various stages, including the pool for Balbriggan, Skerries or wherever it is. We are in liaison with Fingal County Council on moving that ahead.

Returning to Deputy Upton's question, he can take it that there is nobody in Killarney scratching themselves or not working. We have a tight number of staff in the Department - 109. Certainly, all of them are working fairly flat-out.

Deputy O'Mahony asked how many projects await payment. At the end of 2010, the overhang on the sports capital programme was of the order of €77 million. If every project was to complete its requirements for payment, €77 million is the amount of money that we will need to clear off the existing programme. We also have a programme of withdrawals, on which we are working as well. In any year there would probably be of the order of €2 million, €3 million or €4 million withdrawn from organisations which would have received grants for years.

On the sports campus, the Minister indicated in the Dáil that the issue of legal costs is still being finalised. As far as are concerned, this was heard and decided on by the Supreme Court and we do not propose to revisit it other than to try to deal with it in consultation with the authority.

On sports council issues, the Minister expects that the sports council would adhere to the best corporate governance. The Minister, in appointing the new chairman recently and in respect of new members that were appointed over the past 12 months, indicated strongly that legal action should be the last resort. Nevertheless, at the end of the day the sports council also has responsibility for public funds and must deal efficiently with those issues. We hope the issues to do with that particular case are now put to bed.

I will hand over to one of my colleagues, Mr. Ó Donnchú, to speak about section 481 while I look at some of our other notes.

Mr. Niall Ó Donnchú

A number of the Deputies and the Chairman raised the section 481 tax relief provision. We are acutely aware of the importance of this provision for the sector. Some 57 projects were approved for section 481 funding in 2010 with spending in Ireland of €164.6 million. That contrasts with 44 projects in 2009 and ensuing spending of €106 million, which is a 64% increase in a 12 month period.

We spent many years working to improve this tax incentive to make us competitive internationally. It is one of a number of things that we have going for us in the film sector. The film and television production sector, to whom the incentive is available, is performing strongly at present. That is acknowledged in the number of international peer awards. It is worth noting that two Irish short films have now been short-listed for the Oscars in 2011 - "Shoe" produced by Mr. Nick Kelly, whom the Chairman will know from the music industry; and "The Crush" - and they are supported by the film board. That is an expression of the quality of the product as well.

We are acutely conscious of the importance of section 481 tax relief for the sector. It has another 24 months under the current extension. Ultimately, extending the benefit is a matter for the Minister for Finance and we certainly will not be slow in highlighting the importance of that provision to the Minister.

While I have the floor, Deputy Deenihan's point on the city of literature is well made. It is a city designation by UNESCO, one of four globally, and it is hugely important. Already, there is anecdotal evidence, for instance, from the work of our colleagues in tourism in Ireland and Fáilte Ireland, on the amount of interest this is generating from cultural tourists internationally. We worked closely with our colleagues in Dublin City Council in winning this designation and drafting the plan and the pitch for it. In the highlights section of the city of literature website, one will find that it is not Dublin centric. It promotes, among others, the Ennis Book Club Festival which is scheduled for March this year, the Cúirt Festival in Galway, the Strokestown International Poetry Festival in County Roscommon, the Listowel Writers' Week, the Lismore Festival of Travel Writing as well as the Trim Swift Festival and the Annual Patrick Kavanagh Poetry Weekend in Inniskeen in County Monaghan. Dublin lays claim to Kavanagh as well.

Deputy Deenihan's point is well made. We are working closely with our colleagues in the national cultural institutions, with Dublin City Council and with a number of the writers' organisations to look at how we can leverage the value of that designation. If one wants to experience the writing capacities of this island, it is about not just a centre and bricks and mortar, but experiencing the ambience of a city or a part of the country that inspired that writing in the first instance. The points are well made and there are a number of proposals we are looking at in that context.

I will respond to a point made about the National Concert Hall. The National Concert Hall public private partnership process was led on behalf of the Department by the National Development Finance Agency. In November last, as has been announced, that process was brought to an end on the grounds of affordability. We are not in a position to go into that further here because the feedback process is under way with the bidders which were involved. I really cannot get into it further at this stage. I would like to be more helpful to the committee but those are the grounds on which the PPP process was brought to an end.

The National Concert Hall performed extremely strongly last year, as did the other national cultural institutions. In respect of Deputy Upton's point, we are awaiting final figures on visitor numbers to the national cultural institutions for 2010. Our estimates place these numbers north of 3.2 million, which is a record. The National Museum was a mere 7,000 visitors short of the 1 million mark, which is a remarkable achievement. The national cultural institutions and the staff within them have been performing extremely well, even in the teeth of reductions in personnel numbers and so forth.

I thank Mr. Ó Donnchú for his reply. I welcome what he had to say regarding the UNESCO city of literature. The committee is very much aware of the value of festivals across all sorts of artistic areas and to towns and villages throughout the country. I ask that everyone who contributes from now on should be as brief as possible.

Mr. Paul Bates

Deputy Deenihan inquired about an evaluation of the effectiveness of marketing expenditure. As he is aware, this is quite a difficult subject to address. The best form of evaluation is that which is independent in nature. A survey was carried out by the World Economic Forum in 2009 which assessed, under its travel and competitiveness index, the effectiveness of tourism marketing and branding. Ireland was placed eighth out of 133 destinations in that survey, which is a good independent testimony to the effectiveness of marketing.

Through our oversight process, we insist on regular reviews by Tourism Ireland of the effectiveness of its marketing activities across the major markets. Those reviews are carried out in partnership with the industry. Any new approaches which those in the industry want adopted are injected via that process. A survey of travellers is conducted each year and this shows that 11% of people who visited Ireland were influenced by advertisements relating to this country which they saw on television and that 14% were influenced by literature produced by Fáilte Ireland. We spend €44.25 million on marketing under the tourism marketing fund and if one relates this to overseas revenue earnings, one will see that even if the marketing is only 1% effective, it more than pays its way in the context of returns.

Deputy Upton referred to co-operation in respect of overseas marketing activity with Bord Bia, etc. in the context of the international marketing effort. All those issues are dealt with under the trade, tourism and investment strategy that was launched last September. Tourism Ireland, the relevant Departments, Bord Bia, Enterprise Ireland, etc., participated in the production of the strategy. An entire programme is being put in place on foot of the strategy and this is designed to up our game in the context of the promotion of Ireland abroad in a joined-up manner. Some of the Deputy's concerns in respect of that matter are addressed in the strategy.

The Chairman referred to the airlines. That is a matter which we can raise with the relevant carriers. I am of the view that this all relates to the logistics involved in scheduling flights. Obviously, if one travels abroad, one must return. People tend either to fly at night and return in the daytime or vice versa. It is all about the way that-----

It is all about which size one favours.

Mr. Paul Bates

Exactly. A number of speakers referred to the air travel tax. It is important to understand that the Minister and the Department were extremely active in the debate on this matter. Obviously, taxation is a policy issue. Our Minister was actively involved in presenting the tourism case to the Minister for Finance in respect of the desirability of making modifications to the air travel tax. We were pleased with the outcome in that regard.

Mr. Donagh Morgan

The Secretary General dealt with most of the points raised in respect of sport. Deputy O'Mahony inquired specifically about the level of subvention to the National Aquatic Centre. The National Sports Campus Development Authority provides up to €1.03 million to the centre per annum. That will be the figure for 2011. We urge those involved to try to mediate this amount to the greatest degree possible. Members may be aware that a study benchmarking the National Aquatic Centre against similar facilities throughout Europe was carried out. This found that they all operate with a subsidy. The numbers relating to the National Aquatic Centre have maintained strength. It is the fourth most visited public centre in the country.

Does the National Sports Campus Development Authority pay the subvention?

Mr. Donagh Morgan

Correct.

In the context of the reduction in the grant to €4.9 million, as Mr. Haugh stated, we do not need to revisit the issues, the advice that was provided, etc. We can pursue that matter with the Minister at a later date. What impact will the payment of legal fees have on the money available for sport? If €1.03 million is to be paid to the National Aquatic Centre and if there is a legal bill of €6.7 million or whatever, from where will all the necessary funding come?

Mr. Donagh Morgan

As the Deputy is aware, there has been a series of legal cases in respect of the National Sports Campus Development Authority and the National Aquatic Centre. Only one of these cases remains outstanding and that involves the level of legal costs arising on foot of the VAT issue relating to the National Aquatic Centre. We do not know what that figure will be but it certainly will not run into the millions. The legal advice we have received indicates that it is more likely to run into hundreds of thousands. We are awaiting a determination on this matter from the Supreme Court. The Deputy is correct to state that the money will fall to be paid by the National Sports Campus Development Authority from funds provided to it by the Department.

This is not the time for disputing the legal costs. The information available to me-----

Mr. Donagh Morgan

I would be happy to discuss the detail of the legal costs at any time with the Deputy if he so desires.

I thank Mr. Morgan.

I was just about to suggest that. We have not had time to deal with all the issues raised. If members wish to raise individual issues with our guests following the meeting, I am sure Mr. Haugh and his colleagues would have no difficulty accommodating them.

Mr. Con Haugh

Absolutely.

My final question relates to the 5% reduction in the grant to the Irish Sports Council to which I referred earlier. How will this be absorbed? Is there any indication that some or all of this may be absorbed in the context of administrative efficiencies in order that payments to bodies, etc., will not be too adversely affected? I accept that the issue of grants to GAA players relates to the Irish Sports Council. The reduction in this regard last year was 71%. In what areas can savings be made in order that there will be a limited impact on the level of payments issued by the Irish Sports Council?

Mr. Donagh Morgan

We have tried to keep the reductions relating to the Irish Sports Council and the Arts Council to a minimum. We have done reasonably well to limit the reduction in the Irish Sports Council's grant to 5%. The council is in the process of formulating its budgets for 2011 and is quite conscious of the point made by the Deputy. It has made a policy decision to the effect that, as we move towards the 2012 Olympics in London, the high performance programme will not be affected and will be maintained at current levels. The council is subject to the same restrictions as those which apply to the Department in the context of staff savings and cutbacks. Inevitably, there will be an impact on the national governing bodies. They will try to minimise this as much as possible.

The Deputy also referred to the reduction in the GPA grant. It is important to highlight that the GPA is a players' union, not a national governing body.

It has been fully absorbed into the GAA.

Mr. Donagh Morgan

It is fully absorbed into the GAA and the GAA authorities have always said, in fairness to them, that player welfare is a matter for themselves and they take that very much on board.

The Sports Council will not necessarily apply an arbitrary 5% cut across the national governing bodies. It will certainly look at those that can best sustain that and the smaller bodies that best need to be supported.

We are up against the clock. Will Mr. Haugh sum up?

Mr. Con Haugh

In the context of the budgets for our Department for 2011, all our agencies are particularly satisfied with the level of adjustments being made, especially in the current time of austerity, and they certainly conveyed to the Minister their appreciation for the work she did at the Cabinet in ensuring our sector, which often can be hit more seriously than others, would not take an inordinate adjustment. Cuts mean pain. Those of us who played sport know every time one gets cut, there is pain. It is as much the case that, financially, there is a little pain but, nevertheless, that will be managed efficiently by the agencies.

I regret we do not have more time but I thank the officials for attending. We had a good discussion.

Sitting suspended at 4.02 p.m. and resumed at 4.05 p.m.

We will now discuss the effect of the measures in this year's budget on the activities of the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs. I welcome the Department officials: - Mr. Seosamh Ó hAghmaill, Secretary General; Ms Kathleen Stack, assistant secretary in charge of finance; Mr. Colm Treanor, principal officer and head of finance; and Mr. Trevor Donnelly, assistant principal officer and deputy head of finance.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to effect that where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I invite Mr. Ó hAghmaill to address the committee.

Mr. Seosamh Ó hAghmaill

Is mian liom mo bhuíochas a chur in iúl arís as ucht an deis seo a fháil ráiteas gairid a dhéanamh anseo inniu nuair atá scrúdú á dhéanamh ag an gcomhchoiste ar éifeacht na gcéimeanna a ghlacadh sa chaináisnéis i mí na Nollag 2010 ar ghníomhaíochtai na Ranna sa bhliain 2011.

By way of background, Members will be aware that in March 2010, as part of a restructuring of Departments and agencies, the following changes in responsibility took effect. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs became the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs, social inclusion policy and family policy moved to the Department from the Department of Social Protection, equality, disability, integration and human rights moved to the Department from the Department of Justice and Law Reform, and responsibility for the rural social scheme and the community services programme transferred from the Department to the Department of Social Protection. These changes mean that the Department has significantly grown and it now has some 380 staff, located mainly in offices in Dublin, Tubbercurry, Na Forbacha, Portlaoise and Roscrea.

It may be helpful were I to update the committee briefly on the core areas of the Department and the relevant funding for those areas, as announced in the recent budget. The core areas are developing communities, tackling drug misuse, rural development, Gaeltacht and islands development, promotion and maintenance of the Irish language, North-South co-operation, and equality, disability and other services.

The overall allocation for 2011 under the developing communities subhead will be €80 million. While the reduction of 16% will impact upon programmes, the Department will continue to place the primary emphasis on the prioritisation of front-line services and supports to customers and beneficiaries at the expense of administration, overheads and ancillary costs. The Department has taken steps to initiate a structured dialogue with the community and voluntary sector with the aim, inter alia, of ensuring the impacts of any budgetary adjustments to the services provided by the sector are minimised as far as possible. To this end, the Department is working with the sector to achieve greater consolidation, co-ordination and efficiencies among service providers. The 2011 allocation, while reduced, will continue to facilitate supports for communities through the local and community development programme, volunteering initiatives, the seniors alert scheme and the funding scheme for national community and voluntary organisations.

With regard to tackling drug misuse, a provision of €33.79 million is being made available in the context of the National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016. Of this, €32.79 million is current expenditure, with the remaining €1 million available for capital projects. While this funding will allow for a significant number of projects in local and regional drugs task forces to be maintained, the effect of the reduction may result in the scaling back of some projects. The scope for new initiatives will be limited. Small savings will need to be made to the 480 or so community-based projects now being funded though the local and regional drugs task forces. Front-line services provided by the drugs projects should not be adversely affected as the required adjustment in this area is approximately 1%.

The 2011 allocation for rural development will be €67 million and will provide for increased investment in the rural economy. Significantly advancing the roll-out of the Leader programme will be a key priority for the Department in 2011, and this is reflected in a substantially increased allocation for the programme this year. The programme will continue to play a key role in enhancing the economic potential of the rural economy and in creating jobs and improving the quality of life in rural areas.

On Gaeltacht and islands development, funding of €40.025 million is being provided for the Gaeltacht in 2011. This includes an overall allocation of €19.6 million for Údarás na Gaeltachta to enable it to continue its work. Capital funding of €12.2 million, plus the allocation to Údarás na Gaeltachta, is being provided for the Gaeltacht and islands in 2011 to contribute to infrastructural development for offshore islands and the Gaeltacht. A further €5.7 million in current expenditure is being provided to enable the continued support of lifeline access services for island communities. While there will be reduced funding for existing schemes and services in the Gaeltacht, there will be an increased emphasis on targeting resources on the area of language planning in the context of the 20 year strategy for the Irish language. Substantive discussions will take place shortly with Údarás na Gaeltachta regarding its future role in the context of the strategy.

While there will also be reduced funding for existing schemes and services in respect of promotion and maintenance of the Irish language, there will, as in the case of the Gaeltacht, be an increased emphasis on targeting resources on Irish language planning in the context of the 20 year strategy for the Irish language. The funding available will allow for continued support for Irish language programmes, to promote Irish as living language outside the Gaeltacht and to help develop a cadre of qualified people to meet requirements in relation to the use of Irish as a working language at EU level. The provision will also facilitate the operations of An Coimisinéir Teanga.

On North-South co-operation, the Department co-funds two North-South implementation bodies, Waterways Ireland and An Foras Teanga, comprising Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster Scots Agency. The 2011 funding for these bodies is indicative only and will be subject to the approval of the North-South Ministerial Council in due course. The Department remains committed to supporting these bodies and to exploring ways of increasing the level of North-South co-operation across the full range of activities for which it has responsibility.

On equality, disability and other services, funding of €56 million will be made available to support measures relating to equality, diversity and disability during 2011. A key priority will be to advance and oversee the implementation of the national disability strategy. While some of the reductions being made will result in the scaling back of some grant schemes, it is anticipated that much of the required savings can be achieved through efficiencies in administration and overhead costs.

On administration, the relevant subhead shows an increased allocation of 15% over the 2010 Estimate. This essentially relates to the transfer of some 150 additional staff to the Department following its reconfiguration during 2010. The 2010 Estimates figure shown in the budget estimates volume did not factor in the effect of this restructuring nor the administration economies that have been achieved separately within the 2011 allocation.

I am pleased to expand on any of these areas to the extent possible, taking account of the fact that the Revised Estimates volume for 2011 has not yet been published. Is mian liom mo bhuíochas a chur in iúl arís as an deis seo a fháil an ráiteas tosaigh seo a chur i láthair an chomhchoiste.

I now invite Members to make their comments and ask questions. We will group questions, following which the witnesses can respond.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an tUasal Ó hAghmaill go Teach Laighin agus roimh an gComhchoiste um Ghnóthaí Turasóireachta, Cultúir, Spóirt, Pobail, Comhionnanais agus Gaeltachta. Tá ardmheas agam ar an Roinn agus i rith an tsamhraidh thug mé cuairt ar oifigí na Ranna timpeall na tíre. Tá obair mhaith á dhéanamh iontu.

The adjustment in respect of tackling drug misuse is 1%. I am concerned that while the funding will allow for a significant number of projects to be maintained, some projects may be scaled back. Given the explosion of drug misuse in every town, village and rural community, does Mr. Ó hAghmaill believe enough is being done in terms of enforcement to tackle the scourge of drug misuse? While the drugs task forces have done a great deal of work, from what I hearing it appears there are many turf wars among the them. Perhaps it is time to examine how effectively these task forces are utilising resources. I am concerned that much of the funding going to the drug task forces is not getting to the front line. Perhaps Mr. Ó hAghmaill will comment on that.

On North-South co-operation, I have huge respect for Waterways Ireland which has done a good job, in particular in my area in terms of the Ballinamore-Ballyconnell canal links to the Shannon. It may be time we considered giving that body more autonomy. I accept that the Department's work in this regard falls between jurisdictions. It is time these areas were marketed.

The funding provided for promotion and maintenance of the Irish language is aspirational. Perhaps Mr. Ó hAghmaill will elaborate on what is to be done, in terms of thinking outside the box, to increase the number of people speaking the Irish language from more than 80,000 to 250,000 during the lifetime of the 20 year strategy. I would be delighted to see this achieved. People like me could perhaps be targeted. Currently, academics and people from the Gaeltacht area are being targeted.

The figure for administration shows an increase of 15% over the 2010 allocation. Mr. Ó hAghmaill stated this relates to the transfer of 150 staff to the Department. The increase is quite high and perhaps Mr. Ó hAghmaill will also comment on that.

I welcome the Secretary General and his officials to the meeting. We are obviously facing into a difficult year in terms of community development and tackling drug misuse. My question to the Secretary General relates to the overall efficiency of the Department in terms of how the work done in its offices at Dublin, Tubbercurry, Na Forbacha, Portlaoise and Roscrea gels together. I support decentralisation, from which my home town of Athy has benefited. In supporting it, however,we need to be assured efficiencies have not been lost within Departments as a result. I am interested in hearing from the Secretary General the position in that regard.

Mr. Ó hAghmaill might, if he has the figures, give members a breakdown of the core areas of the Department. For instance, are the 150 additional staff allocated to the equality section or are they divided up?

On the development of communities-----

Would Deputy Wall allow Senator Ó Murchú to ask a brief question as he must leave to attend a vote in the Seanad?

Caithfidh mé imeacht le haghaidh an vóta mar caithfimid a bheith cúramach faoi na huimhreacha na laethanta seo. Cuirim fáilte arís roimh an tArd Rúnaí, an leas rúnaí agus na hoifigigh eile agus gabhaim buíochas leo as an ráiteas a cuireadh os ár gcomhair. The Department now has a huge portfolio and the amount of work it must do has been extended. At one time we would have been looking at this Department in the context of the Gaeltacht and Gaelige. We have moved way beyond that at this stage. I would like to take up Deputy Feighan's point on the drugs issue. I presume many people present saw the television programme last night on the ongoing turf wars within the drugs industry, if we can call it that. My first thoughts go to the Garda Síochána who are in the front line. One message that came out of last night's television programme was that there should be no acquiescence towards the drug culture here. We must be very wary even of people coming forward to start pushing the door open a little on soft drugs. Much of that push comes from role models who often have a significant impact on people. We must be cautious always to ensure we have some method of responding to this push. I know this is not easy, because often the role models have the media at their disposal whereas a concrete response from the Department does not get the same coverage. Having watched last night's programme, it is clear we should not acquiesce to pushing the door open.

I to compliment the Department on the role it played in the production of the 20-year strategy on the Irish language. The strategy is the most encouraging movement I have seen for a long time. When the various organisations came in to meet this committee I felt the consultations we had with them were precisely what was needed. When we went to Connemara, we met and consulted in excess of 30 organisations. Apart from producing the strategy, the consultations and meetings helped give us a feel for precisely what was happening on the ground, particularly through the interaction with so many groups. We also got the opportunity to listen closely to the views and vision of those groups to see how we could coalesce those with the policy. I was delighted that this was a cross-party policy as I had hoped for years that we could have a cross-party approach to the Irish language. I have always felt that the language does not belong to any political party but to the people. There is significant goodwill towards the language which is different from the attitude in the 1960s and 1970s. It is important that we respond to that goodwill and the strategy provides a way of doing that. Money should not always be the priority. There is an attitude of mind when it comes to language and it is that attitude we must consider. We must examine how we can use what is happening in education and the good will that exists. The Department has been A1 in the manner in which it has co-operated in bringing about the strategy. We are all proud that this committee played a significant role also.

There is concern about cutbacks with regard to the development of communities. The nature of the community development programme is that it is localised and cutbacks are seen to mean job losses. I would be among the first to accept that the Department has been in dialogue with the programme personnel on this issue and has done its best for the programmes. However, people are still concerned and the various groups are anxious to meet us to find out what can be done. How does the delegation feel about this? I have raised this issue with the Minister in the Dáil and he said his door is always open. The Secretary General and Ms Stack have always been available to discuss the issues, but that does not reduce the concerns. I do not know how we can get over that. Is the Department confident that the allocation of the €80 million will be enough to keep the community development programme active?

I see the community development programme as vital, particularly in the context of the other issue raised by the Secretary General, namely, tackling the drugs problem. Community development is vital in helping overcome the drugs problem and must be part and parcel of the debate on this. If the community development programmes are undermined or unsatisfactory, we will probably suffer further from a major drugs problem. Deputy Feighan and Senator Ó Murchú pointed out that drugs are our major problem. When I first entered the Dáíl, the drug problem was in Dublin, but now it is in every village and town. I would like to see priority given to the education of the public on the dangers of all types of drugs. When Deputy Curran had responsibility for this area, I asked him to include the dangers of alcohol in the drugs strategy. We must talk to as many people as we can to try and ensure education in this area is provided. National groups should also consider what they can do to help provide this education. If we educate people on the dangers, demand will drop and we will start winning.

If we just concentrate on the regional drugs task forces, we are reacting rather than being proactive on the prevention of drug abuse. If we develop education programmes and reduce the demand for drugs, we will make progress. If instead we consider the second stage and develop methadone and treatment centres, we will surrender ground. That would be a mistake. I hope the €32 million provided in current expenditure will be considered for improving education on drugs, especially for young school children, and secondary and university students who are prone to falling into the net. If they fall into drug use, their families are then drawn in and sometimes their communities. We must try to prevent this. The first step in the growth of the drugs problem is an increase in demand for drugs. This is happening, particularly in third level institutions, where because of the wide geographical spread of the institutions more people from country areas are becoming involved and bringing the drug problem to their rural area. I hope some of the moneys provided will be used to do something with regard to addressing the two major factors in the spread of the drug problem.

There is a capital project, but current expenditure should be used to fight the problems on the ground. That is what we want and the Garda will do the rest. Gardaí have been doing wonderful work and no one can take that from them. They have done excellent work in trying to reduce supply, but that will always be a battle. Being honest, we would admit that we doubt we will ever see the end of supply, but that is no reflection on the Garda. There is such money involved in the sale of drugs that there will always be someone there to replace those people taken out of the system by the Garda. However, I hope that any of the cuts made will not cause further problems. We must do what we can do to ensure that.

What does the Secretary General feel about the Leader programme and rural development and is he satisfied we are moving in the right direction with the various Leader groups? What does the Department think of the various groups? Is there a common denominator? If, for instance, Cill Dara Teoranta had a very good idea, is there a mechanism for this to be passed on to the wider circle of Leader groups so that other Leader groups could benefit from it? Is it possible that groups are working in isolation from each other on ideas for creating employment? Two members of staff who work with me, my secretary and my political assistant, are members of this group and I am familiar with the group's ideas. Have groups in Cork, for instance, more ideas, which could be shared with other groups? I am concerned that we might lose out by not taking the opportunity to spread the good word among Leader groups.

Senator Ó Murchú and Deputy Feighan have covered the issue of the Irish language. I have a question about the equality and disability services. What has been the effect on the Department of the transfer of these services? I am aware it was the Taoiseach's decision to transfer the services. Was it the right decision? I am not being political in asking that question but rather I am asking about the provision of these services by the Department which are so important for developing communities at this time. The more efficient the Department, the better it will be for the development of communities and for the provision of opportunities for young people. A budget of €56 million is attached to that group of services. Did the services for equality and disability have the same budget when under the auspices of the other Department?

I thank the departmental officials for their help. This is a challenging Department with many things going for it. In many instances it is not a case of money but rather it is to do with providing communities with the resources to improve their own facilities. The old word, meitheal, has never been more apposite than now.

I thank Deputy Wall. My apologies to everyone concerned and to the officials because of time limitations at this meeting as we are up against the Taoiseach's statement and votes in the House. I echo the comments made by my colleague. This committee has done a great deal of work on the community and voluntary sector. I will be interested to hear the views of the Department on how the 16% reduction will impact upon the sector. I emphasise the committee's interest in tackling drug abuse. I note that front line services provided by the drugs projects should not be adversely affected as a required adjustment in this area is approximately 1%. I ask for more details on this aspect. The Secretary General will be aware of the committee's work on the 20-year plan for the Irish language. I ask for some brief comments on the funding for the Irish language.

As someone who has been aware of many efforts in the past to reorganise Departments and bring in new sections into Departments, I am interested to hear the Secretary General's views on how the new area of responsibility for equality, disability, integration and human rights, has been working within the Department, for instance, with regard to personnel, funding and how it has been integrated into the Department. In my time as a Minister, I saw how some transitions worked better than others. The committee will be talking to the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White, at a future meeting.

Mr. Seosamh Ó hÁghmaill

I acknowledge the positive comments from members which are much appreciated. I am aware of the time constraints but I will be pleased to follow up on any queries. We are always available to return to a further meeting if the committee wishes.

I will deal with the points in the order in which they arose. A number of members, including the Chairman, spoke about drugs. There has been a reduction in the budgetary allocation and the 1.2% refers to the current allocation for 2010 as against the current allocation for 2011, amounting to about €390,000 of a reduction. It is spread across many task forces. When some of the capital is included, the overall reduction increases to about 2%. Effectively, it has been protected as much as the Minister was able to achieve in the circumstances. It is something the groups will have to deal with. We have been in contact with all the groups. We have asked that front line services be always protected as much as possible. I am not saying there will not be an impact but it is noted that efficiencies can be found when one does not have the money. New ways of doing things have to be considered or it may be necessary to stop doing things.

The total number of projects is 480 and we see those being maintained. It is a decision for the groups if some projects have come to a natural end. There may be some adjustments. The Department is trying to deal with all these aspects within the framework of the national drugs strategy. We take on board the concerns expressed by members. We all realise this is a national problem. As Deputy Wall said, it was a Dublin problem at one stage but now there is not a parish in the country which is free of drugs, either in a parish or not very far away. The Government view on this problem is to try to deal with it in a structured way by means of the five pillars of the strategy. We try to deal with aspects such as education which is acknowledged to be important. It is a case of trying to get the various players around the table to work with them. The Department interacts very directly with the task forces. The statutory bodies come together and I refer to the input from the Garda Síochána, the HSE and other big players.

Part of the problem is that the situation is changing. Heroin was a problem several years ago. The example of the head shops is a good example of a problem that came almost out of nowhere and was suddenly a major national concern. Without patting ourselves on the back, the structures we had in place allowed the key players such as this Department and the Departments of Justice and Law Reform, and Health and Children, the Office of the Attorney General, to come together quickly and to make a decision, put a proposal to Government and put a provision in place to criminalise the activity. This had a very positive effect and within a very short time, the problem had reduced significantly. This shows that actions can be taken if people work together and this was the case with regard to the head shops.

The Department's aim is to co-ordinate the work and to prioritise issues. I take the point that some groups are better than others and are able to deal more efficiently with problems than others. The new strategies and the amended structures have been in place for a while. As the year goes on, we must consider whether we are doing this in the best way possible. For example, we must ascertain whether there are better ways in which to channel funding. We will keep all this in the picture and will try to work with it but I acknowledge it is a big problem.

The Garda was mentioned earlier and I have to hand a note about drug seizures. The number of such seizures has actually been falling since the middle of 2008. There are all sorts of possible reasons for this, one of them being that there may be more money to be made at present out of cigarette smuggling or trafficking and so on. The Garda appears to consider that the supply of drugs is decreasing. I acknowledge this can change and it remains a major problem which I do not seek to downsize and which must be kept high on the agenda.

On the Irish language front, I first wish to acknowledge the role of the joint committee in the strategy and the work it put into it. All the feedback to the Department undoubtedly was good and positive and groups throughout the country, as well as people in the Gaeltacht and so on were pleased to get the opportunity to talk directly with the joint committee. Senator Ó Murchú mentioned previously a point that also has been made by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs to the effect that this joint committee helped to bring about strong cross-party support for the strategy. I believe this will be one of its key points, in that the existence of such broad support across parties will allow it to continue into the future. Certainly, many of the groups with which we deal strongly perceive this to be a highly positive point. Clearly, the strategy is highly challenging and contains some very ambitious targets. Deputy Feighan mentioned the proposal to grow the numbers and this will be highly challenging. The strategy contains much material about opportunity, goodwill and so on and the point we make is that one can try to harness it, as the atmosphere around the Irish language has changed considerably in recent years. Many positive things are happening and there is much positive stuff in respect of young people on which the Department is trying to work.

When money is being cut, it is easy to glibly state that money is not everything but I acknowledge money is quite important with regard to much of the strategy's contents. However, the challenge for the Department in the coming period is to get its own act in order as to how it intends to bring this forward. Ultimately we are civil servants who must find a way to work within the administrative system and there are some very important and alliances on which we must work. The Department of Education and Skills is absolutely crucial in this regard and the strategy contains a considerable number of important proposals that, if initiated, will not need money. In addition, we must bring forward proposals on legislation because the manner in which the Gaeltacht is defined and so on will be extremely important, as will the manner in which the proposed network of Gaeltachtaí outside the old formal Gaeltacht are to be dealt with. Similar questions arise in respect of how we work out what will be the functions and exact role of the proposed new Gaeltacht and Irish language authority and how it will interact with this Department, with Foras na Gaeilge and with the sector itself.

Much work in this regard must be done quickly and I have outlined some of the key points. We will put proposals to the Minister in the context of the Revised Estimates Volume, REV, which is coming up over the next month or so, about some of the funding decisions to be made and linking them closely with the strategy's contents. As officials, our perspective is that when making proposals on various ways to spend the money this year, we will try to ask whether this will promote the strategy or what part thereof it will promote. This is a matter on which we must focus closely.

The administration costs look very high. A total of 150 staff have come into the Department, which constitutes a major increase from our perspective. The functions that left the Department resulted in the transfer to the Department of Social Protection of €100 million, more or less, from our Vote but only ten staff. On the other side of the equation, the funding that came into the Department was a lot less but the number of staff was a lot greater. Without going into too much detail, although I can provide the joint committee with more detail if it wishes, some of the staff are civil servants of the Department who have been placed in agencies such as the Equality Authority or the Equality Tribunal and this may explain some of this cost.

I will turn to the area of community development, where I acknowledge the cut is a bit bigger. For example, the community and local development side faces a cut of approximately 6%. We are talking to groups and much of the concern mentioned by Deputy Wall has been tied up with the integration process that we have been bringing forward between the community development projects, the integrated companies and so on. Obviously this has been a difficult process. It has been difficult for those who may have been working in a particular system for 20 years in respect of how things will change. They are afraid of losing their independence, their effectiveness and the programmes they have built up and I acknowledge such concerns. We have been trying to enter into dialogue with them wherever that can be done. In addition, we have tried to bring them in a more structured way into discussions that we now are having on an ongoing basis with Pobal, the sector in general and so on, in order that they form part of the broader picture. In general terms, there were approximately 160 community development programmes, of which we sought to fully integrate approximately 95. We have done so for approximately 75 at present and are in talks with the remaining 20 to ascertain whether we can get them over the line this month. Of the rest, members probably are aware that some are in slightly different spaces. They are coming together as groups, whereby the women's groups are coming together and so on and this work is ongoing. While the 6% reduction is quite difficult, we are engaged in discussions to try to ascertain how much of that can come out of administration costs or through efficiencies or better ways of doing work and business than had obtained previously. I believe that in the coming days or week, we will be in a position to signal more clearly to the groups exactly what this will mean for their allocations this year. I am hopeful they will be able to deal with that.

I can give the Secretary General two or three more minutes.

Mr. Seosamh Ó hÁghmaill

I am unsure on which points members might wish me to focus. As for the Leader programme, the funding for it this year has been increased by 40%. We secured an expenditure of approximately €44 million last year and there is an allocation of €62 million this year. We still need to increase this programme because there is a big target to be met in this regard. The Department is working with the groups to ascertain what we can do to assist. I note the problem with credit still remains in respect of getting matching funding and so on. The Department supports the Irish Local Development Network, on which ideas are to be shared, and also has various subgroups that meet. In addition, we are engaged in discussions at present with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation on trying to achieve better tie-ins with county enterprise boards and so on. Overall, I believe I have covered a fair amount.

If anything remains outstanding, members will feel free to contact the Secretary General and to deal directly with the relevant person.

The Secretary General should respond regarding the overall width of the Department's functions.

Yes, he should comment on how the new responsibilities are working out.

Mr. Seosamh Ó hÁghmaill

On the ground, it genuinely is working out well. The people have integrated very well and most of the new people who came in are located in our main Dublin office in Mespil Road, which has been of assistance. We have been obliged to find where the functions link together and we all have been quite struck by the existence of some seriously important linkages. We were doing a lot of work on this matter while drawing up a draft statement of strategy, which we were obliged to do in the latter part of last year and without going into too much detail, much of what we have been doing in recent years has been to facilitate and support the community. While the new functions do not directly support the community, many of them pertain to removing barriers for those who wish to participate in the community, if I can put it that way. When one is considering issues like equality and disability, one looks at matters like legislation and programmes that help people to participate in the community. We are trying to work our way into that. We see many lines of convergence between the efforts that were mentioned by Ms Stack, such as the family policy and social inclusion work that has come in, and much of the work we are doing in the community and voluntary sector and in the community development area. They are closely aligned. One of the things we have found is the various groups that come in are supporting the same organisations in the sector in different ways - in small ways or large ways. There has already been a great deal of convergence. I am not saying it is not a challenge. There is a lot of work to be done. We are working to develop a rationale for how all of this should hang together. The Croke Park agreement is forcing us to look closely at how we are doing our business in various areas. We are examining whether there are better ways of pulling some of this together. That is part of what we will be trying to do over the next period. It is already happening. We are moving some things around and bringing some things together. I think we will be developing that as time goes by.

On behalf of the committee, I sincerely thank Mr. Ó hÁghmaill, Ms Stack, Mr. Treanor and Mr. Donnelly for their attendance. I regret that we did not have much more time to talk to them. They came to this forum willingly at our request. In the short time available today, they covered many issues. I wish them well. The Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs is an important Department. We are aware of the great deal of good work that goes on in it. The wider public is sometimes not aware of that work. We wish the officials well with it. We are encouraged by what they have said about the Department's new responsibilities. The delegates described how well the responsibilities are gelling together, which is an important point. We thank them for their favourable comments on the work we have done on the 20-year plan for the Irish language. We are proud of that work. We went about it with the precise objective of bringing all parties on board and getting out to meet the people on the ground. That is it for today. We have other commitments because there are many things happening in the Oireachtas today. I thank the witnesses for coming in at short notice.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.55 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 19 January 2011.
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