The next item on the agenda is a discussion with representatives of Chambers Ireland on the transport users survey 2005. I welcome Mr. Seán Murphy, director of policy; and Ms Jessica Dempsey, policy and research adviser. I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the joint committee have absolute privilege, but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the parliamentary practice that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the House or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I propose that we hear a short presentation from Mr. Murphy, which will be followed by a question and answer session. Is that agreed? Agreed.
Transport Users Survey 2005: Presentation.
Mr. Seán Murphy
We greatly appreciate the time given by the joint committee. I recognise this survey was undertaken in 2005, so time has moved on a little in the intervening period, and some of the perceptions of the respondents may well have changed because much of the planned infrastructure has come on stream in that period. There are numbers I would like to go through, and they should not take long. The survey covered 600 business people around Ireland and was regionally dispersed, with 75 per EU Nomerclature of Territorial Units for Statistics, NUTS, region. The three subjects covered were surface, air and port travel.
I will outline the ultimate priorities of the overall survey. In the context of traffic congestion, 71% of businesses experienced negative effects, which would be logical. Some 51% had lost working hours due to traffic congestion, and the average loss of working hours per individual response was approximately six hours per month, almost a day of work. With regard to satisfaction with roads, with the caveat that much road infrastructure has come on stream in the past ten or 12 months that has transformed the infrastructure, 40% were dissatisfied with national roads and more than 70% were dissatisfied with non-national roads. The perception issue may well arise in this respect.
Public transport is clearly a core issue now. Less than a third of Dublin commuters use public transport to go to work. This impacts upon our traffic infrastructure as a result. More than half, 56%, use it for leisure activities, which shows there is a pent-up demand for public transport if it is provided properly. In the mid west and midlands, the usage level is down to 12% and 11%. There is an issue with regard to the services available there. Some 86% of respondents agreed that competition for public transport should be increased. This is the voice of the business community.
In the context of passenger satisfaction with rail and Government investments therein, 52% of passengers are dissatisfied with the services currently in place. Some 37%, at that time, were unhappy with Government investments. Rail accounts for 3% of haulage costs in Ireland, which gives an indication of the priorities for the business community and where services should be upgraded. Of those expressing an opinion, 44% were dissatisfied with Government investment in freight rail and 46% believed roads should be prioritised. When respondents were asked what the priority for investment should be, that came through clearly.
Turning to airports, exporting firms send 19% of their goods by air, and more than 20% of firms are happy with Government investments in airports. Some 49% use the London Heathrow slots for their connections, which underlines the importance of Heathrow slots as a national asset for our airline connectivity. This is related to the role Heathrow plays with regard to our output of flights across the world. There is demand for more flights to the US and Asia. In the period since this survey has been undertaken we have had additional connections, via Gulf Air, to the Persian Gulf and on to Asia. There is a pent-up demand in that area.
With regard to the Dublin Port tunnel, the numbers relating to its success are split, and there is a concern over whether it will deliver what is promised with regard to relieving traffic congestion in the Dublin Bay area. When respondents were asked what infrastructural project would most benefit business in Ireland the improvement of roads was most popular at 46%, next was improvement of the rail system at 11%.
On long-term planning, the business respondents were asked about Ireland's connectivity to Britain and continental Europe. Some 74% indicated that a tunnel link between Ireland and continental Europe, in the next 50 years, would be a good thing. Arising from this, we believe Ireland can retain control of its economic destiny by creating an infrastructure which will aid Ireland in becoming the principal port in Europe. This will not happen soon but increasingly ships are becoming too large for the Panama Canal — Mitsui, a Japanese shipping firm, has just spent $1 billion commissioning 12 such ships. The English Channel will not accommodate their girth in the long term and as these ships are commissioned, Ireland could plan a high speed rail link to Europe via a tunnel which would allow Ireland be a European entrepôt for these enormous ships. They will be limited in size only by the width of the Malacca Straits, the link between Asia and Europe. If we are to be visionary and control our destiny we must consider our infrastructural planning around the Tuskar Rock region in particular, which is where such a link could take place.
You said there was 52% dissatisfaction with the rail system. With which rail lines were respondents least satisfied? I ask because this survey, I take it, was made prior to the recently increased rail services.
Mr. Murphy
There are eight regions in Ireland and we had a regionally dispersed sample base. The perceptions are broken down in line with the responses in each region. For the survey to be representative one must use the overall national figure. The questions, therefore, did not address particular rail lines. There probably is a perception lag between when the survey was undertaken and our conversation now, given recent infrastructural developments.
The survey was based on eight regions and it should be clear which region showed most discontent with the rail service.
Mr. Murphy
I can come back with the breakdown, but I do not have the data to hand.
The data was correlated on a national basis and it does not show the areas where the biggest problems are regarding rail services, road access and so on. I can understand why such an approach was taken, since Chambers Ireland was conducting the survey and this is a national survey which may not target problem areas. Could Mr. Murphy supply the committee with data on the breakdown for the eight regions?
Mr. Murphy
I will, with the caveat that 75 people were surveyed.
The committee also needs to know the categories these people fell into — members of the public, companies or service businesses.
Mr. Murphy
They are companies. There is a breakdown on the back of the appendix on the size of the companies.
I attended the launch of this survey last December. The survey was conducted on behalf of the Chamber. What has been done with it since it was completed? Was it presented to the Government? Did it respond? One finding was that the vast majority of respondents wanted more competition in the provision of transport, a view possibly reinforced by the events of this week. Do you intend to conduct a follow-up survey to see how attitudes are changing? One finding showed that the cost of haulage had gone up significantly as a percentage of turnover over five years. That will have changed in the six months since the findings were presented.
You mentioned open skies and the privatisation of Aer Lingus. Open skies is looking less likely in the immediate future. This sector is in constant flux and is subject to dramatic changes. Will further surveys follow to measure attitudinal changes? What do you do with the information you collect?
Mr. Murphy
The survey has informed the Chamber's view on the transport issues we face as consumers. We represent business as a consumer of goods and services and it has influenced our views on transportation links, transport liberalisation and further investments that may be needed.
We presented the findings to the committee today, we had bilateral meetings with senior departmental officials and their colleagues in related areas. We have had interactions with policy leaders in the City and County Managers Association who are vital in the delivery of infrastructural projects. The primary goal is to get a view of consumers of these services to see what needs to be done. There has not been much analysis of what business consumers of transportation services feel about transportation issues. We will do additional surveys and compare the data year on year in the future. We plan to do another this autumn.
Our submissions on the National Development Plan 2007-2013 have been directly influenced by some of the data presented here. Visionary ideas like the tunnel are for the long term, but with Engineers Ireland we have considered where Ireland should be in 50 years and our political leadership should do likewise.
I was amused at the tunnel idea because it is fanciful in the extreme. It might be a wonderful idea and it is no harm to suggest it, but was there any response from the Department of Transport? It is certainly an attention grabber.
Mr. Murphy
It is fanciful in the short term, no doubt, but substantial infrastructure is being constructed around the world. The Panama Canal is 80 miles long, the Japanese are about to commission a 60-kilometre tunnel, the bridge linking Copenhagen with Sweden is 56 kilometres long. This kind of infrastructure is already in place. I mentioned the large ships being built in Japan. The third biggest port in the USA was moved out of Los Angeles to accommodate these massive ships coming from China, which will be the workshop of the world. A very large port in Estonia has been upgraded and hopes to become the entrepôt for Asian exports into Europe being trans-shipped across the Siberian railway line.
In isolation the tunnel idea is fanciful, but when one considers the tectonic movements in manufacturing, processing and services that are happening around the world, we should think in the long term about how we control our destiny.
We have a greater interest in a tunnel between here and Britain than Britain has in having such a link with us. One really has to connect two similarly sized land masses for it to make economic sense.
Mr. Murphy
I agree. The infrastructural division of SNCF, the French railway company, has been in contact with us suggesting that a direct tunnel link to France would be better. This is the view of one person in a very large organisation that is currently building a tunnel between Lyon and Turin for the TGV. His view is that to go via the Scilly Isles and on to France would involve two 60-kilometre links. The water is not very deep; it is approximately 80 ft. In Engineers Ireland's report, A Vision of Transport in Ireland in 2050, eminent engineers, referring to the prospects for Ireland in the future, say it can be done with the new technologies coming on stream, that is by 2050, not now. There are ways around these things as time goes on and, as I said earlier, the Japanese are building a 60-kilometre tunnel as we speak.
We may not be around to see it.
Mr. Murphy
Possibly, although I might be.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Murphy
I did not mean it in that way.
In what way did you mean it?
Mr. Murphy
I was referring to all of us.
We have seen the experience with the port tunnel, which has been a financial disaster. Last week it was being re-financed again. Does Mr. Murphy believe the volume of traffic out of Ireland would warrant it, even in 2050?
Mr. Murphy
Certainly not within Ireland. There is no chance of that. The major ports in Europe include Antwerp and Rotterdam and if those ports become too shallow to accommodate the massive ships coming to Europe to service the European market, Ireland might be seen as an entrepôt, servicing the whole of Europe via a high-speed rail link, for example, for goods and services being transported across. There is potential for that. It is very much a long-term vision; it is not for here and now. It probably will not happen in my lifetime but it is something that could happen.
Could it or will it happen? What is Mr. Murphy's honest opinion? There is no doubt that the ordinary container ships will still use these ports and that is the way it will go. Some of the very big ships will still carry the massive bulk but that will be only for commodities. They will not end up in the container business because unless they are very cheap to ship over long journeys, the cost of transport, unloading and reloading will make it non-viable. It is visionary. No one disagrees with that but the knock-on costs of moving, even by high-speed rail or whatever, will make it non-viable. Fuel costs will probably have a major effect as well.
Mr. Murphy
We are looking into the future. We are not sure where the future will take us but The Economist last week stated that Mitsui have commissioned 12 leviathans for $1 billion that will be too big to pass through the Panama Canal. The ships passing through the Panama Canal are approximately 93 metres wide; they are very big ships. That type of construction is under way as we speak and when we consider that the Panama Canal is 80 miles long, these things can happen. The trans-Siberian railway was a significant engineering achievement at the time. Who is to know what our requirements will be in the future? This was a visionary element to our survey, which examined more bread and butter issues like public transport, air and rail.
The only thing that will stop large ships coming from Asia to Europe is the width of the Straits of Malacca. That is the pinch point between China and Europe and that depth and width of ship will be too big to enter Rotterdam, for example. Places such as Portugal, western France and Ireland could be entrepôts for Europe in servicing that market.
I agree it is visionary and I do not mean to criticise it but in a more immediate sense do we not have to prepare for those leviathans because wherever they end up they will require bigger feeder ships, and those bigger feeder ships will not even get into Dublin Port? We must make a huge investment before we consider accommodating the bigger ships. It is the feeder ships we should be considering.
Foynes is the only——
Foynes is the only suitable port. Foynes may well be the centre of the universe.
It will be. I guarantee it.
Mr. Murphy
We have seen it before in other eras. The reason we have Bull Island is that Dublin Port was cleaned up to facilitate bigger ships. We are saying that in the here and now, the link between the south-west of Ireland and anywhere else, be it Britain or France, is the logical place to start a tunnel. It is a question of sensitising our political and administrative systems to be prepared when the business case justifies such an investment in the future. It will not happen in the next 20 years; it is a long-term project. We must examine the way we are rezoning and facilitating the land around that area so that if it does arise, we will have a trans-European motorway network linking up with Rosslare-Europort. We are talking about the way we can facilitate that development in the future.
I welcome both representatives. To follow up on a point the Chairman made at the outset about the methodology of the survey, given that the greater Dublin area is very much the cockpit in terms of congestion and public transport, it is a little strange that the survey is based on a sample of only 75 people in the Dublin area. I would have thought it would have been weighted to reflect population, usage and so on. I am not sure that much can be extrapolated from a sample of 75 people for the Dublin region.
I am also interested to know where Chambers Ireland is going with this. It is one thing to carry out a survey but it is another to take action on it, devise policies from it and seek to have an input into national policy. I hope that as representatives of the business community, Chambers Ireland would take the next steps in that regard in devising policy and determining how it can contribute to solving some of these problems both in terms of ideas and, if necessary, funding as well.
Has Chambers Ireland made any attempt to quantify the cost to the business community of congestion in the Dublin area? We have heard various estimates of that over the years. Have the representatives any reliable figure on it? A figure we have heard in recent years would represent many multiples of the subvention provided to public transport companies. It would seem that from the business community's point of view it would make sense to consider being involved in funding public transport to tackle the congestion problems and make it easier for its organisation's members to move goods around the country. Is it thinking in those terms? Has it taken that type of creative approach to tackling the problems in the greater Dublin area?
Many of the views expressed would be on the movement of goods in and out of the country and the hauliers involved in the representatives' association would be well represented there. Very little appears to be done in the country generally in terms of policy on haulage, and specifically in regard to rail freight. We have had representatives of Irish Rail before the committee on a number of occasions outlining why it is not commercially viable for them to be involved in rail freight. There are significant costs involved and they are obliged to ensure that all their services are profit-making, but I suppose it depends on the way the sums are done. From Irish Rail's point of view, it may not make sense for it to be openly involved in rail freight. However, from a national point of view, account must be taken of the considerable cost of moving goods by road, in terms of building bigger and better roads, roads maintenance, wear and tear, effects on the environment and, significantly, effects on road safety and the significant costs that accrue to the State as a result of accidents involving heavy goods vehicles. There is a need to do the sums to include all those external costs and for the Government to come up with some package of measures to incentivise rail freight. Such systems exist in most other European countries. We have figures on those, although I do not know whether there is a direct grant system, tax relief or whatever.
Has Chambers Ireland examined that issue in any detail? Apart from the wear and tear and costs in terms of road safety, big trucks trundling through towns and villages throughout the country cause enormous aggravation to the public. It is not easy for drivers either who get held up in traffic. It is a very frustrating job and people are stressed working long hours on the road and so on with few facilities for them. There must be potential for incentivising some kind of scheme and following the examples of most other member states of the European Union which have various systems in place to support rail freight. Have the representatives any view on that or have they done any work on it?
I was also interested in what Mr. Murphy said about the most used airports for connections to and from Ireland. Some 49% of passengers use Heathrow for onward travel. That is no surprise. This issue arose in the context of the proposed sale or privatisation of Aer Lingus, in respect of which many of us expressed concern that there is no way of guaranteeing that the landing slots in Heathrow will be retained. It has become accepted in recent times that there is no mechanism whereby the Government can ensure that such slots are retained by the company. There is no such thing as a golden share or a blocking share. There is concern about the future of the Heathrow slots.
When the chairman of Aer Lingus attended a meeting of this committee recently, he said that the thinking that Heathrow is a critical hub is outdated and that Dubai is now such a hub. That seemed strange because I do not believe many people would travel from this country via Dubai. The Minister recently spoke on this issue. Does Mr. Murphy envisage that those figures will change significantly? While he said that these are last year's figures, is it not likely that approximately half of his members will be dependent on the Heathrow slots remaining in place for the foreseeable future? Has he expressed a view to Government on the impact on the business community if those slots were lost in the event of their being sold in the context of new ownership?
Mr. Murphy
The Deputy asked a number of questions, which I will address separately. As regards funding for public transport in the future, we are supporters of the privatisation agenda or, more importantly, not the privatisation of any of the CIE companies but the privatisation of access to bus routes and other transport routes with a view to servicing customer demands and needs. A number of reports, including ESRI's recent report on bus liberalisation, have been published on this area. The ESRI's quarterly commentary contained a special article on bus transport liberalisation and the opportunities that exist in the context of addressing unmet needs.
We are aware of some of the problems private bus operators face in picking up passengers on inter-city routes. Some of the hoops through which they must jump to service their customers' needs make it difficult for them to meet the demand they know exists for picking up passengers at different locations. On the Dublin to Belfast route, there are strange procedures in place as to how and when bus operators can stop, where they can stop and who they can pick up. There is definitely a case for private operators to enter the market and provide a service to meet additional demand that is not being met.
The same applies in respect of air transport routes. That has been spectacularly illustrated by air services provided by Ryanair versus those offered by Aer Lingus during the past 20 years.
On the issue of the quantification of the impact of cost of congestion on the business community, I have not calculated that. However, a quick and easy way to do so may be based on assuming that if an average employee loses six hours per month and if the average industrial wage is €30,000, we can calculate the average by using the wage per hour and multiplying that figure. I can return to the Deputy with a quantification on that cost, which would give her a sample estimate. It would probably be a fairly robust way of examining this aspect in terms of cost of transport difficulties and gridlock.
Regarding public transport, we differentiate between privatisation and opening up competition on public transport routes. CIE, Iarnród Éireann and the companies related to CIE play an important role in providing a service that is vital to all customers. There is, however, scope and potential for the provision of additional services. There is also scope for examining different ways of bundling public transportation routes, perhaps by grouping a high passenger number corridor with two other lower passenger number corridors and operating service level agreements to ensure that a bus service of specific quality and regularity is in place. The contract for such a service could be tendered for three years and a regulator could be appointed to determine how frequently bus routes should operate and, if necessary, remove the contract from the operator that won it if the service level drops below a certain requirement. There are a number of different ways in which a system based on this model could be put in place. We have investigated them and will investigate them further in the future.
The haulage and rail freight issues are difficult to address because we have a dispersed population in Ireland and our network is not plugged in to the continental railway routes, which ironically brings me back to the earlier discussion on the long-term visionary statement. Relative to continental European train haulage routes, the gaps and distances are not long. This is a key issue. Another is the potential relocation of Cork Port. The way the latter is being planned, a rail hub connection to the port will not be provided. Cork Port is one of the top three ports in the State. Similarly, I am not aware of a rail connection to Bremore Port, even though one should be provided. This presents a great opportunity for development and is a significant port operation.
Some 97% of all freight is transported by road. That is the factual position. In the context of road safety, Deputy Shortall is correct in pointing out the volume of large trucks travelling through built-up urban areas or villages. Motorways are by far the safest road transportation routes. The truck drivers who use motorways are not obliged to travel through towns, cities or urban centres. That is another issue worth considering.
Did Mr. Murphy examine the introduction of an incentive scheme?
Mr. Murphy
No, not directly. I would be obliged to discuss the matter with the Deputy to ascertain how she would envisage that such a scheme could be facilitated. Rail transport receives a significant subsidy directly from the Exchequer, validly I might add, which, by definition, one could argue is an incentive that is already in place. However, that company is encountering difficulty in meeting existing demand for its services.
That is only per passenger.
Mr. Murphy
Yes.
On the question of landing slots at Heathrow, at the time of the recent announcement, we called for the preservation of access to the Heathrow slots. We would have difficulty in agreeing with the Deputy that they cannot be preserved in some form. We are not totally tied to them because there are other hubs worth exploring that will develop in the future, such as Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris, Schipol and Frankfurt. There will probably be four major hubs in Europe in the future. We have access to all of them and we can access them in the future.
There is a massive growth in point-to-point air transport. We are aware of this with Ryanair but it is also evident at executive level and business user level, which offers great opportunity for tier two airlines in airports such as Dublin. This does not represent tier two airlines per se, but it is at the lower level of major grid connectivity. There is a major potential for Dublin and, ultimately, Shannon and other airports to grow new links such as the link with Dubai we discussed already, which plugs in to the Emigrates link, a major hub for long-haul flights throughout Asia and beyond. I have tried to address most of the issues the Deputy raised. There is no doubt that the Heathrow landing slots are important and we believe they can be preserved in a post-privatisiaton era.
I would be interested in obtaining the detail on that from Mr. Murphy. Perhaps he might forward it to me.
I welcome Mr. Murphy and Ms Dempsey. I wish to clarify whether the transport users survey that members received is separate from the air transport users committee, which, I take it, is part of the Chambers Ireland operation.
Mr. Murphy
It is a wider entity that embraces the air transport users councils commissioned by the council, which includes members of the air transport users council. The air transport users council is one of six councils. The former is a subset of the transport users council, which is one of six councils that informs Chambers Ireland on its policy development.
I wish to raise two points. I very much subscribe to the Mr. Murphy's vision of connectivity between Ireland and the UK. History has shown beyond doubt that connectivity in any shape or form is the way to proceed. Plans dating back over the last century between Alaska and Siberia and the opening of the Panama Canal and the Suez Canal highlight that connectivity between areas of commerce always proved to be visionary in the long term and that projects relating to connectivity generally come to fruition. I would support keeping Mr. Murphy's ideas on the agenda, particularly in regard to the new super-leviathans that will be coming into the equation. China is the working shop of the world and 40,000 container super-ships will be carrying its goods to Europe in ten or 20 years' time. That presents a fabulous opportunity for Ireland, located on the west coast of Europe, to be the break-up hub for the goods being exported from not only China but also India. We will effectively manufacture no goods on this Continent in a few years' time. Obviously, Foynes should form a major part of the thinking in that regard. In the document, Chambers Ireland calls on the Government to deliver the final steps to complete the unbundling of the three State airports so that, from a financial perspective, they can operate independently. Did Chambers Ireland consult with Shannon and Cork airports on that statement?
Mr. Murphy
We represent business, as a consumer, and 60 affiliated chambers throughout the country. Our views are informed and influenced by our constituent members and what they say. With regard to consulting directly with the aviation authorities, we met the Dublin Airport Authority and we are due to meet the Cork authority soon. There have been delays so it will probably be in June or perhaps later in the summer, depending on when work on the terminal there is completed. We will consult the Shannon authority in due course. We have not talked to the authorities directly about this issue to date but we believe that, from a regional development point of view, it is important that airports are facilitated in taking control of their destinies so they can develop as they require.
I agree, and that is provided for in the legislation. However, the call is premature. Certainly Shannon Airport, and probably Cork Airport, would disagree with the statement. They do not want financial independence at this stage, even though it is provided for in the legislation. They are not ready for that. Calling for it is one thing but the airports do not want it at present. It would be a retrograde step for Shannon, which is planning to go in that direction but pursuing the final steps in unbundling, as is called for in the statement, is not what it wants or needs at this stage. I am surprised that businesses, which Chambers Ireland represents, would call for that because it is distinctly out of tune with what the airport wants, certainly in the mid-west area.
Mr. Murphy
I will communicate further with the Deputy on that. We have talked to members of the board at Shannon and are quite familiar with some of the issues, but I will revert to the Deputy on it.
With regard to the regional influence and the impact it has had, a key part of our goal on the NDP is completion of the Atlantic roadway, specifically the Galway to Limerick links, with a view to ensuring the financial viability of regional airports on the western seaboard and, in particular, Shannon. It is a key consideration for us and we believe it should be completed at the same time as the national primary routes are completed under Transport 21.
I welcome our visitors. I wish to follow up on my colleagues' comments on the methodology of the sample because 75 appears to be a small number. If I recall correctly, I understood there had to be more than 1,000 to reach something called the chi factor, which meant one could extrapolate and make national assumptions. I assume that is possible with 75, although it is in some other way I have not understood. Could our visitors give us some information regarding the geographical spread and how these people were selected? Are they all business people or are they general consumers? There is a possibility that they might all be business people.
With regard to rail freight, it is a great pity that this aspect of Irish transport has been so neglected. I am sorry that there are no plans in the new Cork Port development for a railhead. This is something that should be seriously considered if we wish to move more goods off the roads, where they are not universally welcome. Mr. Murphy mentioned another port.
Mr. Murphy
Bremore in north County Dublin.
I am surprised there was no mention of the metro in Dublin. I believe this is one of the principal ways of achieving a reduction in surface traffic, particularly private vehicles. Will Mr. Murphy confirm that the chambers, particularly the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, strongly support a metro? I am concerned that we are only getting bits and pieces. There has been an announcement of the underground link between Heuston Station and——
Interconnector.
It has been described in the media as an underground link.
It is an underground link.
Yes. I welcome it. May I continue?
I thought the Senator was looking for the word "interconnector", but he was not stuck for words.
Not at all.
Deputy Olivia Mitchell should allow Senator Norris to proceed.
I am glad of the protection. It is important that we examine the complete underground project, not in a piecemeal fashion but as something integrated. I favour a more developed underground project. There is also the issue of the visionary tunnel. I heard about this from professional groups that seem to think it is rapidly becoming technologically possible. I wonder about the choice between trying to develop a tunnel between this island and Britain, which seems quite adventurous, and developing one which would run directly to the Continent and which would be of enormous length. Whatever about the practicality of getting a connection to England, the one to the Continent appears to be quite fantastic. However, all types of fantastic things have happened. What is Chambers Ireland's view on the balance of practicalities between a tunnel to England or a tunnel to the Continent?
This brings me to the question of size. Mr. Murphy referred to the advent of enormous ships. I expect that they will be built. However, what about the safety factor? If one of these large vessels was involved in an accident, issues surrounding oil spillages, contamination from the products on board, etc., would arise. These vessels become more dangerous in direct proportion to their size. In addition, if ships of this size are coming to the country, presumably there will be lorries of a comparable size distributing the goods. Does that not make it even more farcical that the Dublin city authorities so resolutely opposed a small enlargement of the tunnel to allow these larger lorries to use it? That seems daft. In future, such lorries might be even bigger. It is, therefore, bizarre to talk about diverting these vehicles — which should be removed from our streets — back into the streets of the inner city.
Mr. Murphy referred to privatisation of the bus system and so forth. There are various problems with that. The State bus company, for historical reasons, has adequate garage facilities. The private bus companies appear to have no such facilities and use the public highway to garage their buses. One can see this throughout the city but, more particularly, in the north inner city. The Dundalk buses, for example, provide a very good service but clog up parts of Parnell Street and Mountjoy Square. This is not a proper use of the city's resources. It is not a sophisticated approach to transport that the only place one can pick up bus connections between the major cities and Dublin is on the public highway, where they create a nuisance, double park and dribble oil everywhere. Will Mr. Murphy comment on a method to provide some bus stations, even for private buses? If there is to be a major development of privatisation, it is not appropriate that this expansion should be on to the public streets. There must be some provision for garaging.
Mr. Murphy
I will try to address the Senator's questions in the order they were asked. With regard to the methodology, pages 29 and 30 of the survey, which was distributed to the members, outline the number of recipients and respondents and provide profiles in respect of them. A total of 600 businesses were profiled. The survey was undertaken with MORI MRC, a reputable survey company. That company is comfortable with it being a statistically valid sample size.
We spoke about the indicative number when we broke it down to the eight EU NUTS regions. There are NUTS regions for eight areas of the country and there are 75 respondents per region. That is where the data start becoming indicative in nature. This ties in with Deputy Olivia Mitchell's query regarding the 75 and the indicative number in respect of Dublin. We were not biased towards Dublin even though perhaps one third of respondents were from there and it is the principal port for the country. Given the way in which much of our country is tilted infrastructure-wise, Dublin has a direct influence on many other parts of the country from an infrastructure and transport point of view. In many ways, the perceptions of that among the two thirds of the population living outside Dublin are equally valid and, therefore, we are reasonably comfortable with the breakdown for the NUTS regions. The other issue is that we have to get a sample from across the country. Since we represent business communities throughout the country, we need data of interest to them also which is why we break it down in that way.
Chambers Ireland is supportive of the metro. Dublin Chamber of Commerce will appear before the committee tomorrow, so members can ask it in greater detail exactly what it thinks about the metro and how it should go. However, Chambers Ireland believes it is important and very much needed. Going via Dublin Airport to Swords is good.
I turn to the Dublin Port tunnel and the size of ships. Whether we like it or not, the size of ships is increasing. The 12 ships about which I spoke are 1,200 ft. long and 150 ft. wide. These enormous ships have been commissioned and the size of ships will only get larger. The word "fantastic" is a fair one to use but, in the long term, many fantastic things have happened for good or ill and it is a question of being prepared to embrace those changes as they come, which is what we are discussing.
In many ways, the market will decide the size of trucks. I do not believe it is necessarily the case that a leviathan ship begets a leviathan truck. It is down to the cargo container size and how it is transported.
There has been no sign of trucks getting smaller.
Mr. Murphy
That is true, but it is an issue for another day. Turning to garaging, I do not know whether private operators are parking in the Parnell Street area. That may well be the case but there are ways in which it can be dealt with.
It is most definitely the case. I am not against these companies which give a very good service and which have very polite, courteous drivers and passengers. However, it is not appropriate to have a bus park created willy-nilly off the main street of a capital city.
Mr. Murphy
There are ways to deal with that in the context of incentivisation or otherwise. If parking facilities are in place, people will use them. It is an issue for the city authorities to determine how it can be done.
Would it be possible to do a little more work on that and to produce a few recommendations along the incentivisation lines because without that, in my experience of this country, sweet damn all will happen?
I thank the deputation for attending. When Mr. Murphy met departmental officials in respect of the information he has garnered, congestion and the horrific cost of congestion in and around Dublin which is growing daily, what was their attitude? Are we only scratching the surface in the way we are attempting to deal with the problem? What are Mr. Murphy's views on how we are dealing with the problem in Dublin where a city council can dictate what will happen nationally in regard to truck movements and the costs associated with the steps being taken to ban trucks?
I like the visionary approach being taken. Somebody needs to look at the long term because politicians and Governments probably only look at the short term. On the issue of the port tunnel and the size of ships, this is a peripheral nation which depends on international trade so it must be connected and competitive into the future. I would like to hear Mr. Murphy's views on whether Dublin Port, which is our main port, has a future in the long term. Are we really saying the port tunnel is going nowhere because it will be an impediment to the future development of Dublin Port because it will not be able to accommodate the ships bringing in these containers which, along with business and the market, will decide where they will go? They will go elsewhere in the State, whether to Foynes or Greenore. I would like to hear Mr. Murphy's views on whether Dublin Port has a future.
Mr. Murphy
Congestion is a key problem and I will get some data on it and revert to the committee in due course. It is a key issue even from the point of view of the transportation of workers, flexible working and couples collecting children from crèches. There are ramifications in regard to the pick up time from crèches which we could go into on another day.
In regard to the attitude of departmental officials, we met Julie O'Neill and her colleagues in the Department of Transport. The Department, from a perception point of view, is very much up for resolving the issues we have encountered. It has secured a significant budget under the allocation for Transport 21 and is moving towards delivery time. In every country with infrastructural projects, there is often a learning phase or era. Historically, we have no corporate memory of making some of the really significant investments which we are making at this time and one must allow for that.
The initial phase of the National Roads Authority was not as successful as the current phase. The new management team, including the chair and the chief executive, has significantly enhanced the perceptions and the professionalism of the activities being undertaken and the timeliness within which it is commissioning, building and rolling out infrastructure. I spoke about the timelag between perceptions and the reality in this survey. We must allow for that corporate memory to be built up. That also allows for specialisation to be built up in the Department to oversee those activities. For example, the Dublin Regional Authority will have a role to play in overseeing the infrastructural needs of the Dublin city area. As members know, the Dublin Chamber of Commerce will appear before the committee tomorrow and they can discuss some of these issues with it.
We are only hearing submissions tomorrow. If a member raises an issue, we would appreciate it if Mr. Murphy could send further information.
Mr. Murphy
I will revert to the committee via the Dublin Chamber of Commerce. I will refer issues to my colleague, Aebhric McGibney.
Turning to Dublin Port, any entity which is not flexible has problems. Heretofore, Dublin Port has been the most successful port in the State and its management team has the confidence and flexibility to embrace change as and when it needs to. It is not for me to write its business plan as to whether it will survive into the future. It has a strong product and customer base and it is up to it to maintain those into the future. Again, we are talking about the long term and it is too difficult to determine the port's future.
I welcome Mr. Murphy. Did the western rail corridor show up on the radar, so to speak? Does Chambers Ireland believe it is in the future economic interest of Ireland for the western rail corridor to be up and running? I do not wish Mr. Murphy to cover ground already covered but from a regional development point of view, including the Border, midlands and western, BMW, region, are we not losing the battle? Everything about which Mr. Murphy spoke concerned more expenditure for Dublin with hardly a word about the rest of the country.
Mr. Murphy
As regards the western rail corridor, respondents were asked what they saw as their priority investment. We have no problem with the development of the western rail corridor but respondents said that road was the number one priority. In that context, it informed our view on the need to complete the Atlantic roadway at the same time as the national primary routes are built. I refer particularly to the roads linking Galway to Limerick and Shannon because they open up the west to the potential development of a critical mass around which people could build careers and futures. It would create great opportunities for the populations of Galway, Mayo and Limerick.
As regards the BMW region, there is no rail link to the Border region of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal. There is definite scope for further enhanced development in those areas. In that context, we believe chambers are vital at local economic development level. We host two conferences each year on that theme in the BMW and southern and eastern regions with a view to sensitising policymakers and leaders in those regions to the potential of their areas to grow them in the future.
For example, high quality electricity connectivity is a key issue north of the Dublin to Galway line. To be fair, the ESB and its infrastructure arm are rapidly upgrading that facility. That is a key issue. Our affiliated chambers have campaigned long and hard to change the methodology by which the cost of a gas connection is calculated and the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, is due to make an announcement on how that can be calculated. Facilitating gas connectivity to the towns of the west and north west is another piece in the armoury of making a town more attractive to investors.
Broadband is necessary too.
Mr. Murphy
Absolutely. We have a strong policy position on broadband. We favour local loop unbundling but, given the dispersed nature of the population and that the final 15% of rural exchanges will never be upgraded, there will be a market failure and additional investment will be required.
This is a chicken and egg scenario. There is pressure for services in Dublin while the services are not available in the west. If there is no investment in services, they will not be introduced. Unless projects earmarked for the west are ring-fenced, the funding for them will be raided by somebody else before they are implemented, as happened many times under various Governments in the past. I refer to roads projects. The most recent tranche of funding has been expended everywhere in the State, except the west.
Mr. Murphy
Certain core elements of investment must be put in place in respect of infrastructure.
We would like to hear more from Mr. Murphy's organisation on this.
Mr. Murphy
We commented on it in the past and we will continue to do so.
Chambers Ireland should be more vocal.
Is there a power deficit in the west?
Mr. Murphy
Starkly. The electricity grid is being upgraded but a heavy industry cannot be sited north of the Galway-Dublin line because the electricity quality is not good enough.
I have experience of that. Is Chambers Ireland prepared to make a recommendation that a gas-fired power station should be linked to the new gas field to support power supplies to the north west? Many colleagues on both sides of the political fence have always maintained there is a need for this but others have argued against it. However, Mr. Murphy has confirmed that Chambers Ireland has identified this as a shortcoming in the region.
Mr. Murphy
I am not sure about going down to the granular level of a gas-fired power station but we have said the ESB is in the process of rolling out a €1.5 billion a year investment programme to upgrade its grid, which will deliver electricity of sufficient quality to meet everyone's needs. Private or public operators can plug in to meet their energy requirements or capacities. For example, a new power station has been commissioned in Derry, which could facilitate electricity requirements in the north west. The provision of gas facilities to more communities is more important to enable them to develop. Under the new regime Bord Gais is pushing for, it will be economically justifiable to pump gas into towns such as Ballina, Castlebar, Westport and others in the north west. Until now the accounting rules allowed for discounting of the investment over seven years rather than 21 years and it was, therefore, not economically viable to do so. Our affiliated chambers have campaigned for that and they are in the process of achieving that.
We would appreciate it if Mr. Murphy would ask them to shout a little more, similar to the national body because there is a power deficit in the region, similar to the roads deficit, which is being addressed. The power deficit means many companies that might want to site their operations in the region have to set up in cities, which might not be in their interest in the long term. The chambers have a role to play in this. I thank Mr. Murphy and Ms Dempsey for their forthright presentation.
I welcome Mr. Joe Meagher, managing director, Dublin Bus, and Mr. Paddy Doherty, business development manager. I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Information supplied by Mr. Meagher has been circulated and he will brief the committee.
Mr. Joe Meagher
We are pleased to accept the committee's invitation to appear. I will make a Powerpoint presentation. My first slide gives an overview of the company. Our annual custom is 146 million people and our bus fleet is 1,082, mainly double deckers. We have a staff of 3,451, our annual revenue is €181 million and our expenditure is €244 million which means we have a fare box ratio of 74%. The second slide provides an indication of how we compare internationally. It is always difficult to compare like with like but, in general, we compare quite well.
The third slide sets out the divide between public and private transport in Dublin during the morning peak. Total car transport is 44% and public transport is 56%. Dublin Bus has 70% of the total share of public transport and rail and Luas comprise the balance. As Transport 21 is implemented, the numbers carried by rail and Luas will change dramatically and we also expect our numbers to increase substantially. The next slide sets out customer growth between 1998 and 2005. There was consistent growth until 2004, which was mainly due to the development of quality bus corridors, QBCs. The reduction in 2005 was due to the introduction of Luas services. When the green and red line Luas services were introduced a number of customers moved to them from the bus service. Our estimate of the number who have moved from bus to Luas is approximately 6 million per year. It is difficult to be exact and the Rail Procurement Agency, RPA, suggests that it could be higher. Had the Luas not been introduced, there would have been some continuous growth in the base figure for Dublin Bus.
Some of the following slides show the success of the QBCs. In the late 1990s on the QBCs, 41% of morning peak customers travelled to work by bus and 59% by car. In 2004, the numbers changed to 57% by bus and 43% by car. A significant increase in growth was, therefore, achieved through the late 1990s and the early 2000s as we developed the QBCs and priorities. Not much has happened in more recent years in this area.
I have highlighted a particular route, the Stillorgan QBC, on account of its success in terms of its priority. This route demonstrates how successful QBCs can be. In the late 1990s it was felt that Leeson Street bridge was at capacity when approximately 8,000 people were carried over it each morning by bus and car. It was believed no more could be carried. However, with the introduction of the Stillorgan quality bus corridor, the numbers now are in excess of 10,000, a significant increase. More interestingly, in 1997 only 20% of those were carried by bus, but more than half are now carried by bus.
The slide shows in blue on the graph the number carried by car, which reduced significantly between the late 1990s and 2004 on the Stillorgan corridor. The yellow shows the numbers carried by bus, which have trebled. This graph demonstrates that we can get a modal shift from car to bus if we provide the priority and increase the frequency and number of buses. This has happened. The keys to success are that buses must be frequent and able to move freely. We have got that change on the Stillorgan corridor and this can be copied. There are other corridors. We have nine QBCs, but the performance on the others is varied. We do not have the frequency on some of them, nor do we have the priority on all of them. We need to do more in that regard and that will be part of the plan we put forward. We use the Stillorgan corridor as a good example of what can be achieved.
The next slide shows three examples, the Lucan, Stillorgan and Malahide corridors, which do quite well. In each case the bus beats the car in terms of journey time on key sections of the corridor, which is the critical factor.
My next slide highlights the issue of congestion which is a major issue for Dublin Bus and points to the need for urgent action on more priorities. The average speed of our buses has reduced consistently. This is the case on certain of the quality bus corridors also. One of the slides shows the peak and off-peak speeds. Speed has reduced consistently and from 2003 to 2005 it dropped by approximately 1 km/h. We used to travel at 13.5 km/h but now it is approximately 12.5 km/h. This is of great concern. Independent assessments have shown that congestion in Dublin costs us approximately €60 million.
The network review was conducted independently by MVA and was finalised early this year. Some slides in the report summarise the review and I will concentrate on the key issues. The network review identified two critical issues, first, insufficient capacity on the network and, second, congestion and increasing distances that extend journey times to unacceptable levels as the city develops beyond the M50. On some services from Blanchardstown it now takes approximately an hour and three quarters to get into town. That inordinate amount of time is because of extra distance and congestion in the Blanchardstown area, close to the city and in the centre of town. We must deal with these issues of capacity and congestion and this is what the network review tried to address in its recommendations.
The first recommendation of the network review was that 200 buses be added to the fleet as soon as possible. We propose they be added this year and next, 2006 and 2007. Their purpose is, primarily, to increase the frequency on quality bus corridors and provide new and better services in developing areas. Significant development is taking place in various areas, in the north fringe, the Blanchardstown area, Adamstown, the Sandyford area etc. Therefore, we need additional buses to service those areas. The second key and urgent recommendation is the need to introduce a radical central area bus priority plan and strengthen the bus priority in areas outside the M50, such as developing areas.
Stage two of the recommendations looks at reshaping the route network. Certain elements must be in place for this to happen. This would involve linking up more cross-city bus routes that operate inside the M50, what we call the shorter routes. It is vital that we have free movement through the city centre to enable this to happen, otherwise there is no point in doing it. This would create space on the city centre streets that are currently used as termini. We would also provide express services from areas outside the M50. This is important to reduce the journey times that some people experience — I already said that it can take an hour and 45 minutes to get from Ongar in Blanchardstown to the city centre. It is critical that priority is given to move the buses faster, but also to have express services, rather than stopping all along the way, to provide a better service for customers.
We intend to expand complementary local and orbital networks. This is a need where areas develop in the suburbs. We have a certain network currently, but it needs to be improved and expanded with additional buses and priorities. We should also add a further 225 buses to the fleet of buses operating in Dublin over and above the 200 by 2007. In total, we should add 425 buses by 2011, in five years' time.
May I ask a question for clarification?
Please wait until Mr. Meagher has finished before asking questions.
I just want clarification on his first point. Will he give an example?
Please allow Mr. Meagher to make his presentation. It has always been the procedure that anyone making a presentation completes it before we ask questions.
Mr. Meagher
We have put in a new No. 4 route from St. Vincent's hospital to DCU, across the city, and it is an example of the cross-city bus routes that operate inside the M50. Over time, as Transport 21 is implemented and the rail-based modes are expanded — the metro, the suburban rail and the Luas — there will be a need to reshape the bus services to reflect this change and introduce more local and feeder services.
For example, if the interconnector was in place, it is clear the level of services that could be provided into town from Blanchardstown would change and similarly in the case of the metro.
Apart from the additional buses and routes to new areas and the additional priorities, other important measures are in train such as improved ticketing, integrated ticketing, smart cards and good and cohesive marketing of the whole public transport product in Dublin. On the question of good information for customers, we would like to provide real time passenger information that customers could access through their mobile phones to find out the actual time of the next bus or we would like to provide displays at certain bus routes. Interchange at city termini and the development of park and ride facilities are important. We are discussing the topic of park and ride with the local authorities because it is important to provide access to our routes and services.
The network review has made those key recommendations. It is interesting that Transport 21 basically reflects what the network review recommends. Transport 21 recommended expanding the quality bus corridor network, improving services to developing areas, a 60% increase in bus capacity by the end of the plan. I emphasise that it recommends a critical role for the bus during the first half of the plan. Many important rail-based projects are under way and will be delivered during the time of the plan but much of the benefit will come during the second half and towards the end of the plan. If public transport improvements are to be put in place, it is important that the bus is seen as playing a role in the early stages as only the bus can really do that. There will be certain other developments but we will depend on the bus for the main benefits and there will be a changing role as rail projects come on stream.
I referred to the 57:43 bus-car ratio on the QBCs in November 2004 which had moved up from virtually a reverse of that figure as in the late 1990s. With the implementation of the Dublin Bus plan, we envisage in the morning peak hours a bus-car ratio forecast of 70:30 on the QBCs by 2011 and we believe this can be achieved.
I refer to the slide which illustrates some of the main developing areas where the population growth is happening. This is not a comprehensive listing of our radial routes by any means but is an indication that Dublin Bus intends, through the development of quality bus corridors, to link in all the key developing areas.
Dublin Bus intends to introduce five new QBCs to the central area, bringing the total number of radial quality bus corridors to 14 and introduce six orbital QBCs linking the various suburban communities such as Tallaght, Lucan, Swords. Certain services are already being provided but they are caught by enormous traffic problems, the number 75 route from Dún Laoghaire across to Tallaght being a good example. We need to improve the priority and frequency and perhaps straighten up a number of the routes and reorganise the structure of the routes to provide a more comprehensive service.
I have included a map showing the proposed quality bus radial corridor which will be quite comprehensive around Dublin. The advantage of the bus is that when it comes off the key part of the quality bus corridor, it can serve local developing areas. It is flexible and can provide services that feed off developing areas and into the prioritised corridor for a quick run into town, with a number of routes being express routes.
I have set out a proposed orbital QBC network. This is not a final proposal as it will develop over time. The important point is that we must develop a more comprehensive orbital network. The red marks on the map indicate links either with Dublin Bus radial QBCs or with the Luas services or with suburban rail services and ultimately with the metro.
I refer to the next slide in the presentation. One of the critical issues relates to the city centre. It is of major importance to Dublin Bus as it is our biggest bottleneck at present. We do not have free flow through the city centre and it is a major issue. For example, Dublin Bus has 58 million customers passing the front of Trinity College every year. We need cross-city bus priorities of the Luas style and very strong priorities for buses generally. It is taking anything from ten or 12 minutes to 25 or 30 minutes to travel from Parnell Square up to St. Stephen's Green. Yesterday evening, the city centre was totally blocked up. It is impossible to provide a reliable service in that situation. We need measures to improve that.
Many different measures need to be developed to deal with the central area of the city. For example, when the Dublin Port tunnel opens, I argue strongly that we should immediately use that occasion to add priority for buses in the central area. One example would be to get continuous priority along the quays. We carry about 25 million customers along the quays every year but about halfway into town on the inward journey the buses get blocked up because there is no priority for buses. The port tunnel will provide an escape route for heavy vehicles and Dublin Bus argues this would be the right time to give priority to its buses which would mean a great deal to the 9.5 million customers coming in along the Blanchardstown corridor and those coming in from Clondalkin and Lucan.
It is very important that consideration is given to the alignment and construction of schemes such as the development of the metro and the light rail projects, so that Dublin Bus can continue to provide a reasonable service during the construction period and afterwards. The Dublin Transportation Office recently held a special Transport 21 seminar to examine those issues.
I have spoken about the city centre QBC connections. I will cite three basic lines which are very important for Dublin Bus. The yellow line comes from the St. Stephen's Green area down Dawson Street, Nassau Street, over O'Connell Bridge and up O'Connell Street. The red line goes out by Amiens Street and by South Great George's Street, Christchurch, Thomas Street on the south side. The purple line goes along the quays and out to Blanchardstown. These are all critical and are heavily laden with bus customers. Dublin Bus regards more priority as essential in those areas.
There are more priority actions that can be taken other than just painting white lines on roads and taking up road space. These include priority approaching junctions, bus-only access roads, traffic light priority, bus-only turns. Dublin Bus envisages an improvement in the general environment for bus users such as improved quality bus shelters and real time passenger information. We intend to move forward with a project for real time passenger information which we will implement as quickly as possible. The issue of accessibility for all customers is very important and Dublin Bus has a programme to achieve this. A total of 60% of our buses are now fully accessible and all buses purchased are now fully compliant.
I refer to Blanchardstown as an illustration of our priorities. Currently buses take nearly 100 minutes and on many occasions more than 100 minutes to travel from the terminus at Ongar into town. This travel time is deteriorating all the time. It is not many years ago since it took 75 or 80 minutes to travel that journey. If radical measures are not taken, this service will continue to deteriorate very quickly. If we bite the bullet and take the actions needed, the journey time can be brought back to about 75 minutes from the extremity of the route. Journey times will be even shorter for people along the route, of course. That is very important. I will not go through the detail of each of the three examples — Blanchardstown, Tallaght and Swords — I have given. Such scenarios apply on each of the bus corridors.
I would like to highlight the numbers of people being carried on some of our bus corridors and give an indication of Dublin Bus's view of the potential for growth that exists. Approximately 9.5 million people are carried on the Blanchardstown corridor, which is the busiest corridor, each year. Dublin Bus believes that the number of passengers on that route could increase to up to 12 million. The figures in question are of the same order as those on each of the Luas lines. Approximately 10 million people travelled on each of the Luas lines last year. The Stillorgan bus corridor carries slightly fewer passengers than the Blanchardstown corridor, followed by the Tallaght, Malahide and Lucan corridors. A number of corridors will be carrying well in excess of 8 million passengers by 2008. Two or three of them will be carrying between 10 million and 12 million passengers per annum. We are talking about big numbers.
Dublin Bus argues that the Stillorgan corridor, on which the 46A bus travels, has demonstrated that a quality bus corridor can do what is needed to move people. Not all Dublin Bus's customers travel on quality bus corridors. I do not want anyone to think we are forgetting the routes which do not involve such corridors. Extra buses also need to be allocated to such routes. Just over 40% of Dublin Bus's customers travel on quality bus corridors. It is planned that approximately 60% of them will be able to avail of the benefits of quality bus corridors by 2008. As Dublin Bus expands, it hopes that two thirds of its customers will benefit from corridors by 2011.
I have included in my submission one example of a model. It is the model that is used for almost all bus corridors. Blanchardstown is the heaviest used and probably the most difficult corridor, from a traffic congestion point of view. I chose the example in question to indicate the things we have in mind. Dublin Bus proposes to increase the number of buses on the Blanchardstown corridor by 28% or 37%. It plans to ensure that a bus passes along the trunk sections of the corridor every minute at peak hours. It has a target of increasing average bus speeds to 18 km/h — they are approximately 14.5 km/h at present. As I mentioned, Dublin Bus estimates that it can reduce journey times by up to 35 minutes and hopes to attract an additional 2.3 million customers, far more of whom would travel into town, per annum. It is something that can be dealt with and put in place quite quickly. The capital cost of doing so would be €30 million — just under €10 million for buses, €18 million for priorities and €2 million for customer information. It could be done in a couple of years if everybody works together.
I have put together a slide that shows how the necessary investment will be divided throughout the city. We will have a good network of quality bus corridors throughout the city. The investment figure for the north city area is €39 million, the relevant figure for the north west of the city — the Lucan and Blanchardstown areas — is €40 million, the relevant figure for the south west of the city is €29 million and the relevant figure for the south city area is €31 million. The figure of €20 million relates to orbital quality bus corridors, but it will certainly increase. The relevant figure for non-quality bus corridors is €26 million. That will be the general spread of investment that we will propose, subject to review every year, of course.
Some 170 of the 200 additional buses to be introduced by 2008, under my proposal, would operate on quality bus corridors. Buses would travel every two minutes, on average, during peak times. Dublin Bus's target would be to achieve an average speed of 18 km/h. An additional 37 million customers would travel on quality bus corridors. We estimate that by 2008, 64% of those travelling into Dublin city centre by bus during the morning peak hours would be using quality bus corridors. To have almost two thirds of customers using such corridors would not be a bad achievement. As I have said, the total capital investment needed for that plan is €185 million.
I will mention some other developments which are outlined on the next slide. I am trying to move through my presentation as fast as possible. The projects in question, which should not be forgotten, will be pursued in parallel with those I have mentioned. The development of an automatic vehicle location system for the company's buses will allow Dublin Bus to develop real-time passenger information for customers. Other measures to be put in place include the implementation of a fully integrated smartcard ticketing system, the implementation of a fully accessible bus fleet, the upgrade of bus shelters and the development of park and ride facilities. That is the menu we envisage. The benefits of the plan include short lead times and flexibility in the form of the ability to move from quality bus corridors to populated areas. One can carry large numbers of passengers on quality bus corridors, just as one can on the Luas network. Obviously, there is not as much disruption during the development of bus corridors as there is during the development of light rail facilities. There will be some transfer from private vehicles. It has been proven that quality bus corridors offer value for money. An independent report that was compiled by Indecon some years ago highlighted that fact.
I will consider by referring to a couple of slides on other issues. Dublin Bus makes available a range of tickets which offer good value for money. The time-based tickets with which one can avail of tax reductions represent very good value for customers over the course of a year. It costs just €3.50 for one-day unlimited bus travel in the Dublin area. While the company publicises that offer fairly well, I do not think enough people are aware of the excellent value that is available. If one buys an unlimited bus travel ticket and gets tax relief on it, the actual cost of it can be as little as €390 per annum, which is just over €30 per month. Therefore, one can travel anywhere by bus for just €1 a day. Dublin Bus has put in place a full range of integrated daily, weekly and monthly bus-rail and bus-Luas tickets. Anyone who wants to travel on the No. 14 bus from Ballinteer, which feeds to a Luas stop, can buy a bus-Luas ticket to give him or her the freedom to change to the Luas network.
Whenever I make a presentation about the operations of Dublin Bus, I always speak about safety. It is important to mention that Dublin Bus is committed at all times to increasing standards of safety and safety training and developing safety management systems, safety plans and safety priority measures. Dublin Bus has won awards for its approach to equal status, equality and cultural diversity, which it sees as important. In 2005, Dublin Bus won an award as the best company to work for. All its front-line employees participate in specialised customer-focused training and safety training every year. The company sees such training as very important.
I will refer to Dublin Bus's contract with the Government and the Department. Under the terms of its memorandum of understanding with the Department of Transport, the company's performance is measured and reviewed on a regular basis. Dublin Bus has a number of quality initiatives, but I will not go through them. As we are talking so much about quality bus corridors, I have put on the final slide some quotes from the conclusions of the Indecon report on the performance of such corridors, which was published a couple of years ago. I apologise for taking up so much time.
I thank Mr. Meagher for his presentation. It is great that this bus review has been done with the Minister. I hope Dublin Bus's request for additional buses will be met with speed. Despite the differences I have had with Dublin Bus on various topics, I have always maintained that buses are crucial as forms of transport in the short term while the Transport 21 programme is being implemented, and in the long term. I would like to raise a number of issues.
I would be interested to hear some details of Dublin Bus's focus if it is successful in getting new buses. Where would the company like to deploy the buses? I am a little disappointed that its plans seem to concentrate almost exclusively on high capacity routes. I accept that Mr. Meagher said it was not an exclusive focus. The heavy emphasis on routes where quality bus corridors are available, for example, suggests that the company is taking an easy option. It plans to use new orbital roads and to run non-stop services. I can understand why Dublin Bus is doing that. It is obviously the most beneficial approach from its point of view in terms of maximising revenue and passenger numbers and providing a good service. I hope this approach will not be pursued to the exclusion of other services. While it has been argued that the major issues are lack of capacity and congestion, these are related issues in that the former, which has been a problem for Dublin Bus during years in which the population has exploded, leads to the latter. When one has congestion one does not want to provide new buses to solve the problem.
While I accept that one gets more bang for a buck when one provides buses on routes with quality bus corridors, congestion needs to be solved in many areas around Dublin which do not have quality bus corridors. Not every area is served by a train or Luas line and many are completely dependent on Dublin Bus providing a transport service. The company has the advantage that it is flexible and can penetrate areas not accessed by train. Despite this and perhaps due to his background, Mr. Meagher appears to view buses in much the same way as one would view a train, in other words, they, too, travel quickly along fixed lines when in fact bus and train services have different roles.
I am delighted to learn that buses will travel from St. Vincent's Hospital to Dublin City University. St. Vincent's Hospital, which is the catchment hospital for the area I represent, is not served by a single bus route. Elderly people from all over my constituency ask me if a bus to the clinic is available in the early mornings. Dublin Bus must meet its public service obligation to provide services.
I hope the current review will result in Dublin Bus receiving approval for the buses it seeks to purchase. I am also optimistic that the changes required will be introduced. I hope the company will not overlook the types of services I have mentioned. It has indicated a willingness to service new residential areas and the local authorities continue to submit requests for additional services. Blanchardstown, for example, was mentioned but, again, the service is provided on the quality bus corridor, which is great. However, Dublin Bus pays lip service to providing buses to other newer areas such as Sandyford which is not served by a QBC.
The Luas service will link to Sandyford.
It will be a long time before the link is complete. The congestion in areas such as Sandyford is unbelievable. People would be willing to drive to a Luas stop but Dublin Bus will not provide feeder services. While I am aware the company does not have a sufficient number of buses to provide such services, I hope they will be provided once additional buses are secured. It was noted that 3,000 new houses will be built in the Sandyford area. With one planning application seeking approval to build 2,000 new homes, it is clear Dublin Bus's service provision is insufficient. I have focused on Sandyford because I know the area well but the same argument applies to dozens of new areas around the city.
The alignment and construction of the new rail facilities for the metro or Luas will have a major impact on traffic generally, including buses. Dublin Bus has issued several statements emphasising the importance to the company of the Westmoreland Street-O'Connell Bridge axis and I accept the case it makes given that every day hundreds of thousands of people must pass through this area by bus. However, not everybody would need to use this route if additional bridges were available over the River Liffey. Why is Dublin Bus not jumping up and down about the failure to build a bridge at Macken Street? I have been doing so for a year and ask the company to do likewise. Several new bridges over the River Liffey are needed but a bridge at Macken Street has supposedly been imminent for ten years. It would provide an alternative route between the northside and southside for those who must use cars and the Luas. It is daft that everyone must compete for access on the narrow space of road at O'Connell Bridge, particularly as the Luas and Dublin Bus both provide a public service. They should not be at loggerheads but fighting together to secure additional capacity and ensure both companies are in a position to provide a service.
The findings of the review of bus services have been submitted to Government. Over the many months that I raised the review with the Minister, he repeatedly indicated he would not approve the purchase of new buses for Dublin Bus until he had resolved the issues surrounding the introduction of competition. Later, he indicated he did not propose to resolve the matter until the review was complete. Now that it is complete, I have asked him when he will approve the purchase of new buses for Dublin Bus only to be told that this question must be reviewed in the context of the future regulation of buses in Dublin and the new structure for the Dublin Transportation Office, from which he has received a report. This appears to be a chicken and egg scenario with the various issues bound up together in such a way as to prevent a decision being made. Has Dublin Bus received any indication that a decision on the purchase of 400 new buses is pending? I note it expects to have 170 further buses on QBCs by 2008. As far as I can determine, however, all newly acquired buses will be allocated to routes with quality bus corridors but I see no indication that 170 new buses will be available to the company by 2008. What is the delivery period for buses once an order has been placed? If a company ordered 200 new buses tomorrow, how long would it take before they were on the streets?
Senator Norris complained about private bus companies parking their buses on the streets and asked whether a solution to the problem was available. Dublin Bus is clearly not anxious to share its bus stations with private bus operators. Would it at least consider sharing bus stops with private operators? It seems daft that this cannot be done and street furniture must be erected at intervals of 50 yards in the city to allow private bus operators use one set of bus stops and Dublin Bus vehicles another set.
Perhaps Deputy Mitchell would share her clinic with Deputy Brennan.
Deputy Brennan is welcome at my clinic.
Perhaps Deputy Mitchell will share her time for questions with Deputy Shortall.
Dublin Bus does not own bus stops. Street furniture is public property. It would be daft if AdSell announced its intention to erect bus stops for Aircoach or any other bus operators. It does not make sense to litter the streets with a variety of bus stops. If a regulator is in place I presume someone will knock heads together because it is a daft rule. I would go further and argue that Dublin Bus should share its stations and garages with private operators.
I welcome the Dublin Bus delegation to the meeting, although it is a pity attendance is so poor. Perhaps it is due to the long delay in bringing in the delegation. It is also a shame that free marketeers such as Senator Morrissey and Members from other parties were not present to listen to the presentation. The first table provided by the company would be of particular interest to a number of politicians who argue that the panacea for congestion is to allow private operators into the bus market. The table showing the level of subsidy to bus companies in major European cities is highly informative, as it shows that Dublin is at the bottom of a table of 16 major cities enjoying a state subsidy of 26% compared with 58%, 62%, 67% and 78% for Paris, Athens, Brussels and Luxembourg, respectively. These figures show how far Ireland must travel in this respect and how well Dublin Bus has done given the inadequate funding provided to it. If anyone believes that opening up routes to private operators will magically improve the current position they are codding themselves and, in many cases, playing to the gallery.
Mr. Meagher indicated that the two major challenges facing Dublin Bus are capacity and congestion. We all hope the Minister will agree to the application for 200 additional buses the company has submitted. Given that capacity is such a major problem, has Dublin Bus attempted to measure its scale? During peak morning and evening hours one sees a significant number of people being turned away from buses on Westmoreland Street due to insufficient capacity. The official policy espoused by the Government and all parties is to encourage people to switch from private cars to public transport. They will never do so until there is sufficient capacity in the public transport system.
Given that it was promised to provide approximately 390 buses by the end of this year under the national development plan, it is ridiculous that Dublin Bus did not get a single additional bus from 2001 to date. Five critical years were lost in which the Government did not fund any new buses and it still owes Dublin Bus approximately 180 buses. Is the company now leaving this aside and saying it wants 200 for this plan, or is it still hopeful the Government will honour its commitment to give 180, as promised under the national development plan, although it has failed to do so over the past five years? If the Minister were to say to Dublin Bus tomorrow that it could have the 200 additional buses, how soon could they be brought into service?
On the question of capacity, it is very disappointing to see the operating speeds Dublin Bus has listed today. The average speed of 13 km/h compares badly with those in other European capitals, which are reaching 18 km/h and 20 km/h. Unfortunately our average speeds are decreasing. I accept that this is not the fault of Dublin Bus but that it results from the congestion problem in the city. Is there not a great structural problem in terms of making decisions on bus priority and obtaining results? Some of the QBCs stretch through three different local authority areas and the Garda and other interests are involved. Is there not an urgent need for some kind of mechanism to knock heads together to achieve the desired level of co-ordination?
In theory, we have nine QBCs but the only one that was completed, launched properly and furnished with all the required additional services was the one in Stillorgan. There are a number of QBCs in my constituency but they are still subject to major pinch-points. Do we not need a Dublin transport authority to make what is desired a reality?
If one considers the speeds the current QBCs are delivering, one will realise they are quite disappointing. The journey times are not all that much better than those of cars. Is Dublin Bus hopeful that these blockages will be cut through in the foreseeable future? Does it expect that a new authority will speed up the process? On the north side of Dublin, the vast majority of people depend on buses for public transport. Many of these services use Parnell Square, Granby Row and Lower Dorset Street. I recently carried out a survey during evening peak hours and found that it took buses an average of 22 minutes to travel just a couple of hundred metres from Parnell Square to Lower Dorset Street. Some of the buses were taking from 31 to 32 minutes to do so. Why can we not deal with the pinch-point areas? Which authority is dragging its heels on the matter?
What is likely to happen to bus journey times and congestion generally if the Government goes ahead with the proposal to join the two Luas lines in the city centre, notwithstanding that this should have been done originally using an underground connection? What are the implications of the present proposal to link the lines on the surface? Is Dublin Bus concerned about the impact of the linkage on bus services in the city centre, both during the construction period and thereafter? Given that the two lines will eventually be linked through the proposed metro, it does not make much sense to link them as proposed at this point as it would have a very negative impact on bus services.
What is the delegates' view on the proposal that buses should use the Phoenix Park to serve west Dublin given that it offers potential for a high-quality bus corridor with little or no congestion? What is the OPW's view on this?
Mr. Meagher
On Deputy Olivia Mitchell's point that we are concentrating exclusively on QBCs, there is certainly a focus thereon because we recognise the need to beat congestion by having continuous priority. Once this is achieved, we call a route a QBC. We regard QBCs as serving a much higher proportion of our customers. I mentioned that we would see another 37 million customers having access to QBCs.
We have 14 corridors into the central area. I accept Deputy Shortall's point that some leave a lot to be desired in terms of priority and that there are many pinch-points, with which we want to deal. There are routes on which customers still do not have access to QBCs but we are certainly not forgetting them. We must remember all customers. The main focus is on developing QBCs to try to beat the congestion, which is becoming worse all the time. The best formula is to provide a high-frequency service along the trunk corridor, spreading out into developing areas.
We are pushing the Macken Street Bridge proposal very strongly. It would remove traffic from the central area, which we are very keen to see happen.
What progress is being made?
Mr. Meagher
I am told it is moving along.
I have been told that for two years.
Mr. Meagher
I am told it is definitely moving along.
We have made the application for the 200 buses. We are starting from our present position and looking for a total of 425 buses over the next five years. We are seeking 200 over the next two years. If we get approval for them, we could certainly have 100 delivered by January of next year. We would place an order for another 100 to be delivered later next year. This would be the general timescale.
The Minister has a number of issues to deal with, including the DTA paper and regulation, into which we have had considerable input. The Minister said he intends to deal with these issues very soon and we are optimistic that a decision will be made shortly. We are optimistic that there will be a favourable decision on providing Dublin Bus with additional buses. It is appreciated very much that they are badly needed.
On the Luas line BX, I mentioned the importance of the central area, particularly the corridor from St. Stephen's Green down Dawson Street and Nassau Street, around the front of Trinity College and up O'Connell Street. We have 58 million customers boarding and alighting on this corridor. We are having many discussions to work through the matter with the RPA. It put forward five options and we made it clear that we prefer option B. We have discussed it with the agency and accept there will be some disruption. We will continue to discuss the matter with the agency.
With the implementation of other rail-based measures, there will be a need for enhanced bus services in certain areas and for close co-ordination with the RPA on Luas, metro and other rail developments. We will play our full role in that process. We accept the need for the implementation of the various rail-based modes but it is important that disruption to customers during construction stage and afterwards is minimised. We will continue to stress the points that achieve those objectives.
Once the DTA is in place, it will help to develop priority measures across the city. We cannot wait, however, and we have had meetings with local authorities and the chairman of the DTO, Mr. Willie Soffe, who has been active and helpful in this area. We have submitted a list of priorities that must be implemented this year, next year and the year after. We have held detailed discussions with the quality bus network, QBN, project office and are broadly in agreement with it. We are reaching a stage where there will be an agreed list of priorities we want to implement and then we can all put our shoulders to the wheel so that everything is put in place.
Acquiring buses is just part of the solution. There are many routes where, even without extra buses, the development and implementation of priorities would be of significant benefit. Until the DTA is in place, we must all knuckle down and work together and the chairman of the DTO is aware of that. We appreciate the strong central role he is taking.
The local authorities are also supportive of the implementation of priority measures; we are pushing an open door in talking to them. We are working jointly with Fingal County Council in looking at Blanchardstown so we do not come up with ideas that are off the wall. We must involve everyone and work from the start with them. We are working very closely with the QBN office and will continue to push for our priorities. We should mark the date the port tunnel opens with additional priorities in the central area. We have identified those and we want them to happen. It would send out a good signal if that were to happen.
On the issue of parking buses in the streets, mention was made of the private operators. We do not have bus stations, we have bus garages, but we must park buses in the streets in the city centre. It is not helpful but we have no other option. One of the measures that could help is to move termini to the far side of the central area, as has happened with the numbers 7 and 46A. The MVA review recommended the linking of more of the shorter routes with cross city routes. That can be done and removes the terminal points from the central area. It makes sense to do that but only in circumstances where there is free movement through the central area.
Bus stops are an issue. We depend on the Garda for permission for their location. It has the decision-making power because there are safety issues involved. In the central area, there are often many different buses stopping and it causes difficulties. We would like more of our own buses to stop at certain bus stops that are spread out. Flexibility is not great but it will be addressed in the next couple of years with the regulatory improvements.
Phoenix Park routes were discussed a couple of years ago but the OPW is not in favour of them. We are concentrating on the populated area through the Blanchardstown corridor. As well as prioritising that, we need radical measures in the Prussia Street and central areas, along the quays in particular. It will always be on the menu and in the event of express services being introduced, it could be considered.
Would the park be used if the OPW agreed?
Mr. Meagher
Yes.
It was mentioned that 100 buses per annum are needed. Will all of those buses have disabled access? Will the mistake others have made be avoided?
Mr. Meagher
All of the buses we have bought since 2001 have full disabled access, accounting for around 60% of the fleet. It is easier with city buses than with coaches and these work well and have been well accepted. Our target is to have a completely wheelchair accessible fleet by 2011.
I welcome Mr. Meagher and Mr. Doherty and wish Mr. Meagher well in his new role. It is fair to congratulate Dublin Bus on the major advances it has made in recent years. Someone mentioned the low attendance today but it is an indication that the vast majority of politicians in the city are happy with the job Dublin Bus is doing. I am delighted to see that the Green Party has no difficulties at all with the bus system in Dublin. Equally, the presence of three representatives from Dublin North indicates——
There are only two representatives from Dublin North.
Two and an aspiring representative.
We are all familiar with QBCs but what is bus priority, particularly along the quays? Fluid bus flow through the city centre makes sense.
Deputy Olivia Mitchell referred to St. Vincent's Hospital and the equivalent in my area would be Beaumont Hospital. There are parts of my constituency where people need four buses to reach the hospital. I accept the issues of critical mass and commercial viability but there is a public service obligation. I recently spoke to the chief executive of Beaumont Hospital on this issue and he said this difficulty was something we must live with. In this day and age, however, people living on bus routes should not need to take four buses to reach the local hospital. I would like to hear the witnesses' opinions of the public service obligation versus commercial viability and critical mass. On a similar theme concerning critical mass and public service, I note from the maps provided that the routes only go a certain distance. I am disappointed that half of the Dublin North constituency, although covered by Dublin Bus, seems to have fallen off the radar. I hope this is not the case.
The DART will have to be extended to there.
We will need to get the workers there to construct the DART line.
North County Dublin does not end at Swords. There are significant difficulties in the provision of bus services to the area. Everyone agrees the major alteration to the general strategy several years ago has not worked. The area does not have a quality bus corridor and it does not feature on the orbital plan. I accept the difference and the necessity for the balance between public service and critical mass. The particular difficulties we share in the Dublin North constituency are replicated in Enniskerry on the south side.
Is it worth progressing with the Phoenix Park proposal or is it dead in the water? Fingal County Council, through the recommendation of its expensive consultants, has it on its transport plan. However, with the development of the area and the existing poor bus lane on the Navan Road, there is very little Dublin Bus will be able to do. The roadspace simply does not exist. Even if the roadspace is provided for, it will make little difference.
People do not like using the service in the evening because of the delays along the quays and the slow trek through Manor Street. Owing to congestion and the proximity of Luas, young commuters tend not to use the Phoenix Park bus services even though 16 bus services go through it every hour. One would have to be a tourist from San Francisco to enjoy the bus ride. A working young person, however, who cannot afford a private car is forced to use the service on a poor quality bus corridor.
Regarding the fare box ratio, what is the load factor? Out of the 1,082 buses, what is the seat capacity and passenger numbers? Has Dublin Bus achieved the maximum potential? I asked the previous speakers from the chambers of commerce what is the answer given when congestion figures are given to departmental officials? Although Dublin Bus argues for more buses, we must consider the congestion problems. Until these are eliminated, we are going nowhere.
They said that already.
What has happened in the past two years that has not happened previously to eliminate the obstacles on the QBCs? Are there local arrangements where parts of some QBCs are not policed? Does the timing provided extend the full length of the QBC from terminus to terminus?
I compliment Mr. Meagher and Mr. Doherty on their professional presentation. If anyone is objective and open-minded on the direction of public transport, this is a fair and positive report. I recall in the 1980s when the maintenance of the bus fleet was not good and its age profile was very high. It may be a coincidence but I recently came across four buses at different locations which were broken down. What is the current fleet's age profile and are there problems in that regard?
Why has the problem with the QBC around the Cat and Cage pub not been dealt with? The Taoiseach may have an issue with taking part of the Cat and Cage to resolve the issue.
The cat is left out of the cage.
On the far side of the road, the walls could be demolished. What can be done to resolve the problems in this area?
How successful are the city tours and the airport routes? Has Dublin Bus submitted any proposals to the Department for new routes? How long does it take for a route application to be processed? How has security benefited through the introduction of closed circuit television on buses? Are there still problems with security? When one considers the development taking place in Swords, how will its bus services be linked? A meeting with local politicians would be beneficial in this regard. I have already been in contact with Mr. Doherty concerning damage to the bus stop on the Main Street in Swords which is used predominantly by senior citizens. A new vandal-proof bus waiting area needs to be provided.
Mr. Meagher
Bus priorities are not just about painting white lines on the roads. Dublin Bus is arguing for a bus gate at Blanchardstown where there are some difficulties. This would be located at the end of a cul de sac. We are having some difficulty getting it but if we did, operating the bus through there would make a great difference. There are two in the city, one of which is in Blanchardstown. Elimination of right and left turns and priority at traffic lights, etc. would all help. There is a right turn off O'Connell Bridge onto the quays, which we would like to have eliminated when Macken Street Bridge is completed if not before that. This would considerably reduce the green time for buses going south. There is a range of priorities one can get.
If this is an internationally accepted concept in respect of the free flow of public transport, what is the difficulty in introducing it here?
Mr. Meagher
A certain amount has been introduced and we need a big push to put more into place. Congestion has reached a stage where we can demonstrate that it is becoming more and more difficult to operate our buses in some suburban areas, for example, Swords, Blanchardstown and the central area. We need radical measures to deal with this. We have come up with several measures and are working through the process of getting buy-in on those to get them in place.
Is this buy-in from local authorities or from the Garda Síochána?
Mr. Meagher
From local authorities primarily. We also need agreement on what the measures would be. Prussia Street is a good example because there is no space so it requires imaginative traffic management measures, such as one-way systems, contraflow lanes and so on. We will put a big push on those suggestions. We can highlight the benefit that would result. In regard to Blanchardstown, if we do these things we can bring the end-to-end journey of 90 to 100 minutes, and growing, down to a reliable 75 minutes. The journey times we quoted were end to end, except for one which was along a sector where there was a quality bus corridor at certain times.
We have achieved reliable times on the Stillorgan corridor. There was some pain at the start but it settled down. The space probably made it easier but people know if they board the bus in Stillorgan, they can rely on reaching St. Stephen's Green within a certain period. They do not know about O'Connell Street because we do not have the free flow through the centre. That is the next part. The most difficult section is from Parnell Square to St. Stephen's Green and we do not want anything to happen that would worsen it. We need improvements in that area. We need all those developments and buy-in and we are pushing strongly to achieve that.
I take Senator Morrissey's point about Phoenix Park. We should be more proactive about putting it on the agenda as part of the potential solution. In terms of serving hospitals, such as Beaumont, our orbital routes are infrequent. They do not serve large numbers. As the population grows in those centres, we would give greater priority to reliability, increased frequency and variation in routes which would improve that situation. That is important.
Mr. Doherty might speak about the routes north of Swords.
Mr. Doherty
In regard to Beaumont and the orbital routes, the amalgamation of the 102 and the 230 has been discussed for some time and we are going ahead with that. That will improve the orbital linkage between Swords, the DART in Malahide and the airport. We are considering putting in a stronger orbital route across the north side of the city to serve major destinations such as DCU and Beaumont Hospital but they are off the axis of the main radial routes. The connection is to a relatively low frequency route. More priority in the orbitals and more buses available will provide a better service. One will come off a frequent route to another frequent route.
As part of the quality bus network programme there is a proposal to upgrade the Swords quality bus corridor, QBC, and bring it up to standard. The programme also proposes to deal with problems such as the Cat and Cage pub and other blockages along the route to reinstate some of the bus priority that was removed to facilitate construction of the port tunnel and to extend it north of Swords. This is part of the Transport 21 plan to double the QBC network over the next three years.
Mr. Meagher
In response to Deputy Seán Ryan, city tours are very popular. This year has been difficult because of the works in O'Connell Street, which is an important base, but we expect those to be completed soon. The airport service is a good commercial service and is going well.
The Department looks fairly at proposals for new routes and comes back as quickly as it can. We accept that it has a job to do. It comes back to us regularly when we want to make changes and is proactive. It effectively and efficiently assessed the business case for our 200 new routes.
Closed circuit television is a major step forward in providing security on buses. The quality of the picture is excellent so if incidents arise, we can see precisely what happened. We work closely with the Garda which finds this helpful too. There have been several incidents in which seats on the tops of buses have been set on fire and the CCTV has shown what happened and helped to identify culprits. The number of assaults on drivers has reduced considerably.
As we implement the network plan for the network review of structural routes and development of local routes, we will undertake a local consultation process. That is a key part of the plan — to get buy-in, agreement and feedback.
I also asked about the maintenance and quality of the buses and the bus stops.
Is that of future interest to the Deputy?
Mr. Meagher
The average age of our fleet is approximately six years. We depreciate the buses over 12 years. The fleet is in age. Forty buses are due for replacement and we will replace another 100 in the coming year or so. Reliability figures are good. There has been no deterioration in general. There is wide variation in performance between new and old buses. The mileage between failures reduces considerably in older buses and it is important to keep them in age. The availability and reliability is far better than in the past. We all remember the bad old days but we do not intend to return to them.
I asked about load factors and efficiency.
Mr. Meagher
We have some very busy corridors with 100% load factors at peak times. There are other routes that exist for social and community reasons which are not heavily used but provide an important service to the communities they serve and which we must maintain. They are not necessarily very frequent but they are in place.
Surely there must be some benchmark from year to year as the company considers the number of passengers it carries and the number of buses in place. Is there an internal benchmark on efficiency with regard to capacity and so on?
Mr. Meagher
We examine trends in passenger numbers, the number of buses and so on. We have benchmarks in terms of the frequencies we provide for the given number of passengers we carry on any given day. We would look at altering frequency and trying to adjust routes. We did that earlier this year on the numbers 42 and 43 bus routes, adjusting some buses from one particular route onto another and into a developing area. We continually do that. For example, people would be familiar with what we have done on routes operating along the Luas lines. We have reduced the level of service along those routes, and some buses being deployed on the number 4 route are among those freed up. We plan to introduce a new service in a developing area of Tallaght in the new future. We have just completed the process with the Department, and buses coming off services parallel to the Luas line, where numbers have reduced, will be used for the new service.
There is a continuing process of assessment. We are mindful of the need to continue the basic job of serving communities.
Mr. Doherty
We are trying not to abandon any communities.
Mr. Meagher
I accept that some numbers can be very low and that there comes a time when one asks who is using a particular bus service.
On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. Meagher and Mr. Doherty for their presentation and their frank discussion with the members. They have made so much progress that they have got away lightly, particularly when one considers what would have happened to them had they come before us five years ago. We all see an improved operation by Dublin Bus and the witnesses, along with management and staff, are to be congratulated for the service the company provides.
The joint committee adjourned at 5.05 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 18 May 2006.